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>brings massive gains
i thought the point of doing the dumbbell ones is the bigger range of motion and you pull it back almost ot your tailbone
or is guy in pic just retarded
The guy in the pic has bad form, knee on the bench is wrong
i have never felt these were more effective than cable rows
This guy is doing them super fucking wrong, and when you do them wrong you don't feel it in your lats and it feels like 100% biceps and delts
>twisting slightly when his torso should be dead straight and rigid
>pulling hand up to nipple rather than back to hip
>not double clutching like he should
Again, these are not gonna feel like anything if you do them wrong, and they're easy to do wrong.
>require lots of lower back and posterior chain strength, without which it can detract from focus on lats/scaps
>elbows should be tucked
>should be pulling bar to belly button, not chest
>you need to master scapular depression/retraction, without which there is almost no engagement of lats. This is a common weak point in the movement and if your scaps fall out of retraction the row basically becomes and arm exercise. Learn it through scap pullups
>commonly turns into an ego lift where anons load up the bar with 2pl8 or 3pl8 and lurch it around, bobbing their torso up and down in jerking motions banging into the barbell. You need to swallow your pride and use relatively light weight to move it slowly and in a focused, controlled way where you can maintain your scapular retraction and really mentally focus on engaging your lats
it depends what you want from em. you can choose to do em like you explained, but you can also do em with the elbows out at about 45 degrees or even 60 degrees.. it depends what your goal is
correct, you can definitely get more upper back/rear delt action if you flare some, but I wouldn't go out too far
and i completely disagree with the using relatively light weights part. it really benefits from using a lot of weight, and you can achieve nearly all of your points through a controlled use of the body, at the ascension part. you can easily do the scapular retraction and protraction with heavy weights.
I just mean using light enough weight that you can hold scapular retraction and do controlled, deliberate movements by engaging the lats while minimizing recruitment of elbow flexors. Lots of people CAN do very heavy weight on BB rows if their scaps fall out of retraction and they're pulling it up primarily with their arms (or cheating it in the many ways you can cheat it), but it doesn't mean they should... it takes a bit of criticality to determine at what weight your form is falling apart and back is being minimally engaged
Snaps lower back
Chest supported rows are the golden standard for upper back
I do them from the floor. Not as fun as chin-ups, but they definitely work.
my hamstrings are literally too tight to do these i can bend over like 15 degrees lol
fat fucker. you'll make it though just keep trying.
i weigh 140 at 5'10 i just have super tight hamstrings
Then stretch retard
>mogs every other back exercise
>not doing strict rows + weighted pullups
Same logic as to why you'd do OHP + Bench. Horizontal and vertical lifts to cover all your bases.
>can't do even half of one
Rows and pull ups goes hand in hand. they hit different spots and fullfill eachother
If you can’t do a pull up you’re probably gonna die if you ever get into a situation where you need to run for your life
more than just pullups, they have to be somewhat explosive.
This is improper form
>mogs barbell rows in every way
out of my way gay
yeah this one is way better
Is there any difference between this and the cable/machine version?
The leverage changes on the machine in pic related whereas it remains constant on a chest supported cable row. Whether that's a good or a bad thing is up to you.
fucking based. these blow up your back like no other.
looks like there are two handles. is it preferable to focus one side at a time, or both at once? my gym has one, never used it
do both at once, otherwise you'll have muscle imbalances. Suggest you start with a moderate weight and slowly work your weight up to heavier weights.
I like the idea of these, but the overwhelming majority of these weighted row machines I've encountered over the years in gyms use cables or belts with wheels and pullies to move weight stacks, and there's something about them that makes the movement really difficult and unpleasant. It's like those machines--- especially the belt ones but occasionally the cable/pulley ones--- have a stickiness or friction, and it makes it difficult to effortlessly pull the weight. It's like there's unintentional resistance in the belt/pulley system that makes even manageable weight seem harder to move correctly. I'm not sure how else to describe it, it's pretty immediate tactile sensation that's hard to put to words.
It really is a trash exercise.
bro yo momma trash
This is one of the hardest for me to do and I feel nothing the next day. I can't even do the motion very well without weight.
i agree actually always just feels like shit and doesn't give much compared to loads of other excersizes
start treating it like a deadlift assistance exercise instead of a back hypertrophy exercise. try to make it up to 50% of your max deadlift for 5 reps and then discover that your max deadlift is now higher. use pullups and cable rows for back hypertrophy
Finally someone gets it.
It’s a test of isometric back and core stability in a naturally weak position.
There’s a reason olympic lifters do this.
stop doing deadlifts and do good form rows with a low to moderate weight for 10-12 reps and it will hit your whole fucking back hard unless you are a griplet
whats the stance
how much do you lower yourself
where do you pull
>anything to do with rows
now look at rows
Sorry to break it to you bro, but if you think those are skullcrushers then you have literally not done a skullcrusher with good form ever before
>mogs every other back exercise
>brings massive gains
I do these 3 for back. is that good?
nr 1 is retarded for the back. nr 3 will give you muscle imbalances, unless you also do another row variation
pull ups are god tier
Why would dumbbell rows give muscle imbalance?
