Discipline & Pleasure

>Jordan Peterson: "Why would you ever be happy with yourself?"
>Andrew Huberman: "Never reward yourself after an effort."
>Jocko Willink: "Discipline is it's own reward."
>David Goggins: "Suffering is the true test of life."

What's up with all these extremely popular figures telling men that the only meaning of life is hard work itself? Why have we shifted from near total hedonism to the glorification of the "grindset" to an almost ascetic level? None of the figures I've admired in my life fell in those absolutisms, they all had balance and good priorities in common, and above all they were content with their lives and grateful for what they had. I perfectly understand the thirst for self-development the youth has but it overall feels like a ploy to keep them miserable; "You are not a man/You will not be happy/You won't find meaning until you do X, Y and Z permanently with zero external desires.". When you take a step back it's honestly baffling how little a man needs to feel complete: a healthy body through diet, sleep and exercise, a safe community, a good relationship and ultimately a chance to develop his interests. I don't see the point of eternally despising your current self in the pursuit of an idealized future when it's perfectly compatible to enjoy the present while working towards something better.

Oh and, what's your favorite curl variation.

  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Well said.

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    The leg curl is my favourite

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      woah hey that's cheating

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Reverse curl for those juicy brachiodalis gains.

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Can't get enough bicep curls. Might be cliche but they're fun. Angled skull crushers are pretty fun too imo

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Ah, finally a topic I can chime in on. It's because of
    a) corporate interest to pump those numbers
    b) a decline in new workers (aka wagies) to keep the current economy running

    The economy has been tanking across the world, the only thing up is the stock market, basically the playground of virtual abstract money for billionaires to show off for each other. The general populace is bled so dry by now that they have no money to spend and no time to consoom anymore, so the easiest solution is to make already overworked and underpaid people work even more, and tell them they should just take pride in that, without a reward even.

    These figureheads you named, and a ton more (motivation youtubers, especially to the youth like that Hamza dude) are machiavellian mindset people with charisma who just do motivation porn for young dudes because zoomers are such a post-nihilism lost generation that they have no idea what to do and the thought of "if I just work enough, I might, maybe, hopefully, will be happy some day" is genuinely amazing to them.

    Union workers fought tooth and nail for the few rights people have in countries like America and corporations have succeeded at making people think that these few rights are obsolete and a sign of laziness.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >muh unions
      lol, that's why the average quality of living kept rising throught the last 100 years in america right? Tooth and nail my ass, no one can afford a house in this day and age.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        medieval peasants worked less and had more vacations than you

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >medieval peasants
          Go live like one and you too can not work half the year, be drunk all the time, and live your best life. All you need is a cuckshack on your masters land so you can work his fields. You'll get paid in gruel, beer, and clothes, with a small amount of the crop which you may sell to procure some coin.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I literally would do it if I had the means to do that

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Says a pincushion like vaxriddled mutant globo homo test patient

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Sounds better than sharing an 2 bedroom appartement with 10 people, eating slop, and working 3/4 the year for money that progressively becomes more and more worthless by the day. Also most peasants owned their land, and just paid taxes to their lord and king. what you described is a serf which were a minority of people from that era. I’m unironically saving so I can buy my own land a go peasant mode right now. Home grown Grain, peas, onions, homemade beer, wild fish, game and a bunch of kids sounds pretty nice tbqh.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          They also lived in shacks sharing a room with 3 other people and starved for six months out of the year.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          here you go
          reddit.com

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        You can thank mass immigration and unlimited money printing for that decline.

        It happened in spite of unions, not because of them.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >the only thing up is the stock market
      pic related
      >The general populace is bled so dry by now that they have no money to spend and no time to consoom anymore
      objectively untrue, hell its pretty much the opposite, people could be rich as a motherfucker if they would stop consooming

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >rich people who invest their wealth quadrupled their money since 2010
        >wages didn't even rise with inflation in that time
        >capital gains tax is lower than the lowest income tax rates and there's still a million loopholes to avoid paying it
        gee I wonder why young people with nothing are giving up

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    imagine reading anything said by a "self improvement guru"

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >I take life advice from a dude that looks like a 70 years old version of G-Man

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >and sounds like Kermit thee frog

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >and has drug problems

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Your missing father figure is being filled up with positive role models and you’re in the bargaining stage. It’s not supposed to be easy.

