>Dude, every other bodybuilder in history have been wrong, just work LESS to achieve your goals haha
>Also, take gear
>Dude, every other bodybuilder in history have been wrong, just work LESS to achieve your goals haha
>Dude, every other bodybuilder in history have been wrong, just work LESS to achieve your goals haha
>Also, take gear
Don't work out at all. Think about going to the gym (optional)
Trust the science, chud.
I do a set of bench press with 90 kg for 5 reps. Next week I do a set of 90 kg for 6 reps and so on, but I won't grow muscles because of duh
Don't bother, beginners just don't understand it. Everyone has to pay their dues. I mean sure when you are benching 50kg and you are all hyped up watching yourself in the mirror 20 times a day and listening to anime hardstyle I get it you can go to the gym 6 days a week and keep adding weight day after day, week after week.
Once you reach a certain genetic threshold, whether that's 100kg bench or 120kg, that 5th rep will simply never become 6th rep if you are benching 3 times a week or whatever. Absolutely I have made gains on a PPL split. I have increased my volume, performed more reps etc. but the only way to truly break plateaus and get bigger is to get stronger. And you don't get stronger by upping the volume. You get stronger by doing less volume. Bench once a week, focus on getting stronger.
No person on this earth lifts 1/2/3/4 but is bigger than someone that lifts 2/3/4/5. Simple as.
>No person on this earth lifts 1/2/3/4 but is bigger than someone that lifts 2/3/4/5. Simple as.
I dunno I bench 160kgs and I'm small
>No person on this earth lifts 1/2/3/4 but is bigger than someone that lifts 2/3/4/5. Simple as.
i personally know 2/3/4/5 powershitters who literally look dyel. and guys who are objectively huge (roiding of course) and are not even hitting 1/2/3/4 because they're training with huge volumes and very little intensity.
intensity training is pretty damn bad for stimulating growth.
that's just not true. there are plenty of people ripping 500lb deadlifts and are skinny and look like shit. cbum is Mr Olympia and doesn't go above lmao2pl8 bench. your diet and your volume are gonna ensure size gains. and they have little to do with strength
>that's just not true. there are plenty of people ripping 500lb deadlifts and are skinny and look like shit.
They are not doing slow and controlled conventional deadlifts.
>cbum is Mr Olympia and doesn't go above lmao2pl8 bench.
He can casually deadlift 7pl8 and then incline press 405.
No you moron you get stronger by eating more
>genetic threshold
>100kg bench
Is this what dyels really believe?
There are advanced bench programs that ask for 4x a week bench, you don't know what you're talking about, or how to program intensity
Advanced, meaning you already have muscle and you're just refining the technique to peak the lift. How to program intensity, meaning not programming it at all because you already have muscle and you need frequent concentric practice at this point.
You can definitely make strength gains without going to failure all the time. Sheikos whole methodology is that you train the lift (skill) to get stronger. Not destroying your muscles with failure let's you move the weights more often, it's not just peaking your strength
Noobie gains anything works
b-but i thought HIT only worked on advanced lifters and roiders??
volumebros.... which is it?? whats the line???
Yes and also Yes.
Noob lifters can see dramatic gainz because they are untrained and any gypsy magic will work for a noob lifter.
Advanced lifters also benefit due tot he simple fact the amount of weight they move puts so much strain on the body they can see growth with less volume.
The problem is the high noob- intermediate lifters. Doing HIT without Steroids at that point will unironically damn you to lifting hell.
This has got to be one of the most moronic things I've ever read. You're telling me this training style works for beginners and advanced lifters, but NOT intermediates?
I'm not that moron, but a few things to consider:
noob gains are a real thing for like 6 months, usually the recommendation for beginning lifters is 3x full body
they can recover from minimal work fine
also their technique sucks typically
for experienced lifters, they have good technique and should be able to generate a huge amount of stress/muscle damage, comparatively
I can't really speak to recover times, which is where this dumb shit mentzer stuff comes in, but:
>train and induce good muscle damage (0-30 reps, 0-3RIR)
your next session for that muscle should be dictated by that muscle recovering on time (ie. no doms, no performance impact, etc.).
essentially, just autoregulate your next training session, not le heckin mentzer said to train every 2 weeks for full recovery
Rest is a limiting factor. If an advanced lifter is doing so much damage to their body that they need two weeks before hitting that group again, then fine. The beginners are NOT harmed by taking that same amount of rest, if they so choose.
do you think that advanced lifters need that much recovery?
do you think that all muscle groups have the same volume requirements and recovery needs?
>do you think that advanced lifters need that much recovery
There probably are some. What I know for certain is that atrophy does not begin within 2 weeks, so taking 2 weeks of rest is a valid option.
>do all muscles have the same volume requirements
Yes. All skeletal muscles (possibly the heart as well) require the same stimulus, which is triggered by exceeding a certain intensity threshold.
>Yes. All skeletal muscles (possibly the heart as well) require the same stimulus, which is triggered by exceeding a certain intensity threshold.
is the thinking that rest dictates how much volume you need to grow?
people could easily do 20 sets a week for side delts, but not 20 sets for hamstrings
or are you talking in terms of relativity, where "intensity threshold" just means taking a set close to failure?
>is the thinking that rest dictates how much volume you need to grow?
I don't think so. I'm not sure I understand the question.
>people could easily do 20 sets a week for side delts, but not 20 sets for hamstrings
Just because they can doesn't mean they should, or need to. How many sets are required to stimulate growth?
>set close to failure
In order for any set to stimulate growth, it has to exceed a certain intensity threshold. If your body isn't stressed out enough, it has no reason to adapt.
(This last fact is not at odds with typical high volume training, so don't bite my head off volumegays)
>do you think that advanced lifters need that much recovery?
