>Look at me I pulled up my thesaurus app to make a tiktok tier anti-natalism meme
You can’t escape the drive to have children and procreate, but if you need to have that explained to you, you probably shouldn’t have kids
The whole point of monks is to fight against your nature to show your dedication. If you don't want a family you were never sacrificing anything and thus it means nothing. Buddha only got enlightened because he was a prince who knew what he gave up.
>The whole point of monks is to fight against your nature to show your dedication.
That doesn't disprove my point, since you said >You can’t escape the drive to have children and procreate >You can't escape the drive
If you are able to fight against your nature and win, then you can escape the drive
Don't really care about the natalism/anti-natalism debate, just wanted to point this out due to my autistic belief that the mind has dominance over all basal drives
Actually this might be a semantic issue: when people say that you cannot defeat your desires, they mean that you will eventually give in to the desire and perform the action, but you might be trying to say that while you can indefinitely resist the action, you cannot remove the desire. In the latter case you *might* be right, but the former case is entirely incorrect.
>You can’t escape the drive to have children and procreate
Men do not have such a drive. You're thinking of women. Men have the desire for sex and the touch of a woman.
The desire to have children is a feminine one.
Why do men who say they want children never really look after the kids, and leave practically all the responsibility to the mother. In terms of time and effort invested in the kids directly, the mother does 95%.
White men still spend the majority of their time at work, send their kids to school/daycare, etc., and leave the wife to spend the majority of time with the child.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Daycare aside, all of that is doing what is best for the child.
Women show love through submission to the will of their husbands, and men do so by sacrifice for the sake of their family.
Those men come home after work to spend time with their kids. They use their free time when not toiling to provide to teach their kids the things mothers can't.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not denying that nor making any judgment on it. I'm only talking about the man's motivations.
Your desire for kids is the cause of your craving for women. You want to spread your genes without taking care of them which is the natural survival strategy for males.
It really isn't. When I have sex with a woman, I'm not getting off to the idea of her conceiving, later birthing a child and then raising that child. I find women attractive and so I want to frick them. This is also why it's possible to enjoy masturbation. It's just the way biology happily works that is the reason that something so pleasurable is the mechanism by which children are born.
No woman that wants to start a family would do so with a man that doesn't have the drive to have kids. It would be stupid. Evolutionary males that have the drive to make kids are preferable.
Yes they would, and they do. Plenty of happy and fruitful families start by accident.
GASP, I'v been, how you say, BTFO by some random troony on IST. I will now accept your death cult ways o wise one.
Is this what you imagine will happen when you say stupid shit like that?
King. I just want financial security so I can focus on Darwinian success. My own dreams, ah frick em, never happened, but I have good genes and will set my heirs on the path.
I agree. I'm indifferent to mildy annoyed by children. If I do ever have kids I will not act like a nanny. No diapers, no kisses, I don't want to be involved whatsoever in their bowel movements or petty problems, none of that. I'll hire a wet-nurse to help my wife but I might actually kill myself if I had to do what is commonly expected of the modern husband.
Being a modern father is fricking gay. Basically a second mom. No wonder women end up losing attraction for their fiaper changing husbands and divorce them for the BBC
There's something wrong if you don't love your baby. Only the people who still remain some of the most undeveloped in the world, where the mom and kid die of diarrhea, have strong cultural values where the father doesn't even hold his child until it's 3-5 or so.
Extreme anti-infant and anti-wife values are socially degenerative and you end up with undeveloped and violent cultures.
>No kisses
Unless you have a severe personality disorder, your brain chemistry will make you eant to hug and kiss your biological children.
If you do have a pd, please don't procreate. I hate homies with pds.
My dad and grandpa never kissed me but love me to death. What is it with you homosexuals and equating every tiny variation in some detail to mental illness? Fricking morons.
I'm the same anon, you know you just made me realize I was actually barely ever kissed or hugged growing up. Certainly never from my dad, and from my mom I think that stopped when I was about 7 or so. Haven't really hugged her much since, maybe 5 or so times.
Weird but we're actually a good family and I think we mostly bond through talking, humor, intellectually, memories etc. but the whole family is pretty autistic.
xD this fricking argument.
I'm 37 and still disgusted by the idea of having children. Am i too young or an exception, you fricking moron?
Actual homosexuals
I agree. I'm indifferent to mildy annoyed by children. If I do ever have kids I will not act like a nanny. No diapers, no kisses, I don't want to be involved whatsoever in their bowel movements or petty problems, none of that. I'll hire a wet-nurse to help my wife but I might actually kill myself if I had to do what is commonly expected of the modern husband.
No woman that wants to start a family would do so with a man that doesn't have the drive to have kids. It would be stupid. Evolutionary males that have the drive to make kids are preferable.
Unfortunately women do that all the time, most people male or female don't constantly make the most optimal decision for their desires/values when pairing up
>Women always pick nice normal men to have children with, and dysgenic traits have never been passed down
Oh thank god, I woke up in the good universe.
Having a family lowers test, so being gay enough to want babies like a woman actually means you have low test. Further reinforced by your use of a tiktok meme popularised by women, kek.
Lol if you're so low t that the prospect of your test level dropping scares you, then your honestly should probably not reproduce. Give me your girl's number so she can hit me up with she wants a kid.
>I only had sex drive until age 30. >Now I have both sex drive and a drive to have proginy
This doesn't make sense. Did you mean to write >I had only sex drive until age 30
I guess it can. The more natural interpretation of the first one would be that you had sex drive in the years preceding 30 but not after, whereas the second one makes it abundantly clear that you had only sex drive up until 30 and then gained something else afterwards.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Ok but what do you think it means? Human speech is not a formal language so there is no correct or exact way to communicate. You have to learn to interpret the intention behind the words
11 months ago
Anonymous
Right, I understand what it means now, but when reading it, I was quite confused.
If you want to get your point across to someone, you have to learn to make the intention behind the words as clear as possible; hence why the suggestion I gave is a useful one.
I'm not sure that can properly be called a fetish, since it's the default thing that would happen with repeated sex unless you artificially intervene to block pregnancy as an outcome.
The fact it's possible for us to have a ton of sex regularly for well over a decade and never even think about kids is not the normal state of mind.
Speak for yourself anon. I want to impregnate hundreds of women. You may be right though, I do want the women to do 99% of the raising. It is out of practicality though because I wouldn't be able to raise hundreds of children. >tfw high IQ even in hypothetical scenarios
This shit’s so gay. Anti-natal gays have this suicidal ideation that life and consciousness is some sort of malevolent curse upon them, instead of a rare gift that they should be making use of. They act like having a kid, basically the main thing you have to do as a species, is some morally objectionable thing because the kid will suffer at some point in its life (forget the moments of joy, which these gays don’t feel)
Suffering has a higher value then non-existence. Otherwise why don't we just kill all poor orphans. They will just suffer anyway. Suffering is not to be avoided. You are supposed to overcome it. Or have a nice day. Your choice.
https://i.imgur.com/adTY93b.jpg
I have an incredible drive to have lots of kids and raise them. I'm a man.
if you have shitty genes you shoulden't make kids because that's literally gambling with lives of your children
I'm only making kids if wife is 9/10 or 10/10 to compensate or if gene modification becomes safe, proven and affordable
This shit’s so gay. Anti-natal gays have this suicidal ideation that life and consciousness is some sort of malevolent curse upon them, instead of a rare gift that they should be making use of. They act like having a kid, basically the main thing you have to do as a species, is some morally objectionable thing because the kid will suffer at some point in its life (forget the moments of joy, which these gays don’t feel)
I want a family, I just hate children. They're whiny little gays, drain your energy and resources.
t. former child
>You can’t escape the drive to have children and procreate
Men do not have such a drive. You're thinking of women. Men have the desire for sex and the touch of a woman.
