Actual downsides, or just a myth? Only one that can't be mitigated seems to be neurotoxicity, but i've also heard its in 300mg+, so....
Downsides of Roids before 25?
Actual downsides, or just a myth? Only one that can't be mitigated seems to be neurotoxicity, but i've also heard its in 300mg+, so....
I miss him so much bros
he told us not to roid, but it seems worth it, even at 20, I'd do everything right, it's just I'm scared for perma shutdown, and brain damage, thats it.
Rich said you should only roid if youre going to compete in bodybuilding shows
i just wanna gain strength/size while cutting and not molest my hormonal panel again (aside from the pct) then maintain for the rest of my life and never look back at this hellish wasteland as i'll be damn near 100% or 105% natty limit, whatever i lose i lose, frick it i dont care
there is no "natty limit" after you do a cycle moron, you're not natty anymore
the limit in which my natural production wouldn't be able to hold the muscle I have is my natty limit
the literal definition of natty limit is the farthest you can take your body while being natty the entire time
not roid troonying your way to 405 bench then maintaining the muscle after
no
>compete
this is good advice
legit competition where the rewards match the risks is the only place for PEDs
fitness media, sports, or whatever, you'd need the initial skillset, genetics, support, and achievable long-term goals
anything else just seems foolish
>i'm not scared of anything but BRAIN DAMAGE and i'm still doin it
you know what bud, I don't think you have to worry about that kek
brain damage is the reason i dont want to, aside from "never returning to baseline", which after doing extensive research, seems to rarely happen.
I was going to pin for my 20th birthday in like 3 weeks,
dads side has it, moms side doesn't, but my hair is grown out to shit right now, so if it thins it'll be noticeable/not a problem though
go for it it's your nipples
you're not just safe because you're young
What the hell are you talking about, actual downsides or just myth. Just fricking read up on roids upsides and downsides and delete this trash thread.
I have, however literally all people who took it young went "yeah frick it i didnt notice anything" or "holy shit my life is ruined"
My question is, what are the REAL reasons to not roid Pre-25, and what are just "scare away" reasons, like muh diet and training.
The only "real" reason seems to be neuodegenerative brain damage that is forever in undevloped mice, however it seems thats in doses 300mg+, allegedly
Also also, allegedly its best to roid early, BECAUSE you arewnt fully developed, you "enhance" your natural "limit" so to speak
if you are under 18 you might stunt your growth.
also if you are dht sensitive you are going to accelerate male pattern baldness
Why are you saying stuff that is contentious as if it's the truth?
Like you just decided that it was better for people under 25 to roid, that it doesn't have any side effects EXCEPT neurodegenerative, none of this is widely accepted. If you know all this stuff why are you even asking us, clearly you think you know it all very well. Fundamentally failed thread.
where the frick is the /fraud/ thread anyways bros someone make one
Why bother spending thousands on cycles if you're not going to compete or even have a chance of fitness modeling? You're best bet is to stay natty into your 40s so you've still got cartilage to work with when you start trt. Doing steroids in your 20s is like buying a 3090 to play CSGO. Completely unnecessary.
i wouldn't do multiple cycles, and if i did, I would in fact attempt to make a career out of my body.
Long story short I was morbidly obese, 375+ at 12 years old. I'm 215 now (most likely 205 with the skin) and to do it I ate <15g of fat and 1500cals a day, for like 16 months with a 4 week break. By the end of it my body, mind, and soul was broken.
I need to gain 10-15 pounds of mass and lose 20-25 pounds of bodyfat until i never have to go do this shit again.
I will happily take test to cut and deal with 4-8 weeks of feeling like shit, versus the hellscape that was cutting like that again. It was literally terrible, also to mention i don't feel any better at all, as a matter of fact, my libido, sense of self, drive, willpower, sensitivity to happiness, is just as bad as my max weight, the best i ever felt was that 4 week break. On top of it I tried to keep dieting and binged and ate less for like the last year. So it's probably a comination of diet fatigue, eating disorder, self hate, and lack of emotions due to whatever caused it (as well as natural numbness due to self hatred)
No, I also don't expect test to do the 10 on 25 off.
Dear fricking Lord help this man. ... Bro I hate to tell you this but you absolutely did it wrong. The REAL issues you were having were:
>eating disorder, self hate, and lack of emotions
Those are the things you needed to work on. While you were working on those, you should have taken it easier on yourself Jesus Christ. SMALL changes OVER TIME are what build lasting habits man. You 100% should have built muscle slowly over time while slowly cleaning up your diet. It should have been a slow, 5 year journey not a 1.5 year sprint to turn your body into a human sail. your skin would have had time to adjust better as well.
My training is autistically minmaxed, I've just been perma cutting. I haven't been in a caloric surplus since I started training.
I have 165lbs roughly of LBM at 5'8 - 5'9
My eating (was) autsticially dialed in as well. I had to let go of it but if I ever cheat on my diet while maintaining it's +150cals. However, for a while it was 6 900calorie days and 1 15k calorie day. So I've been trying to maintain for a while I guess, still try to sui-cut and repeating it again.
