A vegan's worst nightmare.

A vegan's worst nightmare.

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  1. 12 months ago
    Anonymous

    Finland? Yeah, they put reindeer in everything.

    • 12 months ago
      Anonymous

      One of my life goals is to visit Finland to watch wrc.

      • 12 months ago
        Anonymous

        Amazing country. Got shitfaced on Midsummer's Eve there at a bonfire with my cousin who ended up giving me a great blowjob (it's legal there).
        Going back in June.

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          Uhhh I just wanted to talk about cars

          • 12 months ago
            Anonymous

            Oh. Well, I did see a Patria Pasi XA-185 when I was there. It was remarkably quiet for an APC.

            • 12 months ago
              Anonymous

              Of course finnish mongols are proud to have party prostitute as a president

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                Not anymore

            • 12 months ago
              Anonymous
            • 12 months ago
              Anonymous

              She lost, but she still owes me sex.

            • 12 months ago
              Anonymous

              >wef drone: female trudeau model

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          Mitä helvettiä

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          Wtf are you talking about?

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          Wtf is incest that common in finland

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          >with my cousin
          mitä serkumpaa, sitä herkumpaa?

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          I don't think having any kind of sexual intercourse with a cousin is illegal, bro.
          Wait,...you're Murrican, right?

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          >my cousin who ended up giving me a great blowjob (it's legal there).
          cute. got any pics of him?

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          HAHAHA
          you are WEAK and PATHETIC. real men dont get drunk no matter how much they drink

      • 12 months ago
        SwedishBrorsan

        finland isnt that good, i would recommend sweden during valborg, midsommar or the actual "julskyltning" day
        or visiting norway bergen if you want a proper scandi experience.

        the danes are kinda homosexual tbh and they sound like germans making it even worse but generally its better living in denmark than sweden
        and sweden is also very deep into the sauna culture but isnt as common as in finland since theyll have saunas even in rental apartments

      • 12 months ago
        Anonymous

        me too bro. I wanna almost get hit by a car

    • 12 months ago
      Anonymous

      Binland :DDDDD

  2. 12 months ago
    Mihai

    >moron thinks his aNcEsToRs ate meat everyday and didnt preserve shit like beans in a barrel

    also we live in modern times, i can call you a moron across the atlantic in 0.1 miliseconds

    • 12 months ago
      Anonymous

      >sperging into the void
      We preserved quite a lot of meat as well

    • 12 months ago
      Anonymous

      beans arent native to europe

      • 12 months ago
        Mihai

        >implying beans grow in the far north
        >implying humans have had complex storage systems with barrels for more than 8000 years
        >implying ancient beans had any nutrition
        >implying that even if the kinds of edible beans you eat today could have been found in the far north, that there would have been enough time in the short period of the year where it's no lt freezing to grow enough of them to last you the rest of the year
        Lmaoing at your life. You're so fricking dumb lmao

        stay mad carnitroony, im not eating the disgusting shit y'all put in your mouth puss guzzlers

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          >namegay moron
          >say something extremely stupid
          >have no counterargument when called out
          smartest least braindamaged vegan

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          >literally eat fermented shit off the ground
          You are INDIAN. You are a SHIT EATING little GOBLIN. Know your place. Now KNEEL.

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          jerking off to the thought of your mother being beaten to death with a hammer

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          Utterly BTFO

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          lol all it took was some guy saying beans in Finland and this sperg is still raging hours later

          https://i.imgur.com/OfVXJQ2.jpg

          Innuits have some of the largest brains

          No they are not and their IQ is low too

          https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Visual-Memory-in-Village-Eskimo-and-Urban-Caucasian-Kleinfeld/fbfba538f82e1fb4ffb77ad6197a9cf408aee3f9
          >Village Eskimo children demonstrated significantly higher levels of visual memory. Visual memory was also found to increase significantly with age.
          >A follow-up questionnaire study indicated that about 65% of teachers in Eskimo villages noted the unusually high ability of Eskimo students in recalling visual detail or mentioned their high performance in tasks depending partly upon this ability.
          They have bigger and more powerful brains.

          • 12 months ago
            Anonymous

            > visual memory
            So literally nothing, now try to look for the IQ of eskimos, they are dumb as frick lmao

      • 12 months ago
        Anonymous

        >beans arent native to europe
        Greeks literally lived off of beans and Pythagoras literally got himself killed because he refused to enter a beanfield (which he considered unclean) to escape his suitors.

        https://i.imgur.com/ZjQCdpj.jpg

        [...]
        [...]
        [...]
        https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Visual-Memory-in-Village-Eskimo-and-Urban-Caucasian-Kleinfeld/fbfba538f82e1fb4ffb77ad6197a9cf408aee3f9
        >Village Eskimo children demonstrated significantly higher levels of visual memory. Visual memory was also found to increase significantly with age.
        >A follow-up questionnaire study indicated that about 65% of teachers in Eskimo villages noted the unusually high ability of Eskimo students in recalling visual detail or mentioned their high performance in tasks depending partly upon this ability.
        They have bigger and more powerful brains.

        Researchers recently discovered a gene adaption unique to Eskimos that allow them to convert fat to glucose, actually skipping the entire process of ketosis, which they cannot enter.

        And even then, they ate tons of berries and mixed it into dried edibles with meat like in pemmican, carbs comprising around 30% of their diet in actuality.

        Also, before you bring up
        >muh mongols
        Mongols lived off of white rice and milk, since they are the most easy to pack and transport. Mongols didn't routinely eat meat because they relied on their livestock for milk. Meat was consumed only when the animals died naturally or doing a hunt.

        Milk is filled with carbs btw. Literally no tribe has ever subsisted on a keto diet in history and the few advocates of long-term keto diets always die at a laughably pathetic age averaging in the 50s.

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          They ate lentils, chickpeas and fava beans you moronic c**t
          All beans are legumes but not all legumes are beans

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          >he refused to enter a beanfield
          Based. Bet he was a carnivore and had ketfuled mathskills

          • 12 months ago
            Anonymous

            He was history's first known raw vegan.

          • 12 months ago
            Anonymous

            He was a massive fasting proponent, wouldn't let students join if they didn't, so he was ketone fuelled

            • 12 months ago
              Anonymous

              I will do a fast in his honor

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          >carbs comprising around 30% of their diet in actuality
          You really think there are enough berries growing in greenland to make up for 30% of the caloric needs of its population? Dude wtf? Planteaters are cultists. They just invent lies to justify their carb addiction. No use talking with them. Its like a feminist or a christgay. Pls leave this board and comment your wisdom on vegan instagramcommentssections and facebook cookinggroups for catladys
          Or maybe just suffer the withdrawal for once and come back when your brain is healed. Bet you cant make it? Just eat meat? Boby needs hes sugar) you are a homosexual

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Literally no tribe has ever subsisted on a keto diet in history
          Google the masai. Men there eat only meat and drink only milk. Yes they are huge!. No, they have no heart attacks, gay

          • 12 months ago
            Anonymous

            lol the Maasai eat a shitton of honey. They love it and will get thousands of calories from it weekly.

    • 12 months ago
      Anonymous

      >implying beans grow in the far north
      >implying humans have had complex storage systems with barrels for more than 8000 years
      >implying ancient beans had any nutrition
      >implying that even if the kinds of edible beans you eat today could have been found in the far north, that there would have been enough time in the short period of the year where it's no lt freezing to grow enough of them to last you the rest of the year
      Lmaoing at your life. You're so fricking dumb lmao

      • 12 months ago
        Anonymous

        guy makes an offhand comment about storing food using beans as an example and you post a fricking manifesto about it

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          It just proves how utterly uneducated you are. To look at the OP pic and even think for a second that beans could have been there historically. It's like if I posted an ancient Japanese town drawing and somebody commented that they could have been storing corn in barrels.

          • 12 months ago
            Anonymous

            nobody cares you spastic lunatic.
            The point he was making is that they probably stored some kind of grains over the winter but you want to make it your life's crusade to let the world know there were no beans in finland

            • 12 months ago
              Anonymous

              >probably
              Lol
              And did you not read my post? Humans didn't start storing grain until very recently. Humans only figured out how to cultivate grain in large enough amounts to sustain a populace even more recently. To do that in a place that's cold as shit almost year round is not something people did 8000+ years ago. AKA the majority of humans' existence.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                the ancient Eygptians, Mayans, Native Americans etc all figured out how to store grain thousands of years ago but EuroBlack folk didnt?
                All you have to do to store grain is keep it dry and away from bugs and mice.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                10k+ years ago nobody did that, especially not in places where it's snowy for a large part of the year. And yet, these people from the north have always historically been bigger and stronger than everywhere else.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >THEY DID 8000 YEARS AGO NOT 10000
                he's still carrying on about it

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                And when do you think humans evolved, dumbshit?

                greenhouse exists you can grow all winter long https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD_3_gsgsnk

                Oh yeah humans made glass houses for the last million years to get their grainies! There's archaeological evidence dated 500,000 years ago of mysterious greenhouses for village level mass subsistence on grain in north Europe!

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                lol all it took was some guy saying beans in Finland and this sperg is still raging hours later

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                You've been so warped by this thread that you're still sitting on it waiting for new replies to cry about. Kneel.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >cry about it
                Why does everyone post this phrase every time they got mocked here lately?

                >"lol check out this dumb homosexual haha"
                >C-C-CRY ABOUT IT!!!!!!!

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                I warped you. Kneel.

                Why do people assume that natural = healthy? It's literally a logical fallacy, an appeal to nature. Why the frick are people STILL so moronic, can someone explain to me? Why don't they look at the different health outcomes that certain diets produce (cancer, atherosclerosis, all-cause mortality, etc.)?

