>2023
>Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe is still the best program for beginners that want to gain mass and strength
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>2023
>2023
>Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe is still the best program for beginners that want to gain mass and strength
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i firmly believe that you have never entered a gym in your life
Fpbp
You'll get bigger faster running SS and Then a higher volume program than just running a volume program from the start
SS is just an inferior version of reg parks beginners routine
SS didn't work for me, and it wasn't because of too little effort. My muscles kept being fatiqued. 5x5 is moronic. 4x6 is alot better with progressive overload sets instead of a fixed weight.
YNDP
SS is 3x5 you moron and deadlift is 1x5.
it's still moronic to do this little volume for size. I basically wasted a lot of time as a beginner because I was told that if you wanna get huge the big 3 is gonna be enough. The butthole tried to sell his powershitter programme as a BB one. There are almost no isolation movements, unnecessary exercises like clean and jerk or something, misleading techniques which allow you to lift a lot of weight but which are useless for size and so on
>The butthole tried to sell his powershitter programme as a BB one.
Where did he say this?
https://startingstrength. com/article/strength-training-is-hypertrophy-training
That's the first thing I found but NH has a good video about rippetoe, there are more examples out there
>strength training is hypertrophy training
That's a completely accurate statement.
?si=7X38vBSi7123puMn
no it's not, if you're a powershitter you will put 80 to 90 % of effort in the gym into getting stronger and the rest will go into size, it's just a barely noticeable side effect. You can get much bigger while using less weight with another form, rep range and overall programme which is safer and less fatiguing if you only want to look better
>will put 80 to 90 % of effort in the gym into getting stronger and the rest will go into size,
Lmfao what the frick are you talking about. You morons just say random bullshit you think sounds good. How do you think muscles grow and why they grow? Hint: it's progressive overload.
I told you already, progressive overload does matter but there are different ways to achieve it because rep ranges ARE important, that's just the way things are. There's also a vid explaining why there's a distinction between BBs and powerlifeters
https://youtu. be/NWQyXN-HfDo?si=yxL0HpV-jDvQSAwI
>progressive overload does matte
Progressive overload is all that matters.
>But muh rep range
And as far as rep range goes, all that matters is how effectively it allows you to progressively overload.
>Published research proves him wrong
>w-w-w-w-we dun nid szince
When will diabetes finish this fat c**t
Rip does the Chad move"Yeah that's bullshit I know it, you know it, everyone knows it". Then the co-host chimes in and points out that the ""science"" in those studies is garbage.
But I get it, you're asshurt about having your gay worldview broken.
How is the science garbage? He only claims that because it came to different conclusion than his beliefs. If the science is bad then why do they not do their own studies? Ever since ss came out people have been asking rippletoe to provide proof for his claims like you can gain 30lb of muscle in 6 weeks.
>How is the science garbage
Because the methodology is trash and it isn't reproducible. As they stated in the video, exercise """science""" is infamously terrible and basically useless. It's been like that for decades.
But it's not like any of this is complex. Lift progressively heavier weights, eat food. The end.
Cite some examples. The studies I have read have included their methodology. It is very reproducible.
Why did you ignore the second part of my post? Why don't trainers like rippletoe make produce some studies themselves? They have enough people who would volunteer. It's not like he doesn't have enough money to fund them himself.
>Cite some examples
No.
>answer for Rippetoe as to why he doesn't fund and conduct his own studies
No.
Thank you for proving my point. Scam artists like ripplebreasts are scum
>"lift heavy weight and eat" is a scam
You're an idiot.
it's minimalistic to a point it means nothing
Lol? It's the only principles that matter. Everything else is just jerking off.
The principles are only good if applied correctly. The belief that they are only applied correctly in ss is bizarre.
Depends on your definition of "correctly". If you mean most effectively, then it'd be sets of 5 reps. If you mean it works at all, then you could do 3x12 or whatever. You can still progressively overload with higher reps it's just significantly less effective.
>Lift progressively heavier weights, eat food
until you plateau and then the only thing you are told to do is to fricking eat
You deload AND eat more. By the way you realize you can't infinitely grow in size and strength, right? At a certain point you will hit a brick wall and that's that.
What if you want muscle WITHOUT fat?
Not happening. You bulk and cut.
When you stall on SS you should stop doing it or at least progress to texas method, deloading and working up the weights again is just moronic.
Deloading is completely normal. And why would it be moronic when you can continue to put more weight on the bar after a deload?
People who denounce deloading don't actually lift enough volume for it to be necessary, or they're on enormous amounts of gear and still aren't lifting enough. Either way they're just admitting they're pussies who don't lift.