And pullovers hit the lats nicely
the lats can pull your whole bodyweight and then some, you need a really heavy DB to make a big difference. and pullovers have an incredible short ROM for where its heavy. The strength curve on that lift is kinda weird.
I did DB rows as my only row variation, and discovered how bad of a carryover it has to other lifts, and certain muscles of the back, barely got hit at all. cause of the support you get from your other hand. i ended up with a wide, but very flat upper back. that completely changed when i went over to BB rows.
i tried to these as everyone and their cat insists its a chest exercise but all i feel is lats.
i still dont feel the need to do them as straight arm lat pulldowns seem to target lats really well
my triceps are always sore the day after I do these what gives
my biggest upper back gains and deadlift gains came from BB rows. youre absolute trash. use mroe weight, and using some bodylanguage on the ascend is helpfull, then lower it slowly down.
If youre slightly built, and youre doing BB rows with less than 80(176lbs)-90kg(198lbs), then youre doing it wrong
do t bar instead
Lower the weight, do Pendlay style, slow eccentric, allow for weighted stretch. Most people are too retarded to BB row properly. Although I'll admit, if I could only do one row, it would be the T-bar row.
> slow eccentric, allow for weighted stretch
you can do this with excessive weight. i dont understand why people recommend low weights on Rows, when you gain so much by going heavy.
Excessive fatigue of the lumbar, and jerking around. Using the neck, injury of the tendons in the elbow. Unless you've got form down really well, going heavy isn't doing them any favors.
>Excessive fatigue of the lumbar, and jerking around. Using the neck, injury of the tendons in the elbow
excessive fatigue isnt an issue for me. it did the opposite, improved my deadlift cause i got more time under tension, for my lumbar spine. im not jerking around. its a controlled used of the body. it wont cause more neck injuries or injuries in general. injuries are cause by inexperience of a movement, or too much generall stress(this part is clearly shown in physiotherapy reseach)
I use this type of rows to fix muscle knots and neck pain. and as long as i keep doing em i avoid general neck issues
what it does to is train your grip, upper back, lower back and neck better. your deadlift will improve and your back will grow
Cables and machines (and pull-ups/chinups) are all you need for back. Free weights are awful
you can build a good back that way, but it doesnt make free weights awefull
All of you are gays. If you think bent over rows do nothing then you've never really done them.
If my only goal is hypertrophy should I do barbell rows?
Try it. and see what it brings
destroys your back
Do seal rows with DBs on a flat bench or an inclined bench. If you support your torso, your lower back and posterior chain will be out of the equation
I know that. What if I want to do BB rows though?
Have a man spot you. Find the biggest guy in the gym and when you're doing your bent BB row, have him pressed right up against your butt with his arms wrapped around your waist (to support your lower back). For good form, make sure your lower back is arched as much as possible to accentuate the roundness and fullness of your glutes, and as you row, "back it up" into him and press your butt into his groin and thighs for extra support, while he does the ol' reach-around and holds your delicate, poorly-developed torso to protect your low back
How do I retract my scapula? Basically just pull them back and down?
look up scapular pullups. Basically you hang from a pullup bar and do the opposite of shrugging. At the bottom of the position, your shoulders are shrugged up, and at the "top" of the position, shoulders are pulled down as far as they can go. Basically you're trying to elevate your body as much as possible without bending your elbows at all.
The scap pullup will train/teach you how to pull them "down", and to understand how they can be pulled back, basically do the same thing on a cable row machine sitting upright. Or in an inverted row position using a barbell.
Between these two exercises, they will give you mentally a sense of what the it feels like to have your scaps "back" and "down", and give you the strength to hold them in that position. When you do heavy back work, it's actually harder than you think to keep the scaps back and down while under heavy weight, so training it is an essential foundation for back building
fuck this place, I stopped doing dead lifts because apparently everybody gets injured and dies from doing it, now I have to stop doing rows because either it does nothing OR everybody destroy their backs and dies?
Wtf should I do yoga instead? Will that kill me too?
This place is fine but, like any board, it's filled with borderline and actual retards, all of whom are usually either obese or dyel, who post meme shit like "DID YU KNO ONLY KCALS FROM CARB MAEK U GAINE FAT!???" or ">IMPLYNG LIFTING WEIGHTS DOES ANYTHING (IT DOSENT)"
It's the same as any board, where IST has an advantage is it's easier not to take it personally, and you don't have any kind of public image to worry about so you can call these diabetic retards out in whatever language you prefer.
Also, putting Sage in the options section will make it so you don't bump these aesthetically Nurglesque invalids.
t. I've been looking for the opportunity to use picrel
>Has type 2 diabetes
gave me the entirety of my back literally
i dont do deadlifts because im too lazy to the whole setup thing and i honestly doubt they'll give me results similar to barbell rows
My favorite lift, once the weight goes up I swap to a yates row though
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