Why do you guys post this?

When a quick Google search provides scientifically proven results that doing heavy weight witu low rep vs. moderate weight with higher rep provide nearly identical hypertrophy results?

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  1. 1 year ago
    Krager

    because the bait posters on this board don't even lift
    same as every other board

  2. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    if you eat a shit ton of food you’re gonna get fat and look like shit

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      frick you

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        found the lard ass

  3. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    HIGH WEIGHT TILL FAILURE

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      10 sets of 3 @ 88%

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      I was about to post a shitty reply about the black king killing the queen and then chaining a zandatsu to take apart the white king in one move but then I got the joke

  4. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >5×10

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Based

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/zwtqRuY.jpg

        >5×10

        Isn’t that just endurance training?

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Hope you're trolling otherwise you know shit about lifting.

          5-10, double progression is the most based rep range for compounds.
          Comfy and gets you swole with tons of technical practice in all main lifts and variations, and doesn't take long to translate into 1-5 rep range strength so you can LARP as a powerlifter after a few weeks any time you want.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Are you me?
            Though I use other rep ranges sometimes 5-10 is my go-to on compounds, I think it's the one I use the most on them.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              I don't exclusively do it either, but it's my bread and butter. 8-15 on isolations.
              I like running 5-10 on main barbell compounds and variations, then doing a strength progression in one of the main lifts at a time. Like now I am doing a typical % based bench routine (which includes 1-12 rep ranges) and doing 5-10 in everything else.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >8-15 on isolations.
                Same for me actually, I go as low as 5 on some isos with a lot of ROM (powell raises for example), and as high as 20 (lu raises for example) but that range is where most of them fall.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      literally 531 BBB

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Hope you're trolling otherwise you know shit about lifting.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        5x10 is the same thing as 5x5

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Indeed you know shit about lifting.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            I know that you're a dyel. You're not fooling anyone.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Don't even post your body, no one deserves to see that nasty shit.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >uhm ackshually in order to recieve *wipes nose* maximum muscle gain you have to......

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Imagine not doing 5x10, do you go to the gym to take it easy?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >fewer lifts will make you bigger
        sure pal

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        I can already tell you're obese.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Based

      I tracked all the workouts I did since 2021 and this was at my peak autistic phase when a girl rejected me so I lifted away the pain.
      I did 10+ sets every time I worked out, I got some mad lats and delts though.

      22feb:
      Pullups:
      5x
      5x
      8x 20Kg
      10x 20Kg
      12x 20Kg
      8x 20Kg
      10x
      10x
      10x
      12x
      10x
      5x

      24feb:
      Side raises:
      25x 5Kg
      25x 5Kg
      10x 14Kg
      13x 14Kg
      12x 14Kg
      10x 14Kg
      12x 12Kg
      15x 12Kg
      15x 5Kg
      10x 5Kg

      Fat side raises:
      15x 10Kg

      Bench press:
      20x 36Kg
      15x 50Kg

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      5x1

  5. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    because people here don't actually care about results or helping each other
    they just pick a side and blindly fight the "other side" because they've got nothing else better to do

    also most people are legitimately incapable of seeing through all the bullshit and realising that simply taking your muscles close to or up to failure is what matters regardless or rep range

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      this is the most accurate description of IST I have ever heard.

  6. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >10x3

  7. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Because it's not about hypertrophy, it's about cardio.
    Doing 3 sets of 10 reps with small rest periods will keep your heartrate up constantly for that whole time, whereas doing 5x5 might get your heartrate up during the set but not for as long.
    In other words, 3x10 = cardio = burning fat = being lean and good looking, 5x5 = only strength training = staying fat = being fat
    captcha: 0N MAN

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      your heartrate stays up for like 3-4 minutes after heavy sets of 5 near failure

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Then explain why powersharters are fat and ugly compared to the average recreational gymgoer

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Because they stuff their faces, you moron

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          because powerlifters in the higher weight classes just want to get as big as possible to lift as much as possible regardless of body composition lol

          you don't seriously believe that doing 5x5 will make you fatter or uglier ,do you?

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >you don't seriously believe that doing 5x5 will make you fatter or uglier ,do you?
            Ask literally anyone that looks good what kind of training they'll do and they'll either say they do a bodybuilding routine (which would be sets of 3 or 4x8-10 for most exercises) or they'll say they don't lift weights and do something like surfing or rock climbing.
            You don't have to be Einstein to put 2 and 2 together.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              That's not true. I know alot of guys who look good who powerlift but stay lean. Your theory is off

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Picrel is a powerlifter
              >inb4 not natty
              Maybe, but he looks way less impressive in videos. Everyone filters and edits their instagram photos.
              Uoure just a dumb zoomer

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >he looks way less impressive in videos
                You think? He opened his garage door just enough to let in light to optimally show his muscles in this photo kek

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              This is a stupid meme. You don't have to look far to find innumerable counterexamples.
              What you do have to look far for are guys who are weak but look strong. And the reason you want to do 8x12 tricep kickbacks is so you don't have to lift heavy.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Recommend bodybuilding routine?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                1. Arnold split
                2. Bro split

                i do the arnold split but without legs (chest&back, shoulders, arms, repeat)

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              the only people who look good at my gym do heavy 5s and 3s on compounds, with some accessory work afterward. meanwhile every single person who has been lifting for 1+ year and still looks like they don't lift does brosplits

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Any champion powerlifter in a weightclass below Shw looks great, just look at someone like Dan green for example.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          powerlifters who stick to a weight class have solid physiques.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      I seriously hope this is bait
      You lift weights to get strong, not for cardio
      Doing a small amount of cardio while lifting is not going to burn your fat off

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >weak heart
        >calls himself strong

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      3x10 for cardio is moronic as frick you stupid Black person

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Why does bro science keep getting more moronic every year?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Satan always doubles down on his deceptions

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >everything i dont like is cardio
      Seethe, cope & dilate, fatty

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Hahaha 7/10

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >implying you lose weight by working out
      >monkey brained broscience explanation
      Neverfat or permafat detected. No amount of weightlifting will burn enough calories or provide enough cardio stimulus to help either of those things. You burn more calories sleeping after your workout than will during it.

  8. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Because gays here don't like to lift until failure. So they do light weight for high reps, never fatiguing the muscle. They are lazy and avoid any kind of physical stress. This is the zoomer mindset. If they did heavy sets until failure, they would have no excuse. But it would also make them feel sore, which is a big no no for zoom zooms

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >they are lazy and don't like physical stress
      >They go to the gym to lift weights and exercise
      ??????

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      i don't want injuries
      i lift as much as i can for ~8 reps

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >Because gays here don't like to lift until failure.
      Actually, IST is the only place I've seen in the last 2 decades where people seriously advocate for going to failure. It's an outdated, dangerous training method.

  9. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Because they know frick all about exercise. Most people know absolutely 0 about the topic and yet they act as a figure of authority, mindlessly parroting all the horseshit they've heard from whoever they are blindly following.

