Why is this bitch so hard? I've been working out for only a month now, so I'm still kinda weak (65kg, kinda skinny fat), but I really struggle to finish 3x5 with even just 5kg on the barbell (using the big one that's also used for squats, not sure how much it weighs). At the end I'm barely lifting the whole thing, it's kinda depressing bros, especially if a qt 3.14 walks by as I struggle to lift my baby weight ;_;
>Why is this bitch so hard?
>I'm still kinda weak
It just feels like an extremely hard exercise overall, I'm increasing weight for squats, bench, assisted dips/chinups, but OHP I go until failure pretty much every time, with just 5kg.
It isn't a hard lift in itself, as in it isn't extremely technical. It's just that your front delts are not really weight moving muscles. They are mainly slow twitch muscles meaning they're more suited to endurance (many reps, low weight). This is why people spam out lat raises at low reps to grow them. You'll go up in weight but a 1pl8 OHP is where it starts to get respectable, think about it like you're already at 25kg out of 60kg which is basically half way to respectable.
>This is why people spam out lat raises at low reps to grow them
I've been doing 3x12 side lateral raises twice a week hoping it would help me increase my 3x5 OHP. Am I retarded?
>Am I retarded?
a little bit. OHP does not involve lat delt at all. Ignore what retards like
say it is almost exclusively a front delt exercise. If you want to increase your OHP do more OHP. 3x5 is not enough. Do 5x5 or 3x8. Also other lifts like machine shoulder presses, DB shoulder press etc will help. Keep doing your lat raises though. If you're bodybuilding 3x12 twice a week is not enough to grow
Tricep work is more important than any delt isolations, although they are also important
the overhead press requires less tricep strength than a barbell bench press it's mostly an anterior deltoid exercise and no matter how strong your triceps are it's the shoulders that are the limiting factor on how much you can overhead press
last time i failed my ohp single i couldn't clear it past my nose
was my delt or tricep strength the sticking point? i
You should be trying to get your delts and triceps as strong as possible either way, although you might just have lacked explosiveness at the bottom and delts are more likely to be your weakness
now look at the study and how they performed the exercise
they didn't use a rippletits standing overhead press with the torso or upper torso leaning and curving back, they used a strict 90 degrees bench seated shoulder press with arms completely to the sides on the frontal plane and the back completely in contact with the vertical bench which obviously uses more lateral deltoids than how almost every single person does shoulder presses
but no one's gonna be overhead pressing with that technique specially not standing
not to mention that a measly ~30% MVIC EMG mean reading on the lateral deltoid that is supposedly a prime/target muscle on the lateral raise is horrible, just for that reason that shit paper should be put in the trash because there is obviously something wrong with the methodology in the assessment of MVIC or the EMG electrodes themselves. Also they don't even show peak activity or concentric vs eccentric EMG readings for some reason.
when looking at any other emg study or experiment both mean and peak emg readings from lateral raises blow any kind of overhead pressing out of the fucking water
Honestly high pulls are a better, more complete shoulder complex exercise.
I work up ohp because the motion is so basic I'd rather be able to do it if I needed to.
Lateral raises are for your side delts, it would be retarded to not do them, but they wont help that much for OHP, but why would that matter.
>it isn't extremely technical
not true at all, it's extremely form-dependent
Bro you just push the bar above your head it is nowhere near as technical as a squat or a deadlift
kek, deadlift is by far the easiest of the four. the bar is blocked by your legs, so you can't fuck the movement up very much
>Why is this bitch so hard?
requires actual muscle mass gain to get better at
no pot belly or fat tits to help with
it's a very hard lift if you're tall skinny and lanky but it's a great exercise regardless, good carryover to most presses except for flat and decline obviously
if the bar goes even an inch forward from the normal line of pressing it makes the exercise incredibly difficult, for that reason it is technical
you don't have the same thing on a squat or a deadlift or a bench press where you can just brute force and call upon other muscles to correct the movement trajectory
One of the smallest muscles and one that doesnt get weight put on it normally
Your legs, chest, and back are all gigantic relative to PART of your shoulder.
What I found helped me with OHP is increasing reps before weight, i.e do 3x3, gradually adding reps till I manage 3x5 then adding weight and going back to 3x3.
