I know one Estonian guy who is in top shape in his 40s and is vegan. He eats a shit tonne and is supposedly not on gear. Super cool dude.
Every other vegan I know is a hungry skelly including a semi vegan ny garden gnomeess I was banging for awhile. She used to have big tits and great figure, veganism is a mental illness.
Jacked vegans are all lying about their steroid use, and honestly half of them are probably lying about their veganism
Vegetarianism on the other hand is totally doable. Most of the old school silver age bodybuilders were vegetarians. Just drink a lot of milk, eat a lot of eggs.
I'm vegetarian for 14 years now, first half was vegan. Been lifting weights since two years, with some bodyweight stuff done prior to that. I have hit 60kg 1rm on ohp and 100kg on bench, max deadlift 160kg, havent squatted heavy lately. 32yo. R8 pls
vegan no, even those who blast like Baboumian have a shit physique
vegetarian yes, even natty, since you have milk, whey, eggs...etc so most of the essential nutrients are covered and you get enough protein
careful about iron though
It depends what you mean by a good physique. If you consider ottermode as a good physique definitely.
Now if we're talking raw veganism - raw veganism will get any person to a skelly status and they will look and feel great. They won't be skellyfat, because raw veganism is very, very natural. It's a shame that they don't add a little bit of meat now and then and then it would be close to an ideal diet other than being unable to pile on the muscle.
>eating a banana and grapes is not natural >eating the remains of an animal that was pumped full of antibiotics and lactation hormones and if you didn't cook it at high temperature would run a huge risk of severe poisoning from the pathogens that have invaded its carcass is natural
the sweet, seedless bananas you eat were selectively bred by humans over thousands of years. wild bananas look like this, taste like absolute shit and eating the seeds will give you intestinal occlusion.
same for grapes, they were selected for palatability for over 10,000 years. literally all the fruit you eat except for some wild berries are the result of thousands of years of human work. there's nothing natural about this.
also a lot of the things in your picture are absolute garbage. "weak hydrochloric acid" while humans have among the strongest stomach acid in the animal kingdom (on par with scavengers) for example
and the fact that modern amerimutts eat industrial meat that's pumped with garbage doesn't invalidate the fact that cooked meat has been the main part of the human diet that's allowed us to evolve into beings intelligent enough to later on invent agriculture and animal breeding.
Want to know why the banana keeps getting cited? Because it's literally the only example of a fruit that has been heavily selected like that. The vast majority of other fruit are pretty much exactly the same.
Even if bananas have been selected for, other primates select for fruit all the time (by eating them, enjoying them and spreading their seeds) and it has generally been a fairly natural course that they came that way. Think about how humans would tend to eat the best tasting bananas in ancient times - therefore selecting just like they have co-evolved to eat all kinds of other foods.
So no despite the carnivore fantasy fruits don't actually taste awful as just mother nature's big "fuck-you!" to humans and the other primates that eat them as 90% of their diet, they taste delicious to them. Figs tasted just as sweet in biblical times as we heard from adam and eve and they do in the wild today. Stop lying or falling for lies and read pic-related.
>continued
I should add that this has been a common GMO propaganda push as well, that fruit and vegetables aren't like their ancestors, this idea that everything is some artificial thing anyway. Good job gobbling down that Monsanto scat.
>continued
I should add that this has been a common GMO propaganda push as well, that fruit and vegetables aren't like their ancestors, this idea that everything is some artificial thing anyway. Good job gobbling down that Monsanto scat.
>Wild fruit doesn't have the same amount of sugar and sweetness as what you find in the supermarket - it has MORE:
in far lower quantities and lowered palability. good luck harvesting 3000 kcal worth of fruits daily year round. also here's a wild avocado. practically the same, except you need 20 of them to match a single Hass avocado in terms of edible quantity.
