>press wide, elbows flared out
>shoulder pain
>press closer to the body, elbows tucked in
>no chest pump, front delts sore next day
How exactly do I fix this? I can't seem to find a middle ground so it's either a front delt press or I gotta deal with shoulder pain which was the reason I dropped barbell and smith machine benching to begin with.
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Start pressing with your breasts. Find the muscle mind connection.
Mind muscle connection is a meme, you can't start hip thrusting with your forearms just because you try to pull some mind control shit with your muscles
What?
I like db presses and chest machines never felt right with the exception of a single one that I tried outside of my gym
Not really, they're pretty strong
Absolutely
>Absolutely
any examples to back up that claim? cardiobunnies with huge asses/hamstrings and skinny upperbodies dont count
Obviously not lol. Check out @buffcheeks on IG for example.
Don't like flying motions.
>I don't like lifting
Then stop israelite.
>Mind muscle connection is a meme, you can't start hip thrusting with your forearms
You're fricking moronic, stop posting.
Post physique you mentally deranged moron
I'm a bigger lifter than you, I doubt you have the right to say that anon :0
My physique is nothing to write home about but if you want that appeal to authority then go listen to Arnold talk about mind muscle connection. Obviously you're not going to do hip thrusts with your firearms you fricking moron, because there's no way for that movement to work your forearms. But if you're doing an exercise which is supposed to work your muscle and it isn't then you should focus on contracting that muscle.
Arnold didn't know better because his ressources of knowledge were limited back then, you're doing the equivalent of saying "WELL THE GREATEST DOCTOR OF THE 14TH CENTURY WHO'S CURSED THE MOST PEOPLE IN WORLD HISTORY USED COCAINE FOR HIS PATIENTS, SO WHAT NOW HUH??" which is an utterly horrible argument. Your CNS is VERY smart and will recruit the muscles most fit for the job, so you should be focusing on exercise selection and execution in a way that'll advantage the muscles you want to train most.
You know what? Sure, what ever you say. I honestly don't care, I hope you never get the chest activation you're looking for.
>moron
is right.
Argue why or post physique.
If you actively focus on a muscle group you are able to recruit more muscle fibre than if you don't. You can actually feel the difference by the pump you get. It's a lot more pronounced for certain lifts than others, lat pulldowns, db curls and flyes for example. Something like deadlifts it will be less obvious as that's a compound movement and uses a lot of different muscle groups. Obviously you still need to focus on proper form which becomes second nature after a while.
>Your CNS is VERY smart and will recruit the muscles most fit for the job.
Exactly the problem, countered your own argument really. For example lat pulldowns it's easy to use a lot of arms where you should be focusing on stretching and contracting the lats. Flyes it's easy to just move the dumbells from A to B to A where you should be focusing on getting a good stretch at the bottom of the lift. DB curls you should be isolating from the elbow and also squeeze the bicep at the top of the lift.
There are times to ignore this, cheat curls etc. but those have a specific place and shouldn't be the bulk of your routine.
>If you actively focus on a muscle group you are able to recruit more muscle fibre than if you don't.
Source motherfricker. Internal cues that lead to external improvement of form don't count.
>lat pulldowns it's easy to use a lot of arms
Yeah your arms are definitely not strong enough to curl your bodyweight multiple times, let alone grow from that. EMG activation and studies looking at arm growth after solely doing compounds prove this.
>feel the difference
Feelings, pumps and soreness aren't correlated with growth
>Yeah your arms are definitely not strong enough to curl your bodyweight multiple times, let alone grow from that
Yea but your lats grow less if you are using more arms instead of focusing on lats
>Feelings, pumps and soreness aren't correlated with growth
Source motherfricker
>If you actively focus on a muscle group you are able to recruit more muscle fibre than if you don't.
Source motherfricker.
Its common sense you absolute fricking moron. If you curl and use your whole body to swing the weight you will get less bicep activation than if you focus on curling and contracting your bicep.
>lats grow less if you are using more arms
No they don't if they're the prime mover and limiting muscle group. Both of these solely depend on exercise selection and execution.