    You want to know another secret? 1 set to failure literally produces the same results as multiple sets of the same exercise. The only difference is that the more sets you do the less gains you make because you overtrain your muscle. People also exercise far too often. There is no difference between 1 or 2 times a week. Anything more than that negatively impacts your gains. Reps also don't matter all that much. Anything in the 5-35 rep range produces the same results. Under 5 and over 35 are suboptimal. Volume is a completely fricking useless moronic metric of exercise. Muscles can't count. All they know is how hard they are working and if they are strong enough to survive in their current environment. If they aren't then they grow. You can signal them to grow by going to failure ONCE. This lets them know that the demands of the environment are greater than the force they can produce

    One set to failure per muscle group per session, within 5-35 reps, taking 5 seconds up 5 seconds down and pauses at the top and bottom with a 3-5 second hold after reaching failure, once a week or less, with a 10 day training break every 6-8 weeks is both the bare minimum amount of training required and also the single most optimal and efficient way to train. If you can stick to that then you will make years worth of gains in months compared to what you would be gaining doing all the meme shit people shill to you

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >yet they act as a figure of authority, mindlessly parroting all the horseshit they've heard from whoever they are blindly following.
      You just parroted back what Mike Mentzer said almost word for word

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        The wide body of all exercise research (literally hundreds of studies) confirms that what he said is absolutely true in literally every single way. Exercise is no longer confusing. It's literally a solved problem at this point with only a few areas that need further investigation with outlying things such as stretching and the duration of gains after a single bout of exercise being looked into. Everything else is literally figured out.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          I pretty much do his HIT style workout with barbell compound lifts. Except I have to do multiple sets (drop sets) because I don't feel safe going to failure by myself with no spotter doing barbell shit.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      The wide body of all exercise research (literally hundreds of studies) confirms that what he said is absolutely true in literally every single way. Exercise is no longer confusing. It's literally a solved problem at this point with only a few areas that need further investigation with outlying things such as stretching and the duration of gains after a single bout of exercise being looked into. Everything else is literally figured out.

      I'd love to see the sources on these 'hundreds of studies' of research. Just one or two maybe, huh?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iQ-OGWrY6qvdjtSq4aEcATp1nwf743suWZR9VpwfHw0/edit?usp=sharing

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          a google doc is not a source

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >a google doc is not a source
            maybe try reading it instead of just trying to come up with a witty reply, ok?

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Read the fricking sources listed in the document you mongoloid

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Hahahahahahaha
          When will you homosexuals stop misinterpreting principles and open your eyes to fact your bullshit does not coalesce with reality

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >1 set to failure literally produces the same results as multiple sets of the same exercise. The only difference is that the more sets you do the less gains you make because you overtrain your muscle. People also exercise far too often. There is no difference between 1 or 2 times a week. Anything more than that negatively impacts your gains.
      Stupid motherfricking HIT cultist, this is the exact kind of parroted bullshit that you indict in your first paragraph

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >Stupid motherfricking HIT cultist
        Name one similarity between stripping a training program down to progression by intensity and being in a cult, I implore you.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Did you just suggest that... 1 set to failure is good enough? Once or twice a week??

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Dyels like to tell themselves this despite the fact that this training philosophy has been around 50 years and done frick all compared to volume

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          The only thing I would add to this would be that people get fixated on these unrealistic concepts of "strength/failure" training and "volume/hypertrophy" training. While it is true that volume "hypertrophy" training will grow muscles better. The problem is is that people envision that to mean bodybuilder right before a competition type of training where you're in the gym for like 4-6 hours a day doing like 5 sets of 15-30 for each fricking muscle. Whereas they view the strength training as just doing one rep max's all day every day.

          The reality is that a good "volume" layout would be the classic 3-4 sets of 8-12, with the final rep having only 1-3 reps in reserve per set or even having that last 8th or 12th rep be the one before failure with no reps in reserve. Or in other words, it's volume, but you still have a good amount of intensity happening. It's not just you doing bench press where you go to failure at like the 50th rep or some shit. The intensity is still absolutely there.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Exactly. And bodybuilders are still extremely fricking strong except just before comp when they're basically at death's door.
            Jay Cutler wasn't known for being particularly heavy with his training and still incline benched 405 for easy reps

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              are you talking about this video
              cuz this is not 405 lbs

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >this is not 405
                how much is it, then?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                yellow is 15kg and blue 10kg that makes 110kg + the bar

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                fair enough

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Yes, it absolutely is. Try it for 1 month and you'll see that it is true. You'll make gains every session until you hit your genetic limit. Returns will diminish as you get closer to the end, but it will be 100% consistent until you get there

        >1 set to failure literally produces the same results as multiple sets of the same exercise. The only difference is that the more sets you do the less gains you make because you overtrain your muscle. People also exercise far too often. There is no difference between 1 or 2 times a week. Anything more than that negatively impacts your gains.
        Stupid motherfricking HIT cultist, this is the exact kind of parroted bullshit that you indict in your first paragraph

        Cope harder volumetard

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Also
          >genetic limit
          Natty limit doesn't exist, you can't even get that right kek

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Okay bud. Just keep adding 5 lbs to your bench press every time you bench until you're benching 50000 lbs and let me know how it goes

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Based and redpilled. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him produce intensity.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Completely and utterly moronic. How about I do multiple sets to failure instead of just one so that I can get more stimulus?
      >y-you'll overtrain!
      My squat is progressing well despite the fact that I'm cutting, overtraining is a fricking meme. Very few people actually do so much training that they end up with overtraining syndrome, the real problem is that most people don't train hard enough. This includes HIT shitters, since 1 set to failure is laughably easy compared to doing 10+ sets to all-out failure in a single workout.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Anything more than is absolutely necessary is overtraining. The amount necessary is 1 set. Anything beyond that limits gains for each set that you do. That's a basic physiological fact. Just because you're making gains doesn't mean that you couldn't be making gains even faster if you didn't do those

        >Muscle Damage is counterproductive, Meta Analysis of 111 studies
        https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339360274_A_Systematic_Review_with_Meta-Analysis_of_the_Effect_of_Resistance_Training_on_Whole-Body_Muscle_Growth_in_Healthy_Adult_Males -
        “the only single variable that moderates inversely the gains in hypertrophy is the number of sets per workout, showing that an excess of sets per workouts affects negatively the amount of muscle growth.”

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          have you included this in that google doc?

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah it's in there. I copy and pasted it straight from the, "Mechanical Tension and Metabolic Stress, Drivers of Hypertrophy. Muscular damage is counterproductive" Section. I probably should have a section solely for the 'muscle damage is counterproductive' thing, but I don't think there's enough information to fill out a few paragraphs. It also flows well with the other topics when talking about them together

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          You have no idea what you're talking about. There's only like 3 people on all of IST who have actually done so much training they ended up with overtraining syndrome. Overtraining syndrome only occurs from absurd amounts of training (like cardio + lifting for a total of like 5-6 hours a day for months on end), so saying that anyone doing more than 1 set is "overtraining" is laughable
          >what about overreaching
          Overreaching occurs when you go beyond your MRV, and can be detected by a noticeable strength loss that is greater than a typical strength fluctuation. Obviously your MRV is much higher than 1 set so this isn't true either.
          >Just because you're making gains doesn't mean that you couldn't be making gains even faster if you didn't do those
          Complete and utter bullshit. I can take one look at my body and instantly tell that all of my best musclegroups are the ones that I funneled more volume towards. I'm currently hamstring-dominant because I've been redlining my hamstrings for the past year, meanwhile I kept skipping glute work out of laziness so I've ended up with proportionally larger and stronger hamstrings. My upper back and lats had stopped growing/were growing very slowly, and my upper back in particular was a weak point. I started doing much more volume for both and now they're growing ridiculously fast. A couple months ago I threw in 6 sets of adductor isolation, now my adductors are noticeably bigger than before. I could keep going on but you get the point.

          The final nail in the coffin to this moronic method is the fact that there are enough hypertrophy-autists out there who would have figured this out ages ago if it really was true. If dropping sets noticeable gave them more gains, they would instantly notice, and would therefore keep dropping sets until they reach 1 set per muscle group. Of course in the real world this doesn't happen, so instead hypertrophy-autists are hyperfocused on trying to find more ways to cram in more volume.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            They lack intensity, which is why volume is effective

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >they lack intensity
              Most my sets are to failure, and if not they're 1 rep from failure (ocassionally 2 but that's typically reserved for lower body compounds)

              >generally 10-20% is a good range. Meaning, if you can bench 100kg for 10 reps when you're fresh, by the end of the session you should only be able to bench 80-90kg for 10 reps due to fatigue.
              So this is why volume gays don't believe in overtraining. They lift so lackadaisical that they can put up 90% of their max afterwards. Lol.