As per Mentzer;
Your strength and output increases much faster than your recovery ability, meaning that the stronger and more advanced you are, the more rest you will require.
>do you think that all muscle groups have the same volume requirements and recovery needs
No, which is why for the "Ideal Program" Legs have higher reps and are trained more frequently
Chest is also hit on day 3 and arms and delts are also hit on day 1 so it's the same frequency as legs. I'm not sure what he's doing with the lats.
Also more reps is not more volume. More sets is.
this is a really pitiful program
I'm glad you've found something you feel strongly about, best of luck with your training
Why do more than what is required?
Doing more to “get” more is childish logic that applies to anything in life.
By your assumption, doing 1000 sets would mean you could amass huge amount of results/gains, and 2000 sets would garner double/more than 1000 sets.
The only reason why you do more sets/volume is because you haven’t grown out of that childish illogical pattern.
Less is more. You have to be an adult to understand this concept and it goes beyond lifting.
Nice straw man argument
It isn't a strawman dumbass. Research was made in an effort to find why A students got As and 99% of them studied less but more effectively. Now call that a strawman.
oh well that settles it lmfao. Why is it every bro I know who does legs 1-2x a month has no legs but jacked everything else?
Like that Tom Platz guy.
That natty guy with big legs? Are you using the same drugs as well as workout program? If not you have no point.
so a student who studies 1 second a week should get the maximum grade lesser is better
Are you even trying to understand the point being made? Come on now
yes and thats the logical progression of the moronic point you are trying to make now post body or frick off dyel homosexual
I spend 3 hours studying while also listening to music and watching tv. I get a C
I spend one hour studying, no tv no music, making flash cards etc. I get an A.
Do you understand now?
>reddit spacing
Im trying to help you understand. Being a homosexual has clearly dulled your senses.
Just eat 1000g of protein a day and you will get ripped as your body converts ALL of it into muscle, it's so easy!
I don’t think you know what a straw man argument is
>The only reason why you do more sets/volume is because you haven’t grown out of that childish illogical pattern.
no the reason is because we don't buy into your theory.
>just work LESS to achieve your goals
You actually work significantly harder, just less frequently, which is why so many fear it.
Not everyone can muster what is required to train infrequently and get results but any moron can chain out sets with 2-3 RIR 6 days a week
Mentzer is an 80 IQ meathead spouting dumb bro science
People who fall for this shit Unironically wait 4-7 days to workout out again. It’s actually insane
Anti-HIT posters prove they haven't been inside of a commercial gym ever in their lives.
If training to failure is counter-productive, then everyone who stops their set at RPE5 in a commercial gym would be jacked. But they are not.
1 set to true positive failure is all it takes to stimulate growth. After that, you recover as needed to become stronger, even by a little bit.
>b-but the optimal amount is-
Who cares? If I told you you can progress even by 500 grams on your bench press every second week, for the next 10 years, that would be 120kg on your bench in a decade, you are telling me you wouldn't be satisfied?
>If training to failure is counter-productive, then everyone who stops their set at RPE5 in a commercial gym would be jacked. But they are not.
yes totally anon. the only factor in determining normies at the gym's physiques is their RPE.
we can safely assume that they are keeping up a consistent routine, have a proper diet, are getting enough sleep, aren't getting plastered on the weekends. those can completely be ruled out. normal gymgoers would never do that and those shouldn't even be entertained as factors in this little anecdote of yours.
drooling moron
Mentzer was a spastic sperg but he was correct about taking time to recover to grow muscle. Why does IST refuse to accept this logic and instead think they can lift 6 days week like every other roidtroony?
At base, these broken bucks don't want to have to develop a personality outside of the gym. They think it truly matters. So far ALL of Mike's critics are ugly fat powershitters and/or fitness industry industry shills trying to sell you things. This while Mike's biggest advocates are the likes of Dorian Yates, Steve Reeves and John Hart who freely gave advice tailored to both /frauds/ and natties and had success in the sport and in life.
Why do people always assume you need to be on gear to do high intensity training? Mentzer said he worked out for 30 minutes 4 times a week on roids to compete. He suggests working out 1-2 times a week for natties.
His dogmatic notion that high volume doesn’t work is obviously incorrect and is understandably used as ammo against him, but doesn’t invalidate the high intensity method (which isn’t his invention to begin with, not sure why he’s the only person ever associated with it here).
Jordan Peters and Dante Trudel are much more intelligent versions of what Mentzer thought he was talking about.
In fact, cancel your gym membership, never work out again
I go to an expensive gym and going from 6 days down to x1-2 per week max is not worth it. I will go to a cheaper gym next year after this heavy duty stuff going on. I lift every 5 days now. Making huge gains after being the same since 2021. Thanks Mike
post body before and after unironically, I'm interested to see the results
I can’t take an after pic now cause of no pump, haven’t trained upper for 2 weeks. Will post on Saturday. Gained some muscle tho
figured
I thought you were supposed to take pics without pump. So everyone is cheating when they post?