I'm not saying humans before agriculture didn't eat fruit, they just were like 10% of their diet, because they're absolutely not available year round and provide very little calories rewarded per calorie spent harvesting, as opposed to game.
it's also hilarious that we're somehow the only frugivores that can't climb fucking trees without risking death. however we're excellent at throwing, for no reason at all of course.
and I could go on and on why comparing humans to other primates is pants on head retarded : we have a completely different digestive system, we can't eat our own shit without poisoning ourselves, we have completely different stomach acid...etc
and there's a whole list of essential nutrients that are impossible to extract from plants in sufficient quantities : B12 sure, but also creatine, DHA, carnosine...etc
2 months ago
Anonymous
>. good luck harvesting 3000 kcal worth of fruits daily year round.
NTA, but fruits aren't the only plant food - a single mature walnut tree produces 80-160kg of walnuts every year. That's over 100,000,000kcal. And nuts don't spoil when stored in a dry place.
An oak tree as young as 100 years old can produce 10,000 acorns per year - an older tree can produce closer to 1 million acorns per year. At around 60kcal per acorn, that's 600,000 - 60,000,000kcal per tree, per year. And acorns, again, don't spoil when stored somewhere dry.
I'm not arguing that humans did or should eat only plant foods, but the evidence is clear that plant foods have always been an important part of the diet, along with animal foods.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>because they're absolutely not available year round
Not true - in tropical forrests there are certain types of fruit available all year around. There's no "winter" in these places. Orangutan mothers bring their kids around with them for years showing them all the different fruits and when/how to pick them. Just because you had no orangutan guru to show you around in your early years doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
>and provide very little calories rewarded per calorie spent harvesting,
"harvesting" is a concept of civilization. You pick fruit, you don't "harvest" it.
>as opposed to game. >however we're excellent at throwing, for no reason at all of course.
yeah, cause put you in the wild and you'll be throwing rocks at animals to kill and eat them in no time. So much easier way of getting food than picking fruit.
>it's also hilarious that we're somehow the only frugivores that can't climb fucking trees without risking death.
The jungle canopy is dense and the leaves of other trees will be there to break your fall and give you something to grab a hold of.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>In tropical forests
good thing humans evolved outside of those >orangutans
good thing humans are a completely different species
also you're nitpicking on the term I used instead of refuting that you'll never ever pick fruit faster than someone hunting a single big game animal to provide enough food for the week if not more
>yeah, cause put you in the wild and you'll be throwing rocks at animals to kill and eat them in no time.
and put you in the wild and you'll be carefully selecting the plants that won't make you shit yourself to death >break your fall
jesus christ this level of cope. humans lost their tails for a reason. we're not fit to climb trees, at all.
>. good luck harvesting 3000 kcal worth of fruits daily year round.
NTA, but fruits aren't the only plant food - a single mature walnut tree produces 80-160kg of walnuts every year. That's over 100,000,000kcal. And nuts don't spoil when stored in a dry place.
An oak tree as young as 100 years old can produce 10,000 acorns per year - an older tree can produce closer to 1 million acorns per year. At around 60kcal per acorn, that's 600,000 - 60,000,000kcal per tree, per year. And acorns, again, don't spoil when stored somewhere dry.
I'm not arguing that humans did or should eat only plant foods, but the evidence is clear that plant foods have always been an important part of the diet, along with animal foods.
that's in optimal conditions, you're not accounting for bugs and other animals, let alone plant disease that severely impact productivity
2 months ago
Anonymous
>that's in optimal conditions, you're not accounting for bugs and other animals, let alone plant disease that severely impact productivity
We're also talking about individual trees - the ancient world was literally covered in trees producing all manner of edible and extremely calorie dense nuts and drupes and legumes. It's simply not correct to say that it would have been impossible or difficult to gather enough calories in the form of plant foods.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>the ancient world was literally covered in trees producing all manner of edible and extremely calorie dense nuts and drupes and legumes
No it wasn't.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>I have no idea but I imagined it differently and really want to to conform to my carnivore fantasy world, I'll say "no it didn't" and see what he says.
2 months ago
Anonymous
So oak and beech trees etc are all recent inventions too?
2 months ago
Anonymous
Try eating acorns, retard.
2 months ago
Anonymous
I have. Grind them into little pieces, soak them in water for a few hours then roast with salt + pepper.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Careful. The dental remains of the plains indians who ate acorns regularly were abysmal.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Well, we have floss+toothbrushes for a reason. Not a good idea to let any starchy foods sit in your teeth for hours.
