how effective are steroids?

mike says steroids increase performance by 10% when adjusted for weight gain. he also thinks ray williams was natural when he squatted 1080lbs.
what do you think?

  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    The way I understand his argument basically boils down to two points:
    - The best lifters in tested and untested federations have on average a 10% difference
    - If you are not a genetic freak lifting near natty peak, steroids won't make you a genetic freak lifting near untested records.

    He goes on a weird tangent about how one particular compound wouldn't be an ideal choice in one context as an example of why drugs don't work in strength sports, and his claim that drugs don't make you much stronger seems to go against almost everything we see in strongman and weightlifting.

    First off, when we're talking about elite 1rms, 10% is a lot. Imagine if all your lifts went up 10%? That's be insane. Second, Mike's argument for why tested powerlifting federations are completely drug free is "I just know" which isn't super compelling, although they are likely to use less drugs if they are using. Further, comparing the top lifters in both groups doesn't really transfer to the average lifter. Of course some natural guys can perform incredibly due to being genetic outliers. That doesn't mean that I won't get much stronger if I take a ton of drugs.

    Basically, I know this is one of his videos where he says "drugs are bad mmkay?" But his evidence isn't very compelling. The biggest issue with steroids and PEDs, why they are so prevalent, even in recreational communities, is because they fucking work. Like undisputably, steroids work very well.

    But what do I know, I'm just a natty so maybe they don't work at all and everyone just works super duper hard.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      one thing that didnt make sense to me was adjusting for weight when comparing natural to enhanced. isnt gaining muscle the biggest benefit from PEDs? adjusting for weight kinda feels like adjusting out the biggest difference between the two groups. in my mind it would make more sense to have two groups of say 80kg lifters, give one group PEDs, then compare them after theyve bulked to 100kg. especially in a shorter timeframe this would certainly increase the strength gap right?

      idk it just didnt make sense to me. also him thinking ray williams was natural just cause he says so is pretty ridiculous.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        The way I understand his argument basically boils down to two points:
        - The best lifters in tested and untested federations have on average a 10% difference
        - If you are not a genetic freak lifting near natty peak, steroids won't make you a genetic freak lifting near untested records.

        He goes on a weird tangent about how one particular compound wouldn't be an ideal choice in one context as an example of why drugs don't work in strength sports, and his claim that drugs don't make you much stronger seems to go against almost everything we see in strongman and weightlifting.

        First off, when we're talking about elite 1rms, 10% is a lot. Imagine if all your lifts went up 10%? That's be insane. Second, Mike's argument for why tested powerlifting federations are completely drug free is "I just know" which isn't super compelling, although they are likely to use less drugs if they are using. Further, comparing the top lifters in both groups doesn't really transfer to the average lifter. Of course some natural guys can perform incredibly due to being genetic outliers. That doesn't mean that I won't get much stronger if I take a ton of drugs.

        Basically, I know this is one of his videos where he says "drugs are bad mmkay?" But his evidence isn't very compelling. The biggest issue with steroids and PEDs, why they are so prevalent, even in recreational communities, is because they fucking work. Like undisputably, steroids work very well.

        But what do I know, I'm just a natty so maybe they don't work at all and everyone just works super duper hard.

        He's a typical roidchud trying to downplay the effects of gear. Almost no one outside of a specific subset of powerlifters gives a fuck about strength to weight ratio. Steroids rapidly allow you to gain muscle compared to a natty which will also make you rapidly gain strength faster.

        And yeah, 15% is a huge deal. Doesn't he do bjj? Imagine being automatically 15% stronger than your opponent plus being able to maintain a much lower bodyfat percentage (therefor allowing you to carry more lean tissue) than a natty in your weight class. It's going to make an enormous difference functionally.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >bjj
          Literally one of the dirtiest sports in terms of PEDs because there's no testing.

