Okay, guys, I cannot do it anymore. We treat animals like shit. It's insane, it's hell. I can't eat meat anymore. I love it, I eat copious amounts of if, I really really love it. But I just can't fool myself anymore. I don't want to do it.
Please tell me what I'm in for. Will I lose it all? Will I go back to lmao2plate bench? Will I be to maintain at least? I've been drinking a litre of milk a day for a decade now. I'll drink two. I'll eat 20 eggs. I'll double the way. But I just don't want animals to live this life anymore.
Please help me. Tell me how to lift and not eat meat.
Fish are dumb. Eat wild fish and oysters.
My man, I was thinking about this, but I've seen fish farms first hand and it's shit, it's disgusting. I go fishing so I might keep eating fish though, good suggestion. If I kill it and it lived a decent life, I'm not feeling bad.
Nice man. Thanks for the hope.
Me as well, that's why I eat so much meat. I'll probably drop down 10-15 kilos to 80 kilos but fuck it.
True. I'll do this. I do it now anyway, sometimes I just go and choose a lamb from a herd. I don't cut its throat, I don't care about this, but if it was just chilling on the pasture and then I eat it, it's fine. Too expensive though.
I don't want to argue, it's subjective. I don't care about cuteness. Breaking the legs of the animal so it sits in its shit or eating a pig that didn't turn around for two years is abnormal. I'm not a monster.
Thanks bros, I feel a bit more confident.
Oh for sure the way factory farmed animals are treated is bad. If you care that much I'd say buy from a local butcher instead of grocery stores and grow your own veggies. Probably the most moral option.
You can lift. You'll just lose all your strength.
Cows are also really dumb. They are good for nothing but eating grass, making manure, making milk, and getting eaten.
cows are as smart as a young human child, not much less than dogs. plus they are very emotional and caring animals
I have watched cows shit on the heads of their calves because the calf is trying to nurse between its mother's legs. MULTIPLE TIMES.
Cows can have a lot of personality, but they are not very bright.
there is zero logic to this. have you not seen cats and dogs shit on weird things or in weird places with zero situational awareness? hell just look at horses. they are shitting kings
Jap warrior monks were vegetarians and they were tough motherfuckers.
You're going to need a source for that. A primary source specifically.
>you aren't allowed to eat le cute animals!!
Don't care. If God made it, I'm eating it. It's that simple
good for you op. I would do that but im a poorfag and meat is cheaper protein for me right now
Just know that many more of smaller, cuter, animals are killed in the process of farming plant foods. Get over it or have a nice day.
>Please tell me what I'm in for
Improved health
>Will I lose it all?
No.
> I've been drinking a litre of milk a day for a decade now. I'll drink two. I'll eat 20 eggs. I'll double the way. But I just don't want animals to live this life anymore.
The dairy and egg industry are worse for animal wellbeing than the meat industry. Give it up. There is zero reason to consume those products.
Majority of crops are fed to livestock, which outnumber us greatly and eat more food than us. Less crop deaths from humans directly eating plants.
Plants don't have a brain or nervous system. They objectively cannot feel pain or experience suffering.
Good to hear man. I also understand about the dairy industry but it's easier to get a couple of bottles of milk from a guy with a cow than it is to eat beef that comes from a guy with one cow, of course. Although the west has fucked us good already, I can still get dairy from normal people.
Where do you think the animal food comes from you retard?
Inb4 you only eat freegrazing animals
I only eat freegrazing animals.
From a year-round pasture that doesn't harvest grass to make hay for the winter? And that doesn't hunt/kill critters to stop them entering the pastures? And that doesn't cause eutrophication harmful to aquatic ecosystems due to fertilizers? And that uses regenerative principles?
You can still get complete proteins as a vegetarian, a lot easier than as a vegan. But yeah its harder. Probably will lose some mass.
Another option is to get your own meat and eat that. Hunt, fish, buy/barter from local farmers who raise animals in whatever way fits your ethics, etc.
Imagine being a prehistoric hunter-gatherer who is happy if he can keep his belly full on most days, avoid debilitating disease and have his woman survive childbirth so someone can take care of his kids, while also fearing raids from vicious neighboring tribes, then seeing your descendant whine about keeping a retarded cow locked up and executing it to feed your family.