Giving it a try about 2 weeks in now. It's fricking hard pushing to failure. Post workout I sit on a bench outside the gym catching my breath feels like I would throw up if I start biking home immediately.
post body volume cuck
Literally every competitive bodybuilder alive
Great, if we're playing that game
*mogs you and all your idols*
Fricking hell, Yates had an impressive physique. One of the first "mass monsters" but dude was well developed.
looks worse than high volume pros and other Olympia winners
awwwwww
no body?
not surprise because you mentzer homosexuals never post body
dyel Black folk
What is seen is the few genetically gifted or chemically enhanced bodybuilders that see success on a high volume routine. What is unseen are the many millions of men that saw mediocre progress on those programs pushed by the hyper-famous drug users *cough Chris Hemsworth and Dwayne Johnson cough* and subsequently quit bodybuilding, convinced they would never make it.
people who fall for the mentzer meme obviously haven't actually looked into him, because if you read some paragraphs from his books you'll see how he's just the first guy trying to pull this "scientific lifter" thing, his writing reads like a satire of what redditors think smart people say/write, he deliberately strings together a bunch of word salad of complicated sounding jargon for 9 sentences just to say something along the likes of "focus on lowering the weight slowly"
what people should just take from him is to lift your weights slowly and do eccentrics aswell, rather than focusing so much on powerlifting style training, but basically every bodybuilder says this.
ah i forgot to say
he was basically SELLING this, a promise to normies at the time, that they could make MORE gains with LESS TIME, which probably would have worked at the time for some people anyways, because people didnt really know shit yet back then.
"get more for less"
has always been a go to con man phrase, of course it sounds great. But what I find more ridiculous are the claims he made ppl using his program made, no photos or any evidence of course but saying ppl made 20-50lbs of muscle in a matter of months. Insane shit.
It was likely roiders with muscle memory getting back on a cycle. Such claims are not outlandish for such guys recouping losses from an extended downtime, gaining 20+ lbs of mostly lean mass in a few months. It's not necessarily new gains at all just them filling back out to their roidtroony maxed state quickly.
But this, and other such marketing tactics doesn't really detract anything from the core concept of HIT and those natty and not who have successfully implemented the practice.
I always had the mind set of challenging myself every workout, a lot of his stuff I thought was obvious because it's how I started..It's more his frequency that I disagree with, everything else is pretty logical for the most part.
That makes perfect sense anon. I've listened to his interviews and he seems to have given different recommendations over the years, sometimes more seemingly outlandish like 6+ days without training, sometimes 48 or 72 hours hrs minimum between workouts. It can be a source of confusion.
For me, I currently do 1-2 sets, 8-12 lifts or exercises per workout. And usually it's 72 hours between weight training workouts except for rest weeks. This has given me the best strength gains paired with helping me not slip back into insomnia or needing more food and other such gains goblins.
>a promise to normies at the time, that they could make MORE gains with LESS TIME
Muscle isn't built while you workout out. It's built while you rest. What makes you believe that you can take LESS rest and build MORE muscle? Seems like snake oil.
>complicated word salad
Mike was easily the most articulate famous pro bodybuilder since Steve Reeves.
>what people should just take from him is to lift your weights slowly and do eccentrics aswell
This isn't necessarily true. HIT is more adaptive than to use any singular manipulation of performing sets or reps. You arguably don't even need to use progressive overload depending on your goal, such as cutting. As long as you are hitting failure in a desired rep range, the work in the gym is then complete. Many of the principles of HIT are better seen as components that one can change for a 6-10 week cycle depending on goals. Achieving muscle failure and a low-set range (1-2 ideally) are the only mainstay.
>he was basically SELLING this
Yes, very different from what Arnold and Wieder were doing. The issue with your argument is that via multiple pro and amateur bodybuilders who found success, HIT has a proven track record of doing much of what Mentzer and Jones claimed (great results in less time invested in the gym). So that kind of shoots your high and mighty routine here to shit.
What is the quintessential HIT really? Just one set to failure?
>intensity training is pretty damn bad for stimulating growth.
No, pure strength training is bad for stimulating growth, which is what good powerlifters do. They lift as heavy as they can once. That's not intensity, its just 1RM training and it's very effective at building strength while minimizing size. You may know them but you clearly haven't trained with them
max-effort lifting isn't bad it's just not quite optimal due to not getting enough time under tension (TUT). The muscle fiber needs approx 15-60 second of TUT to stimulate growth. If the lifter has good recovery so they can get the volume needed they will grow.
So is time under tension the driver of hypertrophy? Why not just do a set with the empty bar for a huge amount of tut and get insane stimulus?
You wont recruit much muscle fiber doing that. You need to use high loads or high high accelerations or a sub-maximal load taken to failure to maximize muscle fiber recruitment,
So I need high fiber recruitment? It sounds like intensity should be the focus and there's no point to focusing on TUT.
You have a range of muscle fibers from slow twitch, fast twitch type IIA, fast twitch type IIB. they have increasing levels of force prouduction but are controlled by higher and higher threshold motor units (neurons) which do not activate easily. The fast twitch motor units control a disprportionate number of fibers, called Henneman's size principle.
Only motor units that are activated will place its fibers under tension. The fibers need to be under tension for a sufficient period of time for the body to receive a growth stimulus. it is this mechanical tension and not the motor unit activation that stimulates hypertrophy.
If you use a sub-maximal load, say a 10RM, initially only some of your fibers activated, starting with the slow twitch and working up. Towards the end some of these fibers fatigue and the body is forced to activate the remainder to complete the reps.
https://www.mtrigger.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Henneman-Size-Principle-MU-Recruitment-graphic-2.png
https://www.athleticlab.com/size-principle/
Principles to optimize muscle fiber recruitment:
- high loads (max effort) or accelerations (dynamic effort) or sub-maximal loads taken to failure (repeated effort). Evidence suggests sub-maximal loads from 6-35 RM work.
- Good form and controlled tempo
- full ROM.
- varying the angles
Good post
Interesting post. I don't know what happens exactly, perhaps this explains it entirely but when I achieve failure in my 2nd and final sets about half way through the workout, I get the most inhuman pump in my forearms, arms and shoulders I've ever felt. A stronger pump than doing drop sets or any kind of hypertrophy training that I ever experienced.
