Many shoulder injuries and asymmetries are caused by damage to the nerve feeding the serratus anterior muscle, which results in a weak serratus anteri...

Many shoulder injuries and asymmetries are caused by damage to the nerve feeding the serratus anterior muscle, which results in a weak serratus anterior, and poor shoulder mechanics.

The typical gym exercises will not do much for the serratus anterior, especially if it is already not working very well. This is because benching involves locking the scapular against the bench, and because upward rotation exercises such as OHP don't train the serratus that much, and compensation patterns that avoid the weak serratus anterior often occur.

To train the serratus anterior, you should be doing pushups (pushup plus is not necessary), and some other exercises of which I have not yet played around with. Some exercises which don't work are the typical stupid physio exercises like wall slides and cable or band punches and all kinds of stupid dumb shit that physiotherapists do.

Often a weak serratus on one side will make it seems like your other side's shoulder is higher. This is not mentioned on the internet. When your serratus is weak, it will often feel "tight" and also feel like it is actually your lat. Your chest and lat on that side will look significantly smaller, partly because the serratus that sits underneath it is so weak and small.

That is all. Goodnight.

  1. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    What about incline bench, is that any good for it?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      no. anything with back on bench is worthless because movement of scapula is distorted.. and also should be locking shoulders back on incline as well as flat.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        You're wasting your breath on this board bro. IST gays think that health and fitness are only measured by "the big three," steroid abuse, and sharing photos of their body to be reviewed by other men.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Mmm... yeah, I should probably... make a BLOG on substack or a YouTube channel or something.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          I apologize if the information provided did not align with the expectations of the intended audience. My purpose is to provide accurate and reliable information to the best of my abilities. It's important to remember that everyone has different goals, fitness level and physical conditions, thus what works for one person may not work for another. The importance of consulting with a qualified professional to ensure the safety and effectiveness of an exercise program, and personalized approach to training cannot be overstated. Additionally, the use of performance-enhancing drugs is illegal and dangerous and should be avoided.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Incline bench exercises can be beneficial for targeting and strengthening the serratus anterior muscle. The incline angle of the bench allows for a different angle of activation for the muscle, which can help to target it more effectively. Exercises such as incline push-ups or incline dumbbell press can be a good way to target the serratus anterior, especially when combined with other exercises that focus on scapular upward rotation. However, as with any exercise program, it is important to consult with a qualified professional to ensure that you are using proper form and technique, and that the exercises you choose are appropriate for your individual needs and fitness level.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        I apologize if the information provided did not align with the expectations of the intended audience. My purpose is to provide accurate and reliable information to the best of my abilities. It's important to remember that everyone has different goals, fitness level and physical conditions, thus what works for one person may not work for another. The importance of consulting with a qualified professional to ensure the safety and effectiveness of an exercise program, and personalized approach to training cannot be overstated. Additionally, the use of performance-enhancing drugs is illegal and dangerous and should be avoided.

        Pretty sure this isn't the case; while the lower traps do upwardly rotate the scapula, I've never felt my lower traps before on OHP, while I do feel my upper traps (which also upwardly rotate the scapula) a good bit. And IIRC there was a study out there (maybe i'm misremembering, not going to look for it rn) showing that among most lifters the lower traps are hardly any bigger/stronger compared to the general untrained population, while the upper traps are much stronger (hence the problem, massive imbalance between the upper and lower traps).

        Infraspinatus and teres minor tend to be very weak as well since most people don't train external rotation, and among the ones that do most of them do facepulls, which in my opinion are pretty poor for those muscles because facepulls bias the rear delts much more (which isn't really a bad thing since weak rear delts also cause problems, but you want all 3 external rotators to be strong ideally)

        You are correct that the lower traps, along with the upper traps, do upwardly rotate the scapula and that the upper traps are often stronger than the lower traps in lifters. This can lead to an imbalance between the two muscles and can contribute to shoulder problems. In addition to the pushups and incline bench exercises, exercises that specifically target the lower traps and other scapular muscles such as the infraspinatus and teres minor, can be helpful in addressing this imbalance. Some examples of exercises that can target these muscles include external rotation exercises with a cable or band, exercises that focus on scapular retraction such as pull-ups or rows and exercises that focus on scapular depression such as the prone Y, T, W and L raises.
        It's also important to note that when training the external rotation, it's important to be aware of the body mechanics and movements to avoid overtraining one muscle and neglecting the other, and also to consult with a qualified professional to help you in creating a well-rounded training program.

