>eliminates all back pain in less than 10 minutes a day Posted on February 23, 2023 by Anonymous >eliminates all back pain in less than 10 minutes a day
the simpsons already did this
>eliminates all back pain in 3 sets once a week
That seems like an incredibly dumb exercise to do and leads to backpain if done wrong or pushed too hard.
You've clearly never done it then, it's pretty much the penultimate exercise for bulletproofing your back while making your spinal erectors jacked as fuck. I go to failure (or at least 1 RIR) on every set and I have no issues. Currently doing +35kg bar on back
I'll see you in 10 years begging for relief.
>y-you'll get injured!
You haven't even explained how exactly back extensions are bad for your back, so go ahead, try to construct a good argument. And besides, if they're bad for your back then dead hangs are also bad, considering the fact that back extensions decompress your spine at the bottom of the lift (effect becomes more pronounced the more load you use, since the weight actively decompresses your spine at the bottom).
And by the way, I was already begging for relief before I started doing these. Fucking back was hurting doing literally anything, just standing up out of a chair would send shooting pains through my back. After I started working these in, my back pain has completely disappeared, and I can do whatever exercise I want while experiencing 0 pain whatsoever.
I have constant back pain. Multiple docs can't find anything structurally wrong with me.
I will try weighted back extensions. Thank you.
You do them 3 sets to failure?
do not do them to failure and if you do them weighted keep it light, 25lbs-45lbs. You're going for fatigue, not failure.
Bad advice, you won't adapt from doing tons of sets with 10 reps in reserve. You want to load this exercise just like any other, but of course the weight you'll be using will be much less due to the very disadvantageous leverages. Just don't egolift and you'll be fine.
if you're going for a therapeutic effect to reduce pain and improve posture, you do not in fact benefit from going to failure. The goal to reduce pain and swelling is from improving blood flow to the area and get the muscles more active to improve posture, going to failure is only going to put you at greater risk for an acute on chronic injury. Once the back pain has improved after several weeks, then you can "go to failure" to strengthen the muscle further but even though I don't recommend going to failure on back extensions, anyway.
i would start off without weights and ease into it especially considering your back pain but it’s a top tier exercise
Better to do them fully horizontal on a GHD or roman chair. 45 degree back extensions are shit but if they are the best you've got them you make due. Treat it a bit like an RDL back extensions are basically the ultimate hip hinge movement. Down slowly until you feel a stretch in the hamstrings and then explode up squeezing the glutes. Complete posterior chain building exercise. I do them multiple times a day as I have my own GHD and I would never pull heavy or squat heavy or really even ever lift without doing 3 sets of horizontal back extensions in my warmup. Really ensures that the glutes and low back are firing and that my bracing will be sufficient to protect my spine.
Anyone talking shit on back extensions is a troll. Literally the #1 exercise to combat all the detrimental effects skeletal anduscualr from the modern sedentary lifestyle. If there is only 1 thing you have the time to do at the gym it should be back extensions.
>then explode up squeezing the glutes
Bad idea if he's currently rehabbing and new to doing them, might cause more issues than it helps.
True I definitely was more describing the ideal form. Feel the stretch in hamstrings at the bottom then explode up and hold yourself at the top with glutes and low back/erectors. I love going to a 2 way mirror after several sets of 90 degree back extensions and practicing mind muscle connection isolating just my spinal erectors in the mirror. Try it sometime you can see some freaky shit.
I get insane pumps and work on my erectors glutes and hamstrings with 90 degree back extensions. I make sure I can basically have my body at maximum range of motion bent 45 degrees at the bottom though and feel the stretch in my hamstrings and explode up from the hamstrings but maybe I am just trained for this from. I just never feel like 45 degree backextensions do ANYTHING for me and they even make me want to do shit form like rounding my upper back to go lower where I can't do that with 90 degree. But yeah this is ultimately likely just personal preference. I don't think 45 degree has more carryover to hip hinge movements. Maybe slightly but that is largely irrelevant if the 90 degree builds the back more.