The desire to have children is a feminine one.
YOU WILL NEVER TRUELY UNDERSTAND UNTIL YOU HAVE KIDS,
YOU WILL NEVER BE THANKFUL TO YOUR PARENTS FOR GIVING YOU,
SIBLINGS (IF YOU HAVE THEM),
IT IS WHY WE ARE HERE,
FRIENDS WILL COME AND GO
This shit’s so gay. Anti-natal gays have this suicidal ideation that life and consciousness is some sort of malevolent curse upon them, instead of a rare gift that they should be making use of. They act like having a kid, basically the main thing you have to do as a species, is some morally objectionable thing because the kid will suffer at some point in its life (forget the moments of joy, which these gays don’t feel)
Craziest part is that they think everyone on this planet is as “miserable” as them. I put “misery” in quotations because their misery doesn’t appear to be actual misery. Their “misery” is the fact that they are too lazy. They can’t withstand an ounce of pain so they have no gain. I’m not even talking about exercise, I’m talking about the “pain” of leaving their own house.
They’re absolutely debilitated children trapped in an adult body. I’d feel pity, but it’s hard to feel bad for them when they’re inadvertently advocating for genocide.
Suffering has a higher value then non-existence. Otherwise why don't we just kill all poor orphans. They will just suffer anyway. Suffering is not to be avoided. You are supposed to overcome it. Or have a nice day. Your choice.
Everything feels like a false sense of purpose due to our mortality. I also wanted kids and now I'm not so sure after bad things happened to me (disease).
But death itself is suffering too. The thought of it. The possibility of not having any consciousness. It's a paradox. You care about not having a consciousness now although you might not care when it happens (death). It's like the people who want to do something to make their parents feel well by knowing something before they die. After their death they might not remember if there is no afterlife with consciousness and memory. Death itself is a suffering on the living. Why do you think there are religions all over the world with different ideas about some way of life after death?
>You care about not having a consciousness now although you might not care when it happens (death).
With that I meant you fear about losing consciousness after death, despite after death without consciousness you can't KNOW you lost consciousness, so your fear all the years before was pointless harm through anticipation. This assumes that we don't have a consciousness after death. If we'd had consciousness after death it would be WAY less harmful on the human psych. And this is why there are religions, MASSIVE, GLOBAL cope.
Even if what I do will be considered pointless by some external pov that sees me struggle and then die and stop existing (since as you say if there's no afterlife i will not even be conscious about my non existence so i will never have that pov) that doesn't make it pointless from MY pov.
I mean the pov i have now, while living every day, the pov of this moment.
From my pov nothing I do is pointless, it's not like if after I do something no after I die that thing i did vanishes, or it's like I never did it, because i did it and I was conscious of doing it in that moment. That moment happened. So why should I care about what I will (not) someday feel after my death, since as you say I won't have a conscience anymore.
Lemme explain better:
If in this moment I start doing something (lifting, hobbies, reading...) I start a journey and I enjoy the journey. In my time on earth I will develop skills, experience things and use my skills and experience to do stuff, to make may family happy (playing piano at family reunions, gifting things I made to people etc...) all this stuff from my pov is not useless. It's real stuff that I'm experiencing, so even if it can be considered pointless if you see it in the broader prospective of the non existent afterlife that doesn't make those experience fade away. I am experiencing them right now, they are real and while I'm alive they aren't pointless because they make my happiness.
So why should I waste the time I have with a consciousness agonising about the time I will not have one (hence i will not suffer, so it's not a bad prospective) and not actually feel good and do stuff that makes me happy?
In my opinion the religious prospective of hell is something much more traumatising than the prospective of just ceasing to exist.
Everything feels like a false sense of purpose due to our mortality. I also wanted kids and now I'm not so sure after bad things happened to me (disease).
But death itself is suffering too. The thought of it. The possibility of not having any consciousness. It's a paradox. You care about not having a consciousness now although you might not care when it happens (death). It's like the people who want to do something to make their parents feel well by knowing something before they die. After their death they might not remember if there is no afterlife with consciousness and memory. Death itself is a suffering on the living. Why do you think there are religions all over the world with different ideas about some way of life after death?
talked about people learning things to make parents happy that than die and they "forget" everything they have learned
and I assumed that you meant that living and doing stuff is pointless in the prospective of the after life.
No, some people do stuff in the last days of their parents to make them happy. To let them leave with the knowing that X has been accomplished (grandkid for example). But what does it matter, if the granddad/mother after death can't remember having a grandkid because of missing consciousness.
11 months ago
Anonymous
the point is they will have been happy in that moment (not sure about the verbs since nnes). Is the happiness of those you care about now not a good reason to fill ypur life with stuff to do?
>So why should I care about what I will (not) someday feel after my death, since as you say I won't have a conscience anymore
Because the thought now can already be painful. That's why I say it's paradox. It agonizes you, although in the exact moment of it, it can't really pain you anymore. You don't even know it happened. You can't even remember your death essentially (if no afterlife).
Yes, you are experiencing everything, but nothing remains for you, in your memory. Only in the memory of others, if there are any.
But the experiences fade away if you have no consciousness anymore in death?
>In my opinion the religious prospective of hell is something much more traumatising than the prospective of just ceasing to exist.
Not so sure about that.
>the thought can be already painful
debatable because stoicism or epicureans.
I agree that when you think about it, if you are an atheist, it can ruin your mood, but why obsess over this? you are alive now, live.
You will (not) think about death when you will die.
To me the most agonizing thing about death is not thinking about one's own but when you are faced with other's death (you have to experience the absence of existence of someone that was in your life).
>nothing remains for you in your memory
I hope that I will remember most of my life until the day I die so I will try to have pleasant memories and experiences. Then I die and won't exist anymore so why should I care about what I (won't) feel when i won't exist anymore?
I can't feel sad that I don't remember things if I don't exist.
For now that I exist I will feel happy about the memories I made so I have to make memories. Happy ones for what I can control.
Why should I avoid living and making experiences (for example by making a family) just because from a pov i will never have it seems pointless?
Why do you consider you own happiness in this right moment pointless?
I exist in this moment so I will do what makes me happy (I'm not talking about hedonism here tho, that makes you miserable, I'm talking long term happiness, every day life happiness, like the exaples in my previous post).
If you strive to live an happy life you will have experienced an happy life, simple as.
Your experiences are your whole prospective, you will never experience death in the sense of conciously expirience it so why live with that pov. your life/experiences THAT is what "remains" for you until u die, in this sense they don't fade away because they are and will be your whole and only reality while u are alive.
>not sure about that
perpetual suffering and torture for eternity vs not existing, i choose not existing.
Didn't even realize this was supposed to be an anti-natalist meme. I unironically took this trade offer because I figured a false sense of purpose is better than none at all.
>sense of purpose >false
And will the resident defeatist say what kind of purpose is true?
Children are gifts from God.
The only reason you are antinatalist is because you unironically believe that sex is for pleasure alone.
If you understood the core purpose of sex is for procreation, you'd change your mind real fast about antinatalism.
