powerlifters are ridiculous and most SS newbies really want a bodybuilding program they just don’t know this so they stick to SS for five years and spend more time defending it than actually lifting. But a program that encourages you to eat like a pig and do 3 hours of lifting a week is going to lure in a lot of gluttonous morons.
Pretty sure most teens and young men want good bodies to attract women and feel confident not to simply get their core compound lifts up. The SS fanboys lardass cult brings them into their fold, encourages them by saying aesthetics (and health) don’t matter and the rest is history.
>no pic
It's not a time thing. That's the ultimate dyel signal when they think building muscle is a time thing for the gym. If you spend 1 hour it's strength but 3 hours it's hypertrophy, you do not know what you're talking about. I don't care what your zoomer eceleb says, he's wrong.
>an identifiable pic online
Do you have plenty of identifiable tattoos or are you a pussy making excuses? Not the other guy btw
5 months ago
Anonymous
I don’t post any potentially identifiable pics. Look at pimeye and how AI is advancing. Your body is unique and absolutely can be identifiable. I come here for anonymity and I actually have a great career and reason to stay private. Hence when the argument turns to “post pics” I say no. Never going to happen might as well ask me to post my ID and SSN. Then again zoomers don’t get privacy.
>Time in gym is clearly correlated with muscle growth
pretty much this.
Unless you are doing PPL (moron) you are going to spend at least 2 hours per session training and thay accounts you supersetting your accessories (i mean lat pulldowns+ cable flys, not moronic 2010 youtube shit)
5 months ago
Anonymous
What is the moronic 2010 YouTube shit you speak of?
He got stronger in a year than you did in 5 years
Starting Strength is popular because it's simple and you make progress each time
There's also nothing stopping from you doing a few isolation exercises for fun afterwards
Strength isn’t the only priority of mine though. Aesthetics and health are realistically more important for most people and OP’s mutt might have impressive numbers but he looks like a dyel fatty and his overall health has probably not increased much because of his SS-induced diet and I can only assume no cardio. He’s a teen so he has plenty of room for error and time to correct and I’m not going to hate on a teen for this either, good for him and all that.
But unless you’re a professional power lifter it doesn’t make sense to sacrifice aesthetics and health for raw numbers. Aesthetics will reap far more rewards (mate attraction, self confidence, professional advancement) than strength alone. Yes you can come up with little strength survival scenarios but most successful people in the first world aren’t getting in fights or having to deadlift a log that rolled on their best friend. Of course bodybuilding increases strength but not as much as power lifting, so it isn’t an and/or thing except when it comes to power lifters who almost always look like shit and have poorer cardiovascular health.
News flash: any lifter looks like shit after 6 months. But unlike hypertrophy dyel twigs like you he actually looks (and is) strong after that half year.
>you make progress each time
But you don't. Some people come to the gym with enough muscle to bench 2pl8 and work up to it by following the program (growing no muscle). Others stall at 1pl8 and simply can't progress at all without switching something up (more volume, isolations and accessories)
Pretty average bait, but just because other morons in this thread will believe you: you work up to close to your max on your first session and start from there.
You realise that adding 2.5/5lbs each session to a bench press is also a means of increasing total volume? Yet people can't do this? The people who have a shit bench on SS usually have bad technique or are simply not eating enough to recover and grow.
Pretty average bait, but just because other morons in this thread will believe you: you work up to close to your max on your first session and start from there.
>you work up to close to your max on your first session and start from there.
No you don't. That's not how your nervous system works, it's impossible for an untrained person to go into a gym and lift anywhere near their max in a single session. Have you never heard of peaking?
You make most of your beginner gains through learning the movement and improving your motor patterns, not through building muscle.
You can't be any more stupid, this has to be bait or you are a fricking DYEL zoomie. You will build muscle if you get stronger, it is not entirely the result of becoming more efficient even when you are a beginner, literally a shit tier blatantly not true non-lifter take.
You're incorrect and are just revealing how completely ignorant of training methodology and human physiology you are. Literally every competitive lifter "gets stronger" (i.e. demonstrates their strength more effectively) in the run up to a meet while not gaining a single pound. Dyel?
5 months ago
Anonymous
>you: a competitive lifter is the same as a beginner with no strength training experience
5 months ago
Anonymous
The effect is even more pronounced in inexperienced lifters, you sperg. You doing understand how strength works and are embarrassing yourself
5 months ago
Anonymous
Thanks for confirming that you think someone who goes from a 0.5pl8 squat to a 4pl8 squat for five reps gains negligible amounts of muscle. I accept your concession. Feel free to cope and seethe.
checked anon but i'm ngl, i still think the correct path for 90% of beginners in the gym is the 3 month 4 day program, the only people who disagree in this thread are legitimately sub 1yr lifting pajeets who only know what the program is from what they've read on IST.
Genuinely, all of the other fricking LP programs advertised to beginners are filled with superfluous bullshit that takes 2+ hours to complete, probably even longer for a beginner, and then it's like, you do GZCLP or example and it's got you in the gym doing your 65lb bench 5x3, and then your 55lb squat 3x10 and then your even more pathetic bent over row for sets of 25+... Like what's the fricking point? So that you can get just as strong as you would if you did starting strength, and just added some chin ups and curls? Maybe some cable rows?
Starting strength is 3 movements that takes an hour to finish, gets you strong, teaches you the basics in the gym, and gives you confidence.
It’s a shame Rippetoe has just become another grifter charging 400$ to tell noobs to do sets of 5 on SBD, because like you said SS is great no bullshit way to get started.
I guess when he gained internet popularity he just couldn’t resist the grift money.
eh it is what it is man, everyone is out there just trying to get a bag. Honestly, at least he's charging people a bunch of money and they're getting strong in the gym. He could be selling get rich quick courses. He COULD just be a leech. I'd say it's a net positive in the world even if it's expensive.
And if you read the SS forums or listen to his podcast, he acts like proper SBD technique is super arcane knowledge that only a certified SS coach can show you how to properly do. Oh and if you fail or have any critiques about the programming at all , you’re not doing the program. It’s a nice little grift he’s got going on.
He got stronger in a year than you did in 5 years
Starting Strength is popular because it's simple and you make progress each time
There's also nothing stopping from you doing a few isolation exercises for fun afterwards
Its a powerlifting thing but most people lift for aesthetics and not strength
Imagine being so fricking moronic you think this passes as “bait”. You’re supposed to do SS for a month, maybe a couple at most if you keep progressing. And the workout takes maybe 90 minutes at the most.
He's three times as strong as you and looks bigger. If you're whining about the fat, then he can cut that off within months and still be three times as strong and bigger than you while being low body fat.
>then he can cut that off within months
He CAN, but he more than likely won't.
Also it's really not healthy yo-yoing back and forth on your body composition like that.
That's ok though, I'll settle for merely being stronger than "only" 95% of gym-goers instead of 99%, AND looking good. Cope and seethe, fatass.
Post body. You're weaker than people that lifted for only three months and nobody would think that you lift when you're wearing clothing. Doesn't sound worth the effort, to be honest.
>muh toxic levels of testosterone
im so sick of this baseless arguement. "ohh noo he is a teenager he has 987543352 ng/dl test levels and he can build gorillion lbs of muscle mass!!!!
Not only is it fricking wrong on every level but its not even the peak of your test levels. you will build so much more muscle when you are an adult than when you are a boy. its just an iq difference at that point as well and your diet is not controlled by your parents etc.
and even if we pretend that teenagers have higher test levels the difference would be marginal at most. It's supraphysiological levels vs like 500. It would be 600 vs 500 aka no difference.
