It's so fricking unbelievably over.

It's so fricking unbelievably over.

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  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    You eat flaxseed?

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I guess this is another thread where some loser blames his shitty life, gyno breasts and inability to socialize on some random food ingredient

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      second post best post

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      KEK spbp. Wish this was a banner at the top of this board

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Anon that's plant estrogen, it's suitable only for plantsition of plants. Are you a plant?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Are fish plants?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >thank god the highlights are there, otherwise I wouldn't have known what to read

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Are you a fricking fish?
        inb4 that one fricking case study from 20 years ago.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >soi estrogens can't affect you because you're not a plant!
          >OK it effects other animals like fish BUT NOT HUMANS!!!
          >ARRRRRGGGHHHH OK IT AFFECTS THIS ONE HUMAN BUT THATS IT! IT ONLY AFFECTED HIM!
          >NO NO NO STOP POSTING CASE STUDIES IT DOESNT COUNT!!!
          >AAAAAAA POPULATION STUDIES DONT COUNT EITHER! WHAT DO YOU MEAN ITS GETTING REGULATED AS AN ENDOCRINE DISRUPTOR!?!?!

          https://i.imgur.com/KLtUCmc.jpg

          no clue. I just picked a random image from google because that's kind of my point. I don't see flax seeds as being important enough to go through the process of trying to find out which study said what and who's the reliable source. they're not some common food ingredient but rather something you have to go out of your way to add to your diet.

          Fair enough. It looks like this study is examing excretion of two additional phytoestrogens, not necessarily absorption. Also the chart says the same, that isoflavone content is low in flax relative to other foods like soi.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            yeah, I definitely don't touch soi
            the evidence is pretty overwhelming there

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            what baffles me is that people will pretend onions is fine. Like... why?

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              It comes from mainly 2 or 3 places. First you have to understand soi is a really massive agribusiness and food business in the west and they have a very large lobby to influence its sale, production, and regulation and they go hard into that. Almost every study in existence that says anything positive about soi comes from the soi nutrition institute who partners with some of these big businesses to push more soi on the world. The big move right now is that they're trying to lobby governments to re-classify ultra processed soi foods into something else so they can market it as health foods better and also receive preferential treatment. They've got a scientist on the payroll named Mark Messina who heads this research. You see that name in a study, put an asterisk next to it as *financially incentivized to make soi look good to the tune of billions globally

              2nd is the vegans which the soi lobby also enjoys. Their diet is moronic and is highly dependent on a giant soi business to meet protein needs. This is essentially a cult that needs soi to continue to exist. They don't like people questioning this given how much of their diet is dependent on soi for even a modicum of health. Try putting together a vegan diet with adequate protein for health and fitness without processed soi foods. You'll see why they need it so bad.

              Last is the normies. Just regular people who fell for the vegan propaganda documentaries or mainstream chatter. They don't pay attention to government action or non-soi sponsored research. They accept what was presented to them first. That's all.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                I've definitely noticed another sizable group (probably overrepresented online) who at this point are shilling onions out of pure spite.
                Ever since places like IST or Joe Rogan or whoever started talking about onions, there have been people who eat or support it just to counteract that as some identity thing. Not even because they're definitely convinced it's healthy, but to show they aren't concerned with questions like "does it raise estrogen levels?". Because to worry would be sexist and transphobic chud behavior.

                I mean, not so different from many other types of woke consumerism, but still.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              what is wrong with onions?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            moron. Keep being afraid of beans.
            >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19524224/
            >The results of this meta-analysis suggest that neither onions foods nor isoflavone supplements alter measures of bioavailable T concentrations in men.

            >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11352776/
            >We conclude that the phytoestrogen dose consumed had no effect on semen quality.

            >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19819436/
            >Consumption of onions protein of low or high isoflavone content does not adversely affect semen quality in a sample of healthy adult men.

            >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20378106/
            >The intervention data indicate that isoflavones do not exert feminizing effects on men at intake levels equal to and even considerably higher than are typical for Asian males.

            >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30042516/
            >These data suggest that, while isoflavones were detected in SPC, chronic WPC or SPC supplementation did not appreciably affect biomarkers related to muscle androgenic signaling or SQ estrogenic signaling. The noted fiber type-specific responses to WPC and SPC supplementation warrant future research.

            >https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/132/3/570S/4687378
            >The reported studies suggest that onions consumption exerts small effects on hormones in both men and premenopausal women. Although these effects are generally in a beneficial direction
            >beneficial direction

            >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35197681/
            > Results obtained in this study provide additional evidence about the favourable effect of a plant-based diet on sperm parameters.

