Minox surpresses tesosterone

Minox bros ...

>Minoxidil treatment resulted in a 0.22 fold change for 5α-R2 (p < 0.0001). This antiandrogenic effect of minoxidil, shown by significant downregulation of 5α-R2 androgen gene expression in HaCaT cells, may be one of its mechanisms of action in alopecia.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30064598/

oh nonononono ...

>Although minoxidil has been used for more than two decades to treat androgenetic alopecia (AGA), an androgen-androgen receptor (AR) pathway-dominant disease, its precise mechanism of action remains elusive. We hypothesized that minoxidil may influence the AR or its downstream signaling. These tests revealed that minoxidil suppressed AR-related functions, decreasing AR transcriptional activity in reporter assays, reducing expression of AR targets at the protein level, and suppressing AR-positive LNCaP cell growth.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4039155/

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    People who use fin or minox to suppress DHT to maintain a girly hairline are playing with biochemical consequences they don't understand

    DHT is related to lower systemic inflammation and faster healing of inflammatory response
    >Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) Enhances Wound Healing of Major Burn Injury by Accelerating Resolution of Inflammation in Mice
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7504698/

    DHT is associated with lower all-cause mortality, increased lipid synthesis, delayed cognitive decline with age, and significantly lower diabetes risk/insulin resistance
    >Intracellular DHT is a more potent androgenic agonist than T and increases total serum T.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6459338/

    DHT suppresses whole body inflammatory diseases (which range from things like acne to cancer)
    >Dihydrotanshinone I Specifically Inhibits NLRP3 Inflammasome Activation
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8552015/

    DHT robustly increases bone density and skeletal strength
    >Dihydrotestosterone, a robust promoter of osteoblastic proliferation and differentiation
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5651475/

    Suppression of DHT is associated with long-term male specific cancers
    >The Loss of Masculinity With Declined Serum DHT Is Associated With High Risk of Carcinoma in Chinese Men
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7339940/

    DHT is associated with male neurogenesis and ability to learn new things
    >Androgens Enhance Adult Hippocampal Neurogenesis in Males but Not Females
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6736050/

    DHT is linked to increased muscular hypertrophy
    >Androgens interacts with exercise through the mTOR pathway to induce skeletal muscle hypertrophy
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29472733/

    DHT is linked to longer stamina while simultaneously burning more fat during cardio
    >Role of dihydrotestosterone in whole-body energy utilization during acute running exercise
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30149420/

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >dihydrotanshinone 1

      anon did you even read the titles lol

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      tldr: the reason minox reverses hair loss, biologically, is because it suppresses both DHT and T androgen receptors. This wasn't previously thought to be possible but new research since 2017 shows that minoxidil indeed lowers testosterone (and not just DHT:T conversion, though it does that too).

      People talk about fin being a "chud drug" because it suppresses androgens to reverse hairloss, but minoxidil does the exact same thing! Fin and minox work by LITERALLY turning you into a woman.

      On the flip side...

      >The effects of creatine and creatine plus beta-alanine on strength, power, body composition, and endocrine changes were examined during a 10-wk resistance training program in collegiate football players. Thirty-three male subjects were randomly assigned to either a placebo (P), creatine (C), or creatine plus beta-alanine (CA) group. [...] Resting testosterone concentrations were elevated in C.
      https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17136944/

      >Levels of DHT and T increased by 56% after 7 days of creatine loading and remained 40% above baseline after 14 days maintenance (P < 0.001). The ratio of DHT:T also increased by 36% after 7 days creatine supplementation and remained elevated by 22% after the maintenance dose (P < 0.01).
      >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19741313/

      Creatine INCREASES testosterone. It is also well known that creatine also can accelerate hairloss. Hairloss, by connection with our minox/fin and creatine findings, is linked to higher testosterone biologically. Thus, we can assume bald men were sexually selected for over time for reproductive capability. In short, only little boys and low test "men" have their hair into their late 20s/30s, quite literally speaking. If you don't have a receding hairline, you're not a man.