                Try reading the thread. Northern peoples have always been the biggest and strongest historically, because their diet mainly consisted of meat as plants can't grow most of the year there. If you want to be a sickly little vegan manlet go live in mesoamerica and eat beans and rice all day.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                who cares what they ate in the past, look at modern studies regarding health outcomes/strength gains/etc. are you sure it's because of some property that meat has, and that you wouldn't get roughly the same strength/body composition outcomes if you ate the same calories/protein on a plantbased diet? what's your evidence for that? to understand what you're saying more clearly, would this argument roughly represent what you are claiming?:

                1. If group A gets nutrition from animal sources, Then group A will be bigger/stronger than group B who get their nutrition from plant sources*
                2. group A gets nutrition from animal sources
                3. Therefore, group A will be bigger/stronger than group B who get their nutrition from plant sources*
                *(all other things considered equal, macro/micro nutrient content, workout regime, etc.)

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >and that you wouldn't get roughly the same strength/body composition outcomes if you ate the same calories/protein on a plantbased diet?
                Wrong protein rations. Bad absorption. Wrong form of minerals and vitamins. Antinutrients. PHYTOESTROGEN

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                Lectins are the main one that frick me up, never had a problem with the other two

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Northern peoples have always been the biggest and strongest historically, because their diet mainly consisted of meat as plants can't grow most of the year there.
                Then why are the Innuit so short if "meat = big and strong"

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                Innuits have some of the largest brains

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                No they are not and their IQ is low too

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                brain size doesn't determine intelligence

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                No, but it does accommodate for more gyri and sulci which is a proven sign of higher intelligence. The 5-head Finns, Norwegians, and Estonians are the biggest brains in Europe and have significantly higher IQs than the smooth brains in the rest of Europe (except for

                https://i.imgur.com/c6tuVdd.jpg

                Amazing country. Got shitfaced on Midsummer's Eve there at a bonfire with my cousin who ended up giving me a great blowjob (it's legal there).
                Going back in June.

                who clearly has Swedish DNA).

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                What do you think brain is for? Of course mote of is better but like a computer there’s many components to it, the reason Neanderthals had large brains was due to their superior senses such as vision and hearing. But our brains did grow from the homosexual Erectus stage to now, and we got smarter as a result.
                In fact brain size still correlated with intelligence if you’re not a moron and don’t measure it as a simple direct correlation. East Asians have the largest brains in humans and are generally highest IQ, blacks have the smallest brains and are generally lowest IQ.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                Shut up you.. AUSTRALOPHITECUS

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                But why are they so short?

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >now I get why people acted weird in Vancouver when visiting
                For frick's sake, stop posting shit.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >If you want to be a sickly little vegan manlet go live in mesoamerica and eat beans and rice all day.
                If I recall the Aztecs of Mesoamerica practiced human sacrifice, murdering dozens in each of their temples every single day. Around 300k people a year.

                Meanwhile the meat eating populations of Europe are the most servile and cucked populations in all of recorded history.

                Maybe, just maybe, you being a little b***h has nothing to do with eating plants, but your own personal faults you refuse to correct, homosexual.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >f I recall the Aztecs of Mesoamerica practiced human sacrifice, murdering dozens in each of their temples every single day. Around 300k people a year.

                Kek wtf is your point ?

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                He wants to show us he believes and learned everything his teachers and news anchors told him. Or he fricks a fat goblina, who knows?

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                Are you not doing the same?

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                Maybe it wasnt a question of could but want to. Maybe they simply werent homosexual planteaters like your anorexic looking boss/mama/gf

      • 12 months ago
        Anonymous

        >implying ancient beans had any nutrition
        They almost certainly had much more than modern farmed varieties. Naturally grown stuff is always more nutritious than farmed. This is true for everything from beans to salmon.

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          >This is true for everything
          Pic related is naturally growing broccoli aka mustard
          And now go on your knees! Its time to carpetmunch mother nature

      • 12 months ago
        Anonymous

        >muh meat made humans giga intelligent
        >btw humans couldnt figure out how to invent fricking barrels for 8000 years

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          More like there was no need to preserve poorly nutritious plant foods when you had plenty of nutritious animal foods

          • 12 months ago
            Anonymous

            >poorly nutritious plant foods when you had plenty of nutritious animal foods
            Wtf is this gay shit you posted?

            Plant foods have more of every vitamin and mineral except B12, iron, and zinc. And of those only B12 is an issue since we fricked our soil (which naturally produces B12) with pesticides.

            And moreover you make this ridiculous claim with no evidence that nobody ate beans for over 8000 years when we have actual literature from 2500 years ago on Greeks fricking living off of fava beans

            Stinky subhuman.

            • 12 months ago
              SwedishBrorsan

              idk why vegans are so obsessed with b12and iron is a nonproblem for a meat eater
              you mentioning 3 nutrients and feel superior without taking bioavailability, digestibility and absorption into account or needs for fats being another

              im not a carnitard or vegan troon but you will always be deficient as a vegan without injections, i love my carbs so theres no need to spamm a meme pic

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >b12and iron is a nonproblem for a meat eater
                Dead wrong.

                The MAJORITY of omnis on this planet have a minor B12 deficiency and the vast majority of meat eaters have iron toxicity. See Dr. Thomas Levy (not a vegan, cope) on that one.

                You can't argue that a vegan diet isn't superior in all aspects of health and longevity which is why you have to focus in on literal nothingburger nutrients
                >cancer risk goes from 1 in 2 to nearly zero
                >heart disease (without processed oils) goes to nearly zero, even reverses
                >diabetes rates shoot down dramatically
                >...
                >but you are getting 200mg less choline!!!

                you also need fats with the calcium too, another vegan dead end
                i also have creatin in excess without supplementing it

                All plant foods have plenty of calcium and getting fats isn't exactly rocket science. You deal realize vegetables have the highest quantities of vitamins and minerals both per calorie and per gram? And don't bring up muh bioavailability shit because your body does absorb basically all of it (except vit. a and iron, which is abundant to the level it'd be toxic if you absorbed it all).

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Thomas Levy
                Jew
                Opinion discarded
                Go back to facebook, pls

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                rates shoot down dramatically
                >Not eating carbs causes diabetes

            • 12 months ago
              Anonymous

              Beef is rich in all the B vitamins. Stupid Black person.

            • 12 months ago
              Anonymous

              >Plant foods have more of every vitamin
              Show me a plant that contains vitamin d. Mushrooms arent plants, btw. And d2 is not d3. Show me a plant that contains vitamin a. Betacarotin is not vitamin a and only a few ppl can actually convert it. Show me a plant that contains dehydroascorbic acid. No, vitamin c cant cross the brainbloodbarier

      • 12 months ago
        Anonymous

        >hunting animals and eating meat before the invention of fire
        it's as if humans all originated from some warm continent

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          Bro wat?
          Inkdoots in Alaska eat raw meat all the fricking time.

    • 12 months ago
      Anonymous

      They cured and smoked meat and fish, they preserved bone marrow. Beans? Hell no.

    • 12 months ago
      Anonymous

      We ate meat for millions of years before the agricultural revolution

      • 12 months ago
        Anonymous

        seems like a flaw in evolution
        bigger brains = more intelligent
        more intelligent = learn to harvest food instead of hunt
        agriculture = smaller brain

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          It's nature course-correcting

          everything in that image is literally false

          >Nothing of value to add to the conversation
          >Just says "false" and walks away
          Micro-brain detected

          • 12 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Just says "false" and walks away
            because it is false and you are not even posting studies, you are just posting random images, go ahead and post an actual study

            • 12 months ago
              Anonymous

              I am hunter gatherer
              i am study, small brain
              lol

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                Can you be any more stupid, do you want me to post a study that completely destroys the belief that "human brains got smaller due to agriculture"

          • 12 months ago
            Anonymous

            It needs to show that sapiens are actually modern cro-magnon who are just a stronger and taller version of modern western europeans, and that cro mags lived alongside neanderthal as totally seperate species of hominids. It's also been shown through DNA mapping as well as paleotology that modern israelites and arabs decend from caananites who have a high percentage of neanderthal.
            With the exception israelites with heavily stolen euro admixture, they are literally still a seperate species of monkey from whites. That's why this is wrong. Also you can't classify asians, africans as europeans as all "homosexual sapiens" when only western europeans came from cro magnon. We're literally all seperate species of hominid, not just seperate "races" of "human".
            >~~*Encyclopedia Britannica, Inc.*~~
            Ah, now I see.

      • 12 months ago
        Anonymous

        everything in that image is literally false

      • 12 months ago
        Anonymous

        Did you rip that image off from facebook? homosexual sapien brain volume continously improved and is at its highest right now, only exception being the autistic cousins neanderthals.

      • 12 months ago
        Anonymous

        Brain volume doesn't have anything to do with intelligence. Is a cow more intelligent than a human because it has a larger brain?

      • 12 months ago
        Anonymous

        That picture is complete bullshit.

      • 12 months ago
        Anonymous

        >they put a Black person face on the cro magnon man and made him dark skinned
        just can't help themselves. if you look at the actual skulls of cro magnon it's pretty fricking obvious they were the most stereotypically Chad looking white people of all time. they're where Chad looking white people come from.

    • 12 months ago
      Anonymous

      there's no way you have that good of a connection

    • 12 months ago
      Anonymous

      >beans in a barrel in 10000bc
      please be bait

    • 12 months ago
      Anonymous

      This. Vegans have a fascination with eating shit and anal sex because of their B12 deficiency and b12 being processed in the gut microbiome, yet predominantly absorbed in the stomach

  3. 12 months ago
    Anonymous

    I eat everything.
    Even poop.

