Are birddogs a meme, or is this actually a good lower back/core exercise?

Jeremy Ethier gave it high marks in his lower back vid.

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  1. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    any exercise women do is a meme

  2. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >*mogs you*

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      It's good but it's hard to progressively overload in an effective way
      As a man you're probably going to have the core/back strength to theoretically handle a lot more load than you're actually going to be able to keep held up in a front raise like that

      Not even close to the same thing you dumbass

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Back extensions are certainly a lower back exercise you absolute buffoon.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          And they do absolutely nothing for obliques or abs or the little core muscles covered up by those
          Your post is like going into a thread about pullups and posting a muscles worked image of shrugs and saying >mogs you

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            You can do lateral flexions on a back extension, that trains the obliques better than pretty much anything else I've tried (and QLs as well). First time I did them I was sore for days afterwards despite the fact that I did very minimal volume. If you want something rotational pallof presses exist, and you can actually overload those without any problems. The abs are hardly being worked at all on birddogs but either way there are tons of other ab exercises you can do.
            >little core muscles
            Name them

            Yeah but in the same sense as any other hip hinge. Shouldn't be using your lower back to move the weight but it strengthens it. I think bird dogs just get you better with bracing don't they?
            >Not the >>You btw also trans btw

            They could help as a bracing drill, I agree but I personally prefer doing ab wheel rollouts, those force you to brace hard as frick

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >They could help as a bracing drill
              Yeah my thinking is the same. I just do an roll-outs because I fricking hate the idea of having to sit in a dumb position in the same spot for progressively longer amounts of time

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah but in the same sense as any other hip hinge. Shouldn't be using your lower back to move the weight but it strengthens it. I think bird dogs just get you better with bracing don't they?
          >Not the >>You btw also trans btw

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          bird dogs are an anti rotation movement and work your body in the saggital plane. Extensions are nowhere near comparable.

          Bear crawls are the progression. You can also progress by touching your elbow to your knee then coming back into that position and going slowly, you can rep it out like this. You can also do shoulder taps and then when you become extremely good you can do same side arm and leg extension

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >bird dogs are an anti rotation movement and work your body in the saggital plane. Extensions are nowhere near comparable.
            Good thing I already gave you an anti-rotation exercise in my post (which you completely ignored for whatever reason) that can actually be overloaded like any other exercise

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              im a different poster because your post was so moronic it attracted the attention of more than one person.

              You did not offer anything in terms of anti rotation in that post. Lateral flexion is not anti rotation. Your obliques / transversospinalis muscles / transverse abdominis govern rotation, not your QL.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >You did not offer anything in terms of anti rotation in that post. Lateral flexion is not anti rotation. Your obliques / transversospinalis muscles / transverse abdominis govern rotation, not your QL.
                You have no reading comprehension then. Here you go

                You can do lateral flexions on a back extension, that trains the obliques better than pretty much anything else I've tried (and QLs as well). First time I did them I was sore for days afterwards despite the fact that I did very minimal volume. If you want something rotational pallof presses exist, and you can actually overload those without any problems. The abs are hardly being worked at all on birddogs but either way there are tons of other ab exercises you can do.
                >little core muscles
                Name them
                [...]
                They could help as a bracing drill, I agree but I personally prefer doing ab wheel rollouts, those force you to brace hard as frick

