why does this exercise make homos and dyels seethe so much?

why does this exercise make homos and dyels seethe so much?

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  1. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    it would've make my muscles hurty >-<

  2. 2 years ago
    Anonymous
    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      post body

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous
        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          Either this isn't you, or it actually is you and it proves the other anon's point.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          I’m sincerely sorry that this is the result of your hard work anon. Better luck next life

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah it's definitely benching time for you

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          THIS homie HOLDIN THE PHONE IN HIS MOUTH? BRO WHAT THE FRICK?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Its a tripod you frickwit.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          chicken boy

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          deformed fat core

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            brutal

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          Some meaty ass obliques there son. Pretty nice physique otherwise.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >no shoulder
          >no chest either
          HAHA

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          No matter what you're doing be sure to get on the bandwagon soon my brother

        • 2 years ago
          Nice bod tho

          Stains on mirror

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      but he's correct

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      I don't want breasts either

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      from now on i shall use the term "most venerable hoists" rather than "lifts"

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      /qa/ lost

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Wait you can join someone on the bench? Have I been lonely pressing the whole time

  3. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Because people hate seeing their 1rm squat/dl going above someone else's head

  4. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Love this exercise. Was forced to hit a new PR of .5 pl8 for 5x5 today. WAGMI bros

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Your enthusiasm is based, and congratulations on your milestone. This is probably my fave lift. Almost made 1pl8 last month but a non-workout injury put gains on hold

  5. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Real talk how do I get stronger in this?
    I've been going to gym for 6 weeks now after a 2 year break.
    Can't do more than 4x10 @ JUST THE BAR.
    I'm getting stronger at the other big lifts, I can even do three pullups in a row now after having been able to do just one six weeks ago.

    How do I into OHP?

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      eat more lift more

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      This is a big lift that requires a coordinated effort of your entire shpulder/upper body girdle. To progress, everything has to get stronger/bigger. Every part of the selt, every part of the arm, upper chest, core, etc. Progress comes slow on ohp. Your best best for results is to eat and hammer away at the movement 3-4 times a week at least. You're only working with 45 lbs, so it's nothing you can't recovee from overnight

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Unfortunately ohp is as bastard as it is fair, if you eat more you'll make great gainz, but if you don't it won't go up

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Unironically program it into 5x5 or 3x5. For most people doing the big 4, OHP is commonly the lightest lift. It's slow to progress with.
      If your gym has them, use 1.25 LB plates to progress per week (basically adding 2.5 lbs to your OHP weight per week).
      >using an olympic bar
      Just get some rope, shoelaces, string, whatever to tie those 1.25 lb plates and hang it on the bar.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        use dumbbells, adjustable dumbbells, and use fractional weights. absolutely fricking hate barbell ohp, but dumbbell feels so much better.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          That’s cause you aren’t doing barbell ohp right, once you get it down it is the most orgasmic lift

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            what I like about dumbells is I don't have to move my head out of the way to fully press up, and I never have that fear on the latter reps / sets that im 1 bat lift from being a vegetable.

            nothing will ever make me like overhead press with a barbell.

            • 2 years ago
              Anonymous

              You don’t have your form right, you don’t need to move your head out of the way aside from the maybe the slightest lean, you are a bit too upright and not tightening you lower posterior chain enough putting you in a shit position. Your chest should be a bit puffed and your lats and traps activated. OHP is probably one of the safest lifts and it is difficult to really frick it up unless your being moronic, the most I’ve even been injured was straining my arm from a grinder, and that was from over exertion. It sounds like you are making the same type of excuse people do for doing dumbell bench over barbell, you just need to learn the lift better

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                I have clear safeties for bench press, otherwise I would never fricking do that either, overhead press there is no safety and if one of my arms gives that 80+lb of metal slamming down into my skull, would rather to dumbell where its mode of failure is shoulder to floor rather than directly overhead.

