yes it fricking works
easily the most studied supplement in history
and all studies agree that yes it does work and it has no health implications.
roughly a 10% uplift in the volume you can work, whether that's by increasing weight or reps.
and its cheap as frick, costing like 60-80 shekels for an entire year's supply.
every lifter should be on creatine permanently.
Will piss foam on even if you haven't had enough protein when you take creatine? How are you supposed to tell if you have had enough protein if your piss will foam even if you don't eat enough protein?
>every lifter should be on creatine permanently.
but my canister instructions are telling me to have like 1 month no-creatine breaks for every 3 months of creatine use
>Do not care. It literally does nothing. I know because I used it. Not even within the range of a placebo effect.
the science also tells us that a small portion of people are non-responders
specifically because they have really good genetics when it comes to storing creatine, so they walk around with creatine-saturated muscles all the time (assuming a decent diet, ofc)
if that's you, congratz, you won a small genetic lottery.
for the rest of the population, creatine is basically free gains and they should be on it 24/7/365
>easily the most studied supplement in history
yet none on DHT levels because it would annihilate sales if it was confirmed that creatine increases DHT
a) only one study ever reported an increase in DHT levels
b) the increase was ~10%, which is basically nothing. exercise yields about a ~40% increase.
and most importantly,
c) the whole point is 100% moot.
if you are not prone to mpb, any increase in dht is irrelevant. you'll die with a full head of hair regardless.
and if you are prone to mpb, you're going bald anyway.
if you'd like to prevent that, you don't need to avoid creatine, you need to start using fin immediately.
and if you are using fin, you can easily overpower any increase in dht, even the monumental increases that come with taking test in supraphysiological doses. a measly 10% from creatine (assuming that it actually happens, which is probably not the case) is nothing.
tldr frick you, eat shit, die, i hope your dead body is thrown in the Ganges river so a billion pajeets can shit on it daily.
You're moronic.
1. The increase was 40%
2. I take fin and creatine makes me shed a shitton. And no, it's not a le coincidence xD I've tried it several times because homosexuals like you keep baiting me into thinking it's le most researched supplement ever. But everytime, within a few weeks of taking it, my hair starts shedding in droves. And everytime, without exception, when I stop taking it, the shedding stops.
I hope you die from suffaction of shit from nicocados butthole creaBlack person
>1. The increase was 40%
surprisingly yes, it was.
however, the overall body of evidence is still pretty strong that the study was bullshit.
check the "Does creatine cause hair loss / baldness?" section here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7871530/
>I take fin and creatine makes me shed a shitton.
you're lying.
if you were on fin you'd be easily able to counteract any and all DHT increases by upping the dose.
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7871530/ >Competing interests >JA is Chief Executive Officer of the ISSN, an academic non-profit that receives support [...] from companies that manufacture and/or sell creatine >Furthermore, DGC has previously served as the Chief Scientific Officer for a company that sells creatine products. >SCF has served as a scientific advisor for a company that sells creatine products. >In addition, BG serves on the Scientific Advisory Board for Alzchem (a company that manufactures creatine). >ARJ has consulted with and received external funding from companies that sell certain dietary ingredients >Additionally, he [RBK] serves as Chair of the Scientific Advisory Board for Alzchem that manufactures creatine monohydrate. >ESR serves on the Scientific Advisory Board for Alzchem (a company which manufactures creatine). In addition, ESR received financial compensation to deliver the President’s Lecture on creatine supplementation at the 2019 ISSN annual conference. >In addition, AESR serves on the Scientific Advisory Board for Alzchem (a company that manufactures creatine). >TAV has received funding to study creatine and is an advisor for supplement companies who sell creatine. >In addition, DSW is Past President of the ISSN and has received financial compensation from the ISSN to speak about creatine supplementation.
8 months ago
Anonymous
ngl, that shit looks bad. i missed it, my bad.
>It is important to note that the results of van der Merwe et al. [61] have not been replicated
Okay now show me the results that debunk it. Saying "it's not been replicated" is irrelevant, prove that replication has been attempted and failed and I will concede and start taking creatine, as would so many others. The fact that creatine=moreDHT is still thrown around so often in discussion and yet the multimillion dollar industry has done NOTHING to prove it wrong is a major red flag. Literally the majority of men will experience hairloss at some point and confirming that creatine increases DHT levels would destory sales as it would effect over 50% of it's consumers.
>and that intense resistance exercise itself can cause increases in these androgenic hormones.
Wowee who gives a flying frick? To be healthy and functioning, exercise is non-negotiable. Creatine usage is. Why would I want to DOUBLE the DHT effects of exercise by also taking creatine?
I and many others make our peace with losing a few years of hairline to exercise, absolutely no need to pay fricking money to increase that rate.
>b-but everyone should take it
Shill behavior. Show me the studies that conclusively PROVE it does not effect DHT levels and I will concede and start taking creatine, but you won't because they haven't been done, because
I would love to be wrong, I would love to take creatine, but it's not worth going bald over.
>Okay now show me the results that debunk it.
nobody has tried specifically to debunk the study
however the paper i posted specifically mentions several other studies that did look at hormones, and none of them found anything similar to the Merwe study.
>and yet the multimillion dollar industry has done NOTHING to prove it wrong
i think you may be overestimating the size/influence of the supplement industry.
or at least how much they care about creatine.
i bet nowadays they make most of their money on bunk preworkout formulas with too much caffeine
creatine is a commodity good, available for rock bottom prices from everyone everywhere
i doubt they make significant profit from it, and i doubt they care about a bunch of workout shizos arguing about studies in a micronesian flyfishing forum.
and again, i wanna emphasize:
if you're going bald, just get the frick on fin.
trying to avoid baldness by avoiding creatine is tarded. >muh ill get bald faster
so the frick what, you'll still go bald anyway. you either wanna stop it or you don't.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>however the paper i posted specifically mentions several other studies that did look at hormones, and none of them found anything similar to the Merwe study.
Because none of them measured DHT, only free test. Free test gets converted to DHT, so more free test = more DHT.
Curiously, creatine seems to increase DHT despite not affecting free test levels. A common theory is that it upregulates 5 alpha reductase, kind of like a reverse finasteride. Until more research is performed, we'll never know.
>i doubt they make significant profit from it, and i doubt they care about a bunch of workout shizos arguing about studies in a micronesian flyfishing forum.
creatine is pretty profitable since it can be made extremely cheap. I agree with you though, I don't think there is a big creatine mafia conspiracy behind all of this, but the question remains why among the "most researched supplement" on earth only 1 out of 700 studies looked at DHT. They simply are not funding anything that they already know will likely yield negative results.
And the general scientific interest about a niche supplement and a non-fatal side effect (hair loss) that most people aren't even aware of, is going to be pretty low, so the chances of a random biochem lab researching creatine side effects isn't great.
I don't want to ban creatine or anything but I simply think that due to mine and hundreds of pieces of anecdotal evidence that there is some merit to the theory that creatine at least accelerates hair loss in some men.