How is this dude squatting mid 400s after half a year though? Even Rip's examples have a lifter coming out of a 5/6 month SS routine with just a 3pl8 squat.
I have never heard of SS before IST. I don't think anyone actually follows it irl
Before lifting was an tiktok fad and every zoomer was in the gym your options were SS, GZCLP, redditppl or like, greyskullLP or some shit. Way to out yourself.
nta, but same experience. i played sports and learned through that. first i heard of rippetoe was IST
and for good reason. why people listened to him was always confusing. younger generation has figured out he's a charlatan
The vast majority of people don't have the background in sports to be able to go to the gym, and know what to do, and they might not have someone to teach them how to do it.
I'm not saying you need to pay the $500 a month or whatever ridiculous price they're paying for the classes itself, when you could just pickup a copy of the book, but that being said it's an easy way to get beginners in the gym. you're not even supposed to do it for longer than a few months. >he's a charlatan
be honest, are you the OP and trying to bait people?
im not op and im not bait.
the way he teaches things is fundamentally wrong. high hip cleans/snatches, bent over goodmorning squats? not correct
on programming, he has the feud with the westside and rpe groups and shits on them all the time. he'll say things like it isn't impressive to get gifted people totalling 2000lbs stronger compared to what they do with SS, when its really the opposite. Its very hard to add pounds to advanced lifters. You can pretty much do anything to get a beginner stronger if they cmgo to the gym consistently.
at the end of the day, just look at where SS people using mark's methods cap out at (5pl8/3pl8/6pl8) then look at what someone like mike t or joey flexx or greg panora or matt wenning are producing.
ehhh yeah I mean i can see where you're coming from with your post now. I thought you were implying 3x5 just didn't work or something... I still don't think he's a charlatan though, that feels like to strong of a word. maybe stuck in his ways, or hardheaded perhaps. never attribute to malice what can be attribute to stupidity, and all that.
5 months ago
Anonymous
when you charge 455 a month for a gym with only class time access, barbells, and this guy to coach you, its snake oil tier. sure 3x5 add 5lbs works for beginners, anything really does.
the problem is selling and marketing it as some kind of premium/magic thing. these prices are more than what thor's coach cost, the guy who trained him to win wsm and get the 501kg deadlift record
What’s even being argued here because I’m getting confused, it’s literally called “starting strength”. Is Rip really arguing anyone except for people with a sub 1k total should be doing SS? Does he not understand his own program?
he gets upset when anyone says ss is just a powerlifting program, and copes by calling it strength training. he needs to keep ss separated and unique so fools still fall for it.
power cleans are based and fun. what're you, a b***h? It's also not introduced for like, a month.
powercleans for the average person is pretty pointless to their goals. no, the 60 year old grandma doesn't need 3x5 squats and powercleans and gomad.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>powercleans for the average person is pretty pointless to their goals. no, the 60 year old grandma doesn't need 3x5 squats and powercleans and gomad.
Anon, pointless to the goal of getting strong? It's an explosive full body compound? >grandma doesn't ne-
oh you're just baiting.
>There's also nothing stopping from you doing a few isolation exercises for fun afterwards
Apart from rippetoad and his cultists scream "YNDTP!!!"
You didn't read the book.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>oh you're just baiting.
its not bait, go look at their youtube page and see what they're doing with these people. its squats and oats from ages 7 through 70
the great thing about rip and ss is you don't have to make up shit to show how ridiculous they are. just use they're own content
5 months ago
Anonymous
>didn’t read the book >tried to critique it >looks like a moron
many such cases!
>didn't read the book
I've read SS and practical programming but not in the last decade. I know there's some vague mention of accessories but in reality (or the SS forums at least) rip whines about anyone doing anything other than squats, deadlift, bench, "the press" and rows. He doesn't seem to even really like benching. From what I recall the main focus of accessories in SS was stuff like chins and dips, not shit that's actually good for aesthetics like leg extensions, lateral raises, cable flies, etc. Rip hates that shit and you know that as well as I do.
5 months ago
Anonymous
And yes, I meant cleans not rows. I'm thinking of SL obviously. The book does say rows are an acceptable alternative for cleans in special cases like older lifters though, which is another thing where rip's sperging contradicts the books.
5 months ago
Anonymous
dips are not in SS you fricking mong, stop spreading disinformation
5 months ago
Anonymous
So you're admitting I was right in the first place then and this anon
He got stronger in a year than you did in 5 years
Starting Strength is popular because it's simple and you make progress each time
There's also nothing stopping from you doing a few isolation exercises for fun afterwards
that said: >There's also nothing stopping from you doing a few isolation exercises for fun afterwards
is wrong.
I must be thinking of practical programming. There's a list of approved accessories in one of the books, but my point is that rip/ss doesn't approve of just adding accessories for aesthetics and you've just agreed with me.
5 months ago
Anonymous
I misunderstood. Rip doesn't approve, especially not for something as big as dips which can interfere with pressing. I think aside from chin-ups, the only accessory he has ever seemed to turn a blind eye to are curls, and has recommended just doing them for 3x10 once or twice per week if you are going to do them anyway.
5 months ago
Anonymous
I also don't know who is actually doing SS and adding a bunch of their own shit. Anyone who advocates for that is either someone who doesn't lift or who hasn't done SS (most of IST). SS becomes brutal as the weights get harder but very effective if you are trying to do it right, the problem is that a lot of people don't bother viewing the books, the SS articles, or any other SS media tbh. I was one of them but I took a long break and recently returned to lifting, followed SS, ignored all of the other IST shit and tried to adhere to all of the teachings pretty strictly and I have made massive progress. I'm pulling mid 400s with ease, it's incredible, 2x bw for reps on a beginner program tbh.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>IF YOU JUST FOLLOW THE PROGRAM AND BUY MY
BOOK YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOURE MISSING OUT ON REEEEE
Another one of those days hey Mark?
5 months ago
Anonymous
You are getting turbomogged by people who do it right for a few months when it will take you five years.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Exactly my point.
I also don't know who is actually doing SS and adding a bunch of their own shit. Anyone who advocates for that is either someone who doesn't lift or who hasn't done SS (most of IST). SS becomes brutal as the weights get harder but very effective if you are trying to do it right, the problem is that a lot of people don't bother viewing the books, the SS articles, or any other SS media tbh. I was one of them but I took a long break and recently returned to lifting, followed SS, ignored all of the other IST shit and tried to adhere to all of the teachings pretty strictly and I have made massive progress. I'm pulling mid 400s with ease, it's incredible, 2x bw for reps on a beginner program tbh.
Yeah, I fell for the SS meme like 15 years ago and bought the book on Amazon because it wasn't all over the internet like it is not. I fricked around with it for years off and on before realising it's just a shitty program. I unironically got better results (aesthetically) switching to a brosplit.
5 months ago
Anonymous
SS has a huge section on assistance lifts including chins and dips. Rip likes them both. He's even made SS instruction videos on dips specifically and wants people to add them in if they don't hurt their shoulders. Did you actually read the book? You'd know this even if you didn't just from some basic Googling.
Exactly my point.
[...]
Yeah, I fell for the SS meme like 15 years ago and bought the book on Amazon because it wasn't all over the internet like it is not. I fricked around with it for years off and on before realising it's just a shitty program. I unironically got better results (aesthetically) switching to a brosplit.