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >I take life advice

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >on the internet
      Men should be getting life advice from
      A. Their father
      B. Older and wise male figures in life
      That’s it. The rise of single moms and staying at home playing video games has contributed greatly to the rise of internet dads like Jordan Peterson telling teen incels to clean their room

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        if you don't trust yourself with being able to decide whats best for you maybe you should transition and let your husband decide instead gay

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Found the fatherless incel

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            found the "adult" male who shamelessly seeks guidance from his elderly father before making important decisions

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              >found the "adult" male who shamelessly seeks guidance from his elderly father before making important decisions
              Yes. Because my father is older and wiser than me and we have a mutual love and respect for eachothers well being. He’s not elderly btw.
              I truly feel bad you’ll never experience the same and you feel forced to wander on your own throughout life convincing yourself you’re some kind of alpha lone wolf for not having anyone to turn to in uncertain times.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Yes. Because my father is older and wiser than me
                your father is guaranteed to be older, not guaranteed to be wiser
                people's hormone levels drop as they age, your father is likely to advise you tame shit despite having been wild in his own youth simply because his hormones have dropped
                >convincing yourself you’re some kind of alpha lone wolf
                I made zero claims to being an alpha lone wolf, take your meds

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >your father is guaranteed to be older, not guaranteed to be wiser people's hormone levels drop as they age, your father is likely to advise you tame shit despite having been wild in his own youth simply because his hormones have dropped
                Absolutely retarded argument not even worth responding to. The cope is massive.
                >I made zero claims to being an alpha lone wolf, take your meds
                Ah, so you are a fatherless incel. Glad we got that cleared up.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Absolutely retarded argument not even worth responding to. The cope is massive.
                >the mental and physical decline in old men does not exist
                Not him, but you are ignoring some very normal and natural things in life.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >calls argument retarded without any counterpoints
                >proceeds to ad hominem
                maybe you should bring over your dad so he can share his better knowledge fagboy

                Samefag absolutely seething lmao

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >everyone that disagrees with me is a chud, incel, garden gnome, moron, schizo, fatherless and a samefag
                touche grasse

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Have sex.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >calls argument retarded without any counterpoints
                >proceeds to ad hominem
                maybe you should bring over your dad so he can share his better knowledge fagboy

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >calls argument retarded without any counterpoints
                >proceeds to ad hominem

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Based and fatherpilled. Same here bro. All of these sodomites are simply jealous, took me some time to figure it out.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              What a sad life you must live. My Dad passed four years ago and I wish I could still talk to him even for a few minutes some days.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                I'm sure your dad is up in heaven proud of your obsessing over his death after four whole years and not moving on, what a happy life you must live.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >obsessing
                Ok, it’s obvious you’re a 14 year old troll with no father.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                complaining about your father's demise (which happened four years ago) to online strangers that live in different continents, unsolicited

                that seems pretty obsessive to me

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                You don’t speak English as a first language do you? Or are you literally retarded? You use words without knowing the meaning of them and exaggerate what I am saying. It seems you were most likely molested by your father and that’s why you have such deep resentment towards people in this thread who had good relationships with their Dads. Get help Anon.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >you have such deep resentment towards people in this thread who had good relationships with their Dads
                I have no problem with people having healthy relationships with their fathers, if you're a man aged 20 or older and cannot make life decisions without the guidance of your father then perhaps you failed to grow into an autonomous adult and still live like a child

                even worse is knowing some of you retards are going to idealize your dads thinking they know best, then three years down the line make a mistake listening to your father and find yourself in utter shock when you realize you're the only person responsible for your actions regardless of whose advice you sought

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                You are very mean, and have a repulsive vibe, personality judging from your comments.

