They argue that at least for novice lifters, bicep curl isolation work is completely unnecessary and doesn't cause any *extra* bicep growth.
Blaha mentions studies that show lat pulldowns + curls being no better than lat pulldowns alone for bicep growth in novice lifters.
Blaha says he programs curls *only because young men will do them regardless*, so he figures, best program in the way that safest and doesn't impair recovery.
Seems irrelevant. Someone inexperienced enough for that advice to matter doesn't know who Blaha or Rippetoe are.
Look at Blaha’s arms and see if that’s true, the guy thinks he has bad arms genes when the truth is that he doesn’t train them or curl properly so they are bad
Blaha spams curls
Only recently
>Blaha spams curls
>Only recently
He changes his mind constantly, so that's not surprising.
Here's Rippetoe's form. Does that answer your question?
Pretty disgusting form. He's doing the curls wrong, too.
This video is bizarre.
Besides the fact that he's implicitly promoting a barbell curl as being equally good at incorporating supination as a dumbbell curl (spoiler: it's not), he can't stop leaning forward during the eccentric, despite it being just a 45 lb. total weight, and using a barbell (which is more stable) at that.
Rippe is undoubtedly very strong, so I can't see why he's struggling to curl 45 lb like that.
Does he have injuries from powerlifting?
>Rippe is undoubtedly very strong
Not really lmao
There was a video of him deadlifting 5pl8 a few years ago, and that's as a 60 something year old man. He may have some retarded takes but he's in the top 1% of IST posters as an old coot.
He struggled to deadlift 5 plates. I mean yeah, it's top 1% of fit and gym goers in general, but are people who haven't even trained for it our standards for very strong? Most people in the gym train like shit, barely show up, and don't focus on compounds or strength.
Deadlifting 5 plates is achievable for anyone within 2-3 years. A supposed strength coach should easily be able to do more.
I guess it depends on your frame of reference but keep in mind he's also 60+. He's a goddamn senior citizen. I'd be very happy to still lift 5pl8 at that age.
Yeah but he also claims starting strength and Texas method will get you from absolute novice to 5pl8s in a year if you eat big and follow le program. It's not really impressive at all by his own logic because according Rip himself, it should be easily achievable within a very short time span.
I remember hearing some where that Rip felt he wasn’t half as strong as he felt he could of been due to bs programming and memeing during his prime training years
t. dyel
I believe he firmly believes that is the best form for curls. He probably advises for more of a cheat curl instead of the bodybuilding strict curl
One of the commenters on that vid (likely a troll) asked him to do a video on the ab wheel next.
Kek, imagine Rippletits trying to use the ab wheel.
>Blaha mentions studies that show lat pulldowns + curls being no better than lat pulldowns alone for bicep growth in novice lifters.
Sounds like BS to me. I am someone who has stuck to pullups/chinups for biceps. My bicep isn't my limiting factor in those movements. I'm pretty sure isolation work would have grown my biceps faster.
Functionally, you don't need them, but thats not why people target their biceps.
fucking kek
Almost certainly. He mentioned his elbow is fucked up in the video where he shows how to put the power clean down.
>Does he have injuries from powerlifting?
Irrc most of his injuries are from other activities; he mentions completely fucking himself up after being thrown from a horse once and a motorcycle crash too
>This video is bizarre.
His tone is wtf, as if he's making a harm reduction video about drug use.
I get thinking curls are unnecessary, but he seems to genuinely think they're counter-productive, or even dangerous.
Oh fuck me, I see all the skinny armed shrimps in my gym use this form. So much body movement, and momentum abuse from placing the bar on the body during the swing to get it up from the bottom of the rep.
Just go do preacher curls, or seated full ROM dumbell curls you dumb fucks. Cheated reps are not reps at all, and obviously you don't need those.
>Cheat curls
This amount of body english is actually ok if the weight justifies it, you control the negative and you're doing a stricter variation elsewhere in your program.
>This amount of body english is actually ok if the weight justifies it, you control the negative and you're doing a stricter variation elsewhere in your program.
The problem, besides the fact that it's his first rep, and the weight (for someone of his size and experience) doesn't justify it, is that he's using that body English during the eccentric as well.