But it takes me days and days to recover fully, usually almost a week. Feels like I fought a bear or some shit bros. I really have to restrain myself in meal prep and avoiding eating because I'm hungrier all the time now too. None of this is a larp and it's weird because I didn't expect any pump at all in doing HIT before trying it, and for the first month or two it never happened. I was doing two workouts in the gym per week before this pattern started and now I kind of hate going to the gym more than ever because getting to that mid point is so grueling. But the pump and the gains so far are addicting.
Eat as much as your body needs especially protein. If you take the muscle group to complete failure you probably only need to hit it once a week.
You cherry pick Mentzer because you know he's a redditor sperg, but ignore Arthur Jones and Dorian Yates.
It's now pretty clear from research that the primary growth mechanism for myofibrillar hypertrophy is mechanical tension. Taking the set to failure with a sub-maximal load, around 6-35RM, maximizes muscle fiber recruitment.
HOW MANY FRICKING MENTZER THREADS DO WE NEED A DAY?
Big Mentzer is pushing an agenda
They've always been pulling the strings on the industry. Telling us we don't need pre workout, we don't need 8 hours of lifting per week, lies about how we won't begin to physically deteriorate if we don't lift every 48 hours. One mentzergay even told me I should try to sleep more and get more rest to get stronger and healthier, why I nearly spat my creatine-mega Oreo(tm) shake in his face from laughing so hard.
I usually see more anti-mentzer threads than pro-mentzer
why is there never a single body posted in these threads?
It has only been popular for like foir or five months, and mostly with younger natties. May take a year or two before we start seeing decent transformations with HIT cultists, if it's legit.
oh for sure because the zoomer trend following lifters are the ones with the best physiques, shit doesnt work for natties
Steve Reeves and John Hart said Mentzer had the right idea, they're as close to nattygoals as can be. I'm natty and giving it a try. Great results so far but I'm still too fat to post body.
More so, I think my CNS was fricked up and this is helping me continue training in some form. It's different for people who aren't starting from a healthier baseline, maybe volume is best for some and HIT for others. I'm finally making progress again with it.
>shit doesnt work for natties
Wrong
Those of you suggesting that HIT is somehow a lazier, easier, less effort approach to lifting have never truly worked to failure before in your lives.
I workout HIT twice weekly and consistently move more weight and punish my muscles considerably more than I ever managed doing volume routines 3 times a week. It's not even close.
You do your three/four sets and because you're struggling to get out those last couple of reps you think you've hit 'failure' and you've done enough work and you go home and eat your 'gains' food thinking you're a bid deal even though you barely worked up a sweat and you can still move your arms freely and you wake up in the morning without a hint of DOMS.
If you do HIT properly you waddle out the fricking gym and you can't go back and hit it with the same intensity for 2/3 days at best, you literally can't. If you can go in the gym 3 times a week and put up your usual numbers you didn't fricking lift hard enough the first time round.
I have been doing HIT for about two months and I have really been enjoying for the simple reason that it has broken me out of the gymcel trap of spending all my free time training.
I have noticed some gains, but mostly just retaining muscle while spending 1/4 of the time in the gym.
In the winter I will probably start upping the volume for something to do, but still plan to incorporate sets to failure moving forward because the pump is real.
inb4 post body
Somebody shaved that poor sasquatch. At least we know they're white now.
nice fizeek bro
Looking forward to the dyelschizos ignoring it and pretending that it never happened
Volume cucks are ignoring you btw
going by what the metzBlack folk say no timestamp so it doesn't count
volumecucks got real quiet
kek he didn't even do that with hit if you could read he's only done hit for two mknths so he built that body with volume but then again you are moronic and brown so why would you be able to read
Has he gotten stronger or weaker in the last two months?
He's practically depleted, emaciated. It's not possible for him to go more than three days without raining without losing his gains. Another month and he'll look like Woody Allen.
>two months
I... I don't understand... you should be catabolic by now... you should be dyel....
Volumebros.... our response??
Likewise brother, this summer i just hit the gym 3 times a week, and shorter sessions than usual, leaving more time for social life, enjoying nature and what not. I retained and if anything gained more muscle. Will go back to more strenght training and volume during bulking season, but for the summer it seems ideal
I've gotten a bit past some old plateaus using his technique and my old shoulder injury isn't flaring up like it seems to enjoy doing. His advice probably isn't perfect but it does help some people.
That's big, if true. Imagine how many people could be lifting again but are worried about a certain joint getting inflamed and causing pain, so they avoid any kind of weight training.
bodybuilding is for meatheads and incels, sports like swimming or mma help you way more solely for the sheer enjoyment of moving your body with purpose and direction. moving metal from A to B like a moron is for bug races and manlets
Aryanpilled take. tbh I have never spoke about this, but doesn't bodybuilding and more so powerlifting strike you as a neolithic tier sport? You're stuck, basically enslaved to a barbell and a physical location in order to make progress. Gymcels end up looking like shit with weird proportions compared to actual athletes, sex havers and people who achieve things irl. The silver age bodybuilders were really the last non-freaks in the sport.
>doesn't bodybuilding and more so powerlifting strike you as a neolithic activity
it is, it doesn't test your reflexes, doesn't test your initiative or energy economization and it doesn't test adaptability, durability nor flexibility. it's a vanity project for homosexuals and mentally ill eunuchs who have nothing to contribute to the physical arts other than standing in front of a mirror and begging strangers for compliments
Nobody gives a shit about being some low iq fighter who spends their days getting their peanut brains rattled around their thick skulls just so they can go home and drink themselves to death. Body building is about the art of optimizing ones health and mind, not being some glorified pitbull for some rich israelite handler.