                Ofc you don't have to care about my opinion,and I don't have to care about yours, yet we are still here.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                I don't care about your opinion

                personally I'm disgusted by death fetishism, the idea that they would lock my dead corpse in a coffin, bury it six feet deep, slap a gravestone on it and potentially visit it later on is simply weird, death is a natural part of all life and you're supposed to move on from it, I'm not saying don't feel sad about losing someone, I'm just saying don't drag it for unhealthy durations

                >inb4 you're 12 and never lost anyone
                yes I did lose relatives and friends in the past and I felt like shit about it

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                not that guy but seriously anon you come off as ridiculously aggressive about this. for someone who doesn't care what people think you really are making some loud posts about it.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              Your dad must fucking suck, sorry bro. I have a whole ass family and still ask my dad for advice.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Pure hubris, you don't know everything nor do you have the time to single-handedly learn every aspect of life, you need trusty figures of competence.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            because figures of competence understand whats good for you better than you understand it yourself

            you need to grow up and realize no one knows everything, no one also has the time to sungle handledly learn every aspect of life, you know your goals better and you know your capabilities and morals better than anyone else would, stop trying to keep up with other men's ideals you insecure gay

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              >No one knows anything but I can figure it all out myself
              Lol you sound like a pre teen girl

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                reading competence

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                That’s literally what you’re saying though. Just because I made it breif doesn’t mean you don’t sound like a pre teen girl. It’s you who needs to grow up.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >no one knows anything but at least you know yourself and your own goals
                >wow did you just say you know the best and everyone else is dumb? teehee
                rope cope and dilate

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >no one knows anything but at least you know yourself and your own goals
                Not what you were saying at all gay nice goalpost moving

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                because figures of competence understand whats good for you better than you understand it yourself

                you need to grow up and realize no one knows everything, no one also has the time to sungle handledly learn every aspect of life, you know your goals better and you know your capabilities and morals better than anyone else would, stop trying to keep up with other men's ideals you insecure gay

                >you know your goals better and you know your capabilities and morals better than anyone else would
                that is exactly what I've said in the first place you inbred illiterate monkey

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >you know your goals better and you know your capabilities and morals better than anyone else would
                I like how you left out
                >you need to grow up and realize no one knows everything, no one also has the time to sungle handledly learn every aspect of life
                So basically
                >no one knows anything but I can figure it all out for myself cause I’m a special snowflake. I’m the main character in life and everyone else is just an NPC in the way who just will never get me.
                Again, teenage girl mentality LMAO. Grow up for real.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >So basically
                no retard no basically, you can't speak in my place and turn aroud and say "aha you said something retarded!"
                when I say NO ONE knows everything I meant NO ONE, that means NOT A SINGLE person and it doesn't exclude myself or anyone else

                actually read a book you illiterate monkey

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >you can't speak in my place and turn aroud and say "aha you said something retarded!"
                I can actually. It’s call deducing. You’re just mad it makes you look retarded, and rightfully so.
                >actually read a book you illiterate monkey
                I guarantee I read more than you.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >I can actually. It’s call deducing. You’re just mad it makes you look retarded, and rightfully so.
                its called a strawman, you're refuting points I haven't even made and you're borderline talking to yourself you manic loser

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >its called a strawman, you're refuting points I haven't even made and you're borderline talking to yourself you manic loser
                Wrong. Not a strawman. I’ve quoted every point you made. You’re the one constantly changing your argument every time I called it retarded. You’re seething and responding to me a lot despite me talking to myself, that’s funny. Here’s another (You) because this is amusing.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >I’ve quoted every point you made
                you've quoted things I haven't said or even hinted at, I not only quoted my own post I also rephrased it in a more basic manner since your monkey brain has zero reeading comprehension

                you're utterly delusional to the point you're not only refuting a piece of TEXT as if I hadn't posted it, you're also insisting on acting like I've said something entirely different instead of responding to my initial statement

                take your meds retard

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >also rephrased it in a more basic manner since your monkey brain has zero reeading comprehension
                Yeah you changed your argument lol. Funny how when I rephrase what you say it’s wrong but when you do it’s right. Almost like you’re a bitch who can’t stick to what you say.
                >you're utterly delusional to the point you're not only refuting a piece of TEXT as if I hadn't posted it
                Calm down with the REDDIT CAPS. We’re on a message board where typing posts is the whole point. How am I supposed to not refute the text you posted you fucking retard?

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              >because figures of competence understand whats good for you better than you understand it yourself
              That is very often the case and one of the hallmarks of humanity itself, we are creatures of knowledge who depend on its correct transmission.
              >you need to grow up and realize no one knows everything
              Never claimed that.
              >you know your goals better and you know your capabilities and morals better than anyone else would
              You misinterpret what I said, only you can know through introspection what your goals are, but said goals have to be materialized through actions that many others have already explored and know better than you thanks to experience.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Honestly a great post in a great thread. What’s happening to this basket weaving forum? It’s becoming good?’