>But yeah this is ultimately likely just personal preference.
I agree, it could also be due to anatomical differences. I don't feel a hamstring stretch at all on 90 deg extensions (I think it's because I'm too flexible though lmao), and I don't get a hamstring pump either (though I do get a great glute and erector pump), while I do get a pump in my hamstrings as well as my glutes and erectors on 45 deg extensions. Either way they're both great exercises, and if I had a GHD I would probably do 90 deg ones as well as 45 deg.
Also forgot to mention, I don't think it's a loading issue either since I do bar on back on both lifts which still allows for full ROM unlike holding a bar.
You sure you are hitting full ROM on 90 degree extensions? I'm starting to think a major reason I don't see people doing them at my gym is the height issue. Our GHD is cheap and shit.
You know what you are right I am a manlet 5'6 so I can basically go fully 45 degree forward fold on any 90 degree GHD where even my brother who is 5'9 hits his head on the floor at our local gym. my head just barely skims the ground. I need to keep that in mind when talking up back extensions since I talk them up a lot lol. In that way 45 degree are the universal any height and proportion version while depending on those things you might need to search out a GHD that can accommodate you. Thanks for checking me on this.
You make some very good points, but I'm actually shorter than you (5'5) LMAO, but for me the issue is that my hamstrings are much more flexible than most (nearly at front splits, and my torso goes so far below parallel on RDLs that I can see my ass if Iook up at the mirror lol), not height. I can definitely see how taller people would have problems with it tho
>You sure you are hitting full ROM on 90 degree extensions?
Yes, I can do full ROM without any problems with my setup. It's just a pain in the ass to setup so I don't do it anymore.
Nice yeah my hamstrings are not quite there but also really flexible. Back lower than parallel with the floor for RDLs.
Really I get nothing from 45 degrer back extensions and honestly I feel infury prone when doing them. In my mind they are just inferior 90 degree extensions. When doing them like at a planet fitness I go to since it is all they have I just wish I was at home or at my mma gym hitting the 90 degree. But I am going to give them a more fair shake next time. There is a 45 degree at my mma gym I have never used always opting for the GHD but maybe there is something to the 45 degree.
I had a hilarious ghetto method for doing 90 degrees before I purchased my personal home GHD also lol... I would bring a desk right up to my power cage and lay flat on it with the barbell at the height high enough above the desk to hold my ankles. Then I would just bang out AMRAP holding a 45lb plate. I'm guessing you have a ghetto similar solution.
Something you can try is doing 3 count pauses at the top of each rep. I find that doing that pretty much eliminates the tendency to cheat by overextending your thoracic spine at the top of the movement, and the movement just feels better in general for whatever reason. I already liked them before I started doing this but they became even better once I made this change.
>I'm guessing you have a ghetto similar solution.
Mine was lying on a tall plyo box with a taller, larger plyo box behind me with a ton of 20s stacked on top. I would put my ankles under the larger box, hinge down, row a loaded ez-curl bar onto my back, and do reps. It was great but took too long to setup lol
Addendum, 20s are kilos and as for the height I found that it was tall enough to where I could have my torso be almost perpendicular with the floor at the bottom (kinda felt nice hanging there, but there was pretty much no load so it was kinda useless tbh)
Yeah that is the other thing that I love about the 90 degree just hanging with upper body perpendicular to the floor is a great stretch. I like to place an exercise ball or slamball or something in front of me and place my hands on that for a really excellent stretch. Also I use the blood rushing to my head to gauge how I am feeling for the workout. Sometimes I can tell something is off by how my blood pressure feels in that hanging position. One of the many reasons 90 degree extensions are essential for my warmups. You can't quite get the same blood rush to the head feeling from the bottom of a 45 degree. Only other way really is handstands or inverted static holds. But those required effort where you can relax hanging off the GHD. That being said the blood rushing to the head aspect of the 90 degrees is something everyone doing them should be aware of and does make them not suitable for everyone. People with high blood pressure etc.