                fricking despise overhead press with a barbell

                as for bench with a dumbbells, there is valid reasons for range of motion especially with a more developed chest. but I would argue for chest development flys are going to help people more than bench just due to it being FAR harder to have poor form with flys while barbell most people frick from up in ways they don't realize for a long time.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                If you are about to fail you just slowly lower to your rack position, there is no risk really whatsoever unless you are an extreme dyel and your push pressing way higher than you should. It’s not like when you fail you just drop the weight like a moron. Your fears are unfounded and it seems like you need to work on your form barbell ohp form more, as well as probably improve your rack position so you can get more comfortable with holding a barbell in front of you.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                i'm not talking about controlled failure, im talking catastrophic failure, as in a muscle detached or just an unexpected pain hitting really sharp on a late rep, something where a controlled failure is unlikely if not impossible, and I don't think I will have the state of mind in that kind of failure to get the frick out of the way fast.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                You really live your life in fear friend, the chances of that shit happening to you are pretty low, in fact I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone’s muscle detach on barbell ohp, but I have seen peoples joints get fricked on all forms of dumbbell presses even from fuel weight there is even a webm that has been floating around of some kids elbow getting dislocated, so your fear is incorrectly placed. Even with all that, if you train landing in that rack position whenever you fail your body will automatically reset to that position from all the repetition. Even when I strained my arm when doing that grinder, I just lowered it to front rack and reracked the bar no problem. Worse case you literally just throw it forward and step back

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                OHP is ok. I do db bench monday, dips wednesday, ohp friday. If I had to choose just one, I'd choose bb bench because it's more functional and the core and upper back get strong from squats and deadlifts, not ohp. In fact I only do ohp because I can't make upright rows work for me.

                I blacked out on heavy ohps and the bar just harmlessly fell to the floor in front of me.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      It needs to be train 3 times a week at least. It responds best to high volume and high intensity, 3x5 doesn’t do shit. Push press is one of the best ways to improve ohp. Strengthen your core and upper back to help stabilize your lift. All these things helped me hit bw ohp

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        this is terrible advice for anyone that can ohp more than 40kg

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          No it isnt. The more advanced you get the more volume you generally need. Overhead press should be trained 4x a week at least

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            im with this guy. i've gone from 135 max to 155 max in about a month by doing ohp every 2-3 days. unless you have some spine/shoulder mobility problems you can do it all the time

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            https://i.imgur.com/4uRT4lL.jpg

            im with this guy. i've gone from 135 max to 155 max in about a month by doing ohp every 2-3 days. unless you have some spine/shoulder mobility problems you can do it all the time

            i guess if you're a fatass you can recover from that. I'm tryna gain strength on a cut, recently dropped from 18 to 12% and just hit strict OHP low tempo 4x5 1 pl8 and after OHP I do high reps of accessory lifts for shoulders like reverse pec deck and side/front raises. Shoulders are destroyed for days afterwards, but the gains are insane with such low volume approach (1-2x a week). For shoulders it's quality over quantity of the reps you do. It's useless to even do an exercise if you can't feel the target muscle contracting

            • 2 years ago
              Anonymous

              >For shoulders it's quality over quantity of the reps you do.
              For most people it'll be the opposite. Smaller muscles need more volume

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                volume is the amount of work you do, not the magic number of repetitions. 1 high intensity rep where you fully feel the muscle contracting to the max throughout its entire extent is worth an entire set with bullshit reps you Black folk be doing. Verification not required.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                If that's what you believe, but it's not true for most people

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >1 high intensity rep where you fully feel the muscle contracting to the max throughout its entire extent is worth an entire set with bullshit reps you Black folk be doing
                lol
                t. does a 60 second long lateral raise and calls it a day

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Olympic weightlifters used to do more than that when clean and press was part of the contest.

            • 2 years ago
              Anonymous

              They also develop their strength and ability to do so from a young age.

              Cheats.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I train it twice every 8 days and have a max of 100kg.

            • 2 years ago
              Anonymous

              2pl8 ohp
              i dunno bro

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                I was doing 85kg 5x5 strict pause reps last week.
                My vertical pressing strength is unreasonably good relative to my bench press.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                every time someone says this on IST then post a vid, they're doing standing bench press

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Standing bench press is based if you're doing ohp to isolate front delts or someshit you're moronic.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous
              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                Can you also do one about doing db bench instead of bb bench

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                I did 80x9 friday. I train it about once a week, one week an amrap to maintain proficiency, other week 4 ohp amraps + 6 amraps of machine assistance to drive strength and hypertrophy. I increase weight on sets when I can do 12 reps. 0 stalling just steady gains. I used to do sets of fahve but stalling was much more common.