              If you suddenly lose 20% of your strength from 1 set to failure, your work capacity is comically bad. It would take me at least 3-4 sets to failure to incur a decent amount of strength loss (varies depending on the muscle obviously)

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >If you suddenly lose 20% of your strength from 1 set to failure, your work capacity is comically bad
                No, that just means that you're pushing it hard. If you use a lot less weight and approach failure very slowly, like over the course of 60-90 seconds, you can get a lot more reps in and those last few reps will be disproportionately more difficult than all of the other reps, but because they're so light you can keep squeezing them out. If you do a set or two like that then you can easily lose 20%-60% of your strength immediately after doing them and you'll barely be able to move your muscle. You may even immediately develop DOMS

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >If you use a lot less weight and approach failure very slowly, like over the course of 60-90 seconds
                I already do this, I use slow eccentrics and pauses on most exercises. The way I do squats would make you scream (high-bar ATG, slow eccentric + pause, 1.5 reps (down and pause, up halfway, down and pause, all the way up). each rep takes like 8 seconds lol)
                >but because they're so light you can keep squeezing them out.
                Sounds like you're failing due to the pump and not because of mechanical tension. This is why you can theoretically do like 200 reps with a very light weight on say barbell curls, but you'll actually end up stopping at around rep 50 or so.
                >you can easily lose 20%-60% of your strength immediately after doing them
                No shit your strength will be acutely dropped, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about strength being gone for that session even after resting for 4-5 minutes.
                >You may even immediately develop DOMS
                Already happens, after my first set of squats I already feel major disruption and they start shaking violently when I lock out my knees. This actually gets pretty annoying on my later sets of squats because of all the shaking when I lock out each rep lol. And yet, because I'm not a pussy I still put in 4 sets instead of just 1.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                You're about the only person on fit that trains correctly.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Man, I really don't want to. I bloatmaxxed hard due to a lack of a proper diet plan and gained a frick ton of weight. I'm a fat frick right now and it's kind of embarassing. I put on 30 lbs of solid muscle (calculated), but also put on 50 lbs of fat over 4 months. The fat gain could have been avoided if I was strict about the diet, but 0% of me wants to count calories and weigh things.

                When I started I literally could not 1 rep max 135 bench. Now I can 1 rep max around 250 bench, do 11 pushups, do a dip, OHP 1 plate (couldn't do 35 lbs to start), row 103x6 with perfect form while bending over parallel to the ground all the way to the chest with no momentum (unknown strength before starting), and squat my fat ass 255 lbs frame +1pl8 barbell like 15+ times (unknown 1rm). I could also barely squat my own bodyweight at 180 when I started. Haven't checked lat pulldown yet, but I'm going to guess it's somewhere around 200 1 rep max (can't do pullup). In a few months I will be leaned out at 15% body fat and I'll maintain that as I shoot for natty limit

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >no appetite, food makes him fat
                >can almost push his max after a workout
                >bodyweight bench press
                >talks shit about HIT

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                schizo post

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                You're replying to a completely different person rofl,

                Man, I really don't want to. I bloatmaxxed hard due to a lack of a proper diet plan and gained a frick ton of weight. I'm a fat frick right now and it's kind of embarassing. I put on 30 lbs of solid muscle (calculated), but also put on 50 lbs of fat over 4 months. The fat gain could have been avoided if I was strict about the diet, but 0% of me wants to count calories and weigh things.

                When I started I literally could not 1 rep max 135 bench. Now I can 1 rep max around 250 bench, do 11 pushups, do a dip, OHP 1 plate (couldn't do 35 lbs to start), row 103x6 with perfect form while bending over parallel to the ground all the way to the chest with no momentum (unknown strength before starting), and squat my fat ass 255 lbs frame +1pl8 barbell like 15+ times (unknown 1rm). I could also barely squat my own bodyweight at 180 when I started. Haven't checked lat pulldown yet, but I'm going to guess it's somewhere around 200 1 rep max (can't do pullup). In a few months I will be leaned out at 15% body fat and I'll maintain that as I shoot for natty limit

                isn't me,

                >If you use a lot less weight and approach failure very slowly, like over the course of 60-90 seconds
                I already do this, I use slow eccentrics and pauses on most exercises. The way I do squats would make you scream (high-bar ATG, slow eccentric + pause, 1.5 reps (down and pause, up halfway, down and pause, all the way up). each rep takes like 8 seconds lol)
                >but because they're so light you can keep squeezing them out.
                Sounds like you're failing due to the pump and not because of mechanical tension. This is why you can theoretically do like 200 reps with a very light weight on say barbell curls, but you'll actually end up stopping at around rep 50 or so.
                >you can easily lose 20%-60% of your strength immediately after doing them
                No shit your strength will be acutely dropped, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about strength being gone for that session even after resting for 4-5 minutes.
                >You may even immediately develop DOMS
                Already happens, after my first set of squats I already feel major disruption and they start shaking violently when I lock out my knees. This actually gets pretty annoying on my later sets of squats because of all the shaking when I lock out each rep lol. And yet, because I'm not a pussy I still put in 4 sets instead of just 1.

                is

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                That's a compliment if I've ever seen one. Gonna get these sick quad gains

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Are you approaching negative failure too or just positive failure?
                Also, could you post body? Don't mean it as a taunt, I'm seriously trying to figure out if HIT actually works.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Replied to myself accidentally. See----->

                Man, I really don't want to. I bloatmaxxed hard due to a lack of a proper diet plan and gained a frick ton of weight. I'm a fat frick right now and it's kind of embarassing. I put on 30 lbs of solid muscle (calculated), but also put on 50 lbs of fat over 4 months. The fat gain could have been avoided if I was strict about the diet, but 0% of me wants to count calories and weigh things.

                When I started I literally could not 1 rep max 135 bench. Now I can 1 rep max around 250 bench, do 11 pushups, do a dip, OHP 1 plate (couldn't do 35 lbs to start), row 103x6 with perfect form while bending over parallel to the ground all the way to the chest with no momentum (unknown strength before starting), and squat my fat ass 255 lbs frame +1pl8 barbell like 15+ times (unknown 1rm). I could also barely squat my own bodyweight at 180 when I started. Haven't checked lat pulldown yet, but I'm going to guess it's somewhere around 200 1 rep max (can't do pullup). In a few months I will be leaned out at 15% body fat and I'll maintain that as I shoot for natty limit

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >If you suddenly lose 20% of your strength from 1 set to failure, your work capacity is comically bad. It would take me at least 3-4 sets to failure to incur a decent amount of strength loss (varies depending on the muscle obviously)
                if it takes you 3-4 sets to failure to incur a decent amount of strength loss then you have no fricking idea what going to failure actually means

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >if it takes you 3-4 sets to failure to incur a decent amount of strength loss then you have no fricking idea what going to failure actually means
                I typically lose 1-2 reps after each set when I go to failure (eg 9, 7, 6, 5 for example would be fairly realistic). Going to failure is when you cannot complete a full rep. If I'm getting fricked stapled by the bar on incline press then yes I think I've hit failure. You simply have dogshit work capacity, it's really that simple.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >You simply have dogshit work capacity
                ok mr arnold schwarzenegger
                keep being a work horse and i'll stick to my 1-3 sets per exercise

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Alright then, and I'll continue to pack on muscle while you stay small.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Alright then, and I'll continue to pack on muscle while you stay small.
                >there's only one way to get big and everyone should do the same amount of volume
                dogmatic thinking at its best

