I keep getting shoulder impingment, and was thinking about asking Dr for pic rel.
Has anyone had this procedure? Did it work well?
I have switched from BB bench to slight incline DB, am careful to keep scapula pinned and shoulders externally rotated, never pour the pitcher, do facepulls or band pull aparts every workout, and can just about row what I bench.
I thought I had finally figured it up but I was wrong.
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Do the DB variation with a neutral grip and it should clear up by itself within a few weeks. Used to have the same thing.
Also, stop flaring your elbows when you do conventional.
try passive deadhangs before doing surgery, read the book: shoulder pain the solution and prevention fourth edition by john m. kirsch
I will try this, thank you.
I have been doing them at 45° but will try that.
Go ahead and pay some israelite doctor thousands to stab your shoulder with needles in the hope of somehow making it better
No moron. Shoulder impingement due to poor biomechanics is not a cause for surgery.
I don't think weightlifting exercises cure impingement. You need to focus on range-of-motion, not resistance. I've had the same problem and yoga is the only exercise that helps mitigate the issue. You need to train your body to recruit underused/weak muscles to stabilize & free up your shoulder so its not stuck in one position. Doing resistance will make the muscles tighter and worsen the problem
>I have switched from BB bench to slight incline DB
You thought this would fix it? Lmao, stick to barbell.
Add more rows, pullups, skip over head pressing for a little while.
> and can just about row
At what angle? I bet you're one of those dummies barely leaning over for bent over rows mostly shrugging instead of rowing.
jesus dude.
save yourself some time, look up a reputable physical therapist in your area, and just walk in. does not require a referral.
Almost all injuries are over-use related. You're progressing too quickly and not allowing the structures in your subacromial space to adapt to the increased demands.
How does it feel if you dont focus on pinning the scapulae back? Moving the humerus without a fixed scapula may leave more room in the SA space
Statistically that procedure does nothing to improve shoulder impingement than placebo surgeries
also imagine getting a surgery and like 6 months later they tell you they didn't actually do anything it was just a placebo for a study lmao.
>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29169668/
Also there is a non-zero chance shoulder impingement doesn't actually exist altogether, or is incredibly rare, hence why that surgery doesn't do anything. I'm not saying you don't have shoulder or tendon pain, I'm saying you are, its just being caused by something else. Something like 95% of rotator cuff tears are on the underside in very close proximity to the arm bone, not on the topside, a small distance in where the tendon would be getting pinched. Also acromial space width, which varies between people depending by their frame, also does not correlate with if 'impingement' occurs. That's just speculation, though I think there is a good chance impingement isn't your problem regardless if it exists or not.
Op I would consider
Tendons, just like muscles sustain damage when you work out even with perfect form, and they have to recover just as much to adapt. The damage slowly builds up when they don't recover properly and then they get hurt. Eat, sleep and deload when you need to, to make sure your recovery is on point in general, not just for your shoulder problem.
Also do exercises that don't bother your shoulders, or adjusting the form until so that it doesn't. I can't tell you how to do that because everybody's joints, structurally, are different. Its just something you have to experiment with, trial and error.
Epub 2019 Jan 15.
Subacromial decompression surgery for adults with shoulder pain: a systematic review with meta-analysis
>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30647053/
>There was high certainty evidence of no additional benefit of subacromial decompression surgery over placebo surgery in reducing pain at 1 year following surgery
Try a supinated grip with your dumbbell bench
Weight lifting will not fix impingement.
Impingement can be caused not just by muscle imbalances, but by tendon imbalances.
Lax or taut tendons can shift your shoulder position into impingement during movements.
For this reason most people have to stop lifting entirely with shoulder issues.
Namely because getting back to base with your shoulder position is by far the most important thing for the healing process.
So instead of potentially making it worse with any general shoulder exercise.
You do shoulder resets and focus only on mobility.
Over the months of rest your tendons will begin to taut to the proper position while maintaining mobility on the ones that matter.
this is fricking moronic
and that's why you keep having impingement, because you're so fricking stupid you can't understand that tendon laxity is the number one cause of chronic impingement.
If you're unable to hold your shoulder in its proper position without thinking, your tendons are too lax.
I dont have shoulder impingement, and i am a physiotherapist. Please show me the studies showing a correlation with "tendon laxity" and shoulder pain.
ALL shoulders impinge, its just what they do. People with pain have sensitised tissues in the subacromial space, which causes NORMAL impingement to be painful.
>physiotherapist
You can just say you're gay bro, we all know.
youre the moron if you think all exercise should involve resistance and "gains" is more important than proper body mehanics, IST is fricking full of these insecure Johnny Bravo homosexuals
see
The baseless claim that impingement is caused by "tendon laxity" is the moronic thing.
There's absolutely no data to back that up. Even if there was, what makes avoiding resistance training the thing to reduce laxity?
>do a PHD.
Why would I do that when I know what works.
See
But also, shoulders are one structure on the body with some good research showing that surgery is a viable option compared to exercise rehab. I personally would avoid it but each to their own.
If it's
>normal impingement
just ignore the pain? If it's not your body telling you something is wrong just
I think it's a moronic way of explaining that your body is over adapted to pushing and pressing and under adapted to pulling and rowing. This and having a narrow rom. This isn't caused by the exercise itself but the increased lopsided tension on your joints when you are at rest.
>just ignore the pain?
Nope, youre right in that its a signal from your body that something is up.
In practice impingement is no longer really a diagnosis, because as I said, theres always a level of impingement as you abduct the humerus. Pain vs no pain is determined by how sensitive those tissues are. Why would taking away the exposure to stimulus (i.e stop resistance training altogether) help reduce that sensitivity?