      /thread

      [...]
      [...]
      Minox works because it increases subdermal blood flow to the follices, it doesn't "mature" vellus hair as much as supply bloodflow to dormant follices. The method which it acts upon (up until recently) was thought to not involve testosterone at all. However recent research (see [...]) has shown that minox actually has the same side effects that fin does (ie, not suppresses DHT, which promotes hairgrowth) but downregulate ALL androgen receptors (thus making DHT and T less effective and decreasing total serum androgen).
      [...]
      are you retarded? the linked research from 2015, 2017 and now a clinical review in 2020 has shown that minox DOES affect androgen sensitivity, to both DHT and T (see [...]). You're literally taking a chud drug which lowers your total androgens. previously it was thought that minox was same and had no hormonal effect but this is not the case.

      again, if you read the research, the method of action for minoxidil to cause hair growth is related to increasing blood flow, no testosterone is involved. Only recently was it discovered that minox has the same negative affect on total androgen as finasteride. There's increasing reports of young guys suffering severe sexual dysfunction from topical minox, especially to try to grow a beard.

      If you want to attempt hair growth, your best natural bet is dermarolling and maybe topical peppermint or jojoba or castor oil. Stay away from fin/minox.

      Yes, but the negative effects of minoxidil that they studied were found even through topical administration. Also on your face (where a lot of zoomies are putting it now) it enter your blood very quickly and has far more absorption than scalp administration

      >if you do your research!!!
      >studies show!!!
      >experts say!!!

      bald fags are suurreee getting desperate justifying letting themselves go bald when there are DOZENS of treatments that work with ZERO sides.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >y-you're making it up!!
        >Our characterization of the relationship between minoxidil and AR [androgen receptivity] showed that minoxidil interferes with AR-related functions, decreasing AR transcriptional activity, reducing expression of targets at the protein level, and suppressing AR-positive LNCaP cell growth. Furthermore, our mechanistic studies showed that the suppressive effect of minoxidil on AR-related functions reflected its ability to directly bind to the AR; interfere with AR-peptide, AR-coregulator and AR N-C interactions; and reduce AR protein stability.

        HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    tldr: the reason minox reverses hair loss, biologically, is because it suppresses both DHT and T androgen receptors. This wasn't previously thought to be possible but new research since 2017 shows that minoxidil indeed lowers testosterone (and not just DHT:T conversion, though it does that too).

    People talk about fin being a "chud drug" because it suppresses androgens to reverse hairloss, but minoxidil does the exact same thing! Fin and minox work by LITERALLY turning you into a woman.

    On the flip side...

    >The effects of creatine and creatine plus beta-alanine on strength, power, body composition, and endocrine changes were examined during a 10-wk resistance training program in collegiate football players. Thirty-three male subjects were randomly assigned to either a placebo (P), creatine (C), or creatine plus beta-alanine (CA) group. [...] Resting testosterone concentrations were elevated in C.
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17136944/

    >Levels of DHT and T increased by 56% after 7 days of creatine loading and remained 40% above baseline after 14 days maintenance (P < 0.001). The ratio of DHT:T also increased by 36% after 7 days creatine supplementation and remained elevated by 22% after the maintenance dose (P < 0.01).
    >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19741313/

    Creatine INCREASES testosterone. It is also well known that creatine also can accelerate hairloss. Hairloss, by connection with our minox/fin and creatine findings, is linked to higher testosterone biologically. Thus, we can assume bald men were sexually selected for over time for reproductive capability. In short, only little boys and low test "men" have their hair into their late 20s/30s, quite literally speaking. If you don't have a receding hairline, you're not a man.

