I was thralling the archive, looking for esoteric lifting knowledge, when I saw a post that mentioned a particular muscle disease.

I was thralling the archive, looking for esoteric lifting knowledge, when I saw a post that mentioned a particular muscle disease. There's this condition called myotonia congenita that causes the people afflicted by it to experience involuntary muscle contractions/cramps. Now the interesting thing here is that hypertrophy is a well established symptom of this condition (pic related).
Basically everybody with this condition is varying levels of jacked, even though their condition prevents them from exercising much, if at all.
Is this irrefutable proof that isometrics and things like those bronze era strongman meme exercises like dynamic tension, light dumbbell system, muscle control, etc. are legit?

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous
    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Maybe a DYEL physique by IST standards, but clearly a notable amount of muscular development.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The lower body is particularly well developed in people with this condition.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Random chick with this disease, calf mogs 99% of this board.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            99,99%, my fella
            holy shit

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          damn his upper back and jaw are chad tier
          feel bad for his balding

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    That is pretty interesting anon

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Having a disease that gives you muscle cramps all the time would be unironic hell.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Indian woman with bigger traps than most dudes.

      Apparently it doesn't actually hurt, it's just "delayed muscle relaxation". When these people clench their hand for example, they can't instantly un-clench it. Instead, it sort of slowly "uncoils". Still sucks when going about your daily life though.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >some people are born with a passive ability get jacked with 0 effort
    Life really isn't fair is it bros

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    very interesting. some calisthenic movements are isometrics, like planking or some of the more gymnastic ones like human flag.

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's a proof of concept, that the fundamental mechanism by which at least isometrics work does in fact work. but it leaves a lot of uncertainty.

    How far do you have to go in replicating what they do to get their results? Do isometrics work, but only if you're literally doing full-body all day every day and occasionally waking up in the middle of the night to do some squeezing too?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That was my thought process as well. If it's involuntary and constant, you'd think ANY type of contraction, whether it be concentric, eccentric or isometric would damage the muscle fibers and cause hypertrophy over time. I'm not sure that that means that isometric contractions are overall better, or even effective for hypertrophy. Eccentrics, followed by concentrics seem to produce far better results.
      I am interested however in how individuals afflicted with this condition respond to exercise. Do they have huge isometric strength because of the constant stimulus? It'd be very interesting to test one of these people within the scope of exercise science.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That was my thought process as well. If it's involuntary and constant, you'd think ANY type of contraction, whether it be concentric, eccentric or isometric would damage the muscle fibers and cause hypertrophy over time. I'm not sure that that means that isometric contractions are overall better, or even effective for hypertrophy. Eccentrics, followed by concentrics seem to produce far better results.
      I am interested however in how individuals afflicted with this condition respond to exercise. Do they have huge isometric strength because of the constant stimulus? It'd be very interesting to test one of these people within the scope of exercise science.

      What I find the most interesting is that this is so at odds with mainstream ideas about hypertrophy e.g. taking the muscle through a full range of motion, going to failure, importance of the eccentric phase, progressive overload, etc. Yet none of that has anything to do with how these people built muscle, so clearly there's some as of yet unknown factor.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That was my thought process as well. If it's involuntary and constant, you'd think ANY type of contraction, whether it be concentric, eccentric or isometric would damage the muscle fibers and cause hypertrophy over time. I'm not sure that that means that isometric contractions are overall better, or even effective for hypertrophy. Eccentrics, followed by concentrics seem to produce far better results.
      I am interested however in how individuals afflicted with this condition respond to exercise. Do they have huge isometric strength because of the constant stimulus? It'd be very interesting to test one of these people within the scope of exercise science.

      [...]
      What I find the most interesting is that this is so at odds with mainstream ideas about hypertrophy e.g. taking the muscle through a full range of motion, going to failure, importance of the eccentric phase, progressive overload, etc. Yet none of that has anything to do with how these people built muscle, so clearly there's some as of yet unknown factor.

      There could always be some confounding variable. Maybe the same genetic defect that causes the contractions has also modified their musculature in other ways. Increased androgen receptors, greater ability to hold water or glucose, etc. so even if you could replicate their “techniques” it wouldn’t work because you don’t have the exact same kinds of muscle cells. Are there any studies examining the muscle tissue itself?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        https://jmhg.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s43042-022-00290-0
        With this particular patient they performed a muscle biopsy and actually examined the tissue. From what I gather the only thing notable here is:
        >"Biochemical analyses showed slight increase in creatine phosphokinase at 404 UI/l (normal < 200 UI/l)
        But to be perfectly honest, I have absolutely no idea what that practically means. Maybe a science autist can give us some insight here.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          https://bmcneurol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12883-019-1360-0
          Another in depth patient case including a biopsy of the muscle tissue, but no clue what any of it means.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Not versed in the science, but a quick google search seems to show that elevated creatine phosphokinase levels are assosciated with exercise. So they're basically exercising their muscle involuntarily.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I saved that OP for future research as well. I think myotenia congenita may be proof that systems like nucleus overload DO in fact work.

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    first actual good thread in months

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I think all muscle growth is due to tension. Basically imagine a rubber band getting stretched repeatedly and it slowly losing it's tensile resistance due to this (meaning it's more likely to snap), but apply it to an organism which can adapt to this stress so that it can better resist the tension. What goes on in any contraction, whether it's eccentric, isometric, concentric, or even just stretching, is tension. Take an isometric contraction for example, that which the muscle pulls doesn't move, yet the muscle is still shortening, this causes tension. To use the rubber band analogy, it would be as if you have a rubber band which was fixed at both ends, but at one of the ends you pull to "shorten" the band while it still remains fixed. Take a passive stretch as another example, in this instance it's the weight of the stretch that's pulling the muscle apart in the same way you would pull a rubber band apart.

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I get the most gains from longer endurance focused exercises like you described. Lifting heavy short sets has never worked for me. If I don't work a muscle group for a solid hour a day I don't see growth.

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >isometrics
    overcoming isometrics HAS to work
    It makes sense it doesnt
    Even if the main muscle doesnt grow (which I dont see why) you still have the muscles that "transfer" the force and it's bones that receive all of that stress
    makes no sense it doesnt work tbqhwy

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Isometrics are known to work, and are quite good too. They’re also great for increasing strength. Even flexing can build muscle really.

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Is this irrefutable proof that isometrics and things like those bronze era strongman meme exercises like dynamic tension, light dumbbell system, muscle control, etc. are legit?
    Yes
    Isometrics work

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    When I was maybe 14ish I was bored trying to work out in a hotel room and wound up just clenching my glutes as hard as I could for a really long time, maybe half an hour.
    That and the days after it were the worst muscle soreness I’ve ever gotten to this day.
    If I had this disease I’d probably die or get addicted to heroin to make the pain stop.
    There used to be an infomercial for a waist belt that basically had a TENS machine to force-contract your abs that “worked” on this logic.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >If I had this disease I’d probably die or get addicted to heroin to make the pain stop.
      But if its pain of soreness, it'll eventually go away, or at the very least be tolerable. I still don't understand if it's the cramp kind of pain, which I felt once, very long time ago, but since it was in the middle of the night, I remember it veeeeery vividly.

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How would I go about implementing this?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's what we're trying to figure out brother. But if this is legit, just regular isometrics (i.e. static contractions) at high volume could perhaps simulate what these people experience.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'm imagining squeezing for 30 minutes every day, maybe twice or thrice a day, and keep like that otherwise it becomes impossible to actually do anything.
        Also:
        squeezing the fists and buttocks can help have tension throughout your whole body, at least in my case, everything tenses up if I focus on contracting glutes and forearms

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