You can still take creatine, I won't stop you.
I just hate that so many real experiences are simply handwaved away under the false pretense that there is established research that creatine DOESN'T cause hair loss, because there isn't (just as there is no researcht that it DOES cause hair loss). There simply isn't anything, that's all.
8 months ago
Anonymous
first of all, checked.
second, re: the Merwe study, the paper i linked states that
"Furthermore, baseline (prior to supplementation), DHT was 23% lower in the creatine group (0.98 nmol/L) compared to the placebo group (1.26 nmol/L). Thus the small increase in DHT in the creatine group (+ 0.55 nmol/L after 7 days of supplementation and + 0.40 nmol/L after 21 days of supplementation), in combination with a small decrease in the placebo DHT response (-0.17 nmol/L after 7 days of supplementation and -0.20 nmol/L after 21 days of supplementation) explains the “statistically significant” increase in DHT noted by van der Merwe et al. "
aka it was probably a legit anomaly.
>Curiously, creatine seems to increase DHT despite not affecting free test levels. A common theory is that it upregulates 5 alpha reductase, kind of like a reverse finasteride
given the results from Merwe and the other studies that found no increases in total or free test, that would be the only viable mechanism of action
im not a doctor, so i can't opine on how likely it is that creatine supplementation would affect 5a-reductase production or action
but in any case, fin inhibits 5a-reductase, so even if creatine acts in this manner, it can counteract it.
third, re: why it has not been researched yet, i think nobody really gives a shit
and those that do might be too afraid of a negative result.
fourth, creatine has a 30+ year tenure as a widely available supplement, and yet reports of hair loss on it were non-existent prior to the Merwe study
im in my 30s, have been working out since i was a teen, and i don't recall any mentions of creatine caused hairloss until recently
and fifth and most important, again, those that are losing their hair need to get on fin
worrying about creatine is moronic.
go to the /fraud/ thread and ask about avoiding hairloss, and they'll tell you straight up that you need to get on fin and then you can blast grams of test with no ill effects (on your hair)
8 months ago
Anonymous
>go to the /fraud/ thread and ask about avoiding hairloss, and they'll tell you straight up that you need to get on fin >go to the HRT general and they'll tell you straight up to take hormone blockers
lmao
I thought you were a creatine shill but now I think you're probably a fin shill
8 months ago
Anonymous
Nta but fin is perfectly fine. Every man who is balding should take it just for his sanity
8 months ago
Anonymous
ive always wondered how you homosexuals deal with the fact that healthy living, like eating healthy foods, going for walks, resistance training all naturally increases your dht.
Do you also avoid eating meat to not consume too much creatine?
so many unanswered questions in the mind of a chud.
8 months ago
Anonymous
none of these things increase it by almost 50% Black person
and whatever. maybe it's not the DHT
but something in it accelerates hair loss whether you like it or not
8 months ago
Anonymous
Trips of truth. My anecdotal evidence is that when I was working 7 days a week from nov 22 to feb 23 while taking creatine every single day proves that it’s all genetic because I kept my hair. No shedding no nothing and I’m 30. I quit now from all those studies because I don’t wanna trigger anything. Unfortunately I have a big tub of creatine open. FRICK I loved being on creatine, now I’m a weak shit with hair lol
8 months ago
Anonymous
>proves that it’s all genetic because I kept my hair. No shedding no nothing and I’m 30.
just out of curiosity (not trying to debunk your experience, I think you're right), how was your hairline before and did you notice any "regular" shedding before?
I started taking it at 29 for roughly 1.5 months and had a nearly perfect NW1 before and never even lost as much as one hair in the shower. Suddenly I started losing hair by the dozen in the shower and feeling my scalp itch. I noticed a tiny recession (nothing that you would see unless you looked at a before/after picture) and I'm still a solid NW1.5 at now 30. So I don't think I have bad MPB genetics (quite the opposite) but SOMETHING about the creatine must have triggered an insane shedding process for me. It stopped within a few weeks of me stopping creatine.
But I was also a hyper-responder to creatine itself. It made me look much fuller and added like 10% on a lot of lifts. I miss it, but I can't deal with the hair loss, so no can do.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Just take fin, Black person. You will have to hop on it at some point in your 30s anyway.
8 months ago
Anonymous
That’s me when I was using in January bro
8 months ago
Anonymous
https://i.imgur.com/H3hIjAN.jpg
[...]
Here is me after 7 months of no creatine. Mind you I’m doing HIT and train every 4-7 days so I don’t trigger so much DHT
sorry ignore my moronic delteted post from before
mirin quads
do not see much difference between creatine and no creatine
so I guess I'm not losing much by skipping it
thanks
8 months ago
Anonymous
https://i.imgur.com/viwceDI.jpg
That’s me when I was using in January bro
Here is me after 7 months of no creatine. Mind you I’m doing HIT and train every 4-7 days so I don’t trigger so much DHT
8 months ago
Anonymous
>nobody has tried specifically to debunk the study
Curious >however the paper i posted specifically mentions several other studies that did look at hormones, and none of them found anything similar to the Merwe study.
lol >Two studies reported small, physiologically insignificant increases in total testosterone after six and seven days of supplementation [65, 66] >six and seven days
lmao >physiologically insignificant >65: short-term creatine supplementation >testosterone concentration was significantly greater in CR compared to PL after supplementation period >effects of creatine supplementation on hormonal responses are unclear >ctrl-F DHT - 0 results
lol >66: Cr group had significant higher resting testosterone concentration compared to Pl group after 5 and 7 days of creatine loading (P < 0.05) >ctrl-F DHT - 0 results
lmao
1/2
8 months ago
Anonymous
>nobody has tried specifically to debunk the study
Curious >however the paper i posted specifically mentions several other studies that did look at hormones, and none of them found anything similar to the Merwe study.
lol >Two studies reported small, physiologically insignificant increases in total testosterone after six and seven days of supplementation [65, 66] >six and seven days
lmao >physiologically insignificant >65: short-term creatine supplementation >testosterone concentration was significantly greater in CR compared to PL after supplementation period >effects of creatine supplementation on hormonal responses are unclear >ctrl-F DHT - 0 results
lol >66: Cr group had significant higher resting testosterone concentration compared to Pl group after 5 and 7 days of creatine loading (P < 0.05) >ctrl-F DHT - 0 results
lmao
1/2
2/2
>In five of these studies [67–71], free testosterone, which the body uses to produce DHT, was also measured and no increases were found. >67: Salivary testosterone was not affected by sleep deprivation, but trended higher with the 100 mg/kg creatine dose, compared to the placebo treatment >10 separate occasions across a 10 week period (not less than three days apart) >One fricking 4.5g creatine tablet every 3 days
Yeah I bet that's fricking accurate give that you need to be on like 5g a day for it to work >ctrl-F DHT - 0 results
I'm not even going to bother going through studies 68-70. These studies are an absolute joke that prove nothing of any value.
