The meaning that the more exemplary members of our species is deeply compelling and fascinating, however; surely you must've observed that quality in a work of art or literature?
Objectively false, the entirety of your body plays a role in your cognition and emotional state
Are we though?
If you mess around with someone’s brain, you can make them feel sensations that don’t correspond with their physical state. We can control emotions too with messing with the brain. Calling our body a “dumb meat suit” is pretty Reddit, but our brain is a lot more powerful than you’re giving it credit for.
>The brain comtains the essence, it isn't the essence
how can you be so certain that the brain doesn't create the essence but merely contain it? what's your reasoning?
>chad image >moronic rationale
wow bro you're so smart "ironically"
2 years ago
Anonymous
>wow bro you're so smart "ironically"
2 years ago
Anonymous
https://i.imgur.com/vt9c3hP.jpg
2 years ago
Anonymous
That’s all we are anon. Our only goals are to survive and breed, don’t pay any attention to these copers trying to give life some grand meaning
No, you’re just meats and bones and on top few pounds of excrements in ur gut bro
Sovlless
https://i.imgur.com/dhoQgT8.jpg
because I can feel my essence calming and relaxing whenever I'm distancing myself from my brain and realizing that I'm not the thoughts in my head
Sovl
2 years ago
Anonymous
>asks a question >gets btfod hard from the answer >gets assblasted with no comeback
lel get fricked brainlet, you're too stupid to be here so get the frick back
2 years ago
Anonymous
the chad poster completely didn't answer the question but said something irrelevant. there is no contradiction that if a brain generated consciousness that you'd feel any different. it's not even subtle, try some reading comprehension
2 years ago
Anonymous
you have no idea what you're talking about, have you?
2 years ago
Anonymous
what you feel has frick all to do with whether or not the brain generates consciousness or if it only contains it, moron. now frick off
2 years ago
Anonymous
lol cope Black person, there are thousand of testimonies about death experiences on surgical beds with the clinically dead after their revival describing every second of what the doctors where doing and saying during those hours, and with doctors confirming everything.
Just admit that you are too stupid and you have no idea what you're talking about.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>testimonies about death experiences on surgical beds
i knew you were stupid but goddamn you're fricking moronic
2 years ago
Anonymous
>gets assblasted once more with hard scientific facts from doctors >has nothing to say
stay assblasted brainlet
2 years ago
Anonymous
>hard scientific facts from doctors
don't try to troll me friend
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I refuse to hear what doctors have to say because that will prove that I'm a moron
You are the living example that there is consciousness without a brain because how can you write here since you are obviously brain dead
You are more than your consciousness. Your conscious awareness is only the tip of the iceberg that is You. You have an infinite of being beneath what you are aware of. There are entire galaxies of activity and life within you that you have no awareness of. But you could not live without those galaxies of "unconscious" activity.
Because the of the assumptions built into the question. You are not conscious when you are sleeping but you are no less "You" when you are asleep as when you are awake.
that has frick all to do with the brain not being responsible for consciousness
2 years ago
Anonymous
The entire body is responsible for consciousness. A brain unplugged in a jar with no sensory or nervous input would not be conscious in a way that you or I can understand. Consciousness is, fundamentally, an elevation of systems that react to stimuli. You cannot be conscious of there is nothing to be conscious OF, nothing to perceive. Your brain is just as reliant on the body to produce consciousness as the body relies on the brain for it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
This, thinking that you are a brain piloting a body (or a 5th dimensional soul piloting a body) is silly. Our body influences our brains (sensory inputs, endocrine chemicals, etc.) and our brains in turn move our body. Both our bodies and our nervous system is a vital part of who we are.
Transhumanism is a ship of theseus scenario where at some point 'you' are no longer 'you'
2 years ago
Anonymous
This, thinking that you are a brain piloting a body (or a 5th dimensional soul piloting a body) is silly. Our body influences our brains (sensory inputs, endocrine chemicals, etc.) and our brains in turn move our body. Both our bodies and our nervous system is a vital part of who we are.
Transhumanism is a ship of theseus scenario where at some point 'you' are no longer 'you'
of course the brain interacts with its environment. doesn't mean the brain is not responsible for consciousness. if a brain is aware of itself then there's no reason why consciousness cannot exit in a complete sensory depravation. im sure it's pure torture but you'd still be aware of something
2 years ago
Anonymous
But you can't remove consciousness from the body to test your theory, so it's not a scientific position to hold, is it? If you can't test it?
If you have no sensory input whatsoever, no hormones, no nerve impulses, no sense of a body that you exist within, no limbs or fingers or toes, no way of knowing if you exist in any tangible sense, how do you know that you really exist at all?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>you can't remove consciousness from the body to test your theory, so it's not a scientific position to hold, is it?
you don't have to test it to realize that if the brain/you is aware of itself at some capacity then it surely won't completely shut down when you cut all possible external stumulus >no way of knowing if you exist in any tangible sense
now you're completely shifting goal posts. the point is we do now we exist. of course if you just construct a brain and give it no input it will do nothing, probably, but even still who is to say?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>of course if you just construct a brain and give it no input it will do nothing, probably,
Glad you agree that the brain and the body together create consciousness.