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >If I'm getting fricked stapled by the bar on incline press then yes I think I've hit failure.
                When you hit failure it's a slow grind to the lockout except you don't lock it out then it's a slow fight as it falls back to the pins. You're obviously dropping your eccentrics and you should stick to reps in reserve and multiple sets if you're pulling that shit.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >You're obviously dropping your eccentrics
                You clearly haven't read any of my previous posts. I use an autistic amount of control on my eccentrics, as well as pausing at the chest without letting the bar actually sink into my body (which would take tension away from my pecs)
                >When you hit failure it's a slow grind to the lockout
                This is what happens typically, but sometimes I miscalculate how much strength I have left so instead I end up pushing as hard as I can for 5 seconds while the bar hovers like two inches above my chest until I have to let it drop back down.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          In reality to properly stimulate the muscle, the muscular endurance must be challenged by damaging the baseline. People will argue over how much or how little you need to, but generally 10-20% is a good range. Meaning, if you can bench 100kg for 10 reps when you're fresh, by the end of the session you should only be able to bench 80-90kg for 10 reps due to fatigue. Remember, local fatigue and stimulus are the exact same thing, so saying that "each set beyond the first set is useless" is laughable because while yes you're generating more local fatigue, you're also generating more stimulus, since they're literally the exact same thing. You simply need to do enough to damage the baseline by 10-20%, then you're done on that musclegroup. You rest 48-96 hours depending on the frequency you've set the muscle to be at, then you come back and hit it again. Simple as.

          Okay bud. Just keep adding 5 lbs to your bench press every time you bench until you're benching 50000 lbs and let me know how it goes

          Strawman, nobody is saying you can linear-progress forever. But you can still make good progress even after 10-15+ years of training with no long breaks (very few people even get to this point anyway lol so even if the natty limit exists no one is even remotely close to it).
          >b-but you'll reach an asymptote!
          You mean a plateau that can be fixed with better programming and improving your outside of training variables (sleep diet etc)? There are many cases out there of lifters who were already huge who had already spent 8-12+ years training, who ended up making great gains after improving their training variables.

          The vast majority of people who believe they've hit their natty limit (remember, there's quite a few people who believe that they hit their natty limit after 2 years of training) in reality are simply plateaued due to poor training practices, and they can break the plateau by improving their training. And even then, if your gains slow down to just a pound of muscle a year, that builds up over time. In 10 years that's 10 pounds of muscle, which is ton if you're already very big.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >generally 10-20% is a good range. Meaning, if you can bench 100kg for 10 reps when you're fresh, by the end of the session you should only be able to bench 80-90kg for 10 reps due to fatigue.
            So this is why volume gays don't believe in overtraining. They lift so lackadaisical that they can put up 90% of their max afterwards. Lol.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            You have no idea what you're talking about. There's only like 3 people on all of IST who have actually done so much training they ended up with overtraining syndrome. Overtraining syndrome only occurs from absurd amounts of training (like cardio + lifting for a total of like 5-6 hours a day for months on end), so saying that anyone doing more than 1 set is "overtraining" is laughable
            >what about overreaching
            Overreaching occurs when you go beyond your MRV, and can be detected by a noticeable strength loss that is greater than a typical strength fluctuation. Obviously your MRV is much higher than 1 set so this isn't true either.
            >Just because you're making gains doesn't mean that you couldn't be making gains even faster if you didn't do those
            Complete and utter bullshit. I can take one look at my body and instantly tell that all of my best musclegroups are the ones that I funneled more volume towards. I'm currently hamstring-dominant because I've been redlining my hamstrings for the past year, meanwhile I kept skipping glute work out of laziness so I've ended up with proportionally larger and stronger hamstrings. My upper back and lats had stopped growing/were growing very slowly, and my upper back in particular was a weak point. I started doing much more volume for both and now they're growing ridiculously fast. A couple months ago I threw in 6 sets of adductor isolation, now my adductors are noticeably bigger than before. I could keep going on but you get the point.

            The final nail in the coffin to this moronic method is the fact that there are enough hypertrophy-autists out there who would have figured this out ages ago if it really was true. If dropping sets noticeable gave them more gains, they would instantly notice, and would therefore keep dropping sets until they reach 1 set per muscle group. Of course in the real world this doesn't happen, so instead hypertrophy-autists are hyperfocused on trying to find more ways to cram in more volume.

            Man, I really don't want to. I bloatmaxxed hard due to a lack of a proper diet plan and gained a frick ton of weight. I'm a fat frick right now and it's kind of embarassing. I put on 30 lbs of solid muscle (calculated), but also put on 50 lbs of fat over 4 months. The fat gain could have been avoided if I was strict about the diet, but 0% of me wants to count calories and weigh things.

            When I started I literally could not 1 rep max 135 bench. Now I can 1 rep max around 250 bench, do 11 pushups, do a dip, OHP 1 plate (couldn't do 35 lbs to start), row 103x6 with perfect form while bending over parallel to the ground all the way to the chest with no momentum (unknown strength before starting), and squat my fat ass 255 lbs frame +1pl8 barbell like 15+ times (unknown 1rm). I could also barely squat my own bodyweight at 180 when I started. Haven't checked lat pulldown yet, but I'm going to guess it's somewhere around 200 1 rep max (can't do pullup). In a few months I will be leaned out at 15% body fat and I'll maintain that as I shoot for natty limit

            You seem like most smartasses ITT, redpill me on training to failure.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Third post isn't me but I digress. Training to failure is good in the sense that there is no ambiguity like with RIR, you know that you've given it your all. That being said training to failure does generate a lot of fatigue so doing it all the time on highly fatiguing movements (squats, deadlifts, etc) may not be the best idea, so in that case you should probably use RIR. Isolations however produce very little systemic fatigue so I think that they should be taken to failure or beyond with intensity techniques.

              >Alright then, and I'll continue to pack on muscle while you stay small.
              >there's only one way to get big and everyone should do the same amount of volume
              dogmatic thinking at its best

              Obviously there is variance between how much volume people should do but I think that the idea that people need wildly different amounts of volume is overstated. Yes some people can make great gains with very low amounts of volume, but this is a much smaller portion of the population. HITgays have it so low to the point where only like 1 in 10,000 people would actually make great gains

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Obviously there is variance between how much volume people should do but I think that the idea that people need wildly different amounts of volume is overstated.
                obviously. but the difference between a natty like me and a roider like you is obviously going to be enormous.

                >inb4 i'm not a roider
                anyone who claims to do 4 sets of heavy paused squats going to failure on each one of them is either roiding or lying about weight/pause/failure.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >obviously. but the difference between a natty like me and a roider like you is obviously going to be enormous.
                I'm natty? The frick are you talking about lol
                >anyone who claims to do 4 sets of heavy paused squats going to failure on each one of them is either roiding or lying about weight/pause/failure.
                Again, you have shit work capacity. Stop projecting your deficiencies onto others.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                post body, then. let's see what so much hard work has gotten you. i'm not the one claiming I am their knees "start shaking violently" after their first set and yet somehow still crank out another 3 sets every single workout because I'm just that much of a grinder.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                pic
                >post body, then.
                You're the one shilling HIT in this thread, tf?
                >i'm not the one claiming I am their knees "start shaking violently" after their first set and yet somehow still crank out another 3 sets every single workout because I'm just that much of a grinder.
                Yes because guess what, I lose reps on my subsequent sets due to fatigue. I never claimed that I could do the same reps on every set, because that would be ludicrous.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >You're the one shilling HIT in this thread, tf?
                there's multiple people in this thread. i never shilled HIT, i just called out on your bullshit about hitting failure for multiple sets at the same weight in the same exercise

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >i just called out on your bullshit about hitting failure for multiple sets at the same weight in the same exercise
                Same weight yes, same reps no. It is entirely possible to hit failure as many times as you want on an exercise, you'd simply need to drop reps (and eventually weight) due to accumulation of fatigue. And of course after a certain point you're wasting your time as you're doing more than you can recover from.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Also it's not like I'm only losing a rep or two in total, on my last set I get only like 50-60% of the reps that I did on the first set. Very significant drop in strength