    /thread

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >If you don't have a receding hairline, you're not a man.
      sweet

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Now explain why there's a whole host of retards over at r/minoxbeards slathering this shit on their face getting results if it's an androgen suppressant. Testosterone and its derivatives need to bind to a hair follicle to mature it.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Because it matures facial hair follicles by some other mechanism?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        The substance is a blood thinner, hair follicles will only mature from vellus to terminal if androgen hormones bind to the root. Thinner blood means there's more of a chance for test to bind to the hair. FtM trannies use this stuff in conjunction to their testosterone meds and they still end up with full facial/body hair. Stop being a falseflagging gay.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          So if I take viagra daily will my beard gains increase?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Good thing im not a nattycuck

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      They're all setting themselves up for a big fall. Desperation makes people foolish.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Because it matures facial hair follicles by some other mechanism?

      The substance is a blood thinner, hair follicles will only mature from vellus to terminal if androgen hormones bind to the root. Thinner blood means there's more of a chance for test to bind to the hair. FtM trannies use this stuff in conjunction to their testosterone meds and they still end up with full facial/body hair. Stop being a falseflagging gay.

      Minox works because it increases subdermal blood flow to the follices, it doesn't "mature" vellus hair as much as supply bloodflow to dormant follices. The method which it acts upon (up until recently) was thought to not involve testosterone at all. However recent research (see

      https://i.imgur.com/hyJKmGa.png

      Minox bros ...

      >Minoxidil treatment resulted in a 0.22 fold change for 5α-R2 (p < 0.0001). This antiandrogenic effect of minoxidil, shown by significant downregulation of 5α-R2 androgen gene expression in HaCaT cells, may be one of its mechanisms of action in alopecia.
      https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30064598/

      oh nonononono ...

      >Although minoxidil has been used for more than two decades to treat androgenetic alopecia (AGA), an androgen-androgen receptor (AR) pathway-dominant disease, its precise mechanism of action remains elusive. We hypothesized that minoxidil may influence the AR or its downstream signaling. These tests revealed that minoxidil suppressed AR-related functions, decreasing AR transcriptional activity in reporter assays, reducing expression of AR targets at the protein level, and suppressing AR-positive LNCaP cell growth.
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4039155/

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      ) has shown that minox actually has the same side effects that fin does (ie, not suppresses DHT, which promotes hairgrowth) but downregulate ALL androgen receptors (thus making DHT and T less effective and decreasing total serum androgen).

      Go shill somewhere else you feel mongering garden gnome

      Minox has been used for treeting hairloss since 1988, and it's mechanism behind improving hairloss is widely unknown. If minoxidil's mechanism was as simple as suppressing testosterone, this fact would already be widely known.

      Also, some sides of minox include INCREASED test, and extra growth of hair all around the body.

      You are trying to shill poor newfags creatine, which some studies and anecdotal evidence show increases DHT (WHICH IS THE ROOT CAUSE TO MPB)

      are you retarded? the linked research from 2015, 2017 and now a clinical review in 2020 has shown that minox DOES affect androgen sensitivity, to both DHT and T (see

      https://i.imgur.com/hyJKmGa.png

      Minox bros ...

      >Minoxidil treatment resulted in a 0.22 fold change for 5α-R2 (p < 0.0001). This antiandrogenic effect of minoxidil, shown by significant downregulation of 5α-R2 androgen gene expression in HaCaT cells, may be one of its mechanisms of action in alopecia.
      https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30064598/

      oh nonononono ...

      >Although minoxidil has been used for more than two decades to treat androgenetic alopecia (AGA), an androgen-androgen receptor (AR) pathway-dominant disease, its precise mechanism of action remains elusive. We hypothesized that minoxidil may influence the AR or its downstream signaling. These tests revealed that minoxidil suppressed AR-related functions, decreasing AR transcriptional activity in reporter assays, reducing expression of AR targets at the protein level, and suppressing AR-positive LNCaP cell growth.
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4039155/

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      ). You're literally taking a chud drug which lowers your total androgens. previously it was thought that minox was same and had no hormonal effect but this is not the case.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        It must not be very significant impact on androgens, since you can get a beard and chest hair from rubbing it there

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          again, if you read the research, the method of action for minoxidil to cause hair growth is related to increasing blood flow, no testosterone is involved. Only recently was it discovered that minox has the same negative affect on total androgen as finasteride. There's increasing reports of young guys suffering severe sexual dysfunction from topical minox, especially to try to grow a beard.