If you tried doing the program for years, then you never did the program. Blame your own illiteracy and moronation instead.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Your fellow SS advocate claims otherwise:
dips are not in SS you fricking mong, stop spreading disinformation
Like I said, I last read the books over a decade ago. I'm familiar with an accessories section but I also know full well that Rip does not advocate adding accessories on top of SS. Quite the opposite. >you never did the program
Yeah, this is the standard SS cope. Any criticism of SS is met with this response, when the truth is it's just a shitty program that doesn't work unless you bloatmax.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, and he's wrong. Why not search for the .pdf and ctrl-f it yourself? Or maybe you like this: https://startingstrength.com/training/how-to-do-dips >cope
Anon, the program explicitly states that it only works for beginners and that you should have reached your limit by 6 months. How can you defend morons that try to force progress by staying on the program for years on end? There are only a few simple questions you need to ask, and if you stop progressing after failing just a few sessions in a row then you're simply done. This is not the same as saying that someone that added in assistance X didn't do the program; this is an actual major deviation.
This.
[...] >you work up to close to your max on your first session and start from there.
No you don't. That's not how your nervous system works, it's impossible for an untrained person to go into a gym and lift anywhere near their max in a single session. Have you never heard of peaking?
Not engaging with weak bait anymore.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>How can you defend morons that try to force progress by staying on the program for years on end?
I never said I did the program for years on end, you illiterate moron. I said: >I fricked around with it for years off and on
You literally have <100 iq, which is probably why you simp for a program everyone knows is shit. You think moronic things like a non-lifter can walk into a gym and do a 5 rep max with no prior lifting experience and that it's impossible for your demonstrable strength to improve without gaining muscle. Even rip would call you a dumbass for that.
5 months ago
Anonymous
There, there. I'm not the moron with weak will power that does a program sometimes, and then sometimes not, but still over a period of years. Did you actually do the program properly, or did you just do a week or two of SS-style training with 6 month breaks? >5rm "gotcha"
Anon, a PR always implies a PR with your current technique. Even someone that has lifted for half a year couldn't do a 5rm (or rather, a 3x5rm), because their technique is still developing. Not only that, I said "near their max". They work up to the point that their form starts collapsing. >but if they had perfect form then some of them could've benched 2 plates day 1
Heh.
Post lifts?
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Did you actually do the program properly, or did you just do a week or two of SS-style training with 6 month breaks?
The former. At my peak doing SS I had a deadlift of 220kg for 1x5 and still looked dyel. Once I started doing a brosplit I immediately started looking like I actually lifted. >Anon, a PR always implies a PR with your current technique.
I didn't say PR and you're trying to move the goalposts. The anon that originally brought up this point was correctly explaining that SS basically peaks your existing strength to closer to it's full potential, as opposed to actually building muscle.
Thanks for confirming that you think someone who goes from a 0.5pl8 squat to a 4pl8 squat for five reps gains negligible amounts of muscle. I accept your concession. Feel free to cope and seethe.
>Thanks for confirming that you think someone who goes from a 0.5pl8 squat to a 4pl8 squat for five reps
Most people aren't interested in training muscle on their glutes and no-where else. Most people never achieve a 4pl8 squat on SS either anyway.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>claims to get a deadlift that's twice as strong as what most morons on dumb hypertrophy programs will ever get while on a BEGINNERS program that you should run for just a few months. >still complains
If you actually lifted and went to a gym you'd realize how few people even get close to doing 220 for 5. >Once I started doing a brosplit I started looking like I lift
Yes, you fricking moron. That's the entire point. You do the beginner strength program to get good base strength and size (and thus muscle) and then you can switch to the moron split after to round it all out. You can not do the opposite. >Peaks your strength closer to your full potential
Yes anon, sure, you already had that 220x5 deadlift in you when you started the program. And when you quit the program all that muscle and strength just vanished. Thankfully your brosplit revitalized you, right?
Wait, I just actually fell for bait, didn't I?
5 months ago
Anonymous
>If you actually lifted and went to a gym you'd realize how few people even get close to doing 220 for 5.
We're talking about aesthetics moron. And the reason I got to that wasn't from SS it was from what I did when I wasn't doing SS. >Once I started doing a brosplit I started looking like I lift >Yes, you fricking moron. That's the entire point. You do the beginner strength program to get good base strength and size (and thus muscle) and then you can switch to the moron split after to round it all out. You can not do the opposite.
What a fricking cope. You're just admitting SS is shit for aesthetics now, which you've been denying up until now. >Yes anon, sure, you already had that 220x5 deadlift in you when you started the program. And when you quit the program all that muscle and strength just vanished. Thankfully your brosplit revitalized you, right?
A regular guy can probably has the muscle mass to pull 180kg after peaking.. The extra 40kg could burst have easily have been from the training I was doing in between SS runs as SS itself. In any case 220kg isn't hugely impressive and I lift more than that now since ditching SS and barely even train deadlift.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>does beginners program, stops progressing, switches to different program >months of training later goes back to.. the program explicitly for untrained novices that should be ran for a few months at best
Why? Think up some good bait to that question, will you? >You're just admitting SS is shit for aesthetics now
No, I've been saying from the start that no lifter looks good after 6 months, but that the SS'er will look better because he has actual size and strength. >A regular guy can probably has the muscle mass to pull 180kg after peaking..
Even ChatGPT wouldn't think this up if you asked for some le epic troll material. >I lift more than that now since ditching SS and barely even train deadlift.
You say that you lift more than you did while on the 6 month beginner program? Thank god you do (you don't), because you'd have a problem otherwise.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Why?
Because I fell for the shilling from gays like you and that I hadn't exhausted my newbie gains yet. >Even ChatGPT wouldn't think this up if you asked for some le epic troll material.
You don't need a tremendous amount of muscle to lift 4pl8, anon. Go to a powerlifting meet for once in your life instead of larping as a lifter on the internet and you'll discover this yourself. >You say that you lift more than you did while on the 6 month beginner program? Thank god you do (you don't), because you'd have a problem otherwise.
The important thing is that I lift more than you.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Not a single person will tell you that you have newbie gains left in you after squatting three plates for reps, or deadlifting four plates for reps. Not even Rip. That's where he would expect lifters to switch to the TM, even. >You don't need a tremendous amount of muscle to lift 4pl8, anon.
Yes, which is why you see every lifter hit that weight in commercial gyms. It's literally something an office worker could do. Just need to channel that inner strength they're born with. Teach 'em some technique and get them warmed up.
Anon, we're talking about people that have lifted for 6 months and in that context 4 plates is very good. Objectively. >powerlifting meet
Wait, I thought you hated powerlifting? Give me another good story. >Lift more than you
Post body already.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Wait, I thought you hated powerlifting?
Where did you get that idea? I said SS wasa shitty program. There are better ones for powerlifting too. >Post body already.
Done. Your turn
5 months ago
Anonymous
Timestamp.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>Doesn't post body
What a surprise
5 months ago
Anonymous
Seriously? You use dude wipes?
5 months ago
Anonymous
squatting 5 plates does not require a lot of muscle.