                >If you want something rotational pallof presses exist, and you can actually overload those without any problems.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                pallof presses, while a good exercise, are open chain. Closed chain exercises are far superior for rehab and prehab and preventing injury which is why they are the gold standard for physiotherapy. I would not recommend someone do pallof presses out of the gate without first building some core stability because externally loaded rotational forces are the exact forces that injure people. Pallof presses are also not anti rotation / eccentric exercises, they are concentric exercises, which also makes them bad for things like muscle growth / injury prevention.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Closed chain exercises are far superior for rehab and prehab and preventing injury
                Unilateral presses/pulls, perhaps one arm ring rows (inb4 too hard, bro just make your torso more vertical lol 80 year olds can do this shit). These are much more progressable. Sure birddogs are alright for rehab/prehab but ideally you want to strengthen the relevant musculature after the injury is dealt with, and birddogs simply don't have enough loading to produce significant adaptations
                >I would not recommend someone do pallof presses out of the gate without first building some core stability because externally loaded rotational forces are the exact forces that injure people.
                You could just use very minimal loads and build them up over time, but starting with birddogs in the case of an injury would probably work as well. Again, it isn't going to work super well long-term besides being used as a bracing drill.
                >Pallof presses are also not anti rotation / eccentric exercises, they are concentric exercises
                Pretty sure there's not supposed to be any movement at the trunk during pallof presses, you're supposed to keep it rigid. It would be an isometric exercise with a variable resistance curve (due to you changing the lever arm), similar to ab wheel rollouts.
                >which also makes them bad for things like muscle growth / injury prevention.
                Injury prevention nah, they build anti-rotation very well. Muscle growth I agree, you want dynamic movements for muscle growth, not isometric ones. The side bends on a 45 deg back extension would be much better for that (or if you want something rotational instead of lateral flexion, maybe do russian twists?)

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Bear crawls, planks with shoulder taps, and ipsilateral arm and leg extension are the proper progressions for bird dogs.

                Open chain exercises are bad for things like injury prevention and, according to recent studies, muscle growth.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Bear crawls, planks with shoulder taps, and ipsilateral arm and leg extension are the proper progressions for bird dogs.
                Again, I would rather do unilateral presses/pulls and hit two birds with one stone if I was going for anti-rotation. And don't give me the "open chain bad" shit, you can do calisthenics exercises here as well. This is more valid than birddogs alone however, but even then I have seen few people talk about progressions for birddogs, so your point becomes less relevant.
                >Open chain exercises are bad for things like injury prevention
                Completely false, I fixed many of my injuries with open chain exercises, as have many others.
                >according to recent studies, muscle growth.
                Also false, otherwise all bodybuilders would do only calisthenics exercises. This is not to say that calisthenics movements are bad, but they aren't necessarily superior either. I say this as someone with a ton of calisthenics movements in my own training (ring pushups, ring dips, pullups, chinups, nordic curls, sissy squats, hanging leg raises, front lever pulls, etc)

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34846050/
                The use of exercises in a closed kinematic chain and exercises in an eccentric mode reduces the Incidence rate ratio of shoulders among students - amateur climbers. The incidence rate ratio decreases in the intervention group for mild, moderate, and severe shoulder injuries.

                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3805008/
                In conclusion, CKC exercise for 6 weeks significantly improved dynamic balance of healthy adults, while OKC exercise produced a positive, but not significant improvement.

                Bodybuilders are on roids or are young. Not many natural (and roided for that matter) bodies survive programs built on open chain exercises.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >first link
                No comparison to open chain, irrelevant.
                >second link
                Closed chain will inherently have more carryover to balancing on one leg (assuming I'm understanding this correctly) because balance is already closed-chain, so all you're proving here is that specificity is king. I could be wrong here tho, I don't have time to go over the entire study.
                >Bodybuilders are on roids or are young. Not many natural (and roided for that matter) bodies survive programs built on open chain exercises.
                Plenty have, including myself. You won't find many bodybuilding programs that are made purely of closed-chain exercises. Ideally you want both open-chain and closed-chain, neglecting one or the other is poor practice.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Muscles can be strengthened through resistance training, which can be divided into open kinetic chain (OKC) and closed kinetic chain (CKC) exercises). Open kinetic chain exercise occurs when the movement allows the distal part of the limb to move freely while the proximal part is fixed. OKC exercise plays an important role in isolating individual muscle groups. It tends to generate more distraction and rotational forces and is often used with concentric muscle contraction). Closed kinetic chain exercise is a movement wherein the distal part is fixed, as when the sole of the foot makes contact with the ground or the exercise equipment. With the distal part fixed, movement at any one joint in the kinetic chain requires motion as well at the other joints in the kinetic chain. Thus both proximal and distal parts receive resistance training at the same time. In the case of the lower limb, CKC exercises are more functional, as weight bearing is, by definition, a closed kinetic chain activity of the lower limb. CKC exercise has been cited as producing superior eccentric contraction and co-contraction of muscles, as well as reducing shear forces while adding compressive forces to the joints, thereby enhancing joint stability)

