I feel my arms fricking dying, but I don't feel my back at all.

I feel my arms fricking dying, but I don't feel my back at all.
At best a little tingle at the upper back, but the redder part in picrel is completely silent, nonresponsive.
What gives?

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    weighted pullups and rows are calling you home, anon

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Just did weighted chinups yesterday and finally feeling some doms in my biceps/teres/lats.
      weighted BW is honestly the real deal, maybe Mentzer was on to something...

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    you are a beginner

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      This.
      As a beginner you have almost no lats mass and thus no mental connection

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Thats not the reason. The reason a beginner feels it more in the arms then the back is because they are untrained and weak so their arm is actually get a good workout on that movement.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        no, moron, it means his back is stronger than his weenie forearms

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      This.
      As a beginner you have almost no lats mass and thus no mental connection

      >mental connection
      how do I develop it?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This is a quick introduction, listen to his cues:
        https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lf8cleyFDYM
        #4 especially you can do with lightweights as a warmup before your main lat exercises to "find your muscles" first before using them.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Just practice flexing your lats when you're just chilling to be honest. How you'll flex a cep, just flex a lat, you'll get more conscious of it this way

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        by doing barbell rows

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Try one handed rows with dumbbells and cables. Barbell rows require a lot more focus on stabilizing your core and maintaining the same preferred back angle through the motion, as well as limiting the rom by the bar itself.

        For cables I do them seated and use my offhand to brace against my knee. I don't twist my torso or jerk by body back with the rep, keep everything still and move the weight slowly. For dumbbells I do them standing behind an inclined bench and bracing my offhand against the bench while my feet are in a fencing stance with my backfoot pointed to the side. That's just the most comfortable way I found to do them, way better than that knee on a bench shit.

        Also what's really underrated is chest supported rows either by a machine or dumbbells while lying on an inclined bench. I prefer the machine and it lets me get a great controlled stretch with both arms at the same time.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      This.
      As a beginner you have almost no lats mass and thus no mental connection

      (not OP)
      I've tried every grip variation, every speed, every angle, and I have NEVER felt it in my lats
      So I focus on NOT feeling it in my biceps, which I've gotten good at
      its the weirdest shit, its like I just get tired, as if in a dream, as nothing feels weak, but I slowly am less capable of doing them
      t. lat pull down for 195lbsx12 on a single cable pulley

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Pull through lower back front delts you smoke midss

        >they dont engage
        You brace them not use them

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >its like I just get tired, as if in a dream, as nothing feels weak, but I slowly am less capable of doing them
        Same. I finally figured out I’m not built for it after trying to force it for years. It’s probably due to high lat attachments but I don’t really know. Move on to other exercises. One handed kneeling cable pull downs from the side work better for me. I just wish I made the switch sooner but I resisted because they look goofy.

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I like to do them post pull ups & with the close grip attachment for volume

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Stop leaning back so much. The more vertical the better.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I only just started leaning back because some guru on youtube said you needed to poke out your chest and smash your sternum with the bar.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Nah puffed out is rear delts pullups are for strength, lean back for hypertrophy. Squeeze your abs for lats even then lats is 90 degree bb rows reverse for upper regukar for lower mid aka size.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          This statement doesn't even make sense

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Take the perfect form no hypertrophy high lats pullups pill. Itll help your bench and ohp sure but no visible benefit.

            Never get your back stronger than presses itll frick your shit up. Even with drastic overdevelopment its 1month worth of work.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            what he's trying to say is leaning back helps work shoulders, straight up works back

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Lean back with a shoulder width grip for upper back, lean back as you’re pulling the bar down it should be a fluid motion

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Use wrist straps, take a grip width that allows you to actually use your back. Ultra wide can wind up biasing your arms despite what some dyels tell you. Shoulder width is probably close to ideal

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Do Close grip

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >wide grip
    uh oh, you fricked up

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    push your chest forward and keep your elbows in front

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Stay vertical. Engage your lats before you start the lift. When you pull down imagine you're pulling down from your elbows and you are bending the bar in half while you are going through the motion. If you can't engage your lats from the start you need to focus on lighter weight and not ego lifting.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    garbage exercise would avoid. too many dyel doing it with no results despite following the best practices for years. i have been going to the gym for over a decade and have never seen someone's back go from small to not small using this machine.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I can confirm.

      Been at the gym for almost 6 months and my main 2 back lifts have been lat pulldown and seated cable row and I have a shit-tier back

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I can confirm.

      Been at the gym for almost 6 months and my main 2 back lifts have been lat pulldown and seated cable row and I have a shit-tier back

      You are not supposed to only do pulldowns for your back morons

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        For a mainly back exercise, you want to feel your back the most.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >IST hates wide grip now
    did i miss a big redpill?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      it's all the dyels making themselves known

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      it's all the dyels making themselves known

      bro i posted a thread about trying to get gud at wide grip pull ups and all i got was like four or five dyel homosexuals going

      >umm thats bad for your shoulders

      >pull ups arent even that good wide. i mean theres etc etc etc

      homosexuals bro

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Eh, I've done all positions over the years and just prefer chins or neutral. I feel like I get a really tight contraction all the way down at the lower insertion of the lat, and don't really care about the lesser upper back activation because I actually prioritize horizontal pull over vertical anyways.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      IST doesn't lift

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    imagine someone cut your hands off and you had them replaced with hooks and draw from your back

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      This. I pretend my hands are hooks, my arms are chains and I consciously focus on engaging my lats.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    You lean/lay on your back all the time the nerves are desensitized, you wont feel your back until the muscles are actually big enough to feel.