Matter of fact you can have twig legs and squat 5pl8, all you need are somewhat decent glutes, the type of glutes that would get your friend to grab your ass.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Are these fatsos allergic to delts exercises or is the chest and fat hiding them
5 months ago
Anonymous
Terminally online fitizens are not the target demo for this. You don't coach a lot of people, so I'll remind you that for someone who hasn't done any exercise in 2 decades, going from 0 sets of volume to 10 sets/session is a dramatic increase, and they are terribly under-prepared to do the lifts. You're being charged that much for a very attentive staff who make sure you're doing the lift correctly. People's first exposure to a new activity greatly influences their trajectory with it. If your first language class is shit, you're likely not going to stick with it. You can learn it from duolingo, or a college level lecture with recitation. One of those groups has better long term outcomes. Believe it or not, that much money isn't that much for their target demo.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Using your own example, I am saying people are paying college level lecture with recitation prices for duolingo level of service at SS gyms >it or not, that much money isn't that much for their target demo.
its not the total amount of money thats the issue. its the quality of service for the price. you could go to any good bodybuilding/powerlifting/weightlifting/strongman/crossfit gym and get free form coaching that can easily be better than what sharting strength will teach you. requiring hands on for every rep means you have other issues and going right to >3x5 add 5lbs
isn't the answer
5 months ago
Anonymous
>duolingo level of service at SS gyms
You are just saying this without proving it. The service is charged at a premium because it frankly it is very good service. There is a rather difficult filtration process to weed out bad communicators who can't take a random person and have them moving to the best of their ability in one session. This is surprisingly hard, particularly given that the participant pool are the true motor morons / athletic dullards who need to attend.
>get free form coaching that can easily be better than what sharting strength will teach you
Are you sure? I don't think this is true, nor do most/all of our paying customers. The program is not the important part. It is a base level of volume that works for most people most of the time. The *service* they are providing in their coaching, that is the part you are paying for. They are very barebones gym. You are there for the people.
>requiring hands on for every rep means you have other issues
Yes? New lifters, particularly those they're working with, have many technical issues that get ironed out with careful attention. Often times this is not a contraindicator to add load, seeing that responsible loading calls for the lifter always air on the conservative side. 52 year old Doug going from 235 to 240 on his deadlift is not going to detract from his ability to gain technical proficiency in that lift. If it is, the loading call was too aggressive. This is a common misconception from like 10 years ago when everyone was grinding themselves into the dust without using their brain. IRL, at these gyms you are not killing people under 5 second @10 grinders. The loading calls are almost always conservative to allow for smooth, easy gains/learning.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Lol imagine meeting this guy and he tells you he’s a coach/personal trainer
What’s even being argued here because I’m getting confused, it’s literally called “starting strength”. Is Rip really arguing anyone except for people with a sub 1k total should be doing SS? Does he not understand his own program?
5 months ago
Anonymous
tbh it's just old ass rippetoe bellyaching in his old age about how it's harder to teach beginners and get them strong than it is for gifted lifters who go to westside (for example) to get even stronger. He's (Rippetoe) just coping.
5 months ago
Anonymous
He literally tells you a few months maximum in the book at most a year if you don’t stall. Most of IST hasn’t read the book and most their criticisms are them misunderstanding the program.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>having beginners do power cleans
5 months ago
Anonymous
power cleans are based and fun. what're you, a b***h? It's also not introduced for like, a month.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>literally says don’t do power cleans unless you have access to a coach
5 months ago
Anonymous
>acess to rippecoach >still learn it wrong
after what rippetoe said critiqued lasha's WR snatch, i don't know how anyone can take the guy seriously on weightlifting movements
i was squatting 5pl8 in sleeves year one with SS and after that a wave LP.
I injured myself shortly after.
I had bigger legs than 99% of fit just from running and sports tho.
if he needs the strength he got from following SS, be it powerlifting, football, martial arts etc. then very good for him, very good progress
if he just wanted to get fit and/or attract females... KWAB
When I started lifting I actually wanted to do SS but I just didn't get it. The website looked like a MLM course and the actual program was nowhere to be found.
And I am not buying a gay ass book just to start weightlifting.
So I ended up doing some random PPL routine I found on youtube and I think I was better off for it
You were better off, but that's because of who you are and not because of the program. Sub-100iq people who don't put in effort doing the bare amount of research always end up failing around on the program for over a year.
You people are clueless if you think there is some 'other' program he could do that would make him look different.
Like if he had done more dumbbell flies then his physique would look drastically more attractive
That isn't how it works. He grew his muscles a bunch. That's all a routine can do.
You probably bench 135 doing “pump training” and also look like shit. Anyone would rather look bad and be strong than look like shit and be weak like you.
Yes but now he’s fat, ugly, and out of shape.
He probably couldn’t run a mile in less than twelve minutes.
I don’t exercise to make myself fat, ugly, and out of shape so…
something isn’t “based” just because people argue about it passionately. people can argue about something and it can still suck.
I bet you’re a trump voter.
I literally work for starting strength. I am an SSC. Most of the discourse around this is really off base. If you go to a beginners piano recital, and smugly say 'ha, seems like everyone around here has a shitty tutor, they can barely play this instrument' YOU have the problem, not them.
OP clocks him lifting at 6-7 months. What do you expect someone to look like whose been lifting for that long? It will likely take him a few years to build a physique, since that's how long it takes literally everyone. Sure, you can get a twink lean in a year and have him be lean at 155. Who cares. He will be 170 in 3 years whereas this kid, if he plays his cards right, will be 195-205 at a similar leanness in 3 years. >But he could have lost fat in this half a year!!!
Do you think this is hyper critical in a 3-5 year physique building process, that he optimizes for fat loss in the first half of a year? He's gotten stronger and built muscle mass. Those are the two current win conditions for beginner training.
Starting Strength is a book detailing arguments about why to do the lifts a certain way, and how to address your first few months of training. Practical Programing contains arguments for how to address broader programming. 'SS' isn't a powerlifting program. Go learn a language or an instrument. Your beginner texts are likely very much the same.
The problem is that there are multiple examples of the noob SS bloat archetype and even a lot of the SSC’s just look like fat neck beard guys but without any particularly impressive comp results or lifts. So that’s a problem that should probably be addressed
I'm one of the few SSCs involved in high level athletics. Most of my clientelle are also athletes, and I am still getting after it actively. I do not work at an SS gym. The average person at the SS gym is on, or nearing the other side of 50 and will consider it a huge lifetime accomplishment to pull a set at 315, allowing them to have greatly increased quality of life.
Your physical appearance or genetic allotment on strength has no bearing on your ability to teach a middle aged man how to squat and deadlift. Think about what you're saying. This is the first 2 years of learning the piano. Do you need your tutor to be an accomplished orchestra player? The primary attribute is understanding the material, and being able to communicate that in a customer/client facing environment.
I started browsing fit literally over a decade ago and started working with SS I think 3 years ago. Get fricked. You being wrong doesn't make me a shill. The gyms actually pull business away from the independent coaches.
Get defensive all you want but it makes sense how people irrationally defend SS here. Almost as if they’re being paid to do it.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>people irrationally defend SS here
How is it 'irrational.' Because you disagree with it? I defend SS and I don't get paid.
5 months ago
Anonymous
You know IST has had the banner with the guy's ass on the cover of the book for years right. Here before you were, here after you're gone gay.
how do you like being ssc
It's p cool. For this field, I make a whole lot of money and most of the work is done remotely. Various in person form touchups for hard cases, various camps for my sport with lifting involved, and I get to larp as an athlete while living vicariously through my clients. The shitty part is working 365 no days off. I work through vacations and on my wedding. No one else can really cover since it's independent. Not that bad though, sometimes like 2-3 hours a day and I make like 80-90k depending on the year.
5 months ago
Anonymous
I kind of want to do it but don't know if I have the personality. Is it really that hard?
Just shows this guy has great strength genetics. It’s absolutely criminal that he’s being turned into a fatass instead of a stud. Rippetoe should be in prison.
>if only you knew how bad things really were
>Starting Strength
>Orlando
Anything else I can help you with?
powerlifters are ridiculous and most SS newbies really want a bodybuilding program they just don’t know this so they stick to SS for five years and spend more time defending it than actually lifting. But a program that encourages you to eat like a pig and do 3 hours of lifting a week is going to lure in a lot of gluttonous morons.
