>Some carnivores, called obligate carnivores, depend only on meat for survival. Their bodies cannot digest plants properly. Plants do not provide enough nutrients for obligate carnivores. All cats, from small house cats to huge tigers, are obligate carnivores. Most carnivores are not obligate carnivores.
Humans can cleaely tolerate a range of plants, especially fruits, extremely well.
> Plants do not provide enough nutrients for obligate carnivores.
Both of these are correct with humans. > All cats, from small house cats to huge tigers, are obligate carnivores.
Yes, but we also put grains, starches and vegetables in cat food, and they digest it perfectly fine. They may even extract some nutrients, but are they thriving? > fruits
Fruits can be part of an optimal, meat-based diet. They help you get your electrolytes. There’s a bit of infighting on whether or not to include fruit and honey in a carnivore diet, so the jury’s still out. If you feel like eating fruit, eat fruit.
Neither. Human beings can’t get all their nutritional requirements from plants. If you are on a vegan diet you have to carefully plan or you will become deficient in something or maybe even get sick and die. In the wild a vegan diet would be virtually impossible.
Also we can’t digest plants because our stomachs are incapable of breaking down cellulose like herbivores do, so our body just pushes all the fiber out undigested.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I didnt read past the first sentence because again you missed the point entireltt
1 year ago
Anonymous
>he didn’t read what I said about house cats
>fruit >animal-based
No.
>he doesn’t know what “-based” means
1 year ago
Anonymous
>
1 year ago
Anonymous
You are using a strawman please assess the actual argument thanks
1 year ago
Anonymous
It’s not a strawman. Cats and dogs are obligate carnivores and we feed them kibble with corn, grain and vegetables and the digest it just fine. Are they eating the optimal diet though? Are they thriving? Well, the average life expectancy of a golden retriever is down 8 years in the last half century, so I’d say no. Also indoor cats struggle a lot with obesity which would be an absurd concept in the wild with cats being one of the most lean and athletic animals. So I’d say no, they are not thriving. Do human beings thrive on a vegan diet? You try it and tell me.
1 year ago
Anonymous
You are using a strawman please assess the actual argument thanks
Again, please avoid strawman arguments
1 year ago
Anonymous
I don’t see how that’s a strawman argument. Perhaps reiterate your original comment.
The point is that we domesticated obligate carnivores and started feeding them the same diet we feed ourselves, now they get all the same diseases we get. How many wolves do you think suffer from arthritis and hip dysplasia? Ever seen a morbidly obese panther?
Call it a strawman, I call it common sense.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Go back to the first post and follow through and you will see where you inserted a false premise
1 year ago
Anonymous
So you are saying human beings are carnivores but not obligate carnivores?
1 year ago
Anonymous
So you are saying human beings are carnivores but not obligate carnivores?
I’ll agree that our molars and side-to-side jaw movement suggests that we should be eating *some* plants, but perhaps we evolved that way so that we could survive dire situations where we couldn’t get a kill for weeks at a time. Perhaps we evolved to be able to digest plants in lieu of claws, horns or giant fangs.
What would be fallacious though, would be to say we are meant to eat plants regularly, because our bodies can’t convert plant material into vital nutrients, and plants largely can’t support our relatively high caloric needs (because of our big brains)
1 year ago
Anonymous
So you are saying human beings are carnivores but not obligate carnivores?
I'm saying you inserted the false argument that humans should be vegan at the top of the argument. Zero people said that. You assumed that since people suggest that humans should eat plants that this means vegan. It doesnt. Humans are omnivores. Anyone who suggests otherwise is being taken for a ride by grifters and doesn't know basic physiology, which is you I'm Assuming since you immediately strawmanned at the slightest hint of objection to your fallacious claim
1 year ago
Anonymous
I just think if you take a concept to its logical extreme it says a lot about said topic on a micro level: >strictly carnivore
Many powerful empires and smaller tribes subsist on a carnivore diet. Eating meat has contributed to growth in human height and the human brain >strictly vegan
Macronutrient deficiency and/or certain death.
What does that tell us about eating plants?
1 year ago
Anonymous
>I just think if you take a concept to its logical extreme it says a lot about said topic on a micro level:
I dont care it's irrelevant to the conversation and its a blatant strawman. It doesn't follow that someone objecting to "we should only eat meat" believes the opposite. The rest of your post is appea to authority and appeal to history strawmen. Have a good day.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Instead of disproving my point you’re just going >HURRR YOURE NOT ARGUING THE CORRECT WAY I WIN
1 year ago
Anonymous
Ok bud
1 year ago
Anonymous
He accepts your concession
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Human beings can’t get all their nutritional requirements from plants.
Correct, I agree, hence why we are omnivores
1 year ago
Anonymous
there's nothing in plants you can't get from meat
1 year ago
Anonymous
There's nothing in meat you can't get from eating pills. Why even eat food? Just supplement it all with pills.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Human beings can’t get all their nutritional requirements from plants.
Whats the evidence for that >f you are on a vegan diet you have to carefully plan
So you are just debunking your previous statement and saying vegans can get all nutritional requirements from plants and all they have to do is.... to plan it lmao >maybe even get sick and die
Where's the evidence that vegans get sick and die in comparison to the rest of the population? >you will become deficient
In what? Vegans can get all essential nutrients from plants >In the wild a vegan diet would be virtually impossible.
What's the evidence for that? Me talking to moron like you wouldn't be possible either cause there's no internet in the wild, also this is a nature fallacy >Also we can’t digest plants because our stomachs
What "plants", where's the evidence? > because our stomachs are incapable of breaking down cellulose like herbivores do,
Most herbivores cannot break down cellulose either, are you moronic >so our body just pushes all the fiber out undigested.
Fiber is a sign of having a quality diet
tldr: you are a fricking moron
1 year ago
Anonymous
>carefully plan
that usually means supplements. stop being a gay
1 year ago
Anonymous
>
Vegan diets are gaining popularity, also in families with young children. However, the effects of strict plant-based diets on metabolism and micronutrient status of children are unknown. We recruited 40 Finnish children with a median age 3.5 years-vegans, vegetarians, or omnivores from same daycare centers-for a cross-sectional study. They enjoyed nutritionist-planned vegan or omnivore meals in daycare, and the full diets were analyzed with questionnaires and food records. Detailed analysis of serum metabolomics and biomarkers indicated vitamin A insufficiency and border-line sufficient vitamin D in all vegan participants. Their serum total, HDL and LDL cholesterol, essential amino acid, and docosahexaenoic n-3 fatty acid (DHA) levels were markedly low and primary bile acid biosynthesis, and phospholipid balance was distinct from omnivores. Possible combination of low vitamin A and DHA status raise concern for their visual health. Our evidence indicates that (i) vitamin A and D status of vegan children requires special attention; (ii) dietary recommendations for children cannot be extrapolated from adult vegan studies; and (iii) longitudinal studies on infant-onset vegan diets are warranted.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33471422/
The fact that we can eat goyfeed without immediately dying doesn't mean we are omnivores. Keep on developing illnesses, goy, ~~*they*~~ will promptly provide you with pills to withstand these "inscrutable" ailments, just keep munching on that shit.
Been eating raw liver and undercooked beef every day for a year, raw eggs for 6 months, and plenty of raw milk kefir too. Still no salmonella. When's that supposed to kick in?
That's pretty doable at 50kyr bro, if you wanted to be super frugal look up one of the butcher channels on youtube or tiktok and you can save a lot of money cutting and freezing the meat yourself
>vegans tell me that i'm going to die of a heart attack from eating red meat and eggs >carnivores tell me that i'm going to die of a heart attack from eating fruits and vegetables
Solution: eat meat and fruit.