>i think you may be overestimating the size/influence of the supplement industry. >or at least how much they care about creatine.
I am not. They care enough to make it the most studied supplement on the planet, but not enough to put the DHT worries to rest? As the other guy said, there's no mafia but it's suspicious as frick and they clearly don't want to confirm what we all know, which is why they use these shady "studies" to say it's clean.
>just le hop on fin!
No. How can you not understand that people don't want to increase their rate of balding but also don't want to tank their DHT levels with troony drugs? You are coping hard or just moronic. There is a big difference between going bald at 40 or 30. I don't want more DHT but I don't want none of it. Get that through your thick finasteride riddled skull and stop shilling creatine as safe for everyone when until proven otherwise we can conclude from what we know that it will increase the rate of balding in the majority of men.
>It is important to note that the results of van der Merwe et al. [61] have not been replicated
Okay now show me the results that debunk it. Saying "it's not been replicated" is irrelevant, prove that replication has been attempted and failed and I will concede and start taking creatine, as would so many others. The fact that creatine=moreDHT is still thrown around so often in discussion and yet the multimillion dollar industry has done NOTHING to prove it wrong is a major red flag. Literally the majority of men will experience hairloss at some point and confirming that creatine increases DHT levels would destory sales as it would effect over 50% of it's consumers.
>and that intense resistance exercise itself can cause increases in these androgenic hormones.
Wowee who gives a flying frick? To be healthy and functioning, exercise is non-negotiable. Creatine usage is. Why would I want to DOUBLE the DHT effects of exercise by also taking creatine?
I and many others make our peace with losing a few years of hairline to exercise, absolutely no need to pay fricking money to increase that rate.
>b-but everyone should take it
Shill behavior. Show me the studies that conclusively PROVE it does not effect DHT levels and I will concede and start taking creatine, but you won't because they haven't been done, because
I would love to be wrong, I would love to take creatine, but it's not worth going bald over.
>a) only one study ever reported an increase in DHT levels >b) the increase was ~10%, which is basically nothing. exercise yields about a ~40% increase.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19741313/ >Results: After 7 days of creatine loading, or a further 14 days of creatine maintenance dose, serum T levels did not change. However, levels of DHT increased by 56% after 7 days of creatine loading and remained 40% above baseline after 14 days maintenance (P < 0.001). The ratio of DHT:T also increased by 36% after 7 days creatine supplementation and remained elevated by 22% after the maintenance dose (P < 0.01).
moron
>if you are not prone to mpb, any increase in dht is irrelevant. you'll die with a full head of hair regardless. >and if you are prone to mpb, you're going bald anyway.
Yes which is why I said DHT levels and not that it causes baldness, moron. This is absolutely major cope and unironically makes me think you're a shill.
A crazy high amount of people have MPB genes and something that DIRECTLY increases DHT levels will increase the rate of that baldness, end of discussion. That is enough to kill creatine sales if it is confirmed because MPB genes are so prevalent. Who cares about the people without the MPB gene? They'll buy it regardless. The shill I was replying to, I'm guessing (you), said; >every lifter should be on creatine permanently.
but clearly not the ones who have MPB and don't want to go bald 10 years earlier. >if you'd like to prevent that, you don't need to avoid creatine, you need to start using fin immediately.
lmao I'm not taking your troony drugs. It's not about prevention, it's about not needlessly accelerating the process and taking baldness from 40 to 30. have a nice day, pharmashill
10% of a hormone that's extremely potent is a lot, it's like saying >hey bro gimme some bulk i'll sell ya my hairline!
Creatine would only be worth it if it made your donger bigger too.
More DHT is GOOD
Creatine works, for the most part it just gives you better work capacity rather than a significant uptick in absolute strength >You'd normally get 10, 9, 8, 7 reps with a weight >now you can get 10, 10, 9, 9
stuff like that, which is obviously beneficial
Sigh
In the end you have to try it.
I'm sitting on a 2kg jar of creatine, but never bothered to take it every day, such a hassle to dissolve it in warm water
you don't need to dissolve anything, just let it disperse in whatever liquid and drink it, shit you could dry ball it if you wanted to
>More DHT is GOOD
Then why hasn't "the most studied supplement in history" done the incredibly simple study to conclusively prove its effect on DHT?
Is it because if it does then sales will plummet as it would therefore prove that it increases the rate of balding in anyone who takes it? That is, the overwhelming majority of males?
>take a few groups of athletes and sedenatries of different ages >give half creatine daily relative to bodyweight, other half placebo >measure DHT levels over 6 months
Incredibly simple to do. Why hasn't it been done? They Sure it wouldn't be free to do a 6 month experiment, but they just need to do it ONCE to nail the coffin shut on creatine=faster hairloss, which given that the overwhelming majority of men experience hairloss and don't want to speed that up even if they won't resort to nuking their test levels with literal hormone blockers like finasteride, would be a massive selling point and easily cover the costs in sales. They also spend frick knows how many millions studying every other aspect of creatine EXCEPT for it's effects on DHT levels.
Literally the only negative of creatine is potential hairloss, close that case and you have a wondersupplement with no side-effects that is all upside. Instead we get absolute jokes of metastudies like the ones I picked apart earlier ITT that misconstrue data to decieve people into thinking there is no side effects.
Three Weeks of Creatine Monohydrate Supplementation Affects ... : Clinical Journal of Sport Medicine https://journals.lww.com/cjsportsmed/abstract/2009/09000/three_weeks_of_creatine_monohydrate.9.aspx
yea, that's the one and only study ever to find such an effect, the one we're all arguing about.
why are you posting it again?
8 months ago
Anonymous
I'm pretty sure people just link studies without reading them in the hopes that others will assume they must be right because why else would they have linked a study?
Yes that is the Merwe rugby study that shows DHT levels increasing by up to 40% after the loading phase. The study that has "never been replicated" yet never even attempted to be replicated because they are clearly scared of the results if they try, assuming they haven't already and just burned the results lol
>baldness is le good
moron.
DHT is great but there is no need to pay money to elevate it to stupid levels through whatever mechanism creatine uses to increase ratio of DHT to Testosterone.
>stupid levels
not even close.
stupid levels is what you get when you do roids and are walking around with 10 times as much free test as normal
> whatever mechanism creatine uses to increase ratio of DHT to Testosterone
as already discussed above, the only possible mechanism for this effect would be an increase in the production of 5a-reductase.
we have studies that show creatine has no significant effects on total and free test, so increased conversion is the only remaining possibility.
> after puberty DHT literally kills you
don't fricking exaggerate
having way too much (as in steroid doses way too much) can definitely be a worry for prostate issues
and also obv. balding if you are prone
otherwise dht is very benign
>stupid levels is what you get when you do roids and are walking around with 10 times as much free test as normal
40% is significant enough to affect baldness as reducing it by a relative percentage can slow baldness.