          If you want to attempt hair growth, your best natural bet is dermarolling and maybe topical peppermint or jojoba or castor oil. Stay away from fin/minox.

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Go shill somewhere else you feel mongering garden gnome

    Minox has been used for treeting hairloss since 1988, and it's mechanism behind improving hairloss is widely unknown. If minoxidil's mechanism was as simple as suppressing testosterone, this fact would already be widely known.

    Also, some sides of minox include INCREASED test, and extra growth of hair all around the body.

    You are trying to shill poor newfags creatine, which some studies and anecdotal evidence show increases DHT (WHICH IS THE ROOT CAUSE TO MPB)

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    do people even take minox internally? I don't understand what the point of any of this is.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Don't care, I started using it a couple of days ago for beard gains. Honestly I don't believe in side effects anymore, I've been on all kinds of shit including two years of SSRIs and I never got any of the negative effects advertised with any medicine. I'll take my chances

      no (not usually) but it still gets absorbed by your skin and enters your bloodstream

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Yes, but the negative effects of minoxidil that they studied were found even through topical administration. Also on your face (where a lot of zoomies are putting it now) it enter your blood very quickly and has far more absorption than scalp administration

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Don't care, I started using it a couple of days ago for beard gains. Honestly I don't believe in side effects anymore, I've been on all kinds of shit including two years of SSRIs and I never got any of the negative effects advertised with any medicine. I'll take my chances

        no (not usually) but it still gets absorbed by your skin and enters your bloodstream

        in what degree assuming oral is 100% or close to it?

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          so according to

          https://i.imgur.com/hyJKmGa.png

          Minox bros ...

          >Minoxidil treatment resulted in a 0.22 fold change for 5α-R2 (p < 0.0001). This antiandrogenic effect of minoxidil, shown by significant downregulation of 5α-R2 androgen gene expression in HaCaT cells, may be one of its mechanisms of action in alopecia.
          https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30064598/

          oh nonononono ...

          >Although minoxidil has been used for more than two decades to treat androgenetic alopecia (AGA), an androgen-androgen receptor (AR) pathway-dominant disease, its precise mechanism of action remains elusive. We hypothesized that minoxidil may influence the AR or its downstream signaling. These tests revealed that minoxidil suppressed AR-related functions, decreasing AR transcriptional activity in reporter assays, reducing expression of AR targets at the protein level, and suppressing AR-positive LNCaP cell growth.
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4039155/

          HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

          10 μM/kg oral intake is equivalent to 5% topical (100 mM). here's a quote from the study
          >To test minoxidil effects on AR protein stability, we treated cells with 10 μM minoxidil for different lengths of time in the presence of cyclohexamide to block new protein synthesis and examined the time course of AR protein disappearance by Western blotting. As shown in Fig. Fig.2D,2D, minoxidil induced a decrease in AR protein that was most evident 8 h after treatment, at which point AR protein levels were 16% of pretreatment values. [...] These observations suggest that the mechanism of action of minoxidil may include a decreased in AR stability.