    • 12 months ago
      Anonymous

      Germans always throwing their opinion in.

      • 12 months ago
        Anonymous

        >implying it wasn't a shit bathing piss drinking indian

  4. 12 months ago
    Anonymous

    The only good vegans are the feminine lesbians who are afraid of men.
    t. Chad.

  5. 12 months ago
    Anonymous

    w-where are all the plants?? w-where are the trees full of fruit?? w-what am I supposed to eat? w-why is everyone so much bigger than me ;_;

    • 12 months ago
      Anonymous

      >w-why is everyone so much bigger than me ;_;
      That one is kek!

  6. 12 months ago
    Anonymous

    Humanity invented granaries some 12000 years ago, anon

    • 12 months ago
      Anonymous

      >grainy boys getting beet they fuk of by steppechads
      >buh buh we did it 12000 years ago!

    • 12 months ago
      Anonymous

      Right when our skulls and bodies starting devolving

      • 12 months ago
        Anonymous

        Humans started shrinking around halfway between the LGM and the invention of farming. The larger animals were no longer as prevalent and size wasn’t as evolutionarily vital to a hunter’s survival. The shrinking was exacerbated by the shift toward grain slavery. We didn’t start growing again until the Industrial Revolution.

  7. 12 months ago
    Anonymous

    Hahaha I'm gonna just post this every time I see a vegan arguing in a thread

  8. 12 months ago
    Anonymous

    greenhouse exists you can grow all winter long https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD_3_gsgsnk

  9. 12 months ago
    Anonymous
  10. 12 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why do people assume that natural = healthy? It's literally a logical fallacy, an appeal to nature. Why the frick are people STILL so moronic, can someone explain to me? Why don't they look at the different health outcomes that certain diets produce (cancer, atherosclerosis, all-cause mortality, etc.)?

    • 12 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Why do people assume that natural = healthy?
      Because it is.

    • 12 months ago
      Anonymous

      >redd*t told me it's a logical fallacy
      what's wrong with appealing to nature?

  11. 12 months ago
    Anonymous

    I see your not yet in the edible pine tree timeline,
    welcome

    • 12 months ago
      Anonymous

      If in middlebumfrick of nowhere in winter I see some vegan moron chewing on a tree Im shooting it for food lmao.

  12. 12 months ago
    Anonymous

    All agriculture is industrialized whether it be meat or plant.

  13. 12 months ago
    Anonymous

    All I need to know is the fact that the vast majority of the vegans on here never post body, and the few that do are dyel or fat at worst, and at best they only have noob gains.

    I will continue to eat both animal foods and plant foods because I am not a mentally ill schizophrenic that thinks that eggs are going to kill me somehow.

    • 12 months ago
      Anonymous

      eggs are plant food looking and tasting like seeds being figuratively seeds not pregnant make them plant
      think about it

      • 12 months ago
        Anonymous

        >eggs are vegan
        Lucky bastards, now they won't suffer from numerous micronutrient deficiencies. I've been foiled again

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          They don't know!

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          >>eggs are vegan
          from a moral standpoint, they are. Hens lay eggs without your input, and you're not taking anything from them which they need for survival, in contrast to an animal product like honey
          dumpster diving for meat is morally vegan too because it's already been thrown out, that way at least the animal gets to feed someone instead of having died for nothing

    • 12 months ago
      Anonymous

      >post body
      You first

      • 12 months ago
        Anonymous

        I am not the one making extraordinary claims here dumbass, do I really need to post body to back up my claims of "water and oxygen are good for you"?

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          >my claims of "water and oxygen are good for you"?
          >He's never heard of the Paul Bert and Lorrain Smith effect, or water toxemia and polydipsia

    • 12 months ago
      Anonymous

      The redpill is that animal foods will end up killing you from heart disease but it'll take multiple decades of near-daily consumption to become noticeable.

      You'll also look good while dying because you get a lot of protein. The issue with vegans is they often don't get enough protein.

      >t. autist who treats diet like alchemy and has tried every diet extensively for 6+ years before settling on one

      Vegetarianism with occasional meat consumption is ideal. Just enough protein to keep your gainz and just enough cholesterol to not become impotent while not clogging your arteries.

      • 12 months ago
        Anonymous

        >The redpill is that animal foods will end up killing you from heart disease but it'll take multiple decades of near-daily consumption to become noticeable.
        >You'll also look good while dying because you get a lot of protein. The issue with vegans is they often don't get enough protein.
        My ancestors didn't have this problem so why would I? And even if this was true, who cares? If my healthspan lasts until my 70s and I croak at 90, meanwhile the vegan's healthspan lasts until his 50s but he croaks at 92 instead, who the frick cares? At least I could still do shit for another 20 years lol. This completely ignores anti-aging shit (inb4 mUh s.o.y.ence- if you're saying that animal foods are bad because XYZ study says so, then you can't be against that shit either lol) which would make all of this irrelevant anyway

        https://i.imgur.com/LgOYYHT.jpg

        >poorly nutritious plant foods when you had plenty of nutritious animal foods
        Wtf is this gay shit you posted?

        Plant foods have more of every vitamin and mineral except B12, iron, and zinc. And of those only B12 is an issue since we fricked our soil (which naturally produces B12) with pesticides.

        And moreover you make this ridiculous claim with no evidence that nobody ate beans for over 8000 years when we have actual literature from 2500 years ago on Greeks fricking living off of fava beans

        Stinky subhuman.

        >Plant foods have more of every vitamin and mineral except B12, iron, and zinc.
        Choline, creatine, carnitine, carnosine, retinol, D3, calcium, etc. I could go on but this just isn't true.

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          >My ancestors didn't have this problem so why would I?
          Your ancestors were peasant morons who died in their 20s on average.

          Your "ancestral wisdom" is so incredibly profound. I eagerly await your return to spear hunting in the forests and living in huts. Since the technology brought to you by the abundance of agriculture is so degenerate, after all.

          • 12 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Your ancestors were peasant morons who died in their 20s on average.
            I am talking about my more recent ancestors who lived for quite a long time while eating animal products, not people from the 1300s lol

            Anyway point is, to me the primary things that matter are:
            >macronutrient balance
            >getting all of my micronutrients
            >eating whole foods instead of processed trash
            This is the 99% of health and performance when it comes to diet. Saying that I'm going to die young because I eat eggs is utter lunacy: remember, people still live for ages while doing all sorts of things that are killing them infinitely faster than mUh ChoLesTeroL: drinking, drugs, sleep deprivation, high stress, extremely dangerous lifestyles, etc. These are all infinitely worse yet apparently I'm the one who is going to die because I eat eggs kek. Abstaining from those negative things while following the three aforementioned points is what will take you far.

          • 12 months ago
            Anonymous

            >died in their 20's
            >peasants
            >you spear hunting
            Holy fricking kek.
            Your high school teachers did a number on you. Probably why you use the same dialogue as fat old baby boomer women.

            • 12 months ago
              Anonymous

              >all this talking
              >not returning to the woods to reclaim your big brain cro magnon prowess

              Shh shh anon

              This is some military grade cope
              >yeah well you'll be sorry in 50 years maybe I probably think.
              >nobody lives past 80 unless they eat pasta! Pasta and bread full of onions oil and corn syrup solids aykshyually make you live LONGER.
              The absolute state lol

              Inuits died in their 40s eating traditional diets even with modern medicine. Cope>Seethe>Return to forest

              I am disturbed by the lack of primal warrior behavior in this thread. You aren't getting your meat from Walmart are you? The forests are beckoning.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >no response to

                https://i.imgur.com/AiI3Yai.jpg

                >moronic beyond measure. Reality is not even a single keto advocate has made it past 80 in a century (lmfao).
                Holy shit are you a fricking dumbass? You are not talking to a ketogay, I spam the shit out of fruit and other carb sources. But I also eat eggs, dairy, and red meat because I recognize that I need the nutrients in those foods.
                >Odds are you'll be hooked up to a dialysis machine by 50, suffer numerous mini-strokes, collect a couple heart attacks, and expire of heart failure.
                None of this happened to my parents or my grandparents (still alive btw) so ???????????
                Now that I have equipped you with more knowledge, please let me know what your new estimate of my age of expiry is. Thanks

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >IST is one person

                Only nutrients in animal products that actually matter is
                >iron
                >B12
                >Zinc

                And only B12 is a real concern if you aren't a fricktard with orthorexia.

                >muh Choline, creatine, carnitine, carnosine, retinol, D3, calcium, etc. I could go on

                Most of those are found in plant sources and D3 is called
                >go in the sun for 10 mins a day

                But keep cope and seething. We will outlive you and dab on you(r) (graves) with smiling faces in our elder years.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Most of those are found in plant sources
                Lmao no. You're right about D3 but entirely wrong about the others. Calcium is most abundant in dairy, carnitine and carnosine are found in red meat for the most part (why do you think they both start with carn- lmao), creatine is mostly in red meat and fish, and choline is practically impossible to source from plant foods (to the point where hitting the AI for choline becomes literally impossible unless you orient your entire diet around broccoli, cauliflower, shiitake mushrooms, and beans, which literally no one is going to do lmao), with eggs being by far the best source of choline, and retinol is exclusive to animal foods I think (yes you get beta-carotene from plant foods but it has a shit conversion rate to retinol so)

                >But keep cope and seething. We will outlive you and dab on you(r) (graves) with smiling faces in our elder years.
                Dubious, but in that case I will just dab on you from the astral plane. Cheers

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Calcium
                All foods contain calcium and many plant foods are comparable to dairy. Never gone a single day without meeting my calcium RDI and have never once cared about it.
                >carnitine
                Legumes.
                >carnosine
                Created by your own body from histidine. Non-issue.
                >creatine
                Seeds, legumes, certain grains. Also non-essential.
                >choline
                Found in plentiful amounts in most protein sources. I have no clue what you're on about.