>thinks there are wild bananas not made by mankind left
The bananas that used to exist went extinct, retard.
2 months ago
Anonymous
What an almost unbelievably retarded thing to say.
2 months ago
Anonymous
Bananas are the mutts of the fruit world. Of course original bananas and all of their ancestors are extinct. You can't find it anywhere. You can only find current muttoid cultivars and some escaping into the wild. Bananas pre-humanity just aren't with us.
yeah that's what I thought. The mask of having a clue about things you're just parroting because of the latest midwit propaganda tends to fall pretty rapidly around here when confronted with actual facts and logic (which is still a lot better of course than people insisting on dragging it out).
Picture claims chewing is "necessary" for humans but this depends entirely on what you're eating. As tool users and with cooking, we "pre chew" our food by chopping, mashing and dessicating it, and predigest food by cooking it.
The picture claims human saliva is alkaline/basic, but our saliva can be slightly acidic to slightly alkali and tends to hover around a neutral pH.
The picture claims that omnivores (such as bears and pigs/boars) do not have salivary amylase (ptyallin): both do, although the carnivorous polar bear has fewer copies of the genes for this than its southern cousins.
The picture claims that humans require fibre to stimulate peristalsis: this is false. Many people eat little or no fibre and have no trouble with the passage of their chyme.
The picture claims the human colon is acidic: it is in fact highly alkaline in the lower colon/large intestine, though acidic in the small intestine.
The picture claims human urine is alkaline: it is more commonly acidic but can be neutral or slightly alkaline.
Most of the rest of the claims are superficial physiological features that have no direct bearing on our diet, but are simply reflective of the fact that our distant ancestors were brachiating frugivores.
I asked before but do any of you gays have the opposite image still saved on their PC? I understand that it's rare because rightoids are lazy and left-wing shilling is extremely prevalent on IST in the current year, but at least one of you has to have the image saved. I regret deleting it off my drive. Very short-sighted.
No, and if they do have a good physique, it's from eating meat in the past.
There are a good amount, ESPECIALLY VEGETARIANS, but a few genetic outliers on steroids doesn't signify the health and longevity of a way of eating.
Yeah you can just go to instagram and instantly find hundreds of them in a few clicks
digits and OP gets range banned for being a moron
I know one Estonian guy who is in top shape in his 40s and is vegan. He eats a shit tonne and is supposedly not on gear. Super cool dude.
Every other vegan I know is a hungry skelly including a semi vegan ny garden gnomeess I was banging for awhile. She used to have big tits and great figure, veganism is a mental illness.
Jacked vegans are all lying about their steroid use, and honestly half of them are probably lying about their veganism
Vegetarianism on the other hand is totally doable. Most of the old school silver age bodybuilders were vegetarians. Just drink a lot of milk, eat a lot of eggs.
Err
I meant to say the bronze age bodybuilders were vegetarians
The silver age bodybuilders ate meat
I'm vegetarian for 14 years now, first half was vegan. Been lifting weights since two years, with some bodyweight stuff done prior to that. I have hit 60kg 1rm on ohp and 100kg on bench, max deadlift 160kg, havent squatted heavy lately. 32yo. R8 pls
Underdeveloped chest, get on it.
Was looking like a 17 year old boy for life part of your plan?
You achieved a couple months of linear progression in two years, awesome. Do SS and gain 30 pounds.
yes but they're all on gear
vegan no, even those who blast like Baboumian have a shit physique
vegetarian yes, even natty, since you have milk, whey, eggs...etc so most of the essential nutrients are covered and you get enough protein
careful about iron though
It depends what you mean by a good physique. If you consider ottermode as a good physique definitely.
Now if we're talking raw veganism - raw veganism will get any person to a skelly status and they will look and feel great. They won't be skellyfat, because raw veganism is very, very natural. It's a shame that they don't add a little bit of meat now and then and then it would be close to an ideal diet other than being unable to pile on the muscle.