Then again, I don't think I've ever met an antinatalist that wasn't a staunch atheist or some larping satanist that is afraid to identify outright as an atheist.
https://i.imgur.com/K65g7nc.jpg
My wife’s rebuttal
Tuck off with your nihilistic bullshit. I'll have at least 3 kids and there is nothing you can do to stop me or my future wife
Gives you an even stronger purpose. There's NO better feeling in the world tha. Seeing your baby smile at you.
Only childless morans would disagree.
> needing another human being to give you a sense of purpose
ngmi lmao
Even if your reason for being are the sonichu drawings you create alone in your basement and no one else wants to see, you're still creating something in the confines of what someone else already created. Ergo you are reliant on others to have given you your purpose.
Speaking as someone with two kids and a third on the way, pre-kids I could have 60-70 non-working hours of waking time in my life to largely spend as I wished. The children have mercilessly gobbled most of that up and now I get about 20 if I'm lucky, most of which gets taken up by quotidian stuff and life admin. Staying in shape with kids is entirely possible, but you have to be efficient about it and manage your time well.
>has a house >has a good job >has a wife and kids
Okay? What's there to complain about? You've fulfilled the duty you were brought into this world to fulfil. Quit b***hing, man up, and spend some time with little Timmy so he doesn't end up turning into a hikikomori gamer, a troon, or a drug addict.
I have two now and want to be a good example for them. I grew up fat and do not want that lifestyle for them. Yes it can hurt your gains, you just have yo be efficient with your methods and time given. >My sleep is dogshit due to my work schedule
I'm not a moral nihilist at all (nor do I think morality is subjective). I just don't have any desire for kids; only the craving for women and the desire to protect them.
Your desire for kids is the cause of your craving for women. You want to spread your genes without taking care of them which is the natural survival strategy for males.
Children are gifts from God.
The only reason you are antinatalist is because you unironically believe that sex is for pleasure alone.
If you understood the core purpose of sex is for procreation, you'd change your mind real fast about antinatalism.
Then again, I don't think I've ever met an antinatalist that wasn't a staunch atheist or some larping satanist that is afraid to identify outright as an atheist.
You would call getting cancer a gift from god too so that doesn't mean much. You don't hold your God to any standards so your qualifiers for what is good are meaningless.
>God making an integral part of his master plan involve me having a lonely, unfulfilled existence for 80 years before unceremoniously shuffling off the mortal coil with no legacy or achievements of note
I have a very cute baby so old ladies constantly talk to my family in public. I got one that walked up, grabbed his lil foot at 4 m.o. and said "babies are a gift from god" and I had to try very hard to not joke back "then we had all that SEX for nothing!?"
That rebuttal is moronic anon, God is the creator of the human body and made it so sex would make babies, but it clearly doesn't -always- make babies even for those who try because something is wrong. So in that sense, yes you're lucky you don't have those issues, aka blessed.
"Gift from god" sounds like this celestial little giftwrapped box wafted down out of a cloud with my gooey little frogfaced newborn son inside.
I guess with birth rates plummeting and fertility in the toilet, healthy pregnancy and birth can start to feel miraculous.
I dunno anon, the whole process of pregnancy and childbirth itself is strongly spiritual and changes you, and gives the mom a deep bond with her baby and an amazing direct involvement in the formation of the little one and the bringing of them into the world. Descending from a celestial box would not be an improvement.
>"Oh, you wanna raise your kids a different way?" >"I hope they fricking die lmao"
See, people like you are the reason antivaxxers exist. I'm not an antivaxxer but I don't want to be associated with you. You're scum for wishing death upon an innocent child.
Wow, so much seething from a childless troony and no body posted.
Now explain why anyone should pay any attention to anything that comes out of your wiener-loving mouth?
I'd never do it because we'd get doxxed by trannies but I wish there was shitposter scouts or something to put our kids in and all the autistic dads could mumble about "sneed" during the boxcar derby.
Every parent I meet in the park is either hypernormy or a bug person.
Well so far i only have one irl friend who is a shitlord. I've pretty much given up on meeting more people like him.
But I do dream about opening a small Whites-only, men-only gym. I could be openly racist with my boomer regulars and teach barbell lifts and racism to the teenagers.
I realized that people who are selfish enough where they just make kids without caring in the slightest about le israelites and such, just following their programming, I actually came to respect that more.
Everything is bad and we should kill ourselves is pathetic.
consciousness is the most glorious gift the world has ever seen, I wish for a world where as many people are born and live as possible, so more can expirience the gift of being alive
You need to prove that the consciousness is entirely and exclusively tied to brain activity.
Note that this is significantly more involved than probing a brain and seeing parts light up when a person thinks a certain way etc. as it requires a strong understanding of what precisely causes consciousness to arise.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Did you have consciousness before you were born?
11 months ago
Anonymous
The consciousness generating at the same time as the body doesn't mean they can't be separated. There's nothing contradictory about religious doctrines for example that say the soul and body can be separated, but that there is no preexistence of souls and both soul and body are created in the same moment and grow together.
11 months ago
Anonymous
So the soul is consciousness as you imply. The soul is in the brain then?
>The consciousness generating at the same time as the body doesn't mean they can't be separated.
What are the chances they live and die together in contrast to one survives, especially if you somewhat imply the soul lies in the brain. Consciousness probably lies in the brain.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I did not imply the soul is consciousness.
No, why would the soul be in the brain?
There is no argument to be made from probability here.
11 months ago
Anonymous
back to the starting point then
you have to prove that conciousness lies in the brain and that the death of one causes the death of the other.
They could very much be only communicating (and so influencing each other) w/o being physically tied to each other for all we know.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Not as far as I know, but as far as I can tell, I didn't have consciousness until I was almost 3 years old, so I don't see what relevance your question has nor what your point is.
11 months ago
Anonymous
You have no memories, but consciousness yes. A toddler can understand he is the person in the mirror.
11 months ago
Anonymous
How do you know he has a conscious?
Does a fetus have a conscious?
Do ants have a conscious?
11 months ago
Anonymous
I have kids, they have consciousness before they're born, it just isn't the same.
There is no way to prove a casual relationship between consciousness and the brain. There is no reason the physical activity of the brain should produce the non physical experience of consciousness. You can only show that they do have a relationship, but for all we know it is similar to the relationship between a radio station and your car's radio.
Haven't had children yet (trying with wife) I assume the first couple years (at least the first year) kills your gains because you'll have absolutely no sleep or inadequate sleep. You're entire schedule is dependent on a little tyrant that shits themselves. After the first couple years and especially once their five they start going to school so if you plan accordingly your gains should return. If you aren't a "get up at 4am to lift" kind of guy then you will need to become one or your gains are gone for the foreseeable future.
Honestly the sleep is a mix of a dice roll and how you guys rear the baby. A lot of modern advice is going to rob you of sleep unnecessarily, and sometimes the kid actually just sleeps decently. People sow FUD about babies way too much.