        Uppercut exercises, such as cable or dumbbell uppercuts, can be a good way to target the serratus anterior and other scapular muscles that are important for shoulder function. The rotational movement of the uppercut exercise can help to target the serratus anterior and other muscles in the scapula, which can help to improve shoulder stability and overall shoulder health.

        Using weight, such as dumbbells or a cable machine, can increase the resistance and intensity of the exercise, making it more effective at building strength and muscle mass in the targeted muscles.
        It's important to keep in mind that adding weight to any exercise increases the risk of injury if proper form and technique are not used, so it's important to start with a light weight and gradually increase as your strength improves.

        Botposts

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      based

      no because you lose the free movement of the body. so much body building involves locking specific muscle groups so that you can target other muscle groups.
      That's not the same as doing a fluid movement.
      When you pushup, all the boy parts move fluidly.
      You should do the same for all body parts.
      Instead of squatting with weights, just squat with your body weight and let the body move mechanically correct and not rigid.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        You know that you can protract on the positive on incline bench, right? Only into neutral from retracted, not full protraction, but that still uses the serratus anterior. And either way, you can do both bodyweight movements and barbell movements with no problems.
        >t. does deep ring dips and pushups as well as incline bench twice a week

  2. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >Often a weak serratus on one side will make it seems like your other side's shoulder is higher.

    wait I've had this problem for years. seriously? time to work on my serratus.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Well, there are many causes of this issue (including scoliosis and so on). If it is serratus related, the next day after doing lots of pushups, the area that seems like the chest and lats will seem sore (is actually the serratus) much more or only on the weak side. Also should notice the tightness already (in what seems like that lat on that side). If not, it is caused by something else.

  3. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    also side with weak serratus will have a anterior tilt of shoulder (shoulder looks like it is tipped forward) from over active pec minor as pec minor will substitute for serratus to make protraction like movements.

  4. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    The serratus anterior muscle is important for shoulder function and many shoulder injuries and asymmetries can be caused by damage to the nerve that feeds the muscle. Typical gym exercises such as benching and overhead pressing may not be effective for training the serratus anterior if it is already weak. Pushups and other exercises, such as those that focus on scapular upward rotation, can be helpful in training this muscle. Some exercises, such as wall slides and cable or band punches, may not be effective. A weak serratus on one side can cause the shoulder to appear higher on that side and may feel "tight" or like the lat muscle.

  5. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Good thread OP. I'd like to add that most people also have very weak lower traps, infraspinatus, and teres minor, which can also be the cause of shoulder problems.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      lower traps get worked heavy on OHP unlike serratus. Although, some people ironically avoid OHP for shoulder issues.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Pretty sure this isn't the case; while the lower traps do upwardly rotate the scapula, I've never felt my lower traps before on OHP, while I do feel my upper traps (which also upwardly rotate the scapula) a good bit. And IIRC there was a study out there (maybe i'm misremembering, not going to look for it rn) showing that among most lifters the lower traps are hardly any bigger/stronger compared to the general untrained population, while the upper traps are much stronger (hence the problem, massive imbalance between the upper and lower traps).

        Infraspinatus and teres minor tend to be very weak as well since most people don't train external rotation, and among the ones that do most of them do facepulls, which in my opinion are pretty poor for those muscles because facepulls bias the rear delts much more (which isn't really a bad thing since weak rear delts also cause problems, but you want all 3 external rotators to be strong ideally)

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          You are correct that the lower traps, along with the upper traps, do upwardly rotate the scapula and that the upper traps are often stronger than the lower traps in lifters. This can lead to an imbalance between the two muscles and can contribute to shoulder problems. In addition to the pushups and incline bench exercises, exercises that specifically target the lower traps and other scapular muscles such as the infraspinatus and teres minor, can be helpful in addressing this imbalance. Some examples of exercises that can target these muscles include external rotation exercises with a cable or band, exercises that focus on scapular retraction such as pull-ups or rows and exercises that focus on scapular depression such as the prone Y, T, W and L raises.
          It's also important to note that when training the external rotation, it's important to be aware of the body mechanics and movements to avoid overtraining one muscle and neglecting the other, and also to consult with a qualified professional to help you in creating a well-rounded training program.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          What would you recommend for rotator cuff?