>raw veganism is very, very natural
>eating a banana and grapes is not natural
>eating the remains of an animal that was pumped full of antibiotics and lactation hormones and if you didn't cook it at high temperature would run a huge risk of severe poisoning from the pathogens that have invaded its carcass is natural
the sweet, seedless bananas you eat were selectively bred by humans over thousands of years. wild bananas look like this, taste like absolute shit and eating the seeds will give you intestinal occlusion.
same for grapes, they were selected for palatability for over 10,000 years. literally all the fruit you eat except for some wild berries are the result of thousands of years of human work. there's nothing natural about this.
also a lot of the things in your picture are absolute garbage. "weak hydrochloric acid" while humans have among the strongest stomach acid in the animal kingdom (on par with scavengers) for example
and the fact that modern amerimutts eat industrial meat that's pumped with garbage doesn't invalidate the fact that cooked meat has been the main part of the human diet that's allowed us to evolve into beings intelligent enough to later on invent agriculture and animal breeding.
Carnivore propaganda garbage.
Wild fruit doesn't have the same amount of sugar and sweetness as what you find in the supermarket - it has MORE:
https://deniseminger.com/2011/05/31/wild-and-ancient-fruit/
Want to know why the banana keeps getting cited? Because it's literally the only example of a fruit that has been heavily selected like that. The vast majority of other fruit are pretty much exactly the same.
Even if bananas have been selected for, other primates select for fruit all the time (by eating them, enjoying them and spreading their seeds) and it has generally been a fairly natural course that they came that way. Think about how humans would tend to eat the best tasting bananas in ancient times - therefore selecting just like they have co-evolved to eat all kinds of other foods.
So no despite the carnivore fantasy fruits don't actually taste awful as just mother nature's big "fuck-you!" to humans and the other primates that eat them as 90% of their diet, they taste delicious to them. Figs tasted just as sweet in biblical times as we heard from adam and eve and they do in the wild today. Stop lying or falling for lies and read pic-related.
>continued
I should add that this has been a common GMO propaganda push as well, that fruit and vegetables aren't like their ancestors, this idea that everything is some artificial thing anyway. Good job gobbling down that Monsanto scat.
Saved, thx anon
>Wild fruit doesn't have the same amount of sugar and sweetness as what you find in the supermarket - it has MORE:
in far lower quantities and lowered palability. good luck harvesting 3000 kcal worth of fruits daily year round. also here's a wild avocado. practically the same, except you need 20 of them to match a single Hass avocado in terms of edible quantity.
I'm not saying humans before agriculture didn't eat fruit, they just were like 10% of their diet, because they're absolutely not available year round and provide very little calories rewarded per calorie spent harvesting, as opposed to game.
it's also hilarious that we're somehow the only frugivores that can't climb fucking trees without risking death. however we're excellent at throwing, for no reason at all of course.
and I could go on and on why comparing humans to other primates is pants on head retarded : we have a completely different digestive system, we can't eat our own shit without poisoning ourselves, we have completely different stomach acid...etc
and there's a whole list of essential nutrients that are impossible to extract from plants in sufficient quantities : B12 sure, but also creatine, DHA, carnosine...etc
>. good luck harvesting 3000 kcal worth of fruits daily year round.
NTA, but fruits aren't the only plant food - a single mature walnut tree produces 80-160kg of walnuts every year. That's over 100,000,000kcal. And nuts don't spoil when stored in a dry place.
An oak tree as young as 100 years old can produce 10,000 acorns per year - an older tree can produce closer to 1 million acorns per year. At around 60kcal per acorn, that's 600,000 - 60,000,000kcal per tree, per year. And acorns, again, don't spoil when stored somewhere dry.
I'm not arguing that humans did or should eat only plant foods, but the evidence is clear that plant foods have always been an important part of the diet, along with animal foods.
>because they're absolutely not available year round
Not true - in tropical forrests there are certain types of fruit available all year around. There's no "winter" in these places. Orangutan mothers bring their kids around with them for years showing them all the different fruits and when/how to pick them. Just because you had no orangutan guru to show you around in your early years doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
>and provide very little calories rewarded per calorie spent harvesting,
"harvesting" is a concept of civilization. You pick fruit, you don't "harvest" it.
>as opposed to game.