              • 2 years ago
                Anonymous

                >I did 80x9 friday. I train it about once a week

                Impressive.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            moron

            • 2 years ago
              Anonymous

              How is that moronic? Every decent powerlifting coach will tell you the same. Look up RTS shit; they sometimes have 35+ pressing sets a week

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        Real talk how do I get stronger in this?
        I've been going to gym for 6 weeks now after a 2 year break.
        Can't do more than 4x10 @ JUST THE BAR.
        I'm getting stronger at the other big lifts, I can even do three pullups in a row now after having been able to do just one six weeks ago.

        How do I into OHP?

        I've been doing double pyramids of an OHP followed by arnold press and lateral raises (5x10s on both) only 2x a week and saw decent gainz. Idk what to call it other than that, but to describe my OHP routine, I do speed triples and keep increasing the weight until I slow down, then hit a heavy single, build back down to the lowest weight I did for triples, and then build back up again to another heavy single. Feels pretty good and got me from 185 ohp max to 205 ohp max (for the top set, haven't had a fresh PR day yet) in about 2 months. I'm a bench specialist anyways though (375 smolov jr connoisseur) and am just trying to improve my OHP on the side without dedicating too much time.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      What helped me was doing a heavy day 4x5 and then a lighter day 4x8. If I stalled with the 4x5, I'd switch to a 4x5 push press for some time, deload 15% and switch back to strict again. That would usually get me past the stalled weight.

  6. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    i really love OHP. its my favorite exercise. lifting heavy thing over head like a monke

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      if the picrel is really you u actually became a monke anon i didnt know that was achievable with OHP.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        touch grass incel

  7. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    It made me seethe 30mins ago
    Another day, another failed PR attempt

  8. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    It's the ultimate masculine exercise. Make sure to do glute bridges/hip thrusts too. Glutes help stabilize your body while doing it.

  9. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    I like the OHP, but I always end up getting a pinched nerve in my neck doing them. Doesn't happen with dumbbells, though. I don't ego lift, and my form is good for the most part, but I have a hard time not instinctually pushing my neck down into my traps when doing it. Anyone else have this problem, and what did you do to correct it?

  10. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    It's dangerous and inferior to seated dumbbell press in every way

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Post body

  11. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    OHP is a superior exercise compared to bench press.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Bench Press and OHP train different dimensions of a press... You need all three, the dip, the ohp and bench to train all parts of the pressing motions also the handstand if you want to be a sperg.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        Should I do all the push exercises in the same workout?

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          chest
          back
          shoulders
          chest/back
          shoulders/legs

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >mfw

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        Olympic weight lifters, you know, real athletes, prove you don't need much bench press.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      It is far better for upper body strength. As a poor home gym gay with no rack and only a barbell and weights, I can only train ohp. However when I tested my bench a couple months ago i hit 255 with ease at 160 bw. I haven’t actually trained bench in over a year, and when I was training bench hard my max was 275x2 and that was at 175 bw. Ohp improves your pushing strength like crazy and has way better cross over

  12. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Don't know where you got that shit from, dyels are pretty much the only ones who love doing this copelift

  13. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    They cant do it without either cheating on form or ego lifting with ultra cheating on form. Which is why they seethe so hard when a chad walks up and strict form pushes the same weight that they can squat

  14. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    it makes my shoulders seethe ill tell you that

  15. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    I love OHP. Hit 1pl8 for a double last week and am testing my 1RM later this week.
    By the end of my next training cycle I want to be able to do 1pl8 for 5.

  16. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Because only DYELs do it. Avoid the OHP if you care about longevity.
    Its a high risk low reward lift. Matt Wenning, a world record holder who holds a masters degree in biomechanics and trains fire departments, swat teams, and special forces in longevity advises to not ever do OHP at all

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      wow some moron gay I dont care about doesnt like it guess that means Ill never do it again in my life
      kys moron

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        Its pretty much universally known now in powerlifting that the OHP is unnecessary. No real coaches program it for their athletes as a main lift that is done heavy like DYELs on IST do it.
        It taxes shoulder recovery for no additional benefit. Pull ups provide all the overhead work you need in a healthier movement pattern.