>dont nurse the baby to sleep
This is dumb, sometime between 1-2 the kiddo will naturally begin passing out without nursing. Between 0-1.5 the kiddo needs a ton of milk and it just makes sense they nurse to sleep. There are compounds in breastmilk that specifically make baby (and mom) sleepy, take advantage >don't cosleep
If you're not fat, drunk, or a smoker, it's fine. When they are brand new they are pretty fragile, but they also sleep more than youd expect since they're so exhausted, and until 4-5 months swaddling them works very well to keep them asleep. You'll be able to see when your little potato has enough life in them to safely sleep by mom, and trust me, a healthy new mom feels the baby's presence in bed and wakes when they wake naturally. Just keep their face away from blankets. A floor mattress (actual shikifuton is best) is ideal for this, and actually good for your back too, but you don't -need- it. If you're really worried a crib right next to the bed will work fine, and make sure there's a comfy chair to nurse baby in the middle of the night. It's tiring but it's manageable.
In the last months of pregnancy your wife will likely start waking up through the night naturally, in preparation.
As the dad when the baby is brand new, there's not too much you have to do. Wife cares for baby - you primarily need to care for the wife. Hold/watch the kiddo so she can do other stuff for chunks of time (shower, get food, etc). Bring her stuff, hang out with her to mitigate the boredom and stir craziness.
> Does starting a family kill your gains?
No, not inherently. > Does starting a family with a woman who doesn't fulfill all of the traditional gender roles and thusly rearing of the child is 90% her problem kill your gains?
Yes.
It's not a false purpose tho. You are know completely responsible for the growth and development of a human being that you are unleashing into the world in 18 years. It's an unbelievably large responsibility
My family and circle is very religious so I know a lot of young families and homesteaders and the like. And I have come to the conclusion that there is harm in how these groups normally think and talk about marriage. It's a fertility cult. It's super duper encouraged to just go ahead and marry at 19 or 20 with very little regard for life plans, finances, etc. They normally have pretty short engagements but it's all encouraged because they THINK that they are doing what good traditional people used to do.
But they are not. We are much less mature at 20 than people 100 years ago, we have weaker communities, less competence to live in the world and make decisions.
And further more, one key aspect of traditional values is curiously absent from all these trads I know. And that's the importance of having both families approval of a marriage. That kept things much more sensible. But now we have immature kids just getting married with no money and pumping out kids. The guy who married my sister was and is a fricking idiot, they were both 20 at the time. My father didn't like the idea of them marrying, but the modern notion of it being a complete personal choice was too strong so he said nothing. And go figure their family is a mess, the kids are not being given a good life, homeschooled but socially isolated. The dads still a goofball.
1/2
I got really off topic, but this is something I know about and annoys me. I'm 100% imbedded in these trad circles, so when I see the common rhetoric online I always want to point out problems with it. In this case it's the whole idea that every guy should just marry a trad wife and have a beautiful big family, that's the goal of life. Well that's a misleading thing to say and it creates these weird dysfunctional families where the parents read heaps and heaps of literature on rearing kids. There's something wrong in that, having a family should be more implicit and not praised so much. Kids should be treated more like individuals and less like these projects to create the perfect christian culture.
I don't want kids, I do want a woman though so I could imagine she'd just convince me to have them which seems like the natural order.
Ok I'm done, I know this is all cringe sorry.
2/2
My family and circle is very religious so I know a lot of young families and homesteaders and the like. And I have come to the conclusion that there is harm in how these groups normally think and talk about marriage. It's a fertility cult. It's super duper encouraged to just go ahead and marry at 19 or 20 with very little regard for life plans, finances, etc. They normally have pretty short engagements but it's all encouraged because they THINK that they are doing what good traditional people used to do.
But they are not. We are much less mature at 20 than people 100 years ago, we have weaker communities, less competence to live in the world and make decisions.
And further more, one key aspect of traditional values is curiously absent from all these trads I know. And that's the importance of having both families approval of a marriage. That kept things much more sensible. But now we have immature kids just getting married with no money and pumping out kids. The guy who married my sister was and is a fricking idiot, they were both 20 at the time. My father didn't like the idea of them marrying, but the modern notion of it being a complete personal choice was too strong so he said nothing. And go figure their family is a mess, the kids are not being given a good life, homeschooled but socially isolated. The dads still a goofball.
1/2
You seem like a reasonable and pretty cool guy. I liked how you identified the source of your dislike for tradculture in your life.
I have a similar dislike for PC culture because I was raised PC. I realize intellectually there are some good things about it, but whenever I see it it makes angry and fear abandonment.
First son is seven weeks old right now and my lifts have never progressed at this rate before. I have read that the second child causes big prolactin spike, but the first causes big test spike. Will report findings in a few years I guess, but so far no, it does not kill your gains
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Couvade_syndrome
yes it will, OP. Best case scenario for gainz: do not spend an excessive amount of time with your woman.
>steals all of your free time, prevents you from sleeping, increases your stress level 100fold, turns your wife insane
sounds like it to me, at least for a few years
but you still have to do it or else chudley the 470lb hapa will lecture you about your bloodline and biological mission again
I do have a kid, he's 5months now. For now I can still exercice (gym is close, and I do have a homegym, I train at my homegym mostly.
Without the homegym, yes, It'd probably kill my gains, because I'd feel selfish to leave all the responsability to my wife, even tho I feel a bit selfish to train for 1hour and half. But she doesn't mind at all. The thing is, I want a 2nd kid, and then it may kill my gains. Will see.
temporarily, yes. mainly due to a lack of sleep. highly suggest taking the home gym pill if you can. things get better when they're past the toddler age.
It depends. I have two children. I stopped going to the gym because I was working 2 jobs and wanted all of my free time dedicated to being with my wife and children. I only recently started up again after 4 years. My lifts definitely suffered and I gained some fat, but my arms and shoulders got bigger and stronger from carrying my kids everywhere.
I imagine that if you make enough money that you don't have to pick up a second job to cover family expenses, you would be able to keep going to the gym and only see gains from having kids.
>Look at me I pulled up my thesaurus app to make a tiktok tier anti-natalism meme
You can’t escape the drive to have children and procreate, but if you need to have that explained to you, you probably shouldn’t have kids
>he thinks a thesaurus was needed for that meme
The absolute state of amerimutt education
I think he means to imply taht he thinks the individual who made the meme is so low intelligence that they would need a thesaurus to produce it.
*that
>You can’t escape the drive to have children and procreate
Monks exist
The whole point of monks is to fight against your nature to show your dedication. If you don't want a family you were never sacrificing anything and thus it means nothing. Buddha only got enlightened because he was a prince who knew what he gave up.
>The whole point of monks is to fight against your nature to show your dedication.
That doesn't disprove my point, since you said
>You can’t escape the drive to have children and procreate
>You can't escape the drive
If you are able to fight against your nature and win, then you can escape the drive
Don't really care about the natalism/anti-natalism debate, just wanted to point this out due to my autistic belief that the mind has dominance over all basal drives
Actually this might be a semantic issue: when people say that you cannot defeat your desires, they mean that you will eventually give in to the desire and perform the action, but you might be trying to say that while you can indefinitely resist the action, you cannot remove the desire. In the latter case you *might* be right, but the former case is entirely incorrect.
>You can’t escape the drive to have children and procreate
Men do not have such a drive. You're thinking of women. Men have the desire for sex and the touch of a woman.
The desire to have children is a feminine one.
tell me you are in your 20s without telling me
Why do men who say they want children never really look after the kids, and leave practically all the responsibility to the mother. In terms of time and effort invested in the kids directly, the mother does 95%.
sorry that you had a shitty father
Sorry that you live in perpetual denial of reality
The OP clearly showed a white baby
White men still spend the majority of their time at work, send their kids to school/daycare, etc., and leave the wife to spend the majority of time with the child.
Daycare aside, all of that is doing what is best for the child.