                >retinol
                Retinol is Vitamin A but it's already converted to a biological form so it's more easily assimilated. But considering a single carrot has 11x your daily requirement for Vitamin A, I couldn't fricking care less. Not to mention you memers think retinol is evil now too.

                Literally not even one of your claims has any veracity to it. Go ahead and post your list of meme industry studies I've already debunked years ago

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                have a nice day, Moxyte. Nobody likes you.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                Less seethy, more spear chucky

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                have a nice day, Moxyte. Nobody likes you.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >All foods contain calcium and many plant foods are comparable to dairy. Never gone a single day without meeting my calcium RDI and have never once cared about it.
                BS, I eat a highly varied diet and my calcium would plummet to like 600mg or less if I removed dairy.
                >Legumes.
                Shit source of carnitine, they have hardly any compared to red meat, unless there's a specific one that I don't know about
                >Created by your own body from histidine. Non-issue.
                >Seeds, legumes, certain grains. Also non-essential.
                Fair enough in the case of carnosine, in the case of creatine sorta the same since while plant sources still have barely any creatine, it's also hard to get enough from red meat anyway so most people just supplement it instead
                >Found in plentiful amounts in most protein sources. I have no clue what you're on about.
                Lmao what are you smoking, if I ditched eggs from my diet my choline would plummet to fricking 200mg or less. Remember, that's with other animal products like milk, beef, etc that have lots of choline. Remove those too and my choline goes down even more. Getting 1g of choline without eating eggs is a fricking pipe-dream.
                >Not to mention you memers think retinol is evil now too.
                Literally what the frick are you going on about you schizo?
                >Go ahead and post your list of meme industry studies I've already debunked years ago
                You haven't debunked shit lmao

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                And going back to choline, I've already tested this shit in cronometer. Literally every plant food that is "high" in choline has barely any choline at all: you would need to eat like 10k+ calories worth of peanuts to get to a gram of choline, and you would have to eat literal KILOS of broccoli, cauliflower, mushrooms, or beans to get enough choline, which no one is going to do. And remember, these are plant foods that are supposed to be HIGH in choline, meaning that you're not going to get much if any extra choline from other plant foods.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                https://i.imgur.com/CxffSsB.gif

                >muh calcium
                Your anecdotal experience that you'd lack calcium without dairy doesn't mean shit. And being that humans only recently began drinking milk (6000 years ago), your cavemen ancestors would be chronically deficient in it. And I doubt they were busy making bone broth
                >muh carnitine
                >muh carnosine
                >muh creatine
                >muh chooooline

                You still have yet to establish any reasonable basis for me reducing my longevity, health, cardio, and happiness by 15 years. You know you can't argue for the macro aspects of your diet because it's objectively inferior, so you focus on the minutiae of literal non-essential nutrients as if it matters.

                It'd be like me attacking your meat diet for lacking the heart-healthy lycopene content in tomatoes. It literally doesn't matter on a macro scale

                [...]
                >choline
                You keep obsessing over meme nutrients like this when it was understood a century ago that we can synthesize all we need in our liver.

                Now your argument rests solely on the fact that animal foods have more choline and more always = good right?

                It's a pea brain argument that doesn't stand up to any critical analysis. Get flustered pussy

                Here's an example. The top pic is a bunch of vegan choline "sources." As you can see, you only get 650mg of choline from 1150 calories worth of food, not to mention that is a frick ton of food (1.6kg to be precise). Literally no one is going to do that shit lmao

                Compare this to the bottom pic, which is literally just 6 eggs. 1.1g of choline for less than 600 calories, and the volume of food is much more reasonable. Cope more
                >You know you can't argue for the macro aspects of your diet because it's objectively inferior
                Or I haven't gotten around to it yet? You literally cannot argue with:
                >eat enough protein to maximize muscle
                >eat enough fat for hormonal production
                >fill rest with carbs
                You have no argument for this. None.
                >It'd be like me attacking your meat diet for lacking the heart-healthy lycopene content in tomatoes.
                You're still mistaking me for a ketogay, holy shit how stupid are you? I eat a moronic amount of tomatoes every day, did you not read the line where I stated that I spam the shit out of fruit?
                >You keep obsessing over meme nutrients like this when it was understood a century ago that we can synthesize all we need in our liver.
                There is no evidence to support this.
                >However, studies in patients receiving low-choline solutions intravenously determined that endogenous synthesis was insufficient to prevent liver and muscle dysfunction characteristic of choline deficiency.
                Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6259877/

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >You still have yet to establish any reasonable basis for me reducing my longevity, health, cardio, and happiness by 15 years.
                If by those things you mean heart disease, cancer, diabetes, muscle dysfunciton, and fatty liver, then I agree
                >Considering these many diverse roles, choline deficiency can cause disorders in many bodily systems, including liver, muscle, and lymphocytes in humans and, additionally, the kidney, pancreas, and developing brain and nervous system in animals.
                >Choline deficiency causes clinical illness in humans.
                >One of the first clinical signs of dietary choline deficiency is the development of fatty liver (hepatosteatosis) resulting from the lack of phosphatidylcholine to package and export very-low-density lipoproteins.
                >Choline deficiency is the only nutrient deficiency shown to induce the development of spontaneous carcinoma.
                >Similarly, elevations in muscle enzymes (eg, serum creatine phosphokinase) can occur in humans during choline deficiency.
                >There is also evidence that choline deficiency leads to decrements in some measures of learning and memory.
                >During neurogenesis, neuronal precursor cells proliferate, migrate, and differentiate to neurons. Supplemental choline during this critical period enhances proliferation and differentiation, whereas choline deficiency decreases proliferation and differentiation. Choline deficiency also increases the rate of neuronal cell death.
                >Choline deficiency has been associated with liver and muscle damage and increases in homocysteine (a risk factor for heart disease) after a methionine load. Recent reports suggest that choline metabolism may also play a role in diabetes, cancer, and cystic fibrosis.
                Source: aforementioned

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                have a nice day, Moxyte. Nobody likes you.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >You still have yet to establish any reasonable basis for me reducing my longevity, health, cardio, and happiness by 15 years.
                If by those things you mean heart disease, cancer, diabetes, muscle dysfunciton, and fatty liver, then I agree
                >Considering these many diverse roles, choline deficiency can cause disorders in many bodily systems, including liver, muscle, and lymphocytes in humans and, additionally, the kidney, pancreas, and developing brain and nervous system in animals.
                >Choline deficiency causes clinical illness in humans.
                >One of the first clinical signs of dietary choline deficiency is the development of fatty liver (hepatosteatosis) resulting from the lack of phosphatidylcholine to package and export very-low-density lipoproteins.
                >Choline deficiency is the only nutrient deficiency shown to induce the development of spontaneous carcinoma.
                >Similarly, elevations in muscle enzymes (eg, serum creatine phosphokinase) can occur in humans during choline deficiency.
                >There is also evidence that choline deficiency leads to decrements in some measures of learning and memory.
                >During neurogenesis, neuronal precursor cells proliferate, migrate, and differentiate to neurons. Supplemental choline during this critical period enhances proliferation and differentiation, whereas choline deficiency decreases proliferation and differentiation. Choline deficiency also increases the rate of neuronal cell death.
                >Choline deficiency has been associated with liver and muscle damage and increases in homocysteine (a risk factor for heart disease) after a methionine load. Recent reports suggest that choline metabolism may also play a role in diabetes, cancer, and cystic fibrosis.
                Source: aforementioned

                Stop being a b***h anon. I could care less for your spergouts and you have still failed to provide any valid reasons for reducing my lifespan+++ numerous benefits.

                >b-but you will have slightly lower levels of choline
                And 0% risk of heart disease compared to 50%.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >pic
                You are literally proving my point, are you really going to eat 10 fricking cups of broccoli EVERY DAY? You aren't doing that shit. And yes, you can probably get to the AI for choline purely from plants if you're eating 4k calories a day: but in that case, you need more choline due to having a higher bodymass. So you still lose kek
                >you have still failed to provide any valid reasons for reducing my lifespan+++ numerous benefits.
                You're not living longer, if anything you're going to die sooner. How much sooner? Who knows, I'm not going to tell you that you're going to die in your 50s like you did to me because I'm not a fricking dumbass lmao
                >And 0% risk of heart disease compared to 50%.
                Choline deficiency literally increases risk factors for heart disease you dumb frick