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    it's a shit exercise, just do pull ups

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Because its so easy to do this exercise wrong. Just do pullups and add weight as you progress.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Because its so easy to do this exercise wrong.
      Exactly.
      First, keep your elbow fixed. As soon as you bend, it's a bicep exercise.
      Second, never over extend. As soon as you raise your shoulders, it's a traps exercise.
      Last, Thumbs over, not under. Push elbows forward on the eccentric.

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    close the grip and keep your back tight.

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    probably lifting way too heavy translating into shit form
    lat pulldown is not a powertard machine, you're not supposed to go giga heavy on it

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Use the short straight metal bar instead, underhand grip and pull to the mid-upper chest, just above the crest of the pec. Squeeze and make sure you pull your elbows back.

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I didn't successfully contract my lats until I was like 25

    What finally worked for me was doing unilateral seated cable rows and pulldowns. Unilateral meaning one arm at a time.

    Good luck

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    You gotta play around with all the back exercises available to you and find what works best for you. Doing whatever is "optimal" generally means you're doing what was determined to be optimal in a study on 10 untrained subjects 15 years ago and then repeated endlessly by bro-scientists and influencers. Your body isn't proportioned the same as any of those dudes and your strength and mobility aren't the same as them either so why would the optimal exercises for them be optimal for you?
    Some guys will get a lot out of pulldowns, pulldowns using the pinkies to lead the movement, weighted pullups, etc. Personally, my lats didn't really grow super well until I started doing cross bench bent arm pullovers.

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >keep back straight, pull straight down, zero "rowing" movement
    >don't let your shoulders fully extend at the top or the bottom. keep tension on
    >hold for a second at the bottom
    if you still aren't feeling it you might not be going heavy enough. set a weight you can do 5-8 reps then drop set to failure with half of that weight.

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Chest out, play with hand positions. I see people go wide a lot but I feel more activation near the top of the bar. Also, play with lighter weight until you can tease apart how it feels when you are hitting your lats. Pull it down to your chest, pause and try to tense your back, let it back up slowly.

    Once you've got that stuff settled, teach yourself mental cues. Some respond well if they visualize they are doing pull ups. Another mental cue is to pretend you have holsters on your waist and you're pulling your elbows into the holsters.

    Other workouts you can do to get a feel for lat activation: regular or assisted pull-ups, cable pullovers, single cable pulldown.

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Bb rows get your back inearly bigger just like anything bb except triceps might as well do kickbacks. Hit behind the back on the pec fly station hog that put your thermos on the tricep pushdown hat on the station.

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    love me lat pulldowns, maxed out the machine at 325lbs and couldn't add any more extra weights because it starts smashing off the top of the track

  25. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    That machine only exists so women can feel accomplished. Do pullups

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It's actually for fats who weigh too much to get their chin over a pullup bar. Most pathetic cope is "I'm too big for pullups" I'd attract mires like crazy doing pullups with only 45lbs added at the powershitting gym I used to train at.

  26. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    try neutral grip handle

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Presses and pulls are all about grip translating to shoulder activation smoke more weed drink more. Palm vs knuckles.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        i dont do lat pulldowns for my shoulders

  27. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    i dont really feel the mind muscle connection but i do feel doms in my lats so im just assuming its working.

  28. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Do you feel it in your Teres muscles at all?

  29. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    pullups and superset btn wide pulldown
    fuark

  30. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    shit form leads to shit lifts

  31. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    pull with your elbows, your hands are just hooks used to hold the bar.

  32. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Don't mind me, posting the superior lat exercise. The burn you feel with these >>>>>>>>>>> lat pulldowns

  33. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Try retracting your scapula. Don't even move your arms. Just retract your scapula a few times. Then try retracting your scapula and when your scapula is retracted try moving your elbows done. Don't even focus on the bar. Just your elbows.

  34. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    there is no getting over it, this is a complex movement with heavy bicep involvement. you can't dis-involve biceps but you also can't dis-involve the lats. you can help yourself with tiring the back first by lat isolation (pullovers). you can also wait a few months for mind muscle connection to form.
    or, if you are really smart, you can do lats with zero arm/bicep involvement

  35. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Do less weight with more and slower reps. You need to form a better brain muscle connection to your lats so you actually use them instead of your arms

  36. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You need to go lighter on the weight and really focus on pulling with your back rather than your arms. If the weight is too heavy your arms take over because your back muscles can't handle it, so that's why you need to go lighter on weight until you train your back muscles more.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I started feeling my back more when I stopped thinking about my back, and started thinking about driving my elbows back/down

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >and started thinking about driving my elbows back/down
        That's how I did too, especially with pullups

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Not OP, but I might try less weight in that case. I have the same issues where it just feels like my forearms/grip is failing before anything else.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Weirdly, I've had a better time forming a mind-muscle connection (even out of the gym) after a big trip on shrooms.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I had the opposite happen. Adding weight seemed to click my lats into activating and i have felt them and can isolate them ever since.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >You need to go lighter
      stopped reading there, DYEL advice
      More weight forces all your muscles to activate, so what if your arms get more work too, you got too big of a biceps or something?