>they're not training long enough
Post physique.
Pretty sure most teens and young men want good bodies to attract women and feel confident not to simply get their core compound lifts up. The SS fanboys lardass cult brings them into their fold, encourages them by saying aesthetics (and health) don’t matter and the rest is history.
>no pic
It's not a time thing. That's the ultimate dyel signal when they think building muscle is a time thing for the gym. If you spend 1 hour it's strength but 3 hours it's hypertrophy, you do not know what you're talking about. I don't care what your zoomer eceleb says, he's wrong.
>post an identifiable pic online
Not even once
Time in gym is clearly correlated with muscle growth you’re a moron if you think otherwise.
>an identifiable pic online
Do you have plenty of identifiable tattoos or are you a pussy making excuses? Not the other guy btw
I don’t post any potentially identifiable pics. Look at pimeye and how AI is advancing. Your body is unique and absolutely can be identifiable. I come here for anonymity and I actually have a great career and reason to stay private. Hence when the argument turns to “post pics” I say no. Never going to happen might as well ask me to post my ID and SSN. Then again zoomers don’t get privacy.
>Time in gym is clearly correlated with muscle growth
pretty much this.
Unless you are doing PPL (moron) you are going to spend at least 2 hours per session training and thay accounts you supersetting your accessories (i mean lat pulldowns+ cable flys, not moronic 2010 youtube shit)
What is the moronic 2010 YouTube shit you speak of?
If you are not doing twice a day workouts you're ngmi.
The difference between dyels and ifbb pros is work ethic. Get your ass off the couch and go train again.
Eat sleep train repeat (take naps when necessary).
I'm srs. Eat more, train more, take more naps.
Gains through the roof.
He got stronger in a year than you did in 5 years
Starting Strength is popular because it's simple and you make progress each time
There's also nothing stopping from you doing a few isolation exercises for fun afterwards
Strength isn’t the only priority of mine though. Aesthetics and health are realistically more important for most people and OP’s mutt might have impressive numbers but he looks like a dyel fatty and his overall health has probably not increased much because of his SS-induced diet and I can only assume no cardio. He’s a teen so he has plenty of room for error and time to correct and I’m not going to hate on a teen for this either, good for him and all that.
But unless you’re a professional power lifter it doesn’t make sense to sacrifice aesthetics and health for raw numbers. Aesthetics will reap far more rewards (mate attraction, self confidence, professional advancement) than strength alone. Yes you can come up with little strength survival scenarios but most successful people in the first world aren’t getting in fights or having to deadlift a log that rolled on their best friend. Of course bodybuilding increases strength but not as much as power lifting, so it isn’t an and/or thing except when it comes to power lifters who almost always look like shit and have poorer cardiovascular health.
No one gives a shit about strength. He looks like shit
News flash: any lifter looks like shit after 6 months. But unlike hypertrophy dyel twigs like you he actually looks (and is) strong after that half year.
Post body.
He doesn't look strong. Why are you so vehemently defending this tubbo? You're a fatty yourself aren't you?
He looks incredibly strong for someone that's been lifting for 6 months. Post body already.
after u lardass
op's picrel looks like shit and the caption is made up for all i care for
ripplebreasts is a moron and so are you
>There's also nothing stopping from you doing a few isolation exercises for fun afterwards
Apart from rippetoad and his cultists scream "YNDTP!!!"
>didn’t read the book
>tried to critique it
>looks like a moron
many such cases!
>you make progress each time
But you don't. Some people come to the gym with enough muscle to bench 2pl8 and work up to it by following the program (growing no muscle). Others stall at 1pl8 and simply can't progress at all without switching something up (more volume, isolations and accessories)
Pretty average bait, but just because other morons in this thread will believe you: you work up to close to your max on your first session and start from there.
Linear progression doesn't work. Your body literally can't grow muscle that fast not even on steroids.
The morons here insisting they made gains on SS were probably just pussies who didn't go anywhere near their limit on the first try.
You make most of your beginner gains through learning the movement and improving your motor patterns, not through building muscle.
No shit, that's all SS is. It's just a modified football peaking program. You don't build muscle on it
You realise that adding 2.5/5lbs each session to a bench press is also a means of increasing total volume? Yet people can't do this? The people who have a shit bench on SS usually have bad technique or are simply not eating enough to recover and grow.
This.
>you work up to close to your max on your first session and start from there.
No you don't. That's not how your nervous system works, it's impossible for an untrained person to go into a gym and lift anywhere near their max in a single session. Have you never heard of peaking?
You can't be any more stupid, this has to be bait or you are a fricking DYEL zoomie. You will build muscle if you get stronger, it is not entirely the result of becoming more efficient even when you are a beginner, literally a shit tier blatantly not true non-lifter take.
You're incorrect and are just revealing how completely ignorant of training methodology and human physiology you are. Literally every competitive lifter "gets stronger" (i.e. demonstrates their strength more effectively) in the run up to a meet while not gaining a single pound. Dyel?
>you: a competitive lifter is the same as a beginner with no strength training experience
The effect is even more pronounced in inexperienced lifters, you sperg. You doing understand how strength works and are embarrassing yourself
Thanks for confirming that you think someone who goes from a 0.5pl8 squat to a 4pl8 squat for five reps gains negligible amounts of muscle. I accept your concession. Feel free to cope and seethe.
I have never heard of SS before IST. I don't think anyone actually follows it irl
12 years ago it was all over the internet. People used to act like it was impossible to make gains without doing it.
Never met someone irl who has done it though.
checked anon but i'm ngl, i still think the correct path for 90% of beginners in the gym is the 3 month 4 day program, the only people who disagree in this thread are legitimately sub 1yr lifting pajeets who only know what the program is from what they've read on IST.
Genuinely, all of the other fricking LP programs advertised to beginners are filled with superfluous bullshit that takes 2+ hours to complete, probably even longer for a beginner, and then it's like, you do GZCLP or example and it's got you in the gym doing your 65lb bench 5x3, and then your 55lb squat 3x10 and then your even more pathetic bent over row for sets of 25+... Like what's the fricking point? So that you can get just as strong as you would if you did starting strength, and just added some chin ups and curls? Maybe some cable rows?
Starting strength is 3 movements that takes an hour to finish, gets you strong, teaches you the basics in the gym, and gives you confidence.
It’s a shame Rippetoe has just become another grifter charging 400$ to tell noobs to do sets of 5 on SBD, because like you said SS is great no bullshit way to get started.
I guess when he gained internet popularity he just couldn’t resist the grift money.
eh it is what it is man, everyone is out there just trying to get a bag. Honestly, at least he's charging people a bunch of money and they're getting strong in the gym. He could be selling get rich quick courses. He COULD just be a leech. I'd say it's a net positive in the world even if it's expensive.
And if you read the SS forums or listen to his podcast, he acts like proper SBD technique is super arcane knowledge that only a certified SS coach can show you how to properly do. Oh and if you fail or have any critiques about the programming at all , you’re not doing the program. It’s a nice little grift he’s got going on.
Its a powerlifting thing but most people lift for aesthetics and not strength
Imagine being so fricking moronic you think this passes as “bait”. You’re supposed to do SS for a month, maybe a couple at most if you keep progressing. And the workout takes maybe 90 minutes at the most.
Looks like shit so who cares?
He's three times as strong as you and looks bigger. If you're whining about the fat, then he can cut that off within months and still be three times as strong and bigger than you while being low body fat.
Lmao
>then he can cut that off within months
He CAN, but he more than likely won't.