Also make sure to perfect your form and optimise for weight.
>I've been working out for only a month
I wonder why. Might want to just do the barbell to begin with.
It never gets easier. Never stop OHPing. Godspeed.
after this episode came out I started doing this for like two weeks in the yard
25 isn't bad for your first month at 65 kg. When I started as a turboweak skinnyfag, I could barely do it with 10kg but my shoulders quickly grew. It's a tough and ungrateful lift, especially at first, but you'll learn to appreciate it.
i prefer standing dumbbells shoulder press
I had the same stats as you when i started. You get stronger. Nobody really cares you are weak in the start
It's not that hard. Observe
let me guess, he needs to ohp at least 1.3 x his bodyweight to leave dyel mode...
It's a good start, but that's easily achievable with 6 months of SS + GOMAD
how tall are you?
you look like you're 5'2"
5'5" and 88kg in the video
Jesus christ lose some weight pls
I'm rooting for you, fellow dwarf.
Thanks, man. WAGMI
>cocky despite shit form
>thinks his super strict 1pl8 press is impressive
I was injured. Remember?
I see you are pretty desperate to avoid having to post your own press. No press no post. Dyels don't get go have opinions on the lifts of people who are stronger than them
stay slanty, dumb tripfag
Good idea. I doubt your ego could survive it
I already invited him too. He declined lol.
I can only do 265-275 right now but was looking forward to crushing whatever he put up.
Nice. Got a vid?
Gain some muscle, twink
I'll go get one tonight, I'm at work.
Looks like you're trying to re-injure yourself if you ask me.
That press was great despite the lagging left arm. I've done much lighter presses that left me with a stiff or sore back
Some fair criticism of his attitude, but pointing out that it's a bad lift without outdoing him and proving so only makes you seem like a DYEL nerd whos bitter and retarded. his lift is good, something you'd know if you pressed more than 65kg for 2 reps.
Stop wobbling or I'll use this permanently as a display of poor form instead of Rinnegan's shitlifts.
So you lifted it once with terrible form - the fact that you think this is worthy of posting is embarrassing. Powershitters, man... I would rather bust out 8-10 reps of lighter weight with good form and build some size and definition than struggle to awkwardly do a single OHP and post it on fucking IST of all places. Seriously, it looks like an injury waiting to happen.
>of lighter weight
So like when I do 80kg for 12 reps?
It's the most fickle lift in the fucking world I swear to God. I've been going back to the gym for 5 months now and I've been stuck at 52.5kg (and even then some days I'll have to push press the last rep out) probably over half of that. Meanwhile I've reached 2pl8 on bench press and 3pl8 deadlift for five reps (injured my knee so can't do squats but I was making good progress on that before I had to stop, will probably try them again tonight).
everybody starts somewhere. do you think mr. olympia was born this way?
starting weak is ok. staying weak is not ok.
Don't sweat it. It's a difficult lift and takes time to progress on. Eat well, sleep properly and keep training and you'll get better
I stalled on 40kg for some time, madcow made things easier for me. I'm doing 50kg for reps now.
We chose to OHP, and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard.
First 40% of motion uses mid to rear delts. People lean back because they need to use the front of their shoulders and their upper rhomboids suck, can't stabilize.
This is why the old school guys used behind the neck press. We have shoulder press machines for that mow though, do that to failure as an accessory.
>First 40% of motion uses mid to rear delts
Come back when you hit 3 plates newfags.
sure thing buddy. retard.
Post vid of you pressing and then I will when I get home.
im at work you spastic
Then when you get home.
If I am a liar and wrong you shouldn't be afraid of doing this.
It's almost like you give bad advice and talk about lifting on the internet to feel better after plateauing at intermediate level.
I bet you can't even squat or dead 500+
Knew it. Scared of being exposed.
Post deltoid and upper traps are the only muscles activated at or below around 125 lbs.
At 175 the rear and lateral delts along with scapular muscles become limiting factors, their recruitment increases at a greater than linear rate.
I know because I struggled through the 2 plate plateau. Then I started trying new shit. Also I actually read research instead of just cherry picking it.
Emg activation is different for later sets and different weights.
