Is this concept complete bullshit or underestimated?

I don't feel my muscles at all when I train, just a slight pump after the exercise, but not very strong. Some people told me it might be due to poor MMC. What do you think?

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  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Your brain is controlling your muscles so i don't know why anyone would say its bullshit

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      They say that you need to focus on the muscle worked by your exercise when you do an exercise in order to feel it, and that you MUST feel your muscles working otherwise you're doing the movement wrong.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        That is absolutely correct. However, apparently when mind-muscle-connection is mentioned, people tend to just visualize the muscle in their mind, instead of actually adjusting to battle the resistance with the particular muscle, or set of. Weird to explain really, but you can definitely tell a lot of people at the gym are just moving weights around and mimicking what they see others do, instead of putting some thought into the particular exercise and adjusting their own biomechanic(within the limits of the safe)to hit the targeted muscles.

        See dumbbell rows are a great example. I have yet to see someone do this exercise correct from someone - they just bend over, grab a dumb and swing it up and down several times(as many as the routine article told them).

        Usually though, if not training mindlessly and instead actually putting in mental effort to understand what and how, it should start making sense within the first few months.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          I've been doing lifting for nearly 2 years now and, ever since I started, I've had terrible difficulty feeling my muscles. No muscle group is really spared, even if some are worse than others (chest and back mainly are the worse). I generally come out with pump in the right locations, but I never feel any burn DURING the exercise.

          Do you think it's possible that I've been doing all my exercises incorrectly for 2 years without exception? My form has already been checked by friends of mine who are very good, so I don't know what more I can do.

          If lifting is all about subtle intricacies and one wrong finger brings down all our efforts, then I don't want to hear anyone saying that lifting is a practice for brainless people ever again!

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            It takes real focus to develop. You're talking about some real monk mind type shit. I work in kinesiology and body scanning & meditation are the most common recommendations exactly because this is more on the mind side of things. You're probabaly not doing your exercises wrong, but we're talking about a connection to your body that even some pro athletes have trouble developing.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              The main question to ask yourself is: is it NECESSARY to feel your muscles? Whether it's a good indicator of whether you're doing things right, whether you're working the muscle well, etc., yes, I admit that. But is NOT having this signal necessarily a BAD sign?

              I ask this question because after a year of lifting, some people have told me that not feeling anything was worrying (in the sense that it's understandable for someone to find it hard to feel in the first few weeks, but not after 1 year) and that I needed to solve this problem. So I took on a PT I knew from a lifting forum, who gave me a routine specifically aimed at improving this mind/muscle connection, with slow tempo exercises and lighter loads, where each phase of the movement was broken down.

              Honestly, I understood some of the conceptual stuff, but I never managed to feel my back and pecs (except once with the bench press at a very light weight where my brain seemed to have unlocked the ‘push with chest’ skill that day and my pecs burned really well, but I couldn't reproduce that feat the next session). In short, I had a few micro-results, but not enough to encourage me to continue this routine. So I gave up this routine and went back to a more traditional one based on progressive overload and hypertrophy, but I'm wondering if I did the right thing

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                I think theres a great variability when it comes to those things between individuals, theres no RIGHT way to feel something, people interpret physical signals in different ways.

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Mind-muscle connection refers to the conscious and deliberate focus on a specific muscle or group of muscles during exercise, not necessarily your sensory feedback, like pump sensation. The concept involves mentally visualizing and concentrating on the muscle being worked, which can enhance muscle activation and improve the effectiveness of the exercise. By focusing on the muscle contraction and the movement, individuals can achieve better muscle engagement, leading to more efficient workouts and greater gains.
    >What do you think?
    Things like visualization & meditation has pretty much been conclusively proven to increases athletic performance. Greater performance = greater gains, simple as that. There are lots of ways you can try to improve your kinesthetic awareness. Mindfullness exercises like meditation, body scanning, etc. But if shit like that is too esoteric for you, the simplest thing... Lift in front of a mirror. Lol. For real. Most lifters don't even realize they're working on their MMC when they're doing that.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Cont.
      My favorite or most effective technique is tactile feedback. Before & after doing a set, I will touch the area being worked. Gently massage the origins/insertions of the muscle group & trace striations. Close your eyes and visualize your deconstructed anatomical model while doing it. Also, bit more of a psyche hype thing but, I like to imagine that it's like robotic or something. Like my muscles are steel cables instead. It's nerdy but it works for me.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Mind-muscle connection refers to the conscious and deliberate focus on a specific muscle or group of muscles during exercise, not necessarily your sensory feedback, like pump sensation. The concept involves mentally visualizing and concentrating on the muscle being worked, which can enhance muscle activation and improve the effectiveness of the exercise. By focusing on the muscle contraction and the movement, individuals can achieve better muscle engagement, leading to more efficient workouts and greater gains.