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Also it's not like I'm only losing a rep or two in total, on my last set I get only like 50-60% of the reps that I did on the first set. Very significant drop in strength

                if i go to failure on my first set i can never crank out more than 60% of the reps on the _second_ set. But then again I keep my reps fairly low. Failing at 12 is different from failing at 8, obviously

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                https://i.imgur.com/5ZAxjkO.png

                >

                meant to reply to this post as well frick

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Third post isn't me but I digress. Training to failure is good in the sense that there is no ambiguity like with RIR, you know that you've given it your all. That being said training to failure does generate a lot of fatigue so doing it all the time on highly fatiguing movements (squats, deadlifts, etc) may not be the best idea, so in that case you should probably use RIR. Isolations however produce very little systemic fatigue so I think that they should be taken to failure or beyond with intensity techniques.
              [...]
              Obviously there is variance between how much volume people should do but I think that the idea that people need wildly different amounts of volume is overstated. Yes some people can make great gains with very low amounts of volume, but this is a much smaller portion of the population. HITgays have it so low to the point where only like 1 in 10,000 people would actually make great gains

              >Training to failure is good in the sense that there is no ambiguity like with RIR
              100% this. The only thing that is needed to grow a muscle is to stimulate it, feed it, rest it, and let it recover and then subsequently pack on more muscle. That's the basic formula for muscle growth.

              The thing nobody gets right is the stimulus portion. You have to place a demand on the body that it is not currently equipped to handle or otherwise it would have no reason to grow. Therefore you have to exercise it. Volume training does work, but the issue is ambiguity. When do you stop? The answer is when the muscle is properly stimulated. But when do you know if the muscle is stimulated? The answer is when you have placed a demand on it such that it is not able to overcome it and it reasonably believes that it needs to grow in order to keep its host organism alive (I know I'm anthropomorphizing muscle, but still), which would ultimately place failure as the single most meaningful stimulus you can relate to the muscle.

              Using RIR, RPE, multiple sets etc does not make sense because muscles can't count and also this tends to lead to overtraining. Do you know exactly when you have properly stimulated your muscle to grow within your 3-10 sets? On which rep does the signal get sent? Nobody knows. It's ambiguous. Nobody can know if they're at RPE 5 or 7. The only thing you can know for a fact is RPE 0 and 10. Everything else is theoretical. If you go to failure though, the answer is very clear. You get the stimulus when you hit failure. No more and no less is needed. Exactly at failure in a single set is when you have properly exercised. The only thing about training like this though is that it puts enormous fatigue on your system (that's the point), so you have to exercise far less than volumegays. It's useful in that it is clear on how to do it. It's not going to magically make you put on a shit ton of muscle. That is purely genetic. Also it's based on recovery

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >When do you stop?
                Using data from previous sessions you can determine how many sets you need to do to accrue sufficient stimulus (as well as local fatigue, since the two are the same thing) where you will recover enough before your next session. You do not necessarily need to be fully recovered as you may intend to enter that session slightly fatigued, however in most cases people will opt for this to be the point where the muscle is back at full strength.
                >Nobody can know if they're at RPE 5 or 7.
                Wrong. Novices aren't very good at this but advanced lifters can be extremely good at knowing what their RPE is, typically with a very small margin of error.
                >You get the stimulus when you hit failure. No more and no less is needed.
                Wrong. The baseline must be sufficiently damaged (aka the muscle has lost a sufficient amount of strength) to optimally stimulate the muscle. One set, no matter how intense (even taken to eccentric failure) is typically not enough for this to occur unless you're using a higher frequency (3x or more a week perhaps) since you're damaging the baseline less but with more frequency, instead of more but with less frequency. The muscle must lose strength within the session that cannot be recovered within the session, no matter how long you rest (be it 5 minutes or hours)
                To put it simply, the muscle will adapt as a reaction to it losing the ability to output force due to fatigue.
                >The only thing about training like this though is that it puts enormous fatigue on your system
                Not really (unless you're talking about deadlifts for example), one set to failure does not represent a large amount of fatigue on its own. Multiple sets to failure does however.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >You do not necessarily need to be fully recovered
                There's no reason to ever exercise if you're not fully recovered. That's counterproductive and antithetical to exercising.

                >The baseline must be sufficiently damaged
                That's not true at all. Muscle damage is not what stimulates muscle growth. Mechanical tension and metabolic stress is what triggers muscle growth. The mechanical tension is detected by various different kinds of mechanosensors present within the body that sense the strain that the muscle is exerting. The metabolic stress creates biological environment in which muscle growth is encouraged through the chemistry. Muscle damage is a complete and total net negative to muscle building efforts entirely. If muscle damage is what caused muscle growth, then you could just exercise forever continually damaging the muscles until they were destroyed. We know for a fact that the only single thing in an exercise session itself that lowers the amount of muscle gained is the amount of sets that are performed, with more sets equaling less growth across the board

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >There's no reason to ever exercise if you're not fully recovered. That's counterproductive and antithetical to exercising.
                It is not necessary at all to wait until you're fully recovered. I train lats on two back-to-back sessions, the first one being 4 sets of weighted chinups, and the next session being 3 sets of front lever pulls and 3 sets of ez-bar pullovers. My lats are growing just fine.
                >Mechanical tension and metabolic stress is what triggers muscle growth.
                Only mechanical tension. Metabolic stress and muscle damage play very small roles (As for metabolic stress, you can get an absurd burn and pump using bands, far more than you can with weights. But bands are dogshit for growth as we all know. This is proof enough for me, even ignoring the literature showing that metabolic stress isn't particularly important) Damaging the baseline is proof that you have accumulated enough high quality sets (hint: high quality sets involve large amounts of mechanical tension being imposed on the muscle).
                >The mechanical tension is detected by various different kinds of mechanosensors present within the body that sense the strain that the muscle is exerting.
                If your idea that the muscle needs to be taken to failure once and then you're done, via mechanical tension, then why don't we all do RPE 10 1 rep maxes? That's the most mechanical tension you can possibly have, an all-out grinder 1RM. Of course we know that 1RMs are garbage for growth, and are only good for peaking your strength.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >If your idea that the muscle needs to be taken to failure once and then you're done, via mechanical tension, then why don't we all do RPE 10 1 rep maxes?
                It doesn't cause a lot of metabolic stress. Ideally you need mechanical tension and metabolic stress. Metabolic stress does play a key role in growth though. There's a lot of good evidence that metabolic stress is very important in muscle building efforts. I don't really want to get into it. If you want to check out why we know this, go look at the google doc and look for the section that talks about it.

                It's a lot of typing and getting into shit I don't want to so I won't post it here. Lifting below 5 reps gets the tension part but not the metabolic part is essentially why it's suboptimal. It also lacks taking your muscle through a full range of motion to hit all of the moving parts (actin and myosin bridging) sufficiently in a single rep. You also lack the potential for loaded stretch with a really heavy single rep. You can still grow, even with 0 reps by doing timed static contractions, but for the same reasons, they are suboptimal for growth although they do work.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >There's a lot of good evidence that metabolic stress is very important in muscle building efforts.
                If it was then bands would be very good for growth, but this isn't the case. And as far as I know the literature points to mechanical tension being responsible for 90-95% of growth, with muscle damage, metabolic stress, and other factors making up the remainder.

                Other stuff is true though, stretch-mediated hypertrophy is very important for optimal growth.