Women show love through submission to the will of their husbands, and men do so by sacrifice for the sake of their family.
Those men come home after work to spend time with their kids. They use their free time when not toiling to provide to teach their kids the things mothers can't.
I'm not denying that nor making any judgment on it. I'm only talking about the man's motivations.
It really isn't. When I have sex with a woman, I'm not getting off to the idea of her conceiving, later birthing a child and then raising that child. I find women attractive and so I want to frick them. This is also why it's possible to enjoy masturbation. It's just the way biology happily works that is the reason that something so pleasurable is the mechanism by which children are born.
Yes they would, and they do. Plenty of happy and fruitful families start by accident.
Lol
Based wife
xD this fricking argument.
I'm 37 and still disgusted by the idea of having children. Am i too young or an exception, you fricking moron?
No, you just fell for the materialism psyop.
t. 37 year old father
>xD
You might be 37 physically, but mentally you haven’t progressed past 18, and that’s a generous estimate.
I for one admire his youthful spunk.
>
>You are a child because you use smileys on a taiwanese chipmanufacturing board
just a moron
Yes
You probably drink tap water
youre a literal manchild m8 lmao get the frick off IST you goober
>youre a literal manchild m8
IST seems like the perfect place for him, just like it is for you.
I have an incredible drive to have lots of kids and raise them. I'm a man.
>I'm a man.
With the mentality of a woman.
GASP, I'v been, how you say, BTFO by some random troony on IST. I will now accept your death cult ways o wise one.
Is this what you imagine will happen when you say stupid shit like that?
>Is this what you imagine will happen when you say stupid shit like that?
No, but it's weird that you do; almost as though it reaffirms what I said.
So you realize you are a joke?
In what regard?
hurrr durrr?
You are yeast.
King. I just want financial security so I can focus on Darwinian success. My own dreams, ah frick em, never happened, but I have good genes and will set my heirs on the path.
homosexual.
The nose tribe would be so proud of you, anon
I agree. I'm indifferent to mildy annoyed by children. If I do ever have kids I will not act like a nanny. No diapers, no kisses, I don't want to be involved whatsoever in their bowel movements or petty problems, none of that. I'll hire a wet-nurse to help my wife but I might actually kill myself if I had to do what is commonly expected of the modern husband.
Being a modern father is fricking gay. Basically a second mom. No wonder women end up losing attraction for their fiaper changing husbands and divorce them for the BBC
Says the guy with a subscription to blacked dot com
There's something wrong if you don't love your baby. Only the people who still remain some of the most undeveloped in the world, where the mom and kid die of diarrhea, have strong cultural values where the father doesn't even hold his child until it's 3-5 or so.
Extreme anti-infant and anti-wife values are socially degenerative and you end up with undeveloped and violent cultures.
Do you know the difference between real life and porn plots?
it'd be better if you did not become a father then
>No kisses
Unless you have a severe personality disorder, your brain chemistry will make you eant to hug and kiss your biological children.
If you do have a pd, please don't procreate. I hate homies with pds.
My dad and grandpa never kissed me but love me to death. What is it with you homosexuals and equating every tiny variation in some detail to mental illness? Fricking morons.
Lutheranism is a personality disorder
I'm the same anon, you know you just made me realize I was actually barely ever kissed or hugged growing up. Certainly never from my dad, and from my mom I think that stopped when I was about 7 or so. Haven't really hugged her much since, maybe 5 or so times.
Weird but we're actually a good family and I think we mostly bond through talking, humor, intellectually, memories etc. but the whole family is pretty autistic.
Actual homosexuals
No woman that wants to start a family would do so with a man that doesn't have the drive to have kids. It would be stupid. Evolutionary males that have the drive to make kids are preferable.
Unfortunately women do that all the time, most people male or female don't constantly make the most optimal decision for their desires/values when pairing up
>Women always pick nice normal men to have children with, and dysgenic traits have never been passed down
Oh thank god, I woke up in the good universe.
> Tell me you're low t without telling me you are low t.
Having a family lowers test, so being gay enough to want babies like a woman actually means you have low test. Further reinforced by your use of a tiktok meme popularised by women, kek.
Lol if you're so low t that the prospect of your test level dropping scares you, then your honestly should probably not reproduce. Give me your girl's number so she can hit me up with she wants a kid.
>starts talking about low test
>gets told he has low test
>"b-b-b-but... NO U"
Kek, tiktok zoomer having a meltdown, nothing out of the usual.
>argues about starting a family
>still jacks off into a sock in his mom's basement
>Wanting to have sex with women out of attraction to them is low T.
Okay, big man. Keep telling yourself that.
Low t and mentally handicapped.
Low iq and a coomer
I only had sex drive until age 30. Now I have both sex drive and a drive to have proginy. My wife also started to think about kids in late 20s
I even developed an insemination fetish, the thought of getting women pregnant turn me on. Ideally having many wives and as many children as possible.
Staying childfree though because shitty genes and not wanting to take the risk of having a moronic kid.
I have seen what moronic kids does to parents and I rather not take the risk
>I only had sex drive until age 30.
>Now I have both sex drive and a drive to have proginy
This doesn't make sense. Did you mean to write
>I had only sex drive until age 30
What you wrote means the same thing?
I guess it can. The more natural interpretation of the first one would be that you had sex drive in the years preceding 30 but not after, whereas the second one makes it abundantly clear that you had only sex drive up until 30 and then gained something else afterwards.
Ok but what do you think it means? Human speech is not a formal language so there is no correct or exact way to communicate. You have to learn to interpret the intention behind the words
Right, I understand what it means now, but when reading it, I was quite confused.
If you want to get your point across to someone, you have to learn to make the intention behind the words as clear as possible; hence why the suggestion I gave is a useful one.
I'm not sure that can properly be called a fetish, since it's the default thing that would happen with repeated sex unless you artificially intervene to block pregnancy as an outcome.
The fact it's possible for us to have a ton of sex regularly for well over a decade and never even think about kids is not the normal state of mind.
This. Having multiple wives and concubines to care for offspring is what men really want
It's biologically proven that children lead to sexual intercourse and vice versa.
Kys pedo.
Speak for yourself anon. I want to impregnate hundreds of women. You may be right though, I do want the women to do 99% of the raising. It is out of practicality though because I wouldn't be able to raise hundreds of children.
>tfw high IQ even in hypothetical scenarios
It's a Gnostic meme, pay no attention
>needing a thesaurus for ‘monotonous’
>phoneposter
>twitter meme
you're a homosexual and you don't lift.
>You can’t escape the drive to have children and procreate
It's called autism
I get: to wake up an work n shit homie
u get: to be feeling yoself be flexin on mofrickas
if you have shitty genes you shoulden't make kids because that's literally gambling with lives of your children
I'm only making kids if wife is 9/10 or 10/10 to compensate or if gene modification becomes safe, proven and affordable
some of the most powerful people on earth have bad genes
I don't even want to see women much less being tied to one and having children with her
My ancestors are smiling at me. Homosexual, can you say the same?
You dont even know who your ancestors were
Yes I do so.
Fpbp. Reproducing is your most basic, primal instinct.
>I pulled up my thesaurus
The absolute state of you.