What’s supposed to happen in the couple of weeks while you build back to your old plateau? Is that when the gains fairy visits to defy the basic principle of progressive overload, thereby granting you a substantially improved response to the exact same stimulus?
You just continue lifting. I don't know why you're so buttdevastated by deloading.
You improve by doing more work, not doing the same shit over and over again. Your body needs novel stimulus to warrant adaptation.
Deloading is fine but doing the same shit you did before it leads to nowhere.
>novel stimulus
Lol no. It needs progressive overload. Don't tell me you believe in the "heckin confuse the muscle!!" moronation
>Deloading is fine but doing the same shit you did before it leads to nowhere.
The point of deloading is to allow for overtaxed muscles and CNS to recover. It's the reason why athletes don't lift heavy or at all for a week or two before any competitions and they're much stronger for it.
Yes but in context of SS it makes no sense as all you do is work to up the same plateau without any chance in stimulus.
Didn’t read the book.
Oh I don't give a shit about SS, I don't do that garbage. I'm just supportive of deloads.
That's wrong. If you deload and eat more you won't plateau at the same weight.
>gaining weight without adding more work
lmao enjoy getting fat
During a bulk you will always be gaining fat.
Yeah but why would you be gaining muscle if you're suddenly doing LESS work for a few weeks before stalling again?
You SS cultists are silly and none of you are probably very strong.
SS works great to a certain point but when you stall you should immediately switch to more complex programming or at very least add more volume. This is what texas method does pretty well. Deloading 10% and trying again is just a moronic waste of time.
>Yeah but why would you be gaining muscle
What are you talking about. I just told you, you're letting your body recover.
You don't even lift. You've never done a deload in your life and you're too mentally weak to break through a plateau.
I deload after every six week, the difference is that I continuously increase the work I do.
What are you lifts?
Bench 150kg
Squat 220
DL 255
bw 92kg
>I deload after every six week, the difference is that I continuously increase the work I do.
So you're doing the same exact thing, only you're obfuscating with your masturbation. You deload and allow your body to recover.
You sound like just started lifting, nobody is arguing against recovery.
Go to /plg/ and look at the posters there. None of them look like they lift despite putting up impressive numbers.
An effective hypertrophy program will have you gain strength. However, a powerlifting program is not always effective for bodybuilding and will often leave various muscle groups underdeveloped.
Volume means frick all. All that matters for size is progressive overload of the muscle. And progressive overload is most efficient at 5 reps.
The amount of reps also matters in a way because muscles can not only increase in size but also get thicker. It means that even with progressive overload you could look like a DYEL. Five reps might not be enough, you just have to try different ranges and see for yourself. If 5 reps was always enough all or most powerlifter would look amazing but they don't. Most of the time they have dad bods, and it's NOT just because of fat. They are pretty mediocre considering how much they are able to lift
You're moronic and have gobbled up too much broscience. The only thing that matters is progressive overload. There is no debate.
>but muh powerlifters
Irrelevant. They gained a lot of muscle and for the ones who lift big numbers while not looking as big as you "think" they should, they have very favorable leverages so the actual loading is less than you might expect.
It's crazy that there are people too stupid to properly do the most basic beginner program that exists.
You didn’t read the book
>come up with most basic strength program
>write probably the most successful strength program book of all time
>tens of thousands if people progress and get results
>copelets misinterpret almost everything about it to feel good about not putting the work in
Pottery
there is virtually no difference between 4x6 and 5x5. one rep difference in volume (especially as a beginner) will have no effect on ur gains. moronic DYEL
Yeah seriously. That he would say that shows the level of 'magical thinking' rep range people engage in. It's all voodoo and shit. Like thinking that some rep ranges build muscle one way and some in a very different way or don't build muscle at all and everything else like that. Just magical thinking.
Rep ranges don't matter, weight on the bar does. So use a rep range that lets you keep putting weight on the bar.
>human physiology changed so much in 20 years that le old programs are not good anymore!
I've done SS for years and I'm a roider. I just toss in some random accessories when I feel like it like hit some curls after I'm done with my squat, DL and bench. Or rear delt rows.
>accessories
You were not doing SS then
Wrong. Even Rip says it's fine to hit some curls for the girls.
Read the book. There are no curls or any other accessories in the program. If you added them you didn't do the program.
https://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/mark-rippetoe-q-and-a/12713-bicep-strength-post76544.html?s=2257c622139d5b8195dadcfa58a2d9b1#post76544
https://startingstrength.com/training/why-will-you-not-do-the-program
The accessory chapter is for coaches, because the first edition was aimed at coaches. The actual program is detailed in the book, and does not contain any accessories. The book also contains front squats and RDLs, would you say someone is doing SS if they added those?
i am in his gym fricking moron, he says if you want throw some curls in as an accessory once or twice a week
You get to hang out with Rip? That's pretty cool.