      This is just bro science

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        I mean the appropriate terms are kinesiology & sports psychology, but, yeah, your point?

        The main question to ask yourself is: is it NECESSARY to feel your muscles? Whether it's a good indicator of whether you're doing things right, whether you're working the muscle well, etc., yes, I admit that. But is NOT having this signal necessarily a BAD sign?

        I ask this question because after a year of lifting, some people have told me that not feeling anything was worrying (in the sense that it's understandable for someone to find it hard to feel in the first few weeks, but not after 1 year) and that I needed to solve this problem. So I took on a PT I knew from a lifting forum, who gave me a routine specifically aimed at improving this mind/muscle connection, with slow tempo exercises and lighter loads, where each phase of the movement was broken down.

        Honestly, I understood some of the conceptual stuff, but I never managed to feel my back and pecs (except once with the bench press at a very light weight where my brain seemed to have unlocked the ‘push with chest’ skill that day and my pecs burned really well, but I couldn't reproduce that feat the next session). In short, I had a few micro-results, but not enough to encourage me to continue this routine. So I gave up this routine and went back to a more traditional one based on progressive overload and hypertrophy, but I'm wondering if I did the right thing

        >But is NOT having this signal necessarily a BAD sign?
        I am an AT, well AT in training, but, so if you're my client, I am going to reassure you that it's not BAD. However, I am going to consistently keep working on it with you because there is bulk of science supporting the concept and it's a potential avenue for improvement. But it's nothing to seriously fret over. I have worked with D1 athletes that say the exact same thing as you.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          My point was that there's no evidence that "feeling your muscle" better than someone else, whatever the frick that means, brings any advantage in terms of workout efficiency or greater gains.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >https://www.verywellfit.com/visualization-techniques-for-athletes-3119438
            >https://www.drdevroy.com/visualization-in-sport-and-exercise/
            >https://www.verywellfit.com/can-you-build-strength-with-visualization-exercises-3120698
            >https://www.scienceabbey.com/2018/10/24/power-of-the-mind-the-science-of-visualization-1/
            >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26700744/
            Except there is... But yeah go ahead and casually dismiss an entire industry of people employed by every professional sports team & athletic institution in the world.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26700744/
              we're jsut gonna ignore that the 4 first links have nothing to do with mind muscle connection, its about visualization which is a totally different thing

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >4 first links have nothing to do with mind muscle connection
                >visualization which is a totally different thing
                You're a moron and don't know what you're talking about just google it. Visualization is an exercise that helps with intentional focus.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >visualization
                visualization is a mental process that lets you envision a future event, it trains your mind, it has no effect on your physiology, you said earlier that IT WOULD have an effect on muscle gains, WTF is your evidence for this moronic claim??

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Read the articles instead of just sperging & you might find out dipshit.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4974856/
                There, there is a study that's more on the nose since you're a lazy whining homosexual that wants to be spoonfed. But I am posting this mostly so it will help the people I believe are smart enough to understand it. Which isn't you.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                you're a scammer

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Its literally right there in the title of the study moron.
                >Effects of Mental Imagery on Muscular Strength in Healthy and Patient Participants: A Systematic Review
                I am a kinesiology undergrad, sorry you're too stupid to understand extremely basic science such as the effect of psychological states on physical performance. But it's not scam. If it is, then as I said, its one that every pro sports team & every major athletic institution takes part in. Sport psychology is not a scam. Kinesiology is not a scam.

                Sorry if I created any misunderstanding (OP here, just in case it wasn't clear). English is not my first language, so maybe I have some awkward phrasing.

                Indeed, when people talk about the mind-muscle connection, I believe there are two dimensions often mentioned: the muscle sensations during the exercise and the awareness of one's own body (also called "proprioception"). This involves understanding how your body performs the exercise, like how the back is engaged during pull-ups, and focusing on it during back exercises. In fact, people believe that the lack of proprioception leads to the lack of sensations. Therefore, you need to work on your proprioception to generate sensations.