I want a family, I just hate children. They're whiny little gays, drain your energy and resources.
t. former child
Fr fr bruh this homie using big words like conshisniss or whatever like he think he smart or something like he fr nerdin out rn like ong no cap
True, I used to freak out about getting my girl pregnant, but lately I’ve been more open to the idea
>unga bunga me caveman me eat crayonz
YES FOR THE FIRST FEW YEARS
TRUE
YOU WILL NEVER TRUELY UNDERSTAND UNTIL YOU HAVE KIDS,
YOU WILL NEVER BE THANKFUL TO YOUR PARENTS FOR GIVING YOU,
SIBLINGS (IF YOU HAVE THEM),
IT IS WHY WE ARE HERE,
FRIENDS WILL COME AND GO
>you should have kids but also you shouldn't have kids
This shit’s so gay. Anti-natal gays have this suicidal ideation that life and consciousness is some sort of malevolent curse upon them, instead of a rare gift that they should be making use of. They act like having a kid, basically the main thing you have to do as a species, is some morally objectionable thing because the kid will suffer at some point in its life (forget the moments of joy, which these gays don’t feel)
It's because they're fricking losers who are so weak they don't just kill themselves.
It's just a psyop aimed at White people to trick them into genociding themselves because ~~*they*~~ are just THAT lazy.
Craziest part is that they think everyone on this planet is as “miserable” as them. I put “misery” in quotations because their misery doesn’t appear to be actual misery. Their “misery” is the fact that they are too lazy. They can’t withstand an ounce of pain so they have no gain. I’m not even talking about exercise, I’m talking about the “pain” of leaving their own house.
They’re absolutely debilitated children trapped in an adult body. I’d feel pity, but it’s hard to feel bad for them when they’re inadvertently advocating for genocide.
Suffering has a higher value then non-existence. Otherwise why don't we just kill all poor orphans. They will just suffer anyway. Suffering is not to be avoided. You are supposed to overcome it. Or have a nice day. Your choice.
Everything feels like a false sense of purpose due to our mortality. I also wanted kids and now I'm not so sure after bad things happened to me (disease).
But death itself is suffering too. The thought of it. The possibility of not having any consciousness. It's a paradox. You care about not having a consciousness now although you might not care when it happens (death). It's like the people who want to do something to make their parents feel well by knowing something before they die. After their death they might not remember if there is no afterlife with consciousness and memory. Death itself is a suffering on the living. Why do you think there are religions all over the world with different ideas about some way of life after death?
>You care about not having a consciousness now although you might not care when it happens (death).
With that I meant you fear about losing consciousness after death, despite after death without consciousness you can't KNOW you lost consciousness, so your fear all the years before was pointless harm through anticipation. This assumes that we don't have a consciousness after death. If we'd had consciousness after death it would be WAY less harmful on the human psych. And this is why there are religions, MASSIVE, GLOBAL cope.
Even if what I do will be considered pointless by some external pov that sees me struggle and then die and stop existing (since as you say if there's no afterlife i will not even be conscious about my non existence so i will never have that pov) that doesn't make it pointless from MY pov.
I mean the pov i have now, while living every day, the pov of this moment.
From my pov nothing I do is pointless, it's not like if after I do something no after I die that thing i did vanishes, or it's like I never did it, because i did it and I was conscious of doing it in that moment. That moment happened. So why should I care about what I will (not) someday feel after my death, since as you say I won't have a conscience anymore.
Lemme explain better:
If in this moment I start doing something (lifting, hobbies, reading...) I start a journey and I enjoy the journey. In my time on earth I will develop skills, experience things and use my skills and experience to do stuff, to make may family happy (playing piano at family reunions, gifting things I made to people etc...) all this stuff from my pov is not useless. It's real stuff that I'm experiencing, so even if it can be considered pointless if you see it in the broader prospective of the non existent afterlife that doesn't make those experience fade away. I am experiencing them right now, they are real and while I'm alive they aren't pointless because they make my happiness.
So why should I waste the time I have with a consciousness agonising about the time I will not have one (hence i will not suffer, so it's not a bad prospective) and not actually feel good and do stuff that makes me happy?
In my opinion the religious prospective of hell is something much more traumatising than the prospective of just ceasing to exist.
I'm talking about pointlessness because you
talked about people learning things to make parents happy that than die and they "forget" everything they have learned
and I assumed that you meant that living and doing stuff is pointless in the prospective of the after life.
No, some people do stuff in the last days of their parents to make them happy. To let them leave with the knowing that X has been accomplished (grandkid for example). But what does it matter, if the granddad/mother after death can't remember having a grandkid because of missing consciousness.
the point is they will have been happy in that moment (not sure about the verbs since nnes). Is the happiness of those you care about now not a good reason to fill ypur life with stuff to do?
>So why should I care about what I will (not) someday feel after my death, since as you say I won't have a conscience anymore
Because the thought now can already be painful. That's why I say it's paradox. It agonizes you, although in the exact moment of it, it can't really pain you anymore. You don't even know it happened. You can't even remember your death essentially (if no afterlife).
Yes, you are experiencing everything, but nothing remains for you, in your memory. Only in the memory of others, if there are any.
But the experiences fade away if you have no consciousness anymore in death?
>In my opinion the religious prospective of hell is something much more traumatising than the prospective of just ceasing to exist.
Not so sure about that.
>the thought can be already painful
debatable because stoicism or epicureans.
I agree that when you think about it, if you are an atheist, it can ruin your mood, but why obsess over this? you are alive now, live.
You will (not) think about death when you will die.
To me the most agonizing thing about death is not thinking about one's own but when you are faced with other's death (you have to experience the absence of existence of someone that was in your life).
>nothing remains for you in your memory
I hope that I will remember most of my life until the day I die so I will try to have pleasant memories and experiences. Then I die and won't exist anymore so why should I care about what I (won't) feel when i won't exist anymore?
I can't feel sad that I don't remember things if I don't exist.
For now that I exist I will feel happy about the memories I made so I have to make memories. Happy ones for what I can control.
Why should I avoid living and making experiences (for example by making a family) just because from a pov i will never have it seems pointless?
Why do you consider you own happiness in this right moment pointless?
I exist in this moment so I will do what makes me happy (I'm not talking about hedonism here tho, that makes you miserable, I'm talking long term happiness, every day life happiness, like the exaples in my previous post).
If you strive to live an happy life you will have experienced an happy life, simple as.
Your experiences are your whole prospective, you will never experience death in the sense of conciously expirience it so why live with that pov. your life/experiences THAT is what "remains" for you until u die, in this sense they don't fade away because they are and will be your whole and only reality while u are alive.
>not sure about that
perpetual suffering and torture for eternity vs not existing, i choose not existing.
You're going to exist forever
Yea kids are a high pressure scenario, you either fold or you figure out how to adapt and become much more efficient and hardened than you were before
Didn't even realize this was supposed to be an anti-natalist meme. I unironically took this trade offer because I figured a false sense of purpose is better than none at all.
> needing another human being to give you a sense of purpose
ngmi lmao
God is my purpose.
Children are gifts from God.
Simple as.
I'm trying to keep my faith but it's increasingly feeling like cope & like I'm desperately trying to convince myself God is real
Understandable. God's existence just makes logical sense as per;
Moreover, having faith is a gift in of itself.
I'd suggest upping your prayer life and sincerely asking God for help in your doubts.
Uhh YES, moron.
Even if your reason for being are the sonichu drawings you create alone in your basement and no one else wants to see, you're still creating something in the confines of what someone else already created. Ergo you are reliant on others to have given you your purpose.