>source for feelings, pumps and soreness not being correlated with muscle growth
Here is one of many many studies:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21270317/
Also "Muscle damage does lead to hypertrophy but it’s only part of the puzzle, as hypertrophy can still occur without it, via mechanisms one and two – mechanical tension and metabolic stress. (Schoenfeld B. 2010)."
and additionally, marathon runners get sore as frick but that doesn't grow their legs. Mechanical tension and progressive overload builds muscle, not pumps you absolute moron.
>curling with shit technique vs good technique
Congratulations, you proved my point. That's not focusing on mind muscle connection, that's proper exercise execution you brain amputee ass motherfricker.
>No they don't if they're the prime mover and limiting muscle group.
Of course they grow less if your using your arms to move the weight are you actually thick?
Your source is about muscle soreness. What I was arguing about was mind muscle connection.
Source
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28500415/
Pump is an indicator that your using the right muscle.
Marathon runners have a lot of slow twitch muscle fibre they don't train for size moron.
>just deal with the pain
ISHYGDDT
stop doing them.
use the chest press machine instead
I escaped the shoulder pain by doing flat bench-press with dumbbells', it becomes dangerous past certain numbers (for my dyel-self, anything past 35kg for each dumbbell is dangerous) even if I you to BP much more using the barbell. You just have to do more reps
also avoid elbow flare by lifting slower and don't lock your arms
Your delts are probably lagging behind in strength, build them up so that they aren't the weak link anymore and you can db press enough to get a chest pump.
Can women build some muscle while still staying feminine?
Cheating flys
It's a little hard to give you minutiae form advice through text. Why can't you just angle your elbows in-between the wide with shoulder pain & the close with no chest pump?
Anyways try this: go almost as wide as what irritates your shoulders, but also hold the dumbbells with a hammer grip instead of pronating. That's it. Give that a go. See how you do.
First retract your scapulae and basically put the pressure on your traps.
From there try pressing with a neutral grip at the bottom, slowly rotating into an overhand grip at the top.
Strengthen your rotator cuff/rear delts/lower and mid traps/rhomboids so that you can press with more flared elbows without any pain. Also do dead hangs and shoulder dislocations, ideally every day if you can but if you can't just do them whenever you're able to.
Also consider using a semi-pronated/neutral grip on the dumbbells so that you can go deeper and get a better stretch on the pecs (consider pausing at the bottom as well, that helps too), it might sound counter intuitive but I find that because you're forced to reduce the weight a lot the stress on the shoulder actually goes down. Maybe give that a shot
Will look into the upper block already doing the lower one
>are you actually thick?
Yeah, my glutes have been growing like crazy, thanks for asking.
>What I was arguing about was mind muscle connection.
You weren't because you said, and I'm directly quoting here, ">Feelings, pumps and soreness aren't correlated with growth
Source motherfricker" lmao.
>mind muscle connection made pec activation slightly higher
Oh wow, it's almost like telling people to use their chest more automatically will make them change their exercise execution, slow down the eccentric, go lower, pause, and squeeze at the top! Who would've thought??? Dumbass. Every example you give is an example proving my point about exercise execution.
>Pump is an indicator that your using the right muscle
Sometimes, some of the muscles that grow best don't get sore at all.
>marathon runners don't have fast twitch fibers
People heavily overestimate this and don't realize how dynamic and quickly this can change.
>don't train for size
Oh, so you so understand there's a difference. Almost like there's a very specific training principle regarding mechanical tension and not soreness or a pump, both things you can experience without ever having done hypertrophy training.
>Feelings, pumps
i.e. mind muscle connection. Still waiting on source.
>mind muscle connection made pec activation slightly higher
its not proving your point its proving the importance of mind muscle connection. read the fricking paper
>some of the muscles that grow best don't get sore at all.
never said they didnt
I didnt say they dont have fast twitch fibres. They dont train for size moron they train for endurance.
>Almost like there's a very specific training principle
yea mind muscle connection
My brother in Christ, mind muscle connection is just feeling a muscle, it does not change anything about the muscle you're using. The single source you have about mind muscle connection being of ANY importance is telling people to focus on the muscle which in all likelihood just led to them focusing more on their technique. You have absolutely no credible source that mind muscle connection matters in any way, you're doing the equivalent of someone saying "loud music is the cause behind muscle growth because this one study found a correlation in loud music and muscle gain!" without realizing that the loud music only indirectly had an effect on it and the same thing could be replicated without the music as well.