                No problem and you're right proprioception plays a big part in it. I also agree that a greater anatomical knowledge of the body does somewhat increase sensory perception. "Out of sight, out of mind," is very true.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >No problem and you're right proprioception plays a big part in it. I also agree that a greater anatomical knowledge of the body does somewhat increase sensory perception. "Out of sight, out of mind," is very true.

                The problem, for me, is that saying the bench press works the chest muscles is inaccurate. It’s not the chest muscles that lift the weight, but the arms. In fact, for me, all upper body exercises are arm exercises that "incidentally" or contingently involve other muscles. It’s not the chest muscles that lift the weight because they don't have little arms. At no point does my back come into contact with the bars on which I hang my hands during pull-ups, for example.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >The problem, for me, is that saying the bench press works the chest muscles is inaccurate. It’s not the chest muscles that lift the weight, but the arms. In fact, for me, all upper body exercises are arm exercises that "incidentally" or contingently involve other muscles. It’s not the chest muscles that lift the weight because they don't have little arms. At no point does my back come into contact with the bars on which I hang my hands during pull-ups, for example.

                This is the wildest thing ive read on this site so far

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Yes, I know it sounds stupid, I'm terribly ashamed of myself.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >No problem and you're right proprioception plays a big part in it. I also agree that a greater anatomical knowledge of the body does somewhat increase sensory perception. "Out of sight, out of mind," is very true.

                The problem, for me, is that saying the bench press works the chest muscles is inaccurate. It’s not the chest muscles that lift the weight, but the arms. In fact, for me, all upper body exercises are arm exercises that "incidentally" or contingently involve other muscles. It’s not the chest muscles that lift the weight because they don't have little arms. At no point does my back come into contact with the bars on which I hang my hands during pull-ups, for example.

                >saying the bench press works the chest muscles is inaccurate
                That is anatomically incorrect. It is entirely accurate to say bench press works chest. You totally lost me here bro. Lolwut? Perhaps you feel it more in your arms is what you mean?

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                For me, there are only two types of exercises: arm exercises and leg exercises. All upper body exercises require gripping the bar (or dumbbell) with the arms, so I don't see how the movement could be performed without using the arms. The same goes for leg exercises.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                ...And the arms are attached too... I am genuinely confused. Your chest is what converges your arms when you bench press. Your triceps only extends your elbow. You CANNOT bench press without the use of your chest.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Yes, the pecs are stretched and contracted, but for me, that's more incidental than anything else; it's not the main point. Saying that the chest muscles are engaged during the exercise is fine, but they are engaged to a much lesser extent compared to the arms. Saying that the chest muscles do the exercise is incorrect. If I didn't have arms, I couldn't do it! I could contract my chest muscles in the air, but I couldn't do a bench press because the bar wouldn't be prehensile.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Well, I dont know what to tell you. Yes obviously you couldn't bench press without arms but you're wrong. The activation of the chest is not 'incidental'. You would literally not be able to perform that movement without your pecs if I could just flip a switch and disable them. Or atleast you would do significantly less weight relying entirely on your delts for chest flexion. Without being insulting, I think you would benefit from studying anatomy. I think it would greatly help your kinesthetic awareness. Typically your chest does the lions share of the work in a bench press. I think your arms may be bottlenecking your chest. This is when 1 or more smaller muscle groups in a compound movement are weaker than the main muscle group, preventing sufficient activation to really "feel it," either that or perhaps your form is off.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >You would literally not be able to perform that movement without your pecs if I could just flip a switch and disable them

                Yes, that's something I've often been told, and I find it very curious. For me, it's totally counterintuitive. Before I started lifting, I thought all exercises worked the arms because they all require gripping with the hands. I have a hard time imagining that the pectorals "lift" something; to me, they seem passive rather than active. I guess it's a question of how it's phrased.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                no one in the history of the world has achieved bigger muscles because of visualization, thats nonsense, i agree that visualization helps with upcoming events but it dosent give you MORE muscles stop propagating this garbage pseudoscience

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Better performance(better lifts) = better gains. You're literally moronic jfc.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                So, you didn't even read the systematic review

                >https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4974856/
                There, there is a study that's more on the nose since you're a lazy whining homosexual that wants to be spoonfed. But I am posting this mostly so it will help the people I believe are smart enough to understand it. Which isn't you.

                that says you're assblastingly wrong.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          If you think it’s important to work on this skill, it means there are specific benefits associated with sensations. Otherwise, if someone tells you they don't feel anything, you would have no advice for them. From a formal logic standpoint, if sensations = absence of sensations, then you should treat the client who has sensations and the client who doesn't have sensations the same way, with the same discourse and recommendations.