>as already discussed above, the only possible mechanism for this effect would be an increase in the production of 5a-reductase. >we have studies that show creatine has no significant effects on total and free test, so increased conversion is the only remaining possibility.
I am aware, this doesn't change anything I said. Total and free test are not what affects baldness, DHT is and that hasn't been debunked in any of the creatine studies. Also as I pointed out above, despite the meta studies saying "no significant increase" in test, all of the studies it is referrencing say that it DOES increase the amount of test by significant levels, meaning even if it doesn't increase 5AR and the resultant ratios of DHT it will increase the net amount within the same ratio. We don't know though because they haven't fricking studied DHT levels in relation to creatine intake and they won't for some reason.
You would know this if you had actually read the thread.
>> after puberty DHT literally kills you >don't fricking exaggerate
Not my post. I have no problem with healthy DHT levels even if they've been elevated by diet and exercise, but I will not elevate it by a further FORTY FRICKING PERCENT by taking creatine, even if you're disingenuous enough to say 40% is not significant.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>40% is significant enough to affect baldness
certainly, im not arguing otherwise
just pointing out its not some insane increase like you would get from a steroid cycle, its very much physiological levels.
>despite the meta studies saying "no significant increase" in test, all of the studies it is referrencing say that it DOES increase the amount of test by significant levels
read the studies again, i just did.
yes, they show increase, but its nothing impressive, well within physiological range in all cases. >inb4 it was more than control
yes, sure. i assume the increased test is due to increased training capacity from creatine and/or placebo due to the subjects realizing they were actually taking creatine (its effect is strong enough to be felt by a non-beginner lifter)
also, its funny to me that people take random test boosters while creatine apparently does have studies showing that it increases test levels measurably.
>but I will not elevate it by a further FORTY FRICKING PERCENT by taking creatine
hey man, its your body, your choice
im comfy arguing the matter, as im not prone to mpb anyway, so i don't care too much either way.
but yea, as i mentioned previously numerous times, imo if some1 is prone to mpb, they need to get on fin asap, creatine or no creatine. and if some1 is on fin, they would easily be able to counteract whatever creatine-induced dht increases by minimally increasing their fin dose.
8 months ago
Anonymous
> t. Creatine seller
8 months ago
Anonymous
>read the studies again, i just did. >yes, they show increase, but its nothing impressive
You never read them in the first place or you wouldn't have linked them given that they don't back up your argument that
>1. The increase was 40%
surprisingly yes, it was.
however, the overall body of evidence is still pretty strong that the study was bullshit.
check the "Does creatine cause hair loss / baldness?" section here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7871530/
>I take fin and creatine makes me shed a shitton.
you're lying.
if you were on fin you'd be easily able to counteract any and all DHT increases by upping the dose.
>the overall body of evidence is still pretty strong that the study was bullshit
Which is horseshit. I won't waste my time rereading the studies I've already btfo'd so I'll just quote myself from here:
>nobody has tried specifically to debunk the study
Curious >however the paper i posted specifically mentions several other studies that did look at hormones, and none of them found anything similar to the Merwe study.
lol >Two studies reported small, physiologically insignificant increases in total testosterone after six and seven days of supplementation [65, 66] >six and seven days
lmao >physiologically insignificant >65: short-term creatine supplementation >testosterone concentration was significantly greater in CR compared to PL after supplementation period >effects of creatine supplementation on hormonal responses are unclear >ctrl-F DHT - 0 results
lol >66: Cr group had significant higher resting testosterone concentration compared to Pl group after 5 and 7 days of creatine loading (P < 0.05) >ctrl-F DHT - 0 results
lmao
1/2
insignificant >>>>>65: testosterone concentration was significantly greater in CR compared to PL after supplementation period >>>>>66: Cr group had significant higher resting testosterone concentration compared to Pl group
and my favourite >>ctrl-F DHT - 0 results
It's a moot point anyway because I fully reject your repeated position that total testosterone is relevant in any way. It's DHT levels that are relevant, yet all you can focus on is whether an increase in overall T levels is significant or not.
You said the rugby study was bullshit, it wasn't.
You keep saying Testosterone levels are relevant, they aren't.
>hey man, its your body, your choice >im comfy arguing the matter, as im not prone to mpb anyway, so i don't care too much either way.
Big leap from >tldr frick you, eat shit, die, i hope your dead body is thrown in the Ganges river so a billion pajeets can shit on it daily
and defending the initial >every lifter should be on creatine permanently
>they need to get on fin asap, creatine or no creatine
Holy shit you really are a fin shill, or just so dense that you STILL cannot wrap your head around the fact that some people can accept balding at 40 but don't want to accelarate it to 30, and also don't want to take literal hormone blockers or prolactin pills
For the lifter that does not want to take troony drugs to prevent balding and also does not want to accelarate balding from middle-age into their youth, creatine is not an option. Take your pharmashill paycheques and shove them up your ass
kys
8 months ago
Anonymous
>For the lifter that does not want to take troony drugs to prevent balding and also does not want to accelarate balding from middle-age into their youth, creatine is not an option.
>stop this meme already
I'll stop the meme when it's proven wrong.
I fricking WANT to be proven wrong, but every study that has been posted to prove me wrong has been horseshit, and morons like you post non arguments like this.
>creatine effect on the mind are underrated
This. Google adenosine triphosphate and check what it does if you don't believe.
>bought into the creatine israelite psyops >gains 10lbs of water weight >lol your hairline >still trains like a beeitch >kidneys rot away and fall out your ass by 50
NGMI
>bought into the creatine israelite psyops >gains 10lbs of water weight >lol your hairline >still trains like a beeitch >kidneys rot away and fall out your ass by 50
NGMI
>mix creatine with my pre-workout >chug like a motherfricker >beta-alanine makes my body tingle like frick for a solid 10 minutes
Oh yeah, it's lifting time.
Creatine doesn’t do shit if you get in your calories and have sufficient meat in your diet.
The only time I’ve felt a difference on creatine was when I was fasting for the Great Lent.
Your hair is fricking grey and you still have the hairline of a 25-35 year old
You are literally blessed with good hair genetics
You are also too old to be posting here
GTFO
alledgedly it's the one and only supplement (that is anything goimg beyond a solid whole food diet while not being literal juice) that really does work and generates a measureable effect in every single user.
Still not gonna use but yes according to majority opinion, majority of scientific literature etc. it does work
unlike all the other hypeshit
In the end you have to try it.
I'm sitting on a 2kg jar of creatine, but never bothered to take it every day, such a hassle to dissolve it in warm water
>hairline is the same as when I started (maybe it affects some men, but that hasn't been my experience) >haven't noticed any bloating >haven't noticed any increased water retention >haven't noticed any significant strength gains
I toss a scoop into my morning shake because it's easy and I can afford it, but I wouldn't consider it necessary. Take it or don't, but manage your expectations if you do.