Anyone who tells you that you shouldn't isolate a muscle you specifically want to grow is a retard who should be ignored.
Rippetoes view is dumb but Blaha has a point
The natural way to use your biceps is to support your back in doing a pulling motion
Curling is a very unnatural movement
Yeah as an athlete curling is useless/redundant. For a bodybuilder, probably not.
That's a dumb argument. All isolation movements are unnatural because the human musculoskeletal system is evolved to work as a unit, isolation movements are specifically designed to prevent muscles from working together as naturally intended. Isolating biceps isn't better or worse than isolating any other non-meme muscle. Stronger biceps will allow you to do heavier weight or more reps on your pulling compounds when all else is equal, simple as.
>naturalistic fallacy
>Curling is a very unnatural movement
bro, have you ever lifted an object in real life?
How do you pick up a heavy box?
It's always some variant of a zercher deadlift, but I am not autistic enough to train that.
Being good at barbell curls is as functional as it gets.
I row it or deadlift it or cheat curl it
I'm not saying the biceps are a useless vanity muscle, im saying the act of lifting something with ONLY your biceps is extremely unnatural
I sort of agree, I really dislike preacher curls.
I'd much rather my front delts or some momentum takes the load when it gets close to failure, rather than my bicep tendon with a massive lever arm on it to boot.
I also recently discovered that straight barbell curls > ez bar curls, if your wrists can handle it. The way I am forced to hold the straight bar to not dump all the load on my wrists gives me massive forearm pumps.
carry grocery bags into the house and then place them upon the countertop to begin putting things away
what should I do instead
right now it is
>pull ups
>seated cable rows
>lat pull downs
>concentration curls or hammer curls
I get extra growth. so I do them. I don't care what the science says. Science got us powersharters.
Do a ezbar/db curl with supination. Do hammer curls after.
>/db curl with supination. Do hammer curls after.
i'll try that, super set them together maybe? I'm just a pump chaser.
If you do same weight it could work. Most people are stronger at hammers, so do the supinated db curls, then do hammers. Supersets always gave me the biggest pump.
It's selection bias because you're using Rippetoe and Bloho as your sources but only kids on the internet think everyone in the gym isn't already doing curls so they actually think people with "small" arms "just need to add some curls at the end." I put "small" in quotes because you guys are size queens and think 20 inch arms are achievable natty in one year while Mike Mentzer and Frank Zane had 18.5" and sub 17" arms on stage and nobody calls their arms small. We know every muscle can grow from "indirect" stimulus as long as mechanical tension is high, such as your chest in a bench press even though it doesn't directly stimulate it as much as a low-to-high cable fly.
It's likely you'll still grow your biceps even if you take them out. We're just too OCD to try that, myself included.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4592763/
>b-bu-bu-but you're wrong!
The pec minor without isolating it
Serratus grows without isolating it
The scapular muscles grow without isolating it
The smaller musculature of the back like the rhomboids grows without isolating it (because you can't)
The 4 heads of the quadriceps grow without isolating them each
But the arms are magical and need it.
>The pec minor without isolating it
I isolate this muscle lol (pec minor dips)
>Serratus grows without isolating it
I do pullovers for these
>The scapular muscles grow without isolating it
If we're talking traps/rhomboids, rows hit those, and if we're talking infraspinatus/teres minor, facepulls and external rotations hit those
>The smaller musculature of the back like the rhomboids grows without isolating it (because you can't)
Rhomboids are hit by rows since they retract the scapula
>The 4 heads of the quadriceps grow without isolating them each
They all perform knee extension, however I do sissy squats to bias the rec fem since it crosses the hip, and I do all of my squatting movements ATG (besides BSS) to hit the VMO better.
>But the arms are magical and need it.
You isolate them just like any other muscle. Simple as
>I
>I
>I
Your personal experience can't really refute an well done scientific work + you're just agreeing with the previous poster (we don't need to isolate them, but still do)
>Your personal experience can't really refute an well done scientific work
It does actually.