>once or twice a week
you mean once or twice a year
There's literally a section on barbell curls where he explains how to do them "since you're going to do them anyways"
Someone post the meme.
SS has accessories. The accessory chapter is the longest chapter in the book.
Have you done the program as written? Texas method after?
>squat and deadlift on the same day
lolwut, have you never done a strength program or are you just moronic?
I wanna throw up after doing either of those, doing both on the same day would be way too fatiguing for your cardio-vascular system and the spine
You're a pussy
I just do SS forever.
LOL. You're a total pussy.
If you can do them on the same day then you aren't lifting hard enough
b***h you don't even do 5 rep sets and you're talking about "lifting hard" lmao
5 reps is easy 1x5 dl is for weaklings. You just don't put in any effort
Deadlift 800lbs 1x5 and film it right now.
You first
Yeah that's what I thought. So much for 5 reps being easy, kiddo.
That's what I thought. Some of us go to the gym to actually lift, not take vids to tiktok. DYEL?
>uhmm I uh do uh stuff haha
Fricking lol. Stay btfo.
U mad? U mad
>I just do SS forever.
Except you're not. If you were you would have moved to intermediate programming already
So it has you benching once per week, pressing twice, and then alternating power cleans and DL in phase 3? Hm
benching, pressing and squatting frequency remain constant through all phases. the only thing that changes is deadlift frequency
What’s the thought process behind pressing twice per week and alternating DL’s for powercleans? Bill Starr’s ( A man who has demonstrated actual feats of strength btw) OG program has you benching twice per week.
>What’s the thought process behind pressing twice per week
Rippts like OHP because it was THE feat of strength back in the days at the olympics. I would rather bench twice or add a day with incline bench or weighted dips.
>and alternating DL’s for powercleans?
At some point you just cant squat everyday and DL heavy. And squats will build your DL, so you better squating.
You bench and press both 1.5 times a week you moron. You alternate the work out days. ABAxx, BABxx.
Phew I had a killer workout today. I benched 0.5 times. Hbu?
Imagine paying for a gym membership to do 3 exercises 3 days a week
>Imagine paying for a gym membership to work out effectively and get bigger and stronger
I don't understand the issue. Do you use the gym as a social club so you're disappointed you don't waste more time there?
picrel is a typical body after SS
>makes you a fat weak powershitter
nothing personal, kid
>starting strength for 2-6 months depending on how you feel and if your lifts are stalling
>once you've reached your SS peak you will either:
>1. View lifting as a chore/a means to an end/a enjoyable time. 99% of people.
>2. Have completely fallen in love with lifting and want number on bar to go up and want to compete in Strongman etc.. 1% of people.
>Regardless, you now have a solid foundation to build upon
>(If you are Person 1. You are now lifting for aesthetics.)
>If you can be at the gym everyday then do a 6-day PPL routine.
>If you're a busy person and can only be at the gym by sticking to a certain schedule each week then do a PHUL routine.
>If you're a busy person and can never be certain of when you can make it to the gym then do a bro split.
>(If you are Person 2. You're actually lifting for strength)
>Move on to the Texas Method.
Remember, there's nothing wrong with lifting for aesthetics.
And, unless you're competing in Strongman/Powerlifting competitions:
You're not lifting for strength, you're just lifting for aesthetics badly.
this is so true. after ss i'll probably do a 3 day full body upper lower split
>only good advice in the thread goes completely ignored
This is IST after all, people have little interest in sensible down to earth reasoning and would rather defend extremist moronic views whether it goes for politics or fitness
GreySkull LP is better
I wasted like 7 years because I thought I was too smart. I thought I was an "intermediate", even an advanced lifter. I couldn't even deadlift 405 lmfao. I made more progress on SS in three months than I did in the previous 6 years.
OHP + shoulder and bicep stuff
Squat + quads and glutes stuff
Bench + chest and tricep stuff
Deadlift + back and hamstring stuff
Best balance of strength and aesthetics I've done
You're streching it a bit too far with OHP biceps aren't ya
I did it this way because I have to separate the quads and the hamstrings on different days. Hams don't get hit as much on strength programs. Plus shoulders and biceps makes sense, it's push pull.
itt 1 IQ gym bros thinking 100 reps of curls and skullcrushers with 15 lb dbs gonna make them stronger
ishiggydiggy
cool anime story fatty bro
That guy on the left probably has 80lbs more muscle than the guy on the right. Look at his quads, they're fricking massive. He just happens to also be a fatfrick.
