Can someone explain the whole seed oil thing to me in moron language?
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Can someone explain the whole seed oil thing to me in retard language?
Can someone explain the whole seed oil thing to me in moron language?
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Designed for industrial machinery, marketed as food to boost market
If paid shills are attacking a idea that means you are over the target.
>if you dont eat my industrial waste you are le LE KETOMAN!!!
holy mother of grasping for straws
You have to accept the plant-based agenda 100% or you're the enemy.
Just like you have to accept gender ideology 100% without question. No reservations about mutilating kids, or you're the enemy.
But seed oils aren't carbs either...
It's pretty much rancid from the get go because of all that processing that includes repeated heating, they just remove the smell afterwards.
With olive oil, producers put it in dark bottles to protect from light, it isn't a case with seed oils.
Another thing is this isn't fat that fits us well. If to believe some posts I read here, seed oils do not satiate you while animal fat will (but for weight loss I propose to go with much animal lean protein instead and some carbs for energy, of course)
Another thing:
Israeli Paradox
French Paradox
You might hear it isn't scientific, but honestly at this point nothing is and the fact these phenomena are actually recognized might give some food for thought about health effects of fats.
basically this. They did the same thing with bird food. I used to buy chia seeds for my birds for 2 euros for 5 kilos. Chia seeds are now marketed as superfood and is now 10 euros for a kilo.
Have something you throw away as waste. Market it as superfood or healthy. Sell it with high profits to low iq consoomers.
but chia seeds are super foods, and it's no waste. Birds love it, humans love it.
>but chia seeds are super foods
do you know how much you need to eat of it to have a benefit? 100 grams of chia seeds will get you 15 grams of proteine. You know how much 100 grams of seeds is? Thats half a bag for only 15 grams of proteine.
You don't eat chia seeds for protein! You eat them for fibers and your gut
Fiber is actually bad for your gut health
scrapes the lining
you can't ferment it in your gut
you aren't an ape
you aren't a cow
some animals eat fiber which they then convert into short chain fatty acids through fermentation. humans lack that gut function entirely
I fricking wonder why?
>Fiber is actually bad for your gut health
What's the evidence for that?
Where is the evidence its good?
If you can show that something has no benefit for every single person in a study, and it in fact has a detriment, and then you remember that we don't actually use fiber for anything whatsoever, then it becomes pretty clear.
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/
Ok since you want it, here's some examples
>Isolated soluble DF supplementation significantly decreased body weight in overweight and obese participants.
>The results of the current umbrella meta-analysis strongly support the beneficial effects of dietary fiber intake for the improvement cardiovascular risk factors.
>These findings emphasise the likely benefits of promoting greater dietary fibre intakes for patients with CVD and hypertension.
>Soluble fiber, 2–10 g/d, was associated with small but significant decreases in total cholesterol
>Soluble fiber is effective in treating IBS. Bran did not appear to be of benefit, although we did not uncover any evidence of harm from this intervention, as others have speculated from uncontrolled data.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916522042241
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9511151/
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/14/13/2627
Some are controlled trials, some are prospective studies, is that enough, I can go on forever with meta analysis that keep showing benefits
Here's some missing links to some of the stuff i quoted
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916522042241
https://journals.lww.com/ajg/Abstract/2014/09000/The_Effect_of_Fiber_Supplementation_on_Irritable.12.aspx
How do you explain my study then?
Also these are all observational studies, they do not control with 100% certainty in any case. My study doesn't either, but how can you explain the complete shift of ALL participants in my study's case to resolution of issues with stopping fiber? 100%
Explain that to me.
Some are clinical trials, what you linked is not a clinical trial i believe
>ou don't eat chia seeds for protein! You eat them for fibers and your gut
Every single veggie and fruit has fibers. If you have a normal diet you get enough fibers without having to eat insane amounts of expensive bird food
>and omega 3 if you don't eat fish.
100 grams of chia seeds is the same prize as 90 capsules of fish oil. Two fish oil capsule have the same amount of omega 3, so don't have to eat a whole bag of bird food.