          So after 8h, total androgen receptors were decreased by 84% with the equivalent of 5% topical administration

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous
            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              tbf it's an in vitro experiment so it's borderline useless
              >we first tested minoxidil in an AR transcription reporter assay using LNCaP prostate cancer cells, which harbor an endogenous AR with a T877A mutation. Cells were transiently transfected with an AR-responsive MMTV (mouse mammalian tumor virus)-Luc construct and treated with different concentrations of minoxidil. Minoxidil concentrations were chosen based on most common reports in the literature: 0.1 to 10 μM for oral intake and about 1 mM for topical application of 5% minoxidil (100 mM) in skin tissue (Regaine 5% minoxidil topical solution; monograph, February 2013), assuming 1.7% absorption. In in vitro organ culture or animal studies, high concentrations, ranging from 1-100 mM, have been reported in skin tissue [31, 32]. After treating with different concentrations of minoxidil (1 to 100 μM), cells were harvested and cellular extracts were assayed for luciferase activity. As shown in Fig. Fig.1A,1A, minoxidil suppressed AR reporter activity at the concentrations tested.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous
          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >10 μM/kg oral intake is equivalent to 5% topical (100 mM).
            you mean mL right I don't understand what measurement this is. 100 mL would still be 100 times the normal topical dose.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              μM is micrometer, mM is millimeter. 10 μM per kg is 0.01 mM per kg

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                im not sure the volumetric conversion or how the units were calculated, that's just the units they gave in the study and the oral/topical equivalent

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >capital M stands for meters
                retard, it's mole aka 6,022x10^(23) molecules

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                im not sure the volumetric conversion or how the units were calculated, that's just the units they gave in the study and the oral/topical equivalent

                μM is micrometer, mM is millimeter. 10 μM per kg is 0.01 mM per kg

                >10 μM/kg oral intake is equivalent to 5% topical (100 mM).
                you mean mL right I don't understand what measurement this is. 100 mL would still be 100 times the normal topical dose.

                What is the conversion to mg or ml? anyone?

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                I really don't know. I was asking because I don't understand the amounts they're comparing. I'm just curious because I've been using 1 mL twice a day on my scalp for 3 years and my semiannual labs haven't had any real changes before or after.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Scroll at your own discretion https://www.reddit.com/user/cocol_hasher/

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        I can't I blocked reddit on my router just qrd me

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          it's a soia boy taking oral minox to become a hairy monkey. Judging by the comments under one of his posts he also posted his hairy asshole, glad I managed to dodge that

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous
  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    It says nowhere that it suppresses testosterone,
    You are just a brainlet who misinterprets big words in scientific studies and draws the wrong conclusion.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      so according to [...] 10 μM/kg oral intake is equivalent to 5% topical (100 mM). here's a quote from the study
      >To test minoxidil effects on AR protein stability, we treated cells with 10 μM minoxidil for different lengths of time in the presence of cyclohexamide to block new protein synthesis and examined the time course of AR protein disappearance by Western blotting. As shown in Fig. Fig.2D,2D, minoxidil induced a decrease in AR protein that was most evident 8 h after treatment, at which point AR protein levels were 16% of pretreatment values. [...] These observations suggest that the mechanism of action of minoxidil may include a decreased in AR stability.

      So after 8h, total androgen receptors were decreased by 84% with the equivalent of 5% topical administration

      >y-you're making it up!!
      >Our characterization of the relationship between minoxidil and AR [androgen receptivity] showed that minoxidil interferes with AR-related functions, decreasing AR transcriptional activity, reducing expression of targets at the protein level, and suppressing AR-positive LNCaP cell growth. Furthermore, our mechanistic studies showed that the suppressive effect of minoxidil on AR-related functions reflected its ability to directly bind to the AR; interfere with AR-peptide, AR-coregulator and AR N-C interactions; and reduce AR protein stability.

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

      it reduces androgen receptor function, ie total serum testosterone will go down as less will be able to be utilized biochemically. cope and seethe.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        If the androgen receptors sensitivity is reduced, the body will compensate by INCREASING testosterone.

        https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10323411/

        https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32493623/

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          You're retarded, both studies you link show
          >"a complete absence of androgen binding"
          when ARs are downregulated
          > Hormonal substitution therapy should be administered
          If you downregulate your ARs with chud drugs like min and fin, you'll need to use LITERAL hormone substitution therapy to increase serum T

