How long could I have a low blood pressure until my brain starts to get damaged? I can't derma stamp and use minoxidil without getting a low blood pressure, but at the same time, I'd rather have hair than be healthy so
If necessary I'll take a 2 week detox from min though
You don't eed to do the dermastapping permanantley, just until the hair comes through. If you're not on fin, you need to do that too.
I decided to try just weekly 2mm microeedling for like 20 min + daily 5 min scalp massage instead of topicals and meds. I've been doing it since November and it practically stopped m shedding and I got decent temple regrowth. I can't recall tell if my overall hair density improved other than temples cuz I have long hair tho
Keep in mind I was like NW2 + some thinning along the temples & vertex, idk if this will work for more extreme cases
Extremely happy with the results. I urge everybody to try this for a few months if it's not already too late for you and you still have time
Still idk if this will be enough to keep my hair forever, but it takes next to no time to keep this schedule up and it feels pretty good so ima keep doing it
you're going to build up scar tissue and only notice it once it's too late. stop falling for all these american psycho tier meme routines. this obsession with hairlines is so shallow and pathetic. Are you really that empty inside?
Post hair
> 2mm microeedling for like 20 min
2mm is very long and 20 min is a cazy amount of time to microneedle for. you're gonna scarify your scalp completely. there's very little evidence for microneedling even doing anything long-term other than increasing minoxidil absorption.
>daily 5 min scalp massage
lmao
there are microneedling studies that focus on more than topical absorption. I got a lot of non vels hair on places that had no hair 4 months ago, with no topicals or meds.
2mm is on the longer side, but I have long hair so I doubt I'm getting more than 1.5mm in. Most studies I've read recommend 1mm to 1.5mm
I'm not gonna watch a 30 min video of an infuelcer with no qualifications screaming about botox scientific papers.
I doubt scalp massages are doing much for me but my scalp is a lot looser & the skin feels thicker than when I started (probably just a consequence of not being as tight).
Also forgot to mention that I shampoo with nizoral 1 time a week.
>there are microneedling studies that focus on more than topical absorption. I got a lot of non vels hair on places that had no hair 4 months ago, with no topicals or meds.
>2mm is on the longer side, but I have long hair so I doubt I'm getting more than 1.5mm in. Most studies I've read recommend 1mm to 1.5mm
they used it in conjunction with minoxidil. there are almost no studies investigating it as a monotherapy, especially in the context of various needle lengths. there's nothing to suggest it could stop hairloss, just that it could be useful as an adjunct therapy, so far
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8776974/
while there are many indications that long term use can lead to scar tissue, even hair transplant surgeons notice it during the procedure in people who's been doing it for years.
>I'm not gonna watch a 30 min video of an infuelcer with no qualifications screaming about botox scientific papers.
>muh trust the experts
it's easy to fall for even the most obvious scams if you just refuse to look at anything that would challenge it, I guess. reading scientific papers isn't some magic skill, the only issue is finding time and paying for access to go through enough of them actually reading them and scalp tightness meme is stupid even using empirical evidence, otherwise finasteride wouldn't work, hair transplants wouldn't be possible and the transplanted hair would continue to fall out in the same pattern and people with genetic defect who don't produce 5ar would experience hairloss.
scalp tension and botox are pseudoscience
same validity as putting your head into a campfire because there's that one study that a guy grew his hair on a burn scar
youre just gonna lose hair after a year or two
Use tretinoin after you apply minoxidil instead of rolling or just don't do minoxidil the day you roll
I made the moronic mistake of applying minoxidil after I rolled but even then when I tried waiting 24 hours after rolling, I still got sides. Hopefully it was because I was using 2 mm needles for some parts of my scalp or because I didn't do a complete detox yet.
default protocol is microneedling and then applying minoxidil. it will help with blood flow and minox penetrate deeper.
whats this new bollocks of doing them separately? some dudes microneedle the hairline every damn day, but with only 0,5mm.
>2mm microeedling for like 20 min
wtf??? you stabbing your scalp for 20min? wtf? why???
looks like it's already too late OP
Just smoke, vape, chew, or pouch to raise your blood pressure back up bro
you aren't gonna damage your brain with topical minox lol, even with oral, the sides were mostly fluid buildup and increased heart rate. minox doesn't stop hairloss too, it just artificially prolongs the growth phase for the duration you're using it, the follicles miniaturize just the same and will eventually die out. you'll lose all the gains once you stop. that's why it isn't recommended a a monotherapy. you need a 5 alpha inhibitor or a topical antiandrogen to stop hairloss
>minox doesn't stop hairloss too, it just artificially prolongs the growth phase for the duration you're using it, the follicles miniaturize just the same and will eventually die out
This isn't true. I see it posted all the time on here and other hair loss forums which is disappointing. Minox has always been more than just a growth stimulant.