Honestly I remember when loaded I feel dangerous pressure at the bottom of the movement on the 45 degrees in my low back. I do 90 degrees with 100lb+ no problem feeling amazing like nothing else but weighted 45 like iv said both feel dangerous pressure and low back and even curl upper back forward. I have no problem with thoracic spine extnesion my bracing and trunk is pretty bulletproof. I am obsessive about proper bracing and trunk core positioning. Having a thick core is a primary goal of mine which is why I gravitated so much to the 90 degree extensions. Front squats for anterior chain and 90degree back extensions for posterior chain just those 2 exercises can keep me happy for the rest of my life.
But yeah going to give the 45s a try next chance I get. All of these discomforts and pains I described could all be placebo and a false narrative iv built up. Going to go in with completely open mind.
Maybe the pad height is set wrong? It could be too high, if it's too high you have to round your spine to get into the bottom position, which isn't inherently bad but if you aren't prepared for it it can cause pain. Don't set it too low either though as that'll put undue pressure on your knees.
Nah I set it lowest and I even usually have to be on my tippy toes for the 45 degrees to get what is full ROM for me. I am sure you have to do the same being even shorter than me. Not sure how would have pressure on the knees when it is still barely even past my crotch.
Also another thing, after a few weeks of doing 45 deg extensions I started to figure out how to rebound out of the bottom using the stretch reflex from hamstrings, which made the movement feel much better. Kind of hard to explain but it made the movement feel much smoother instead of a very rough transition between the negative and the positive. Maybe you just need to keep it in for longer? (Now obviously if it's causing you pain, stop and figure out what's causing it, but if it isn't then it might just feel a little awkward for the first few weeks while you get used to it)
Very interesting stuff actually, specifically this
>Sometimes I can tell something is off by how my blood pressure feels in that hanging position.
Wonder if that is being caused by outside of gym variable. It's an interesting gauge anyway
>I am sure you have to do the same being even shorter than me.
>Not sure how would have pressure on the knees when it is still barely even past my crotch.
If you aren't feeling anything in your knees it's all good, just some retards put the pad super low and wonder why their knees feel like they're about to pop lol
Sorry I am on phone hard to green text. Since I have been lifting for 15+ years now I gauge and regulate my sessions based on the warmup and a very important gauge is how my.back extensions go. Absolutely outside of gym variables are the things I am talking about things like allergies for example. My head will feel very different from the blood rushing to the head if it is a bad stretch of hay fever season. Just one example. Digestion another factor etc. Majority of the time the blood flow to the head is what gets me HYPED and is part oft he ritual that triggers my body to enter performance mode. I may even be feeling sick on a day then once I'm inverted and blood has rushed to the head I'm firing off at 110%. Other days (rare) I think I'm ready to go and go inverted and feel dizzy/might throw up. Very rare and these are the extremes but I am also sensitive to smaller variations which can tell me today is or isn't PR day etc. I find this sort of thing to be more and more important with age.
Sounds like a really good way to screen for what things affect your performance positively/negatively tbh. Though some fluctuation is inevitable, most of the time they occur because of something affecting you outside of training. Could probably allow you to improve your sessions over time by adding/removing things based on how they affect your training (eg some sort of food fucks up your digestion bad, which is reflected during your warmup. then you remove it, and your sessions become better again. or maybe you do something that helps you sleep better, which is reflected in your warmup, so you keep doing it. for a final example, maybe you consume something that improves your hydration massively, which again is reflected in your warmup, so you keep doing it.) Obviously while these changes won't be massive off the bat, accumulation of small things like that can make a big difference in the long run
>I find this sort of thing to be more and more important with age.
