You won't have a big back without rows and deadlifts
is this because i need both vertical and horizontal pulling movements to develop my back optimally
or because push/chin ups dont target all back muscles
Its not about targeting muscle, it is also about targeting specific parts of the muscle through different angles.
Everybody learns this somewhere along the journey, you can build fantastic pecs with only dips, but if you truly want an upper pec shelf you will need some upper chest work.
Same applies to lats. Vertical + horizontal is needed, and if your experienced you can feel how they affect the lats differently.
>targeting specific parts of the muscle through different angles
The effective difference is negligible. As for a row vs pull-up, there is little difference between angles. There are differences in muscle activation during the motions. >https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC449729/
However, when you account for the strength curves of the muscles, the lats in particular are very strong in the lengthened position compared to the contracted position. During a pull down/pull up, you being the motion in the strongest part of rom which means if you jerk yourself up and ride up on the momentum as is the case with pullups as commonly performed, it will take less muscle activation to create the initial impulse. Whereas a row takes more strength during that initial impulse to jerk the weight. However, if you were to perform either motion a relatively slow positive as to eliminate momentum and force your muscles to do the work the entire time, you should require the same muscle activation during the half of a pullup as you would during a row.
Contrary to many fantasies, rows and pullups are not both required. Pick the one you prefer. If you perform both exercises in a manner that requires a high intensity of effort, you will see the same results in the long run.
They are both required if you want your lats to have thickness from the front.
I'm not gonna post pics, but if you don't do rows your front lat spread will be ok but it will have no roundness, if you do rows it will have a decent thickness going.
Also from the back the lower lats will hang more with rows. No matter how you do your pullups, the lower lats will not develop fully if you don't row properly.
I can bet you don't have a mind muscle connection to your lower lat, and what you consider lower lat is probably upper lat, or even worse, teres major.
[...]
is this because i need both vertical and horizontal pulling movements to develop my back optimally
or because push/chin ups dont target all back muscles
>Can I build a big back with just Pull- and Chin-Ups
Yes. If you use slow negatives and bring the muscles in your back close enough to failure. >do I need to include other exercises?
Deadlifts.
>vertical and horizontal pulling movements
The relevant motion common in both of these are a combination of shoulder extension and shoulder adduction depending mostly on the angle of the arms. Whereas a pull-up is the full range of motion for a shoulder extension and shoulder adduction (if you are bringing your chest to the bar), a row is only about half of that motion. As far as the back is concerned it doesn't make a difference as long as you are performing the exercise with enough intensity. The only thing that matters is whether or not the muscles are sufficiently exhausted by the motion. Unless you are varying the grip in an extreme manner such as doing a high row, you're likely not going to notice a difference in the long run.
I want to believe but if Michelle is really a dude why doesn't he just reveal it.
it's 2023-2024, eternal praise from the LGBT community.
but also "chuds were right" everything.
The back has wings(teres+lats), upper back(traps+rhomboids) and erectors(spine/xmas tree)
Super wide grip pullup variations can be used for the upper back but Id advise that you do rows instead
Hit the different parts, deadlifts are OK but for general back development do rows and pullups too
Just do straight arm pulldowns a few times instead of pulldowns and see if you like it. There's really no point in doing compound after compound. Your arms are just going to be your limiter on vertical pulls after so much work anyways
I'll try that instead
>pull-ups >lat pulldowns
Isn't this the same muscle twice?
these are the back exercises that this thread have recommended
I think you'll like straight-arm, especially if you already have a decent mind-muscle connection, they feel really good. For me personally I find it hard to really send lats home that last little bit because I find traps being the limiting factor on horizontals, and arms being on verticals
Just do straight arm pulldowns a few times instead of pulldowns and see if you like it. There's really no point in doing compound after compound. Your arms are just going to be your limiter on vertical pulls after so much work anyways
>be me >out with my pretty faced thin Ethiopian (Amhara) gf >walking into bar >some söy doorman starts comparing her to big mike Obama like it’s a fricking compliment >“wow, you look like Michelle Obama” >start sperging out >does my gf look like a fricking troony bro!?
Long story short, we weren’t allowed into the bar and my gf became worried I was secretly homosexual
frick, barack obama is a lucky man. he gets to get absolutely SKEWERED by michelle's patently fricking *huge* homosexual destroying dick. i got a boner just typing that, bros...
You'll need pullups/pulldowns and also ROWS. They're both very important. Shrugs are the icing on the cake as far as upper traps goes
thanks
is this because i need both vertical and horizontal pulling movements to develop my back optimally
or because push/chin ups dont target all back muscles
Its not about targeting muscle, it is also about targeting specific parts of the muscle through different angles.
Everybody learns this somewhere along the journey, you can build fantastic pecs with only dips, but if you truly want an upper pec shelf you will need some upper chest work.