Or really, just eat healthy meals and take note on which combinations give you the best results. For me, a diet of mostly meat and fruits is enough to get my gains train chugging ahead of schedule.
>a 14 oz can of salmon is $2.50
Bottom of the barrel, farmed salmon is literally poison, argueably worse than fast food, just in different ways. They swim in and eat their own shit for their entire lives, the pellets they get feed are garbage and they are fed more antibiotics and steroids than actual food. Don't get me started on the additives and food coloring.
If you're going to eat salmon and want it to be healthy, wild caught is your only option. Yes, it's relatively expensive. Suck it up or eat cheaper healthy foods.
I don't do meme diets anymore, so I just eat a range of real whole foods and am fine with it.
I still put down about 1.5 lbs. of meat per day, but frick eating carniketogay for every meal, that shit's lame and hinders gains, so no thanks.
But, if I HAD to do a meme diet, I'd probably pick carnivore as the least moronic one to join the cult of. NOTHING was worse than my decade as a vegan, that shit was just awful.
The truth is that carnivore will give you a superior body but a shorter life. Over consumption of protein (>75g/day for humans) is directly related to rapid aging jn twin mice studies. The Maasai have the lowest life expectancy in the whole world but are the tallest in Africa
Are there studies that state that the omnivore tribes are actually consuming less g of protein a day compared to the Maasai? I imagine that both tribes have to ration their food
Yes, the maasai consume only beef, milk and blood, averaging 126 grams of protein a day and life to just 45 on average but stand 6’3/190cm on average. The Kikuyu, who also live in kenya consume maize, beans, yams, peas, etc in addition to goat, chicken, etc averaging 73 grams of protein a day and live to 63 on average but stand just 5’7/170cm on average.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Idk maybe they’re missing out on nutrients. I’ve been sticking to the same diet for months and my blood work is great and my body fat % is dropping. I eat to have enough energy even in a deficit. Some days I probably get close to 200 g
1 year ago
Anonymous
Like I said, a carnivore diet is superior for body building but not longevity. You’re trading one for the other. Caloric deficit of 30% and low protein consumption have been shown to greatly increase life spans in mice and antecedently in humans who survive famines. It’s best to manipulate these to your advantage when building your body or raising your child but when you reach the maintenance phase, you should drop the protein. In terms of longest livers on the planet, italy and switzerland top that list with diets heavy in carbs and low in protein
1 year ago
Anonymous
>You’re trading one for the other. Caloric deficit of 30% and low protein consumption have been shown to greatly increase life spans in mice
We are not mice. >and antecedently in humans who survive famines
Likely as many anecdotes of people who didn't have a caloric deficit and lived to 90+ years old.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>we are not mice
No, but we are close enough for the findings to be likely true in humans. Human studies take a lot longer, a life time really >Likely as many …
No, you’re misunderstanding, those who survived famines live longer on average. This was first discovered after the great finnish famine of 1868
1 year ago
Anonymous
>No, but we are close enough
We're not that close. This is why chimp testing is often used after mice trials and then later human trials for most things. Things often work in mice and not in humans, vice versa. For example, Mice have a large functioning cecum whereas human beings only have a vestigial cecal appendage. Mice also have a stomach divided into two regions, a fore-stomach and a glandular region, whereas a human's stomach is entirely glandular. This is of course ignore other features that further distinguish humans and mice. So it is likely the case that being designed more for a fibrous diet (hence the cecum and the caecotrophy as part of regular digestion of mice) so it is very much the case that a mouse would have problems with a higher protein diet as the protein may interrupt the functions within the cecum whereas it's supposed to eat the caecotrope for the needed protein. Whereas human beings are designed to process more protein rich foods, especially meats, in which case a person has a much high threshold for how much protein he or she can intake and needs to actively seek out protein sources to get the needed protein since a human being cannot produce much of what they need themselves. >the findings to be likely true in humans
No
1 year ago
Anonymous
I didnt bother reading all that, mice are close enough to humans for testing to be accurate within a degree or two, this isnt up for debate
>No, you’re misunderstanding, those who survived famines live longer on average. This was first discovered after the great finnish famine of 1868
In other words "those who survived famines lived longer than those who didn't." Lol.
No, they compared then to those born a decade before and after
Isn’t famine survival also correlated with decreased development in children? Shorter adult height etc.
Shorter people live longer on average than tall people. Like I said, there is a trade off for everything. Heavy meat and dairy will produce a large human but will shorten the lifespan, it’s why greta thunberg looks like an elementary schooler
1 year ago
Anonymous
Jojen paste is the diet of champions
1 year ago
Anonymous
>this isn't up for debate
He just debated you using really good arguments, you just saying "duuuur noooo" makes you a fricking moron.ed mouthbreather Mice studies are useless for metabolic studies in humans.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Interesting points.
The most known case of carnivorous people are the Eskimos. Afaik the didn't had a short lifespan issue. Perhaps those African tribes had some other factor that you aren't considering?
1 year ago
Anonymous
>I didnt bother reading all that
It's part of an argument as why >mice are close enough to humans for testing to be accurate within a degree or two, this isnt up for debate
is false. It is up to debate and in case of dietary ideas. By refusing to read and address the details of the human v. mouse digestive system you conceded that you are unwilling to account for reality and you're working on nothing but dogmatism. You're just being dishonest then.
A mouse's digestive system is designed to process fibers (inedible and not a source of nutrition for humans) and use them to produce specific proteins and fats in its cecum (the human cecum is vestigial and does not function as a regular part of the digestive system), in an easily digestible form for the mouse that is later expelled then the mice eats its own shit and absorbs the expelled nutrients. Some terms for this process is Caecotrophy or Coprophagy. It's digestive system is designed for this purpose whereas a human being, unless they are mentally ill, will natural avoid eating their own shit and his digestive system designed to more efficient break down food in the first pass.
When you take a mouse off of a protein rich diet and put it back on it's natural diet (vegetables), of course it's going to live longer. However, a human's natural diet has always consisted of larger amounts of meat 50%+ of the diet in most of history, with the rest from forage. A fairly high protein diet.
As for the caloric "deficit" in mice, it is more likely that they were initially overfed prior to coprophagy being account for and then after they were fed, the 30% deficit was removed by the coprophagy and now the mice were not being overfed. So the overfed mice who are not designed to use external sources of protein very well, start to become healthier when they are not overfed and eat a species appropriate diet. The mouse study doesn't tell you anything outside of that.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>No, they compared then to those born a decade before and after
And then you still have all the statistical sampling problems associated with such a comparison. I can therefore safely dismiss it. There is also the presence dozens of unaccounted for variables that need to be ignored in order to believe that the period of famine (though even in famines there are still large groups of people who can get sufficient amounts of food) is the only variable here. So it's lazy and dishonest. It may very well be that the people presdisposed to living shorter lives at the time died during the famine while the genes that would predispose them to shorter lifespans only were more prominent in the next generation. This is also ignore the fact that a large of factors can change over a generation that are difficult to account for in general and most of the time cannot accurately be accounted for. So I can reject this anecdote as evidence of famines increasing lifespan out of hand.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>This is why chimp testing is often used after mice trials and then later human trials for most things.
Chimp testing is banned in most of the western world
1 year ago
Anonymous
>No, you’re misunderstanding, those who survived famines live longer on average. This was first discovered after the great finnish famine of 1868
In other words "those who survived famines lived longer than those who didn't." Lol.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Isn’t famine survival also correlated with decreased development in children? Shorter adult height etc.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Where the frick do people get those moronic stats on longevity? If one person dies at birth and the other at a 100 years old, their average life expectancy is 50 years old. Child mortality, you dumb fricking Black folk. If a maasai person survives their teenage years they live to their 70s, like most people.