>however we're excellent at throwing, for no reason at all of course.
yeah, cause put you in the wild and you'll be throwing rocks at animals to kill and eat them in no time. So much easier way of getting food than picking fruit.
>it's also hilarious that we're somehow the only frugivores that can't climb fucking trees without risking death.
The jungle canopy is dense and the leaves of other trees will be there to break your fall and give you something to grab a hold of.
>In tropical forests
good thing humans evolved outside of those
>orangutans
good thing humans are a completely different species
also you're nitpicking on the term I used instead of refuting that you'll never ever pick fruit faster than someone hunting a single big game animal to provide enough food for the week if not more
>yeah, cause put you in the wild and you'll be throwing rocks at animals to kill and eat them in no time.
and put you in the wild and you'll be carefully selecting the plants that won't make you shit yourself to death
>break your fall
jesus christ this level of cope. humans lost their tails for a reason. we're not fit to climb trees, at all.
that's in optimal conditions, you're not accounting for bugs and other animals, let alone plant disease that severely impact productivity
>that's in optimal conditions, you're not accounting for bugs and other animals, let alone plant disease that severely impact productivity
We're also talking about individual trees - the ancient world was literally covered in trees producing all manner of edible and extremely calorie dense nuts and drupes and legumes. It's simply not correct to say that it would have been impossible or difficult to gather enough calories in the form of plant foods.
>the ancient world was literally covered in trees producing all manner of edible and extremely calorie dense nuts and drupes and legumes
No it wasn't.
>I have no idea but I imagined it differently and really want to to conform to my carnivore fantasy world, I'll say "no it didn't" and see what he says.
So oak and beech trees etc are all recent inventions too?
Try eating acorns, retard.
I have. Grind them into little pieces, soak them in water for a few hours then roast with salt + pepper.
Careful. The dental remains of the plains indians who ate acorns regularly were abysmal.
Well, we have floss+toothbrushes for a reason. Not a good idea to let any starchy foods sit in your teeth for hours.
>thinks there are wild bananas not made by mankind left
The bananas that used to exist went extinct, retard.
What an almost unbelievably retarded thing to say.
Bananas are the mutts of the fruit world. Of course original bananas and all of their ancestors are extinct. You can't find it anywhere. You can only find current muttoid cultivars and some escaping into the wild. Bananas pre-humanity just aren't with us.
munch on deez nuts gay
yeah that's what I thought. The mask of having a clue about things you're just parroting because of the latest midwit propaganda tends to fall pretty rapidly around here when confronted with actual facts and logic (which is still a lot better of course than people insisting on dragging it out).
>actual facts and logic
bro, you can't just invent the term "physiological food" and decide that your retarded steve jobs-killing diet is correct.
>this shit again
Human stomach pH isn't 4-5
Picture claims chewing is "necessary" for humans but this depends entirely on what you're eating. As tool users and with cooking, we "pre chew" our food by chopping, mashing and dessicating it, and predigest food by cooking it.
The picture claims human saliva is alkaline/basic, but our saliva can be slightly acidic to slightly alkali and tends to hover around a neutral pH.
The picture claims that omnivores (such as bears and pigs/boars) do not have salivary amylase (ptyallin): both do, although the carnivorous polar bear has fewer copies of the genes for this than its southern cousins.
The picture claims that humans require fibre to stimulate peristalsis: this is false. Many people eat little or no fibre and have no trouble with the passage of their chyme.
The picture claims the human colon is acidic: it is in fact highly alkaline in the lower colon/large intestine, though acidic in the small intestine.
The picture claims human urine is alkaline: it is more commonly acidic but can be neutral or slightly alkaline.
Most of the rest of the claims are superficial physiological features that have no direct bearing on our diet, but are simply reflective of the fact that our distant ancestors were brachiating frugivores.
I asked before but do any of you gays have the opposite image still saved on their PC? I understand that it's rare because rightoids are lazy and left-wing shilling is extremely prevalent on IST in the current year, but at least one of you has to have the image saved. I regret deleting it off my drive. Very short-sighted.
also this is what you look like when you eat nothing but fruit for 3 years.
No, sadly, they spend their days on discord, reddit, and IST instead of lifting.