Same applies to lats. Vertical + horizontal is needed, and if your experienced you can feel how they affect the lats differently.
if YOU'RE experienced
>targeting specific parts of the muscle through different angles
The effective difference is negligible. As for a row vs pull-up, there is little difference between angles. There are differences in muscle activation during the motions.
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC449729/
However, when you account for the strength curves of the muscles, the lats in particular are very strong in the lengthened position compared to the contracted position. During a pull down/pull up, you being the motion in the strongest part of rom which means if you jerk yourself up and ride up on the momentum as is the case with pullups as commonly performed, it will take less muscle activation to create the initial impulse. Whereas a row takes more strength during that initial impulse to jerk the weight. However, if you were to perform either motion a relatively slow positive as to eliminate momentum and force your muscles to do the work the entire time, you should require the same muscle activation during the half of a pullup as you would during a row.
Contrary to many fantasies, rows and pullups are not both required. Pick the one you prefer. If you perform both exercises in a manner that requires a high intensity of effort, you will see the same results in the long run.
They are both required if you want your lats to have thickness from the front.
I'm not gonna post pics, but if you don't do rows your front lat spread will be ok but it will have no roundness, if you do rows it will have a decent thickness going.
Also from the back the lower lats will hang more with rows. No matter how you do your pullups, the lower lats will not develop fully if you don't row properly.
I can bet you don't have a mind muscle connection to your lower lat, and what you consider lower lat is probably upper lat, or even worse, teres major.
the latter, giant lats with no erectors and traps looks ridiculous
meant
>Can I build a big back with just Pull- and Chin-Ups
Yes. If you use slow negatives and bring the muscles in your back close enough to failure.
>do I need to include other exercises?
Deadlifts.
>vertical and horizontal pulling movements
The relevant motion common in both of these are a combination of shoulder extension and shoulder adduction depending mostly on the angle of the arms. Whereas a pull-up is the full range of motion for a shoulder extension and shoulder adduction (if you are bringing your chest to the bar), a row is only about half of that motion. As far as the back is concerned it doesn't make a difference as long as you are performing the exercise with enough intensity. The only thing that matters is whether or not the muscles are sufficiently exhausted by the motion. Unless you are varying the grip in an extreme manner such as doing a high row, you're likely not going to notice a difference in the long run.
Imagine how ripped Mr. Obama would be if he weren't on hormone blockers and estrogen.
that would be unladylike
https://odysee.com/@Realfake_Newsource:9/RFNS-6.23-001-012:1
I want to believe but if Michelle is really a dude why doesn't he just reveal it.
it's 2023-2024, eternal praise from the LGBT community.
but also "chuds were right" everything.
You won't have a big back without rows and deadlifts
Black women are obese which is why they have fat backs
DEADLIFTS,
ROWS,
she back mogs me without touching a weight
cause all Black folk have higher base test
Most nigs are skinny homosexuals who wear puffer coats
Haha Black folk are so cold. They belong in the jungle
Add weight, experiment with tempo and volume, do horizontal pulls
The back has wings(teres+lats), upper back(traps+rhomboids) and erectors(spine/xmas tree)
Super wide grip pullup variations can be used for the upper back but Id advise that you do rows instead
Hit the different parts, deadlifts are OK but for general back development do rows and pullups too
You should add isolations just like you would pecs. Straight arm pulldowns will have you feeling your lats like nothing else
so to summarize, a good back day looks likee:
>deadlifts
>pullups
>barbell rows
>lat pulldowns
>pull-ups
>lat pulldowns
Isn't this the same muscle twice?
deadlifts are mostly a leg and ass exercise. if you do squats, your spinal erectors will be fine.
I know, but I do it on my back day
I'll try that instead
these are the back exercises that this thread have recommended
I think you'll like straight-arm, especially if you already have a decent mind-muscle connection, they feel really good. For me personally I find it hard to really send lats home that last little bit because I find traps being the limiting factor on horizontals, and arms being on verticals
Just do straight arm pulldowns a few times instead of pulldowns and see if you like it. There's really no point in doing compound after compound. Your arms are just going to be your limiter on vertical pulls after so much work anyways
>be me
>out with my pretty faced thin Ethiopian (Amhara) gf
>walking into bar
>some söy doorman starts comparing her to big mike Obama like it’s a fricking compliment
>“wow, you look like Michelle Obama”
>start sperging out
>does my gf look like a fricking troony bro!?
Long story short, we weren’t allowed into the bar and my gf became worried I was secretly homosexual
frick, barack obama is a lucky man. he gets to get absolutely SKEWERED by michelle's patently fricking *huge* homosexual destroying dick. i got a boner just typing that, bros...
The amount of times Burrock called her Michael publically though
pendlay rows, deadlifts
weighted wide grip pullups