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Pure hubris, you don't know everything nor do you have the time to single-handedly learn every aspect of life, you need trusty figures of competence.

        No one knows anything about anything, yourself included. The sooner you accept that the better.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          How do you know that?

  10. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because you are not listening to what they are saying, and then failing to interpret what is written.
    The goal of discipline is to force yourself to do things, and feel good about that. With the added benefit that you gain the ability to dig yourself out of your own grave, something most people are incapable of doing because they live static lives trying to avoid suffering.

    The data its derived from is different for each of those popular life gurus, but fundamentally it boils down to the same problem:
    It you could just give yourself a reward, why do the thing and not skip straight to the reward? This has been studied for fucking ages, and it turns out group animals care more for the validation than the reward, so the reward is in itself meaningless unless its small enough.

  11. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >intentionally misquotes
    Stopped reading here

  12. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Most terminally online young men that look to TikToks for their father figure feel hopelessly hedonistic and self loathing, it’s only natural that they find meaning in the pursuit of the other extreme. Being frank, not one of them successfully follows this advice and manages to live without worldly desire, but by striving for it they do improve some aspects of their lives, which is enough to keep them believing in it.

  13. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Jordan Peterson is a joke of a man so if he's saying it I can safely disregard it

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      cope and seethe

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >clean your house
      >NO!
      Lel

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Who here /hasacleanroom/ ? I can't stand un unclean room, keeping everything neat and tidy makes even the cheapest studio apartment so much nicer, it's like yiur room goes up in value from being a $250 a week place to a $450 a week place instantly.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          what benefit do you derive from having a tidy room aside from the benefit of finding things easier?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            It's like checking in to hotel room every day except it's comfy and is your home. If you don't understand the aesthetic pleasure of a clean room then try cleaning your room and keeping it tidy for a week and you will see what I mean.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              hotel rooms are nice because you don't live there, if you see the same landscape every day it tends to get boring

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Time to fuck up my room so I see a different space everyday

                Yeah nah, clean your room anon.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                I wasn't advising anyone to mess up their room so it looks different everyday but now that you've mentioned it...

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Well my autistic brain loves waking up in the same room in the same order year after, with the exact same breakfast and routine every day of my life. But that's just me anon, you do you.

  14. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I know right? Working is for suckers and I'm perfect the way God made me. If you disagree then miss me with that fat phobic incel talk

  15. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    because it sells

  16. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    They are running counter to the decline they see in their own society.
    How hard is it to understand?

  17. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I just want to fucking work less, bros...

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Same brother. Unfortunately, there are two options. Have a family and work more before you can work less. Or go out innawoods or streets alone.

  18. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    According to Aristotle to be disciplined is to attain the state of arete, where the things that lead to you flourishing are things that:

    1.You know that they are the thing you should do.

    2. You do it.

    3. You want to do it.

    a disciplined person wants to workout, to hone their craft, to go to bed early and so forth.

    Now they are right in that there ought to be some pleasure in suffering, since the highest purpose of men is pursuing meaning and suffering is part of that, but they are wrong they are wrong to think that life should have no pleasure, Aristotle would likewise say that to be self denying is also a vice (an excess of the virtue of self moderation).

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      A child wants to learn and ask questions, they want to be active and run around, they want to do the things they should do. What fucked us up?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Well you can't sell physical activity and knowledge to kids like you can mcdonalds and videogames. It's gotten to the point where saying you like physical activity, learning and challenging yourself needs some dense philosophical justification, whereas for nihilistic hedonism no justification is required. I don't like the feeling of being drunk or stoned, but I love the challenge of riding up a mountain on my mountain bike (it feels like i'm slaying a dragon), but to most people being drunk is inherrently pleasurable and exercise is no different to physical pain. We've been brainwashed.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >It's gotten to the point where saying you like physical activity, learning and challenging yourself needs some dense philosophical justification
          because people beat you the fuck up if you lift without sucking on socrates' cock right? zoomers can't do anything unless someone somewhere said "le thing good"