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Any kind of pure external rotation exercise, doesn't really matter too much. DB external rotations (not the dumbass version that doesn't do anything because gravity, do the ones with your shoulder in abduction and flexion), cable external rotations, etc

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          I have definitely felt them... well actually more so with a wide grip, not a standard OHP grip. This study https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1360859221000255 showed high lower trap on moving arm upwards, and high serratus on push up, which aligns with my experience that upper and lower traps work a lot on upward rotation of scapula

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Well from my experience, despite being an avid overhead presser for a good bit of my lifting career (There was a period where I stopped completely, but I've since started again and I'm doing 6 sets a week of vertical pressing) I still had very weak lower traps. My serratus has never been a problem but then again I've always had some form of pushup somewhere in my training so that's probably why. To be fair I've never used a wide grip on vertical presses, on both OHP and BTNP I use a very narrow grip (pretty much the same as what I would use on close grip bench)

  6. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    You gotta do uppercuts. With weight preferably.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Uppercut exercises, such as cable or dumbbell uppercuts, can be a good way to target the serratus anterior and other scapular muscles that are important for shoulder function. The rotational movement of the uppercut exercise can help to target the serratus anterior and other muscles in the scapula, which can help to improve shoulder stability and overall shoulder health.

      Using weight, such as dumbbells or a cable machine, can increase the resistance and intensity of the exercise, making it more effective at building strength and muscle mass in the targeted muscles.
      It's important to keep in mind that adding weight to any exercise increases the risk of injury if proper form and technique are not used, so it's important to start with a light weight and gradually increase as your strength improves.

  7. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Yes bench press is a meme I said it in another thread and they called me a fag
    I recommend cobra pushups

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      well, bench press is probably the most unnatural exercise people do at the gym, but it is also the most effective at building the chest. Pushups and other bodyweight exercises aren't going to do that much for muscle mass or mental health improvements that lifting external weight brings. Therefore, until somebody comes up with a loaded exercise for the chest that isn't on a bench, I will keep doing it and recommending just doing pushups to get the serratus activation.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >Pushups and other bodyweight exercises aren't going to do that much for muscle mass or mental health improvements that lifting external weight brings.
        Wrong. Do slow eccentric paused deep ring pushups and dips and see how many reps you get. I can do 35+ pushups easily even if I'm not fresh, but I can only do like 9 ring dips when I'm completely fresh

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >or mental health improvements that lifting external weight brings.
        tf are you on about. For mental health, HIIT or hot yoga is best

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >hot yoga
          I have seen this a couple of times but have no idea what it is
          I do regular yoga though

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            It's when you are hot and you do yoga. It's hot yoga. Yo. Yooghe nevritmus and guess it's good for you.

  8. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Doctor of physical therapy here. This post is a bunch of bullshit, posted by an anonymous idiot. Ask me anything.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      how does it feel wasting 4 years of your life to not know how to actually fix any people's issues but just take their money after giving them worthless complicated band exercises?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      How much does the rabbi pay you to post here?

  9. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I suspect im in this situation, and I also have some scoliosis. Any specific pushup technique you recommend? I've been trying to simply focus on my left side to avoid doing all the work with the strong side

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      nah just a basic pushup. I am trying out some other ideas for different exercises as well, but haven't got anything solid yet. I might try one arm pushups at some point.

      Some things I have tried that don't work:

      serratus "punch" type exercises that mimic a punch but with cables and bands and things.
      pushup with the "plus" doesn't really add that much to the exercise and can cause other issues
      planks and ab rollouts dont do anything
      wall slides dont do anything

      some things that show promise:

      that kind of thing. a standing cable crunch with rope behind instead of in front. works a bit
      one arm db row can sometimes work because support hand can retract and protract to help other hand cheat up weight.. but hard to get working properly.
      I also noticed reaching forward to grab the sides of my mattress and pull it towards me worked them. I noticed tricep pushdowns kind of worked a little, and then the mattress thing worked better... adding in that protracting / reaching out and the inward forward of pressing the sides of the mattress to get grip kind of makes it much better.. haven't turned it into an exercise at the gym yet. noticed the same with that ski erg machine.. but none of them are as effective as mattress...