Completely incorrect take
Body builders have the most aesthetic bodies in all human history
Athletic bodies are some of the most freakish looking bodies
Basketball players for example are all super tall and lanky and have no muscle mass
Swimmers have lanky ass arms with short legs and short bodies
Football players (soccer if you are american) all have big muscular legs and useless upper bodies
The sports industry is a freakshow of disgusting body phenotypes
There used to be a breed of dog which was bred specifically for putting inside a wheel to generate wind power for furnaces in ye olden times
It had a curved spine which allowed it to better run inside the wheel
It was the pinnacle of design for it's job, no other dog breed could compete
Does this mean it looked good or was superior?
Absolutely not, and we let it go extinct when we stopped needing it.
Gymcel cope. Compare the current Mr. O with the US male swim team.
No one wants to look like these freak shows anymore. After the 1980 Mr. Olympia it lost all appeal. The best champ after was Dorian and he used HIT. People want a strong healthy physique and to spend less time in the gym.
Want to spend less time in the gym?
Go for it, it worked for Mike Mentzer, his pupils, and Eddie hall, the worlds strongest man.
Personally I spend about 45 minutes in the gym twice a week and I am in the best shape of my life.
Best of all, my body is muscular all around and well balanced, unlike a sports player freak.
Picture related, micheal phelps (pro swimmer) compared to a regular person.
Micheal phelps has an arm span longer than his body height, size 14US mens feet and freakish large hands.
This is what being the best at a sport looks like, the absolute most disgusting and freakish bodies possible besides obesity.
that's not a normal person on the right actually it's another freak pro swimmer
Normal people have longer body than arms and smaller feet than a fricking size 12 when you're just barely 6 foot tall
>the size 13 at 6'
Have you considered swimming?????
I see your point anon. What I was trying to get to was the more realistic and aesthetic composition of athletes compared to pro bodybuilding and gymcel life these days.
Then you've completely missed my point
The point I am making is that you are WRONG
Sports players are NOT more realistic and absolutely NOT more aesthetic
ANYBODY can go into the gym and lift weights to become a "body builder" or "gymcel", this is a realistic goal and if you try hard enough you can become very aesthetic, if that was your goal of course
SPORTS is not for everyone, sports players are BORN not MADE
Micheal Phelps didn't slap his feet on the floor 100x a day to get size 14 mens, he was born with freakishly large feet
Micheal phelps didn't swing his arms around like a helicopter to make them grow longer, he was born with freakishly long arms
Basketball players didn't get leg extension surgery, they were born with freakishly long legs and arms
SPORTS bodies are NOT obtainable at all, you have to be BORN this way
THE WORLD OF SPORTS is a FREAKSHOW
The biggest freaks succeed against normal bodies
TL;DR You are fricking moronic and fail to see the reality
Picture related, an athletes leg.
Guess their sport by the leg.
HINT: they're not a body builder.
you still have to work since you're competing against other freaks, also are all basketball players stick insects? not really, it has some advantages but not always
Cyclists are mentally ill
Nope. You've become a projecting sperg again unfortunately. Your boomer caps don't help your emphasis on your "point", I understand that proportions of many of these elite level athletes are weird and at the most elite levels they are likely destroying themselves. Shit is irrelevant to the discussion. If we were elite gold medal tier athletes we wouldn't be posting on this forum trying to solve such problems of aesthetics.
Go to any college track meet or wrestling tournament in the US and compare the physiques with those in the local gym, one is obviously more aesthetic and it isn't the strongfat gymcels with the occasional Chad in the mix. We're just coping with weights. This is why the classical ideal always emphasized proportion, which modern bodybuilders and gymcels typically don't. Mr Olympia is a science project freak show more than anything now. The culture is rotten. Only recently are people looking into Steve Reeves and Mike Mentzer's ideas after a very long time without their influence in most of the fitness community. After the 1980 Mr O the sport itself began to lose prestige and for good reason. I'm not a bodybuilder and don't ever want to be associated with them.
Post body plz, I want to believe
"what would it prove?
I look juicy:
>hurr, it's a stolen pic
>you're on gear, doesn't count
>ur a manlet
I look decent, not spectacular
>lmao 3 months of casual lifting
>just eat nothing and do a couple of pushups
I look average:
>lmao dyel
It's an idiot-proof way to win a discussion (in your head)."
coping this hard frick off already just post body or continue to be berated for being a dyel homosexual
Proving my point
what point that you are dyel until you prove otherwise no amount of you coping is going to change that
Answer the question
>freakish
you're goddamn right he's freakish, freakishly good that's what he is you moronic good for nothing gymcel
>bodybuilders have the most athletic physiques
no they don't you gymcel homosexual, they can't do any athletic activities so how are their physiques "athletic" you frickin moron meatheaded baboon
>basketballers have bodies optimized for basketball
>swimmers have bodies optimized for swimming
>football players have bodies optimized for playing football
>see how wrong you are now ? hhahahah
there is a reason you stick to moving metal up and down like an idiot, your brain is comatose at this point for you to be capable of doing anything else
Post body
case in point Black person, he optimized his athletic performance, looked good as a byproduct of his training and actually acquired a skill. something which bodybuilding troons are never capable of
Until the Arnold magazine push to frick with possible competitors, the tendency for most body builders and strength athletes has generally been towards fewer sets and lower reps. It was common for the earlier exercise manuals to recommend something like 60 reps, and that had been whittled down to the 6-12 reps in a set you might see today.
So according to Mentzer, what should one do to gain strength but not (considerable) size
>Do HIT with progressive overload
You may want to consider two sets instead of one, especially if you're not using machines so you don't snap your shit up.
>limit caloric intake to maintenance level
Less calories = less growth, especially body fat
>do cardio
if you plateau with progressive overload you can change the lifts or adjust your macros accordingly. If you're not natty you can ask the /fraud/s what shit you should take to gain more strength without gaining size. But Mentzer insisted that to gain strength is to gain some degree of proportionate size.