Its a meme sup that is marketed to morons to buy and eat birdfood for a crazy price.
dha, the less abundant type, is animal only, no plant contains dha except one species of algae bred/genetically modified specifically for that. im not reading this fricking thread just like im not reading the aspartame one, but, frick you, omega3=/=omega3, i will not elaborate, this is a threat
someone might also say that some amount of plant omega3, especially ala, is converted into dha - NOT NEARLY FRICKING ENOUGH, LIKE A COUPLE % AT MOST, USUALLY THEY DETERMINE 1-2%. vegetarians and especially vegans are malnourished. god i fricking hate this fricking topic so much. by the way, seed oils arent inherently bad, but basedbean and sesame and lin and CHIA FRICKING oil is because of the estrogens. frick you. god, i am going to kill myself
and omega 3 if you don't eat fish
Wow that's a lotta calcium
Chia seeds have been eaten for millenias. Kind of ignorant to assume that America is the first to do anything
>industrial use/waste
Boogeyman argument
>mid 20th century is today
Please refrain from posting until you improve your reading comprehension
>industrial use/waste
>Boogeyman argument
But its true you shilling fricking moron. It was ship engine lubricant and they had to find a use for it.
Your argument is that the fact that it had an industrial application means that it's inherently bad. Fricking corn is used in industrial applications. Water is used in industrial applications. It's a non-argument
>Your argument is that the fact that it had an industrial application means that it's inherently bad. Fricking corn is used in industrial applications
Corn is fricking garbage too so yeah, well done just proving my and other anons points further.
That water comment just proves you're grasping for straws, you have nothing.
begone seed oil israelite
what a homosexual corn shouldn't even be fed to animals it's fricking useless
processed food bad
Seed oil is processed food
Seed oil bad
This. Eating sunflower seeds or olives is fine. Processing 1000 sunflower seeds to get a tablespoon of super concentrated oil is bad. Same with olive oil.
Olive oil is bad now??
Everything that is not raw is bad for you.
i dont need hexane and chemical solvents and a big factory to make olive oil at home
They're superfoods and they help replace the body's racist saturated fat stores with diverse high omega 6 polyunsaturated ones
Seeds are very calorie dense.
In nature no one is eating a billion fricking seeds in a sitting.
With industrial processes billions of seeds can be turned into a relatively small and hyper concentrated pile of shitfrick, that is for no apparent reason shoved in absolutely fricking everything.
Aside from the enormous quantity of calories, sneed oils are extremely high in omega 6 fatty acids. Outside of processed sneed oils humans would never encounter such ridiculous quantity of said omega 6 fatty acids, omega 3 fatty acids being far more prevalent in normal unprocessed food.
Shit fricks you up yo.
>In nature no one is eating a billion fricking seeds in a sitting.
anyway, seed oils are processed hell and back. Bad.
"Rapeseed" is language rooted toxic masculinity, and so it is better to change the name of the oil to better protect the trans community from those who wish to harm them. Anything short of this is tantamount to genocide.
>I can't accept responsibility for my weight, so I blame foods
what are you talking about? trying to learn something is me not accepting responsibility? do you know how fricking moronic you sound?
>ketotards seething
So its just coincidence that wherever seed oil saturated processed foods go, people get fat and sick?
Easy test is fries. Fry them in tallow vs. rapeseed oil. Thats it, just taste them and you realise how fricking horrible seed oils are.
I make garlic confit and then fry my fries in the confit oil
It’s sick
Never mind that as this shit has been introduced and normalized throughout the decades people have become fatter and fatter.
And the fact that 100 years ago everyone was skinny and ate 1000 more calories per day.
Just because you aren't fat doesn't mean you aren't diseased. Plenty of "skinny" diabetics these days. Its all about how your body handles it. Are you good at storing the fat, or does it instead wreak havoc on your joints and shit?
You're just ignorant.
>seed oil has not been around for many years
>human digestive system body are not adapted to them
>they make you sick
>but they are cheap to produce so they fool you in to thinking they are healthy
do not eat
>in moron language
SEED OIL BAD!!! Make you go boom boom! Nose people angry if you say seed oil bad!
shills can cry and whine and moan cope all they want. i am not touching seed oils. cry some more
Because they're cheap as frick and shoved into everything in excess, people with low education are citing them as being the ultimate food evil the same way they did gluten years ago due to it also being ever present in crap highly processed foods.