      anyway, I think pushups should be enough so might not need to experiment much

      haven't tried gymnast tuck type of exercise on parallel bars... might work

  10. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    yesterday I was streching/fucking around and got in a weird wall pushup kind of position and did a few reps.
    It almost completely felt in the serratus and it hurt alot (in a good way)

  11. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Any suggestions on fixing pectus excavatum? Ive been looking into calisthenics and the more i exercise I notice how messed up my upper back/shoulders are. When I do L-sits or any pushing exercise I feel that my body is extremely uneven. Im planning a workout for next week which incorporates vertical push/pull and horizontal push pull. In the book I am reading it suggests training for V-sit/Manna progressions and handstands. I am wondering if I should continue training all the muscles or focus only on the upper back/shoulders till everything starts to fall back into place. I have seen a bit of improvement so far with band pull aparts and various stretches/exercises that target the region; however it is going at a snails pace. Any info is appreciated.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      I would think it can only be fixed with surgery.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        I think it is possible to fix it, maybe not completely. Theres a lot of cartilage around that area so stretching it apart could help alleviate the problem? As I have been focusing more on my shoulders and upper back I have seen a noticeable improvement.

        Lets say minus the pectus excavatum, my right shoulder is underdeveloped compared to my left, should I focus on rehabilitation of the shoulder for equilibrium or continue with the full body workouts.

  12. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Firat of all, bench with locked scapula is unnatural movement. It will give you biceps tendonitis and shoulder issues guaranteed. Yes, it's awesome for cheat and lifting heavy, but I allow my scapula to move freely. And for chest I do dumbell press with freely moving scapula. It's even better than benchpress.

    I do wall slides not to train serratus, but to teach it to move scapula to the side while I raise my hands, instead or raising it up.
    To train serratus i do bench and dumbell press as described. I tries cable punches, but it feels terrible, so I switched to single hand push ups withou the pushup itself. Only scapula moves. I would call it single straight hand push up. The palm is rotated outside.
    Op, do you know any good exercises for a lower trap? Infraspinatus and teres minor are easy to train with band and cables. But for lower trap I didn't come up with anything better than hanging and contracting scapula for reps.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      you must lock scapula on bench otherwise you will fuck up shoulders because bench interferes with scapula motion.

      lower traps - wide grip OHP I can feel lower traps but I just do standard grip. Should still hit lower traps. I do kind of face pulls with one arm but not so much external rotation.. much punch grip, and one arm db rows... supposedly they all work lower traps but never really feel it.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        The reason why powershitter lock scapula is to have a better stretch for chest and to have lower range of motion aka to have higher pec hypotrophy and to lift higher weight. It has nothing to do with the health of ahoulders. In fact, all powershitter have biceps tendonitis because of that and often get shoulder injuries. Scapula is ment to stabilize the shoulder. Our brain moves it automatically. The worst thibg you can do, is to keel it retracted during bench. Yes, you will lift more, but you will eventually pay for it. It's a deal with the devil.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          nope, everybody who still benches without injury locks shoulders. scapula can't move properly while 100kg is pressing them against bench...

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Yes, if serratus is weak cuz they were locking scapula. I can bench 100 kg and doing it with moving scapula. The only time I had and injury, was many years ago when I used to lock scapula because of powershitters spamming their retarded technique. Every movent they do is retarded and is pure vanity for higher numbers. They don't give a single fuck about healthy back and joints.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        That's how you have to bench for shoulder safety. Anything else will fuck you up.

  13. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >the typical gym exercises will not do much for the serratus anterior
    Not true. Pretty much any beginner routine will have a pull up or something. It's scapular protraction/retraction that trains it and serratus "isolations" are hilarious.
    >push up plus
    Did you copy this entire post from exrx? Nobody fucking knows what a "pushup plus" is.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      pulls up... lol... you don't even know what protraction/retraction is... that would be elevation/depression. You don't know what ANYTHING is, and this is a thread for people who want to know, have issues they need to fix etc, not for people who have nothing else to do and need to get their post count up.

  14. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I'm sure half of these messages were generated using ChatGPT

  15. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Looks like stretched out almonds. I like almonds.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      I see that.
      Damn bro

  16. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Straight arm dumbell pullovers

Your email address will not be published.