HARD BED FOR OPTIMAL SLEEP AND HEALTH... AND JAW GAINS?

Recently I've been trying to research about different styles of bed across the world to determine which surface is the optimal for human sleep. Soon i found the following article by physiotherapist Michael Tetley

>Instinctive sleeping and resting postures: An anthropological and zoological approach to treatment of low back and joint pain

https://www.bmj.com/content/321/7276/1616.short

In this paper is argued that the optimal sleep surface for humans is a hard flat surface without pillow, and the best posture is to sidesleep. According to Tetley, sleeping this way prevents injuries and joint pain.

The guy sounds like a fraud by moments ( specially when you read the rest of his story https://whyy.org/segments/a-physiotherapist-traveled-the-world-studying-sleep-and-says-most-of-us-do-it-wrong/ ), but many other cultures outside the african ones that he covers do also sleep on hard surface.

Asian cultures tend to rest on hard wooden beds, even in winter

korean ondol bed system

chinese kang bed system

Vietnamese bed
https://m.youtube.com/shorts/hKVh-DoDnGg

korean stone bed

Japanese floor sleeping
https://m.youtube.com/shorts/i4H42IS-Oc0

Chinese hardbeds
https://m.youtube.com/shorts/SggXI7cxIjY

Inuit are known to sleep on leathers placed over the snow inside their igloos.

In slavic countries they have stove beds similar to the chinese ones, where they sleep directly over the stove inside the house. the surface is hard.

IN THE PAPER'S CITATIONS, I found this one that links floor sleeping with jaw developement ( Caution: everything in this paper sound fishy)
>The jaw epidemic: Recognition, origins, cures, and prevention
https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/70/9/759/5872832

What is your opinion about this IST? If you have more information or insight on this please share it.

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  1. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I sleep on a japanese futon, for space and meme reasons, and have done so for a few months now. I haven't noticed any changes

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Can you answer this? Ive been reading here and there about futons, and a recurrent problem ive found is that people find them too warm. So warm at the level that makes you sweat, and some say that you need to ventilate daily in the sun so the futon doesnt get fungus from the condensation.

      Can that be a problem?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        I find it quite cool actually and I'm in Australia so it's been summer here. I do pick it up off the floor and fold it up everyday, but I only hang it out and give it a good beating once a week

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Has the futon more cushion than lets say, a pillow top? How much time is it supposed to last?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Bed:
      Japanese bed:

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Its not a "bed". Also, most westerners who sleep in futon do it incorrectly. Japanese people have many layers under it. First of all, the house is raised from the soil, second the wooden floor, then the tatami mats, and then the futon.

  2. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    sleeping on hard surfaces (the floor) and not using a pillow is common knowledge if you post here. But the general populace (and most people that post here) will ignore it and sleep on comfier beds anyway. It’s the sleep version of hot v cold showers.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Was this discussed here on IST? To be honest i wouldnt do floor sleeping, as im afraid of insects, and also here in my country the winter is pretty cold and humid. But i could definitely go for a more minimalist sturdier bed.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      I do start my day with a fast cold shower. I would prefer a bath but dont have the space.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      I have slept on the floor for about 25 years of my life due to being poor. The biggest problem with sleeping on floor versus a comfy mattress is you get broken sleep when sleeping on floor. Only time I get full 8 hours of sleep is when I am on a mattress; of course I do get broken sleep a few times out of the week but its not like floor sleeping which happens every night.
      Also Asian countries have beds. I have visited friends in both Korea and China they all had mattresses. Only time we slept on the floor was when we made a trip to some traditional vacation spot where the house is literally empty and you sit on the floor for everything such as eating meals, sleeping, watching tv, etc.
      Do not ever believe in poor living condition memes. Cold shower is another poor living condition meme which I had to do for 25 years as well. The only thing I got from that is smooth skin and my skin dried out less versus hot shower. So there is some merit to that.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >Also Asian countries have beds. I have visited friends in both Korea and China they all had mattresses.

        But arent those mattress harder than western ones?

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          No. Korea and China isn't some fairy tale land where everyone lives like its 1925. There are traces of traditional lifestyle for sure but most people live a very modern life... unless you are poor

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >It’s the sleep version of hot v cold showers.
      So it's just tough guy dick measuring supported by "expert" studies that actually does nothing?

  3. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Bottom pic is literally how I've slept for years lmao.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Instinctively you protected penis from the insect.

  4. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    might try this. probably a meme though

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      I mean is a thing over the years. If there are changes they would go unnoticeable.

  5. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >the penis is protected from insects
    w-what

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, this old man is quite something. Just read that article i posted

      https://whyy.org/segments/a-physiotherapist-traveled-the-world-studying-sleep-and-says-most-of-us-do-it-wrong/

      He says that he went blind at the age of 23 after recieving a bullet in the battlefield, in a kenyan war where he was commanding a group of kenyan troops.

      He says that all these positions have an explanation of the body adapting to the enviroment. Like, in africa they wouldnt use something as a pillow, because it would make difficult to hear predators

  6. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    for me its the thai straw mat with that little square pillow that keeps your head perfectly in line with spine when sleeping on side.
    In the countryside they have those sort of low tables that are really large and you actually sit on to eat n sleep. Very comfy.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Can you post an example of the straw mat with the pillow?

      I know that in those places they prefer flat surfaces without cushion because of the heat

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Pretty much like this and you can kind of see the table, its like fairly think wooden slats that make it really comfy to sit an lie on
        I never see them use futon style mattress unless they are indoor or on ceramic tile floor, which they LOVE. Everywhere is ceramic tile.
        They just have light duvets or layers of blankets, thats it.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Are you living there?