                >You still have yet to establish any reasonable basis for me reducing my longevity, health, cardio, and happiness by 15 years.
                If by those things you mean heart disease, cancer, diabetes, muscle dysfunciton, and fatty liver, then I agree
                >Considering these many diverse roles, choline deficiency can cause disorders in many bodily systems, including liver, muscle, and lymphocytes in humans and, additionally, the kidney, pancreas, and developing brain and nervous system in animals.
                >Choline deficiency causes clinical illness in humans.
                >One of the first clinical signs of dietary choline deficiency is the development of fatty liver (hepatosteatosis) resulting from the lack of phosphatidylcholine to package and export very-low-density lipoproteins.
                >Choline deficiency is the only nutrient deficiency shown to induce the development of spontaneous carcinoma.
                >Similarly, elevations in muscle enzymes (eg, serum creatine phosphokinase) can occur in humans during choline deficiency.
                >There is also evidence that choline deficiency leads to decrements in some measures of learning and memory.
                >During neurogenesis, neuronal precursor cells proliferate, migrate, and differentiate to neurons. Supplemental choline during this critical period enhances proliferation and differentiation, whereas choline deficiency decreases proliferation and differentiation. Choline deficiency also increases the rate of neuronal cell death.
                >Choline deficiency has been associated with liver and muscle damage and increases in homocysteine (a risk factor for heart disease) after a methionine load. Recent reports suggest that choline metabolism may also play a role in diabetes, cancer, and cystic fibrosis.
                Source: aforementioned

                , as well as cancer, diabetes, fatty liver, muscle dysfunction, neurological disorders etc. Even if animal products do cause heart disease, then I would rather have just heart disease instead of heart disease as well as cancer, diabetes, fatty liver, muscle dysfunction, and neurological disorders.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >dying on this hill
                "Choline deficiency can cause muscle damage, liver damage, and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD or hepatosteatosis) [1,2,4,15]. Although most people in the United States consume less than the AI of choline, frank choline deficiency in healthy, nonpregnant individuals is very rare, possibly because of the contribution of choline that the body synthesizes endogenously [1,5]."
                https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Choline-HealthProfessional/

                >inb4 the Science™ is no longer convenient so I'm going to ignore it

                So let me get this straight. I get to avoid
                >heart disease
                >cancer
                >diabetes
                >strokes

                You get to avoid
                >potential choline deficiency while pregnant

                Well frick. Shows over you're right.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >possibly because of the contribution of choline that the body synthesizes endogenously
                I hope you know that this is because of estrogen. You do know that.. right? Right?
                >Specifically, men and postmenopausal women are more susceptible to organ dysfunction compared to premenopausal women, when consuming choline-deficient diets [161,163]. This observation was related to higher estrogen concentrations in premenopausal women, which may enhance the endogenous synthesis of phosphatidylcholine via the PEMT pathway [119].
                >https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6213596/
                And once again, you completely skipped over this
                >However, studies in patients receiving low-choline solutions intravenously determined that endogenous synthesis was insufficient to prevent liver and muscle dysfunction characteristic of choline deficiency.
                Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6259877/

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                https://i.imgur.com/VFoNsEv.jpg

                Also
                >Although most people in the United States consume less than the AI of choline, frank choline deficiency in healthy, nonpregnant individuals is very rare
                You know that most people aren't vegans, right? And yes, the average american eats slop all day, but some of that slop contains eggs, so they won't be missing out on their choline. Not to mention the fact that they eat ridiculous amounts of food because they're obese, so they'll be consuming more than enough.

                And I mean yeah, maybe you do produce enough choline endogenously. If you have as much estrogen as the average young female. Not really a mog by any means tbh

                >less choline in plant foods =/= zero choline consumption causing deficiency

                Your sad attempts to recover from the royal ass blasting I gave you only cause me to feel pity. Now I am getting bored so you'll need to conjure up some relevant bait or I'm out.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >>less choline in plant foods =/= zero choline consumption causing deficiency
                You have yet to prove that you can even reach 550mg from plant foods alone, let alone 1g which is better for optimal performance (remember, 550mg is just to stop your liver from exploding).
                >Your sad attempts to recover from the royal ass blasting I gave you only cause me to feel pity.
                You haven't managed to "debunk" a single one of my points, you're just side-stepping them again. But I concede, I guess you aren't choline deficient at all, because you produce enough endogenously. But you have man-breasts because you have more estrogen in your bloodstream than the average female. So who cares? I don't want to end up like that, so I'll keep eating the eggs. No thanks.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                Now you're still attempting to recover from your assblasting by pretending to be smug and using ad hominem. Really poor taste.

                You should probably supplement some choline because you lack the brain function necessary to read what's right in front of you. The NIH article I linked stated that a portion of that 550mg is synthesized in the liver.

                Not only that but lentils actually have the highest levels of choline per gram, even higher than red meat Every plant food has choline to one degree or another and all of the protein-rich foods also have adequate choline levels to meet your requirements, even if we ignored the liver's process in manufacturing it.

                I'll be back in this thread later but I'm done responding to these posts because I don't find childish back and forth amusing. It was fun to discuss the science but when you consciously ignore critical aspects to make strawmens out of a wounded ego, it saps all the fun out of it.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >>Now you're still attempting to recover from your assblasting by pretending to be smug and using ad hominem. Really poor taste.
                >I won because I said so
                What did he mean by this?
                >The NIH article I linked stated that a portion of that 550mg is synthesized in the liver.
                50mg of 500mg still leaves 500mg. Also, aren't you forgetting something?
                >When deprived of dietary choline, 77% of men and 80% of postmenopausal women developed fatty liver or muscle damage, whereas only 44% of premenopausal women developed such signs of organ dysfunction. Moreover, 6 men developed these signs while consuming 550 mg choline · 70 kg−1 · d−1, the AI for choline. Folic acid supplementation did not alter the subjects’ response.
                >Moreover, 6 men developed these signs while consuming 550 mg choline · 70 kg−1 · d−1, the AI for choline.
                Even while consuming the AI (meaning, they were getting more than 550mg since additional choline was being synthesized in the liver) they still suffered from choline deficiency. You're the one who needs choline, not me, since I'm sitting around 2g a day at the moment, with 1g being the absolute lowest I consume on a bad day.
                Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2435503/
                >Not only that but lentils actually have the highest levels of choline per gram, even higher than red meat
                You slimy frick, now you're trying to use chutzpah on me? Fricking hell. Pic rel, 15 cups of boiled lentils doesn't even get you to 1 gram of choline. Frick off with your nonsense.
                >Every plant food has choline to one degree or another and all of the protein-rich foods also have adequate choline levels to meet your requirements, even if we ignored the liver's process in manufacturing it.
                Already disproved this
                >It was fun to discuss the science but when you consciously ignore critical aspects to make strawmens out of a wounded ego, it saps all the fun out of it.
                Vegan projects his own faults and flaws onto his opponent: many such cases!

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                lmao

                imagine sending yourself to an early grave from every major lifestyle disease, but at least you got more choline

                the cope of meatgays is next level

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >imagine sending yourself to an early grave from every major lifestyle disease, but at least you got more choline
                None of this has happened to my parents or grandparents. You have yet to explain this fact.

                https://i.imgur.com/DPyO80Z.jpg

                >b12and iron is a nonproblem for a meat eater
                Dead wrong.

                The MAJORITY of omnis on this planet have a minor B12 deficiency and the vast majority of meat eaters have iron toxicity. See Dr. Thomas Levy (not a vegan, cope) on that one.

                You can't argue that a vegan diet isn't superior in all aspects of health and longevity which is why you have to focus in on literal nothingburger nutrients
                >cancer risk goes from 1 in 2 to nearly zero
                >heart disease (without processed oils) goes to nearly zero, even reverses
                >diabetes rates shoot down dramatically
                >...
                >but you are getting 200mg less choline!!!
                [...]
                All plant foods have plenty of calcium and getting fats isn't exactly rocket science. You deal realize vegetables have the highest quantities of vitamins and minerals both per calorie and per gram? And don't bring up muh bioavailability shit because your body does absorb basically all of it (except vit. a and iron, which is abundant to the level it'd be toxic if you absorbed it all).

                If I had to choose between living to 90 with increased physical and mental functions vs living to 92 but being physically weak and mentally inferior, I would take living to 90 thank you very much.
                risk goes from 1 in 2 to nearly zero
                disease (without processed oils) goes to nearly zero, even reverses
                rates shoot down dramatically
                Lol. Lmao

                https://i.imgur.com/RN2aFNu.jpg

                >Fiber
                >Carbohydrates
                >Vitamin C
                >Vitamin K
                >Calcium (excluding milk)
                >Healthy polyunsaturated fats (inb4 seed oils =/= natural foods)
                >Magnesium, Manganese

                Not to mention the antioxidants, polyphenols, bioflavonoids, anthocyanins, and literally tens of thousands of beneficial compounds that benefit your health and longevity.

                Meanwhile

                Concerns on vegan diet:
                >B12
                >potentially choline
                >Getting enough omega 3's
                >eating protein rich foods

                That's literally it. You can ignore it if you want but you will die quicker.

                Which is why you eat both animal and plant foods. Gee whiz, that was so complicated, wasn't it? Now I have no micronutrient or macronutrient deficiencies at all, and I get all of these as well
                >antioxidants, polyphenols, bioflavonoids, anthocyanins, and literally tens of thousands of beneficial compounds that benefit your health and longevity.

                https://i.imgur.com/uBdTyY9.jpg

                [...]
                [...]
                [...]
                [...]
                [...]
                >Choline

                "There is no RDA for choline. Only an Adequate Intake (AI), reflecting a limited knowledge of requirements. The actual requirement is somewhere between 2 and 7 mg/kg/d, in the context of a betaine free diet.

                An intake level of 500 mg/day (4.8 mmol/day; approximately 7 mg/kg/day [0.7mmol/kg/day]) of choline base is the dose that prevented alanine aminotransferase abnormalities in healthy men (Zeisel et al., 1991). This estimate for an AI is uncertain because it is based on a single published study; it may need revision when other data become available. This estimate fits within the bracketing estimates derived from patients on total parenteral nutrition for whom approximately 2 mg/kg/day of choline moiety did not prevent a deficiency syndrome (Sheard et al., 1986) and 31 mg/kg/day of choline moiety restored normal choline status (Buchman et al., 1992, 1993).