Avoid highly processed shit in general. That's the only thing you need to know.
Both omega 3s and omega 6s play similar roles in health, meanwhile however it's not common in nature to to eat a billion seeds worth of omega 6s in a single sitting.
Also recognize that correlation does not necessarily imply causation, so no, going keto isn't defaulting to a healthy choice because there's no seed oils in the diet, it's still bad for you, the world is not binary.
>it's still bad for you
How?
Unless you are from the arctic, your body is adapted to use carbs and functions better with some carbs.
Low carbs is great. No carbs at all is silly.
I'm not a strict adherent to low/no carb as I enjoy potatoes and rice, but keto gets unfairly shit on for very shaky reasons IMO as I've basically eaten keto before in the past to lose weight and succeeded in doing so, so I'm glad you gave a calm and reasonable response about it.
>he doesn't know about stable isotope testing
toppest of keks
>in moron language?
sneed oil make heart hurt! make u die >:(
I'll make it super easy
>re-marketed industrial waste
>very easily oxidized which leads to cellular damage
>very dense in omega6 which is the balance needed for plants and not mammals
>cheap and profitable so producers will use it to make up for healthy fats (animal fats)
>ultra processed in order for you not to throw them up
seed oil not natural
Yes:
It's the new bogeyman people use to blame all their problems on. Because it's very easy to blame everything on a singular cause.
It's the same as with s.oy, meat, fat, carbs and others. Each of those were and are still blamed as singular causes for obesity and other health issues.
/fit/: "sneed oils are bad for you"
you (a moron): "so you think all problems in the world are caused by seed oil?"
dont respond to shills
do respond to moxyte and tell him to kill himself
Whoa!!!! 1918!!! Surely that experiment has been reproduces in the last 100 years right?
Nope? Well it doesn't matter time to base my opinion on an image macro from IST.
pre ww2 scientific data is extermely valuable. i think you can guess why
Seed oils are healthy, anyone who says otherwise is a keto/carnivore/lowcarb moron, simple as
Assuming you know what seed oils are, they aren't something we consumed at all until roughly 150 years ago. They have no place in the human diet, there is no reason to think they are healthy, and they have been demonstrated with concrete evidence to damage your body.
Here is the real scoop (moron friendly as can be):
>seed oils are made of a type of fat that is not very stable at room temperature or high temperature
>it breaks down quickly even on the store shelf
>it breaks down into basically poison on the shelf and inside your body
>eating this type of fat creates something called oxidative stress inside your body
>it damages your """""bad cholesterol""""" (not even a real thing)
>it damages your mitochondrial function
>it makes you fat and sick
>humans now eat on average 5-12% of their daily food energy in the form of seed oils
>historically this has been less than 1% (a small amount of this is in every food, but not a harmful amount)
>you are eating industrial sludge because its cheap and they can put it in everything and mix it with ground up corn and cheese to make delicious snacks and you won't know the difference and you'll eat it and you'll become sick
They literally proved beyond a shadow of a doubt the shit about oxidative stress and damaging LDL particles in the 1960s. Anyone telling you to eat this shit or calling me a ketoschizo is a liar and a homosexual who deserves the death penalty.
>damaging LDL particles in the 1960s.
Good, ldl particles cause heart disease
Linoleic acid is a chemically unstable fat with important signaling functions when consumed in evolutionarily appropriate amounts. The introduction of seed oils dramatically increased linoleic acid consumption, and this increase created a large burden of primary and secondary oxidation products, which are cardiotoxic to both humans and other animals.
Decades of human clinical studies looking at how different fats affect heart disease risk are rife with confounding variables and category errors. When these flaws are accounted for, the results flip from favoring linoleic acid to revealing a consistent signal of harm. This signal is all the more reliable given that all populations prior to the introduction of seed oils show low rates of heart disease. And once these pre-seed oil populations start consuming them, including the U.S. in the last hundred years, heart disease rates start to climb.