Are you the sort of mouthbreather who thinks cavemen died in their 30s? That a 40 year old was ancient and revered for their tenacity? No, dumb frick, all premodern societies have huge child mortality rates that bring down the average. In europe over half the children used to die before the age of 5 just 200 years ago. It's the greatest unspoken trauma our species endured for all its history, in fact.
The maasai also fully circumcise their women, like the moronic Black folk they are. Lots of girls die from complications of that barbaric practice
1 year ago
Anonymous
>The maasai also fully circumcise their women, like the moronic Black folk they are. Lots of girls die from complications of that barbaric practice
It's a good thing no modern country practices circumcising their children.
Athletes from around the world who look better than any carnivoregay eat high carb high protein diets. Literally no one healthy or good looking eats high protein high fat diets. Even body builders realized low carb high protein diets weren’t as good. The whole of it comes down to just having clean carbs
just eat washed white rice, it has zero antinootrients
red meat is good for you but don't discard other things such as eggs and dairy
also super low carb is garbage because you will feel like shit when you exercise
The true redpill is being Peaty. No vegetables and little no grains to avoid antinutrients. Fruit for the phytonutrients and vitamins (doesn't have the defensive chemicals that vegetables have). As much red meat as you want, just balance it with gelatin/broth collagen and occasional organ meats. If you really want to have starches you can have well-cooked root vegetables. Dairy and eggs, literally their purpose is to support and feed young lifeforms and give them strength. Dairy and fruit are made to be eaten as much as vegetables and grains are made not to be eaten.
One time i fricked an ugly vegan chick with a nice butt for around a year and came in her mouth/ass/pussy countless times. I asked her if she was still a vegan if she ate my cum so much, she 'broke up' with me shortly afterwards.
Killing animals is wrong, I do it as little as possible. If you had a conscience you'd do the same. Hunting them out in nature is one thing, factory farming is demonic shit.
Liver still makes me want to gag
Carnivore Aurelius liver chips help, but they only make it easy to take small bites and wash them down with kabob or veggies in butter or something
Going 30 days carnivore as part of an elimination diet. Hoping it helps a bit with my chronic bloating, tendon pain and fatigue related issues. Most likely going to transition to keto after the month is up to compare my general health. Might try a vegan diet after that if I'm not where I want to be by then.
Currently 5 days in. Cravings and energy levels were dogshit the first 3 days but I'm on the upswing since day 4. Haven't shit in like 3 days though so hope that clears up. Generally feel less bloated and inflamed as well.
I don't tolerate dairy well and I think fruits with a lot of citrus cause problems. Right now the plan is to complete my 30 days and then introduce different food groups into a keto diet every 5-10 days. Probably going to go vegetables -> fruits -> honey/other sugars. Really trying to nail this down so I don't have to repeat this process in the future.
Vegetables should be last, they have the most plant toxins and problematic compounds, you're going to wreak havoc on yourself. I think the fixation on having a keto diet specifically will be negative too. Literally you'd probably fare better even with white rice than vegetables.
I might swap fruits and vegetables chronologically, but white rice is for after I've finished experimenting with the keto diet. If what your saying is true and vegetables cause some harm, I should pick up on it by day 10.
if I feel good after 30 days of carnivore, I might stretch it to 60 days and the keto phase to 60 days as well. That'll give me a solid 20 days to recognize if a new food group is causing problems.
Say what you like about Saladino but you can be sure he's not an industry shill, he changed his mind so many fricking times on diet it would be impossible lmao
Animal-based means you get MOST of your calories from animal foods, usually 80%+, so fruit and honey can slot into the remaining flexible portion if you tolerate it and do well on it.
>says carnivore doesn't work >hasn't tried it himself for at least a month in order to prove it
that's the power of the mentally ill corn syrup fueled anti science mind
Not only that, but you also need to be emotionally invested in whatever personality cult surrounds said meme diet so no matter what the results are, you delude yourself into experiencing a positive effect.
I've done a strict carnivore diet in January once for a month, and it was great, and I'm now going back to it, a few weeks later.
As far as the research I've found most people can get away with doing 100% meat but it might be easier for 80/90% meat and the last filled with fruits and veggies.
I've tried finding accounts of people quitting carnivore for good reasons but most were because they made stupid mistakes like not paying attention to actual nutrition, like getting liver every once in a while to round out their vitamins.
Overall, I plan on doing carnivore now again for 3 months straight and see how it feels after that
I feel better, I actively lose weight while eating 2-3 kg of meat a day, and i have more energy.
How the shit do you eat 2-3kgs of meat a day, I'm a month in already, and can barely get 2 x 250g ribeyes down. I decided to go Lion Diet yesterday, so cutting out all eggs and cheese and coffee, we'll see how it goes, but so far I did omad with those steaks plus some eggs and cheese. I might add a third steak now, but I seriously doubt I'll want to eat anything more after that. And I'm not fricking small either, 6'3 265lbs, fat fricking bastard, carb/beer fuelled since fricking corona rugged my sanity. Lost like 20lbs already in a month tho, so happy about that. Maybe that's why I only eat so much? Shitload of fuel on my frame. Not that I'm complaining, mind, I can still go to the gym 3x a week and do some cycling. Back when I was eating carbs there's no way I could do this much, I'd be tired constantly
We got any experienced ketolards around? Preferably ones that went the arc I'm going for, which is to say losing all that disgusting flab asap.
Hard pills to swallow:
- Grains are literally poison, worst possible food you can eat in excess
- American diet is far far far in excess in grain consumption
- Heavily processed food is also literally poison, ie. any fast food or packaged snacks with preservatives and additives
- Green vegetables are amazing for you
- Red meat is amazing for you
- Other meat is amazing for you (chicken, fish, eggs)
- Other vegetables (root veggies, fruit) are fairly neutral, not especially good not especially bad
- The primary benefit of keto / carnivore is not eating grains and not eating processed food, doing more than that is usually overkill
- Reducing/eliminating grains and eating homemade food from fresh ingredients is the optimal diet
It's possible for people's bodies to be abnormally sensitive to anything. If you are someone who is especially sensitive to certain things in food like oxalates in green vegetables then you should tweak your diet to avoid these things. For most people the amount of oxalates in green vegetables won't cause enough harm to outweigh the benefits. For most people, the diet I mentioned will be 95% of the way to their personal optimal diet.
That’s a fair point but I’m still not convinced that we *need* leafy greens in our diet. Meat covers all essential micro and macronutrients. To me it’s not worth the risk of ingesting those plant toxins.
Exactly my point, there is no benefit, and a lot of risk, it makes no sense
[...]
I'm saying you inserted the false argument that humans should be vegan at the top of the argument. Zero people said that. You assumed that since people suggest that humans should eat plants that this means vegan. It doesnt. Humans are omnivores. Anyone who suggests otherwise is being taken for a ride by grifters and doesn't know basic physiology, which is you I'm Assuming since you immediately strawmanned at the slightest hint of objection to your fallacious claim
I'm afraid that's incorrect, humans are unequivocally facultative carnivores. There is just no other possibility, its likely that we've been eating 90+% meat for over 3 million years at this point, and only started eating a large amounts of plant matter around 8 thousand years ago because we ate all of our prey.