          If those who don’t have sensations have work to do to achieve sensations (thus becoming members of the first category, those who feel their muscles), it means there is a gap to fill. In this sense, we can say not only that feeling = good sign, but not feeling = bad sign, because it indicates a penalty, an absent skill that needs to be developed. But what exactly does this skill bring?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >feeling = good sign, but not feeling = bad sign
            It would be more accurate to say that "feeling it" is better. But as I said...

            Mind-muscle connection refers to the conscious and deliberate focus on a specific muscle or group of muscles during exercise, not necessarily your sensory feedback, like pump sensation. The concept involves mentally visualizing and concentrating on the muscle being worked, which can enhance muscle activation and improve the effectiveness of the exercise. By focusing on the muscle contraction and the movement, individuals can achieve better muscle engagement, leading to more efficient workouts and greater gains.
            >What do you think?
            Things like visualization & meditation has pretty much been conclusively proven to increases athletic performance. Greater performance = greater gains, simple as that. There are lots of ways you can try to improve your kinesthetic awareness. Mindfullness exercises like meditation, body scanning, etc. But if shit like that is too esoteric for you, the simplest thing... Lift in front of a mirror. Lol. For real. Most lifters don't even realize they're working on their MMC when they're doing that.

            >Mind-muscle connection refers to the conscious and deliberate focus on a specific muscle or group of muscles during exercise, not necessarily your sensory feedback, like pump sensation.
            I would like to clarify that this...

            They say that you need to focus on the muscle worked by your exercise when you do an exercise in order to feel it, and that you MUST feel your muscles working otherwise you're doing the movement wrong.

            >you MUST feel your muscles working
            And this...

            That is absolutely correct. However, apparently when mind-muscle-connection is mentioned, people tend to just visualize the muscle in their mind, instead of actually adjusting to battle the resistance with the particular muscle, or set of. Weird to explain really, but you can definitely tell a lot of people at the gym are just moving weights around and mimicking what they see others do, instead of putting some thought into the particular exercise and adjusting their own biomechanic(within the limits of the safe)to hit the targeted muscles.

            See dumbbell rows are a great example. I have yet to see someone do this exercise correct from someone - they just bend over, grab a dumb and swing it up and down several times(as many as the routine article told them).

            Usually though, if not training mindlessly and instead actually putting in mental effort to understand what and how, it should start making sense within the first few months.

            >That is absolutely correct. However, apparently when mind-muscle-connection is mentioned, people tend to just visualize the muscle in their mind, instead of actually adjusting to battle the resistance with the particular muscle, or set of
            Is not me & I disagree. These folks are confusing sensory feedback with kinesthetic awareness. Not the same thing. Which I think is maybe what you're thinking of now.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              Sorry if I created any misunderstanding (OP here, just in case it wasn't clear). English is not my first language, so maybe I have some awkward phrasing.

              Indeed, when people talk about the mind-muscle connection, I believe there are two dimensions often mentioned: the muscle sensations during the exercise and the awareness of one's own body (also called "proprioception"). This involves understanding how your body performs the exercise, like how the back is engaged during pull-ups, and focusing on it during back exercises. In fact, people believe that the lack of proprioception leads to the lack of sensations. Therefore, you need to work on your proprioception to generate sensations.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          The main question to ask yourself is: is it NECESSARY to feel your muscles? Whether it's a good indicator of whether you're doing things right, whether you're working the muscle well, etc., yes, I admit that. But is NOT having this signal necessarily a BAD sign?

          I ask this question because after a year of lifting, some people have told me that not feeling anything was worrying (in the sense that it's understandable for someone to find it hard to feel in the first few weeks, but not after 1 year) and that I needed to solve this problem. So I took on a PT I knew from a lifting forum, who gave me a routine specifically aimed at improving this mind/muscle connection, with slow tempo exercises and lighter loads, where each phase of the movement was broken down.