        Every strongman and every oly lifter train it, and those are the strongest lads around, why would I listen to a powershitter they are even bigger gays than body builders, cause they are neither strong nor aesthetic

        How long is the average career of a an olympic weightlifter or strongman, lol?

        >high risk low reward lift.
        >ohp
        How

        The joint is already in a vulnerable position overhead without weight. Adding weight will put unnecessary wear and tear on your shoulder for no additional benefit.

        ok so whats his alternative recommendation?

        If you're benching, you're getting enough front delt already, which renders OHP redundant. You're better off focusing heavily on REAR delts with a ton of volume as well as upper back. For triceps, there are tons of variations of lifts that will hit them better than overhead press. One of my favourites is the JM press. Im up to 140 for sets of 10 on it and when i tried ohp for the first time in 7 months i was actually stronger than my previous best, just by beefing up my triceps and lats.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous
        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >pull-ups = OHP
          this is the dumbest shit I’ve read all day. Congratulations

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >Adding weight will put unnecessary wear and tear on your shoulder for no additional benefit.
          I believe shrugging prevents this

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >140x10 jm press
          Dyels shouldn't give advice

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >How long is the average career of a an olympic weightlifter or strongman, lol?
          Strongmen and weightlifters have longer lifting careers then people who don't lift, moron.

          >Pullups provide overhead work
          Most braindead thing I've read this month.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          Bro, just engage your lats to create stability and all of that goes away lol

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      ok so whats his alternative recommendation?

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Every strongman and every oly lifter train it, and those are the strongest lads around, why would I listen to a powershitter they are even bigger gays than body builders, cause they are neither strong nor aesthetic

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        >powershitter weak
        >world record holder in both raw and equipped, squatting over 1000 pounds at 6 ft 1

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >high risk low reward lift.
      >ohp
      How

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      literally WHO?!

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous
    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      I hope he dies

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Matt Wenning - The Rob Oberst of the OHP

  17. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    I’m a homosexual and it’s unironically my favorite lift

  18. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    So are you actually supposed to push your head under the bar or what? People keep telling me you're not supposed to and it needs to stay infront of you and just to "shrug" at the end but I have no fricking clue.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      I tilt my head back a bit when the bar goes up and when it passes my head i put my head back in a neutral position to hit side delts very well. After every set it feels like a tightened belt around my upper body and shoulders and i just want to cry in joy because of that awesome feeling.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        it doesn't hit side delts

        shoulders>chest

        "shoulders" are mostly side delts

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >shoulders are mostly side delts
          where did this meme come from? Do you know how ridiculous you are going to look if your 3 shoulder heads aren't proportional to each other?

          volume is the amount of work you do, not the magic number of repetitions. 1 high intensity rep where you fully feel the muscle contracting to the max throughout its entire extent is worth an entire set with bullshit reps you Black folk be doing. Verification not required.

          most people don't have good shoulders, especially naturals

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            meant to reply to

            If that's what you believe, but it's not true for most people

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            The other side of this are people on cycle with ridiculous overdeveloped shoulders disproportionate to the rest of the body.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >it doesn't hit side delts
          It surely does.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        So are you actually supposed to push your head under the bar or what? People keep telling me you're not supposed to and it needs to stay infront of you and just to "shrug" at the end but I have no fricking clue.

        I'm not a meat master by any means, but I start with bar off of chest. Chest/lats activated and tight. Push up and as the bar rises move my chin back slightly to clear it. Once it is overhead, I push my head through and my ears are in line with my arms like you would do with an Olympic jerk. Lock out and then reverse it down in a controlled manner.

        Was stuck at 115-120lbs for a while until I started clean and jerking, now I can do 155x2 if I'm feeling frisky. The speed of jerking the weight really teaches you how to produce the force needed to move it.

        i do it at the gym just to flex sometimes with lmao1pl8, but it's a complete meme exercise
        you hardly get a pump at all, it's incredibly fatiguing. front delt isolation literally doesn't matter if you do other presses and it doesn't hit the tricep hard enough compared to other exercises

        That being said, I prefer to do NSUNs method of it as an accessory. Sets of 3-5-7-4-6-8 with a relatively lighter weight like 95 lbs. It gets my traps and shoulders smoked and my upper chest pumps like crazy. If you aren't getting a pump then you might not be moving it properly, because you should definitely be activating things.