2 years ago
Anonymous
except i didn't agree at all?
2 years ago
Anonymous
just because a man is a product of his genes and environment both. doesn't mean he wouldn't be conscious if one of the two was completely removed
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes, it does. That's like saying you can run Windows with only a CPU. A CPU by itself is meaningless without input devices, backing storage and buses to transport the data to and from the CPU.
Consciousness is the operating system, the brain is the CPU. An OS needs a CPU just as much as it needs RAM and backing storage and peripheral inputs. "You" are the body, "You" are the CPU and the RAM. "You" are not merely your consciousness, not just the operating system. The operating system is just the part that you notice. And you don't even notice the majority of the OS. Just as a screen on your computer shows you an abstraction, a representation of what is happening inside your computer. It does t show the trillions of pulses of current and innumerable switches and gates flicking on and off a thousand times a second. Your computer screen just shows you what you need to know to be able to control the computer. This is why your notions of consciousness being possible without the body are ridiculous.
You can't have consciousness without the body for the same reason you can't bite your own teeth.
Going back to OP, the idea that "You" are just your conscious awareness puppeteering your body is like saying
2 years ago
Anonymous
your analogy doesn't work. the brain is the cpu, the memory, the gpu, everything. and yes you absolutely can run an OS without any peripheral devices. it wouldn't do much but that's a different question
2 years ago
Anonymous
>and yes you absolutely can run an OS without any peripheral devices
No peripheral devices means no memory, no flash storage, no hard disk. No monitor, no printer, no nothing.
"You" are not your consciousness. You are not your thoughts. You are not your brain encased in a bone sphere. You are the bone, you are the sinew, you are the enzymes building and breaking down your cells, you are your genes switching on and off, you are your immune cells swarming antigens, you are the blood pumping in your veins.
There is no "You" without a body, there is no "You" without a face, without muscles to move, without eyes to see, without nerves to feel, without ears to hear. Without any senses to interpret a model of reality and without any body to move, what is there to be conscious of?
2 years ago
Anonymous
peripherals are just devices for interfacing with a computer system. RAM or hard drives aren't peripherals
2 years ago
Anonymous
Dont be pedantic about terminology anon.
I used peripheral in its non technical sense, as in something seperate, adjacent.
The brain just the place that processes your vision signals, your hearing signals, your tactical signals. It doesn't create these sensations, it interprets them into an abstraction, a fantasy that we experience as conscious awareness.
You seem to think I'm arguing that consciousness occurs independently of the brain, I'm arguing nothing of the sort. I'm saying that consciousness is not what "You" are.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Dont be pedantic about terminology anon.
that was your whole argument tho. an OS can run without input or output. you have no argument with these endless flawed analogies
2 years ago
Anonymous
>an OS can run without input or output
How can you know it is running without input or output? How do you know a brain without a body would be conscious if you can't Interact with it or see evidence that it is indeed still aware of itself?
2 years ago
Anonymous
this question is still open for fully functioning humans out in the wild
you are not actually able to see if the people moving around you are self-aware, so it's a moot question. the perceiver is the one who "proves" its own existence
2 years ago
Anonymous
well that was my point from the beginning. my intuition is it can run just fine even in complete sensory deprivation, it won't be pleasant. but there's no reason why it wouldn't. especially if at least it has previously realized its own existence. if you are aware of yourself you don't need to be aware of anything else, in theory. that's my intuition
2 years ago
Anonymous
>especially if at least it has previously realized its own existence
In other words, if it has been part of a body to give it a basis for creating awareness of itself. It cannot generate an awareness of itself as any kind of thing without those inputs and outputs, at least temporarily.
Maybe, with scifi tech, you could sever a brain from a body and trap it in a hellish nonexistence of awareness, but if you grew one from scratch that never sensed anything or never sent an impulse?
Consciousness require the body to be created.
A person born completely blind from birth has no reference point to understand light or colour or other ethereal qualities of visual awareness. It's different than someone born sighted who becomes blind. A consciousness can certainly be cut off from the controls and inputs that the brain used to create it, but I don't believe the brain can create consciousness without using those components.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Consciousness require the body to be created.
look up chinese brain
2 years ago
Anonymous
i don't think we disagree. and the discussion has shifted a lot. the point is the brain generates consciousness whether it needs inputs to do this didn't particularly concern me
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes. But "You" are not your consciousness. Consciousness is an illusion, "You" are the entirety of your body.