  37. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    form

  38. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >I feel my arms fricking dying
    then you have week arms, the exercise corrects you lil bro

  39. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    not going to read thread but if you're a newbie and can't hit a muscle correctly then blast whatever you are hitting first so it can't carry you doing it wrong, in this case "arms"

  40. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    try lat pullovers and learn to connect your lats to the lift
    once you know how to engage lats then you can incorporate it into most lifts (bench, dead, squat included)

  41. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I used to prefer vertical pulls forever, now I prefer the humble row. Back thickness has just become much more appealing to me over the years after getting to a certain lat width

  42. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I never do this exercise cause it's literally always taken. That's how you know it's shit.

  43. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Not enough weight.
    Try doing with something you can barely move.
    Then frop some 10% and do again and push extra 3 after tmfatigue.

    I didnt exactly feel pain in lats but i grew noticeable lats very fast from this exercise alone.
    Arms get tired because you have a weak grip. I never have used straps in my life so got a naturally strong grip, but if you are only developing your grip, or it doesnt matter 4 u, you should use straps

  44. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Any reason to do lat pulldowns over weighted pull ups?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      bump

  45. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Is there any point in doing this if I can just do pull-ups instead?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Don't use arms as much. Start the motion with your shoulders, squeeze the back at the bottom of the report. Do them slower.

      Yes. Lighter weight so you can practice correct form, burn out/ fail better. Do pull-ups then finish with pull downs

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      when you're too weak to do pull up for reps (beginners)
      or when you're too fat to do pull up for reps (powerlards)

  46. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Neutral grip with knurled bar.

  47. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    wide grip lat pull-down is one of the most satisfying workout

  48. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    just do chinups moron

  49. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    try locking your back like a deadlift, then leaning as usual. it's not that hard

  50. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Just use the assisted pull up machine.

  51. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Train the muscle, not the movement mf. The brain-muscle link training for beginners isn't totally a meme, its real

  52. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    try neutral grip. reach as far up possible.
    (guy in the video has the thing backwards though, so turn it around so the end of the handles are facing the machine)

  53. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    do it very slowly and deliberately without too much weight, just enough to feel it
    change how far your leaning back, change grip, try focusing on triggering the right muscles
    you need to develop self-consciousness around your muscles
    you need to know if the muscle is being activated or not
    once you know how you need to do the exercise to hit the muscles you're trying to hit, then go ham

    you're most likely doing the exercise with your arms

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      another alternative is doing an exercise without too much room for error
      for example, barbell rows will hit your back no matter what you do, it's just that if you do them without self awareness you'll hit different parts of your back on each rep, and you'll also probably hit your arms a little, which is still fine

      i think some people don't realize this, but a lot of isolation exercises aren't exactly for beginners
      you really need to be aware of your body to get the full benefit, because it's the only way to properly isolate the muscle

  54. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Pulling with your arms, not your back. Imagine your arms are just stuck to the thing and don't do anything. Unless you have really weak forearms, you should feel it mostly in your back if you're pulling it right. If you're feeling it in your arms, you're treating it more like a pull-up or a curl.

  55. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    i always do these behind the head. seems to target lats better and allow less momentum cheating.

  56. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    God damn there are a lot of dickheads and moronic replies itt. Only a few actually addresses the question. One tip is to put your thumb over instead of around the bar like pic related. This will reduce arm involvement. Make sure your core is hyperengaged the whole time and keep your scapula back. This place actually has some good esoteric knowledge but it’s crazy how when it comes to actual lifting advice, despite being fricking opinionated know it alls, 99% of the ‘advice’ on here is absolute trash

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I do this, it makes gripping easier but does jack shit for lat engagement

  57. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What helps me doing any back stuff is crunching my shoulders to the top the rolling them backwards until the are all the way down, then doing a row or pulldown, always felt like i used the muscle doing that

  58. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    honestly I'm sick of wide grip pulldowns being the general recommentation for beginners
    it is one of the easiest lifts to GET THE FORM INCORRECTLY
    please just tell beginners to do bent-over barbell rows instead
    it is the only moronproof enough move that newbies will actually be able to feel the whole muscle mind connection thing with their lats
    wide grip pulldowns are warm up for intermediate guys, or complimentary accessories you do after pull ups
    listen to me if you're still here op, go to the gym tomorrow and try barbell rows
    you will feel actually feel your lats burning for the first time, and you will understand it

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