You dumb frick.
lmao youre on IST moron dont act like you have any purpose you summer ant
>sense of purpose
>false
And will the resident defeatist say what kind of purpose is true?
I have a kid. Kids don’t kill gains. They might even help with gains. You just need to be better at managing time with kids, that’s literally it.
Having children will lower your testosterone
Speaking as someone with two kids and a third on the way, pre-kids I could have 60-70 non-working hours of waking time in my life to largely spend as I wished. The children have mercilessly gobbled most of that up and now I get about 20 if I'm lucky, most of which gets taken up by quotidian stuff and life admin. Staying in shape with kids is entirely possible, but you have to be efficient about it and manage your time well.
>has a house
>has a good job
>has a wife and kids
Okay? What's there to complain about? You've fulfilled the duty you were brought into this world to fulfil. Quit b***hing, man up, and spend some time with little Timmy so he doesn't end up turning into a hikikomori gamer, a troon, or a drug addict.
Starting a family was what got me into lifting. Can't be weak when you have a son.
I have two now and want to be a good example for them. I grew up fat and do not want that lifestyle for them. Yes it can hurt your gains, you just have yo be efficient with your methods and time given.
>My sleep is dogshit due to my work schedule
The simplest argument to refute a moral nihilist is to kill him.
I'm not a moral nihilist at all (nor do I think morality is subjective). I just don't have any desire for kids; only the craving for women and the desire to protect them.
Your desire for kids is the cause of your craving for women. You want to spread your genes without taking care of them which is the natural survival strategy for males.
after your child is born your testosterone levels go down for a few months
israelite thread
Off topic thread too apparently
Children are gifts from God.
The only reason you are antinatalist is because you unironically believe that sex is for pleasure alone.
If you understood the core purpose of sex is for procreation, you'd change your mind real fast about antinatalism.
Then again, I don't think I've ever met an antinatalist that wasn't a staunch atheist or some larping satanist that is afraid to identify outright as an atheist.
You would call getting cancer a gift from god too so that doesn't mean much. You don't hold your God to any standards so your qualifiers for what is good are meaningless.
Nah, these people call cancer a test of faith. And when you survive, you thank God, lol.
Yes
>God making an integral part of his master plan involve me having a lonely, unfulfilled existence for 80 years before unceremoniously shuffling off the mortal coil with no legacy or achievements of note
He gave you free will and you are actively using it to shitpost and feel sorry for yourself.
You’re still in your 20’s I assume. Go do some shit, you have 60+ years.
My God is your God too and He loves you.
You should have some more respect for your father in heaven.
I have a very cute baby so old ladies constantly talk to my family in public. I got one that walked up, grabbed his lil foot at 4 m.o. and said "babies are a gift from god" and I had to try very hard to not joke back "then we had all that SEX for nothing!?"
That rebuttal is moronic anon, God is the creator of the human body and made it so sex would make babies, but it clearly doesn't -always- make babies even for those who try because something is wrong. So in that sense, yes you're lucky you don't have those issues, aka blessed.
"Gift from god" sounds like this celestial little giftwrapped box wafted down out of a cloud with my gooey little frogfaced newborn son inside.
I guess with birth rates plummeting and fertility in the toilet, healthy pregnancy and birth can start to feel miraculous.
I dunno anon, the whole process of pregnancy and childbirth itself is strongly spiritual and changes you, and gives the mom a deep bond with her baby and an amazing direct involvement in the formation of the little one and the bringing of them into the world. Descending from a celestial box would not be an improvement.
> Descending from a celestial box would not be an improvement.
Holy based.
Oh shit, it's Big Dog! How much you bench, dude?
I DONT,
GAVE THAT UP ALONG TIME AGO
Why false?
>t. chris watts
Yes goy, embrace extinction 🙂
My wife’s rebuttal
>Not funny
Maybe it was actually made by a woman
>parents who dont cuck to big pharma
can't wait to see your offspring in a mini coffin without any vaccines, kek
>"Oh, you wanna raise your kids a different way?"
>"I hope they fricking die lmao"
See, people like you are the reason antivaxxers exist. I'm not an antivaxxer but I don't want to be associated with you. You're scum for wishing death upon an innocent child.
BASED
Lol everybody point and laugh at moronic vaxxie who thinks regurgitating lines from ~~*dr house*~~ makes him a smart person
>fit poster looks like absolute shit
pottery, nobody here lift anymore and we get proofs every day
Wow, so much seething from a childless troony and no body posted.
Now explain why anyone should pay any attention to anything that comes out of your wiener-loving mouth?
It’s a fitness board, not a bodybuilding one.
Get fricked sissy.
looks better than 99% of the male population
body post : not detected
opinion : ignored
I'd never do it because we'd get doxxed by trannies but I wish there was shitposter scouts or something to put our kids in and all the autistic dads could mumble about "sneed" during the boxcar derby.
Every parent I meet in the park is either hypernormy or a bug person.
Well so far i only have one irl friend who is a shitlord. I've pretty much given up on meeting more people like him.
But I do dream about opening a small Whites-only, men-only gym. I could be openly racist with my boomer regulars and teach barbell lifts and racism to the teenagers.
Kek, based Dadcel. I can't guarantee I'll ever have kids or be there for them as I have other dreams, but the baby will likely grow into a chad
THE BEST LIFE,
PIC OVER A YEAR OLD
plumper pig smusher oinker
plopping gently on gushy trumples
floppily falling from smushy frumps
to graze placidly on greasy truffles
This is the best poetry I've read on this image board. 7/10
How long did it take to work off the baby weight?
ONGOING,
WE ARE ALL REMOULDING,
OUTSIDE AND INSIDE
I realized that people who are selfish enough where they just make kids without caring in the slightest about le israelites and such, just following their programming, I actually came to respect that more.
Everything is bad and we should kill ourselves is pathetic.
consciousness is the most glorious gift the world has ever seen, I wish for a world where as many people are born and live as possible, so more can expirience the gift of being alive
Until they are dead and they don't even know that they were conscious once, cause they have no consciousness anymore
Proof?
What's there to prove? Anyone knows that once you're clinically dead your brain shuts down and so does your conscience.
>What's there to prove?
>so does your conscience
???
You need to prove that the consciousness is entirely and exclusively tied to brain activity.
Note that this is significantly more involved than probing a brain and seeing parts light up when a person thinks a certain way etc. as it requires a strong understanding of what precisely causes consciousness to arise.
Did you have consciousness before you were born?
The consciousness generating at the same time as the body doesn't mean they can't be separated. There's nothing contradictory about religious doctrines for example that say the soul and body can be separated, but that there is no preexistence of souls and both soul and body are created in the same moment and grow together.
So the soul is consciousness as you imply. The soul is in the brain then?
>The consciousness generating at the same time as the body doesn't mean they can't be separated.
What are the chances they live and die together in contrast to one survives, especially if you somewhat imply the soul lies in the brain. Consciousness probably lies in the brain.
I did not imply the soul is consciousness.
No, why would the soul be in the brain?
There is no argument to be made from probability here.
back to the starting point then
you have to prove that conciousness lies in the brain and that the death of one causes the death of the other.
They could very much be only communicating (and so influencing each other) w/o being physically tied to each other for all we know.
Not as far as I know, but as far as I can tell, I didn't have consciousness until I was almost 3 years old, so I don't see what relevance your question has nor what your point is.
You have no memories, but consciousness yes. A toddler can understand he is the person in the mirror.