Plants were always starvation food, which is why the ability to digest them was not selected against completely. It was a definitive survival advantage to be able to survive on plants. Part of the reason neanderthals got bred out/outcompeted by us is likely that they were even more carnivorous, and lost the ability to survive on plants altogether, which was their doom when their hunting ranges disappeared. While we adapted to eating more plants, and adapted the plants to be more nutritious. But we're still carnivores, and thrive best on a fully meat based diet. There's a reason why our brain capacity fell 10% in the last 10k years. That's well documented, not some conspiracy.
I would say that's fair enough. I've looked into the literature and haven't found an obvious and proven conclusion for what benefits and downsides leafy greens actually have. The literature is very divided and none of the studies in either direction are especially convincing, from what I've seen. When there isn't an obvious scientific conclusion that something widely believed to be good is actually really bad (ie. grains) I tend to fall back on conventional wisdom and looking at dietary staples of cultures across history and geography. It's easy to see why something poisonous like grains would become so widespread in our diets despite the harm they cause since they are so energy-efficient and easy to grow in massive quantities. It's more difficult to understand why our ancestors would bother to make leafy greens an important part of their diet when they contain almost 0 energy; it would just be a waste of time if it wasn't providing some benefits.
They're pretty bad for you, ong. Never eat kale or spinach, shits poison
It's possible for people's bodies to be abnormally sensitive to anything. If you are someone who is especially sensitive to certain things in food like oxalates in green vegetables then you should tweak your diet to avoid these things. For most people the amount of oxalates in green vegetables won't cause enough harm to outweigh the benefits. For most people, the diet I mentioned will be 95% of the way to their personal optimal diet.
Well, while you're not strictly wrong, you can't really know if you're sensitive to oxalates or not, because those fricking things accumulate silently over years and years. And then one day you're hit with kidney stone pain, and wish you never ate that shit. The only sensible course of action is to avoid the possibility, because there is nothing, absolutely nothing in leafy green vegetables that a human being needs or wants. It's all useless fibre and poisonous plant insecticides/ antiparasitics.
It's possible for people's bodies to be abnormally sensitive to anything. If you are someone who is especially sensitive to certain things in food like oxalates in green vegetables then you should tweak your diet to avoid these things. For most people the amount of oxalates in green vegetables won't cause enough harm to outweigh the benefits. For most people, the diet I mentioned will be 95% of the way to their personal optimal diet.
Also forgot to mention that ~40% of the American population (larger % in other areas) would benefit from eliminating/reducing dairy. As one of the most common foods some people can be especially sensitive to, it's often worth experimenting with eliminating it and seeing how you feel.
Ong, when I found out about dairy sensitivities just recently I was a bit sad. I love me some dairy, and I thought its a-ok on the carnivore diet. Turns out it really isn't a lot of the time, so its down to beef, lamb and salt.
Ong, when I found out about dairy sensitivities just recently I was a bit sad. I love me some dairy, and I thought its a-ok on the carnivore diet. Turns out it really isn't a lot of the time, so its down to beef, lamb and salt.
People are sensitive to dairy because it's ruined with high temperature pasteurization and high pressure homogenization. Switch to raw milk and raw cheese and you'll notice your sensitivities disappear over the course of a couple weeks. If you can't get raw dairy, then yes it's better to go without dairy than to get the trash from the grocery store.
>Grains are literally poison, worst possible food you can eat in excess
Grains are healthy and benefit gut health > American diet is far far far in excess in grain consumption
Who gives a shit >Heavily processed food is also literally poison, ie. any fast food or packaged snacks with preservatives and additives
Meat is is an unhealthy as most processed foods > Green vegetables are amazing for you
Ok >Red meat is amazing for you
Red meat is unhealthy >Other meat is amazing for you (chicken, fish, eggs)
Of that list only fish can be healthy, eggs are chicken periods with too much cholesterol > Other vegetables (root veggies, fruit) are fairly neutral, not especially good not especially bad
According to what evidence >The primary benefit of keto / carnivore is not eating grains and not eating processed food, doing more than that is usually overkill
Meat and saturated fat is unhealthy so there's no benefit to keto >Reducing/eliminating grains and eating homemade food from fresh ingredients is the optimal diet
Grains are healthy, meat is not
Tried vegan and I got really lethargic and lost all of my gains in the gym (went down 1pl8 on my bench in 1 week). Tried carnivore and I'm steadily losing bodyfat and gaining muscle. I've already experienced both extremes and can say with confidence that my body is designed to eat meat.
I eat carnivore excluding my IPAs and sour beers. Not enough carnivore option at my local barcade though its tough after I drink a couple while I play a few games of Rick and morty pinball its got me wanting to rip my beard out.
Just started a semi carnivore diet a few days ago holy shit I never realized how hard it is to eat 1lb of beef in one sitting. I'm basically full halfway through and bursting at 3/4ths. And this is coming from a fatty that used to eat large pizzas by himself.
Pure carnivore is bad for you. Extremely low carb diets reduce testosterone, which is why all the well known successful carnivores are old guys already on therapeutic levels of T replacement, roiders and former carnivores that now also have fruit and honey.
Carnivore diet doesn't lead to good health, it's not religiously prescribed, it's not based on any historic way of eating. It's a fad diet that makes you sick. Why would anyone eat this way?
Humans are omnivores
Only homosexuals can't stop gagging on meat
>Humans are omnivores
proof?
>proof?
So no?
uhhh humans produce amylase
>Humans are omnivores
The correct term for humans is obligate carnivores.
No, it is not
>Some carnivores, called obligate carnivores, depend only on meat for survival. Their bodies cannot digest plants properly. Plants do not provide enough nutrients for obligate carnivores. All cats, from small house cats to huge tigers, are obligate carnivores. Most carnivores are not obligate carnivores.
Humans can cleaely tolerate a range of plants, especially fruits, extremely well.
> Plants do not provide enough nutrients for obligate carnivores.
Both of these are correct with humans.
> All cats, from small house cats to huge tigers, are obligate carnivores.
Yes, but we also put grains, starches and vegetables in cat food, and they digest it perfectly fine. They may even extract some nutrients, but are they thriving?
> fruits
Fruits can be part of an optimal, meat-based diet. They help you get your electrolytes. There’s a bit of infighting on whether or not to include fruit and honey in a carnivore diet, so the jury’s still out. If you feel like eating fruit, eat fruit.
Whoops thought I copied this part
>Their bodies cannot digest plants properly.
in that first part of the reply:
> Plants do not provide enough nutrients for obligate carnivores.
Both of these are correct with humans
Hopefully that makes sense.
>Both of these are correct with humans.
You completely missed the point or are being intentionally disingenuous
Neither. Human beings can’t get all their nutritional requirements from plants. If you are on a vegan diet you have to carefully plan or you will become deficient in something or maybe even get sick and die. In the wild a vegan diet would be virtually impossible.
Also we can’t digest plants because our stomachs are incapable of breaking down cellulose like herbivores do, so our body just pushes all the fiber out undigested.
I didnt read past the first sentence because again you missed the point entireltt
>he didn’t read what I said about house cats
>he doesn’t know what “-based” means
>
You are using a strawman please assess the actual argument thanks
It’s not a strawman. Cats and dogs are obligate carnivores and we feed them kibble with corn, grain and vegetables and the digest it just fine. Are they eating the optimal diet though? Are they thriving? Well, the average life expectancy of a golden retriever is down 8 years in the last half century, so I’d say no. Also indoor cats struggle a lot with obesity which would be an absurd concept in the wild with cats being one of the most lean and athletic animals. So I’d say no, they are not thriving. Do human beings thrive on a vegan diet? You try it and tell me.
Again, please avoid strawman arguments
I don’t see how that’s a strawman argument. Perhaps reiterate your original comment.