Makes sense, I'm fairly young so I don't have particularly large fluctuations in my training. I think my work capacity fluctuates more than anything, some days I can blast through a ton of stuff easily, on other days I'm just out of breath all the time for whatever reason.
Yeah all of those things basically. I am not that old, 33 started training at 18 in college I basically have all my training and diet etc locked in but there are so many variables you never know what is going on. Sleep is really the final thing I don't have in check but possibly can in the modern world with modern work schedules etc. Also anxiety / depression for example not that I have a problem with them but everyone can feel down and gloomy especially in winter less uptake of vitamin D etc. Likely these mental blocks play the largest role in bringing down performance in training sessions. The mind is a powerful powerful thing.
There is something about how the heart pumps differently when inverted and also the extra blood flow to the brain that can inform you of some factors effecting your body you weren't aware of. I swear I have seen studies/ heard talks about this it's only probably 50% broscience. Have to sleep now thank you very much for the chat. Absolutely going to be giving the 45 degree extensions a run.
>I swear I have seen studies/ heard talks about this it's only probably 50% broscience.
Same here, I don't recall from where though but I do think I've heard about it at least once in the past
>Have to sleep now thank you very much for the chat.
Gn bro, great conversation
I'm something of a retard myself so could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that it would be pretty difficult to fuck yourself up doing these.
There's no weight pushing against your back or the like that typically creates snap scenarios.
If your muscles start getting tired and technique fails you're likely to bend at your upper back to complete the rep.
I've used these to rehab back injuries on multiple occasions. Unless you've straight up shit out a disk these are excellent for rehab. Once you're recovered you can add weight and make your back even better.
Not that guy but in regards to back shit what are your thoughts on dead hangs. And how are my shoulders meant to be, just total relaxation or "back and down" like you do with a lot of weight lifting moves.
Dead hangs are also great for back pain, personally I like full relaxation because it really lets your entire body decompress.
Makes sense, thanks.
You can try both, some people don't like to fully relax at the bottom, others do. There's a lot of different variations you can do with them tbh, they're all great
How fucking frail are you lol? Just keep laying on your plastic wheel. It's totally "fixing" your back. It's totally not simply stretching it and providing temporary relief instead of strengthening the muscles that support the spine which would actually provide long term relief to back pain and prevent future injuries.
Your back muscles can't fix a fucked up or slipped disk
Actually, slipped discs heal on their own, just like any other injury. When your back feels better, you should make it strong so that it doesn't happen again.
If you somehow fuck up your disks doing back extensions you're an actual moron. And tons of people over 30 have asymptomatic disk herniations, while others have back pain with no herniated disks, so that argument falls flat. Back extensions are very good for helping to fix the disks regardless
Is there a way to do this without a special bench?
You can make a ghetto setup with a rack, barbell, and a few other things I'm forgetting I think. You should be able to find a guide if you search it up on youtube.
See also kB swings
Never done these personally but I've heard that they're really good, would probably help a good bit.
Snap city. Home. Aww shit, here we go again.
Someone post the webm of the guy snapping his knees doing this with a 45lb weight
Not the same exercise, the dude was doing machine sissy squats with locked hips. Back extensions are an entirely different movement
nah you're think of a different video. It was def a guy doing back extensions with a plate held to his chest.
I don't recall seeing that video ever, weird. I have no idea how the fuck anyone would snap their knees on these unless they're a moron and set up the bad incorrectly (having it excessively low does put pressure on the knees I think, but you can just move it slightly higher and that problem goes away)
Yes, I also prefer doing them with a 3 second pause at the top, it feels very good. Make sure that whatever load you use doesn't cause any pain, some people might have to start with bodyweight before adding weight if their back is in particularly bad shape.
And as for loading, you can hold plates or dbs but I prefer to graduate to bar on back once adding more load becomes impractical. Yes you can just grab onto a barbell like an RDL, but that tends to limit ROM and you end up needing way more weight due to cutting ROM and more favorable leverages. You want to progress this like any other exercise, if you can get up to 60kg+ bar on back your back will be almost impossible to injure.