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            No, it's never explicitly stated, but try asking a friend or family member what it means to have a good time and whether exercise is pleasurable. most will say a good time is food and alcohol and exercise is a necessary evil. Ask a younger sibling what their idea of a good time is and they will probably say playing fortnite or cod, with junkfood in the mix.
            It's not some totalitarian dictator breathing down your neck, it's a notion implicitly imbedded into every aspect of our culture but never explicitly stated so that people are made self conscious when they don't conform, but also that whenever it's called out gays like you can pretend it doesn't exist since it has plaisible deniability.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              "Hey what's fun?"
              >Idk fun things?
              "WHY AREN'T YOU SAYING WORK?"
              Anon you're a retard. Ask them what they think is a meaningful activity and you'll see a different answer.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >going for a bike ride is work
                >reading a book is work

                Work is pleasure in and of itself but that's not what i'm referring to.

                Also don't you think there is also marketing for videogames, netflix weed and alcohol? Of the two which is greater? The self improvement marketing is a niche counterculture in comparison.

                Also I didn't base my argument in terms david groggins or peterson or whoever the fuck is popular now. I based it in terms of virtue ethics.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Work is pleasure in and of itself
                success is the pleasure derived from work, you wouldn't be lifting if you knew you would 100% not get any return for your invested time

                >The self improvement marketing is a niche counterculture in comparison
                you're using self improvement in a very specific sense, getting an education and moving up in your career is also self improvement by definition, except those achievements have a much higher value impact on your life than lifting funny shaped rocks.

                Lifting is work through lifting and pleasure through gains, and like I've said its impacts on your life aren't greatly comparable to more material things in life, which is why its niche, you don't need more than basic fitness to carry groceries and you most likely don't do anything harder than carrying groceries, the biggest return is the physical appearance improvement (and some minor blood/heart improvement if you're not lifting too heavy) which doesn't really matter if you're simply happy with how you look

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                fair point, not all kinds of work are pleasures in and of themselves, however for some people physical activity and the overcoming of adversity and feeling of power makes it a pleasure in and of itself, even if it might not be worth it alone. I find doing one handed pushups pleasurable for these reasons but wouldn't do them if there were no extrinsic benefit, however when it comes to martial arts and sparing I do it for the practice itself.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                thats fair, I also forgot about endorphins so I guess lifting is somewhat pleasure in and of itself

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              if you need validation and affirmation for your personal hobbies that don't even involve the participation of another person you are a weak minded idiot

              might be shocking to you but when you decide to go lifting, your participation exclusively affects you and no one else, you are the only person getting any benefits or drawbacks. If your mind somehow concludes that you need affirmation for doing so, you're a gay and should probably take hrt (or a niner in the cranium) instead of lifting

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >might be shocking to you but when you decide to go lifting, your participation exclusively affects you and no one else, you are the only person getting any benefits or drawbacks
                Not that guy but this is partially wrong, actions ripple beyond their immediate effects in social circles, you may for example inspire someone to start lifting too or join a group of lifters and make it even better.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >you may for example inspire someone to start lifting too or join a group of lifters and make it even better
                thats like learning literature history so you can teach literature history, and then inspire others to become literature history teachers

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Didn't mean it as an absolute, that's why I said partially, just saying we often do things thinking they're purely individual when in some invisible sense they might shape our environments too.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >just saying we often do things thinking they're purely individual when in some invisible sense they might shape our environments too
                sure, doesn't really relate to what I was arguing though. If you choose to smoke, cut off your finger, stick a needle inside your left eyeball or anything else which has no direct effect on me, then you need not my affirmation for doing those things, nor do you need to listen to my criticism should I direct you any

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >If you need validation to do right acts you are insecure

                Yes and that is on the individual to fix, but that's not my point.

                Imagine that everyone says that chocolate is good . In your life, your whole society and culture tells you this ever since you were born. You feel tired and gross when you eat it, but it gives some kind of nice taste in your mouth, so chocolate is good right? There's no one that doesn't like chocolate.