Also it's really not healthy yo-yoing back and forth on your body composition like that.
That's ok though, I'll settle for merely being stronger than "only" 95% of gym-goers instead of 99%, AND looking good. Cope and seethe, fatass.
Post body. You're weaker than people that lifted for only three months and nobody would think that you lift when you're wearing clothing. Doesn't sound worth the effort, to be honest.
you're a homosexual
whys it always high squat and deadlift numbers though?
How much can he bench and ohp? or row?
>455 a month to learn the lifts wrong
Ahhhh jeeez dude my wallet
>muh toxic levels of testosterone
im so sick of this baseless arguement. "ohh noo he is a teenager he has 987543352 ng/dl test levels and he can build gorillion lbs of muscle mass!!!!
Not only is it fricking wrong on every level but its not even the peak of your test levels. you will build so much more muscle when you are an adult than when you are a boy. its just an iq difference at that point as well and your diet is not controlled by your parents etc.
and even if we pretend that teenagers have higher test levels the difference would be marginal at most. It's supraphysiological levels vs like 500. It would be 600 vs 500 aka no difference.
In my early twenties and I'm putting on muscle much faster than i did as a teen. Same intensity, exercises, and diet
How is this dude squatting mid 400s after half a year though? Even Rip's examples have a lifter coming out of a 5/6 month SS routine with just a 3pl8 squat.
good genetics.
Before lifting was an tiktok fad and every zoomer was in the gym your options were SS, GZCLP, redditppl or like, greyskullLP or some shit. Way to out yourself.
out myself as what?
nta, but same experience. i played sports and learned through that. first i heard of rippetoe was IST
and for good reason. why people listened to him was always confusing. younger generation has figured out he's a charlatan
The vast majority of people don't have the background in sports to be able to go to the gym, and know what to do, and they might not have someone to teach them how to do it.
I'm not saying you need to pay the $500 a month or whatever ridiculous price they're paying for the classes itself, when you could just pickup a copy of the book, but that being said it's an easy way to get beginners in the gym. you're not even supposed to do it for longer than a few months.
>he's a charlatan
be honest, are you the OP and trying to bait people?
im not op and im not bait.
the way he teaches things is fundamentally wrong. high hip cleans/snatches, bent over goodmorning squats? not correct
on programming, he has the feud with the westside and rpe groups and shits on them all the time. he'll say things like it isn't impressive to get gifted people totalling 2000lbs stronger compared to what they do with SS, when its really the opposite. Its very hard to add pounds to advanced lifters. You can pretty much do anything to get a beginner stronger if they cmgo to the gym consistently.
at the end of the day, just look at where SS people using mark's methods cap out at (5pl8/3pl8/6pl8) then look at what someone like mike t or joey flexx or greg panora or matt wenning are producing.
ehhh yeah I mean i can see where you're coming from with your post now. I thought you were implying 3x5 just didn't work or something... I still don't think he's a charlatan though, that feels like to strong of a word. maybe stuck in his ways, or hardheaded perhaps. never attribute to malice what can be attribute to stupidity, and all that.
when you charge 455 a month for a gym with only class time access, barbells, and this guy to coach you, its snake oil tier. sure 3x5 add 5lbs works for beginners, anything really does.
the problem is selling and marketing it as some kind of premium/magic thing. these prices are more than what thor's coach cost, the guy who trained him to win wsm and get the 501kg deadlift record
he gets upset when anyone says ss is just a powerlifting program, and copes by calling it strength training. he needs to keep ss separated and unique so fools still fall for it.
powercleans for the average person is pretty pointless to their goals. no, the 60 year old grandma doesn't need 3x5 squats and powercleans and gomad.
>powercleans for the average person is pretty pointless to their goals. no, the 60 year old grandma doesn't need 3x5 squats and powercleans and gomad.
Anon, pointless to the goal of getting strong? It's an explosive full body compound? >grandma doesn't ne-
oh you're just baiting.
You didn't read the book.
>oh you're just baiting.
its not bait, go look at their youtube page and see what they're doing with these people. its squats and oats from ages 7 through 70
the great thing about rip and ss is you don't have to make up shit to show how ridiculous they are. just use they're own content
>didn't read the book
I've read SS and practical programming but not in the last decade. I know there's some vague mention of accessories but in reality (or the SS forums at least) rip whines about anyone doing anything other than squats, deadlift, bench, "the press" and rows. He doesn't seem to even really like benching. From what I recall the main focus of accessories in SS was stuff like chins and dips, not shit that's actually good for aesthetics like leg extensions, lateral raises, cable flies, etc. Rip hates that shit and you know that as well as I do.
And yes, I meant cleans not rows. I'm thinking of SL obviously. The book does say rows are an acceptable alternative for cleans in special cases like older lifters though, which is another thing where rip's sperging contradicts the books.
dips are not in SS you fricking mong, stop spreading disinformation
So you're admitting I was right in the first place then and this anon
that said:
>There's also nothing stopping from you doing a few isolation exercises for fun afterwards
is wrong.
I must be thinking of practical programming. There's a list of approved accessories in one of the books, but my point is that rip/ss doesn't approve of just adding accessories for aesthetics and you've just agreed with me.
I misunderstood. Rip doesn't approve, especially not for something as big as dips which can interfere with pressing. I think aside from chin-ups, the only accessory he has ever seemed to turn a blind eye to are curls, and has recommended just doing them for 3x10 once or twice per week if you are going to do them anyway.
I also don't know who is actually doing SS and adding a bunch of their own shit. Anyone who advocates for that is either someone who doesn't lift or who hasn't done SS (most of IST). SS becomes brutal as the weights get harder but very effective if you are trying to do it right, the problem is that a lot of people don't bother viewing the books, the SS articles, or any other SS media tbh. I was one of them but I took a long break and recently returned to lifting, followed SS, ignored all of the other IST shit and tried to adhere to all of the teachings pretty strictly and I have made massive progress. I'm pulling mid 400s with ease, it's incredible, 2x bw for reps on a beginner program tbh.
>IF YOU JUST FOLLOW THE PROGRAM AND BUY MY
BOOK YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOURE MISSING OUT ON REEEEE
Another one of those days hey Mark?
You are getting turbomogged by people who do it right for a few months when it will take you five years.
Exactly my point.
Yeah, I fell for the SS meme like 15 years ago and bought the book on Amazon because it wasn't all over the internet like it is not. I fricked around with it for years off and on before realising it's just a shitty program. I unironically got better results (aesthetically) switching to a brosplit.
SS has a huge section on assistance lifts including chins and dips. Rip likes them both. He's even made SS instruction videos on dips specifically and wants people to add them in if they don't hurt their shoulders. Did you actually read the book? You'd know this even if you didn't just from some basic Googling.
If you tried doing the program for years, then you never did the program. Blame your own illiteracy and moronation instead.
Your fellow SS advocate claims otherwise:
Like I said, I last read the books over a decade ago. I'm familiar with an accessories section but I also know full well that Rip does not advocate adding accessories on top of SS. Quite the opposite.
>you never did the program
Yeah, this is the standard SS cope. Any criticism of SS is met with this response, when the truth is it's just a shitty program that doesn't work unless you bloatmax.
Yeah, and he's wrong. Why not search for the .pdf and ctrl-f it yourself? Or maybe you like this: https://startingstrength.com/training/how-to-do-dips
>cope
Anon, the program explicitly states that it only works for beginners and that you should have reached your limit by 6 months. How can you defend morons that try to force progress by staying on the program for years on end? There are only a few simple questions you need to ask, and if you stop progressing after failing just a few sessions in a row then you're simply done. This is not the same as saying that someone that added in assistance X didn't do the program; this is an actual major deviation.