The point is that we domesticated obligate carnivores and started feeding them the same diet we feed ourselves, now they get all the same diseases we get. How many wolves do you think suffer from arthritis and hip dysplasia? Ever seen a morbidly obese panther?
Call it a strawman, I call it common sense.
Go back to the first post and follow through and you will see where you inserted a false premise
So you are saying human beings are carnivores but not obligate carnivores?
I’ll agree that our molars and side-to-side jaw movement suggests that we should be eating *some* plants, but perhaps we evolved that way so that we could survive dire situations where we couldn’t get a kill for weeks at a time. Perhaps we evolved to be able to digest plants in lieu of claws, horns or giant fangs.
What would be fallacious though, would be to say we are meant to eat plants regularly, because our bodies can’t convert plant material into vital nutrients, and plants largely can’t support our relatively high caloric needs (because of our big brains)
I'm saying you inserted the false argument that humans should be vegan at the top of the argument. Zero people said that. You assumed that since people suggest that humans should eat plants that this means vegan. It doesnt. Humans are omnivores. Anyone who suggests otherwise is being taken for a ride by grifters and doesn't know basic physiology, which is you I'm Assuming since you immediately strawmanned at the slightest hint of objection to your fallacious claim
I just think if you take a concept to its logical extreme it says a lot about said topic on a micro level:
>strictly carnivore
Many powerful empires and smaller tribes subsist on a carnivore diet. Eating meat has contributed to growth in human height and the human brain
>strictly vegan
Macronutrient deficiency and/or certain death.
What does that tell us about eating plants?
>I just think if you take a concept to its logical extreme it says a lot about said topic on a micro level:
I dont care it's irrelevant to the conversation and its a blatant strawman. It doesn't follow that someone objecting to "we should only eat meat" believes the opposite. The rest of your post is appea to authority and appeal to history strawmen. Have a good day.
Instead of disproving my point you’re just going
>HURRR YOURE NOT ARGUING THE CORRECT WAY I WIN
Ok bud
He accepts your concession
>Human beings can’t get all their nutritional requirements from plants.
Correct, I agree, hence why we are omnivores
there's nothing in plants you can't get from meat
There's nothing in meat you can't get from eating pills. Why even eat food? Just supplement it all with pills.
>Human beings can’t get all their nutritional requirements from plants.
Whats the evidence for that
>f you are on a vegan diet you have to carefully plan
So you are just debunking your previous statement and saying vegans can get all nutritional requirements from plants and all they have to do is.... to plan it lmao
>maybe even get sick and die
Where's the evidence that vegans get sick and die in comparison to the rest of the population?
>you will become deficient
In what? Vegans can get all essential nutrients from plants
>In the wild a vegan diet would be virtually impossible.
What's the evidence for that? Me talking to moron like you wouldn't be possible either cause there's no internet in the wild, also this is a nature fallacy
>Also we can’t digest plants because our stomachs
What "plants", where's the evidence?
> because our stomachs are incapable of breaking down cellulose like herbivores do,
Most herbivores cannot break down cellulose either, are you moronic
>so our body just pushes all the fiber out undigested.
Fiber is a sign of having a quality diet
tldr: you are a fricking moron
>carefully plan
that usually means supplements. stop being a gay
>
Vegan diets are gaining popularity, also in families with young children. However, the effects of strict plant-based diets on metabolism and micronutrient status of children are unknown. We recruited 40 Finnish children with a median age 3.5 years-vegans, vegetarians, or omnivores from same daycare centers-for a cross-sectional study. They enjoyed nutritionist-planned vegan or omnivore meals in daycare, and the full diets were analyzed with questionnaires and food records. Detailed analysis of serum metabolomics and biomarkers indicated vitamin A insufficiency and border-line sufficient vitamin D in all vegan participants. Their serum total, HDL and LDL cholesterol, essential amino acid, and docosahexaenoic n-3 fatty acid (DHA) levels were markedly low and primary bile acid biosynthesis, and phospholipid balance was distinct from omnivores. Possible combination of low vitamin A and DHA status raise concern for their visual health. Our evidence indicates that (i) vitamin A and D status of vegan children requires special attention; (ii) dietary recommendations for children cannot be extrapolated from adult vegan studies; and (iii) longitudinal studies on infant-onset vegan diets are warranted.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33471422/
i eat everything
but mostly meat
Omnivore means you can eat everything
Carnivore means solely meat
The fact that we can eat goyfeed without immediately dying doesn't mean we are omnivores. Keep on developing illnesses, goy, ~~*they*~~ will promptly provide you with pills to withstand these "inscrutable" ailments, just keep munching on that shit.
The fact our digestive system is literally designed to digest plant and meat products make us omnivores you bizarre twerp
Why would I eat carnivores?
I just eat lots of meat but also lots of other stuff.
Ya can't get drunk on meat.
>Raw meat
Enjoy salmonela
That's from salmon eggs moron.
Only rich people eat that shit.
>Only rich people eat that shit.
The expensive shit all comes from sturgeon actually
It's not raw. It's medium rare. Beef also doesn't have salmonella unless it is contaminated from contact with chicken meat.
It’s badly cooked. The fat looks cold and unrendered
Been eating raw liver and undercooked beef every day for a year, raw eggs for 6 months, and plenty of raw milk kefir too. Still no salmonella. When's that supposed to kick in?
>Salmonella is le bad!
I'm not picky
i'd eat steak everyday if I could but I only make 50k/year lol.
Oh look the richgay humble boasting about his financial gains
???? $50k/year is nothing dude. studios are like $2500/month where i live
You make 50k and live an an area as expensive as San Francisco. That's some severe brainrot
yea i should just quit my job and move to colorado right?
A chuck roast is $10-12 and except for maybe some bacon or ground beef and eggs that’s all your food expenses for 1 day
>eating a chuck roast every day
I may never shit again
Good. That means you’re absorbing everything you eat.
That's pretty doable at 50kyr bro, if you wanted to be super frugal look up one of the butcher channels on youtube or tiktok and you can save a lot of money cutting and freezing the meat yourself
Look at all those gains on the plate. That's what? 400 grams of delicious medium rare protein?
>vegans tell me that i'm going to die of a heart attack from eating red meat and eggs
>carnivores tell me that i'm going to die of a heart attack from eating fruits and vegetables
Solution: eat meat and fruit.
Or really, just eat healthy meals and take note on which combinations give you the best results. For me, a diet of mostly meat and fruits is enough to get my gains train chugging ahead of schedule.
I like potatoes too much
I’M FRICKING BROKE OKAY?!? DON’T YOU THINK I’D EAT NOTHING BUT STEAK AND SMOKED SALMON IF I COULD AFFORD IT
A pound of ground beef is $3, a 14 oz can of salmon is $2.50 at aldis
>A pound of ground beef is $3
It's like 4-5 where I usually go.
>a 14 oz can of salmon is $2.50
Bottom of the barrel, farmed salmon is literally poison, argueably worse than fast food, just in different ways. They swim in and eat their own shit for their entire lives, the pellets they get feed are garbage and they are fed more antibiotics and steroids than actual food. Don't get me started on the additives and food coloring.
If you're going to eat salmon and want it to be healthy, wild caught is your only option. Yes, it's relatively expensive. Suck it up or eat cheaper healthy foods.
>3$ for a pound of ground beef
americans have it the easiest yet they cry the loudest
I don't do meme diets anymore, so I just eat a range of real whole foods and am fine with it.
I still put down about 1.5 lbs. of meat per day, but frick eating carniketogay for every meal, that shit's lame and hinders gains, so no thanks.