How do you know he has a conscious?
Does a fetus have a conscious?
Do ants have a conscious?
I have kids, they have consciousness before they're born, it just isn't the same.
There is no way to prove a casual relationship between consciousness and the brain. There is no reason the physical activity of the brain should produce the non physical experience of consciousness. You can only show that they do have a relationship, but for all we know it is similar to the relationship between a radio station and your car's radio.
Proof for afterlife?
Before you answer:
You claim there is an afterlife and consciousness after death. You gotta proof the existence. I can't prove the nonexistence.
>You gotta proof the existence
Ghost videos bruh
thats why we need to work on eventually becoming immortal, thats humanities destiny
>The burden of human consciousnesses
Cheer up, OP. Your child won't have to worry about that because they'll probably be an NPC just like you.
Tuck off with your nihilistic bullshit. I'll have at least 3 kids and there is nothing you can do to stop me or my future wife
cool, i had a similar line of thinking many years ago on the topic of God which lead me down the path to religion eventually
Haven't had children yet (trying with wife) I assume the first couple years (at least the first year) kills your gains because you'll have absolutely no sleep or inadequate sleep. You're entire schedule is dependent on a little tyrant that shits themselves. After the first couple years and especially once their five they start going to school so if you plan accordingly your gains should return. If you aren't a "get up at 4am to lift" kind of guy then you will need to become one or your gains are gone for the foreseeable future.
Honestly the sleep is a mix of a dice roll and how you guys rear the baby. A lot of modern advice is going to rob you of sleep unnecessarily, and sometimes the kid actually just sleeps decently. People sow FUD about babies way too much.
>dont nurse the baby to sleep
This is dumb, sometime between 1-2 the kiddo will naturally begin passing out without nursing. Between 0-1.5 the kiddo needs a ton of milk and it just makes sense they nurse to sleep. There are compounds in breastmilk that specifically make baby (and mom) sleepy, take advantage
>don't cosleep
If you're not fat, drunk, or a smoker, it's fine. When they are brand new they are pretty fragile, but they also sleep more than youd expect since they're so exhausted, and until 4-5 months swaddling them works very well to keep them asleep. You'll be able to see when your little potato has enough life in them to safely sleep by mom, and trust me, a healthy new mom feels the baby's presence in bed and wakes when they wake naturally. Just keep their face away from blankets. A floor mattress (actual shikifuton is best) is ideal for this, and actually good for your back too, but you don't -need- it. If you're really worried a crib right next to the bed will work fine, and make sure there's a comfy chair to nurse baby in the middle of the night. It's tiring but it's manageable.
In the last months of pregnancy your wife will likely start waking up through the night naturally, in preparation.
As the dad when the baby is brand new, there's not too much you have to do. Wife cares for baby - you primarily need to care for the wife. Hold/watch the kiddo so she can do other stuff for chunks of time (shower, get food, etc). Bring her stuff, hang out with her to mitigate the boredom and stir craziness.
Ruck with baby strapped to your back.
Hammer curl your baby.
Then do your notmal one hour workout while wife watches baby.
> Does starting a family kill your gains?
No, not inherently.
> Does starting a family with a woman who doesn't fulfill all of the traditional gender roles and thusly rearing of the child is 90% her problem kill your gains?
Yes.
What are your family fitness goals?
For me? It's us all doing the tour de mont blanc when the youngest is 9-10.
Gives you an even stronger purpose. There's NO better feeling in the world tha. Seeing your baby smile at you.
Only childless morans would disagree.
It's not a false purpose tho. You are know completely responsible for the growth and development of a human being that you are unleashing into the world in 18 years. It's an unbelievably large responsibility
this is literally a israelite propaganda thread
My family and circle is very religious so I know a lot of young families and homesteaders and the like. And I have come to the conclusion that there is harm in how these groups normally think and talk about marriage. It's a fertility cult. It's super duper encouraged to just go ahead and marry at 19 or 20 with very little regard for life plans, finances, etc. They normally have pretty short engagements but it's all encouraged because they THINK that they are doing what good traditional people used to do.
But they are not. We are much less mature at 20 than people 100 years ago, we have weaker communities, less competence to live in the world and make decisions.
And further more, one key aspect of traditional values is curiously absent from all these trads I know. And that's the importance of having both families approval of a marriage. That kept things much more sensible. But now we have immature kids just getting married with no money and pumping out kids. The guy who married my sister was and is a fricking idiot, they were both 20 at the time. My father didn't like the idea of them marrying, but the modern notion of it being a complete personal choice was too strong so he said nothing. And go figure their family is a mess, the kids are not being given a good life, homeschooled but socially isolated. The dads still a goofball.
1/2
I got really off topic, but this is something I know about and annoys me. I'm 100% imbedded in these trad circles, so when I see the common rhetoric online I always want to point out problems with it. In this case it's the whole idea that every guy should just marry a trad wife and have a beautiful big family, that's the goal of life. Well that's a misleading thing to say and it creates these weird dysfunctional families where the parents read heaps and heaps of literature on rearing kids. There's something wrong in that, having a family should be more implicit and not praised so much. Kids should be treated more like individuals and less like these projects to create the perfect christian culture.
I don't want kids, I do want a woman though so I could imagine she'd just convince me to have them which seems like the natural order.
Ok I'm done, I know this is all cringe sorry.
2/2
You seem like a reasonable and pretty cool guy. I liked how you identified the source of your dislike for tradculture in your life.
I have a similar dislike for PC culture because I was raised PC. I realize intellectually there are some good things about it, but whenever I see it it makes angry and fear abandonment.
sometimes the person's family is trash though. not everybody comes from a good family, especially in these evil times
First son is seven weeks old right now and my lifts have never progressed at this rate before. I have read that the second child causes big prolactin spike, but the first causes big test spike. Will report findings in a few years I guess, but so far no, it does not kill your gains
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Couvade_syndrome
yes it will, OP. Best case scenario for gainz: do not spend an excessive amount of time with your woman.
I’m 35 lbs lighter than when my first kid was born 3 years ago and my total is up 270 lbs. No it doesn’t.
>steals all of your free time, prevents you from sleeping, increases your stress level 100fold, turns your wife insane
sounds like it to me, at least for a few years
but you still have to do it or else chudley the 470lb hapa will lecture you about your bloodline and biological mission again
I do have a kid, he's 5months now. For now I can still exercice (gym is close, and I do have a homegym, I train at my homegym mostly.
Without the homegym, yes, It'd probably kill my gains, because I'd feel selfish to leave all the responsability to my wife, even tho I feel a bit selfish to train for 1hour and half. But she doesn't mind at all. The thing is, I want a 2nd kid, and then it may kill my gains. Will see.
Reminder that antinatalism filtered Jordan Peterson and his only counterargument is "how original".
temporarily, yes. mainly due to a lack of sleep. highly suggest taking the home gym pill if you can. things get better when they're past the toddler age.
It depends. I have two children. I stopped going to the gym because I was working 2 jobs and wanted all of my free time dedicated to being with my wife and children. I only recently started up again after 4 years. My lifts definitely suffered and I gained some fat, but my arms and shoulders got bigger and stronger from carrying my kids everywhere.
I imagine that if you make enough money that you don't have to pick up a second job to cover family expenses, you would be able to keep going to the gym and only see gains from having kids.
No once you have kids you basically made it. You did your purpose and kids change you. You basically learn a lot of empathy seeing them grow.