                You're moronic. You can't even accept that you're wrong even in the face of evidence.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >You're moronic. You can't even accept that you're wrong even in the face of evidence.
                So every single fricking person involved in fitness is now wrong? We should throw all of our barbells and dumbbells into the trash and only do calisthenics, because calisthenics is supreme or some shit? This is the same fricking nonsense as HITgays who claim their method is the best, or any other group that claims that their method is the best - No one has the best fricking method for everyone, it doesn't exist, which is why I take what works and what doesn't. I use closed-chain exercises in my training, they're great, but I also use open-chain exercises, because I'm not a dogmatic frick who only does open chain movements or only does closed chain movements.
                >inb4 MUH STUDY SAYS XYZ
                Unless there's at least 10+ studies all in agreement I don't give a frick about your study, given the fact that we have all sorts of contradictory studies on all sorts of various things, not to mention that many of these studies cannot be reproduced at all.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >So every single fricking person involved in fitness is now wrong?
                Yes, demonstrably so. You have no idea what you're talking about. The study I posted above is well sourced. You were proven wrong. You have no idea what you're talking about. Read more, and quit paying attention to bodybuilders.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >ronnie coleman argument for the 100000th time
                For one thing. You are not ronnie coleman, shut the frick up. And secondly, going straight back into squats after a major surgery is never a good idea, do you really think it was fricking "open chain exercises" that fricked him up? And finally, squats are a fricking CLOSED CHAIN EXERCISE. You're hurting your own argument dumbass
                >Read more, and quit paying attention to bodybuilders.
                I dunno bro, I keep getting bigger and my joints keep getting more bulletproof. Am I following them incorrectly or what?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                ronnie coleman is the perfect example of what I'm trying to elucidate, the fact that you brought up that he's a complete fricking moron further solidifies my argument.

                You can be a complete fricking moron and build the best body the world has ever seen, it doesn't mean that your body is healthy. Please post the radiology reports of your hip shoulder and back MRIs, since you obviously know for a fact that you have bulletproof shoulders hips and back

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >You can be a complete fricking moron and build the best body the world has ever seen, it doesn't mean that your body is healthy.
                When did I ever say this? Lmao, of course doing dumb shit gets you injured. That's not the point, you're trying to say that ALL open chain exercises are shit, which is an outrageous claim that nobody supports because it's fricking moronic.
                >Please post the radiology reports of your hip shoulder and back MRIs, since you obviously know for a fact that you have bulletproof shoulders hips and back
                Well I don't know what to tell you since I'm not going to do that shit but I can do all the things that people say will make me go straight to snap city, such as:
                >ATG squats to failure, no knee pain or hip pain
                >Super deep RDLs with my back going well below parallel with the floor, no back pain
                >Behind the neck press with a close grip and full ROM, bar going all the way down to my upper traps. No shoulder pain.
                >Heavy barbell overhead extensions, no elbow pain (Ironically ez-bar and db extensions hurt my elbows even with light weight, funny how most people recommend those to get rid of pain. Strange)
                >Super deep ring pushups and ring dips, no pec tendon tendonitis or shoulder pain
                >Benching with dynamic scapular movement, no shoulder pain

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                lack of pain does not mean anything.