                My point is that there is a kind of water in that is our assumptions about what's good, that you often can't see because we're grown up totally immersed in it. This is pretty obvious with fat people who think that downing sodas and junk food all day is the good life.

                check out david Foster Wallaces this is water speech. I'm saying that the water in iur that constitutes our society (the default perceptual lens we grow up with as citizens in a hedonistic consumerist society) warps our perception of what living a good life looks like.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >so chocolate is good right?
                its completely up to you to also formulate your opinions, public forms are formulated through the combination of individuals and shouldn't be the other way around

                >This is pretty obvious with fat people who think that downing sodas and junk food all day is the good life
                I doubt even 1% of the fat population thinks they're healthy, the point of the fat positive movement (which I'm assuming you're thinking about) is that people don't want to get slack for being fat, they understand (albeit sometimes deny) the unhealthiness of it and they're fine with that, and they feel attacked when someone goes out of their way to remind them that being fat is bad

                not to argue that I support the fat positive movement, but its their body and their responsibility to take care of it, same as how I choose to lift weights on my own volition

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >I doubt even 1% of the fat population thinks they're healthy, the point of the fat positive movement (which I'm assuming you're thinking about) is that people don't want to get slack for being fat, they understand (albeit sometimes deny) the unhealthiness of it and they're fine with that, and they feel attacked when someone goes out of their way to remind them that being fat is bad

                not to argue that I support the fat positive movement, but its their body and their responsibility to take care of it, same as how I choose to lift weights on my own volition

                More broadly speaking though 70% of Americans are overweight, imagine what the water looks like for those people. for many of them they have a earped understaning of what healthy food is. Many think that "healthy food" tastes gross and put it in a separate category to just food, ( even though potatoes, oats chicken breast and so forth really are just food). consider what Americans in 50 years from now will consider the good life in respect to their diet and physical lifestyle if the obesity trend continues.

                Everyone is responsible for their own life, but if a child grows up in a society where being overweight and eating processed food is where pleasure comes from and is normal that becomes their life, since as I said they are ao immersed in the water that they can't see it.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >It's gotten to the point where saying you
          No, it hasn't, you fucking idiot. No one cares what you do in the fucking slightest. YOU feel the need to make that justification because you don't want to admit that you've fallen into the same exact "lifestyle marketing" that they have.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Based virtue ethics anon.
      I'm going to crack open my copy of the Nicomachean Ethics that I haven't touched since college.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Nice.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/dug3YEQ.jpg

        Nice.

        >Nicomachean Ethics
        I've never read it, does it hold up well today? I really enjoyed Meditations for a basic intro on stoicism. Nicomachean Ethics sounds interesting.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Personally I learned about it when I did Ethics in Uni. It not only holds up it's one of the three major schools of morality in modern philosophy today (along with consequentialism and deontology).

          It gives a very solid and practical outlook to life that avoids the extremes you can find with other philosophies so it's definitely wprth checking out. That being said though Aristotle is really hard to read and you probably won't glean the concept just from reading him, so I'd recommend looking up some philsophy lectures on virtue ethics by professors on youtube. If you have worked for a living and lived in the real world the whole parts about eudaimonia abd mastering a skill read like common sense. I don't reccommend those shitty 10 minute bite philpspphy vids because they don't explain the full concept.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Sounds awesome, I'm going to go a head and pick it up. I took a few philosophy courses during undergrad, so I have a basic understanding of some concepts. Thanks.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            If I wanted to make sure nothing goes over my head, is there a book which analyzes Nicomachean Ethics? Like where the author goes over the original and adds his own analysis or commentary? I'm looking around and can't quite find one, which is odd considering how popular it is.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              As I said lectures on yiutube would be the starting point, but for specific readings I would recommend Chapter 18 of the Oxford handbook of ethical Theory. It underlies the core concepts and gives a jumping off point for understanding virtue ethics as a system of ethics that can be reconciled with modern science and psychology.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                I'll browse around and start with that. Thanks again.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          If you liked Meditations you will like the Ethics.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      This is as simple as it gets. Unfortunately the reality is much more difficult; I went through a period of time in my life where I was able to live this way and it felt incredible, but I also had a part time job, no gf, and no bills. I have a wife now, full time work, a body to maintain, and suddenly the equation is no longer as simple as "just do the thing."

      That doesn't mean it's impossible. Far from it. But the true face of wisdom is not in asceticism; man is a social animal, and neglecting society is neglecting our nature. It's truly difficult to find peace inside the swirling mass of humanity but the challenge and the reward is worth it.