Creatine Monohydrate makes me feel fricking queasy for half an hour after taking, is there any way to fix this? I've almost thrown up a couple times, taking it with or without food.
try creapure specifically
i've never heard of nausea as a side effect, but i do know that creapure is supposed to eliminate the diarrhea some people get during the loading phase.
yes it fricking works
easily the most studied supplement in history
and all studies agree that yes it does work and it has no health implications.
roughly a 10% uplift in the volume you can work, whether that's by increasing weight or reps.
and its cheap as frick, costing like 60-80 shekels for an entire year's supply.
every lifter should be on creatine permanently.
But my kidney
your kidneys will be fine.
again, most studied supplement in history
if it caused issues, we'd know about it. it doesn't.
My piss is foaming
His piss is foaming.
Will piss foam on even if you haven't had enough protein when you take creatine? How are you supposed to tell if you have had enough protein if your piss will foam even if you don't eat enough protein?
thought it caused prostrate cancer ?
Caffeine prevents prostate cancer
Guess what they include with most creatine pre workout supplements in enormous doses
>Guess what they include with most creatine pre workout supplements in enormous doses
it's prostate cancer
>t. creatine
your kidney will only be in danger if you dont drink enough water. if you drink 3L a day youll be fine.
>every lifter should be on creatine permanently.
but my canister instructions are telling me to have like 1 month no-creatine breaks for every 3 months of creatine use
ignore them
but ill die
no you won't
and if you do, post here to let us know
alright ill let you guys know
for you
Nope
>most ~~*studied*~~
Do not care. It literally does nothing. I know because I used it. Not even within the range of a placebo effect.
>Do not care. It literally does nothing. I know because I used it. Not even within the range of a placebo effect.
the science also tells us that a small portion of people are non-responders
specifically because they have really good genetics when it comes to storing creatine, so they walk around with creatine-saturated muscles all the time (assuming a decent diet, ofc)
if that's you, congratz, you won a small genetic lottery.
for the rest of the population, creatine is basically free gains and they should be on it 24/7/365
>easily the most studied supplement in history
yet none on DHT levels because it would annihilate sales if it was confirmed that creatine increases DHT
curious
you're moronic.
a) only one study ever reported an increase in DHT levels
b) the increase was ~10%, which is basically nothing. exercise yields about a ~40% increase.
and most importantly,
c) the whole point is 100% moot.
if you are not prone to mpb, any increase in dht is irrelevant. you'll die with a full head of hair regardless.
and if you are prone to mpb, you're going bald anyway.
if you'd like to prevent that, you don't need to avoid creatine, you need to start using fin immediately.
and if you are using fin, you can easily overpower any increase in dht, even the monumental increases that come with taking test in supraphysiological doses. a measly 10% from creatine (assuming that it actually happens, which is probably not the case) is nothing.
tldr frick you, eat shit, die, i hope your dead body is thrown in the Ganges river so a billion pajeets can shit on it daily.
You're moronic.
1. The increase was 40%
2. I take fin and creatine makes me shed a shitton. And no, it's not a le coincidence xD I've tried it several times because homosexuals like you keep baiting me into thinking it's le most researched supplement ever. But everytime, within a few weeks of taking it, my hair starts shedding in droves. And everytime, without exception, when I stop taking it, the shedding stops.
I hope you die from suffaction of shit from nicocados butthole creaBlack person
>1. The increase was 40%
surprisingly yes, it was.
however, the overall body of evidence is still pretty strong that the study was bullshit.
check the "Does creatine cause hair loss / baldness?" section here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7871530/
>I take fin and creatine makes me shed a shitton.
you're lying.
if you were on fin you'd be easily able to counteract any and all DHT increases by upping the dose.
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7871530/
>Competing interests
>JA is Chief Executive Officer of the ISSN, an academic non-profit that receives support [...] from companies that manufacture and/or sell creatine
>Furthermore, DGC has previously served as the Chief Scientific Officer for a company that sells creatine products.
>SCF has served as a scientific advisor for a company that sells creatine products.
>In addition, BG serves on the Scientific Advisory Board for Alzchem (a company that manufactures creatine).
>ARJ has consulted with and received external funding from companies that sell certain dietary ingredients
>Additionally, he [RBK] serves as Chair of the Scientific Advisory Board for Alzchem that manufactures creatine monohydrate.
>ESR serves on the Scientific Advisory Board for Alzchem (a company which manufactures creatine). In addition, ESR received financial compensation to deliver the President’s Lecture on creatine supplementation at the 2019 ISSN annual conference.
>In addition, AESR serves on the Scientific Advisory Board for Alzchem (a company that manufactures creatine).
>TAV has received funding to study creatine and is an advisor for supplement companies who sell creatine.
>In addition, DSW is Past President of the ISSN and has received financial compensation from the ISSN to speak about creatine supplementation.
ngl, that shit looks bad. i missed it, my bad.
>Okay now show me the results that debunk it.
nobody has tried specifically to debunk the study
however the paper i posted specifically mentions several other studies that did look at hormones, and none of them found anything similar to the Merwe study.
>and yet the multimillion dollar industry has done NOTHING to prove it wrong
i think you may be overestimating the size/influence of the supplement industry.
or at least how much they care about creatine.
i bet nowadays they make most of their money on bunk preworkout formulas with too much caffeine
creatine is a commodity good, available for rock bottom prices from everyone everywhere
i doubt they make significant profit from it, and i doubt they care about a bunch of workout shizos arguing about studies in a micronesian flyfishing forum.
and again, i wanna emphasize:
if you're going bald, just get the frick on fin.
trying to avoid baldness by avoiding creatine is tarded.
>muh ill get bald faster
so the frick what, you'll still go bald anyway. you either wanna stop it or you don't.
>however the paper i posted specifically mentions several other studies that did look at hormones, and none of them found anything similar to the Merwe study.
Because none of them measured DHT, only free test. Free test gets converted to DHT, so more free test = more DHT.
Curiously, creatine seems to increase DHT despite not affecting free test levels. A common theory is that it upregulates 5 alpha reductase, kind of like a reverse finasteride. Until more research is performed, we'll never know.
>i doubt they make significant profit from it, and i doubt they care about a bunch of workout shizos arguing about studies in a micronesian flyfishing forum.
creatine is pretty profitable since it can be made extremely cheap. I agree with you though, I don't think there is a big creatine mafia conspiracy behind all of this, but the question remains why among the "most researched supplement" on earth only 1 out of 700 studies looked at DHT. They simply are not funding anything that they already know will likely yield negative results.
And the general scientific interest about a niche supplement and a non-fatal side effect (hair loss) that most people aren't even aware of, is going to be pretty low, so the chances of a random biochem lab researching creatine side effects isn't great.
I don't want to ban creatine or anything but I simply think that due to mine and hundreds of pieces of anecdotal evidence that there is some merit to the theory that creatine at least accelerates hair loss in some men.
You can still take creatine, I won't stop you.