                Here's my radiology report of my hip that was operated on. This is actually a bulletproof hip. I want you to point out exactly why. Lets see if you actually possess knowledge, because there is a remarkable finding in this radiology report especially because the hip was previously operated on and there's a lot going on still in the hip.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >lack of pain does not mean anything.
                Oh so you're one of those fricks who believes that one day every joint in my body will spontaneously explode for no reason just because I did something that they didn't like. Guess what, that shit never happened in all my time here, and in all likelihood it will never happen.
                >but Muh Hip
                I don't care, if my hip has full functionality (can nearly do the front splits, full squats, cossack squats, good range on piriformis work, etc) and has no pain, I'm alright (Even better than alright, considering I have many exercises in my program that are dedicated to improving the functionality of my hips.) People's shit doesn't just explode randomly, there are almost always warning signs before an injury occurs. Therefore if I'm not feeling any pain, and I'm recovering well session to session, there's nothing to worry about. And even if there are issues somewhere, if there is no pain and it doesn't impede functionality, does it really matter? A very large section of the population have asymptomatic herniated disks over the age of 30, yet I don't see everyone going out to get back surgeries or whatever.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                You have no idea what you're talking about. 30% of patients presenting with an image like this report 0 pain. Obviously you're an idiot and probably don't know exactly what you're looking at here except for the fact that you can contextually discern that this is probably a bad looking knee.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >30% of patients presenting with an image like this report 0 pain.
                And do they do anything that would put load into the knee that would trigger pain if there were issues? I've had severe pain in various joints in the past, but the pain did not manifest whatsoever in daily life, only if load was applied to it (which didn't occur during daily life due to our modern lifestyles. Besides back issues, you can feel that constantly tbh). Obviously if we're talking about sedentary people who never load the joint, they can have fricked joints and never realize it, because they never load that joint thereby never experience pain. In my own training, if I ever feel aches or pains in a joint, I just do additional work to get lots of blood to the joint, and within weeks (or even days in some cases) the joint goes back to feeling great again.
                >y-you're joints will explode and y-you'll need surgery!
                Shut the frick up, I've fixed my knees more times than I can count (gave myself bad patellar tendonitis multiple times, first time was bad to the point of feeling a lot of pain just going down the stairs), my back once (had severe pain to the point of being unable to get out of my chair without shooting pains going through out), elbows a few times (left elbow still has minor issues, but it has been healing nicely), wrists a couple times, had two groin tweaks early in my training history but I've since resolved the root cause, shoulder pain a couple times (mostly my left shoulder for whatever reason), and pec tendonitis. I fixed every fricking one of those, and I didn't need any drugs or surgeries.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                https://i.imgur.com/FIFUey1.jpg

                You have no idea what you're talking about. 30% of patients presenting with an image like this report 0 pain. Obviously you're an idiot and probably don't know exactly what you're looking at here except for the fact that you can contextually discern that this is probably a bad looking knee.

                Aren't you weakening your own argument?
                If anything, the high prevalence of these same radiographic abnormalities in asymptomatic patients calls into question the effectiveness and need of surgical intervention in the first place, especially given the well-documented placebo effect for these surgeries:
                https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34616178/
                https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa013259

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                https://qz.com/1010259/the-100-billion-per-year-back-pain-industry-is-mostly-a-hoax

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >OKC
                >CKC
                Professional physio here.

                First time I've heard these terms and now I understand why because apparently:
                >push ups are CKC
                while
                >bench press (and so floor press) are OKC

                Woops! Another useless differentiator in the fitness industry. Color me the frick surprised.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >bench press (and so floor press) are OKC

                You're a physio and you don't understand the difference between a pushup and a bench press? Are you actually moronic?

  3. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I heard that they are supposed to be good for the multifidius muscles deep in your back. I tried doing a couple while holding a dumbbell in the stretched out hand, and you can definitely feel it in your core.

  4. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    just another DYEL with no gains spamming the muscles worked image of a random exercise
    wouldn't be surprised if it was the same tards that spammed the >does nothing lat pulldown threads

  5. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    it is a good starter for people who lack core/shoulder/hip strength and mobility, which is actually a lot of lifters. Remember that most lifting encourages only basically isometric holds for your core, which means a lot of lifters have shit core mobility, stability, and control outside these very specific postures used in lifting, which is usually just a straight/slightly arched back. Additionally, while lifters might have good shoulder or hip strength in certain lifts, that is only strength in a highly specific range of motion, outside of which they can seriously lack mobility and strength. Birddogging is good because it sends your shoulders and legs into extreme positions and also introduces an asymmetric load, which is an added bonus for stability. Asymmetry is important here--- you have to remember that most lifts have you doing perfectly symmetrical movements, which minimizes the stability challenge of an exercise and the extent to which the core is activated

    Birddogging is more about developing mobility, strengthening your end range in asymmetric movements, and running your core through a good range of motion. so it's not really meant to be a heavyweight high intensity exercise. It takes time to develop all these things

  6. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    *saves ur back*
    nothin personnel kids
    but I unironically haven't tweaked my back in almost two years after doing these daily
    just 6 reps during my warm up everyday and my back has been golden

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