  19. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Autism (Single focus), overcompensation, image obsession from social media

  20. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Leg curls

    Firstly I think your are misinterpreting them and that if they were to read this they would agree with you. Secondly, the less internet I use the better I feel. I grew up a geek who spent a lot of time on the internet (still went out and had fun mind you) but now it's the reverse, a good day is a day where I haven't touched screens except for making something or learning, a day spent in the real world, hopefully with other people that I love, hopefully in a natural setting either a mountain or a beach, for example yesterday I was out on a hike and rested under this big pine tree and spent literally 10 minutes just observing my surroundings, there is something magical about living once you realize all it's incredible detail, no screen usage and it's perks could ever replace those 10 minutes, do you know how many hours I've wasted away with youtube videos? Do you know how many of them I remember? Do you that in my memory bank that even compares to those 10 minutes under the pine tree? Point is, shut off your screens, focus on what's around you, focus on what is actually real, escaping your anxieties with youtube father figures isn't going to lead anywhere unless you actually escape the screen itself.
    As a tip I've gotten those earpods so I can spend more time listening instead of watching,

  21. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Discipline & Pleasure
    Is that the sequel to Discipline & Punish?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      I think its two specific aspects of BDSM, not sure

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      You're on to something, Lacan

  22. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >When you take a step back it's honestly baffling how little a man needs to feel complete: a healthy body through diet, sleep and exercise, a safe community, a good relationship and ultimately a chance to develop his interests
    Because all those things are increasing in scarcity and only those who really push themselves are going to make it.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >all those things are increasing in scarcity
      I disagree, it's all right there for the taking, the only barriers are in our minds. I know this is the land of blackpills but I truly believe it's all a mindset.

  23. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >What's up with all these extremely popular figures telling men that the only meaning of life is hard work itself?
    Ever heard of Puritans? Cathars? Protestants? Welcome to a socialist society, where being a cog in the machine is the goal.

  24. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    The true meaning of life is to be accomplished, and happy.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Accomplishment is continuous. There is no finish line

  25. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    All the people you mentioned are internet grifters. They are people who have made their nut giving people generic advice over the internet.

    Why would they tell you "You should be happy and grateful for what you have"? How does telling anyone that add another dollar to their pocket?

  26. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >What's up with all these extremely popular figures telling men that the only meaning of life is hard work itself?
    Why are all of these establishment steam valves telling disaffected people they need to put more into the system?
    gee

  27. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >peterson is a drug addict that can't even apply his own philosophies to his whore of a daughter
    >huberman is a retard that recommends showers and saunas 3-5x a day as a part of a "workout and wellness" routine
    >willink and goggins are just overly dramatic and pretentious military cucks

    these people are mostly talking out of their ass and have nothing good to pass on, all snake oil salesmen scamming a generation of children raised by single moms. also, standing barbell curls.

  28. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Discipline is it's own reward.
    There you have it
    I feel bad if I dont go to the gym/work on myself in some way any day
    Ofc everyone (except maybe goggins) has some fun and rewards themselves with little treats here and then but the point is you should work on yourself every day

  29. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I like tricep curls

  30. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >feel content with yourself
    >stop working out
    >become sad sack of shit
    Do you seriously not understand?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      philosophical reasoning (of this kind) is honestly retarded considering how deeply we understand how the brain works nowadays

  31. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    You're a degenerate worthless subhuman and so were the models you looked up to. 100 years from now we will have exterminated every single one of you. 200, and there will no longer be a single trace left that you have ever existed.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >we
      we who

  32. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    It's literally true though.As a man,you need little more as a reward than the warm hug of your wife and kid after finally getting home,playing with your son while she cooks you a meal etc.In the age where everything can be bought and experienced in a bottled and momentary way,having meaningful relationships with your family is a literal treasure.I feel sad with the fact that at some point I'll have to teach my son about the harshness of discipline,but for now my biggest reward is that one day raise him into a good man.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      also reverse curl gives a fucking godly pump but chin ups are cool in it's own way too

  33. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >What's up with all these extremely popular figures telling men that the only meaning of life is hard work itself?
    1. accomplishing something that matters actually does feel good and makes you feel good
    2. it's a great way to get free labour out of wagies
    3. it allows you to tell yourself a story about you're "hard" and everyone else is "soft" so that you can feel special

    In short it's just masochism but without even the fun sexual element.