Or to put it another way, if the television itself is broken, the picture is gonna get distorted even if the signal is working fine. Think of the brain as a sort of "reality interface" that allows consciousness to experience and interact with the material world. If it's damaged, that interaction becomes distorted.
ok that's fine but i don't see the reasoning you have for this notion. how can you be sure that consciousness comes from some place else and that it didn't just evolve with the brain? i don't see a good reason to hold this belief other than being a creationist which would be moronic
Creationism is moronic, I say that as a Christian. Creationism is a newer idea than you think, and is mostly promoted by people who have a very childish and myopic understanding of the Bible (assuming they actually read it at all).
>the reasoning you have for this notion
Spiritual matters are outside the domain of natural science. It is a very personal journey that can't be broken down into empirical data. That being said, I do think that it is very reasonable to believe that Christ rose from the dead, and that He was who He said He was.
Here's a neat playlist that makes a pretty good case for the resurrection if you're interested: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TUYymBPce08oyuhnHLLkR_B
As an aside, has it ever occurred to you just how strange and surreal this existence is, simply on the face of it? Personally, I find it difficult to believe that there's nothing beyond what can be objectively verified in the physical world.
>Creationism is a newer idea than you think
i thought that's in the bible, how is it new? you can't be a christian and not creationist >Spiritual matters are outside the domain of natural science ....
i have no reason to continue with this discussion because your beliefs for me are inherently irrational and you've started arguing with your fee fees, which would be fine enough if you weren't a christian or any other organized religion follower. human perception of reality is limited and you can't exactly rely on it to be objective, much less for a follower of organized religion which has been deboonked so much it's fricking absurd that a otherwise "rational" person can follow it. to me this is all the proof i need that a discussion based on feelings is flawed in these matters, especially when my corresponded is christian
2 years ago
Anonymous
>you can't be a christian and not creationist
The fact that you believe this show how much of a layman you are in these matters. I can't force you to look into these things for yourself, but I hope you have a more open mind one day.
2 years ago
Anonymous
there is no way to cope your way out of this when the bible literally states the earth is however many thousands of years old. i know there's a few cope branches of christianity but this is not the flex you think it is
2 years ago
Anonymous
>the bible literally states the earth is however many thousands of years old
No it doesn't. You don't read the Bible, and you certainly have no education as to the intent behind any of the original hebrew that much of it was written in.
2 years ago
Anonymous
the only reason you don't believe in creationism is because science has deboonked it. you'd have believe it just the same if it was unverifiable just as you believe all the other nonesense in the bible
2 years ago
Anonymous
Lol, it was Christians who originally debunked the "6000 year old earth" creationism drivel. You people are so ignorant. Unsurprising, given that so much of the modern world is built on deception and lies.
2 years ago
Anonymous
i just think in general christianity as a worldview is wildly inconsistent with reality
2 years ago
Anonymous
It does. It gives Abrahams age and says Jesus was the son of David who was the son of Abraham. We know when Jesus died and can calculate their back to creation. Absolute bollocks.
2 years ago
Anonymous
My God you are severely undereducated on this topic. Seriously, go do some research before you start using arguments you don't understand. Genesis is not what you think it is. Here's a hint, it was much more about assigning functions than it was about a literal material creation. Do some reading on what the hebrew word for "create" really means.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>you can’t take it literally!!!
Ok then it’s all fricking bullshit lol. Stupid moron.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>conveniently all the parts that contradict scientific discoveries are not to be taken literally even tho people were quite happy to take them literally before they were deboonked
2 years ago
Anonymous
Genesis is describing something that literally happened, just not in the way braindead american evangelicals think it does. It's actually very interesting if you'd take the time to read and listen to what actual Christian scholars and philosophers have to say on the matter.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Bro do some shrooms or take DMT literally once and you will realize that the "natural science" you regard so highly and base your worldview on is largely irrelevant. This world is not what you think it is and if you've never had a serious psychedelic experience you have no idea what's going on. Absolutely none.
2 years ago
Anonymous
all kinds of moronic and irrational shit happens in my dreams too. just because the brain is firing up in a disorderly way doesn't mean you're transcending reality. i'd love to try some mushrooms or dmt for the experience but if you want to have a discussion you will have to use reason and not emotion
2 years ago
Anonymous
>i'd love to try some mushrooms or dmt
I hope you do so you can realize how silly you sound right now.
>but if you want to have a discussion you will have to use reason and not emotion
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You are baby. The "reason" of Babylon is worthless.
Think of the brain and body as a tool for you to perceive and act upon reality. Even upon getting brain damage, you are still yourself, it's just that your ability to interact is impaired.
Why do you snatch your hand away from a burning heat? It happens faster than it takes for nerve impulses to travel from the hand to the brain and back again.
>It happens faster than it takes for nerve impulses to travel from the hand to the brain and back again
no, it doesn't
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes, it does anon.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zy78wxs/revision/3
Reflexes do not involve the brain.
