Not really. There is diminishing returns limit but natty limit is way way WAY higher than what people believe. I could write a book about it so Im not sure how to summarize my thoughts exactly. But for example I looked worse after my 7th year of lifting than I did after my 2nd. It is absurdly difficult for a normal person to lift for 10+ years straight with only progressive overload and growth. Life happens, injuries happens, your goals change. There's so many little variables why your progress stalls or even goes backwards and its not because you were close to your natty limit. Again, limit for diminishing returns exists for sure and thats the problem. Once you hit your diminishing returns, little micro injuries and setbacks can basically make you spin your wheels indefinitely. Endless cycle of cutting and bulking will result you staying stagnant. You might need to lean bulk for 2-3 years, then cut for 3 months. Not bulk for half a year, then cut for half a year.
I unironically used to think that 3pl8 with abs is not possible naturally because everyone is so blackpilled. I was stuck at 2pl8 for 6 years. Then I just decided that no its not impossible and everyone is just a fricking loser. So I started following an actual bench program and ended up benching 3pl8 for 5 reps @ 75kg bw with abs. There really is no limit other than time. Time is the soft cap for natural limit. Im a fricking 30 year old boomer now. I'd hope to have a wife and kids sometime. Then thats gonna be my life. Work and family into my 40's are going to take my time from lifting. I might only have time to lift 1-2x a week or do a shitty routine. I might not have interest to push harder either. Then when Im in my 40's I m gonna start fighting against biology and mother nature. Even if I still can make gains its gonna be diminished by dropping test levels and health.
>biking is bad for you
Had a PE teacher in school who would say this over and over; how it completely is terrible and running is the only true form of cardio and that biking actually works out all the wrong muscles.
>girls love a bit of chub
I used to read forum posts about this and convince myself I was fine being a bit heavier but stronger, but after getting lean and seeing my abs and face definition for the first time (and getting more compliments about my now more visible muscles) I'm never going back, thats not even mentioning how much better and overall more fit and agile I feel
>starvation mode >3 meals a day >animal fat is bad for you >partially hydrogenated fats are good for you and cancel out the "bad" fat >supercharged metabolism after cardi, eat anything >eating before sleeping makes you fat >muh genetics >what's a calorie? >pic related
Pic related is a very good physique and you still mog 99% of the population, and it doesn't require tons of calories to maintain
Being a big meathead isn't worth it, imo
I want to live a wholesome life, not of a suffering one of a muh warrior guts
Based Paul Newman. Had a good physique and is definitely a physique 99% of women find very attractive. This is what they consider strong and healthy. Not your roided up fake natties.
>working out through injuries is the best long term plan for health and gains >women prefer bearmode with 2pl8 bench to ottermode with 1pl8 bench >you need to visit dr. shekelberg every time you get a serious injury >dr. shekelberg is a kind and benevolent ally who has your medical interest as his first priority >there are 1 size fits all routines and diets and you don't need to use your gains and bodily feelings as feedback to get the most out of them >the bigger the guy lifts the meaner and more judgmental he is >the most aesthetic look is having a huge squat and T rex legs and not just being skinny and having abs >looking good naked is 100% of physical attraction >girls will make the first move >girls will stop acting like girls >girls will grow up >intense male friendship is not the most important factor in the maturation of a young man
yeah
Fat frick shut the frick up. I can see your breasts and belly rolls from here homosexual. YOU WILL NOT POST BODY. You look like ass and stop encouraging people to also look like ass.
No I'm not sub 10% either. I'm 15% and I look like ass. So that's how I know you look like ass. Stfu.
POST BODY. I could be 500% bodyfat. It doesn't change the fact that you're also fat as frick. This is how I know you're full of dogshit >15% is good enough. No I won't post body. My body isn not good enough.
If your body was something worth presenting you wouldn't hide behind false equivalents and deflection tactics. Once again. POST BODY OR STFU
15% does indeed look fat. If that is an acceptable stopping point for you, then you must really either be gaslighting yourself, lost motivation to keep going, or have low standards.
I used to believe people on IST actually exercised.
Now I realise no one does.
I used to think people who exercise were actually "normal" people.
Now I realize they might actually be the most mentally ill
not only that, but everyone here is a nonwhite manlet too
Gay
Low body fat and no muscle IS bad for you. Being strong fat isn’t that bad for you. Basically just acquire muscle
Cope
Being skinny and athletic is better than being fat and strong
Also cope
Both have advantages based completely on the scenario/context
Okay but lean and muscular is objectively better than any other body type
Anyone who disagrees with me is coping dangerously hard
>Okay but lean and muscular is objectively better than any other body type
Objectively better how? Aesthetically? In the gym? Health-wise? What?
Keep coping bud
Imagine how much better your life would be if you looked in the mirror and saw this
If only you could put the fork down
>Simply lifts you over my shoulder, mogging you in front of everyone
It's really nothing personnel
Bench tiddies really ruin an otherwise wonderful physique.
>If only you could put the fork down
you need to eat a decent amount to build and maintain that amount of muscle anon....
I can tell you don't actually work out. You probably have this delusion that you look like that with the right lighting or something. You don't.
Thats not the body type anyone was imagining when the words "skinny and athletic" were typed.
>better
What do you mean by "better"? What's your metric?
Not him but performance and aesthetics.