>>Do HIT with progressive overload
No.
That will make you grow muscle. Strength without size is is a easy as practicing the concentrics as often as you can. Strength is muscle mass + technique and CNS efficiency so you just train the latter part by not going near failure and practicing frequently.
>limit caloric intake to maintenance level
Yes.
>do cardio
Irrelevant.
>That will make you grow muscle
You cannot gain strength without gaining some muscle, even if you did some weird program for CNS efficiency. You will gain muscle regardless.
>Irrelevant
It's not. Conditioning and improved general fitness will contribute positively towards strength gains.
Force output and mass are certainly linked but you can separate them as much as possible by either doing techniqueless lifts until you want to die in order to gain mass without getting too athletic or by doing technique intensive lifts without ever stressing yourself so as to lift more without making much for gains.
The strength of your cardiovascular system is simply not relevant when lifting short of maximum exertion. It's actually more important when you're trying to get big. Because you want to fail that lift because your arms stopped working and not because you can't breathe.
That's all good anon but I doubt Mentzer would advocate such an eccentric way to program, which was the question. Better to accept that you will gain some muscle and move from that point. Especially since you don't have to balloon up with HIT, you can simply adjust the program for fewer lifts, adjust nutrition and activity outside the gym to ensure you stay quite lean, etc.
I think if I had that specific goal, with no aesthetic or general fitness goals and wanted to train solely for strength and gaining no size (i.e. having autism) I would take a powerlifting course or something instead and like you say train more frequently. But of course without the powershitter diet and lifestyle which will make you larger and fat.
>I doubt Mentzer would advocate such an eccentric way to program, which was the question.
It's concentric, and the question was literally how to do so he would have answered as I did and it wouldn't be any kind of advocacy.
when do you finish an exercise.with rest-pause? is it when you can't do a single rep? Yesterday I did hanging leg raises and after my initial set to failure I could do single reps forever. I stopped after 15 sets (30ish total reps) because it was taking too long.
wowee schizo
A thread where people on average have around 2 posts each? Must be a conspiracy
I'll let you off because I imagine you're exhausted off all that junk volume
>best bodybuilder did it better
Yes.
>1 set to failure is less work
No.
>do first workout with everything to failure (2 compounds 2 isolations)
>next day feel completely wiped out
This will pass, right?
Asking again.
I went to bed at 9 last night and slept through to 8:30 and I still feel tired/fatigued (11am now). Will my body adapt to this or am I overtrained?
funny how everyone else is picking up on the metzBlack folk never post body too kek
I think a couple did post body itt though
Every once in a while someone posts body and says they do hit and then 5 anons post "they never post body" right underneath it. Volumegays just read the op, talk shit, and move on to the next thread.
the one guy who did post body didn't build it through hit though he said he's been doing hit for two months its like you homosexuals can't read either kek
But why hasn't he gone catabolic after 2 months of chronic undertraining?
Yeah, he even said he made gains with 1/4 the gym time
no timestamp tho :^)
>post body
>post body with timestamp
>(you are here)
>prove that it's you in the picture
>prove that you actually do HIT
>prove that you only do HIT
>prove that you have only ever done HIT in your entire life
>prove ...
What evidence will be sufficient? You can't reason with the unreasonable.
exacty what the metzBlack person does to me kek
heres the proof kek
Why don't you stay out of these threads then moron? You're the one causing the argument.
>le strawman argument
why don't you post body if it works so well?
>strawman
nice body kek sure prove hot works
Why don't you post yours?
i already have the resident sperg claims its not me cause i don't timestamp meanwhile praising some guy without a timestamp he's a coping dyel kek
>dodging the question
>still no body posted
That's not what a strawman is. Volumecucking must be bad for the brain.
>doesn't know what a strawman is
since you don't lift you could at least google what a strawman is kek
It's an unreasonable argument considering HIT only recently gained popularity and it can't be a strawman because that's what volumecucks unironically believe.
>strawmanning again
you never played football otherwise you wouldn't be too pussy to post body kek
Cope. I'm fricking jacked and you look like a lacrosse player lmao.
>i'm totally jacked bro i won't post body tho cause i'm actually a dyel incel who never pkayed sports
I'm ripped dude. It's fricking great.
I totally believe it bro nobody ever lies when shilling a workout program
>You dont post body because HIT doesn't work!
>If HIT doesn't work then why does this big guy not lose muscle after doing it for two months, in fact claiming to have made gains?
>s-strawman!
This is your brain on volume lol
There's a guy that's bigger than you on HIT and he's making gains. Accept it. Move on. Maybe go play lacrosse to cool down lmao
how much gains do you think you would lose from not working out at all for just two months? also you have yet to post body cause you're dyel and hiding behind the one anon who did post body kek
>how much gains do you think you would lose from not working out at all for just two months?
But he's making gains therefore it must work, right?
How much time do you think it takes to start losing gains?
how do you know he's making gains because he said so? did he post progress pictures? or do you just believe him because he said it and you want so badly to believe kek sounds like you are a gullible homosexual
Wow you really are impossible to debate because you run and hide from the point. Why should I believe anything you say?
I'll ask again
How long does it take to start losing gains?
Wow you really are impossible to debate because you run and hide from the point. Why should I believe anything you say?
i'll ask again
how do you know he isn't lying?
I don't, and neither do you.
How long does it take to start losing gains?
Two weeks
So if you deloaded for a week between sessions to achieve systemic recovery, hitting every muscle group every two weeks, would you make gains?
Yes you can make gains by lifting every two weeks
It's not really optimal unless you are lifting with insane intensity and trying to move crazy weight
Elite powerlifters train like that
>post a guy on enough gear netzner would bottom for him
Answer the question
i will when you post body kek so never since you're dyel
That you refuse to answer isntead of just saying "no" means that the answer must be "yes", that you would make gains. Correct?