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            You are retarded, if you reduce the sensitivity of the androgen receptor, you will reduce the negative feedback signal of testosterone on the hypothalamus and pituitary.
            This will cause a compensatory increases in LH drive to the testicles to increase testosterone.
            This is why men with higher CAG repeats on the androgen receptor and men born with PAIS or CAIS will have higher serum testosterone.
            The higher the CAG repeats, the lower the sensitivity of the androgen receptor to testosterone. The higher the CAG repeats, the higher the testosterone as the body tries to compensate for the sensitivity loss in the androgen receptor.

            https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20534771/
            https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17579205/
            https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24465978/
            https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10396030/

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              >But doesn't test need the AR's to actually be utilized?
              Yes

              >What good is having a ton of test if the test can't bind to the receptor site?
              Who are you referring to?

              again, if AR function is reduced, higher levels of free T or DHT are completely irrelevant to actual T/DHT utilization. By your logic PAIS patients should have hyper masculine secondary sex features due to increased free T - yet the exact opposite happens because, with AR functionality reduced, as happens with minox and fin (!), the same effects of PAIS will result, with reduced severity of course. You're doing some serious mental gymnastics to justify that minox reducing AR function is
              >A GOOD THING OK, NOOOOOO REDUCING MY ABILITY TO UTILIZE TESTOSTERONE IN MY BODY IS THE POINT OK!!!

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                I'm saying that the reduction in AR function caused by minoxidil (if it even exists in actual humans who apply it topically, not in a study using cultured cells in a lab) is adequately compensated for by a proportionate increase in testosterone to reestablish homeostasis.

                Please provide studies that show AR function throughout the entire body is negatively affected in actual human beings using minoxidil in an appropriate way, ie topically on the head.

                In the case of people with PAIS, their body is not capable of producing enough testosterone to compensate for their condition. There are hard limits to how much testosterone balls can produce naturally. If there was no limits, then very large amounts of testosterone would be able to compensate for their condition. This is why they need to go on exogenous testosterone at high doses beyond what their body can reproduce in order to have masculinizing effects.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                You're coping hard as fuck rn, the original PAIS articles you linked showed PIAS is a deficient disorder in AR, not in serum T (the same thing minoxidil causes). There's no current in vivo studies because this research has only been coming out recently (within the past 5 year), but it's complete mental gymnastics to say
                >NOOOO IT CAN'T BE REAL, YOU HAVE TO ONLY COUNT IN VIVO STUDIES!!!
                Btw, if you read both studies, the effect on AR downregulation from minoxidil is from TOPICAL administration at equivalent 5% doses with 84% AR reduction after 8 hours. That's a fucking insane effect on T and DHT utilization and will have significant hormonal effects.

                Take minox and fin at your peril, but when you get ED and sexual dysfunction (not to mention the many bad symptoms of reduced DHT to T to begin with

                People who use fin or minox to suppress DHT to maintain a girly hairline are playing with biochemical consequences they don't understand

                DHT is related to lower systemic inflammation and faster healing of inflammatory response
                >Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) Enhances Wound Healing of Major Burn Injury by Accelerating Resolution of Inflammation in Mice
                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7504698/

                DHT is associated with lower all-cause mortality, increased lipid synthesis, delayed cognitive decline with age, and significantly lower diabetes risk/insulin resistance
                >Intracellular DHT is a more potent androgenic agonist than T and increases total serum T.
                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6459338/

                DHT suppresses whole body inflammatory diseases (which range from things like acne to cancer)
                >Dihydrotanshinone I Specifically Inhibits NLRP3 Inflammasome Activation
                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8552015/

                DHT robustly increases bone density and skeletal strength
                >Dihydrotestosterone, a robust promoter of osteoblastic proliferation and differentiation
                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5651475/

                Suppression of DHT is associated with long-term male specific cancers
                >The Loss of Masculinity With Declined Serum DHT Is Associated With High Risk of Carcinoma in Chinese Men
                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7339940/