I'm getting the cut in March or May next year, so I'm basically going to lose all my gains anyways. It's not like it matters cuz then I'll just have a bunch of scars. Maybe I should sell the cycle I got and look into hgh for the healing, idk.
OK you typed a bunch of words in there but you did it wrong man. It's important to realize you did yourself a disservice with your autism. How you actually build "good" habits is the following:
>Track how much you eat normally
>Then, when you have the average of let's say a month of your lard-ass eating habits, you start by subtracting 100 calories a day
>You weight lift 3-4 times a week
>You walk or other low impact cardio like cycling or the elliptical 2-3 times a week
Then you keep that up for another month. If you notice that you're losing weight... you stay at that caloric intake or perhaps subtract another 100 calories per day.
For example, let's say your lard-ass diet is 6,000 calories a day. OK, fine, you eat 5,900 calories a day and lift weights 3-4 times a week and walk 2-3 times a week. You do that for a month straight and you track your weight loss or gain during it. Then you make small adjustments.
What you did was go from 6,000 calories a day to 900 and then hold it there for 16 months. ... that's NOT how you do it. Look at your results! You're a human sail and you hate yourself and you're trying to take a short cut by roiding. You call that "winning"?
WTF. Look in the mirror and realize you fricked up. Stop trying to roid your way out of it and instead consult an actual doctor about your human skin sail surgery options. But if you don't fix your HABITS it won't matter anyway.
The loose skin wasn't because I lost to fast or anything, I was just that big bro. I am getting the surgery in March. I've maintained this weight for 1 year, and roughly 3 without starving/binging.
I plan on cutting until October 1st or Jan 1st, this will give me either 6 or 3 months to maintain the new weight, to ensure I can maintain it after surgery. And also eat at a "proper" deficit, instead of 1500cals. Which by the way is only a 1k deficit for me.
Roiding my way out of it would be so I don't have to bulk later, as well as my surgery will be better (He'll get more skin/fat), and I won't nuke my shit on a cut again. However, I'll be down for 3ish months anyways, and will probably lose gains anyways, but since I "built it" it'll be easier to achieve.
Yeah but imagine I was a super roider beast and was 240lbs on cycle, then pct'd off and 3 years later ended up at 190. I'd never cycle again and that's as big as I'll ever be "natural"
I don't know if it matters but based of the shitty scans i get I also had 185lbs of LBM when I was obeast, so that seems to be about as big as I'll ever get anyways, at what bf% idk.
>375 at 12 years of age
I don't believe you
>180 in 2nd
>350 in 6th
>465 in 10th
>225 in 13th
Roiding wont fix that.
You literally just need to keep going and not worry about "gaining mass bro"
i just want abs at 195 i really dont care about the skin, i also want it it's not even for anyone else it's not like i take my shirt off anyways LMAO
Gonna waste my natural physical potential and significantly shorten my life span/not even an elite athlete.
I would consider it in my 40's.
Not under 25 when Im barely tapping my potential.
Its your life; frick it up however you want.
is 1, low dose cycle of AAS going to SIGNIFICANTLY shorten my lifespan? not anymore than being 350+ did.
will it cause something inside me that's a no go? I don't know..
No, it won't. Plenty of people use all kinds of recreational drugs and live normal healthy lives once they stop.
that too, what more damage will it do then degens lighting it up right now? or people getting hit in sports?
maybe becuase it's right here I'm backing out, I don't know. I am fairly cool and collected, and whether self admittedly or not, vary visually and spatially aware, maybe thats autism, but my ability to learn and shit is fine. i just cant stand topics i hate. also i have black/hispanic genes, so i'm already androgenic as frick, theres a chance i already finished growing too...
I did 2 500mg test cycles at 23. First was 10 weeks, second was 16. I think the second batch of test was weak, didn't feel too good. First cycle was godly. Put 100 pounds each on squat and deadlift. I didn't feel too good for a month after the second cycle, but I'm fine now and more fit than I've ever been. Definitely not as strong though (although my deadlift is getting close). I'd recommend one 10 week cycle just for fun.
it was gonna be 16 weeks on 300 test e and 6 weeks on 25 var, with hcg.
I seriously cant tell if its a meme to wait or not. It is shown that AAS use in adolescense causes "some" disfunction when "abused" however, it also shows that you LITERALLY become better in function as a human compared to if you didn't touch shit, this is better the younger you are (16-21)
I think its mostly about reaching your natural potential, which you definitely haven't before 25. I don't give a frick what you think I've been training since sophomore year in highschool and made more gains from 24-25 than I did in all the years before. Let your endocrine system and pre frontal cortex fully develop and savor looking youthful. After 25 and especially with PED's you're gonna look like a grown ass man, which is cool too, but why rush there. You don't get to go back and you spend the next like 50 years that way
yeah but what if i already know everything i need to. people think i look 30 anyways.
but i wouldnt go bald in 24 weeks
The real answer is that you cannot really know the downsides because it all depends on how your body reacts to increased levels of hormones.
Do something like a basic Test E 500mg/week cycle for 16 weeks, see how you react in terms of acne, balding, mood, and things like that. If your body is fine, you can then proceed with longer cycles/other compounds etc, if your body reacts badly, you know what's the downside and then you have to decide if it's worth it continuing or not.
but the issue comes with the use of a cycle
what if it's my shutdown cycle? what if i get antsy and ocd or something?