> awh, but they go moo, so cute
the point is that you don't actually have to eat meat to survive
hunter-gatherers probably wouldn't bother with hunting if they had easy access to an alternative food source
Yeah, I don't want to argue but you're a dumb fuck. I've had a pig, I've had chickens, I've cut their throats, that's life. Putting them in a cage and stuffing their throat, that's not life man. I just felt it today. Maybe because lent started, I don't know, but it's bad.
I respect ancestors. They were not pity, they would not care if I eat meat or not as long as my wife and kids are fine and we live a noble life. Or maybe they're dust in the wind and cannot give a shit. Or maybe they were not noble either. I don't know, but it has nothing to do with pigs being unable to turn around their whole life, chickens living in their shit or salmon living in an eternal day to get fat.
Your argument is that you associate these practices with negative emotions. Then by all means, if you choose to avoid them, that's perfectly fine, no problem here.
However, a lot of people simply don't care, at least those that practice this treatment or enable those practices.
So what makes you right and them wrong? Muh feelings? I'm also against practices that negatively impact human health, because it's simply retarded to do that to ourselves, but as far as morality towards the animals is concerned, I don't see a point beyond they move and do stuff, so they ~~*somehow*~~ outrank plants, because plants don't have eyes and make noises and don't feel pain as if awareness somehow makes you uniquely considerable and not just another random heap of biological mass.
Buddy, you'll live past the age of 24 and realize you're not hot shit. I was the same, still am in some ways. Don't overdo it.
True, I agree with you. I'm trying this now anyway, it's just really expensive. I don't hunt but I might see if I can get some meat from hunters.
Thanks man. I'll give it a try again. It's so tasteless though, when compared to a nice steak. However, it is what it is, you can get accustomed to anything. I didn't know about the amino profile, sounds nice.
Former vegan again here. Avoid tofu like the plague. Don't consume any soi products aside from fermented ones.
Unfermented soi is chock-full of phytoestrogens that will feminize you and make you impotent over time. You can also find countless examples of feminized vegans and it's all because of these phytoestrogens.
When I went vegan I lost my boner for THREE months after consuming this every day. Please heed my warnings and look at ex-vegan compilations if you don't believe me.
I'll check, thanks man. I've read that the phytoestrogens from food are not influencing your hormones but I'm not an expert, I'll drive deeper. I have no intention of going vegan. Getting milk and eggs from farms where animals live a moderately normal life is not that expensive. I also love milk like you couldn't believe, it made me who I am, it's the food of life. My grandpa survived poverty thanks to milk. My partner's grandpa is quite old now and he only eats milk. Food of the gods.
>dude who plays video games all day and eats shitty processed food ends up being a chud
>it's because of the söy not the processed food and no exercise at all
Riiiiiight. I'm pretty sure someone eating a bit of söy isn't gonna get nuked into a trannoid, especially if you have a healthy diet with shit that's actually good for hormone levels like broccoli.
Look up the vegan infertility compilations.
That shit is not a joke and it happened to me. A day after eating red meat and cheese again I got morning wood.
Isn't it a lot more likely that it was due to drastically undereating calories or not living healthy lifestyles as opposed to trivial amounts of onions products? Not to mention you can be vegan/vegetarian without onions, but regardless, all those vegan compilations are always anorexics using veganism as a front for their eating disorders, fruitarians (I need not explain why this is bad), or degenerates who've never stepped foot in a gym.
The compilations include most of the top vegan influencers/leaders and doctors.
Limp dick, lack of periods, low T, lessened muscle mass is universal.
Happened to me too and I consumed 3000 cals a day minimum
On what macro split if I may ask?
Any compilation you'd like to share in particular? I'm not finding shit lmao
Also Sv3rige's epitome of malnutrition series. Just watch the series, don't listen to the guy himself (he's extremely mentally ill)
I didn't believe it either until it happened to me. You can't find these videos in searches because there's massive censorship. TPTB want to make us all infertile and weak.
You are soulless
Seek god
Btw, some good books on non meat nutrition? I literally just bake or stew some meat with vegetables and eat it with bread. I have not idea what I'll do now. I love cheese, beans and lentils but I'd be happy to learn more.
look into How Not To Die and/or How Not To Diet by Dr. Michael Greger. He is a vegan just a heads up but he uses purely fact-based studies to show you why whole-food plant-based diets work wonders for your health. Plus all proceeds go to charities always.
He is sort of a medical professional hero in the vegan world. You could always use some of his advice as you slowly transition to a new lifestyle, even if that includes eating locally sourced animal products if you so choose.