>He just happens to also be a fatfrick
He doesn't just HAPPEN to, that's the pont. Unless you put a shit ton of fat on you, it's almost biomechanically impossible to squat that much using the SS fatfrick method. And most guys obviously don't want that.
Yeah bro I heard fat really helps on the squat
moron. Even homosexual Rip admits this.
He does “admit” anything. He even says it’s a stupid question, he does say that as you gain muscle mass you’re going to gain some fat to go with it. He doesn’t say you need a visible gut to squat 4pl8
>He doesn’t say you need a visible gut to squat 4pl8
You're really into denial aren't ya. If even this doesn't convince you then nothing will
?si=-BSzJPrXSUD04Quh&t=420
>uh yeah you need to gain weight to gain muscle
>wow mark rippetoe just said we all need to be fat bastards to be strong
>you need to be big to lift big
Uh yeah? This isn't an anime. Being big and heavy is essentially always an advantage in strength. He's giving a pragmatic answer to guys asking "how do I get as strong as possible".
You are right. I was answering to the moron her
who still thinks he won't gain a big disgusting gut you do what Rip says.
>5'9 205 is too skinny
I swear SS has really become a mental illness on par with troony shit.
I swear SS has
If you’re an advanced lifter and you’ve completely stalled, there really is no way to keep going except add mass. This does not mean SS makes you fat.
I legitimately am convinced you don't lift now. Do you even squat at all?
SS is okay, my biggest problem is the low volume for upperbody lifts. 3x5 for alternating bench and OHP is not nearly enough.
Volume is meaningless. Do you even bench 2 plate?
My current bench is 150kg, I stalled at 90kg on SS and couldn't break through it until I added shit ton of more work.
If you're stalling below 2 plate that has nothing to do with the "lack of volume".
>Increase volume
>bench increases a lot
woah, didn't have to get fat either
I'm sure that was the only two variables. Woah.
What two variables are you talking about? I just said increasing volume helped my bench a lot and got out of my SS plateau. That is just one variable.
You SS cultists are just silly.
>being this dull
Obviously there was more to it than "lol I did more volume and magically put 132lbs on my bench haha."
But that's what I did. Lifting isn't rocket science. When you stall ,you add more work.
>Lol no. It needs progressive overload. Don't tell me you believe in the "heckin confuse the muscle!!" moronation
That's why SS method has produced so many elite power/weight lfiters, right?
Every single elite strongman and powerlifter uses progressive overload.
Yeah, I bet they just did 3x5 and added 2.5 kilos every workout. They have peridiodized plans where they go trough phases of certain thresholds of work. Usually going from high volume low intensity to low volume high intensity, after they peak they do it again.
Jesus christ you guys are moronic. Enjoy your plateaus.
>They have peridiodized plans where they go trough phases of certain thresholds of work
So deloading. Just like SS 🙂
doing 3x5 with 10% less is't a new stimulus, it's less work and does absolutely nothing for you. You should be adding sets then.
It's a recovery phase you moronic frick lmao. So when you hit the same weight you deloaded from you'll be much fresher.
Have you never deloaded before? Do you even lift?
>So when you hit the same weight you deloaded from you'll be much fresher.
And then what happens? You suddently adapt to the stimulus you stalled on before? That makes no sense, only way to keep progressing at that point is to get fat which rip also advocates.
>You suddently adapt to the stimulus you stalled on before
Yes lmfao. Do you even lift? After resting your body you will be stronger. You can't just linearly increase in strength forever, your body needs a time to rest.
So you deload 10%, do LESS work for two weeks, gain absolutely nothing from it, work up to your old plateau while accumulating new fatigue without giving your body any reason to adapt.
I understand you just started lifting a month ago and just found SS. You'll learn kiddo.
>So you deload 10%, do LESS work for two weeks, gain absolutely nothing from it
You're maintaining strength while lightening the workload to allow recovery.
>while accumulating new fatigue
That fatigue won't be nearly as much as it was previously.
You don't lift.
You need novel stress for your recovery to do anything.
SS culbreasts are silly and fat
>You need novel stress for your recovery to do anything
Lol. No. Many people break through their plateau just fine.
Holy frick are you stupid? Yes, your body recovers and you have added calories, you will be stronger. Some people really should be euthanized
The number of people who think starting strength is the same two workout progression is incredible. Read the book morons.
So many of you didn’t read Starting Strength in it’s entirely and it really shows.