2 years ago
Anonymous
interesting. so what's your interpretation to this phenomenon? either way whether it's from the brain or not it's certainly something that happens as a "reflex" by definition you don't consciously think it through.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>so what's your interpretation to this phenomenon?
The body wants to survive just as much as the brain.
An anon up here
the nerves in my foot tell my brain i need to feel pain because the brain evolved with the instinct for self-preservation
talks about the brain sensing pain in the foot because the brain has evolved an instinct for self preservation. What about the foot? The foot wants to survive just as much as the brain. You don't snatch your hand away from a flame because your brain doesn't want to be burned, you do it because your body wants to survive.
The brain is an outgrowth of the nervous system, an awareness module if you like. A very sophisticated awareness module compared to most other animals, but it's just a bonus feature. It's greatest trick as been convincing us that we are it.
I am not my brain. I am my whole body, including my brain. I am my skin, my bones, my gut and my eyes. I am all of me
2 years ago
Anonymous
>The brain is an outgrowth of the nervous system, an awareness module if you like
this is an interesting way to look at it. >I am not my brain. I am my whole body, including my brain. I am my skin, my bones, my gut and my eyes. I am all of me
i agree, although i still believe the brain generates consciousness
2 years ago
Anonymous
>although i still believe the brain generates consciousness
Sure, I'm not disputing that at all. But it cannot create consciousness without the body, notwithstanding the energy + oxygen provided by the body.
>Consciousness require the body to be created.
look up chinese brain
I don't see how that's relevant to this discussion. But I actually believe that a rudimentary mind of sorts is created by the original thought experiment (not the Chinese room though).
One only needs to think of the jokes on IST about the hive mind, the collective energy that can be directed by masses of individuals yet contained within no single Individual, to see that human networks have a sort of mind to them.
ive seen a study showing a correlation of IQ degradation with amount of fighting incidents. i think it was among kids, which is alarming as kids barely have any strength at all. but you shouldn't need a study it's common sense
the reason for my question is: it would seem you can either be aware of your experience, or unaware (which would mean no consciousness). it doesn't really matter if your brain is split in half and you can't tell the difference between a hat and your wife
You should think like that while running.
You can just override the urge to slow down,
that's just a vestigial reaction from ancient times when energy was scarce.
Focus on maintaining heart rate or keeping pain above the threshold.
You're not even in control.
The signals to move your arm are sent before you even conciously think about moving your arm.
You're not the pilot, you're the passenger.
>each one of us is just a brain controlling a lump of meat and bones
No. You are not your brain, you are your whole body. You are your skin, your eyes, your gut, your heart, your lungs and your brain.
Didn’t read thread but this is what your brain actually looks like and how it controls the meat sack. You aren’t just sitting up in the head. It’s reaching everywhere.
I think it's really funny how leftists preach how everyone is beautiful until someone they dislike looks weird, at which point they go crazy making memes about it >Trump's hands >Elon's proportions
You're implying that you are somehow a separate entity from your own body. That's not exactly the right way to look at it. Just because you cannot consciously command your blood to speed up or slow down does not mean it's separate from you. Everything that goes on in your body contributes to how your brain (and your conscious mind) can function. It's why unhealthy people are dumb and why healthy people are often much smarter and more capable.
You owe it to your god, your mother, and yourself to take care of your body, given to you by any of the above, before it's over. That's all the philosophy I need.
No matter what, you're loved.
>have any sort of existential philosophical thread >christcucks come in and declare that their 3000 year old israeli fairy tales have the answer to every question about the meaning of life and the universe
Christ is mankind's most prominent religious figure and the cross is the most successful meme of all time. It's a given that any existential discussion will include Jesus of Nazareth at some point.
Only if you live in the west, or a country that was colonized by Europe.
Your average Chinese or Japanese person probably doesn't know jackshit about Jesus
Man if celebrities and businesspeople weren’t both rich and mostly psychopathic they’d probably all kill themselves. If every time I went outside the next day there were straight up works of art picking apart my appearance I would hang myself eventually.
Maybe I’m a pussy idk.
Elon is far too wealthy to give a frick about plebians making fun of his appearance. If he wanted to he could kidnap any one of us and subject us to unending agony in the most exquisite torture chamber ever conceived. And no one would ever know.
Shit thread
she bad tho. wanna smash ngl
Go Team Venture!
Based
Will we ever get the final season bros?
you may want to sit down before you read any futher, anon...
We're getting an HBO financed movie to finish it off for good. I hope they reveal who Scare Bear is.
Im euphoric right now from that realization
>t.
SOVLless statement. for sure a nihilistic depressed firstie behind it.
That’s all we are anon. Our only goals are to survive and breed, don’t pay any attention to these copers trying to give life some grand meaning
The meaning that the more exemplary members of our species is deeply compelling and fascinating, however; surely you must've observed that quality in a work of art or literature?