But, if I HAD to do a meme diet, I'd probably pick carnivore as the least moronic one to join the cult of. NOTHING was worse than my decade as a vegan, that shit was just awful.
I love vegetables and fruits. They are tasty. Not a big fan of beef but i love chicken, pork meat and fish.
I’m so conflicted
Today I day 2 of carnivore
But I can’t imagine eating tons of red meat every single day of my life can be good for me.
Part of me says “yeah but it’s high protein high fat and zero carb it’s great”
Part of me says “humans are omnivores who have eaten plants and berries and nuts since the dawn of time”
Part of me says “are there really anti nutrients in plants and are plants really trying to kill us” it just doesn’t sound believable.
What’s the actual fricking deal fit?
The truth is that carnivore will give you a superior body but a shorter life. Over consumption of protein (>75g/day for humans) is directly related to rapid aging jn twin mice studies. The Maasai have the lowest life expectancy in the whole world but are the tallest in Africa
I would imagine that would be due to infant mortality (lack of health care etc.). I’m on an omnivore diet (150 g of protein a day)
No, it’s not, there are omnivore tribes in the same area who live a decade longer on average
Are there studies that state that the omnivore tribes are actually consuming less g of protein a day compared to the Maasai? I imagine that both tribes have to ration their food
Yes, the maasai consume only beef, milk and blood, averaging 126 grams of protein a day and life to just 45 on average but stand 6’3/190cm on average. The Kikuyu, who also live in kenya consume maize, beans, yams, peas, etc in addition to goat, chicken, etc averaging 73 grams of protein a day and live to 63 on average but stand just 5’7/170cm on average.
Idk maybe they’re missing out on nutrients. I’ve been sticking to the same diet for months and my blood work is great and my body fat % is dropping. I eat to have enough energy even in a deficit. Some days I probably get close to 200 g
Like I said, a carnivore diet is superior for body building but not longevity. You’re trading one for the other. Caloric deficit of 30% and low protein consumption have been shown to greatly increase life spans in mice and antecedently in humans who survive famines. It’s best to manipulate these to your advantage when building your body or raising your child but when you reach the maintenance phase, you should drop the protein. In terms of longest livers on the planet, italy and switzerland top that list with diets heavy in carbs and low in protein
>You’re trading one for the other. Caloric deficit of 30% and low protein consumption have been shown to greatly increase life spans in mice
We are not mice.
>and antecedently in humans who survive famines
Likely as many anecdotes of people who didn't have a caloric deficit and lived to 90+ years old.
>we are not mice
No, but we are close enough for the findings to be likely true in humans. Human studies take a lot longer, a life time really
>Likely as many …
No, you’re misunderstanding, those who survived famines live longer on average. This was first discovered after the great finnish famine of 1868
>No, but we are close enough
We're not that close. This is why chimp testing is often used after mice trials and then later human trials for most things. Things often work in mice and not in humans, vice versa. For example, Mice have a large functioning cecum whereas human beings only have a vestigial cecal appendage. Mice also have a stomach divided into two regions, a fore-stomach and a glandular region, whereas a human's stomach is entirely glandular. This is of course ignore other features that further distinguish humans and mice. So it is likely the case that being designed more for a fibrous diet (hence the cecum and the caecotrophy as part of regular digestion of mice) so it is very much the case that a mouse would have problems with a higher protein diet as the protein may interrupt the functions within the cecum whereas it's supposed to eat the caecotrope for the needed protein. Whereas human beings are designed to process more protein rich foods, especially meats, in which case a person has a much high threshold for how much protein he or she can intake and needs to actively seek out protein sources to get the needed protein since a human being cannot produce much of what they need themselves.
>the findings to be likely true in humans
No
I didnt bother reading all that, mice are close enough to humans for testing to be accurate within a degree or two, this isnt up for debate
No, they compared then to those born a decade before and after
Shorter people live longer on average than tall people. Like I said, there is a trade off for everything. Heavy meat and dairy will produce a large human but will shorten the lifespan, it’s why greta thunberg looks like an elementary schooler
Jojen paste is the diet of champions
>this isn't up for debate
He just debated you using really good arguments, you just saying "duuuur noooo" makes you a fricking moron.ed mouthbreather Mice studies are useless for metabolic studies in humans.
Interesting points.
The most known case of carnivorous people are the Eskimos. Afaik the didn't had a short lifespan issue. Perhaps those African tribes had some other factor that you aren't considering?
>I didnt bother reading all that
It's part of an argument as why
>mice are close enough to humans for testing to be accurate within a degree or two, this isnt up for debate
is false. It is up to debate and in case of dietary ideas. By refusing to read and address the details of the human v. mouse digestive system you conceded that you are unwilling to account for reality and you're working on nothing but dogmatism. You're just being dishonest then.
A mouse's digestive system is designed to process fibers (inedible and not a source of nutrition for humans) and use them to produce specific proteins and fats in its cecum (the human cecum is vestigial and does not function as a regular part of the digestive system), in an easily digestible form for the mouse that is later expelled then the mice eats its own shit and absorbs the expelled nutrients. Some terms for this process is Caecotrophy or Coprophagy. It's digestive system is designed for this purpose whereas a human being, unless they are mentally ill, will natural avoid eating their own shit and his digestive system designed to more efficient break down food in the first pass.
When you take a mouse off of a protein rich diet and put it back on it's natural diet (vegetables), of course it's going to live longer. However, a human's natural diet has always consisted of larger amounts of meat 50%+ of the diet in most of history, with the rest from forage. A fairly high protein diet.
As for the caloric "deficit" in mice, it is more likely that they were initially overfed prior to coprophagy being account for and then after they were fed, the 30% deficit was removed by the coprophagy and now the mice were not being overfed. So the overfed mice who are not designed to use external sources of protein very well, start to become healthier when they are not overfed and eat a species appropriate diet. The mouse study doesn't tell you anything outside of that.
>No, they compared then to those born a decade before and after
And then you still have all the statistical sampling problems associated with such a comparison. I can therefore safely dismiss it. There is also the presence dozens of unaccounted for variables that need to be ignored in order to believe that the period of famine (though even in famines there are still large groups of people who can get sufficient amounts of food) is the only variable here. So it's lazy and dishonest. It may very well be that the people presdisposed to living shorter lives at the time died during the famine while the genes that would predispose them to shorter lifespans only were more prominent in the next generation. This is also ignore the fact that a large of factors can change over a generation that are difficult to account for in general and most of the time cannot accurately be accounted for. So I can reject this anecdote as evidence of famines increasing lifespan out of hand.
>This is why chimp testing is often used after mice trials and then later human trials for most things.
Chimp testing is banned in most of the western world
>No, you’re misunderstanding, those who survived famines live longer on average. This was first discovered after the great finnish famine of 1868
In other words "those who survived famines lived longer than those who didn't." Lol.
Isn’t famine survival also correlated with decreased development in children? Shorter adult height etc.
Where the frick do people get those moronic stats on longevity? If one person dies at birth and the other at a 100 years old, their average life expectancy is 50 years old. Child mortality, you dumb fricking Black folk. If a maasai person survives their teenage years they live to their 70s, like most people.
Are you the sort of mouthbreather who thinks cavemen died in their 30s? That a 40 year old was ancient and revered for their tenacity? No, dumb frick, all premodern societies have huge child mortality rates that bring down the average. In europe over half the children used to die before the age of 5 just 200 years ago. It's the greatest unspoken trauma our species endured for all its history, in fact.