                Much (most?) dietary choline is metabolized to betaine, so betaine intake (from many vegetables, especially spinach and beets) may spare the choline requirement.

                As noted in the above passage, choline deficiency is detectable through elevated ALT on std blood tests."

                also

                >"Choline interacts with gut bacteria to make the blood more prone to clotting by helping to produce a compound called, trimethylene N-oxide (TMAO)"
                https://www.clevelandheartlab.com/blog/choline-tmao-heart-health/
                >"Choline is a dietary precursor to the gut microbial generation of the prothrombotic and proatherogenic metabolite trimethylamine-N-oxide (TMAO)."
                https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(21)00229-1/fulltext
                >"Researchers from the Cleveland Clinic...identified a compound called TMAO...the more TMAO they had in their blood, the greater the odds they had heart disease, and the worse their heart disease was..."
                https://nutritionfacts.org/video/egg-industry-response-to-choline-and-tmao/

                >muh TMAO
                Doesn't increase from choline found in eggs
                https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33872583/
                >Participants' plasma TMAO levels increased significantly in all 3 intervention arms containing choline bitartrate (all P < .0001), but daily ingestion of 4 large eggs (P = .28) or phosphatidylcholine supplements (P = .27) failed to increase plasma TMAO levels. Platelet reactivity also significantly increased in the 3 intervention arms containing choline bitartrate (all P < .01), but not with eggs (P = .10) or phosphatidylcholine supplements (P = .79).
                >Despite high choline content in egg yolks, healthy participants consuming 4 eggs daily showed no significant increase in TMAO or platelet reactivity. However, choline bitartrate supplements providing comparable total choline raised both TMAO and platelet reactivity, demonstrating that the form and source of dietary choline differentially contributes to systemic TMAO levels and platelet responsiveness.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >ketoschizo can't argue against the facts so he pretends to be balanced omni

                Reminds me Sv3rige eating fruit and lettuce again and CarnivoreMD doing the same.

                If you had any integrity at all you'd apologize for misleading tons of people with your meme diet nonsense. You gays were literally arguing against drinking water here a month ago.

                >choline
                We debunked your choline fearmongering ITT a decade ago. You still can't argue against the macro effects of plant-based diets.

                Absolute bullshit idgaf about your links
                Again, the bean bois in South Asia have sky high CHD, there is nowhere where heart attacks are "virtually nonexistent"
                You will likely die of one, if not then cancer or dementia, no matter what you do, do you think vegans live forever or something?

                I noticed your reply to a fellow veganons post here. You didn't even bother to read a single study on the subject.

                You are disingenuous, dishonest, and do a disservice to everyone you come across. Just being on IST doesn't excuse recklessly dishonest behavior. Learn to be truthful.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Reminds me Sv3rige eating fruit and lettuce again and CarnivoreMD doing the same.
                >If you had any integrity at all you'd apologize for misleading tons of people with your meme diet nonsense. You gays were literally arguing against drinking water here a month ago.
                Dude I literally just ate my breakfast which has over 100g of carbs, why do you people keep assuming your opponents are ketogays? I eat a shit ton of:
                >apricots
                >bananas
                >raisins
                >tomatoes
                >pineapple
                >milk
                >kefir
                >rice
                None of these are keto. I don't advocate for keto, or carnivore, or veganism. Stop being disingenuous
                >We debunked your choline fearmongering ITT a decade ago.
                Nope
                >You still can't argue against the macro effects of plant-based diets.

                Absolute bullshit idgaf about your links


                Again, the bean bois in South Asia have sky high CHD, there is nowhere where heart attacks are "virtually nonexistent"
                You will likely die of one, if not then cancer or dementia, no matter what you do, do you think vegans live forever or something? I noticed your reply to a fellow veganons post here. You didn't even bother to read a single study on the subject.
                You're confusing me with a different anon, dafaq? More vegan brain malfunctioning
                >You are disingenuous, dishonest, and do a disservice to everyone you come across. Just being on IST doesn't excuse recklessly dishonest behavior. Learn to be truthful.
                Great, more projection. You love to see it

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >You gays were literally arguing against drinking water here a month ago
                Wasent here but drinking water is something veggietards do. Bäääähhhh
                I drink milk

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Sv3rige
                Roflmao! You watch that? Topkek
                You realise that this guy literally eats McDonald's? You think that shit is real? Go outside when you start to believe the screen!

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Doesn't increase from choline found in eggs
                >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33872583/
                ' plasma TMAO levels increased significantly in all 3 intervention arms containing choline bitartrate (all P < .0001), but daily ingestion of 4 large eggs (P = .28) or phosphatidylcholine supplements (P = .27) failed to increase plasma TMAO levels. Platelet reactivity also significantly increased in the 3 intervention arms containing choline bitartrate (all P < .01), but not with eggs (P = .10) or phosphatidylcholine supplements (P = .79).
                high choline content in egg yolks, healthy participants consuming 4 eggs daily showed no significant increase in TMAO or platelet reactivity. However, choline bitartrate supplements providing comparable total choline raised both TMAO and platelet reactivity, demonstrating that the form and source of dietary choline differentially contributes to systemic TMAO levels and platelet responsiveness.
                That study in an infamous junk study. Your kidneys eliminate TMAO after a high-saturated fat meal in 3-4 hours. While the study only tested their levels 12 hours after their egg meals. Not to mention half of the researchers were egg industry associates.

                It's complete junk science.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >That study in an infamous junk study. Your kidneys eliminate TMAO after a high-saturated fat meal in 3-4 hours.
                But it doesn't eliminate TMAO from choline bitartrate? Also dafaq is this then?
                >There are similarly mixed results on the specific relationship between egg/choline consumption and TMAO. Previous studies by our group showed a 10-fold increase in plasma TMAO levels following choline supplementation over a one month period with an accompanying increase in platelet reactivity,25 and a randomized, dose-response study by Miller et al. showed elevated TMAO concentrations 24 hours after ingesting two eggs.26 However, other studies failed to find a similar increase in plasma TMAO after consumption of up to three whole eggs per day over four weeks,27 and a recent study by Lemos et al. also failed to see elevated plasma TMAO concentrations after four weeks of daily egg consumption.28
                >a randomized, dose-response study by Miller et al. showed elevated TMAO concentrations 24 hours after ingesting two eggs.
                ????
                >Not to mention half of the researchers were egg industry associates.
                Citation?
                >Conflict of Interest Disclosures:
                SLH reports being named as co-inventor on pending and issued patents held by the Cleveland Clinic relating to cardiovascular diagnostics and therapeutics, being a paid consultant for Procter & Gamble, and having received research funds from Procter & Gamble, and Roche Diagnostics. SLH also reports being eligible to receive royalty payments for inventions or discoveries related to cardiovascular diagnostics or therapeutics from Cleveland Heart Lab and Procter & Gamble. WT served as a paid consultant for Sequana Medical AG and received honoraria from Springer Nature and American Board of Internal Medicine, all unrelated to the present topic. The other authors have reported that they have no relationships relevant to the contents of this paper to disclose.
                Which ones are egg industry associates? Don't see them at first glance

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                have a nice day, Moxyte. Nobody likes you.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                Also
                >Although most people in the United States consume less than the AI of choline, frank choline deficiency in healthy, nonpregnant individuals is very rare
                You know that most people aren't vegans, right? And yes, the average american eats slop all day, but some of that slop contains eggs, so they won't be missing out on their choline. Not to mention the fact that they eat ridiculous amounts of food because they're obese, so they'll be consuming more than enough.

                And I mean yeah, maybe you do produce enough choline endogenously. If you have as much estrogen as the average young female. Not really a mog by any means tbh

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >0% risk of heart disease
                LMAOOOO
                This homie thinks heart disease is as simple as that wtf it's the number 1 killer of vegans idiot
                Go look at CHD numbers for the plant based Indians and pakis LOL

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                Indians aren't vegans and you disingenuous shills love to remind people of that. They consume copious amounts of milk and ghee. Both filled with saturated and trans fats.

                They still have 35% less heart disease than the USA.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                But there are loads of vegans *in* India, yet no miraculous longevity and they all have chronic disease and weak little bodies

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >They still have 35% less heart disease than the USA.
                And in the usa meat consumtion is at an all time low. And the nation is sicker than ever. I hate vegans and especially indian ones btw

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >muh calcium
                Your anecdotal experience that you'd lack calcium without dairy doesn't mean shit. And being that humans only recently began drinking milk (6000 years ago), your cavemen ancestors would be chronically deficient in it. And I doubt they were busy making bone broth
                >muh carnitine
                >muh carnosine
                >muh creatine
                >muh chooooline

                You still have yet to establish any reasonable basis for me reducing my longevity, health, cardio, and happiness by 15 years. You know you can't argue for the macro aspects of your diet because it's objectively inferior, so you focus on the minutiae of literal non-essential nutrients as if it matters.

                It'd be like me attacking your meat diet for lacking the heart-healthy lycopene content in tomatoes. It literally doesn't matter on a macro scale

                And going back to choline, I've already tested this shit in cronometer. Literally every plant food that is "high" in choline has barely any choline at all: you would need to eat like 10k+ calories worth of peanuts to get to a gram of choline, and you would have to eat literal KILOS of broccoli, cauliflower, mushrooms, or beans to get enough choline, which no one is going to do. And remember, these are plant foods that are supposed to be HIGH in choline, meaning that you're not going to get much if any extra choline from other plant foods.