Not engaging with weak bait anymore.
>How can you defend morons that try to force progress by staying on the program for years on end?
I never said I did the program for years on end, you illiterate moron. I said:
>I fricked around with it for years off and on
You literally have <100 iq, which is probably why you simp for a program everyone knows is shit. You think moronic things like a non-lifter can walk into a gym and do a 5 rep max with no prior lifting experience and that it's impossible for your demonstrable strength to improve without gaining muscle. Even rip would call you a dumbass for that.
There, there. I'm not the moron with weak will power that does a program sometimes, and then sometimes not, but still over a period of years. Did you actually do the program properly, or did you just do a week or two of SS-style training with 6 month breaks?
>5rm "gotcha"
Anon, a PR always implies a PR with your current technique. Even someone that has lifted for half a year couldn't do a 5rm (or rather, a 3x5rm), because their technique is still developing. Not only that, I said "near their max". They work up to the point that their form starts collapsing.
>but if they had perfect form then some of them could've benched 2 plates day 1
Heh.
Post lifts?
>Did you actually do the program properly, or did you just do a week or two of SS-style training with 6 month breaks?
The former. At my peak doing SS I had a deadlift of 220kg for 1x5 and still looked dyel. Once I started doing a brosplit I immediately started looking like I actually lifted.
>Anon, a PR always implies a PR with your current technique.
I didn't say PR and you're trying to move the goalposts. The anon that originally brought up this point was correctly explaining that SS basically peaks your existing strength to closer to it's full potential, as opposed to actually building muscle.
>Thanks for confirming that you think someone who goes from a 0.5pl8 squat to a 4pl8 squat for five reps
Most people aren't interested in training muscle on their glutes and no-where else. Most people never achieve a 4pl8 squat on SS either anyway.
>claims to get a deadlift that's twice as strong as what most morons on dumb hypertrophy programs will ever get while on a BEGINNERS program that you should run for just a few months.
>still complains
If you actually lifted and went to a gym you'd realize how few people even get close to doing 220 for 5.
>Once I started doing a brosplit I started looking like I lift
Yes, you fricking moron. That's the entire point. You do the beginner strength program to get good base strength and size (and thus muscle) and then you can switch to the moron split after to round it all out. You can not do the opposite.
>Peaks your strength closer to your full potential
Yes anon, sure, you already had that 220x5 deadlift in you when you started the program. And when you quit the program all that muscle and strength just vanished. Thankfully your brosplit revitalized you, right?
Wait, I just actually fell for bait, didn't I?
>If you actually lifted and went to a gym you'd realize how few people even get close to doing 220 for 5.
We're talking about aesthetics moron. And the reason I got to that wasn't from SS it was from what I did when I wasn't doing SS.
>Once I started doing a brosplit I started looking like I lift
>Yes, you fricking moron. That's the entire point. You do the beginner strength program to get good base strength and size (and thus muscle) and then you can switch to the moron split after to round it all out. You can not do the opposite.
What a fricking cope. You're just admitting SS is shit for aesthetics now, which you've been denying up until now.
>Yes anon, sure, you already had that 220x5 deadlift in you when you started the program. And when you quit the program all that muscle and strength just vanished. Thankfully your brosplit revitalized you, right?
A regular guy can probably has the muscle mass to pull 180kg after peaking.. The extra 40kg could burst have easily have been from the training I was doing in between SS runs as SS itself. In any case 220kg isn't hugely impressive and I lift more than that now since ditching SS and barely even train deadlift.
>does beginners program, stops progressing, switches to different program
>months of training later goes back to.. the program explicitly for untrained novices that should be ran for a few months at best
Why? Think up some good bait to that question, will you?
>You're just admitting SS is shit for aesthetics now
No, I've been saying from the start that no lifter looks good after 6 months, but that the SS'er will look better because he has actual size and strength.
>A regular guy can probably has the muscle mass to pull 180kg after peaking..
Even ChatGPT wouldn't think this up if you asked for some le epic troll material.
>I lift more than that now since ditching SS and barely even train deadlift.
You say that you lift more than you did while on the 6 month beginner program? Thank god you do (you don't), because you'd have a problem otherwise.
>Why?
Because I fell for the shilling from gays like you and that I hadn't exhausted my newbie gains yet.
>Even ChatGPT wouldn't think this up if you asked for some le epic troll material.
You don't need a tremendous amount of muscle to lift 4pl8, anon. Go to a powerlifting meet for once in your life instead of larping as a lifter on the internet and you'll discover this yourself.
>You say that you lift more than you did while on the 6 month beginner program? Thank god you do (you don't), because you'd have a problem otherwise.
The important thing is that I lift more than you.
Not a single person will tell you that you have newbie gains left in you after squatting three plates for reps, or deadlifting four plates for reps. Not even Rip. That's where he would expect lifters to switch to the TM, even.
>You don't need a tremendous amount of muscle to lift 4pl8, anon.
Yes, which is why you see every lifter hit that weight in commercial gyms. It's literally something an office worker could do. Just need to channel that inner strength they're born with. Teach 'em some technique and get them warmed up.
Anon, we're talking about people that have lifted for 6 months and in that context 4 plates is very good. Objectively.
>powerlifting meet
Wait, I thought you hated powerlifting? Give me another good story.
>Lift more than you
Post body already.
>Wait, I thought you hated powerlifting?
Where did you get that idea? I said SS wasa shitty program. There are better ones for powerlifting too.
>Post body already.
Done. Your turn
Timestamp.
>Doesn't post body
What a surprise
Seriously? You use dude wipes?
squatting 5 plates does not require a lot of muscle.
Matter of fact you can have twig legs and squat 5pl8, all you need are somewhat decent glutes, the type of glutes that would get your friend to grab your ass.
Are these fatsos allergic to delts exercises or is the chest and fat hiding them
Terminally online fitizens are not the target demo for this. You don't coach a lot of people, so I'll remind you that for someone who hasn't done any exercise in 2 decades, going from 0 sets of volume to 10 sets/session is a dramatic increase, and they are terribly under-prepared to do the lifts. You're being charged that much for a very attentive staff who make sure you're doing the lift correctly. People's first exposure to a new activity greatly influences their trajectory with it. If your first language class is shit, you're likely not going to stick with it. You can learn it from duolingo, or a college level lecture with recitation. One of those groups has better long term outcomes. Believe it or not, that much money isn't that much for their target demo.
Using your own example, I am saying people are paying college level lecture with recitation prices for duolingo level of service at SS gyms
>it or not, that much money isn't that much for their target demo.
its not the total amount of money thats the issue. its the quality of service for the price. you could go to any good bodybuilding/powerlifting/weightlifting/strongman/crossfit gym and get free form coaching that can easily be better than what sharting strength will teach you. requiring hands on for every rep means you have other issues and going right to
>3x5 add 5lbs
isn't the answer
>duolingo level of service at SS gyms
You are just saying this without proving it. The service is charged at a premium because it frankly it is very good service. There is a rather difficult filtration process to weed out bad communicators who can't take a random person and have them moving to the best of their ability in one session. This is surprisingly hard, particularly given that the participant pool are the true motor morons / athletic dullards who need to attend.
>get free form coaching that can easily be better than what sharting strength will teach you
Are you sure? I don't think this is true, nor do most/all of our paying customers. The program is not the important part. It is a base level of volume that works for most people most of the time. The *service* they are providing in their coaching, that is the part you are paying for. They are very barebones gym. You are there for the people.