          Honestly, I understood some of the conceptual stuff, but I never managed to feel my back and pecs (except once with the bench press at a very light weight where my brain seemed to have unlocked the ‘push with chest’ skill that day and my pecs burned really well, but I couldn't reproduce that feat the next session). In short, I had a few micro-results, but not enough to encourage me to continue this routine. So I gave up this routine and went back to a more traditional one based on progressive overload and hypertrophy, but I'm wondering if I did the right thing

          Everyone is different. Not every technique is going to click for everyone. This is just one aspect of fitness that may be a challenge for you. Is it holding you back? No, I wouldn't say that. Could it improve your results? Yes. That's all it means bud. I wouldn't sweat it too much, literally, stress interferes with it. Lol. All I can do is recommend trying everything. But like I said, there isn't necessarily going to be a sensory stimulus. You're not always going to FEEL it. Here is my basic bare bones test... Can you flex the muscle group without resistance? Can you pop your pecs? Wiggle your quads? Congrats, you possess rudimentary MMC. There are all sorts of odd little exercises you can do to build on this. Try body scanning & individually flexing every muscle grouple from head to toe & back. Try wiggling your pinky toe by itself. Try rubbing your tummy while patting your head. All that kind of stuff helps increase your kinesthetic awareness(the more professional name for MMC)

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            To be honest, I don't think I would have questioned the sensations and their importance if I hadn't been bombarded with it around me (especially on lifting forums). That's kind of the problem with lifting: because there's an essential social dimension—especially through social networks—you start to question yourself about things you read or hear here and there. You might end up convincing yourself that it's a serious problem because others keep talking about it, but you would never have considered it a problem without external discourse (because, obviously, for me, it's not a problem since it's my everyday lifting life; it's normal for me).

            Honestly, even at the gym, I often hear about this aspect of sensations. A guy with a decent shape (not incredibly amazing though) seemed to be coaching one of his beginner friends, and he was making him work on the triceps pushdown rope attachment. I heard him say, "If you don't feel them with this exercise, I can't advise you anymore." What I hear in that sentence—even though I probably lack the context to interpret it—is what I also heard on online lifting communities: feeling your muscles is instinctive, intuitive, and easy for the vast majority of gym-goers, and those who aren't in that case are stubborn and failing it on purpose. That's a blow to morale, and you think that, indeed, you have a problem.

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    If it's not bullshit, it doesn't work on everybody. I tried to focus on my pecs doing flies and got absolutely nothing.

    The best I can do is concentrate on specific movements like bringing elbows down during lat pulldowns.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      I've noticed that I often don't feel my pecs, but that it depends on the exercise (I feel them well on cable crossovers, and that's the only exercise where I feel them well all the time) and the type of gym (the chest press has a different incline depending on the gym franchise, and I've already tested one at a gym a bit more upmarket than the one I usually go to where I felt my chest straight away on the first repetition).

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Its just how your brain is wired

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Close your eyes and touch the tips of your pointer fingers together.
    >Does mind muscle coneqshon real?
    Nah man.

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Must be a troll

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    mmc in my case has been a result of isolating the muscles.
    I started feeling my chest much more from doing prisoner push ups. Feel the middle part now. But it's not like I started growing more or anything.
    It's pretty pointless in my opinion

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Today's word is 'prioperception'. Pattention to your muscles homosexuals. If you're new to lifting it's not easy to do. eg you try to do pullups and all the pain is in forearms because you're not used to hanging your bodyweight off your fingers. But once your forearms get stronger you'll feel your biceps doing more of the work, and once your biceps are stronger you'll realize its your lower pecs and lats that are providing most of the vertical drive. The better you can feel your muscles working, the less you use the strength in the 'wrong' muscles to compensate for the weakness in the ones you are trying to develop. Mind-muscle connection is as simple as being able to flex specific muscles when you want to. Can you twitch your pecs without flexing your whole shoulder? Can you do them individually? Do you understand how different wrist positions can shorten or lengthen your bicep? Can you shuffle a pack of cards using only your abs?
    If you are not feeling it on big compound lifts do some isolation exercises, or use lower weights and keep repping into failure so you can feel which muscles are overworked. 'Failure' shouldn't just be the awareness that you're out of gas and can't do the lift - that often leaves you feeling disorganized and pushing on risks injury. You want to push to where you can get that last rep done but your muscles are absolutely screaming and it's all you can manage to do the eccentric (release) movement slowly and safely. The release is just as important as the lift/pull. I have never dropped a weight on the floor in my life.

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