>inb4 n=1
Yes but that n=1 is the only thing that matters because I want results for myself
>+ you're just agreeing with the previous poster (we don't need to isolate them, but still do)
Most of the muscles he listed grow because they're the prime movers on compound lifts (quads, rhomboids, scapular muscles, etc) so of course they're going to grow. The only muscle he listed that isn't a prime mover that also grows on its own just fine is the serratus, but even then you can get better results from doing pullovers (which are an amazing exercise anyway so why not do them?). From my experience the pec minor will grow a little from normal movements but it'll grow much more if you isolate it. Not necessary if you don't care about pec size that much but if you do care about that a lot it's worth training
>inb4 studies!!!
I have never seen a study comparing pec minor growth from compounds vs pec minor growth from compounds and isolation, AFAIK none exist (esp since most people don't even know that the pec minor is a muscle that exists and can be trained lol)
>Your personal experience can't really refute an well done scientific work
NTA but yes it literally does. Especially since almost no research in the exercise "science" field is well done.
Do you know what the word "isolate" means, champ?
Half of your post is saying "row hits that"... You know that rows are not an isolation excersie, right anon? Rows are 1 of the 5 major compounds. You're literally agreeing with the person you're responding to. You don't isolate half that shit, but it grows anyway.
>Half of your post is saying "row hits that"... You know that rows are not an isolation excersie, right anon? Rows are 1 of the 5 major compounds. You're literally agreeing with the person you're responding to. You don't isolate half that shit, but it grows anyway.
Because the rhomboids get taken close to failure on rows, while the arms do not. Many muscles in the body do not require isolation exercises to the same extent as other muscles. For example the chest and quadriceps can be grown easily without much isolation, since they are generally the limiting factor on their respective compound lifts. Meanwhile many of the other muscles do not get hit as well, simply because they do not get taken as close to failure. On bench for example, many people do not get much tricep growth, simply because if they just do bench, their pecs are fried by the end of it, but their triceps can still do much more since they aren't being taken as close to failure. Same thing with chinups, manny people do not get any bicep growth from chinups because the lats are the limiting factor, not the biceps.
Why do so many SSers have such shit biceps then, even after a year?
Because the upper body vs lower body frequency in that program is reversed. You can do arms and delts every other day without it interfering with shit, only limiting factor is overuse injury.
Because they dont really do shit that even indirectly targets their biceps, besides some pullups. And because that is a strenght focused program, they dont get much volume in their triceps either through benching+OHPing.
Can serratus even be isolated directly?
I don’t know if it’s a conscious muscle (one you can flex)
I can see mine but I still think OHP is what worked them
>muh stimulation with indirect movements
And somehow all of you fags that say this shit look like garbage
Haven't heard their arguments but for a total novice I would say yes, for perfect programming, curls are extraneous. Beginners need hardly any volume to grow and they don't have the dedication or recovery capacity to spare. They should do a small core of compounds for most effective use of time and energy. If they do some curls, I'm sure their biceps will grow faster than they would otherwise, but they might also exceed their limited recoverable bicep volume and I think programming chin-ups instead of pull-ups will probably net comparable gains for most people. It's kind of beside the point, though. The most important thing for novice programming is to make it fun and teach them the basics so they want to keep going and build their work capacity. Everyone loves doing curls, if babby's first bicep pump is what gets a novice to come back to the gym then they're worth it.
you shouldn't be getting much bicep activation on a lat pulldown. you are pulling wrong if you do.
you shouldn't be listening to rippetoe or blaha enough to know tgeir opinions on things like this.
blaha pins his shirts to make his biceps look bigger he is a massive cuck
I don't take advice from fat bastards.
get out of my used media shop, dum frogposter
Yes they're right. Read some studies. No difference when adding bicep curls on top of isolations. That goes for all compound + isolations work as well. Bench or pushups + tricep isolations add no growth. Squats + glute isolations add no growth. Not gonna stop me from doing the isolations though
>Yes they're right. Read some studies
>Needing studies to tell him what lifts he's allowed to do.
Do you also need studies to give you permission to go outside and play with your toys, kiddo?