I just hate that so many real experiences are simply handwaved away under the false pretense that there is established research that creatine DOESN'T cause hair loss, because there isn't (just as there is no researcht that it DOES cause hair loss). There simply isn't anything, that's all.
first of all, checked.
second, re: the Merwe study, the paper i linked states that
"Furthermore, baseline (prior to supplementation), DHT was 23% lower in the creatine group (0.98 nmol/L) compared to the placebo group (1.26 nmol/L). Thus the small increase in DHT in the creatine group (+ 0.55 nmol/L after 7 days of supplementation and + 0.40 nmol/L after 21 days of supplementation), in combination with a small decrease in the placebo DHT response (-0.17 nmol/L after 7 days of supplementation and -0.20 nmol/L after 21 days of supplementation) explains the “statistically significant” increase in DHT noted by van der Merwe et al. "
aka it was probably a legit anomaly.
>Curiously, creatine seems to increase DHT despite not affecting free test levels. A common theory is that it upregulates 5 alpha reductase, kind of like a reverse finasteride
given the results from Merwe and the other studies that found no increases in total or free test, that would be the only viable mechanism of action
im not a doctor, so i can't opine on how likely it is that creatine supplementation would affect 5a-reductase production or action
but in any case, fin inhibits 5a-reductase, so even if creatine acts in this manner, it can counteract it.
third, re: why it has not been researched yet, i think nobody really gives a shit
and those that do might be too afraid of a negative result.
fourth, creatine has a 30+ year tenure as a widely available supplement, and yet reports of hair loss on it were non-existent prior to the Merwe study
im in my 30s, have been working out since i was a teen, and i don't recall any mentions of creatine caused hairloss until recently
and fifth and most important, again, those that are losing their hair need to get on fin
worrying about creatine is moronic.
go to the /fraud/ thread and ask about avoiding hairloss, and they'll tell you straight up that you need to get on fin and then you can blast grams of test with no ill effects (on your hair)
>go to the /fraud/ thread and ask about avoiding hairloss, and they'll tell you straight up that you need to get on fin
>go to the HRT general and they'll tell you straight up to take hormone blockers
lmao
I thought you were a creatine shill but now I think you're probably a fin shill
Nta but fin is perfectly fine. Every man who is balding should take it just for his sanity
ive always wondered how you homosexuals deal with the fact that healthy living, like eating healthy foods, going for walks, resistance training all naturally increases your dht.
Do you also avoid eating meat to not consume too much creatine?
so many unanswered questions in the mind of a chud.
none of these things increase it by almost 50% Black person
and whatever. maybe it's not the DHT
but something in it accelerates hair loss whether you like it or not
Trips of truth. My anecdotal evidence is that when I was working 7 days a week from nov 22 to feb 23 while taking creatine every single day proves that it’s all genetic because I kept my hair. No shedding no nothing and I’m 30. I quit now from all those studies because I don’t wanna trigger anything. Unfortunately I have a big tub of creatine open. FRICK I loved being on creatine, now I’m a weak shit with hair lol
>proves that it’s all genetic because I kept my hair. No shedding no nothing and I’m 30.
just out of curiosity (not trying to debunk your experience, I think you're right), how was your hairline before and did you notice any "regular" shedding before?
I started taking it at 29 for roughly 1.5 months and had a nearly perfect NW1 before and never even lost as much as one hair in the shower. Suddenly I started losing hair by the dozen in the shower and feeling my scalp itch. I noticed a tiny recession (nothing that you would see unless you looked at a before/after picture) and I'm still a solid NW1.5 at now 30. So I don't think I have bad MPB genetics (quite the opposite) but SOMETHING about the creatine must have triggered an insane shedding process for me. It stopped within a few weeks of me stopping creatine.
But I was also a hyper-responder to creatine itself. It made me look much fuller and added like 10% on a lot of lifts. I miss it, but I can't deal with the hair loss, so no can do.
Just take fin, Black person. You will have to hop on it at some point in your 30s anyway.
That’s me when I was using in January bro
sorry ignore my moronic delteted post from before
mirin quads
do not see much difference between creatine and no creatine
so I guess I'm not losing much by skipping it
thanks
Here is me after 7 months of no creatine. Mind you I’m doing HIT and train every 4-7 days so I don’t trigger so much DHT
>nobody has tried specifically to debunk the study
Curious
>however the paper i posted specifically mentions several other studies that did look at hormones, and none of them found anything similar to the Merwe study.
lol
>Two studies reported small, physiologically insignificant increases in total testosterone after six and seven days of supplementation [65, 66]
>six and seven days
lmao
>physiologically insignificant
>65: short-term creatine supplementation
>testosterone concentration was significantly greater in CR compared to PL after supplementation period
>effects of creatine supplementation on hormonal responses are unclear
>ctrl-F DHT - 0 results
lol
>66: Cr group had significant higher resting testosterone concentration compared to Pl group after 5 and 7 days of creatine loading (P < 0.05)
>ctrl-F DHT - 0 results
lmao
1/2
2/2
>In five of these studies [67–71], free testosterone, which the body uses to produce DHT, was also measured and no increases were found.
>67: Salivary testosterone was not affected by sleep deprivation, but trended higher with the 100 mg/kg creatine dose, compared to the placebo treatment
>10 separate occasions across a 10 week period (not less than three days apart)
>One fricking 4.5g creatine tablet every 3 days
Yeah I bet that's fricking accurate give that you need to be on like 5g a day for it to work
>ctrl-F DHT - 0 results
I'm not even going to bother going through studies 68-70. These studies are an absolute joke that prove nothing of any value.
>i think you may be overestimating the size/influence of the supplement industry.
>or at least how much they care about creatine.
I am not. They care enough to make it the most studied supplement on the planet, but not enough to put the DHT worries to rest? As the other guy said, there's no mafia but it's suspicious as frick and they clearly don't want to confirm what we all know, which is why they use these shady "studies" to say it's clean.
>just le hop on fin!
No. How can you not understand that people don't want to increase their rate of balding but also don't want to tank their DHT levels with troony drugs? You are coping hard or just moronic. There is a big difference between going bald at 40 or 30. I don't want more DHT but I don't want none of it. Get that through your thick finasteride riddled skull and stop shilling creatine as safe for everyone when until proven otherwise we can conclude from what we know that it will increase the rate of balding in the majority of men.
>It is important to note that the results of van der Merwe et al. [61] have not been replicated
Okay now show me the results that debunk it. Saying "it's not been replicated" is irrelevant, prove that replication has been attempted and failed and I will concede and start taking creatine, as would so many others. The fact that creatine=moreDHT is still thrown around so often in discussion and yet the multimillion dollar industry has done NOTHING to prove it wrong is a major red flag. Literally the majority of men will experience hairloss at some point and confirming that creatine increases DHT levels would destory sales as it would effect over 50% of it's consumers.
>and that intense resistance exercise itself can cause increases in these androgenic hormones.