          >Captcha: 2DADS
          BJJ gayest sport?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        you are correct, but he does bring up untested SHWs, which are not particularly stronger than tested ones
        i still think the comparing records strategy from nuckols is wrong, because obviously tested feds have a lot more people competing in them, and if you want to see the effects of steroids on strength in a practical sense, without controlling for anything, you should look at people who started / discontinued taking them
        for example, john haack went from natty 800 kg total @ 83 to 1000 @ 90, pete rubish went from natty 740 kg total to 950 kg total and so on

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Israetel is pretty much correct, roids work really well but they aren't magic like people here think. You aren't going to be Mr. Olympia just taking some drugs, you aren't even going to win some low level BB show if you aren't training well. Some people here delude themselves into thinking they'd be competing at the international level instead of deadlifting 3 plate if only they were on test/tren/whatever.

    People like to use people in the the Olympics/Pro sports doing drugs as an example of ALL natural people in every sport being on drugs, the big fallacy here is that most high level powerlifters are broke ass college kids or just regular 20-35 year old people, and have zero state sponsorship or any big names behind them. Powerlifting is tiny, no one gives a shit if you win, the NFL/Olympics are huge with millions of $$$ behind the athletes. Just listen to some podcasts with higher level IPF competitors and their stories of drug testers showing up randomly at their house, you can't really do drugs if you have that going on.

    I don't get why people here can't accept that some people who are natural have some insane genetics for being strong. It's easy to accept some people have insane genetics for growing tall, there's people who are all the way up to +7ft, so it's easy to visually see they have freak genetics, why is it so hard to accept that some people have that level of freak genetics for building muscle and getting strong?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Just listen to some podcasts with higher level IPF competitors and their stories of drug testers showing up randomly at their house, you can't really do drugs if you have that going on.

      haha.. HAHAHAHAHAHAGAGAGAGAGAGAGAGAGAGAGAGLALALALALALALA

      embarrassing.

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Roidlets will never admit to roids because it defeats their whole marketing scam.

    When really pushed on it they often wriggle and say "Yeah I tried something once it was weak and didn't really do much for me but apart from that I've been natty"

    It's all so tiresome

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Looked better before.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      He looks even worse now. One of the least appealing physiques despite nothing particularly being wrong with it. Just looks so wrong.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        mike israetel is a russian garden gnome, it seems that it's a common for them to be creepy looking barrel chested dwarfs, my father is like that too

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I've never heard Mike give a single good take when it comes to gear. He had a video not too long ago when he said beginners should stick to oral only for example.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      i think i know what youre talking about, some podcast i think. iirc he said beginners could take anavar only for 4 weeks to see how they respond to steroids while "only shutting down natural production a little" sounded a bit retarded to me

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        He was talking about "tiers" of commitment to doping, nominally to discourage people from taking drugs but in reality just providing a couple gateway cycles which he labeled as "for beginners".

        All his drug content is so duplicitous because he'll say don't do drugs, but he also benefits massively from the normalization of steroids, given that a substantial amount of his content is about steroids and what you can expect from steroids and how he planned his steroids and how you should train if you're on steroids.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      He has a video where he gatekeeps gear and says that there's zero reason to ever take steroids unless you're a pro bodybuilder or pro athlete, despite the fact that he's a 250lb manlet and is neither of the things he mentioned

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Almost all roiders are like this. It's the equivalent of bragging how much you partied in high school and college and then you tell teens "bro don't drink until you're fully developed and of legal age don't be like me haha"

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >neither of the things
        He does make money off his physique, and in some ways he is a professional sports entertainer? "Influencer" is an awful thing to include in that group but in the case of the successful individuals, it kind of applies.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Dbol only isn't a bad cycle honestly. Let's you know how you respond, minimal pct needed, rapid results, no issues with lack of e2.

      But of course it's got a ton of sides compared to just pinning test. But it's easier to drop when they pop up.

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Who the fuck is Mike? Kys

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I agree. Steroids are kinda shit for strength but drive good size gains. Muscle growth on them out paces strength growth a lot, and then the tendon issues limit strength progression too.

Your email address will not be published.