>Low body fat and no muscle IS bad for you
how is it worse than low body fat and some muscle?
>Being strong fat isn’t that bad for you.
Enjoy your CPAP.
>You can't get jacked on calisthenics
>You don't need to train abs directly, compounds are enough
>There's a natty limit
's a natty limit
There isn't one?
Not really. There is diminishing returns limit but natty limit is way way WAY higher than what people believe. I could write a book about it so Im not sure how to summarize my thoughts exactly. But for example I looked worse after my 7th year of lifting than I did after my 2nd. It is absurdly difficult for a normal person to lift for 10+ years straight with only progressive overload and growth. Life happens, injuries happens, your goals change. There's so many little variables why your progress stalls or even goes backwards and its not because you were close to your natty limit. Again, limit for diminishing returns exists for sure and thats the problem. Once you hit your diminishing returns, little micro injuries and setbacks can basically make you spin your wheels indefinitely. Endless cycle of cutting and bulking will result you staying stagnant. You might need to lean bulk for 2-3 years, then cut for 3 months. Not bulk for half a year, then cut for half a year.
I unironically used to think that 3pl8 with abs is not possible naturally because everyone is so blackpilled. I was stuck at 2pl8 for 6 years. Then I just decided that no its not impossible and everyone is just a fricking loser. So I started following an actual bench program and ended up benching 3pl8 for 5 reps @ 75kg bw with abs. There really is no limit other than time. Time is the soft cap for natural limit. Im a fricking 30 year old boomer now. I'd hope to have a wife and kids sometime. Then thats gonna be my life. Work and family into my 40's are going to take my time from lifting. I might only have time to lift 1-2x a week or do a shitty routine. I might not have interest to push harder either. Then when Im in my 40's I m gonna start fighting against biology and mother nature. Even if I still can make gains its gonna be diminished by dropping test levels and health.
>biking is bad for you
Had a PE teacher in school who would say this over and over; how it completely is terrible and running is the only true form of cardio and that biking actually works out all the wrong muscles.
Enjoy impotence.
>women don't actually like big muscles you know
They do. It turns out they like them a lot and I wasted years
>girls love a bit of chub
I used to read forum posts about this and convince myself I was fine being a bit heavier but stronger, but after getting lean and seeing my abs and face definition for the first time (and getting more compliments about my now more visible muscles) I'm never going back, thats not even mentioning how much better and overall more fit and agile I feel
1/2/3/4 is the bare minimum of being fit.
>starvation mode
>3 meals a day
>animal fat is bad for you
>partially hydrogenated fats are good for you and cancel out the "bad" fat
>supercharged metabolism after cardi, eat anything
>eating before sleeping makes you fat
>muh genetics
>what's a calorie?
>pic related
Pic related is a very good physique and you still mog 99% of the population, and it doesn't require tons of calories to maintain
Being a big meathead isn't worth it, imo
I want to live a wholesome life, not of a suffering one of a muh warrior guts
Based Paul Newman. Had a good physique and is definitely a physique 99% of women find very attractive. This is what they consider strong and healthy. Not your roided up fake natties.
>working out through injuries is the best long term plan for health and gains
>women prefer bearmode with 2pl8 bench to ottermode with 1pl8 bench
>you need to visit dr. shekelberg every time you get a serious injury
>dr. shekelberg is a kind and benevolent ally who has your medical interest as his first priority
>there are 1 size fits all routines and diets and you don't need to use your gains and bodily feelings as feedback to get the most out of them
>the bigger the guy lifts the meaner and more judgmental he is
>the most aesthetic look is having a huge squat and T rex legs and not just being skinny and having abs
>looking good naked is 100% of physical attraction
>girls will make the first move
>girls will stop acting like girls
>girls will grow up
>intense male friendship is not the most important factor in the maturation of a young man
yeah
sub 10% body fat is actually bad for you unless you're a genetic freak, you'll feel like shit all the time and your libido will be shit.
for 99% of people 10-15% body fat is where they'll perform and feel best, it's still pretty fricking lean.
Normal people can't reach sub 10% without anorexia or PEDs.
Fat frick shut the frick up. I can see your breasts and belly rolls from here homosexual. YOU WILL NOT POST BODY. You look like ass and stop encouraging people to also look like ass.
No I'm not sub 10% either. I'm 15% and I look like ass. So that's how I know you look like ass. Stfu.
> I'm 15% and I look like ass.
Have you tried getting muscles?
Post body. Any homosexual who says 15% is good enough is a fat homosexual. POST IT. I FRICKING DARE YOU
and people who say that 15% is ugly are usually 30%+ or dyel skinnyfats
POST BODY. I could be 500% bodyfat. It doesn't change the fact that you're also fat as frick. This is how I know you're full of dogshit
>15% is good enough. No I won't post body. My body isn not good enough.
If your body was something worth presenting you wouldn't hide behind false equivalents and deflection tactics. Once again. POST BODY OR STFU
15% bodyfat is fat as frick
please be quiet
"15%"(actually 20%+) is fat as frick, 15% is neat.
15% does indeed look fat. If that is an acceptable stopping point for you, then you must really either be gaslighting yourself, lost motivation to keep going, or have low standards.
15% looks pretty bloated. I mean it’s better than most but at 15% you’re just starting to get lean.
>vegetables are good for you
>you need fiber for a healthy colon