There is no way the trapezius is going to gas out and be superseded by posterior delt activity. Traps cover your entire upper back and rear delts are only a small band maybe two inches wide. The same way when you do rear delt isolation on the pec dec and can put on 150 lbs for reps. You make it an upper back exercise. The rear delt gets taken over by the traps with anything much heavier than 20lbs max. After that it’s all traps. It’s just too small of a muscle. You’re wrong. And you can be as autistic and stubborn as you want and deny it and insult me, but you’re just incorrect about the rear delt
rear delts are a pulling muscle how the fuck are you using your rear delts pushing in an OHP you mongrel
Several muscles are pushing and pulling muscles.
Go through the motion of ohp. Keep one of your hands on your rear delt. You will feel it transition from pushing to pulling, about the time your traps activate in the motion.
rear delts don't do shit on overhead pressing moron not even if you're pressing behind the neck they are active in vertical pulling not vertical pushing
And this is how I know you only lift 135-155. Because shoulder stability and other delt activation increases greatly at 175-200.
I got my knowledge the hard way, throwing volume at lifts doesn't work when you start approaching advanced level. You have to start thinking about shit beyong a 12 year old level.
Your trap is not the only scapular muscle dipshit. I hope you don't listen to me, so you can wonder why you tore your rotator cuff later.
These people are novice to intermediate lifters. I bet they try to tell other people they count to five slowly while squatting 600.
>And this is how I know you only lift 135-155
here's me overhead pressing 220lbs at 180-185lbs bodyweight
the rear delts aren't doing anything meaningful on an overhead press, not even on a behind the neck press I don't care how much they are "activating" for stability purposes that ain't gonna build any muscle unless you're a bedridden sarcopenic paraplegic, your rear delts are 10x more active during upper body pulling than they are in any form of pressing bro
you mean upright rows?
yeah they mog, I hate lateral raises
nice an actually strick OHP and not the leg push shit you see everywhere.
lmao sit rat
has done you
Encouraging people to neglect secondary muscles is how injuries happen.
Now I have to go home and ohp lol.
Unless you'd rather see my high pull, I can do 355 on that.
who's neglecting anything? What has rear delts not being involved in OHP got to do with neglecting anything?
It is involved at higher weights.
So is lat delts.
They are completely uninvolved at lower weights.
Check the research.
>Check the research.
how? serious question. the movement is the same so should be the muscles needed.
you're not neglecting any muscle if you actually train it with proper exercises
but you get way more activation with better exercises
if you are doing any sort of row you're already training your rear delts far more than you do with any kind of press
it's always the anterior deltoid that fails during an overhead press
if you bench more than you overhead press(which you obviously should) your triceps are never going to be what limit you in an overhead press
Maybe he’s confusing them with his traps? Those might activate to shrug the shoulders up a little in the vertical plane like a mini push press.
No I am not.
Several muscles other than the delts attach to the shoulder, and the jobs they all perform are counterintuitive, because they were designed by evolution, not an engineer.
But I am done trying to help, stay stupid IST, have fun never pushing more than 2 plates.
Yes you are wrong. Rear delts provide some stability but they stop contributing to the lift way, way before you even hit 135. You are wrong in every way a person can be wrong. You’re promoting the opposite of fact. Go google “posterior deltoid” then google “trapezius”. You’ll notice one is about 20x larger than the other. Why don’t you explain how the muscle that is 1/20th the size is contributing more than the other. Is your explanation “it just does”? Your anecdotal evidence from your sample size of 1 isn’t conclusive, Amigo. You are confusing your trap activity with rear delt activation. What other things confuse you? Do you get Memorial Day and Labor Day mixed up as well? That’s pretty common. Just admit, you are ignorant. Admit you’re a prideful and ignorant piece of shit
Then why don't your results in the gym reflect your vast knowledge lol?
Lat delt activation jumps to 80% at 175 and rear delt jumps to 30% at the same weight. Just because traps and post delts are the main movers does not change this, and anyone who thinks they can ignore that and treat movements like they are isolation is not making it past intermediate level.
You will continue to run entire cycles fighting for 5 more pounds and I will continue to be stronger than you.
Because when I plateau I throw aside my pride and try new shit. You just keep doing the same thing and blame your genetics or my personal favorite, accuse everyone of roiding.