Which means we are in agreement, you can make gains training once a week, hitting every muscle group every two weeks. Correct?
Which means if you train HIT, deloading between workouts and training every 4-7 days, hitting each body part every 8-14 days, before any muscles have enough time to go catabolic, by your own admission, HIT is an effective program that will produce gains. Correct?
you clearly can't cause you are dyel kek
Your implication is that any inability to make gains on HIT is unique to me, therefore implying the admission that HIT works and is a viable program with which to makes gains
I have to go now, feel free to take the last word to damage control your thorough humiliation. Thanks for playing, see you next thread.
but you haven't made gains cause if you did you'd have posted body kek everyone can see you are just hiding
Why would he be humiliated? You don't take what some random said on IST that serious, do you anon? That's pretty sad if it means that much to you
kek you have to believe the cult of metzner or else they get personally offended and have to run off a dialate
I know that you can, but I want to hear the schizo say it. The things he has already stated logically lead to it being true, but he won't say it.
and he didn't get his current body from hit kek
thats just the resident dyelschizo. he's now likely going to post his own timestampless dyeltatshit body and claim he mogs everyone because "he" is lean despite having no real mass after all that volume
why are you ignoring the fact he didn't post a timestamp with it? like you sperg out when i post body kek you are so desperate to shill you dyel program yet you never post body
why are you making it out like my post was made to defend that guy and not just to identify you as the dyelschizo? are you also israeli? i know mental illness runs high in israelites so i wouldnt be surprised
yes he should have posted timestamp, but that doesn't make you any less of a schizo sperging out every thread lol. i'm surprised you have time for all that volume between f5ing that catalog for mentzer threads
and you have never posted body dyel kek
>noo leave our threads alone!!!
go back to your discords or reddit where you can downvote
Verification not required.
> nd you have never posted body dyel kek
Not him but what’s the point of posting body here? 90% of volume homosexuals in my gym are dyels. Everyone I know IRL who does HIT is beefy and strong because they allow recovery to happen.
Also what is your point? I mean (you) come here to justify the program by waiting to see a good physique posted? That’s gay bro. Just try the program for 2 months and you’ll see yourself, you might touch grass aswell with the time you will have available or make more money
100% of hit gays are dyels kek and if they are so beefy and strong post body you won't tho cause you are dyel as frick and ashamed
Hey volumehomosexuals, the first stage is denial, in a month you will be conteplating and by the end of 23 you WILL be doing one set. You WILL take the extra rest day. You WILL touch grass. You will eat 65% carbs and the rest protein and fats. You WILL make it.
post body
Imagine any other athlete claiming this lol, nobody in the world who is good at something does it only once per week
It's only because bodybuilding is so filled with bullshit and gullible contrarians already that any of you even consider this
(His 60/25/15 C/P/F ratio is pretty spot on tho)
>Imagine any other athlete claiming this lol, nobody in the world who is good at something does it only once per week
Bodybuilding is not athletics and there is no skill to practice. Any real athlete needs to practice their craft of course, but a bodybuilder just needs to grow. No skill involved. Only stimulus, recovery and adaptation.
It's still training the muscles and nervous system
>Hard cardio for hours every day etc is essential for any athlete
>But lifting more than 20mins once a week? AIIIEEEE you cant recover!!!
basically everyone advocating for hit is shilling some machine, dead or dyel and dysgenic kek
Basically every actual athlete is trained with 2 sets of any given number of reps and a set to failure for each lift once a week.
wut? sounds like you never played sports kek for lacrosse and hockey we didn't do your dyel routine
>lacrosse and hockey
Kek. I'm talking about football. Not rollerblading and larping as an Indian.
I was an athlete. We worked hard for a few hours to be able to endure hard work for a few hours. We did not also lift for a few hours straight in effort to increase our force production over the span of seconds, because that would be fricking stupid.
Neither of those things are true you disingenuous lil b***h
Tom Brady did HIT in his early days before getting coached by midwit popular coaches in the nfl
>Tom Brady did HIT in his early day
is that why he's alway been dyel?
Imagine being high IQ like Mike and live amongst subhumans of IST. Every day is suffering from start to finish. Now i understand why he started smoking meth.
pic related
Imagine just walking into a gym one day and saying "well that's fricking wrong", walking right out, making your own machines, getting rich as frick, and then getting jacked.
>Imagine just walking into a gym one day and saying "well that's fricking wrong", walking right out,
I don't have to imagine it, I live it.
Is there a way to merge 3x/week full body workouts with Mentzer's intensity methodologies without quickly overtraining?
I use some HIT / DoggCrap techniques in my full body 3x per week routine. I pick one or two compound lifts per week to use those methods and rotate them when I feel like I've hit a wall. Doing this with chest supported rows really blew up my upper back.
>full body 3x per week routine
too much. do full body once a week
Yes just train twice a week.
Also 7 days is a false dichotomy just take appropriate rest between sessions which is 3 or 4 days for me maybe 5
being that dysgenic you need five days to recover glad i'm not you bro
better dysgenic than a piece of shit who will die alone because some people can't recover at same rate as u
there's not but positives in HIT if you're not an enthusiastic novice or someone whose personality revolves around lifting:
>more free time (lifting is genuinely a chore)
>joints and tendons are doing much better than on volume routines
>gains are comparable to high volume routines
>more energy to do something actually beneficial to health like low impact cardio or playing with your kids
no one in their right minds gives a shit about this bullshit colorado experiment or mentzer being on gear as a professional BBer, this training method definitely works, doesn't induce unnecessary damage and consume very little time
I honestly don't understand all the backlash, why would you outright reject such a life-friendly training method?
post proof then ie body you won't tho cause its only a dyel noobie trap
what would it prove?