            >https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916522105332?via%3Dihub
            >Primary food sources of phytoestrogens, including tofu, onions milk, whole grains, tea, and flaxseed, were also inversely associated with total mortality.

            >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19480732/
            >Isoflavone supplementation in healthy males may enhance cognitive processes which appear dependent on oestrogen activation.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              why are you so hell-bent on trying to get me to eat a bean that's only grown halfway around the world?
              I swear like 90% of the pro-onions posting is some weird reddit kneejerk because it's totally like racist trump supporters who question whether this gay bean is healthy

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              >mark Messina
              Yeah I've read all his studies. Worthless. *financially incentivized to the tune of billions of dollars to make soi look good.
              Pic related.

              Excess soi can cause gynecomastia
              >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18558591/

              Side effects of isoflavone consumption
              >https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270274/

              Prebuscent boy developed gyno from eating soi. Resolved when he stopped.
              >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33818045/

              Hypogonadism and ED from soi consumption. Resolved when he stopped.
              >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21353476/

              Hypogonadism caused by excessive soi consumption. Resolved when he stopped.
              >https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9593161/

              Whey protein improved body composition and lean mass, soi did not.
              >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33971994/

              Low dose isoflavone consumption from soi lengthens women's menstrual cycles
              >https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6835759/

              Onions used successfully as Hormone Replacement Therapy alternative on post menopausal women
              >https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6210155/

              You want more? I've got more. And none are sponsored by Raid Shadow Soi Legends unlike you.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Continuing on, from the available studies feminization effects on men is not only possible, but on a vegan diet or other high soi diet it is likely. These cases show that between 300 to 400mg per day is enough to develop severe issues like GROWING FRICKING BREASTS, and LOSING THE FUNCTION OF YOUR PENIS. Who even knows what else is happening in the body before those levels are hit? In women, as little as 50mg of isoflavones can negatively impact menstrual cycles by lengthening them.

                Now what does 300mg of isoflavones look like? To provide perspective for you all, Pic related is the isoflavone content of common soi foods. Some traditional foods are safe like soi sauce. But using soi flour or soi proteins, even a single serving per day can have negative consequences and should be avoided.

                Just think, a liter of soi milk could potentially have you, an adult man, growing breasts. Now think about the consequences it has on children exposed to this? Soi should be regulated as an endocrine disruptor, and I AM GLAD more governments are recognizing this. Frick big soi.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Continuing on. Why soi in particular? Why does soi do this when other isoflavone containing foods do not. That is because soi, for some reason, currently dominates the leader board for isoflavone content. The different between soi and other legumes say peas or peanuts is ASTRONOMICAL. The difference is so vast its like not even in the same league. I've done the math before, but I don't recall the exact numbers. However it was around 40, 1lb jars of peanut butter to equal 100g, or a single spoonful of soi beans in terms of isoflafone exposure.

                Estrogens in 40 jars of peanut butter
                Equals
                Estrogen 1 spoonful of soi beans

                That's why you should avoid soi, where other isoflavone-containing foods are fine. The exposure level just is not even on the same planet.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Case study
                Lmao
                >possible side effects
                lmao, you ignore my actual human studies, but cling to "possible side effects"
                >Case study
                Lmao
                >Case study
                Lmao
                >Case fricking study
                holy frick dude
                ://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33971994/
                This meta-analysis is pretty trash. Half of the studies it's sourcing say the opposite or don't agree with it. Looking at the quality of the studies(pic related) I don't understand why you would consider this good evidence. An example it uses: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15588291/
                Which shows soi was SUPERIOR in post workout recovery, as well as similar gains.