It was actualy in reverse. He was leaning back on his knees parallel to the ground when his patellar tendons snapped
I'm retarded. What's the difference between this, a nordic curl, and a GHR?
Pure hip hinge with a very unique strength curve due to the angle. Very good complement to other hip hinges (deadlifts, RDLs, good mornings, etc) and is also very good for general back health.
Hamstring isolation, extremely good exercise when performed correctly. It also complements any hamstring-dominant hip hinge while making your hamstrings big as fuck.
Kind of similar to nordic curls I think, but I've never used one so I can't comment on it too much.
No shit, I said in one of my earlier replies that you should use whatever load you can that doesn't produce any pain. This would override any loading or RIR parameters. Of course as your back adapts, you'll be able to increase the loading until you can get to 0-4 RIR, which is what you want ideally. Back extensions produce very little systemic fatigue due to the low absolute loads, so there is no problem with pushing them to failure compared to deadlifts for example.
ok, anon, I'm just a physical therapist who's seen hundreds of pt's with c/o back pain but I'm sure you know better than me.
>ok, anon, I'm just a physical therapist who's seen hundreds of pt's with c/o back pain but I'm sure you know better than me.
So just because you're a physical therapist suddenly everyone who has experienced the much greater systemic fatigue produced from going to failure on movements with high absolute loads (deadlifts) compared to movements with low absolute loads (back extensions) are all incorrect? I guess all those SHWs in powerlifting should be squatting and deadlifting twice a week instead of every other weak, because absolute load does not affect systemic fatigue at all doesn't it?
you sound like a very insecure person.
>another non-sequitur ad-hominem
Please present me with a cohesive argument detailing how going to failure on back extensions, when no pain is produced from performing the movement to failure, is somehow harmful and produces more fatigue than deadlifting to failure. Thanks.
explain why you would go to failure on an exercise that you aware of having an acute on chronic condition? also does going to failure not inherently increase the likelihood of getting an injury? Why go to failure and increase your likelihood of getting an injury or aggravating an already injured body part? There's no logic to it, when starting rehab on an acutely or chronically injured area the first goal is to increase non-painful arom, increase blood flow to the area, and decrease pain usually done by therapeutic massage and or applying heat or cold packs.
dealing with chronic pain and/or chronic injury is very different than simply increasing strength of a muscle group.
>explain why you would go to failure on an exercise that you aware of having an acute or chronic condition?
Because it is extremely safe to fail on? The absolute load is low, compressive forces are fairly minimal (and only exist at the top of the rep, you get decompressed at the bottom), and even if you go into spinal flexion, the load in spinal flexion in the bottom position is fairly gentle (in fact, some people intentionally do back extensions with a rounded back to help the back adapt to flexion under load simply because it's more gentle than jefferson curls)
>also does going to failure not inherently increase the likelihood of getting an injury?
If you're training through pain and you've already passed the point of technical breakdown, sure. But you'd be retarded to do the former, and as for the latter, technical breakdown is fairly easy to avoid on back extensions, and even then it's fairly minor (typically manifests through overly extending the thoracic spine at the top of the movement to make it easier by essentially reducing the load on the posterior chain to 0, but this doesn't increase your injury risk at all).
>Why go to failure and increase your likelihood of getting an injury or aggravating an already injured body part?
If you are experiencing pain, then don't go to failure. And you don't even need to go to failure, 1-3 RIR is still fine. But keeping 10+ reps in reserve is pointless if you aren't experiencing any pain from the movement. Just to bring this point home the first time I started doing back extensions, I did every set to failure or close to failure despite the fact that I had back pain at that time. I experienced no pain whatsoever during the sets, and my back felt better afterwards. In the following weeks and months my back pain lessened until it disappeared entirely.
blah blah blah, I'm not interested in going back and forth with some sperg who doesn't know what he's talking about but won't admit it. I've learned in my profession that you really can't educate those who are unwilling.