Wowee who gives a flying frick? To be healthy and functioning, exercise is non-negotiable. Creatine usage is. Why would I want to DOUBLE the DHT effects of exercise by also taking creatine?
I and many others make our peace with losing a few years of hairline to exercise, absolutely no need to pay fricking money to increase that rate.
>b-but everyone should take it
Shill behavior. Show me the studies that conclusively PROVE it does not effect DHT levels and I will concede and start taking creatine, but you won't because they haven't been done, because
I would love to be wrong, I would love to take creatine, but it's not worth going bald over.
>le coincidence xD
Stop doing this. This isn't reddit
>a) only one study ever reported an increase in DHT levels
>b) the increase was ~10%, which is basically nothing. exercise yields about a ~40% increase.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19741313/
>Results: After 7 days of creatine loading, or a further 14 days of creatine maintenance dose, serum T levels did not change. However, levels of DHT increased by 56% after 7 days of creatine loading and remained 40% above baseline after 14 days maintenance (P < 0.001). The ratio of DHT:T also increased by 36% after 7 days creatine supplementation and remained elevated by 22% after the maintenance dose (P < 0.01).
moron
>if you are not prone to mpb, any increase in dht is irrelevant. you'll die with a full head of hair regardless.
>and if you are prone to mpb, you're going bald anyway.
Yes which is why I said DHT levels and not that it causes baldness, moron. This is absolutely major cope and unironically makes me think you're a shill.
A crazy high amount of people have MPB genes and something that DIRECTLY increases DHT levels will increase the rate of that baldness, end of discussion. That is enough to kill creatine sales if it is confirmed because MPB genes are so prevalent. Who cares about the people without the MPB gene? They'll buy it regardless. The shill I was replying to, I'm guessing (you), said;
>every lifter should be on creatine permanently.
but clearly not the ones who have MPB and don't want to go bald 10 years earlier.
>if you'd like to prevent that, you don't need to avoid creatine, you need to start using fin immediately.
lmao I'm not taking your troony drugs. It's not about prevention, it's about not needlessly accelerating the process and taking baldness from 40 to 30. have a nice day, pharmashill
post body
post hairline
post finasteride syndrome
10% of a hormone that's extremely potent is a lot, it's like saying
>hey bro gimme some bulk i'll sell ya my hairline!
Creatine would only be worth it if it made your donger bigger too.
I got scalp itch and shedding on creatine. I tried it on two seperate occasions with the same outcome.
More DHT is GOOD
Creatine works, for the most part it just gives you better work capacity rather than a significant uptick in absolute strength
>You'd normally get 10, 9, 8, 7 reps with a weight
>now you can get 10, 10, 9, 9
stuff like that, which is obviously beneficial
you don't need to dissolve anything, just let it disperse in whatever liquid and drink it, shit you could dry ball it if you wanted to
>More DHT is GOOD
Then why hasn't "the most studied supplement in history" done the incredibly simple study to conclusively prove its effect on DHT?
Is it because if it does then sales will plummet as it would therefore prove that it increases the rate of balding in anyone who takes it? That is, the overwhelming majority of males?
why would that be "incredibly simple"?
>take a few groups of athletes and sedenatries of different ages
>give half creatine daily relative to bodyweight, other half placebo
>measure DHT levels over 6 months
Incredibly simple to do. Why hasn't it been done? They Sure it wouldn't be free to do a 6 month experiment, but they just need to do it ONCE to nail the coffin shut on creatine=faster hairloss, which given that the overwhelming majority of men experience hairloss and don't want to speed that up even if they won't resort to nuking their test levels with literal hormone blockers like finasteride, would be a massive selling point and easily cover the costs in sales. They also spend frick knows how many millions studying every other aspect of creatine EXCEPT for it's effects on DHT levels.
Literally the only negative of creatine is potential hairloss, close that case and you have a wondersupplement with no side-effects that is all upside. Instead we get absolute jokes of metastudies like the ones I picked apart earlier ITT that misconstrue data to decieve people into thinking there is no side effects.
Three Weeks of Creatine Monohydrate Supplementation Affects ... : Clinical Journal of Sport Medicine https://journals.lww.com/cjsportsmed/abstract/2009/09000/three_weeks_of_creatine_monohydrate.9.aspx
yea, that's the one and only study ever to find such an effect, the one we're all arguing about.
why are you posting it again?
I'm pretty sure people just link studies without reading them in the hopes that others will assume they must be right because why else would they have linked a study?
Yes that is the Merwe rugby study that shows DHT levels increasing by up to 40% after the loading phase. The study that has "never been replicated" yet never even attempted to be replicated because they are clearly scared of the results if they try, assuming they haven't already and just burned the results lol
>DHT is le bad
moron
>baldness is le good
moron.
DHT is great but there is no need to pay money to elevate it to stupid levels through whatever mechanism creatine uses to increase ratio of DHT to Testosterone.
>stupid levels
not even close.
stupid levels is what you get when you do roids and are walking around with 10 times as much free test as normal
> whatever mechanism creatine uses to increase ratio of DHT to Testosterone
as already discussed above, the only possible mechanism for this effect would be an increase in the production of 5a-reductase.
we have studies that show creatine has no significant effects on total and free test, so increased conversion is the only remaining possibility.
> after puberty DHT literally kills you
don't fricking exaggerate
having way too much (as in steroid doses way too much) can definitely be a worry for prostate issues
and also obv. balding if you are prone
otherwise dht is very benign
>stupid levels is what you get when you do roids and are walking around with 10 times as much free test as normal
40% is significant enough to affect baldness as reducing it by a relative percentage can slow baldness.
>as already discussed above, the only possible mechanism for this effect would be an increase in the production of 5a-reductase.
>we have studies that show creatine has no significant effects on total and free test, so increased conversion is the only remaining possibility.
I am aware, this doesn't change anything I said. Total and free test are not what affects baldness, DHT is and that hasn't been debunked in any of the creatine studies. Also as I pointed out above, despite the meta studies saying "no significant increase" in test, all of the studies it is referrencing say that it DOES increase the amount of test by significant levels, meaning even if it doesn't increase 5AR and the resultant ratios of DHT it will increase the net amount within the same ratio. We don't know though because they haven't fricking studied DHT levels in relation to creatine intake and they won't for some reason.
You would know this if you had actually read the thread.
>> after puberty DHT literally kills you
>don't fricking exaggerate
Not my post. I have no problem with healthy DHT levels even if they've been elevated by diet and exercise, but I will not elevate it by a further FORTY FRICKING PERCENT by taking creatine, even if you're disingenuous enough to say 40% is not significant.
>40% is significant enough to affect baldness
certainly, im not arguing otherwise
just pointing out its not some insane increase like you would get from a steroid cycle, its very much physiological levels.
>despite the meta studies saying "no significant increase" in test, all of the studies it is referrencing say that it DOES increase the amount of test by significant levels
read the studies again, i just did.
yes, they show increase, but its nothing impressive, well within physiological range in all cases.