                DHT is associated with male neurogenesis and ability to learn new things
                >Androgens Enhance Adult Hippocampal Neurogenesis in Males but Not Females
                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6736050/

                DHT is linked to increased muscular hypertrophy
                >Androgens interacts with exercise through the mTOR pathway to induce skeletal muscle hypertrophy
                https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29472733/

                DHT is linked to longer stamina while simultaneously burning more fat during cardio
                >Role of dihydrotestosterone in whole-body energy utilization during acute running exercise
                https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30149420/

                ), don't say the data didn't point to it. All this to save a girly hairline for a couple more years at best.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >You're coping hard as fuck rn, the original PAIS articles you linked showed PIAS is a deficient disorder in AR, not in serum T (the same thing minoxidil causes).
                Why are you hyper-focusing on PAIS. I was just using that as an example on how the body reacts to a reduction in AR function.
                Read the CAG repeat studies for the effects of varying androgen receptor sensitivity in normal healthy men. Men with less sensitive androgen receptors tend to have higher test levels on average. Their bodies are compensating to maintain normal male function.
                You are act like as soon as a man puts some minoxidil on his head all hell breaks loose.
                >There's no current in vivo studies because this research has only been coming out recently (within the past 5 year), but it's complete mental gymnastics to say
                IT CAN'T BE REAL, YOU HAVE TO ONLY COUNT IN VIVO STUDIES!!!
                It's not mental gymnastics, it's rational thinking. You are the one over reacting to an in vitro study like a hysterical sissy. You are the one using mental gymnastics to equate the effects of minoxidil on a small amount of cells in a lab to the effects in the entire body of a human.
                >Btw, if you read both studies, the effect on AR downregulation from minoxidil is from TOPICAL administration at equivalent 5% doses with 84% AR reduction after 8 hours. That's a fucking insane effect on T and DHT utilization and will have significant hormonal effects.
                But that AR effect could be locally at the scalp where concentrations of minoxidil are high, not over the entire body. There is no evidence of applying a small amount of minoxidil to the scalp having a strong negative effect on ARs in the entire body of an alive human being.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Btw, if you read both studies, the effect on AR downregulation from minoxidil is from TOPICAL administration at equivalent 5% doses with 84% AR reduction after 8 hours. That's a fucking insane effect on T and DHT utilization and will have significant hormonal effects.

                Lets say that a 5% solution applied to the scalp caused a 84% AR reduction locally in the scalp tissue.
                Lets say the scalp skin represents 1% of the mass of human body tissues.
                Lets say that all the minoxidil absorbed systemically.
                This would mean that the 5% solution would become diluted and spread out over the rest of the 99% of the human body.
                The 5% solution would become equivalent a 0.05% solution systemically.
                How much would a 0.05% concentration of minoxidil affect AR function.
                0.05% is 100 fold less than 5%
                Assuming a linear effect, the 85% AR reduction from scalp minoxidil would become a 0.85% AR reduction over the entire body, that is less that 1%. The HTPA should be able to easily compensation for the 0.85% reduction in AR function by slightly increasing testosterone.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          But doesn't test need the AR's to actually be utilized? What good is having a ton of test if the test can't bind to the receptor site?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >But doesn't test need the AR's to actually be utilized?
            Yes

            >What good is having a ton of test if the test can't bind to the receptor site?
            Who are you referring to?

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25842469/
    Rosemary oil is essentially exactly as effective as minoxidil without any of the pharmacuck side effects.

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Theoretically ketoconazole shampoo has the same effect as minoxidil but with far less sides (though it's only usually used to treat FPB)
    doi org slash 10.1186 slash s41702 dash 019 dash 0046 dash y

  10. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    ive been on fin and min for a year and havent noticed anything yet. still have sex with gf everytime i see her. still jerk off 2-3 times a day. still PRing at a lower bodyweight.

    and best of all

    still getting mires

  11. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Can someone tell me if the effect is topical or systemic, and to what magnitude of effect

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