I look juicy:
>hurr, it's a stolen pic
>you're on gear, doesn't count
>ur a manlet
I look decent, not spectacular
>lmao 3 months of casual lifting
>just eat nothing and do a couple of pushups
I look average:
>lmao dyel
It's an idiot-proof way to win a discussion (in your head).
post body with timestamp then you win if its aesthetic but you won't because you are dyel its why you never will kek
FWIW, Mentzer blew up his heart at age 49, following Mentzer's advice.
https://youtube.com/shorts/Zd3FK07muOA?si=aFYb2fUQTSdULcLQ
>Eddie Hall
>worlds strongest man
>claims nobody has ever rested as much as he does
>claims to rest 10 days between workouts
>claims he takes a 15 minute rest between each set
>Do heavy deadlift, rest for 10 days, do heavy bench press, rest for 10 days, etc
>HAS A LITERAL HYPERBOLIC TIME CHAMBER HE SPENDS AN ENTIRE DAY RESTING INSIDE BETWEEN EACH WORKOUT
>Says mike mentzer was right, but he didn't rest enough
>Completely natty, competed in strongman which is frequently tested
>Bigger than mike mentzer ever was, just not as aesthetic (body builders use steroids to achieve impossibly low body fat for their competitions)
HAVE YOU TAKEN THE REST PILL YET?
to rest 10 days between workouts
d-dysgenic
>Says mike mentzer was right, but he didn't rest enough
Uhh, based?
>believing Eddie Hall's trolling
NGMI
>train hard
>rest hard
why does this piss off half of IST
It's literally because half of them are on steroids and they're stuck with the belief that if you don't workout 4 hours a day EVERY DAY then you will see no gains or worse your gains will fade away
You might rightfully ask yourself "Where did they get this idea?", and the answer is they got it from each other, one gym bro to another, "it's just how I feel" and "I look better than you so I know what I'm talking about"
That's literally all it is, pride, roid rage, and an unearned ego
These people push themselves to a point where their workout has become cardio and they're actually burning muscle to continue
Go into the gym, do your workout, and get out, that's all it takes
If you're spending more than an hour exercising what you are doing is called Cardio
Train with the volume you need to make gains. If you are doing a lot of volume and you aren't getting stronger, you aren't getting bigger either. You aren't recovering and you aren't making gains.
If you are training very little and aren't getting stronger, then you either need to train with more intensity or do more volume.
Find the right amount of intensity and volume that allows you to stress your muscles to grow but also allows your body to recover. It's a balancing act.
As an experienced lifter, I don't feel like spending two hours at the gym, so I prefer to do fewer sets with more intensity.
High intensity good.
Low frequency bad.
Simple as.
nooooo my fellow hitsisters told me that you can't possibly do high intensity and high volume!!
You can if you're a beginner or roid user.
>has the cake
>eats it too
Can somebody redpill me on HIT, my understanding is that you value intensity over volume for strength gains (obviously true) but achieve that by doing 1-2 slow, concentrated sets of 6-12 reps (wtf).
A 5-3-1 program seems to do the exact same thing but in a less moronic way, am I missing something here.
Also
>235 replies 88 posters
You do 1 set because muscular development is about what you can do in one set. You do a few sets before it to warm up, hype up, psyche up because it makes you able to do that set harder and how hard you do that set is how hard you'll make gains.
531 is the exact same thing in the exact same way.
Is HIT really just light->heavy pyramid training with some weird cult around it.
>You do 1 set
>You do a few sets before it to warm up
So you’re not doing just 1 set per exercise, because why aren’t you counting your warm up sets as sets lmao
It's a warmup and a set to failure with a weird cult around it. What about this is unclear?
only dyels make a million warmup sets lel, normally just one with 50% of your working weight for a couple of reps should be enough and you don't have to do any if you're warmed up enough by other means, it's NOT a pyramid training you coping fricks
Yates did 3 or 4 warmup sets for big compounds
It's more of an anti-cult. People are just realizing how much bullshit they've been sold on over the years.
I basically go to near-failure in the first set depending on the lift or exercise. It doesn't seem right to call it a proper warmup tbh.
The controversy goes around what causes muscle growth. Some people say it's muscle damage that stimulates growth while recent studies are saying that only after muscle damage recovers that hipertrophy happens.
If it's not muscle damage, then what does signal to the brain to grow muscle? What some believe today is that weight progression is the signal. You need to increase load every training, and use strategies to experience heavier loads every training.
post body to prove that then
>trust le heckin science
Noob here and after reading this entire fricking thread I still have no clue whether its good or bad kek
its a noobie trap wonder why only one dude has posted body and he got it through volume style training and the rest of the metzBlack folk never post body? i'm pretty certain they are all trannies from discord running a pysops to keep you from getting gains
why was Mentzer so assmad that Arnold was on coke during Mr Olympia?
everybody on stage is on 50 different illegal drugs but he draws the line at cocaine?
>i'll show him who the real schitzo is by quoting 12 different people
>12 different people
Anyone with at least room temp IQ pattern recognition can see it's all the same person (you)
Almost 1/5 of the posts in a 250 post thread literally all by one schizo, and watch him recoil as he is found out
>reddit spacing
>still no body posted
atleast he isn't dyel like (you)
>he
>still no body
kek if you don't like getting picked on just post body i'm sure you aren't dyel right? :^)
Hey guy hows you HIT progress going?
Been doing a volume routine but feeling kinda small weak so I did two weeks of hit and I look like this now
all me btw
how if its all me?
did all the hitsisters abandoned thread back to their discord?