The only meat I eat is hunted boar meat. It's much better than any domestic pork and it's not farmed. You just have to make sure it's hunted,because there are boar farms now.
Tofu is a complete protein (all amino acids). Any asian/Chinese stir fry you can replace the meat with tofu. Mapo tofu is one of my favorite dishes to eat with rice
Not sure where you'll get your collagen though.
Yeah you'll be fine if you just up the milk and egg intake
Good to hear man, I know that's true, will do.
True as well, thanks man.
Based response.
fucking idiot. have a nice day. never post again.
I just did buddy.
Very good thread, I'm happy fit is also generally disgusted by industrial farming. I feel more optimistic than an hour ago.
what is that? looks like a pizza bowl or something
It's called guveche (big ones are called guvech). It's made from clay, traditional Bulgarian utensil. Probably all around the Balkans, we have the same kitchen. You can put anything in it and bake it. White cheese, tomatoes and eggs is a classic. This one is with sausages, mushrooms, cheese, some other stuff I can't recall. It's a lazy way to cook.
Nice man, I'll read into this.
Hey Op, you sound like an insufferable cunt.
I might just as well be hombre.
just eat ethically sourced meat if you can afford it or hunt it yourself.
I felt similar to yourself and went whole foods vegan.
It had a lot of benefits, like basically infinite cardio, but I did start getting symptoms of anemia after about a year or so.
Now I just eat 85% plant-based with some grass-fed and finished beef, raw cheese, pasture-raised eggs, and wild-caught fish.
Livestock that lives natural lives, not penned up in factory farms is great. And I can assure you these animals are both happy and healthy. This is the way God intended and this is the great error of our society in abusing our food sources.
Balanced eating is best IMO anon. You don't want to fall into the vegan or carnivore camps once you develop health issues. That road only leads to insanity. Remember instead, the words of our Lord.
Genesis 9:3 - Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
Industrial meat at most grocery stores is dogshit you can taste/smell the animal's misery in every bite.
Quality meat from a butcher is a whole different world
>puts bread on table
I didn't even begin to read your bait and already knew you were a histrionic hipster.
Yeah, you're actually right, bread on the table, especially my fucking living room table is disgusting. We were tired and just didn't put a tablecloth, I'm sorry for my ways.
Also, I'm not a hipster buddy, pure Balkan peasant.
You posted body and mog me, therefore are not a gay. miring your physique. I take back my insult.
Alaskan pollock and local free range eggs, anon. Good luck and god bless you.
Thank you man, to you as well.
Why don't you buy your meat from a local farmer
It's double the price at least and I'm not too rich, also I don't only take care of myself. Still, this thread convinced me that I should try to get 10-20 percent of my nutrition from such meat. Maybe instead of eating meat 3-4 times day, I'll just eat the expensive stuff a couple of time per week. I'll still do a dry spell now because I feel a bit disgusted by all of it.
That's the best way to do it. Med diet-style
Thanks for them confirmation man, I'll check how our Greek neighbours do it, although I'm sure they're the same BBQ loving piggies as us, just adding more octopuses instead of pork.
I'll go to sleep now but I appreciate all the input, thanks guys.
Very good OP. I would recommend reading up on the Orthodox monastic diet.
They've basically developed a good way of eating down to a science over 1000 years of practice and advocate fasting as a form of medicine. Greek islanders with the longest lifespans eat very similarly https://youtu.be/m2t2AWaRo1g
It's really not. If you have a couple people to go in on a whole or even half cow you'd be shocked at how close prices get to supermarket level but with insanely better quality. It's a lot of meat
If you actually give a shit then you'll need to cut out animal products altogether, including dairy and eggs, retard
all of that looks delicious. is all of that vegetarian? care to share what it all is?
also proud of you OP. I feel like I'm in the same boat, but can't pull the trigger
There are plenty of strong vegan lifters. Just look at vegagn gains! He is very strong. Ignore the obesity and diabetes, these are the prices we must pay to look after the animals.
I tried being semi-vegan for around 6 years. The "semi" part comes from two exceptions: honey and bivalves. Because I don't really give a shit about bees and bivalves don't have a brain or CNS so they can't suffer. It worked just fine, health-wise. I experienced zero of the problems vegans usually have.