>when starting rehab on an acutely or chronically injured area the first goal is to increase non-painful arom, increase blood flow to the area
No shit, I already said this earlier in the thread. You should only go to failure if you experience no back pain while doing it, if you do experience pain, the load must be lessened, or the movement regressed. Over time the movement should be progressed, without producing any pain, to the most progressed variation (from most regressed to most progressed: assisted partials, partials, full ROM with bodyweight, full ROM with dumbbells or a plate, full ROM with barbell on back)
>dealing with chronic pain and/or chronic injury is very different than simply increasing strength of a muscle group.
Of course, and after the pain/injury is dealt with, one of the best ways to avoid re-injuring yourself is to strengthen that very muscle group. Back extensions are one of the best movements to do so.
Don't ego-lift, don't use insane amounts of momentum, and perform the movement correctly with a full range of motion.
>more non-sequitur ad-hominems
You aren't even able to defend your own arguments properly. Why the fuck should anyone in this thread listen to you then? I fixed my back (and knees, and shoulders, and elbows, and wrists. Fuck egolifting lol) just fine without any PT.
How do I do this without it hurting my back?
do NOT do these, they are terrible for your back. According to Stuart Mcgill
>On the roman chair (this is the piece of equipment that is set at 45 degrees and you can lock your feet and rest your thighs on it so that you can drop and lift your upper body, working the back) performing one back extension, imposes over 4000 N or about 890lbs of compression on the spine (McGill 91). In addition, there are many exercises performed on the floor lying on the stomach where some combination of the arms and legs are raised, or the entire torso is lifted off the ground. These types of exercises impose up to 6000 N or over 1300lbs of spinal load and compression (McGill, 91)
>On the roman chair (this is the piece of equipment that is set at 45 degrees and you can lock your feet and rest your thighs on it so that you can drop and lift your upper body, working the back) performing one back extension, imposes over 4000 N or about 890lbs of compression on the spine (McGill 91).
This is caused by hyperextension of the spine, which happens when you perform the movement incorrectly. Ignore this retardation, back extensions performed correctly *decompress* the spine at the bottom of the movement. And besides this, the spine can tolerate and adapt to compression, otherwise deadlifts would be contraindicated for literally everyone.
eliminates all back pain in less than a minute forever
My friend has scoliosis and kyphosis, aswell as uneven hips. Physiotherapists have given her nothing worthwhile. What do?
Deadhangs every day. 3 sets of 30 seconds or whatever they're able to do.
Deadlifts are the only back exercise you need
>Actually fixes your back
Very good on lower body days. It's better with other exercises that strengthen the back though, you need to make the spinal erectors stronger as well.
I completely agree with your post except for
>Better to do them fully horizontal on a GHD or roman chair. 45 degree back extensions are shit but if they are the best you've got them you make due.
They're not really comparable, 90 degree back extensions are more of an erector-glute exercise with very little hamstring, while 45 deg is more similar to RDLs in that you still get a decent amount of hamstrings. On top of this 90 deg is extremely short-range biased, while 45 deg has a much smoother strength curve (still tends to be fairly hard in the shortened position, but mid and lengthened is still challenging). I think 90 deg might be better for strengthening the back as much as possible, but 45 deg will have more carryover to other hip hinges. Both are extremely good though, I wish I could do both but the only way I can do 90 deg back extensions is with a really ghetto setup that takes way too long to put together, so I only do 45 deg ones.
I love these like you wouldn't believe, they have added nearly an inch to my height in under a month, and the relief in the traps and upper back when you get down is immense
I had one and it broke pretty quickly. Cheap product, I was a dumbass and fell for a trendy advertisement.
>constant popping and clicking in my lower left back
>first part that gets sore and starts hurting when rooning
how do i fix this shit bros