Given that increasing dietary linoleic acid above evolutionarily appropriate levels consistently increases heart disease mortality and all-cause mortality, one of the safest approaches to preventing heart disease may be to avoid seed oils.
OXIDIZED LDL. Oxidized by PUFA.
>OXIDIZED LDL. Oxidized by PUFA.
That doesn't mean shit, the fact that you are relying on rat studies and mechanistic speculation is enough to dismiss you
Did you really not finish elementary school? That's where they teach why they use rats in studies. I'm not even going to tell you why because it's like explaining to someone why water is wet.
>Did you really not finish elementary school? That's where they teach why they use rats in studies.
Are you aware most rat studies (in vivo) don't replicate in humans, they are the lowest evidence there is
No, that'd be epidemiological studies, which the meta-analysis you've used to support your claims uses as its backbone. Funny shill
Are you seriously putting rat studies above human studies LOL
>that'd be epidemiological studies
Prospectivive studies have high concordance with rtc studies, so they are very good evidence
>Given that increasing dietary linoleic acid above evolutionarily appropriate levels consistently increases heart disease mortality and all-cause mortality
What's the evidence for that? I have evidence that contradicts that claim, do you wanna see it
You're completely off there.
You don't want your LDL to be damaged (oxidized). That's how they become a problem. They're damaged by oxidation and glycation then aren't recognized by the system that tightly regulates your cholesterol then they can't be taken out of circulation and clump together and embed into your artery wall that is already vulnerable from inflammation.
>cause
No they don't. That's a causal statement which cannot be supported by any evidence and you can try all day, but it is impossible because the data doesn't exist to support your claim.
LDL being oxidized by linoleic acid was proved in human cells in the 1960s. You are moronic.
Not him but you can look at China and see how they increased their consumption of seed oils and then like clockwork they are having an obesity and diabetes epidemic which goes hand in hand with heart disease and mortality. I'm not defending that claim specifically, but there is a historical amount of this stuff we definitely ate, no question. And now that we have upped that astronomically, all the "western diet" countries are seeing massive rampant overweight and disease coming with it. 12% of US adults are metabolically healthy.
Do you think that was the case 150 years ago?
>You don't want your LDL to be damaged (oxidized). That's how they become a problem. They're damaged by oxidation and glycation then aren't recognized by the system that tightly regulates your cholesterol then they can't be taken out of circulation and clump together and embed into your artery wall that is already vulnerable from inflammation.
This is all mechanistic speculation, show me actual human outcome data
>No they don't. That's a causal statement which cannot be supported by any evidence and you can try all day, but it is impossible because the data doesn't exist to support your claim.
When you lower ldl you reduce heart disease, ldl is causal to heart disease.
>This meta-analysis indicates that very low LDL-C levels on intensive lipid-lowering treatments are not associated with any adverse event and maintain a persistent reduction of cardiovascular events.
>Consistent evidence from numerous and multiple different types of clinical and genetic studies unequivocally establishes that LDL causes ASCVD.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36102667/
https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/38/32/2459/3745109
>LDL being oxidized by linoleic acid was proved in human cells in the 1960s. You are moronic.
This is mechanistic speculation, show me human outcome data
>Not him but you can look at China
I don't care about ecological evidence
Let me show you reality, people that got measured their LA levels in their blood had less heart disease than the ones that had less
>Higher levels of LA were significantly associated with lower risks of total CVD, cardiovascular mortality, and ischemic stroke
> In pooled global analyses, higher in vivo circulating and tissue levels of LA and possibly AA were associated with lower risk of major cardiovascular events. These results support a favorable role for LA in CVD prevention.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30971107/
>ldl is causal to heart disease
No it is not. Simply saying it doesn't make it any more true. There has been no causal relationship established. No matter what homosexualry you dredge up. It hasn't happened.
>LDL being oxidized by linoleic acid was proved in human cells in the 1960s. You are moronic.