*the meaning that the more exemplary members of our species have invented for themselves
It’s crazy to think it’s crazy since it’s actually one of the most natural things in existence. Your brains ego is crazy.
Objectively false, the entirety of your body plays a role in your cognition and emotional state
yes we're a far more complex system than a sentient brain controlling a dumb meat sack
Are we though?
If you mess around with someone’s brain, you can make them feel sensations that don’t correspond with their physical state. We can control emotions too with messing with the brain. Calling our body a “dumb meat suit” is pretty Reddit, but our brain is a lot more powerful than you’re giving it credit for.
See gut-brain connection
Also you must be 18 or older to post here
Frick off reddit
I am so much more than that
No, you’re just meats and bones and on top few pounds of excrements in ur gut bro
Stop talking about yourself.
>They genuinely think consciousness is a byproduct of their braincells
id love to hear your theory.
why does consciousness get impaired if you suffer physical brain damage?
coincidence
Why does water leak when you crack your glass? The brain comtains the essence, it isn't the essence.
>The brain comtains the essence, it isn't the essence
how can you be so certain that the brain doesn't create the essence but merely contain it? what's your reasoning?
because I can feel my essence calming and relaxing whenever I'm distancing myself from my brain and realizing that I'm not the thoughts in my head
>chad image
>moronic rationale
wow bro you're so smart "ironically"
>wow bro you're so smart "ironically"
Sovlless
Sovl
>asks a question
>gets btfod hard from the answer
>gets assblasted with no comeback
lel get fricked brainlet, you're too stupid to be here so get the frick back
the chad poster completely didn't answer the question but said something irrelevant. there is no contradiction that if a brain generated consciousness that you'd feel any different. it's not even subtle, try some reading comprehension
you have no idea what you're talking about, have you?
what you feel has frick all to do with whether or not the brain generates consciousness or if it only contains it, moron. now frick off
lol cope Black person, there are thousand of testimonies about death experiences on surgical beds with the clinically dead after their revival describing every second of what the doctors where doing and saying during those hours, and with doctors confirming everything.
Just admit that you are too stupid and you have no idea what you're talking about.
>testimonies about death experiences on surgical beds
i knew you were stupid but goddamn you're fricking moronic
>gets assblasted once more with hard scientific facts from doctors
>has nothing to say
stay assblasted brainlet
>hard scientific facts from doctors
don't try to troll me friend
>I refuse to hear what doctors have to say because that will prove that I'm a moron
You are the living example that there is consciousness without a brain because how can you write here since you are obviously brain dead
physicalists will never try to answer the hard problem of consciousness because they're too afraid
You are more than your consciousness. Your conscious awareness is only the tip of the iceberg that is You. You have an infinite of being beneath what you are aware of. There are entire galaxies of activity and life within you that you have no awareness of. But you could not live without those galaxies of "unconscious" activity.
ok, so why can't you answer the question?
Because the of the assumptions built into the question. You are not conscious when you are sleeping but you are no less "You" when you are asleep as when you are awake.
that has frick all to do with the brain not being responsible for consciousness
The entire body is responsible for consciousness. A brain unplugged in a jar with no sensory or nervous input would not be conscious in a way that you or I can understand. Consciousness is, fundamentally, an elevation of systems that react to stimuli. You cannot be conscious of there is nothing to be conscious OF, nothing to perceive. Your brain is just as reliant on the body to produce consciousness as the body relies on the brain for it.
This, thinking that you are a brain piloting a body (or a 5th dimensional soul piloting a body) is silly. Our body influences our brains (sensory inputs, endocrine chemicals, etc.) and our brains in turn move our body. Both our bodies and our nervous system is a vital part of who we are.
Transhumanism is a ship of theseus scenario where at some point 'you' are no longer 'you'
of course the brain interacts with its environment. doesn't mean the brain is not responsible for consciousness. if a brain is aware of itself then there's no reason why consciousness cannot exit in a complete sensory depravation. im sure it's pure torture but you'd still be aware of something
But you can't remove consciousness from the body to test your theory, so it's not a scientific position to hold, is it? If you can't test it?
If you have no sensory input whatsoever, no hormones, no nerve impulses, no sense of a body that you exist within, no limbs or fingers or toes, no way of knowing if you exist in any tangible sense, how do you know that you really exist at all?
>you can't remove consciousness from the body to test your theory, so it's not a scientific position to hold, is it?
you don't have to test it to realize that if the brain/you is aware of itself at some capacity then it surely won't completely shut down when you cut all possible external stumulus
>no way of knowing if you exist in any tangible sense
now you're completely shifting goal posts. the point is we do now we exist. of course if you just construct a brain and give it no input it will do nothing, probably, but even still who is to say?