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            ye, im in the countryside building houses.
            idk if the good sleep is from the mats or just doing hard manual labour every day. Also eat like a king since the families we build for make us every meal in thanks

  7. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I have been thinking about doing this because I noticed a connection between my wonky and asymmetrical body, and sleeping on a bed. There was a period of a week where I just couldn't sleep so kept rolling around the bed all night not settling in to one spot, and all the wonky stuff I was dealing with just went away. I feel like it is related to the bed.

    I did start sleeping on the floor one night when it was really hot but the hardness created pressure points on my hips and so on. Maybe I would just adjust to them and that feeling would go away.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      oh the other thing about floor sleeping is that you can't really sleep on the floor long-term. You have to built a kind of raised platform to prevent mould building up from the sweat going onto the floor.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Yes, a bad mattress can frick up your body. Thats why these things are really hard to choose for many people. They are a high investment and the result can be bad

      oh the other thing about floor sleeping is that you can't really sleep on the floor long-term. You have to built a kind of raised platform to prevent mould building up from the sweat going onto the floor.

      Exactly, thats what i was asking here

      Can you answer this? Ive been reading here and there about futons, and a recurrent problem ive found is that people find them too warm. So warm at the level that makes you sweat, and some say that you need to ventilate daily in the sun so the futon doesnt get fungus from the condensation.

      Can that be a problem?

      , ive found that some futon users have been complaiming of mold underneath the futon. But in japan, its not directly on the floor that they use it, as i mentioned here

      Its not a "bed". Also, most westerners who sleep in futon do it incorrectly. Japanese people have many layers under it. First of all, the house is raised from the soil, second the wooden floor, then the tatami mats, and then the futon.

      , there are many layers and different materials so it doesnt have so much contact with humidity and it can breath better

  8. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Japanese Futon is so shit if you ONLY have a futon and not the multi under layers. Also you have to MAINTAIN it by drying it in the sun for hours which gets annoying. I literally threw mines out and am now sleeping on a 1in thick foam yoga mat that I bought for $30.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      I've had some good, restful naps on yoga mats and rolled up sweatshirts. Maybe will try this tomorrow night.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Since when do you sleep on the floor?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >put a tatami mat under it
      >put it up against the wall every time you wake up, just as you would spend time making your bed anyways
      >drag it outside for the day once per month
      I really dont see the problem here...

  9. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    This guy sleeps on the floor and tells his experience.

    https://www.theunconventionalroute.com/sleeping-on-the-floor/

    Also, this on the mattress industry

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      is he lying next to poo?

  10. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    i actually cant physically get into these positions, my elbow dont lay flat, wtf? iN no. 2 i just choke myself and cant even get my head on the floor

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      You dont need to do exactly those positions, try to do what feels more comfortable to you without a pillow, to experiment.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        If you're gonna side sleep on the ground or a firm mattress then you need to get your arms into those positions to avoid developing shoulder pain

  11. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Is this a poorgay cope thread in disguise? Also side sleepers can get the rope and if you need to protect your penis from insects while you sleep then you either live in a third world country (poor) or are a complete fricking disgusting bum (likely also poor)

  12. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I mean there's still padding. It's still "soft" it's just not overdesigned like capitalist beds where you need to spend a couple grand to fricking sleep. I spent a couple weeks sleeping on wood flooring with a couple blankets and it was awful. I've also traveled Japan coast to coast for a couple weeks before and not one place did I find them sleeping without a nice, thick pad and some places had beds. It's mostly done for the space saving, which is what I'm interested in.

    I also knew Koreans in university. They do not sleep on rocks.

  13. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    This is how monke sleep

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      In the zoo. Monke also does his own personalised bed in nature.

      They also make pillows, which defies Tetley's theory

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Slept directly on the floor for about ten years. I am a side sleeper and have an old weightlifting injury that flares up if my hips get too much pressure from sleeping on one particular side, so I decided to explore my options. I tried out the Japanese style Futon, wasn't bad, but still flared up my injury. Then I tried a memory foam mattress off Amazon and I am able to sleep on either side. Still sleep on the floor occasionally because it's still the most comfortable for my back though. My sleep position very much looks like

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        How do you sleep on the floor? What did you do in winter?

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          I live in California, if that's what you mean by the winter. I sleep on the floor just as I do a bed: blanket, pillow, a pillow between my knees. If it is colder, I just add more or thicker blankets. I can also put some type of blanket on the floor if needed as this usually adds more heat.

  14. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >morons are urinonically discussing about sleeping on the hard floor cause of “muh gains”

    IST had corroded your brains frens

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      What if it bring health bennefits? What about glymphatic drainage?

  15. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    i dont WANT to protect my penis from insects

  16. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    In this study, dr jerome siegel observes the behaviours of 3 hunter gatherer tribes. All 3 slept on hard surface

    https://www.cell.com/fulltext/S0960-9822(15)01157-4

  17. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Lazy to re research this but I read the contrary - softer mattress is better for your bones and spine as it adjusts to your body structure or such. Only when you get older its reccommended to switch to harder surface sleeping. Anyway I once tried some hard fancy mattress and my sleep was ruined, it was like torture and my back was killing me next days, frick that shit.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, the greatest problem here is that theres no real research. As i said the old man that proposes this sounds very unstable. Apparently humans have been sleeping on more simpler spaces than we do now, i dont know it that is better or worse, or if the new mattress tech is better or worse, but at least it certainly is a step towards minimalism and improvisation

  18. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Tfw the liquor knows the answer

  19. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I have been sleeping on a japanese style futon for a few years now and honestly it is a life changer. my back and neck feel much better and I get great sleep. I have tried sleeping on less than the futon but my hips and shoulders and such had pain from the hard surface. I find the japanese style futon to be just enough cushion for comfort but also enough to really get the benefits from the flat surface sleeping. Also I just roll it up which saves tons of space.

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