If anything his shoulders are under adapted to the types of loads he is attempting with certain movements. I think you're overcomplicating how simple rehab can be for injuries like this.
We also dont know if he has reduced ROM, very well might have weakness in the muscles that upwardly rotate the scapula or muscle tightness that prevents this. But I didnt dispute any of that, I just disputed the claim about "tendon laxity"
>Increased lopsided tension on your joints when you are at rest.
If theres increased tension on his joints at rest why does he only get pain when flat benching and not at rest?
Sure bud
>Sure bud
rent free every day
>The baseless claim that impingement is caused by "tendon laxity" is the moronic thing.
>tendons determine scapula placement alongside muscle
>tendons determine bicep/tricep placement alongside muscle
>NOOOO TENDONS CAN'T CAUSE IMPINGEMENT
sorry to tell you, you're fricking moronic.
if tendon laxity exist alongside any muscle. the muscle can not in its proper position.
if this happens near a joint as complex as the shoulder, yeah you can have impingement caused by a tendon at numerous places.
Tendon laxity is the number one reason for impingement not healing as it changes shoulder kinematic.
Provide citation if this is really the hill you want to die on newbie.
Youre the one claiming tendon laxity is a thing. You provide citation. Unless theres something getting lost in translation youre making shit up.
You do know that muscles form into tendons and theyre not separate structures? how could a muscle not be in its proper position? its attached to the bony landmarks, its not going anywhere. If youre talking about things like subluxation then sure tendons can move, but its not due to laxity, and avoiding resistance training is not the answer.
Theres no evidence to show that shoulder kinematics plays a role in shoulder pain
Love you anon
>you're the one claiming tendon laxity is a thing
and you're the one trying to argue against it.
burden of proof is entirely on you.
Provide citations or frick off newbie.
Guideline for diagnosis and treatment of subacromial pain syndrome: a multidisciplinary review by the Dutch Orthopaedic Association
DOI: 10.3109/17453674.2014.920991
>Exercise therapy should be specific and should be of low intensity and high frequency, combining eccentric training, attention to relaxation and posture
Comprehensive impairment-based exercise and manual therapy intervention for patients with subacromial impingement syndrome: a case series
DOI: 10.2519/jospt.2010.3223
>A program aimed at strengthening rotator cuff and scapular muscles, with stretching and manual therapy aimed at thoracic spine and the posterior and inferior soft-tissue structures of the glenohumeral joint appeared to be successful in the majority of patients
Comparison of supervised exercise with and without manual physical therapy for patients with shoulder impingement syndrome
DOI: 10.2519/jospt.2000.30.3.126
>Manual physical therapy applied by experienced physical therapists combined with supervised exercise in a brief clinical trial is better than exercise alone for increasing strength, decreasing pain, and improving function in patients with shoulder impingement syndrome.
Exercise in the treatment of rotator cuff impingement: a systematic review and a synthesized evidence-based rehabilitation protocol
DOI: 10.1016/j.jse.2008.06.004
> the data demonstrate that exercise has statistically and clinically significant effects on pain reduction and improving function
Effect of specific exercise strategy on need for surgery in patients with subacromial impingement syndrome: randomised controlled study
10.1136/bmj.e787
>A specific exercise strategy, focusing on strengthening eccentric exercises for the rotator cuff and concentric/eccentric exercises for the scapula stabilisers, is effective in reducing pain and improving shoulder function in patients with persistent subacromial impingement syndrome
None of these mention tendon laxity
Imagine asking for advice and anecdotes then spamming
>le science
Just get the surgery you have made up your mind, get cut open, get fricked up, get addicted to pain pills, and repost this exact thread when your doctor tells you he recommends another surgery. Then tell everyone to
>never bench bros it destroys your shoulders don't be like me
then give up on fitness and become disabled all because you didn't want to improve mobility and stop benching for 1% of your life.
because le science will always recommend you remove parts of your body because it's too hard to enforce a consistent mobility regime across a sample size large enough that le science would approve.
Also get bottom and top surgery while you are at it and go trans.
>solves your impingment and gives you huge forearms
>scapula pinned
Why? Experiment with doing pushups with with a slight shrug and retract/extend you scapula on each rep. Limiting your your ROM at the start of an exercises kinetic chain will maximise the ROM further down the chain, in your case beyond what is comfortable.
Do more rowing and pulling to stabilise your pushing and pressing, it's not rocket science.
This
If you want
>studies
do a PHD.
He has a point about ROM even though his explanation is kinda autistic. If you would rather get a surgery that can potentially frick you up for life over taking ROM seriously for a several months then he is right about you being a homosexual though and you should just accept the fact that unnecessary surgeries like this are designed for morons like you who would rather go under the knife than stop maxing out presses for 6 months.
> BB bench to slight incline DB
If this is the only accommodation you make before considering surgery YNGMI
How do I program these? I'm in a similar situation to OP except in my case I only feel impingement with horizontal presses when my elbow dips below my body. Pushups, flat bench, and CG bench are all out for me. Incline bench is slightly uncomfortable but not painful, OHP & floor press feel fine, and I have zero discomfort on dips.
I think I have shoulder impingement that was caused by dead hangs. What specifically might have caused it is that I made the mistake of doing a reverse shrug motion while doing them. I don't think any other lifts caused it because the pain started during a deload week. Now 5 weeks later the pain still hasn't gone away.
what exercises have u been doing for physical rehab OP?
yall need to see a physical therapist or try this shit at home before u start talking about surgery baka.
up to 50% of patients have persistent nerve pain after surgery. Shoulder arthroscopy puts your brachial plexus at risk of injury, this means that you could wake up without use of your arm permanently.
I would highly recommend to do everything possible to prevent joint surgery for the shoulder.