  19. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    I do standing incline press. Much better.

  20. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    I prefer the bench press

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      shoulders>chest

  21. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    i do it at the gym just to flex sometimes with lmao1pl8, but it's a complete meme exercise
    you hardly get a pump at all, it's incredibly fatiguing. front delt isolation literally doesn't matter if you do other presses and it doesn't hit the tricep hard enough compared to other exercises

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Do a reverse pyramid and then see how you hardly get a pump. Start with the bar and 15 reps and add 10kg every set while decreasing the reps to 12, 10, 8, etc. You won't even be able to press 1 pl8 for 1 rep

  22. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    It’s the hardest lift for me, but it’s enjoyable. Nothing feels better than setting a new pr and getting that heavy shit over your head. You feel like a king.

  23. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    anyone here jumped to 1pl8 out of nowhere?
    i barely can do 80lbs but one time i was messing around and can do 135

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Probably your form

  24. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    I prefer dumbbell press. I can get more ROM with dumbbells

  25. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Does anyone have the vid of the moron who broke his spine doin that

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      he was doing snatch not OHP

  26. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    It's an amazing exercise but if you're doing the "standing bench press" form you should have a nice day.

  27. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    They're so difficult. Unironically fricking love these.

  28. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >OHP's in you're path

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Scary how slow they are to help

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        wouldnt make a difference in this case, damage is already done

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Standard powerlift is so fricking safe compared to olympiclifts kek

  29. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Went to a joint doctor because I had shoulder impingement. He said that shrugging does nothing and to lower the weight. He got me doing rotator cuff physical therapy.

    Does OHP not do anything for the rotator cuff? Doctor said OHP is an exercise that causes a lot of strain on your shoulder just because of the nature of how the bones move.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Add 3x10 OHP with real light kettlebells to the end of every workout, having the weight extended beyond your fists makes it more unstable and works the little stabilizing muscles. Slow and controlled up and down. And shrug

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      > Does OHP not do anything for the rotator cuff?
      It doesn’t facepulls are your friends if you plan on pressing heavy.
      > He said that shrugging does nothing and to lower the weight.
      Not true, shrugging creates more room in the shoulder joint for tendons
      > Doctor said OHP is an exercise that causes a lot of strain on your shoulder just because of the nature of how the bones move.
      Also false if you don’t know how to press like I didn’t or like you seem then it will cause pain Omarisuf, AlphaDestiny, Bald Omniman, they all have some form of OHP in their program but don’t have any injury cuz they do the exercise well this video is a really good explainer if you disregard the zoomer music: https://youtube.com/shorts/DN3WXJlB1Q4?feature=share
      Or this: https://youtu.be/_RlRDWO2jfg

  30. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Tried ohp yesterday for the first time
    Did 2x10 0.5 plate
    Then 1x5 0.75 plate
    Felt nice

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      how much do you bench

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        4x5 1.5 plate when I'm feeling super good
        Usually like 4x3 1.5 plate max
        I don't have spotter or safety pins so I'm scared

  31. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Every push day, god tier shoulder exercise

  32. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >there are people in this thread that think they will get into recovery issues from pressing more than 3 times a week

  33. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Seated DB press is my go-to, I have to hold the barbell too far out in front so I don't whack my nose or chin and it just feels wrong

  34. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    If I can one hand OHP my 55 lb kettlebell for like 7-10 reps how much weight could i OHP on a barbell for the same amount of reps
    Don’t have a barbell but just curious what you guys think

  35. 2 years ago
    Beedrill

    > Behind the neck pushpress for maximum pump and dyel seething.

  36. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    i cannot explain it but OHP makes me feel the best out of any lift and its that simple for me

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Its got next to no lower back involvement which is tired from everything else you do.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      for me it's deep ass squats

  37. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    am i the only one that suicide grips ohp?
    i used to do it the other way, but i watched some vid, tried suicide and never went back so much better

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