                >choline
                You keep obsessing over meme nutrients like this when it was understood a century ago that we can synthesize all we need in our liver.

                Now your argument rests solely on the fact that animal foods have more choline and more always = good right?

                It's a pea brain argument that doesn't stand up to any critical analysis. Get flustered pussy

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                https://i.imgur.com/tkS0jK6.png

                [...]
                Here's an example. The top pic is a bunch of vegan choline "sources." As you can see, you only get 650mg of choline from 1150 calories worth of food, not to mention that is a frick ton of food (1.6kg to be precise). Literally no one is going to do that shit lmao

                Compare this to the bottom pic, which is literally just 6 eggs. 1.1g of choline for less than 600 calories, and the volume of food is much more reasonable. Cope more
                >You know you can't argue for the macro aspects of your diet because it's objectively inferior
                Or I haven't gotten around to it yet? You literally cannot argue with:
                >eat enough protein to maximize muscle
                >eat enough fat for hormonal production
                >fill rest with carbs
                You have no argument for this. None.
                >It'd be like me attacking your meat diet for lacking the heart-healthy lycopene content in tomatoes.
                You're still mistaking me for a ketogay, holy shit how stupid are you? I eat a moronic amount of tomatoes every day, did you not read the line where I stated that I spam the shit out of fruit?
                >You keep obsessing over meme nutrients like this when it was understood a century ago that we can synthesize all we need in our liver.
                There is no evidence to support this.
                >However, studies in patients receiving low-choline solutions intravenously determined that endogenous synthesis was insufficient to prevent liver and muscle dysfunction characteristic of choline deficiency.
                Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6259877/

                >You still have yet to establish any reasonable basis for me reducing my longevity, health, cardio, and happiness by 15 years.
                If by those things you mean heart disease, cancer, diabetes, muscle dysfunciton, and fatty liver, then I agree
                >Considering these many diverse roles, choline deficiency can cause disorders in many bodily systems, including liver, muscle, and lymphocytes in humans and, additionally, the kidney, pancreas, and developing brain and nervous system in animals.
                >Choline deficiency causes clinical illness in humans.
                >One of the first clinical signs of dietary choline deficiency is the development of fatty liver (hepatosteatosis) resulting from the lack of phosphatidylcholine to package and export very-low-density lipoproteins.
                >Choline deficiency is the only nutrient deficiency shown to induce the development of spontaneous carcinoma.
                >Similarly, elevations in muscle enzymes (eg, serum creatine phosphokinase) can occur in humans during choline deficiency.
                >There is also evidence that choline deficiency leads to decrements in some measures of learning and memory.
                >During neurogenesis, neuronal precursor cells proliferate, migrate, and differentiate to neurons. Supplemental choline during this critical period enhances proliferation and differentiation, whereas choline deficiency decreases proliferation and differentiation. Choline deficiency also increases the rate of neuronal cell death.
                >Choline deficiency has been associated with liver and muscle damage and increases in homocysteine (a risk factor for heart disease) after a methionine load. Recent reports suggest that choline metabolism may also play a role in diabetes, cancer, and cystic fibrosis.
                Source: aforementioned

                Addendum

                >The primary criterion used to estimate the Adequate Intake (AI) for choline is the prevention of liver damage as assessed by measuring serum alanine aminotransferase levels. The AI for adults is 550 mg/day of choline for men and 425 mg/day for women.
                Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK114308/
                >When deprived of dietary choline, 77% of men and 80% of postmenopausal women developed fatty liver or muscle damage, whereas only 44% of premenopausal women developed such signs of organ dysfunction. Moreover, 6 men developed these signs while consuming 550 mg choline · 70 kg−1 · d−1, the AI for choline. Folic acid supplementation did not alter the subjects’ response.
                Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2435503/
                >Recent analyses indicate that large portions of the population (ie, approximately 90% of Americans), including most pregnant and lactating women, are well below the AI for choline. Moreover, the food patterns recommended by the 2015–2020 Dietary Guidelines for Americans are currently insufficient to meet the AI for choline in most age-sex groups.
                Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6259877/

              • 12 months ago
                SwedishBrorsan

                you also need fats with the calcium too, another vegan dead end
                i also have creatin in excess without supplementing it

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                Which plants can you get choline, creatine, carnosine, calcium, etc in amount comparable to meat, (adjusted for bioavailaility of course)?

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                WHAT CAN I GET FROM PLANTS THAT I DON'T GET FROM SOME KIND OF MEAT OR EGGS

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous
              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Fiber
                >Carbohydrates
                >Vitamin C
                >Vitamin K
                >Calcium (excluding milk)
                >Healthy polyunsaturated fats (inb4 seed oils =/= natural foods)
                >Magnesium, Manganese

                Not to mention the antioxidants, polyphenols, bioflavonoids, anthocyanins, and literally tens of thousands of beneficial compounds that benefit your health and longevity.

                Meanwhile

                Concerns on vegan diet:
                >B12
                >potentially choline
                >Getting enough omega 3's
                >eating protein rich foods

                That's literally it. You can ignore it if you want but you will die quicker.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                Dafuq is wrong with 118g total fat per day, the fricking planty Mediterranean diet has more than that

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                D3 in the winter is also an issue

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                You're going to be deficient in D3 as a meatcuck as well unless you eat salmon every day.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                You're going to be deficient in D3 as a meatcuck as well unless you eat salmon every day.

                [...]
                oh and Vit K2. i dont see any natto in ur diet plan

                D3/K2 is one of the only supplements that actually makes sense for almost everyone

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                D3 in the winter is also an issue

                oh and Vit K2. i dont see any natto in ur diet plan

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                I got your K2 right here buddy

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                Imagine taunting people about getting heart diesase, psycho dweeb
                Its the leading killer of everyone of any diet anyway, there's nothing magic you can do to prevent it despite what your gurus tell you

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >there's nothing magic you can do to prevent it despite what your gurus tell you
                Reversing heart disease on a plant-based whole foods diet:

                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2100124/
                https://ijdrp.org/index.php/ijdrp/article/view/41?ck_subscriber_id=141115044
                http://www.dresselstyn.com/Esselstyn_Three-case-reports_Exp-Clin-Cardiol-July-2014.pdf
                http://www.dresselstyn.com/Esselstyn_Caldwell_Article.pdf
                www.dresselstyn.com/site/study01/
                http://www.dresselstyn.com/site/study02/
                www.dresselstyn.com/site/study03/
                http://www.dresselstyn.com/site/study07/
                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5466936/
                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1849886/'
                https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2014nl/dec/saturatedfat.htm
                https://www.drmcdougall.com/articles/common-health-problems/heart-disease-treatment/
                https://www.jacc.org/doi/full/10.1016/j.jacc.2016.10.086
                http://www.dresselstyn.com/site/news-and-information/
                "Dr. Esselstyn attributes the success of his 12-year trial to substantially lower mean levels of both total cholesterol (145 mg/dl) and LDL (82 mg/dl), low-density lipoproteins or so-called “bad cholesterol.” To achieve these levels, the 18 patients in Dr. Esselstyn’s study consumed less than 10 percent of their daily calories from fat–a percentage common in countries where heart disease is virtually nonexistent–and took cholesterol-lowering medications.
                “In this study, patients become virtually heart-attack proof,” says Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr., M.D., which is remarkable since these same patients had experienced 48 cardiac events among them in the eight years prior to joining the study. Over more than a decade of Dr. Esselstyn’s ongoing trial, only one patient, who was noncompliant, experienced a cardiac event."

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                Absolute bullshit idgaf about your links
                Again, the bean bois in South Asia have sky high CHD, there is nowhere where heart attacks are "virtually nonexistent"
                You will likely die of one, if not then cancer or dementia, no matter what you do, do you think vegans live forever or something?

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                My evidence vegans don't live forever is when you ACK after a wasted life sitting in your chair spamming IST day and night

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                I just entered the thread and posted the evidence.

                But there are loads of vegans *in* India, yet no miraculous longevity and they all have chronic disease and weak little bodies

                Animal product consumers have the worst health outcomes and people who eat animal products regularly are no exception because they eat plants as well.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                If you seriously think that just not eating animal products will not only reduce the risk of (plausible) but almost eliminate the number one killer in society, you've been sold the bridge already lmao
                It's the number 1 killer of vegans, on the rise in vegans at the same rate as the general pop and most people on vegan diets quit due to other health issues, your heart attack-less future is simply not happening so I suggest you stop mocking the condition you and most of your family will likely get and die from

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                That's not evidence.

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                How does it feel being a real life soijak?

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                take your meds ketoschizo

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                Jewbegone

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Dr. Dean Ornish reversing heart disease with a WFPB diet
                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9863851
                >Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn Jr reversing heart disease with a WFPB diet
                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25198208
                https://www.livekindly.com/102-former-surgeon-secret-avoiding-heart-disease/

                Reversing type 2 Diabetes on a plant-based whole foods diet:
                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2677007/
                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2671114/
                https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34113961/
                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6153574/
                https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2738784

                Red meat and heart disease:
                https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/40/7/583/5232723
                nutritionfacts.org/topics/heart-health/
                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4921549/
                https://www.ndph.ox.ac.uk/news/moderate-meat-eaters-at-risk-of-bowel-cancer
                "One in 15 men and 1 in 18 women born after 1960 in the UK will be diagnosed with bowel cancer in their lifetime. This study found that risk rose 19% with every 25g of processed meat (roughly equivalent to a rasher of bacon or slice of ham) people ate per day, and 18% with every 50g of red meat (a thick slice of roast beef or the edible bit of a lamb chop). Professor Tim Key, co-author of the study and Deputy Director of the Cancer Epidemiology Unit, Nuffield Department of Population Health, said: ‘Our results strongly suggest that people who eat red and processed meat four or more times a week have a higher risk of developing bowel cancer than those who eat red and processed meat less than twice a week."
                https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29274927/

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                ur more likely to get heart disease without k2 in ur diet but it seems ive provoked some emotional reaction. whats up buddy?