                Also I would like to mention that I do a form of "pseudo-HIT" for my gastrocs; I currently do just one set for them all the way to eccentric failure. But even then, I still train them three times a week, instead of once every 7-10 days which is what HIT typically prescribes. And soon I will likely start adding sets, until I'm up to 2 sets three times per week, as I've found that my gastrocs are gaining the ability to recover faster, thereby allowing them to take more volume. This is one of the reasons why I dislike HIT, even with intensity cranked to the maximum I can still do much more volume and frequency than what HIT prescribes.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Idk man, with how much you can do you might just be some kind of genetic outlier. Calves are also one of the only groups of muscles that benefit from drastically more volume than everything else, since they are almost entirely slow twitch/type1 fibers.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                I think it's more that we can take much more local fatigue than we are led to believe, because most people are bogged down by systemic fatigue due to their training practices. I for the most part use lifts with extremely disadvantaged leverages (emphasizing weighted stretch typically) and tempos so that I can lift the least weight possible (since absolute load is an independent fatigue factor), which maximizes local fatigue (and stimulus since they're the same thing) while minimizing systemic fatigue. I may be slightly biased towards volume genetically, but I don't think I'm an outlier.

                As for calves I think they're actually fairly typical in terms of volume. The problem is that 1. People bounce out of the bottom using their achilles tendon, which takes tension off of the calves. I pause at the bottom of each rep for 3 seconds, and for 10 seconds after the last rep. And 2. People cut off their ROM. Weighted stretch is extremely important for calves. At the bottom of each rep I make sure my knee is locked while trying to pull myself even deeper with my tibialis anterior. After I started doing this I started getting DOMS, meanwhile beforehand I never got calf DOMS unless I did insane amounts of volume (literally hundreds and hundreds of reps lmao, not very time efficient at all)

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          This conclusion is weird... I've seen studies that concluded exactly the opposite: that the more sets you do a week, the more gains. I don't know what to believe anymore, this is bullshit!

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Unless you have like 50 high-quality studies that are all in agreement you can't really get much out of the literature tbh, most of the stuff in there is contradictory.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            just lift

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      People don't work out just to get big. Exhaustive excersise is a funnel for suffering and 'bad energy.' Sublimation/burning negativity. Getting big is even somewhat incidental: part of what makes it desirable is precisely that it costs so much time, food, and most of all, pain, to achieve it.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      so you should have no problem posting body? 1 set to failure 1 or 2 times a week fricking LMAO

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      arguments so moronic there's no point in arguing. Post body and gtfo

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      This man, who is very clearly not natty, died at 49 from heart failure

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >People also exercise far too often. There is no difference between 1 or 2 times a week.
      Are you people seriously lifting this little? No meme just genuinely curious

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah. Over the past 4 months I trained for 20 hours total and did like 13 sets per body part over the course of 4 months. Increased bench by over 120 lbs. My math might be fricked up, but I only exercise once every 7-10 days, just depending on if I skip days or not. I made sure to hit everything though. I also threw in a 10 day training break every 6-8 weeks to resensitize the body to phosphorylation of P70S6K. You really don't need that much at all to grow. Just smash a muscle into the dirt and let it rest and grow. You can experience gains from a single bout of exercise for up to 20 days as far as we know. It takes 21 days for muscle to begin to atrophy. So long as you exercise at least once during that 3 week period, you won't get smaller and you'll milk all the gains from a single session that you can.
        >pic rel is what i did/am currently doing

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          just post your body already, jfc

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Nah, I'll be back to dunk on all the non-believers when I'm 225 at 10% body fat with some legit sick lifts to show off. I'll be spamming the HIT stuff and posting body non stop at that point just to prove people wrong. Posting my body at this point right now would just do it a disservice though. Try HIT if you want to, or don't doesn't matter
            >pic rel, me in 5-6 months. George Hackenschmidt, natty at 220 lbs

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              I'll take this post as a concession of defeat

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >1 set to failure literally produces the same results as multiple sets of the same exercise. The only difference is that the more sets you do the less gains you make because you overtrain your muscle. People also exercise far too often. There is no difference between 1 or 2 times a week. Anything more than that negatively impacts your gains.
      Stupid motherfricking HIT cultist, this is the exact kind of parroted bullshit that you indict in your first paragraph

      Is this HIT shit like keto for body building autists?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Nah, just the most time efficient, consistent, and easy to understand way to make gains. I'd go so far as to call it the correct way to exercise. Not just a good way, the correct way

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          If it was the correct way everybody would have gotten on the HIT train decades ago, since it is much easier than other methods

          [...]

          Is this HIT shit like keto for body building autists?

          I'd say so

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Not true there are tons of reasons people won't try it, not one of them have to do with the results.

            People don't push themselves very hard (HIT is really hard for a short amount of time), they treat exercising as a social ritual, they're literally constantly shilled programs that tell them they need to do an ambiguous amount of exercise, there's a huge financial incentive for people to be in the gym or to be enamored with the fitness culture. Big Fitness would have a shitfit if HIT gained popularity. Almost everything in the fitness industry is uneducated information or flat out lies so people don't know something for themselves unless they dig into everything themselves, they attribute doing more and more and more with success because this is how they view other things in their life (more money, more girls, more cars, bigger house), there's a culture of calling people pussies unless they are working out 7 days a week twice a day grinding and everything else is not admirable, it's a lifestyle thing for a lot of people many of them would not know what to do if they didn't have the gym because they have no other interests. Those are just some of the reasons that HIT is not the most prominent style of training and likely never will be, because ultimately there are tons of outside forces at play that will pull people away from it.

            Also, from your argument:
            >if something is the best way and is beneficial to do, then people should perform it
            Then by that logic there would not be a single fat person, everyone would exercise and have a proper diet because we know that it is objectively better to not be fat and to be in shape, but people don't even take the basic steps necessary to do even that part. Likewise, people will go to the gym for years on end and never make progress, but they will still blindly follow whatever trash program they've been shilled and never stop to think rationally about what they're doing.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >People don't push themselves very hard (HIT is really hard for a short amount of time), they treat exercising as a social ritual, they're literally constantly shilled programs that tell them they need to do an ambiguous amount of exercise, there's a huge financial incentive for people to be in the gym or to be enamored with the fitness culture. Big Fitness would have a shitfit if HIT gained popularity.
              I don't care about normalgays, they're always going to be doing the latest dumb shit. I'm talking about the dudes who are mega autistic about their training and do everything they can to get an edge. Those people would have started doing HIT ages ago if it was the truth, but as far as I know they aren't doing that.
              >Likewise, people will go to the gym for years on end and never make progress, but they will still blindly follow whatever trash program they've been shilled and never stop to think rationally about what they're doing.
              Again, I don't care about what normalgays are doing because they're moronic. The giga autists are what matter, and very few (if any, I actually can't think of any off the top of my head) do HIT. I say this because I'm a giga autist myself when it comes to this, I will literally try anything (within reason ofc) that makes any amount of sense to see if it gives me better results. I've ended up with great results from doing that- I have a ghetto chest supported row setup that has been blowing up my upper back (esp thoracic erectors), I use a ghetto nordic curl setup that has gotten me to 9 full reps, I do wide grip deficit RDLs standing on top of a 12" plyo box down to pins set just high enough that I don't crush my toes, I isolate my lower traps and infraspinatus just so I can get an edge in back aesthetics, I spent ages figuring out the optimal way to do reverse curls so that I could grow my brachioradialis, I spent the better part of a year modifying my squat over and over again to make it better for growth, etc etc etc

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                If you're a giga autist then why haven't you tried this out yet and found out that it's the truth

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                so why not try HIT? have you even tried it?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                I don't think HIT is entirely useless as a concept, I already told you that I use some of its methods in my own training, namely with my gastrocs. But even then this exposed the flaws of HIT- even with maxed out intensity (true eccentric failure), I can still do 4-8x more total sets than what would typically be prescribed by HIT, because HIT underestimates the recovery capabilities of the human body.