The maasai also fully circumcise their women, like the moronic Black folk they are. Lots of girls die from complications of that barbaric practice
>The maasai also fully circumcise their women, like the moronic Black folk they are. Lots of girls die from complications of that barbaric practice
It's a good thing no modern country practices circumcising their children.
>mouse studies
>relevant to humans
No.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanized_mouse
No.
Yes
Athletes from around the world who look better than any carnivoregay eat high carb high protein diets. Literally no one healthy or good looking eats high protein high fat diets. Even body builders realized low carb high protein diets weren’t as good. The whole of it comes down to just having clean carbs
Lol, as if carnivore has been prevalent in the modern world, ignoring the carnivores who mog you
Post any carnivoregay who mogs anyone
*crickets*
just eat washed white rice, it has zero antinootrients
red meat is good for you but don't discard other things such as eggs and dairy
also super low carb is garbage because you will feel like shit when you exercise
The true redpill is being Peaty. No vegetables and little no grains to avoid antinutrients. Fruit for the phytonutrients and vitamins (doesn't have the defensive chemicals that vegetables have). As much red meat as you want, just balance it with gelatin/broth collagen and occasional organ meats. If you really want to have starches you can have well-cooked root vegetables. Dairy and eggs, literally their purpose is to support and feed young lifeforms and give them strength. Dairy and fruit are made to be eaten as much as vegetables and grains are made not to be eaten.
meat is unhealthy
Yep, that's why I've known so many vegans who were fat and sick, must be because they avoided meat!
One time i fricked an ugly vegan chick with a nice butt for around a year and came in her mouth/ass/pussy countless times. I asked her if she was still a vegan if she ate my cum so much, she 'broke up' with me shortly afterwards.
Don’t like meat that much tbh, can’t imagine eating it everyday
Buy fatty meat and do a better job cooking it.
T-bone steaks are trash. Rib steak is where it's at. Fight me homosexual
I like rice, fruits, legumes, nuts, and vegetables
Only a moron with 0 personality deals in absolutes(in terms of diet)
Killing animals is wrong, I do it as little as possible. If you had a conscience you'd do the same. Hunting them out in nature is one thing, factory farming is demonic shit.
>killing animals is wrong
proof
If you don't like fruits and vegetables you have the palette of a toddler and are either obese or auschwitz mode
I like bread and taters simple as
How do you deal with strength loss on zero carb?
carnivore diet gives you max protein and creatine there's no strength lost
Liver still makes me want to gag
Carnivore Aurelius liver chips help, but they only make it easy to take small bites and wash them down with kabob or veggies in butter or something
Meme diets are for females
Men instinctively know that you need carbs for heavy lifting
>listening to the ~~*experts*~~ is what men do
im a poor slave
God have us fruits and vegetables. He also gave us the knowledge to grow grains to make bread. Jesus broke bread for his disciples.
So I eat it all =)
I'm not autistic so I don't need to stick ti a fad diet to feel good wbout myself
Going 30 days carnivore as part of an elimination diet. Hoping it helps a bit with my chronic bloating, tendon pain and fatigue related issues. Most likely going to transition to keto after the month is up to compare my general health. Might try a vegan diet after that if I'm not where I want to be by then.
Currently 5 days in. Cravings and energy levels were dogshit the first 3 days but I'm on the upswing since day 4. Haven't shit in like 3 days though so hope that clears up. Generally feel less bloated and inflamed as well.
this lil homies diet is unironically the best, red meat and organs + fruits you tolerate, juice and honey, raw dairy if you tolerate it
I don't tolerate dairy well and I think fruits with a lot of citrus cause problems. Right now the plan is to complete my 30 days and then introduce different food groups into a keto diet every 5-10 days. Probably going to go vegetables -> fruits -> honey/other sugars. Really trying to nail this down so I don't have to repeat this process in the future.
Vegetables should be last, they have the most plant toxins and problematic compounds, you're going to wreak havoc on yourself. I think the fixation on having a keto diet specifically will be negative too. Literally you'd probably fare better even with white rice than vegetables.
I might swap fruits and vegetables chronologically, but white rice is for after I've finished experimenting with the keto diet. If what your saying is true and vegetables cause some harm, I should pick up on it by day 10.
if I feel good after 30 days of carnivore, I might stretch it to 60 days and the keto phase to 60 days as well. That'll give me a solid 20 days to recognize if a new food group is causing problems.
>they have the most plant toxins and problematic compounds
Kek stop taking youtube pseudoscience from grifters as gospel.
That's the face of people who hear summaries of "science" in podcasts about meme diets.
Bulletproof Diet is very similar, but less restrictive - especially if you want to cycle carbs
Dave Asprey now agrees with Saladino on fruits
Say what you like about Saladino but you can be sure he's not an industry shill, he changed his mind so many fricking times on diet it would be impossible lmao
supplement magnesium(bone broth)
you should go longer then 30 days for max improvements like 3 months at least
I have hemochromatosis so to stay healthy I most just eat chicken and fish, still have a steak at a nice restaurant on my birthday though
Carnivore is an eating disorder
carnivore gives you every nutrient you need
Fruit and veggies and yogurt are yum yum too
I eat fruit and yogurt and kefir. I guess the proper term is animal-based.
>fruit
>animal-based
No.
Animal-based means you get MOST of your calories from animal foods, usually 80%+, so fruit and honey can slot into the remaining flexible portion if you tolerate it and do well on it.
>says carnivore doesn't work
>hasn't tried it himself for at least a month in order to prove it
that's the power of the mentally ill corn syrup fueled anti science mind
Lmao do I have to try every meme out there to prove them all wrong?
Yup, that's science. You can't say that protein powder is gross waste product marketed to morons unless you try it first either.
protein powder is gross waste product marketed to morons
Not only that, but you also need to be emotionally invested in whatever personality cult surrounds said meme diet so no matter what the results are, you delude yourself into experiencing a positive effect.
Not even anti-reflective glasses.
I've done a strict carnivore diet in January once for a month, and it was great, and I'm now going back to it, a few weeks later.
As far as the research I've found most people can get away with doing 100% meat but it might be easier for 80/90% meat and the last filled with fruits and veggies.
I've tried finding accounts of people quitting carnivore for good reasons but most were because they made stupid mistakes like not paying attention to actual nutrition, like getting liver every once in a while to round out their vitamins.
Overall, I plan on doing carnivore now again for 3 months straight and see how it feels after that
I feel better, I actively lose weight while eating 2-3 kg of meat a day, and i have more energy.
How the shit do you eat 2-3kgs of meat a day, I'm a month in already, and can barely get 2 x 250g ribeyes down. I decided to go Lion Diet yesterday, so cutting out all eggs and cheese and coffee, we'll see how it goes, but so far I did omad with those steaks plus some eggs and cheese. I might add a third steak now, but I seriously doubt I'll want to eat anything more after that. And I'm not fricking small either, 6'3 265lbs, fat fricking bastard, carb/beer fuelled since fricking corona rugged my sanity. Lost like 20lbs already in a month tho, so happy about that. Maybe that's why I only eat so much? Shitload of fuel on my frame. Not that I'm complaining, mind, I can still go to the gym 3x a week and do some cycling. Back when I was eating carbs there's no way I could do this much, I'd be tired constantly
We got any experienced ketolards around? Preferably ones that went the arc I'm going for, which is to say losing all that disgusting flab asap.
> I decided to go Lion Diet yesterday,
Its already over
Idk, lost over 20lbs already. I can't see how going even more strict is not gonna work even better.