>of course if you just construct a brain and give it no input it will do nothing, probably,
Glad you agree that the brain and the body together create consciousness.
except i didn't agree at all?
just because a man is a product of his genes and environment both. doesn't mean he wouldn't be conscious if one of the two was completely removed
Yes, it does. That's like saying you can run Windows with only a CPU. A CPU by itself is meaningless without input devices, backing storage and buses to transport the data to and from the CPU.
Consciousness is the operating system, the brain is the CPU. An OS needs a CPU just as much as it needs RAM and backing storage and peripheral inputs. "You" are the body, "You" are the CPU and the RAM. "You" are not merely your consciousness, not just the operating system. The operating system is just the part that you notice. And you don't even notice the majority of the OS. Just as a screen on your computer shows you an abstraction, a representation of what is happening inside your computer. It does t show the trillions of pulses of current and innumerable switches and gates flicking on and off a thousand times a second. Your computer screen just shows you what you need to know to be able to control the computer. This is why your notions of consciousness being possible without the body are ridiculous.
You can't have consciousness without the body for the same reason you can't bite your own teeth.
Going back to OP, the idea that "You" are just your conscious awareness puppeteering your body is like saying
your analogy doesn't work. the brain is the cpu, the memory, the gpu, everything. and yes you absolutely can run an OS without any peripheral devices. it wouldn't do much but that's a different question
>and yes you absolutely can run an OS without any peripheral devices
No peripheral devices means no memory, no flash storage, no hard disk. No monitor, no printer, no nothing.
"You" are not your consciousness. You are not your thoughts. You are not your brain encased in a bone sphere. You are the bone, you are the sinew, you are the enzymes building and breaking down your cells, you are your genes switching on and off, you are your immune cells swarming antigens, you are the blood pumping in your veins.
There is no "You" without a body, there is no "You" without a face, without muscles to move, without eyes to see, without nerves to feel, without ears to hear. Without any senses to interpret a model of reality and without any body to move, what is there to be conscious of?
peripherals are just devices for interfacing with a computer system. RAM or hard drives aren't peripherals
Dont be pedantic about terminology anon.
I used peripheral in its non technical sense, as in something seperate, adjacent.
The brain just the place that processes your vision signals, your hearing signals, your tactical signals. It doesn't create these sensations, it interprets them into an abstraction, a fantasy that we experience as conscious awareness.
You seem to think I'm arguing that consciousness occurs independently of the brain, I'm arguing nothing of the sort. I'm saying that consciousness is not what "You" are.
>Dont be pedantic about terminology anon.
that was your whole argument tho. an OS can run without input or output. you have no argument with these endless flawed analogies
>an OS can run without input or output
How can you know it is running without input or output? How do you know a brain without a body would be conscious if you can't Interact with it or see evidence that it is indeed still aware of itself?
this question is still open for fully functioning humans out in the wild
you are not actually able to see if the people moving around you are self-aware, so it's a moot question. the perceiver is the one who "proves" its own existence
well that was my point from the beginning. my intuition is it can run just fine even in complete sensory deprivation, it won't be pleasant. but there's no reason why it wouldn't. especially if at least it has previously realized its own existence. if you are aware of yourself you don't need to be aware of anything else, in theory. that's my intuition
>especially if at least it has previously realized its own existence
In other words, if it has been part of a body to give it a basis for creating awareness of itself. It cannot generate an awareness of itself as any kind of thing without those inputs and outputs, at least temporarily.
Maybe, with scifi tech, you could sever a brain from a body and trap it in a hellish nonexistence of awareness, but if you grew one from scratch that never sensed anything or never sent an impulse?
Consciousness require the body to be created.
A person born completely blind from birth has no reference point to understand light or colour or other ethereal qualities of visual awareness. It's different than someone born sighted who becomes blind. A consciousness can certainly be cut off from the controls and inputs that the brain used to create it, but I don't believe the brain can create consciousness without using those components.
>Consciousness require the body to be created.
look up chinese brain
i don't think we disagree. and the discussion has shifted a lot. the point is the brain generates consciousness whether it needs inputs to do this didn't particularly concern me
Yes. But "You" are not your consciousness. Consciousness is an illusion, "You" are the entirety of your body.
btw the brain never stops working even when you sleep, moron
Brain=hardware
consciousness/soul=software
Or to put it another way, if the television itself is broken, the picture is gonna get distorted even if the signal is working fine. Think of the brain as a sort of "reality interface" that allows consciousness to experience and interact with the material world. If it's damaged, that interaction becomes distorted.
God loves you btw.
ok that's fine but i don't see the reasoning you have for this notion. how can you be sure that consciousness comes from some place else and that it didn't just evolve with the brain? i don't see a good reason to hold this belief other than being a creationist which would be moronic
Creationism is moronic, I say that as a Christian. Creationism is a newer idea than you think, and is mostly promoted by people who have a very childish and myopic understanding of the Bible (assuming they actually read it at all).