>requiring hands on for every rep means you have other issues
Yes? New lifters, particularly those they're working with, have many technical issues that get ironed out with careful attention. Often times this is not a contraindicator to add load, seeing that responsible loading calls for the lifter always air on the conservative side. 52 year old Doug going from 235 to 240 on his deadlift is not going to detract from his ability to gain technical proficiency in that lift. If it is, the loading call was too aggressive. This is a common misconception from like 10 years ago when everyone was grinding themselves into the dust without using their brain. IRL, at these gyms you are not killing people under 5 second @10 grinders. The loading calls are almost always conservative to allow for smooth, easy gains/learning.
Lol imagine meeting this guy and he tells you he’s a coach/personal trainer
What’s even being argued here because I’m getting confused, it’s literally called “starting strength”. Is Rip really arguing anyone except for people with a sub 1k total should be doing SS? Does he not understand his own program?
tbh it's just old ass rippetoe bellyaching in his old age about how it's harder to teach beginners and get them strong than it is for gifted lifters who go to westside (for example) to get even stronger. He's (Rippetoe) just coping.
He literally tells you a few months maximum in the book at most a year if you don’t stall. Most of IST hasn’t read the book and most their criticisms are them misunderstanding the program.
>having beginners do power cleans
power cleans are based and fun. what're you, a b***h? It's also not introduced for like, a month.
>literally says don’t do power cleans unless you have access to a coach
>acess to rippecoach
>still learn it wrong
after what rippetoe said critiqued lasha's WR snatch, i don't know how anyone can take the guy seriously on weightlifting movements
i was squatting 5pl8 in sleeves year one with SS and after that a wave LP.
I injured myself shortly after.
I had bigger legs than 99% of fit just from running and sports tho.
if he needs the strength he got from following SS, be it powerlifting, football, martial arts etc. then very good for him, very good progress
if he just wanted to get fit and/or attract females... KWAB
When I started lifting I actually wanted to do SS but I just didn't get it. The website looked like a MLM course and the actual program was nowhere to be found.
And I am not buying a gay ass book just to start weightlifting.
So I ended up doing some random PPL routine I found on youtube and I think I was better off for it
average PPL indian IQ
You were better off, but that's because of who you are and not because of the program. Sub-100iq people who don't put in effort doing the bare amount of research always end up failing around on the program for over a year.
You people are clueless if you think there is some 'other' program he could do that would make him look different.
Like if he had done more dumbbell flies then his physique would look drastically more attractive
That isn't how it works. He grew his muscles a bunch. That's all a routine can do.
>He grew his muscles a bunch
good joke
Yeah in getting his squat from 100 to 400 his muscles didn't grow
>SS+GOMAD
>very little positive change in the physique
>mostly just got fatter for average lifts
he's not on gomad lmao. that being said, I do wonder what he got his bench up to. he has the good squat good pull sissy bench proportions.
Why is it so hard for aestheticscels to understand that others might have different goals than them?
Because looking like shit and getting strong because you're fat isn't a worthwhile goal
You probably bench 135 doing “pump training” and also look like shit. Anyone would rather look bad and be strong than look like shit and be weak like you.
Cope harder fatass
Post body raj
So you admit you bench 1 plate? Feel free to prove me wrong.
I don't record myself lifting. How about you post your bench?
Because the people who post that shit are skinny manlets who have body dysmorphia.
>fat ugly guy
>powerlifts
Every frickin time
Yes but now he’s fat, ugly, and out of shape.
He probably couldn’t run a mile in less than twelve minutes.
I don’t exercise to make myself fat, ugly, and out of shape so…
Latino big dick energy wins again!!!
>here's your elite coach bro
>any mention of SS gets everyone pissy and slinging ad hominem furiously (womanly behavior)
ss is so fricking based, bros
something isn’t “based” just because people argue about it passionately. people can argue about something and it can still suck.
I bet you’re a trump voter.
>wah wah wah boo hoo wah
you're kind of womanly, anon, maybe transitioning IS the best course of action
Sam Bankman-Fried?
Steroids, early lifting suits, and knee wraps couldn't get their numbers to 2000lbs
lol
I literally work for starting strength. I am an SSC. Most of the discourse around this is really off base. If you go to a beginners piano recital, and smugly say 'ha, seems like everyone around here has a shitty tutor, they can barely play this instrument' YOU have the problem, not them.
OP clocks him lifting at 6-7 months. What do you expect someone to look like whose been lifting for that long? It will likely take him a few years to build a physique, since that's how long it takes literally everyone. Sure, you can get a twink lean in a year and have him be lean at 155. Who cares. He will be 170 in 3 years whereas this kid, if he plays his cards right, will be 195-205 at a similar leanness in 3 years.
>But he could have lost fat in this half a year!!!
Do you think this is hyper critical in a 3-5 year physique building process, that he optimizes for fat loss in the first half of a year? He's gotten stronger and built muscle mass. Those are the two current win conditions for beginner training.
Starting Strength is a book detailing arguments about why to do the lifts a certain way, and how to address your first few months of training. Practical Programing contains arguments for how to address broader programming. 'SS' isn't a powerlifting program. Go learn a language or an instrument. Your beginner texts are likely very much the same.
My dad works for Microsoft.
The problem is that there are multiple examples of the noob SS bloat archetype and even a lot of the SSC’s just look like fat neck beard guys but without any particularly impressive comp results or lifts. So that’s a problem that should probably be addressed
I'm one of the few SSCs involved in high level athletics. Most of my clientelle are also athletes, and I am still getting after it actively. I do not work at an SS gym. The average person at the SS gym is on, or nearing the other side of 50 and will consider it a huge lifetime accomplishment to pull a set at 315, allowing them to have greatly increased quality of life.
Your physical appearance or genetic allotment on strength has no bearing on your ability to teach a middle aged man how to squat and deadlift. Think about what you're saying. This is the first 2 years of learning the piano. Do you need your tutor to be an accomplished orchestra player? The primary attribute is understanding the material, and being able to communicate that in a customer/client facing environment.
>there are literal SS shills here
Figures
I started browsing fit literally over a decade ago and started working with SS I think 3 years ago. Get fricked. You being wrong doesn't make me a shill. The gyms actually pull business away from the independent coaches.
Get defensive all you want but it makes sense how people irrationally defend SS here. Almost as if they’re being paid to do it.
>people irrationally defend SS here
How is it 'irrational.' Because you disagree with it? I defend SS and I don't get paid.
You know IST has had the banner with the guy's ass on the cover of the book for years right. Here before you were, here after you're gone gay.
It's p cool. For this field, I make a whole lot of money and most of the work is done remotely. Various in person form touchups for hard cases, various camps for my sport with lifting involved, and I get to larp as an athlete while living vicariously through my clients. The shitty part is working 365 no days off. I work through vacations and on my wedding. No one else can really cover since it's independent. Not that bad though, sometimes like 2-3 hours a day and I make like 80-90k depending on the year.
I kind of want to do it but don't know if I have the personality. Is it really that hard?
Just saw that. No reason to continue to argue with literal shills.
All anyone needs to know from this thread is this
this
and pic
how do you like being ssc
>omits bench press numbers
Hm suspicious…
Kinda looks like my buddy murf
Just shows this guy has great strength genetics. It’s absolutely criminal that he’s being turned into a fatass instead of a stud. Rippetoe should be in prison.
>Just shows this guy has great strength genetics
you would never know by just looking at the left pic you fricking idiot 😀
he's just gotta cut now and he'll look better and be way stronger than all of the morons itt
>person with good genes for strength sports succeeds at strength sports
really makes you think