>inb4 it was more than control
yes, sure. i assume the increased test is due to increased training capacity from creatine and/or placebo due to the subjects realizing they were actually taking creatine (its effect is strong enough to be felt by a non-beginner lifter)
also, its funny to me that people take random test boosters while creatine apparently does have studies showing that it increases test levels measurably.
>but I will not elevate it by a further FORTY FRICKING PERCENT by taking creatine
hey man, its your body, your choice
im comfy arguing the matter, as im not prone to mpb anyway, so i don't care too much either way.
but yea, as i mentioned previously numerous times, imo if some1 is prone to mpb, they need to get on fin asap, creatine or no creatine. and if some1 is on fin, they would easily be able to counteract whatever creatine-induced dht increases by minimally increasing their fin dose.
> t. Creatine seller
>read the studies again, i just did.
>yes, they show increase, but its nothing impressive
You never read them in the first place or you wouldn't have linked them given that they don't back up your argument that
>the overall body of evidence is still pretty strong that the study was bullshit
Which is horseshit. I won't waste my time rereading the studies I've already btfo'd so I'll just quote myself from here:
insignificant
>>>>>65: testosterone concentration was significantly greater in CR compared to PL after supplementation period
>>>>>66: Cr group had significant higher resting testosterone concentration compared to Pl group
and my favourite
>>ctrl-F DHT - 0 results
It's a moot point anyway because I fully reject your repeated position that total testosterone is relevant in any way. It's DHT levels that are relevant, yet all you can focus on is whether an increase in overall T levels is significant or not.
You said the rugby study was bullshit, it wasn't.
You keep saying Testosterone levels are relevant, they aren't.
>hey man, its your body, your choice
>im comfy arguing the matter, as im not prone to mpb anyway, so i don't care too much either way.
Big leap from
>tldr frick you, eat shit, die, i hope your dead body is thrown in the Ganges river so a billion pajeets can shit on it daily
and defending the initial
>every lifter should be on creatine permanently
>they need to get on fin asap, creatine or no creatine
Holy shit you really are a fin shill, or just so dense that you STILL cannot wrap your head around the fact that some people can accept balding at 40 but don't want to accelarate it to 30, and also don't want to take literal hormone blockers or prolactin pills
For the lifter that does not want to take troony drugs to prevent balding and also does not want to accelarate balding from middle-age into their youth, creatine is not an option. Take your pharmashill paycheques and shove them up your ass
kys
>For the lifter that does not want to take troony drugs to prevent balding and also does not want to accelarate balding from middle-age into their youth, creatine is not an option.
It never began for baldcels
>balding is caused by DHT
stop this meme already
>stop this meme already
I'll stop the meme when it's proven wrong.
I fricking WANT to be proven wrong, but every study that has been posted to prove me wrong has been horseshit, and morons like you post non arguments like this.
Mostly everyone hates DHT except a few contrarians,Im not going to debate you,but just a quick reminder that after puberty DHT literally kills you.
I didn't get a little scoop. I was told I would get a little scoop. WHERE IS MY SCOOP
probably buried somewhere in the bag
use a fork to fish it out.
It's always buried right at the bottom.
Not same guy but I bought a tub last week and there was no scoop. I dumped it into a gallon bag, no scoop.
Had to email them since the dosage was 1 scoop.
yeah it works
it also makes you retain water so you look all bloated and tubby
great for bulking, but forget it if you're maintaining your aesthetics
wrong
you retain water, yea, but only intramuscularly.
no reason to not use in a cut, it will not negatively affect aesthetics
wrong
it bloats up your face and abdomen
don't reply to me moron, I've used tons of creatine over the years, its the same every fricking time
1- creatine does work in around 80% of people
2- creatine effects on the body are overrated
3- creatine effect on the mind are underrated
>creatine effect on the mind are underrated
This. Google adenosine triphosphate and check what it does if you don't believe.
homosexuals like this are moronic.
>bought into the creatine israelite psyops
>gains 10lbs of water weight
>lol your hairline
>still trains like a beeitch
>kidneys rot away and fall out your ass by 50
NGMI
I stopped using it when it got stupidly expensive due to zoomers buying it or something. Didn't notice any change
>mix creatine with my pre-workout
>chug like a motherfricker
>beta-alanine makes my body tingle like frick for a solid 10 minutes
Oh yeah, it's lifting time.
Yep
>try creatine
>hairline recedes an inch after 6 months
T-thanks
*Makes you bald*
Creatine doesn’t do shit if you get in your calories and have sufficient meat in your diet.
The only time I’ve felt a difference on creatine was when I was fasting for the Great Lent.
your body makes creatine naturally and supplementing it may reduce this innate ability akin to how steroids can harm naturally test production.
no, you moron.
>your body makes collagen naturally and supplementing it may reduce this innate ability
t.
Your hair is fricking grey and you still have the hairline of a 25-35 year old
You are literally blessed with good hair genetics
You are also too old to be posting here
GTFO
>You are also too old to be posting here
>You are too old to be posting here
haha silly joke
t. 35 yrs old, here since 2006
alledgedly it's the one and only supplement (that is anything goimg beyond a solid whole food diet while not being literal juice) that really does work and generates a measureable effect in every single user.
Still not gonna use but yes according to majority opinion, majority of scientific literature etc. it does work
unlike all the other hypeshit
placebo, just blast tren if you want to die by 50
Its helps a basic function of the human body and is found in meat. saying "placebo" is like saying nutrient dense foods is placebo as well.
>you can achieve the results of steroids with muh speshul diet
no.
>reading comprehension level: 0
and where did all that reading get you, manlet?
Sigh
In the end you have to try it.
I'm sitting on a 2kg jar of creatine, but never bothered to take it every day, such a hassle to dissolve it in warm water
ive started using it like 2 weeks ago, had back cramp and leg cramp already
Drink more water moron lmaooooo
It makes you bloat (in a good way)
Where do you think that water comes from??
DHT go brrrr hair go bye bye!
>hairline is the same as when I started (maybe it affects some men, but that hasn't been my experience)
>haven't noticed any bloating
>haven't noticed any increased water retention
>haven't noticed any significant strength gains
I toss a scoop into my morning shake because it's easy and I can afford it, but I wouldn't consider it necessary. Take it or don't, but manage your expectations if you do.
whenever i take it i pull out handfuls of hair in the shower
Have you considered not pulling handfuls of hair out?
That means you aren't hydrating and/or pooping enough
Refusing to take creatine is akin to not squatting, benching and deadlifting but claiming you "lift"
Like wtf are you doing lmaoooooooo
Balding
Increases DHT
Creatine Monohydrate makes me feel fricking queasy for half an hour after taking, is there any way to fix this? I've almost thrown up a couple times, taking it with or without food.
try creapure specifically
i've never heard of nausea as a side effect, but i do know that creapure is supposed to eliminate the diarrhea some people get during the loading phase.
>Creatine hype threat
more like creatine hair threat lmao