>the reasoning you have for this notion
Spiritual matters are outside the domain of natural science. It is a very personal journey that can't be broken down into empirical data. That being said, I do think that it is very reasonable to believe that Christ rose from the dead, and that He was who He said He was.
Here's a neat playlist that makes a pretty good case for the resurrection if you're interested: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TUYymBPce08oyuhnHLLkR_B
As an aside, has it ever occurred to you just how strange and surreal this existence is, simply on the face of it? Personally, I find it difficult to believe that there's nothing beyond what can be objectively verified in the physical world.
>Creationism is a newer idea than you think
i thought that's in the bible, how is it new? you can't be a christian and not creationist
>Spiritual matters are outside the domain of natural science ....
i have no reason to continue with this discussion because your beliefs for me are inherently irrational and you've started arguing with your fee fees, which would be fine enough if you weren't a christian or any other organized religion follower. human perception of reality is limited and you can't exactly rely on it to be objective, much less for a follower of organized religion which has been deboonked so much it's fricking absurd that a otherwise "rational" person can follow it. to me this is all the proof i need that a discussion based on feelings is flawed in these matters, especially when my corresponded is christian
>you can't be a christian and not creationist
The fact that you believe this show how much of a layman you are in these matters. I can't force you to look into these things for yourself, but I hope you have a more open mind one day.
there is no way to cope your way out of this when the bible literally states the earth is however many thousands of years old. i know there's a few cope branches of christianity but this is not the flex you think it is
>the bible literally states the earth is however many thousands of years old
No it doesn't. You don't read the Bible, and you certainly have no education as to the intent behind any of the original hebrew that much of it was written in.
the only reason you don't believe in creationism is because science has deboonked it. you'd have believe it just the same if it was unverifiable just as you believe all the other nonesense in the bible
Lol, it was Christians who originally debunked the "6000 year old earth" creationism drivel. You people are so ignorant. Unsurprising, given that so much of the modern world is built on deception and lies.
i just think in general christianity as a worldview is wildly inconsistent with reality
It does. It gives Abrahams age and says Jesus was the son of David who was the son of Abraham. We know when Jesus died and can calculate their back to creation. Absolute bollocks.
My God you are severely undereducated on this topic. Seriously, go do some research before you start using arguments you don't understand. Genesis is not what you think it is. Here's a hint, it was much more about assigning functions than it was about a literal material creation. Do some reading on what the hebrew word for "create" really means.
>you can’t take it literally!!!
Ok then it’s all fricking bullshit lol. Stupid moron.
>conveniently all the parts that contradict scientific discoveries are not to be taken literally even tho people were quite happy to take them literally before they were deboonked
Genesis is describing something that literally happened, just not in the way braindead american evangelicals think it does. It's actually very interesting if you'd take the time to read and listen to what actual Christian scholars and philosophers have to say on the matter.
Bro do some shrooms or take DMT literally once and you will realize that the "natural science" you regard so highly and base your worldview on is largely irrelevant. This world is not what you think it is and if you've never had a serious psychedelic experience you have no idea what's going on. Absolutely none.
all kinds of moronic and irrational shit happens in my dreams too. just because the brain is firing up in a disorderly way doesn't mean you're transcending reality. i'd love to try some mushrooms or dmt for the experience but if you want to have a discussion you will have to use reason and not emotion
>i'd love to try some mushrooms or dmt
I hope you do so you can realize how silly you sound right now.
>but if you want to have a discussion you will have to use reason and not emotion
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You are baby. The "reason" of Babylon is worthless.
>t. average christcuck intellect
Think of the brain and body as a tool for you to perceive and act upon reality. Even upon getting brain damage, you are still yourself, it's just that your ability to interact is impaired.
so (you) reside somewhere else but only interface with the brain. then where do you come from if not the brain?
This isn't true. Brain damage can cause personality changes. We are all familiar with the case of Phineas Gage.
Why do you limp if your foot is hurt?
the nerves in my foot tell my brain i need to feel pain because the brain evolved with the instinct for self-preservation
Why do you snatch your hand away from a burning heat? It happens faster than it takes for nerve impulses to travel from the hand to the brain and back again.
>It happens faster than it takes for nerve impulses to travel from the hand to the brain and back again
no, it doesn't
Yes, it does anon.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zy78wxs/revision/3
Reflexes do not involve the brain.
interesting. so what's your interpretation to this phenomenon? either way whether it's from the brain or not it's certainly something that happens as a "reflex" by definition you don't consciously think it through.
>so what's your interpretation to this phenomenon?
The body wants to survive just as much as the brain.
An anon up here
talks about the brain sensing pain in the foot because the brain has evolved an instinct for self preservation. What about the foot? The foot wants to survive just as much as the brain. You don't snatch your hand away from a flame because your brain doesn't want to be burned, you do it because your body wants to survive.