  34. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    It's an extreme opposite reaction to the comfort and hedonism lifestyle. So many men and people in general, are doing the whole - reward yourself, or spoil yourself with modern pleasures, just for being a basic functioning adult.
    When you have a society full of these people, there will obviously be a counter-culture that spawns organically to add a new edge to those that want to escape the dull pleasure-seeker lifestyle.

  35. 2 months ago
    Anonymous
  36. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    After years of being into "self improvement", I came to the realization that most people would probably "self improve" more by intentionally NOT getting involved in this community. It's full of scam artists selling online courses and insecure fake alphas pumping up their own egos. But also if you think about it, doing things to "self improve" is kinda cringe. Can you imagine someone you perceive as high value unironically watching motivational videos? It's much less cringe and more natural to be completely clueless about self improvement and just start doing things like lifting or starting a business for fun/challenge, that's actually what truly high value people do.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      1.Bait.
      2. (In case people are still reading this dead thread) growth v.s fixed mindset. succesful people have the former thus you are wrong.

      this is the first time in several months i've been on IST since i've been studying ( It's the holidays now and I came here for info) So i'm justified insaying yiu should get off IST and do something with yiur life instead of makingbthese demoralising bait threads. I won't be replying anymore but you should do something better with your time.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        1. I'm not OP
        2. I'm not telling people that they shouldn't do things that self improovers advocate for, in fact many of them are beneficial and you should do them. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't do them as part of "self improvement", but arrive at them through more natural means, so to speak. You'd figure out that getting jacked is a good thing anyway if you get out in the real world enough, you don't need some scam artist guru on the internet to tell you that.

  37. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >that the only meaning of life is hard work itself?
    Because there's a little thing in your brain called delayed gratification and it feels real fucking good when that fucker starts working.
    It's not something that happens right away, that's why it's *delayed* gratification. You'll get it when you become a man.

  38. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Most people are fat fucks with no drive. That is why a lot of people benefit from such advice.
    Suffering and grinding is my default so I actually reached enlightenment by doing the opposite (and became more productive because I wasn't crippling myself with anxiety).

  39. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    These men range from morons to pseudo-intellectuals at best are all trying to sell you a brand of macho bullshit. Take the Spinoza pill: "It is the part of a wise man, I say, to refresh and restore himself in moderation with pleasant food and drink, with scents, with the beauty of green plants, with decoration, music, sports, the theater, and other things of this kind, which anyone can use without injury to another." Also, hammer curl with fat grips.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Better yet, how about you reject the faliures that are philosophycels and read the bible

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Interesting point

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Please go on. Enlighten

  40. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    To some extent this. Always Self improve, but dont make it your mission.

    After years of work i finally am were i want. And all i think about now is in having more.
    Not that bad, but we should be happy for what we achieve while we try to be more.

  41. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >he hasn't taken the bronzepill

    I felt the same way OP. Peterson and the others are right about clean your room and get IST but ultimately all these guys have the end goal of these efforts being to work yourself to death to support a fat pig wife and moron socialism through our bloated government. This is the philosophy you're looking for anon, leave behind manosphere nerds and embrace nudist terrorism

    https://pdflake.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Bronze-Age-Mindset-PDF.pdf

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Jumping through all those hoops just so you can be gay

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        somebody's a little defensive about the supporting a fat pig wife bit
        >b-but if you don't wanna marry a fat cow it m-must be because you're gay!!!

  42. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    because they are correct
    > pic rel
    The purpose of ones life is to struggle and get closer to god. We were put on this earth to go through trails and overcome them, as a result building our souls.

    You know what to do to make a man utterly depressed and suicidal? Relieve him of all hardships. Provide him with everything he will need or want without having to ask or work for it, remove any sort of challenge in his life. That is the man who will become so utterly depressed and empty, that man will become an utter shell of a human being.

    That is why those people promote suffering and difficult situations, as those build your character.

  43. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    For me, it’s hammer curls.

  44. 2 months ago
    Sage

    I take inspiration from one person

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