                If you're a giga autist then why haven't you tried this out yet and found out that it's the truth

                Again, referring to my previous points- I have tried it for some parts of my body, and I have determined that it isn't the truth. I will rip it apart and utilize the useful parts for my own purposes, and I will discard the rest. Just like with everything else in my training.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                And to elaborate further, I don't 100% believe in any other system of training either. If you're knowledgable enough about this stuff you could look at my program and figure out the sources I used to learn various things about training. Then I tried out those things, and stuck with them as I found them to be useful (although not literally everything is borrowed, some things I came up with on my own, tried them out, and found them to work well).

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >I can still do 4-8x more total sets than what would typically be prescribed by HIT, because HIT underestimates the recovery capabilities of the human body
                but that's because you're fundamentally misunderstanding HIT. it doesn't say that one set is enough to completely deplete your capacity to perform more work, it merely states that one set to proper failure in a particular exercise is enough generate a stimulus for muscle growth, and that doing additional sets (even with less reps as you have stated) just causes increased damage and fatigue without amplifyng that initial stimulus for muscle growth, therefore additional sets are just making your recovery harder.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                I don't think HIT is entirely useless as a concept, I already told you that I use some of its methods in my own training, namely with my gastrocs. But even then this exposed the flaws of HIT- even with maxed out intensity (true eccentric failure), I can still do 4-8x more total sets than what would typically be prescribed by HIT, because HIT underestimates the recovery capabilities of the human body.
                [...]
                Again, referring to my previous points- I have tried it for some parts of my body, and I have determined that it isn't the truth. I will rip it apart and utilize the useful parts for my own purposes, and I will discard the rest. Just like with everything else in my training.

                just a disclaimer i'm not a full believer in HIT, i just had to correct you because you're clearly misunderstanding how HIT works. the purpose of training for _bodybuilding_ isn't doing the most amount of work possible, it's doing exactly the amount of work necessary that generates the most muscle growth possible.

                whether that means 1 set to failure (that could theoretically be two sets if you rested for 3 or 5 minutes) or 4 sets to failure is what we're arguing about.

                >1 set a week of 30 reps to failure gives you the same (or more) gains than doing 100 reps per week of your 8-12RM in any combination of reps/sets/days whatsoever
                HIT brainlets can only recover from one thought per week. the extremely low iteration loop gives you conclusions like this.

                congrats on not understanding that doing 100 reps per week generates exponentially more fatigue than 30 reps per week

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >it merely states that one set to proper failure in a particular exercise is enough generate a stimulus for muscle growth, and that doing additional sets (even with less reps as you have stated) just causes increased damage and fatigue without amplifyng that initial stimulus for muscle growth, therefore additional sets are just making your recovery harder.
                But this isn't true, since I am fully recovered from 1 set after 48 hours, instead of the much longer 7-10 days prescribed by HIT. I haven't moved up to 2 sets across all 3 sessions yet, but this will take place over the next few months. Besides this, my calves have been growing at a good pace, so whatever I am doing is working well.

                [...]
                just a disclaimer i'm not a full believer in HIT, i just had to correct you because you're clearly misunderstanding how HIT works. the purpose of training for _bodybuilding_ isn't doing the most amount of work possible, it's doing exactly the amount of work necessary that generates the most muscle growth possible.

                whether that means 1 set to failure (that could theoretically be two sets if you rested for 3 or 5 minutes) or 4 sets to failure is what we're arguing about.

                [...]
                congrats on not understanding that doing 100 reps per week generates exponentially more fatigue than 30 reps per week

                Refer to the above

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                To be more precise, the extra volume I am doing compared to HIT is currently coming purely from frequency, as I am only doing 1 set per session as of now. 3x a week vs 1x per 10 days works out to be 4x more volume, with sets equated of course. But it'll go up to 2 sets in the future as I stated previously

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                To be more precise, the extra volume I am doing compared to HIT is currently coming purely from frequency, as I am only doing 1 set per session as of now. 3x a week vs 1x per 10 days works out to be 4x more volume, with sets equated of course. But it'll go up to 2 sets in the future as I stated previously

                And also, because I'll be adding sets soon, this can work as a litmus test to see if HIT is right or if volumechads are right. If HIT is right, my calf growth will slow down, but if volumechads are right, my calf growth will speed up. We'll see what happens.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >it merely states that one set to proper failure in a particular exercise is enough generate a stimulus for muscle growth, and that doing additional sets (even with less reps as you have stated) just causes increased damage and fatigue without amplifyng that initial stimulus for muscle growth, therefore additional sets are just making your recovery harder.
                But this isn't true, since I am fully recovered from 1 set after 48 hours, instead of the much longer 7-10 days prescribed by HIT. I haven't moved up to 2 sets across all 3 sessions yet, but this will take place over the next few months. Besides this, my calves have been growing at a good pace, so whatever I am doing is working well.
                [...]
                Refer to the above

                >HIT is wrong because i can recover in less days than what is prescribed
                Mike Mentzer was wrong then, but HIT isn't wrong because the overall set of principles ( do the exact amount of work necessary and then rest as much as necessary to allow for recovery AND growht) are still being respected

                I ran SS as a beginner so I KNOW for a fact that beginners can recover and grow from a workout in 48 hours, but the HIT theory that you should increase rest as you increase the stress does make sense on the surface.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                At least we can agree on that then, since in my opinion needing 7-10 days to recover from just one set is ludicrous unless we're talking about extremely strong deadlifters (like 700+ lb).
                >overall set of principles ( do the exact amount of work necessary and then rest as much as necessary to allow for recovery AND growht) are still being respected
                Well I'll be breaking this rule soon by going up to 2 sets, and I'll see how my results change.
                >but the HIT theory that you should increase rest as you increase the stress does make sense on the surface.
                I think this is more due to systemic fatigue from compounds with advantageous leverages, but yes as a general rule the stronger you get the more fatigue you generate.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                A rather disturbing lack of bodies posted in this thread. Pic rel: me
                My 2 cents is that low volume high intensity rocks so long as you're reasonable about the volume & frequency. If HIT, instead of being this single set done once every fortnight type of thing, if it was just a regular structure, training each body part roughly twice a week, with 2 sets per exercise & a couple of exercises per body part, (3 for shoulders & back), a shitload of people would make tremendous gains off that. HIT is just way off the Overton window for intensity/volume/frequency setups which tends to work in real life. I thought the amount of volume that Mike actually used to build his size in the 1970s was a very rational blend of intensity & volume. I wish he'd centred himself more around that.

                This is a great post. This is why Mike Mentzer's stuff is still so valuable despite his prescriptions being pretty shitty. The necessary work to grow, resting until you've recovered AND grown, & the change in the body's recovery as you get more advanced.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                so, why would i switch to one set per session and fewer days per week, if i saw huge gains with ppl 6 day?

                Im literally trying to convince myself and my friends that hit works but im a living proof that i got huge with 6 day split

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >they attribute doing more and more and more with success
              Their intuition is correct. They just don't understand that more sets means more energy and that more muscle comes from the set being more difficult.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            He said "easy to understand", which it is. It's just a 5-whatever rep max with each muscle group and then all the rest days you need plus one more to be sure. Actually doing it is another story. I wish volume was more effective. I'd just put my rack in my front yard, wave at the neighbors, and rep it out all day. I actually like growing though so I have to do one ever more difficult set and then eat all day.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >I wish volume was more effective
              Other way around for me, if I could do just one set for each muscle group my training would be much easier. But of course it doesn't work that way.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                I know. It's the same old story. Volume gay wishes he could do one set because his sets are easy. Intensity gay wishes he could do multiples sets because multiple sets are easy.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Volume gay wishes he could do one set because his sets are easy.
                I already train with very high intensity, doing just one set isn't a problem. The issue is that I have to go to failure again and again and again and again, which is very mentally taxing.
                >inb4 eccentric failure is harder!!
                I already do that for calves, read some of my earlier posts in this thread. It's not that much more difficult tbh, it's overhyped IMO

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Are the guy talking about how you do 4x the volume and need a quarter of the rest days? What is your height, weight, and body fat? At this point you just do not what failure is or you're a fricking beast.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Then why isn't everyone doing it? Why is your only pro advocate a roid troony who died at like 49?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >1 set a week of 30 reps to failure gives you the same (or more) gains than doing 100 reps per week of your 8-12RM in any combination of reps/sets/days whatsoever
      HIT brainlets can only recover from one thought per week. the extremely low iteration loop gives you conclusions like this.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        brainlet

  10. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >20+ responses to this shit
    Just fricking lift, you homosexuals

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      We are resting

  11. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    3x15

  12. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    1x100

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      I thought doing gvt was autistic wtf

  13. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Some shit requires high reps, like leg extensions, ham curls, bicep curls, while some require low reps, like squats, deadlifts, chest presses, etc.
    Its not a black and white "do 5x5" vs "3x10", squats you do 6-9, leg extensions 12-18, etc.