This is mechanistic speculation, show me human outcome data
Some clarification, it was 1980 that oxLDL was discovered. IN HUMANS. We know exactly what can oxidize LDL, and there is a test available that you yourself can do today to see your levels of oxLDL you utter moron.
>Let me show you reality, people that got measured their LA levels in their blood had less heart disease than the ones that had less
you're showing me analysis of observational studies
Well how about this one?
>https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/346/bmj.e8707.full.pdf
Linoleic acid intervention that increased all cause mortality
Also
>https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/6/e010401.long
Lack of association between LDL-C and all cause mortality
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8881926/
Total meat intake associated with life expectancy
And finally picrel
>TC associated with lower all-cause mortality
That chart is taking numbers from the largest data set available on cholesterol and the largest data set available on mortality
c, s, d.
i'll comeback in 15min got some stuff todo, i'll respond to all of your bullshit don't worry
He ran
>No it is not. Simply saying it doesn't make it any more true.
You denying it doesn't make it not true
>There has been no causal relationship established
Yes it has see
, your picture is not a study so is worthless
>Some clarification, it was 1980 that oxLDL was discovered. IN HUMANS. We know exactly what can oxidize LDL, and there is a test available that you yourself can do today to see your levels of oxLDL you utter moron.
This is mechanistic speculation, show human outcome data
>you're showing me analysis of observational studies
They measured the biomarkers in those studies, the people with more LA had less heart disease mortality
>https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/346/bmj.e8707.full.pdf
This study was confounded by transfats, also it's superseded by Lee Hooper 2020 meta regression study
>https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/6/e010401.long
Ok that trash study by a cholesterol denier was debunked here, I can also post a full article that debunkes every claim that has been made by that moron author
Also genetical studies debunk it
>Higher apoB shortens lifespan, increases risks of heart disease and stroke, and in multivariable analyses that account for LDL cholesterol, increases risk of diabetes.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanhl/article/PIIS2666-7568(21)00086-6/fulltext
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8881926/
>Total meat intake associated with life expectancy
That's a cross sectional study, they are not good evidence of anything, is hilarous you post a cross sectional study but complain about my prospective study which is way above it when it comes to evidence
>And finally picrel
>TC associated with lower all-cause mortality
That's not a study, that's ecological data, and ecological data is worthless since they are not studies
I can keep posting more studies but it really doesn't matter because I debunked every claim you made already
God, I'm 90% sure I interacted with you on hackernews recently. Is this your job, promoting estrogen on the internet? Could also be a group of people that repeats arguments word for word, but it looks highly inorganic either way.
I think it's more the latter, although it's not even a group of people but rather one or two spergs that feel the need to go sentence by sentence and comment on every single thing
>When you lower ldl you reduce heart disease, ldl is causal to heart disease.
no you dont and no its not. you only get that result by citing people paid by pharmaceutical companies to distort evidence. i hope you get paid for this.
>The association between the absolute 5-year risk reduction (ARR) and the degree of LDL-C lowering in 12 trials included in Table 4A in the article by Ference et al. (r = 2.59) and from 21 trials they have ignored or excluded (r = −0.1).
>White symbols: trials included in the analysis by Ference et al.; black symbols: excluded or ignored trials; squares: primary-preventive trials; round symbols: secondary-preventive trials; stippled line: regression line for the included trials; full line: regression line for all trials.
this type of fat creates something called oxidative stress inside your body
Don't look up about fava beans, and favism, and more importantly how it affects both people with favism AND "normal" people.
It's nothing but engine oil.
The United States saw a catastrophic rise in heart disease during the mid-20th century most likely related to changes in dietary linoleic acid intake.
Researchers found a significant disparity in the incidence and prevalence of heart disease, with cultures eating pre-industrial diets having extremely low incidence, if any, compared to populations eating industrialized diets.
Before any human trials had been conducted, leading public health organizations assumed that lowering serum cholesterol levels and increasing seed oil consumption would lead to better health outcomes.
In the United States, steadily rising seed oil consumption drove linoleic acid intake up from 2% of calories in the early 1900s to around 8.9-9.4% by 2010.
By the late 20th century, research had revealed that the susceptibility of LDL particles to oxidation was a much better predictor of heart disease than changes in total cholesterol or LDL cholesterol levels.