After 6 years I saw so many vegans deteriorate that only like one of the vegan fitness guys I started following at the beginning was still vegan. I decided not to risk it and added dairy and eggs back to my diet, though I always get it farm fresh from a small local place that I know takes good care of the animals. Yeah the conditions aren't perfect for chickens and cows, but shit they're not perfect for the morons and Hispanics growing my coffee beans or the chinks making my phones, so I can live with it. Still no meat though. I haven't notice any health changes at all from this recent addition, neither good nor bad, after three months.
So yeah, eat a lot of eggs and milk and cheese, make sure to take the whey and creatine, and consider adding a serving of bivalves like every other day at least. Maybe it won't be optimal, but with that a tons of fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds, and maybe some supplements just in case, you should at least be able to maintain.
this is what I strive to become eventually. I can give up meats easy, but eggs, cheese and I guess thru extension milk is my bane.
I can still nail every single essential vitamin and nutrient by being vegan aside from dairy and eggs right? fish pills too of course.
I cannot think of a single essential nutrient that you won't get via a plant based diet + eggs and dairy (including whey) + bivalves and fish-pills. Maybe you won't get as much creatine as someone wolfing down steaks for every meal, but you can supplement that. I mean I'm happy for some anon to prove me wrong here, but I think there's a reason that there are exactly zero societies/cultures that are 100% vegan, but there are several very old ones that are vegetarian (or pescetarian).
I appreciate your encouragement. I've been cutting for the last 6 months and have lost about 40 lbs so far. I am just now starting to lift (slowly and lightly) so I am curious the reasoning for having whey and creatine?
I am new to this world and would love advice. and don't worry I am making sure to watch my protein
>be vegan
>thousands of rats and other vermin die every time your garbage grade food is harvested
>food is then shipped around the world
There’s 2 ways to be actually pro-animal welfare. Either you’re 100% self-sustainable with your food or you find a local farmer that is
>garbage grade food
Ok. Don't eat any plants ever.
Just meat and cheese. See how well that works for you
>thousands of rats and other vermin die every time your garbage grade food is harvested
Humans in farming accidents too. Doesn't make it okay to farm, kill and eat humans. Plus 70% of crops are grown for livestock, so there would be less of those deaths anyway on a plant based diet.
Right cause why would a man ever want to stand up for the weak and defenseless. All those brave men who stand with the status quo and don't challenge our morals over the fear of losing bacon and cheese.
*Humand die
I honestly can’t fathom how any man can be vegan without ulterior motives. Veganism is retarded and for the birds but id understand if it was a scam for pussy or money/fame (most fitness YouTubers that claim to be vegans are definitely not, it’s like lying about being natty)
I don't care.
Even if I cared fish is farmed in big tanks very similar to nature and they are killed before being cooked unlike bears who eat them alive.
Fag, you should be mulched for fertiliser
Nah you can keep all the gains on fish, eggs and milk. Try to get shellfish in there sometimes, eggs and sardines daily, fill the rest with dairy and other fish.
how about cheese?
>Boohoo think of all the animalrinos who also eat other animals!
All biological life consumes other biological life. Even plants have consciousness and don't particularly like being eaten. Can't handle it? Opt out. God hates quitters.
Imagine prioritizing the feelings and emotions of livestock above your own health. Yikes.
Dairy and eggs can help you. But you gotta go hard.
Just eat grassfed
I drink around 2l/milk per day and it's where I get most of my protein. The rest is supplemented by weekly oysters, liver, and some light fish. I do have ground beef still but it's closer to just once a week, and it's grass fed locally raised.
If you're worried about the source of your food, just start buying from farms and whatnot that you know raise their animals properly. There's many farms which do that. There's really no excuse to not wanting to eat animals these days when it comes to ethical considerations. If you're still against eating meat that's ethically raised, then you're not being an empathetic person, you just have a cultish mindset.
Grains, legumes, nuts, seeds
Milk, eggs, yogurt
Tofu, tempeh
You may need a b12 supplement
>Will I go backwards
Take care of yourself and you shouldn't. Theres a bunch of fake natty vegos but you should be able to make gains
Did you ever plow a field op?
>We treat animals like shit. It's insane, it's hell.
Check out Mic the Vegan on youtube, he has great factual videos on vegan nutrition
>just stop eating meat
>just recycle that can
>just get an electric car
>just stop using your AC
>just stop driving/flying so much
nothing you do on an individual level matters btw. id rather donate to a reputable animal conservation or similar