For aesthetics they're absolutely fucking retarded and should never be listened to. For practicality, you can typically get all you need as a powerlifter out of rows and other lat work due to having some bicep activation. I still find curls useful however as directly growing my biceps tends to strengthen my elbow joint and help prevent injury there while doing heavy lifts elsewhere.
Standing bicep curls, especially if done with dumbbells, and done bilaterally simultaneously, are inherently a compound exercise, because they require posterior chain activation for proper stabilization.
Yeah for the first 6 months you can get away with it but after that you need isolation work to grow your biceps
REMINDER TO NEWFAGS
blahas arms are doomed to stay tiny no matter what he does because he used to inject stuff in his arms in his youth and it started to cause his muscles to rot and he had to get it removed by doctors who ended up taking muscle too
>blahas arms are doomed to stay tiny no matter what he does because he used to inject stuff in his arms in his youth and it started to cause his muscles to rot and he had to get it removed by doctors who ended up taking muscle too
Wow, I didn't know that.
He claims he used testosterone for site enhancement, which resulted in scar tissue.
Whether he used oil, T, or both, his arms have scar tissue artificially inflating their size. Also, aside from his general gear use, there's evidence that steroids can locally cause hypertrophy around the injection site, so his "big" biceps/fatceps are to a large degree the result of gear use and site enhancement, so why would anyone listen to him about bicep training?
Nobody takes him seriously on any topic
He's a meme/lolcow
Pretty much the Chris chan of the lifting community
Blaha and Rippletits are both fat and retarded and Blaha pretends to be a mercenary to jack off and Rippletits pretends his wife is getting fucked by other men to jack off (his wife is probably so ugly he couldn't find another man to fuck her)
>are two guys with shit arms right about how you shouldn't train arms?
No.
Also I'm not a novice lifter so I don't care what le studies about them say.
Take the ringpill for arms.
>RTO pushups
>BW curls
>RTO dips
>Dips
>Tricep extensions
etc
You can do this at home or in a park on days when you don't go to the gym.
I took the ring pill long ago, though I only use them for presses right now
>rings
Shit for strength, shit for aesthetics, only good to be a dyel contrarian.
>Shit for strength
Sure since rings make you good at rings
>shit for aesthetics
No
Produces dyels with noodle arms and abs.
>arms
Just use dbs and barbells for those, you don't need to limit yourself to rings lol
>abs
Just train them like you would anything else
post body ringfag
t. fatty
>Training the one sport (gymnastic rings) where every single athlete has phenomenal arms is shit for arm aesthetics
Oh ok bro
>you want big arms? just become an elite gymnast bro
>You won't get the same results as people with elite genetics/work ethic so therefore its bad
You can make the same argument about literally any exercise or any human activity. If your genetics are shit you'll have the same shit genetics doing curls, skullcrushers or whatever else.
Daily reminder that this legendary retard has done steroids and still look abhorrent
I pretty much never did curls. My triceps dominate my arms and my biceps is actually rather small when I compare my arms to my buddy who's lifting for aesthetics. My overall arm is bigger, but my biceps is smaller. If you don't do something to hit a muscle, it won't grow to its full potential. Only thing I did regularly was chinups.
Destiny has been doing Starting Strength for over a year; his arms look like someone who doesn't even lift.
destiny blew off his gymbro to rage queue in heart of the swarm in like 2013 and if you watched him after that moment then you should have a nice day
I can DL 210kg, Bench 140kg, OHP 80kg and Squat 200kg. My lift went up when I started supersetting with BB curls. My biceps have always been my weak point but I’ve always thought isolating them wouldn’t matter. Suddenly my OHP and bench got better stabilisation and I was able to hold the bar better in my squats. Didn’t do much for DL.
why take arm advice from someone who has never even seen their bicep vein
Rippetoe is a fat retard and the only people who should listen to him are people who also want to be fat retards
Do curls three times per week, different variations, 3×10 and 1 set to failure and you will see how your biceps will grow.
Add 2-4 lbs to your dumbbells/bar every 5 weeks for progressive overload.
Don't listen to Dumb and Dumber.
>doing work won't result in growth!
what a fucking retard
>Blowhole and Rippletits
Blaha is a fat manlet,of course he dosen't need curls,but if you are over 5'8,curls,are non negotiable