Numerous human clinical trials demonstrate that, like smoking, increased seed oil consumption increases LDL’s susceptibility to oxidation, posing a major concern when it comes to cardiovascular disease.
Like smoking, seed oil consumption also induces oxidative stress, induces insulin resistance, damages the arterial endothelial wall, and increases oxidized LDL – a common mechanism that causes heart disease.
>The United States saw a catastrophic rise in heart disease during the mid-20th century
No it didn't, heart disease mortality is lower than ever
shills panicking
>research had revealed that the susceptibility of LDL particles to oxidation was a much better predictor of heart disease than changes in total cholesterol or LDL cholesterol levels.
Lol no, oxidation is merely speculation, it has no human data to back it up
what about peanut butter?
should I avoid it?
All nuts other than macadamias are way too high in omega-6 linoleic acid (one of the biggest reasons to avoid seed oils), and should be avoided.
I'm not sure if any of the FUD spread about sneed oils is true. The research is very limited.
The thing is, cutting out seed oils effectively makes you remove almost all processed food from your diet. I lost 15 pounds without really trying just by eating real food instead of processed garbage when I cut sneed oils. I made no conscious effort to modify my caloric intake.
Seed oil worse than alcohol to your liver which makes your body hurty and dead faster.
Seeds are the part of the plant that the plants try to protect. By directly squeezing every last drop of phytotoxin from every seed, you're creating a greasy poisonous rancid oil, not suitable for animal consumption.
Seed oil used to be illegal so they bred plants to have just barely legal amounts of phytotoxin to harvest their seeds from. This legal limit was not tested to be safe for consumption, however.
Unsaturated fatty acids are sensitive to oxidization which causes free radicals and other issues. Sneed oils are processed at high temperatures, bottled in clear plastic, transported across the world and stored in room temperature shelves so they are certainly oxidized when the consumer gets them. Consuming them doesn't seem to improve any biomarkers of health but they keep getting shilled anyway due to investments in the theory. Most studies "supporting them" are extremely dishonest like looking at people eating lean fish for their diet and then saying canola oil is good for you and demonize normal fats like fruit or animal fats that you can make by hand with a grinder and some heat. Saturated fats are stable under all the conditions that cause polyunsaturated fats to oxidize.
Also, this isn't a ketolard thing. They just stole it to push their cult. This is not a greenlight to start chugging bacon grease and putting whole sticks of butter in your coffee.
The conditioning is hard to break, eh, soijak?
Post body fatass
Classic soi rage. What's it like living with cognitive dissonance?
>He doesn't peat.
Is bad
Mechanical Oil Designed Only for Killing
> Helianthus annuus
Black cumin seed oil + fenugreek + turmeric = extremely potent kratom potentiator
It's just chemistry. Who gives a shit what something was made from. You can make grape soda from fricking surgical gloves.
big nose people make sneed oil, cottonseed worthless so big nose people use bad chemical to take fat out of cottenseed and pay big nose scientist to say it good for heart(it bad for heart)
I don’t know but I quit eating seed oils and my appetite went WAY down. Could be placebo but it’s been 3 months now and I’m still loosing weight.
>pic shows seeds in a wooden bowl, wooden spoon, and the oil in a glass jar, all very traditional and wholistic feeling
>meanwhile in reality
Olives
>squeeze olive
Butter
>churn cream
animal fat
>cut the fat off the animal
Yeah, I'll stick with traditional fats, thanks
I'm guessing cooking spray is awful too
How do people reconcile "Eat as unprocessed as possible" with seed oils being *that* processed?
Can't be touchin that olive oil, they use chemicals in the processing of it too.
>inb4 extra virgin
Do you really believe Italians aren't trying to fleece you?
Waaa it uses machinery!!!
Surely my dairt factory doesnt use anything other than buxom milk maidens to hand-milk the cows and toil all day churning it into butter
Just act ChatGPT cuck
Just went to the store, paid attention to ingredient lists and damn it's in a lot of shit. Why the frick does bread need basedbean oil in it?