The problem with SS hate is that most of the people never read the book. The program is tailored for a very specific group of noobs, most of the people have no business running it in the first place.
>>2023
Strength by Mark Rippetoe is still the best program for beginners that want to gain mass and strength
Is that bad?
Those legs look huge.
Yes, it is bad.
He'd unironically look better with smaller legs. The oversized legs just draw more attention to how small he is everywhere else. There's no proper symmetry here.
I need to read a book to start lifting?
5x5 is a great filter.
That is all.
You guys are a bunch of morons. You should absolute increase your volume while doind SS, add some accessories, variations and back off sets.
This is how SS should look like after some time:
Monday - Workout A
Squats - 3x5 1x8
Bench - 3x5 1x8
Row - 3x5 1x8
*Dips - 2 x 8-15
*GHR - 2 x 12-15
*Abs
Wednesday - Workout B
Front Squats - 3x5 1x8
Standing Press - 3x5 1x8
DL 1x5 1x8 / RDL 3x5 1x8
*Pullups/chins - 2xF
*Abs
Friday - Workout A
Squats - 3x5 1x8
Incline - 3x5 1x8
Wgt. Chins - 3x5 1x8
*Dips - 2 x 8-15
*Curls - 2 x 8-12
*TriEx - 2 x 8-12
Just read:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224&p=13263336#post13263336 and
https://startingstrengthmirror.fandom.com/wiki/After_Starting_Strength
Better yet, do Greyskull LP style, with AMRAP on last set and milk your deloads.
>Last set
Your first set should be your last set and taken to failure.
Back squat is inferior to front squat.
Still have yet to see a single person that looks good after doing this program and I've been on here for a while.
ss never worked for me because after a certain amount of linear progression my lifts stall, up my calories and gradually build up strength but then it kills my back doing squats every workout.
Fix your form
Yeah, working on getting the squat, bp and deadlift right before trying again. I do like the basic premise that ss outlines where 5 reps at near max effort regularly increasing the weight is the most effective way tax your muscles and to gain strength, If i had the ability to easily squat 3plate bench press 225 or even 3 plate I wouldn't even bother with ss and jump into a brosplit, unfortunately i am a skinnyfat lanklet at 235, 6'2" My bench stalled at 220, ohp 150, squat at 305 and deadlift at 315. Eating enough calories is another problem too.
once you are finished with LP gains you move on. it's not called Forever Strength
Should I reach 1/2/3/4 before moving on from SS?
>Have done SS for nine months while bulking slowly, also haven't gotten the hang of power cleans
post your clean
Can't do that at the moment.
I'll do that in the future though.
Good man
I can give some simplistic advice at the worst
Are you at least close? Most men should get at least close to those on SS after 9 months.
you move on when it stops being linear progression. as long as you sleep and eat well enough to allow normal recovery once it stops working you should move on. there is no set number threshold as this shit is highly individual.
Yeah if you want to be a fat frick with a herniated disk
As sad as it is that he has gone crazy post-COVID, his detractors are way more annoying.
Whether it is the Sodomite Matt Vena or Natural Hypertrophy shitting on him; his beginner program really changed my life.
I remember what it was like before the internet. I got a gym membership, and a "free program" from the trainers; 10 different exercises to do as a "beginner" program with all sorts of idiotic exercises (it literally started with a Lunge for 8-10 reps). I was 18 at the time and couldn't even press the 35lb bar FFS. I had literally no improvements except for my traps. Not to mention, I eventually stopped doing that shit workout, how the frick do you progress any of those early 2000s meme lifts anyways?
Squat, Bench, Deadlift and OHP was a very, very much needed simplification. At one point, I would ONLY do Squats (as that is all I had time for during my work lunch break); but I kept going to the gym.
A lot of you won't believe this, but the squat racks used to be empty, if they were even there. Now, even the shittiest gym has at least one rack.
based
(I should mention that I'm a complete hypocrite as I only do NH programs now, but his takedown of Rippoetoe is not based on the context in which his programs got so much uptake in the first place.)
Rippetoe is the reason we're all lifting
It was a totally fringe activity before him
it's based beyond belief
just throw in some curls, rippetoe recommends this in the gym anyway
was watching a guy talk about how to get strong tendons, ligaments etc.
basically it was 3x5 and isometrics.
my arse pull theory was doing light weight for lots of reps would be the best thing for connective tissue. good to know i am a moron.
NH always delivers
>do SS
>making gainz like a madman
>heaviest i've ever been
>feeling near a plateau
>pop my knee playing sand volleyball
fricking ligaments cant keep up