  14. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    For me, it's every exercise 3x8, last set to failure

  15. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    People who lift are moronic anyhow. Every old guy I’ve seen who lifted ends up with saggy breasts and loose skin. Shit looks nasty. Just take the jogpill anons. Women don’t like men with a lot of muscles anyhow.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      have a nice day Black person

  16. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    If you aren't a complete beginner, 5x5 is sandbagging tier

  17. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Yes. 225x10 will be the same as 265x5. The picture is still correct though because the guy who looks better is doing less sets. Muscle is adaptation to acute stress. You get more the harder the set is. So if you can repeat it 4 times you won't look as good as if you could only repeat twice.
    And of course you could always just go to failure and never repeat any sets and mog them both.

  18. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >tfw don't count reps
    >tfw just lift until you can't lift anymore
    >sometimes count sets but not really

    Feels good man.

  19. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    4 x 20

  20. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Good morning fellow anons. I have been doing since May 2022 sets of 5 x 12. My goal is to add 5 lbs. every week and have been doing so. I only do 3 lifts before cardio, why is doing sets of 5 with higher reps discouraged?

  21. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    for me it's 4x10 + drop

  22. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Am I stupid for doing 5x5 instead of 3x10?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Yes.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      no

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >5x5 enjoyer

  23. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    IST is not for fitness advice, it's only for laughs.

  24. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    large muscles benefit from weight. reps failure should be within 6-25 for max hyprowhatver

  25. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    JUST DO BOTH

  26. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >10x3

  27. 1 year ago
    Anonymous
  28. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >scientifically proven results
    are you fricking moronic?

  29. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >70 posters arguing the optimal way to build muscle
    >0 bodies
    I genuinely hope nobody takes advice on this board seriously

  30. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >homosexual enters thread
    >mad there's nothing to fap about
    There's plenty of shirtless dudes on this board, go get em

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Dyel cope

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >no body posted
        The irony

  31. 1 year ago
    Simon

    The guy in bottom pic is 6 foot 246, and bulked over 60lbs in 6 months. If he was 220 he’d actually look great

  32. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    As long as your muscles burn after the set, you're fine.

  33. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    low reps never got med that much muscle activation. I really feel it after 8 or so
    4x8 is the best for most compounds other than diddlys

  34. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >5x12

  35. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >10x10

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      That's basically what I did back in 2021

      https://i.imgur.com/ZKnWGtM.jpg

      Based

      I tracked all the workouts I did since 2021 and this was at my peak autistic phase when a girl rejected me so I lifted away the pain.
      I did 10+ sets every time I worked out, I got some mad lats and delts though.

      22feb:
      Pullups:
      5x
      5x
      8x 20Kg
      10x 20Kg
      12x 20Kg
      8x 20Kg
      10x
      10x
      10x
      12x
      10x
      5x

      24feb:
      Side raises:
      25x 5Kg
      25x 5Kg
      10x 14Kg
      13x 14Kg
      12x 14Kg
      10x 14Kg
      12x 12Kg
      15x 12Kg
      15x 5Kg
      10x 5Kg

      Fat side raises:
      15x 10Kg

      Bench press:
      20x 36Kg
      15x 50Kg

      but it's overkill imo

  36. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    1 x Failure

  37. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    people only want HIT to work because they think it'll make them look like mentzer lol

  38. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    AMSAP x 1 @ 1rm

  39. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    To all the hit deniers.

    This is my back in 2021, doing back twice a week insane volume more than 25 hard sets per week. will post current back next

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      2022 after doing only one hardset weighted pull ups per week and one hard set machine row per week. Also did some shrugs to failure here and there and some rear delt machine. 1 set only nothing more nothing less.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/ksjoi70.jpg

      2022 after doing only one hardset weighted pull ups per week and one hard set machine row per week. Also did some shrugs to failure here and there and some rear delt machine. 1 set only nothing more nothing less.

      wow you look the exact same, i guess HIT doesn't work

  40. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    because 80% of this board is larpers who've never touched a weight

  41. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    3x12 into
    3x3or5or8

  42. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I have no clue what I'm doing so I've been doing 3 exercise per muscle group at 4 x 8 for the last year

  43. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >scientifically proven results
    Reality > studies. Bro science > science.

    This is the Aristotelian method of gaining knowledge by observation, which is far superior to modern science.

  44. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Natty bros, don't fall for the powerbuilding meme. 3x5 big lifts followed by 2-4 lower effort accessories will NOT result in much hypertrophy. This is literally how powerlifters train. A good way to spot meme powerbuilding routines is if they have any exercises consistently done below 8 reps.

    t. did meme "strength and size" routines like PPL for 5 months and while I did get a lot stronger, I still look skinny even after cutting all the fat I gained. Just do a routine where hypertrophy is the ONLY (this is important because powertards will try to scam you by pretending their routines also gain muscle.) goal for God's sake, don't get gaslit by powerlards into thinking you need a "strength base" before you start actually improving your body. For a non-specialised powerlifter, hypertrophy training will you get you stronger anyway.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Probably have shite genetics la

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      So what programs do you recommend?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        High volume bodybuilding routine. Also use steroids. But high volume assuming you still get to the point where the last few reps are tough is best

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        That's way too general of a question to answer. It depends almost entirely on you, but make sure that the routine is purely hypertrophy based ,high volume, and isn't based on squatting, deadlifting, and benching heavy (5ish reps) at the start of each day, as this is the hallmark sign of a meme powerbuilding routine.

        Probably have shite genetics la

        There's plenty more people on this very board that can also lift 1/2/3/4 after one of these routines that still look dyel as hell. Of course the powertard rebuttal is to just get even stronger but the fact of the matter is that, assuming you haven't stalled on your way past that, you'll have made a third, if any outside of fat, of the size gains a hypertrophy trainee will have made in half the time.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Ideally you would make your own but generally bodybuilding programs would use mechanically disadvantaged variations of the compound lifts (think RDLs vs conv deadlifts, medium/close grip larsen press vs wide grip big arch bench press), more focus on the lengthened position due to stretch mediated hypertrophy, more difficult tempos, more variation and less specificity (a bodybuilder might do bench press, incline db bench, weighted pushups, and dips, while a powerlifter might do bench press, close grip bench press, and 3 count pause bench) and reps being anywhere between 5 and 30 (though 20-30 isn't typically used often, 5-20 is more realistic).

        To contrast this, powerlifters will use more mechanically advantageous variations (at least for their main work), tempos that allow them to lift the most weight possible, more specificity and less variation (depends on what phase of training they're in tho), and of course during a strength/peaking phase they'll do 1-4 reps which isn't ideal for hypertrophy, but good for maximal strength.

  45. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    all i know is that i did SL5x5 for a year, and had amazing results in my lifts but barely got any muscle definition
    and after switching to PPL, my body completely changed in only 3 months, never had more "wow anon you're getting bigger" remarks before.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >and after switching to PPL
      PPL once per week or twice?

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