The brain is an outgrowth of the nervous system, an awareness module if you like. A very sophisticated awareness module compared to most other animals, but it's just a bonus feature. It's greatest trick as been convincing us that we are it.
I am not my brain. I am my whole body, including my brain. I am my skin, my bones, my gut and my eyes. I am all of me
>The brain is an outgrowth of the nervous system, an awareness module if you like
this is an interesting way to look at it.
>I am not my brain. I am my whole body, including my brain. I am my skin, my bones, my gut and my eyes. I am all of me
i agree, although i still believe the brain generates consciousness
>although i still believe the brain generates consciousness
Sure, I'm not disputing that at all. But it cannot create consciousness without the body, notwithstanding the energy + oxygen provided by the body.
I don't see how that's relevant to this discussion. But I actually believe that a rudimentary mind of sorts is created by the original thought experiment (not the Chinese room though).
One only needs to think of the jokes on IST about the hive mind, the collective energy that can be directed by masses of individuals yet contained within no single Individual, to see that human networks have a sort of mind to them.
does it?
ive seen a study showing a correlation of IQ degradation with amount of fighting incidents. i think it was among kids, which is alarming as kids barely have any strength at all. but you shouldn't need a study it's common sense
the reason for my question is: it would seem you can either be aware of your experience, or unaware (which would mean no consciousness). it doesn't really matter if your brain is split in half and you can't tell the difference between a hat and your wife
You should think like that while running.
You can just override the urge to slow down,
that's just a vestigial reaction from ancient times when energy was scarce.
Focus on maintaining heart rate or keeping pain above the threshold.
Point to the part of your brain that "you". Do it with your index finger.
so this is where Elon got the cybertruck concept art design idea from? Art does imitate life, I suppose.
You're not even in control.
The signals to move your arm are sent before you even conciously think about moving your arm.
You're not the pilot, you're the passenger.
Sir I'm not a nihilist.
>You just realize now that you are you and it's in control of this body
>each one of us is just a brain controlling a lump of meat and bones
No. You are not your brain, you are your whole body. You are your skin, your eyes, your gut, your heart, your lungs and your brain.
So what are people missing body parties?
What are people with sections of their braind missing who live completely normal lives?
How i can prevent that torso?
>Dont be fat
is not 100% fat but the way the rib cages turn when you are older
Didn’t read thread but this is what your brain actually looks like and how it controls the meat sack. You aren’t just sitting up in the head. It’s reaching everywhere.
The brain is better thought of as an extension of the bodily nervous systems, and not the other way around.
That’s dumb. It’s called the control center for a reason.
I think it's really funny how leftists preach how everyone is beautiful until someone they dislike looks weird, at which point they go crazy making memes about it
>Trump's hands
>Elon's proportions
Frick you! NOS is the is the God Emperor of All Drinks!
Actually I'm a brain controlling a massive wiener and the rest is just sort of dangling on as well.
Post massive brain
make whatever b***h homosexual memes you want israelite, your days are numbered. ill eat you
Not me I'm an artificial intelligence residing in an Israeli laboratory.
it's crazy to think that our brains are actually in control of anything
You're implying that you are somehow a separate entity from your own body. That's not exactly the right way to look at it. Just because you cannot consciously command your blood to speed up or slow down does not mean it's separate from you. Everything that goes on in your body contributes to how your brain (and your conscious mind) can function. It's why unhealthy people are dumb and why healthy people are often much smarter and more capable.
I AM KRANG
You owe it to your god, your mother, and yourself to take care of your body, given to you by any of the above, before it's over. That's all the philosophy I need.
No matter what, you're loved.
Pseud Central.
Brainlet
>I came to IST to flex my nonexistent brain because I'm a dyel
go back where you belong pseud
Post body
Brain and spine tyvm
>have any sort of existential philosophical thread
>christcucks come in and declare that their 3000 year old israeli fairy tales have the answer to every question about the meaning of life and the universe
Christ is mankind's most prominent religious figure and the cross is the most successful meme of all time. It's a given that any existential discussion will include Jesus of Nazareth at some point.
Only if you live in the west, or a country that was colonized by Europe.
Your average Chinese or Japanese person probably doesn't know jackshit about Jesus
>imagine being nonwhite
Crazy? No. It is cool. We are piloting sophisticated mecha with the amazing ability to self repair.
Whoever is debating the "You" stuff, post brain
Man if celebrities and businesspeople weren’t both rich and mostly psychopathic they’d probably all kill themselves. If every time I went outside the next day there were straight up works of art picking apart my appearance I would hang myself eventually.
Maybe I’m a pussy idk.
Elon is far too wealthy to give a frick about plebians making fun of his appearance. If he wanted to he could kidnap any one of us and subject us to unending agony in the most exquisite torture chamber ever conceived. And no one would ever know.
this plus he got to frick grimes. you think a man like this gives a shit? he know he's exceptional