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                This is totally wrong on the calcium, fish (with bones) sends you way over the daily requirements

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                C
                You just proved that you dont think but spit out your nonsense programming

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Concerns on vegan diet:
                I think you forgot to mention that you became a troony from it. And that you voted for hillary. And that you think that climate change is real. And that a brain is made to 25% out of cholesterol and omega3, which your sheepdiet lacks completely...

              • 12 months ago
                Anonymous

                Oh weird, there's a 100 year old inuit woman in my country who subsists on seals and whale blubber. She was interviewed on the news a few years back. Should she eat some broccoli and toast with avacado to get herself to 105? Perhaps some margerine is what she needs?

          • 12 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Your ancestors were peasant morons who died in their 20s on average.
            Lmao is this meme ever gonna die?

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          >"healthspan"
          >92 instead of 90

          moronic beyond measure. Reality is not even a single keto advocate has made it past 80 in a century (lmfao).

          Odds are you'll be hooked up to a dialysis machine by 50, suffer numerous mini-strokes, collect a couple heart attacks, and expire of heart failure.

          But look on the bright side, you'll have slightly more muscle mass than the vegans who didn't eat enough protein, and the highest choline levels in the entire cancer ward.

          • 12 months ago
            Anonymous

            >moronic beyond measure. Reality is not even a single keto advocate has made it past 80 in a century (lmfao).
            Holy shit are you a fricking dumbass? You are not talking to a ketogay, I spam the shit out of fruit and other carb sources. But I also eat eggs, dairy, and red meat because I recognize that I need the nutrients in those foods.
            >Odds are you'll be hooked up to a dialysis machine by 50, suffer numerous mini-strokes, collect a couple heart attacks, and expire of heart failure.
            None of this happened to my parents or my grandparents (still alive btw) so ???????????

          • 12 months ago
            Anonymous

            This is some military grade cope
            >yeah well you'll be sorry in 50 years maybe I probably think.
            >nobody lives past 80 unless they eat pasta! Pasta and bread full of onions oil and corn syrup solids aykshyually make you live LONGER.
            The absolute state lol

          • 12 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Odds are you'll be hooked up to a dialysis machine by 50,
            Like shawn backer who holds several strength world records?

        • 12 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Most of those are found in plant sources
          Lmao no. You're right about D3 but entirely wrong about the others. Calcium is most abundant in dairy, carnitine and carnosine are found in red meat for the most part (why do you think they both start with carn- lmao), creatine is mostly in red meat and fish, and choline is practically impossible to source from plant foods (to the point where hitting the AI for choline becomes literally impossible unless you orient your entire diet around broccoli, cauliflower, shiitake mushrooms, and beans, which literally no one is going to do lmao), with eggs being by far the best source of choline, and retinol is exclusive to animal foods I think (yes you get beta-carotene from plant foods but it has a shit conversion rate to retinol so)

          >But keep cope and seething. We will outlive you and dab on you(r) (graves) with smiling faces in our elder years.
          Dubious, but in that case I will just dab on you from the astral plane. Cheers

          Which plants can you get choline, creatine, carnosine, calcium, etc in amount comparable to meat, (adjusted for bioavailaility of course)?

          >All foods contain calcium and many plant foods are comparable to dairy. Never gone a single day without meeting my calcium RDI and have never once cared about it.
          BS, I eat a highly varied diet and my calcium would plummet to like 600mg or less if I removed dairy.
          >Legumes.
          Shit source of carnitine, they have hardly any compared to red meat, unless there's a specific one that I don't know about
          >Created by your own body from histidine. Non-issue.
          >Seeds, legumes, certain grains. Also non-essential.
          Fair enough in the case of carnosine, in the case of creatine sorta the same since while plant sources still have barely any creatine, it's also hard to get enough from red meat anyway so most people just supplement it instead
          >Found in plentiful amounts in most protein sources. I have no clue what you're on about.
          Lmao what are you smoking, if I ditched eggs from my diet my choline would plummet to fricking 200mg or less. Remember, that's with other animal products like milk, beef, etc that have lots of choline. Remove those too and my choline goes down even more. Getting 1g of choline without eating eggs is a fricking pipe-dream.
          >Not to mention you memers think retinol is evil now too.
          Literally what the frick are you going on about you schizo?
          >Go ahead and post your list of meme industry studies I've already debunked years ago
          You haven't debunked shit lmao

          And going back to choline, I've already tested this shit in cronometer. Literally every plant food that is "high" in choline has barely any choline at all: you would need to eat like 10k+ calories worth of peanuts to get to a gram of choline, and you would have to eat literal KILOS of broccoli, cauliflower, mushrooms, or beans to get enough choline, which no one is going to do. And remember, these are plant foods that are supposed to be HIGH in choline, meaning that you're not going to get much if any extra choline from other plant foods.

          https://i.imgur.com/tkS0jK6.png

          [...]
          Here's an example. The top pic is a bunch of vegan choline "sources." As you can see, you only get 650mg of choline from 1150 calories worth of food, not to mention that is a frick ton of food (1.6kg to be precise). Literally no one is going to do that shit lmao

          Compare this to the bottom pic, which is literally just 6 eggs. 1.1g of choline for less than 600 calories, and the volume of food is much more reasonable. Cope more
          >You know you can't argue for the macro aspects of your diet because it's objectively inferior
          Or I haven't gotten around to it yet? You literally cannot argue with:
          >eat enough protein to maximize muscle
          >eat enough fat for hormonal production
          >fill rest with carbs
          You have no argument for this. None.
          >It'd be like me attacking your meat diet for lacking the heart-healthy lycopene content in tomatoes.
          You're still mistaking me for a ketogay, holy shit how stupid are you? I eat a moronic amount of tomatoes every day, did you not read the line where I stated that I spam the shit out of fruit?
          >You keep obsessing over meme nutrients like this when it was understood a century ago that we can synthesize all we need in our liver.
          There is no evidence to support this.
          >However, studies in patients receiving low-choline solutions intravenously determined that endogenous synthesis was insufficient to prevent liver and muscle dysfunction characteristic of choline deficiency.
          Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6259877/

          >Choline

          "There is no RDA for choline. Only an Adequate Intake (AI), reflecting a limited knowledge of requirements. The actual requirement is somewhere between 2 and 7 mg/kg/d, in the context of a betaine free diet.

          An intake level of 500 mg/day (4.8 mmol/day; approximately 7 mg/kg/day [0.7mmol/kg/day]) of choline base is the dose that prevented alanine aminotransferase abnormalities in healthy men (Zeisel et al., 1991). This estimate for an AI is uncertain because it is based on a single published study; it may need revision when other data become available. This estimate fits within the bracketing estimates derived from patients on total parenteral nutrition for whom approximately 2 mg/kg/day of choline moiety did not prevent a deficiency syndrome (Sheard et al., 1986) and 31 mg/kg/day of choline moiety restored normal choline status (Buchman et al., 1992, 1993).

          Much (most?) dietary choline is metabolized to betaine, so betaine intake (from many vegetables, especially spinach and beets) may spare the choline requirement.

          As noted in the above passage, choline deficiency is detectable through elevated ALT on std blood tests."

          also

          >"Choline interacts with gut bacteria to make the blood more prone to clotting by helping to produce a compound called, trimethylene N-oxide (TMAO)"
          https://www.clevelandheartlab.com/blog/choline-tmao-heart-health/
          >"Choline is a dietary precursor to the gut microbial generation of the prothrombotic and proatherogenic metabolite trimethylamine-N-oxide (TMAO)."
          https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(21)00229-1/fulltext
          >"Researchers from the Cleveland Clinic...identified a compound called TMAO...the more TMAO they had in their blood, the greater the odds they had heart disease, and the worse their heart disease was..."
          https://nutritionfacts.org/video/egg-industry-response-to-choline-and-tmao/

      • 12 months ago
        Anonymous

        >t. autist who treats diet like alchemy and has tried every diet extensively for 6+ years before settling on one
        Liar. Your a israelite and never tried carnivore

      • 12 months ago
        Anonymous

        I wish to be a diet trying pilled anon like this
        Find what works for you

  14. 12 months ago
    Anonymous

    >walk up to tree, collect pinenuts, roast
    >store grains to last through winter like your (actual) peasant ancestors did

    Now post a pic of your body and let's see if you could pull off the hunter Xgatherer lifestyle.

  15. 12 months ago
    Anonymous

    Moxyte containment thread status: fully functional

  16. 12 months ago
    Anonymous

    Vegans are literally moronic. Mentally stunted children.
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100517111910.htm

  17. 12 months ago
    Anonymous

    Winter vegetables are a thing OP

  18. 12 months ago
    Anonymous

    This isnt the argument you think it is. Unless you literally live in that environment, wtf is your point?

  19. 12 months ago
    Anonymous

    But look at all those delicious and nutritious trees they can eat

  20. 12 months ago
    Anonymous

    >all these posts
    >zero bodies posted
    let's see your gains, vegans
    and I mean YOUR body, not some shill you found on youtube

  21. 12 months ago
    Anonymous

    nature yeah

  22. 12 months ago
    Anonymous

    mmm pine needle soup
    good thing that shipment of bananas is due in any minute now

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