Hard pills to swallow:
- Grains are literally poison, worst possible food you can eat in excess
- American diet is far far far in excess in grain consumption
- Heavily processed food is also literally poison, ie. any fast food or packaged snacks with preservatives and additives
- Green vegetables are amazing for you
- Red meat is amazing for you
- Other meat is amazing for you (chicken, fish, eggs)
- Other vegetables (root veggies, fruit) are fairly neutral, not especially good not especially bad
- The primary benefit of keto / carnivore is not eating grains and not eating processed food, doing more than that is usually overkill
- Reducing/eliminating grains and eating homemade food from fresh ingredients is the optimal diet
What about oxalates in leafy green vegetables? Eat enough of that and you will be poisoned as well.
It's possible for people's bodies to be abnormally sensitive to anything. If you are someone who is especially sensitive to certain things in food like oxalates in green vegetables then you should tweak your diet to avoid these things. For most people the amount of oxalates in green vegetables won't cause enough harm to outweigh the benefits. For most people, the diet I mentioned will be 95% of the way to their personal optimal diet.
That’s a fair point but I’m still not convinced that we *need* leafy greens in our diet. Meat covers all essential micro and macronutrients. To me it’s not worth the risk of ingesting those plant toxins.
Exactly my point, there is no benefit, and a lot of risk, it makes no sense
I'm afraid that's incorrect, humans are unequivocally facultative carnivores. There is just no other possibility, its likely that we've been eating 90+% meat for over 3 million years at this point, and only started eating a large amounts of plant matter around 8 thousand years ago because we ate all of our prey.
Plants were always starvation food, which is why the ability to digest them was not selected against completely. It was a definitive survival advantage to be able to survive on plants. Part of the reason neanderthals got bred out/outcompeted by us is likely that they were even more carnivorous, and lost the ability to survive on plants altogether, which was their doom when their hunting ranges disappeared. While we adapted to eating more plants, and adapted the plants to be more nutritious. But we're still carnivores, and thrive best on a fully meat based diet. There's a reason why our brain capacity fell 10% in the last 10k years. That's well documented, not some conspiracy.
I would say that's fair enough. I've looked into the literature and haven't found an obvious and proven conclusion for what benefits and downsides leafy greens actually have. The literature is very divided and none of the studies in either direction are especially convincing, from what I've seen. When there isn't an obvious scientific conclusion that something widely believed to be good is actually really bad (ie. grains) I tend to fall back on conventional wisdom and looking at dietary staples of cultures across history and geography. It's easy to see why something poisonous like grains would become so widespread in our diets despite the harm they cause since they are so energy-efficient and easy to grow in massive quantities. It's more difficult to understand why our ancestors would bother to make leafy greens an important part of their diet when they contain almost 0 energy; it would just be a waste of time if it wasn't providing some benefits.
They're pretty bad for you, ong. Never eat kale or spinach, shits poison
Well, while you're not strictly wrong, you can't really know if you're sensitive to oxalates or not, because those fricking things accumulate silently over years and years. And then one day you're hit with kidney stone pain, and wish you never ate that shit. The only sensible course of action is to avoid the possibility, because there is nothing, absolutely nothing in leafy green vegetables that a human being needs or wants. It's all useless fibre and poisonous plant insecticides/ antiparasitics.
Also forgot to mention that ~40% of the American population (larger % in other areas) would benefit from eliminating/reducing dairy. As one of the most common foods some people can be especially sensitive to, it's often worth experimenting with eliminating it and seeing how you feel.
Ong, when I found out about dairy sensitivities just recently I was a bit sad. I love me some dairy, and I thought its a-ok on the carnivore diet. Turns out it really isn't a lot of the time, so its down to beef, lamb and salt.
People are sensitive to dairy because it's ruined with high temperature pasteurization and high pressure homogenization. Switch to raw milk and raw cheese and you'll notice your sensitivities disappear over the course of a couple weeks. If you can't get raw dairy, then yes it's better to go without dairy than to get the trash from the grocery store.
>Grains are literally poison, worst possible food you can eat in excess
Grains are healthy and benefit gut health
> American diet is far far far in excess in grain consumption
Who gives a shit
>Heavily processed food is also literally poison, ie. any fast food or packaged snacks with preservatives and additives
Meat is is an unhealthy as most processed foods
> Green vegetables are amazing for you
Ok
>Red meat is amazing for you
Red meat is unhealthy
>Other meat is amazing for you (chicken, fish, eggs)
Of that list only fish can be healthy, eggs are chicken periods with too much cholesterol
> Other vegetables (root veggies, fruit) are fairly neutral, not especially good not especially bad
According to what evidence
>The primary benefit of keto / carnivore is not eating grains and not eating processed food, doing more than that is usually overkill
Meat and saturated fat is unhealthy so there's no benefit to keto
>Reducing/eliminating grains and eating homemade food from fresh ingredients is the optimal diet
Grains are healthy, meat is not
>Red meat is unhealthy
no its not and you are still a gay
>explain yourself
I like taking a shit every day, and I like that i don't have to strain for it to come out
Imagine cutting your steak into pieces before you eat it like a child
It's like you want it to be cold and dry
Tried vegan and I got really lethargic and lost all of my gains in the gym (went down 1pl8 on my bench in 1 week). Tried carnivore and I'm steadily losing bodyfat and gaining muscle. I've already experienced both extremes and can say with confidence that my body is designed to eat meat.
want to live past 60
thoughts on butter and eggs with meat carnivore bros?
excellent way to get your cholesterol into life-threatening territory
by all means, die early, idgaf lol
sneed about it
I eat everything homie
even your moms pussy
I eat red meat every few weeks. I mostly eat chicken now, sometimes fish. Gave up pork for now, it's expensive as frick here
Had some last night for my pre workout
carnivores eat raw meat, not that carcinogen-covered burnt garbage
It's not even burnt, has a nice brown crust
AGEs are carcinogenic
Because it’s fricking dumb any nutrition coach worth anything laughs at this dipshit meme diet
Bro's I'm this close to pulling the trigger on a traeger grill......My buddy did some T bones on his with a reverse sear last night and and I coomed.
My father in law made us brisket in his traeger once and I almost bought one after that it was one of the best meals I’ve ever had
I have a big green egg already but that low and slow cook you get from a traeger is levels above that.
Chris? You don't even lift and IST is for chuds.
I eat carnivore excluding my IPAs and sour beers. Not enough carnivore option at my local barcade though its tough after I drink a couple while I play a few games of Rick and morty pinball its got me wanting to rip my beard out.
Just started a semi carnivore diet a few days ago holy shit I never realized how hard it is to eat 1lb of beef in one sitting. I'm basically full halfway through and bursting at 3/4ths. And this is coming from a fatty that used to eat large pizzas by himself.
>1lb of beef in one sitting.
Why even
>eating carnivores
but you're eating a cow, which is not a carnivore
I can't look at that without feeling nauseous
>tfw veganpilled
im poor
cant afford some cheap ground beef?
costs too much plus seems a little boring.
I made beer cheese soup tonight. It was tasty.
>t. Mad he doesn't have any
Beer cheese? that's a thing? i thought cheese comes from dairy no alcohol
Money
Gonna eat a porterhouse steak soon. I mog the world.
Pure carnivore is bad for you. Extremely low carb diets reduce testosterone, which is why all the well known successful carnivores are old guys already on therapeutic levels of T replacement, roiders and former carnivores that now also have fruit and honey.
Carnivore diet doesn't lead to good health, it's not religiously prescribed, it's not based on any historic way of eating. It's a fad diet that makes you sick. Why would anyone eat this way?
>Why would anyone eat this way
Lack of critical thinking skills
>Extremely low carb diets reduce testosterone
High carb diets increase estrogen.