I do not want to TRT for life, that sounds miserable. Especially for something as menial as 10lbs of muscle. However, I bottom out test wise on cuts anyways, so I figured what's the difference?
it's just how i type, sorry, the only known side effect that doesn't seem to be compatable is hpta shutdown (rare) and possible brain issues.
There are others, but those seem to be mitigated/overblown, however info and brain stuff seems little, even htpa shutdown is extremely overblown, but possible.
Do I agree, yes.
>but the issue comes with the use of a cycle
>
>what if it's my shutdown cycle? what if i get antsy and ocd or something?
Jesus dude what?
I've seen that while it's unlikey to have permenant HTPA shutdown, it can happen, for some that's cycle 12, for some that's cycle 1
What if I do it, frick it right? And it truly does have neruo effects on me, then what? No Refunds? I guess it's my life right, I was hoping someone has seen or researched or did it themsevles to know...
Bro, you're being hypochondriac, you're looking at like 1 in a billion anomalies and worry that it will happen to you. Also what the frick are you even talking about neurotoxicity in your OP post, do you really think that Testosterone is a neurotoxin? Unless you're planning on blasting Tren on your first cycle, you don't have to worry about it.
I know man, I'm so fricking worried about all this shit, I can dissuade the rest, but these 2 things are fricking me.
I also seem to believe the dose I'm taking isn't even neurotoxic (test is at doses 300-400+?) and I'd be taking 300mg,
I think i'm just being a fat pussy. But muh 25 to wait! says 90% of the fourms. I've researched so much I have to filter shit out now. The last thing seems to be the brain shit, which I just recently found out (can you tell?). The htpa i "debunked" a few weeks ago.
>I also seem to believe the dose I'm taking isn't even neurotoxic (test is at doses 300-400+?) and I'd be taking 300mg,
How did you even arrive at that conclusion? And you should probably do 500mg anyway.
Also you're talking about being 20-25% BF which is probably why I wouldn't recommend you doing Test right off the bat, you will aromatize much more estrogen, and also you will be in deficit anyway, and also your side effects like low libido and low drive are probably caused by you being fat.
hours of reading bro posts, real studies, and bro videos with real studies that I can't even remember where I found, which is why I'm still on the fence with it. Essentially it's something about the fact that it works on dopamine and serotonin yet the estrogen counteracts it for the most part, but basically after 300 or 400mg it stops being used for good ad the estrogen doesnt keep up. I think.
I've always had those sides, but I've always been fat, my diet is clean and my lifestyle is healthy I'm just still big af. I understand the aromatization that may be a problem, and yeah I planned on cutting. After looking into it, I don't see a need for above 375, i think that I'd just be using more for less benefit at that point. And If I use 300 I can make it longer.
I suppose I'm talking as if roiders are hiding some secret shit, this may be because after looking into it, they very well fricking are sometimes. I'm talking outloud in my words when I write it which is the problem. Essentially, there are a lot of overblown, oversaid, and overbelieved things about steroids from what I've gathered. However, there are a lot of undersaid, underbelieved, about them as well. The 2 that I can't come to a conclusion on is brain damage, and htpa shutdown. The htpa shutdown seems to be a dice roll, however brain damage seems to come to an extent, which may or may not be mitagated by doing XYZ. Which is a main concern.
I feel as if roiding at <25 isn't as bad as people play it out to be. However, 5-10lbs of LBM for indefinite brain stunting?
I should note that many of the "steroid side effects" that are considered bad I have anyways; low libido, low drive, meh energy, and more, but i figure that may be for other reasons.
I can do 2-4 hours of MISS and 90 minutes of weights, I DONT do it, as I have overtrained heavily before, but i'm not out of shape, despite being 20-25% ish, just fat
>seem to be this/that/blah
Not everyone here thinks or has the same beliefs you do bro, why would you think that. Like as I said before, you're coming here for help, but at the same time it's more like you're telling everyone else what the reality is. You can't be both the asker and the answerer at the same time.
Your framing of things like "scare away" reasons is not how other people are going to view it either. If someone is totally against roids, they're not looking at it as "scare away" except in the sense of you should be scared.
TRT is the best decision I ever made. Yes it sucks thinking about pinning for the rest of your life but the pros outweigh the cons. Every man alive today has lower test levels than previous generations of men and you will benefit from it. I am better in every way after hopping on test.
>Every man alive today has lower test levels than previous generations of men and you will benefit from it.
parroted cope
OP just fricking roid already so you can start posting in the balding threads
>cope
its literally a fact
You should take tren right now. It will make you strong as an ox.
dudes will talk about how hairline is everything then go on roids and frick their hairlines
I don't really care about my hair. Granted it's because I have a lot of it, but I'd just end up looking like a white hispanic twink breeder if I had to go bald.
not my preferred look, but yeah. I'd also stop if I started shedding, but I only planned on one anyways.
A look into the twisted up mind of the prospective roid troony is always appreciated, as it confirms the righteousness of many of my choices lol