                >bunch of shit about women
                don't care. Not a women. Not a fish. not a monkey
                >Yeah I've read all his studies. Worthless. *financially incentivized to the tune of billions of dollars to make soi look good.
                So your only argument is "FUNDING!!1!1"? while you post case studies and mechanistic speculation. Despite millions of people consuming soi all over the world with no ill effects. Why didn't any of the people in the studies I posted get gyno? Why are asians overpopulating? How can you look at the "4" people who had issues with onions and think thats the norm.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >case study
                Yes a real world practical actual human being going through physiological changes due to soi consumption. Where you say it's not possible, all it takes is one case to show that it is. Your premise is broken. There is no doubt that soi can cause these issues.
                >funding
                Imagine trying to pass off a sponsored study as perfectly acceptable. Disgusting. I'm sure you have 0 issue with big dairy sponsoring studies about milk being a superfood.
                >millions consuming soi with no ill effects
                Millions consume tobacco with no ill effects either. But at the right dose at a long enough time frame it does cause negative consequences. Which is why I'm not out here in a fitness community encouraging people to smoke. But I mean if Marlboro sponsored a study that said tobacco was good for you I'm sure you'd believe that too.
                >4 people
                For starters intentionally exposing people to a dangerous substance in high amounts doesn't often get past ethics boards. Second, once again this proves it can happen. If you still hold that it can't then nobody here is going to take you seriously. And what these men had in common were the levels of consumption. Between 300 and 400mg per day. You want to prove something? Go consume that much yourself. I certainly will not. And third, it's wild you will completely disregard the negative consequences on women and children in much smaller amounts. Lol. It's like you're addicted to soi that you're willing to sacrifice your wife and children just so you can keep pretending that it's healthy. Lastly,

                Soi protein blunts testosterone, whey protein decreases cortisol
                https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24015701/

                No reason to replace your whey with soi. It's inferior.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                NTA, but I had gyno from a ꜱoy-heavy diet that improved hugely once I cut out ꜱoy. It is odd to me seeing all the shills on IST advocating bad advice that is easily testable on one's self. For example, I also found out through experimenting with diet that grains are the reason why I have had so much GI-tract inflammation and bowel problems throughout life. I also found out that fruit and veg cause me to fart. I literally don't fart at all, not even while shitting, when I cut out all plant foods. I found out that prolonged fasting makes my skin clear and makes me feel 20x better than when I eat every day. I also now know that corn is not a food at all, but instead a tasty poison.

                My advice to any readers who don't know who to believe on diet is to just do what I did and experiment on yourself, sticking to a dietary change for at least 3 or 4 weeks to give it time to settle in, rather than taking the advice of bots and shills on IST. Assume every post you see on IST advocating a diet is a lying shill trying to harm you, until you have seen the effects yourself.

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    From what I hear, phyto-estrogen will block estrogen receptors and will actually help balance out your endocrinology in a healthy way. It is the xeno-estrogens from plastics and chemicals that are the bad ones.

    I don't know if it's true, but it sounds plausible.

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >feed flax seed to chickens
    >eat chicken
    >???
    >profit
    Alternatively eat wild caught deenz

    Reminder that animals (even fish) cannot make omega-3 nor omega-6. The ratio of these fats found in the their flesh and products like milk and eggs is a direct consequence of their diet.
    Although we do not consider leafy green plants (or algae) good sources of fats, their have very good omega-3 to 6 ratios. So eat leafy greens and/or eaters of leafy greens.

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Flaxseed isoflavone content is high but it's not going to have much of an impact on people. It's on par with peanut butter. Soi is really the only thing you need to worry about. It is an outlier to an extreme degree. The amount of isoflavones in soi foods is just obscene. You'd need to eat pounds, and I mean like 30 to 40 lbs of peanut butter to get the same amount of isoflavones as 100g of soi beans. That's what make soi dangerous and bad for you.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Pic related. And link
      >https://www.isoflavones.info/isoflavones-content/

      Info comes from the USDA. The highest isoflavone foods are dominated by soi. The entire first half of the list is just soi foods. Then you get to the bottom and there's some other beans, then below that things like sprouts and flax seeds. The estrogen in these foods are negligible, and probably have an equally negligible amount of phytosterols (sterols being the foundation of testosterone ie chole-sterol). You just need to avoid or heavily limit soi and you'll be fine.

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I honestly wouldn't worry about it
    but then again it is especially high AND flax seeds are something that are really easy to go without. I mean, you specifically have to include them in your diet to eat any

    so I'm really not sure if it's worth the added stress if it's causing you some

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Whats the source for your list that has flax above soi?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        no clue. I just picked a random image from google because that's kind of my point. I don't see flax seeds as being important enough to go through the process of trying to find out which study said what and who's the reliable source. they're not some common food ingredient but rather something you have to go out of your way to add to your diet.

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >scared of a seed

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Eat some

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >scared of a seed

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why would you eat flax? You're supposed to make bow strings with it.

  10. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    It’s ligmas you need to worry about

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Ligmas? What are those?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Ligma balls

  11. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Wait, wasn't this the supplement in on those meme pictures for better cum loads? Or was it some other seed?

  12. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >3.0311 omega 3:6 ratio
    Try chia seeds instead.

  13. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Soi isoflavones cause thyroid problems at only 20 to 40 grams of soi protein.
    >https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8266201/

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