Remember I gave you the opportunity to show everyone your lift. You chickened out because you are fake.
>and then i will when I get home.
you are already sitting in your bedroom typing this, you won't do shit
Because you're 65kg you idiot, eat food lol.
Force yourself to get better bro. I started OHP with empty barbell. Now I'm closer to 1pl8, which isn't much either, but you will get there.
Just pushed two plate OHP
It takes time to grow because your shoulder are small muscles and you can’t cheat, you either lift it or can’t.
Do OHP but work on other muscles in the meantime and over time you will get stronger
I swear to god you people are redditors who moved here a few years ago.
You need total development around your rotator cuff or you will stall halfway through the lift.
All of you have terrible scapular mobility and strength, I guarantee it.
Get a bench, put it in front of the functional trainer, start seated away from the weight stacks with your arms upright with elbows on your quads.
Push the cables above your head from that position.
Have fun being sore.
>Get a bench, put it in front of the functional trainer, start seated away from the weight stacks with your arms upright with elbows on your quads.
>Push the cables above your head from that position.
I'm ESL and didn't understand what you meant, could you post an image or video of it?
This will hit your traps, super and infraspinatus and improve scapular mobility and stability.
Make sure to lean forward a bit to maintain tension.
climbers do this, it's basically a reverse face pull into overhead extension
honestly doing weird little rehab exercises like this is absolutely great for all shoulder movements
You CAN cheat. That’s why it’s not an olympic lift. So easy to jump or something.
And the Soviets and American judges would always be stricter when judging their competition's presses
This double layback press should be judged to be invalid. Can you spot the reasons?
>standing bench press
lmao this takes me back to when I learned form from rippetoe, what a fucking menace
rip gave it a red light btw
Wouldn’t any way that could be cheated on OHP also be cheated on Clean and Jerk? Clean and Jerk is an oly lift right?
It is hard but I won't give up. My shoulder now hurts a little so going to take a week off it. I'll focus on rear and side delt this week
I'm starting to get the right feel for it. I believe most people place the bar too low and forward on their pecs in the starting position
My strict OHP 1rm is 200 lbs at 195lbs.
You gays are just literal weaklings
Do these for volume after a proper set of OHPs to build up your strength level properly, your arms are just weak m8.
Do I need to bulk yet again to go from 200lbs OHP to 225lbs OHP (a dream goal of mine). I’m currently liking my body as is tbh
I hate this fucking exercise. It's the only one where I continually backtrack. I finally hit 60kg for 3x6 after 6 months of grinding, then the following week I totally failed on 60kg and barely managed to scrape out 55kg.
Don't worry, that stops happening and your strength becomes more consistent, at least that's my experience
I hope so. At the moment, I can only progress if I have at least two full days of rest for upper body before shoulder day.
That's not much of an issue. I hit 115kg while only ever OHPing twice per week on Mondays and Thursdays or Fridays
I've been doing OHP three times a week and haven't really been getting anywhere; I suppose I should probably dial it back.
try high reps 8-12
Start with doing them seated. You are also supposed to be struggling, that’s the point
idk what kg is use american measurements please
idk, i can easily do seated db shoulder press 80 lbs dumbbells for 8-10 reps going all the way down (db touching shoulders) but i struggle with 110 lbs strict standing bb ohp, i guess it has to do with all the extra stabilizing work your body has to do to keep the balance under that load
standing or sitting
After my next powerlifting meet I'm planning on just focusing on strict OHP until I hit 2pl8 for a 1rm (my best ever is 205 strict, 225 push press). I was thinking 3x3, 3 times a week plus accessories. Thoughts? Was thinking maybe 5x3 but that might be a bit much 3 times a week since I hurt my right shoulder not too long ago.
>do 9 sets over a two week period
>wtf why don't I grow
Has anyone dealt with serious neck pain doing overhead press? 2 of the past 3 times I’ve done it, I’ve gotten horrible neck pain lasting multiple days down where my lower neck meets my back. Seems to happen when I go a bit heavier on the lift, around my max 3 rep range.
Any ideas how to prevent this? I have been chasing 2pl8 OHP but the pain is rather bad today (did them last night) and I am wondering whether I should stop doing them altogether.