I agree though, it's better to include something to block DHT as well.
Using minox without fin is like putting a bandaid over a gaping wound instead of stitching it together first. You're not fixing the source of MPB, you're just treating the symptoms.
>minox doesn't stop hairloss too
here are the facts, nothing stops hairloss except castration and estrogen tablets lmao
minox stops hair follicles from perma death and can even bring some back from the grave better than even 0.5mg daily dutasteride
this idea that minox is just a "bandaid" compared to other medication is stupid, because every other medication is also just a "bandaid", if you stop the medication your hairloss will resume, just with different time courses
>You're not fixing the source of MPB, you're just treating the symptoms.
MPB is the symptom, the cause is 5-alpha reductase activity
and you can improve the symptom with minox
>the cause is 5-alpha reductase activity
Yeah, which min doesn't address, you fricking moron lmao.
no
you claimed minox "only" treats the "symptoms" of MPB therefore it is ineffective, well the symptom is the actual hairloss and that is the entire point of MPB medication, to stop or even reverse MPB
do people suffering from hairloss take fina or duta to fight hairloss or to just crush DHT as much as possible?
they do it to fight hairloss
the CAUSE however will always be there, you cannot get rid of it
duta and fina do NOT crush 5-alpha reductase activity completely in the scalp, they reduce it, so 5-alpha reductase is still pushing your hair follicles towards their death they're simply slowed down due to diminished activity
minox slows down hair follicle death too, hence it's also a viable hairloss drug
this explains why even people on dutasteride not only are unable to reverse hairloss they're actually for the most part incapable of even halting hairloss completely even on 2.5mg duta daily which is the most effective way of crushing DHT there is besides hormonal castration
you cannot get rid of the cause
you can only treat the symptoms, regardless of which drug you take
I ain't reading all that.
Theorycrafting like a redditor won't change facts.
>theorycrafting
unironically what you're doing rn and ignoring the fact that minox slows down hair follicle death and even reverses hairloss in most people that use it, unlike fina or even duta
Min not affecting 5ar and DHT levels (or doing it on an insignificant scale indirectly) is just a fact, morono.
You're misunderstanding how min/fin work. Not my fault you're a mouthbreather.
>You're misunderstanding how min/fin work.
no I'm not, I take fina and I know how it works and what it is actually used for
it is as much of a bandaid as minox is, you have to keep using it or you lose its effects, most people that use it still keep losing hair after the first 2 years of use
they work through different mechanisms but the entire point of using them for MPB is to reverse, stop or at least slow down hair follicle death, minox helps with all of that
this notion that minox is "just a bandaid" and other drugs aren't is idiotic, people just listen to one guy(mostly haircafe) say shit like this and take it for granted without any critical thinking skills involved
Sounds like cope to me, soldier.
no need for that because I know I am right
Long term studies on finasteride say you're wrong kek. You're still misunderstanding how fin/min work like a midwit.
>long term studies on fina
most of which only look at hair "density" not hairline recession which keeps progressing in people on fina
I know all about that shit you're saying, I've read all there is to read.
one or two studies long-term studies on east asians or some other isolated ethnic group looking at solely hair density on the crown doesn't prove fina maintains your hair indefinitely
>"n-nuh uh, this one doesn't count"
>proceeds by misinterpreting studies
>"w-well, fin doesn't maintain your hair... except it does, but it doesn't count because it doesn't fit my narrative!"
Yep, sounds like cope, buddy.
plenty of studies showing recession taking place despite the use of fina, even non responders
even in the isolated studies you cherrypick you still find outliers that lose hair
you know I'm right, no drug is 100% effective, even your lord and saviour kevin knows this is true
>long term studies showing that fin decreases progression on the NW scale
>"n-nuh uh, those are isolated and don't count!"
>no studies that repeat the same result on min
>"w-well... no drug is 100% effective!"
Kek, coping, deflecting and malding.
Especially funny because some literally who youtuber is living in your schizo head rent free.
NTA but there's a reason there's not a lot of research on minoxidil monotherapy, it's mostly a waste of time and you'll still be losing ground because it's not a DHT inhibitor and androgenic hairloss is caused by scalp DHT, which has been known for like 50 years by now
>NTA but there's a reason there's not a lot of research on minoxidil monotherapy
it is the single most well studied and most popular hairloss drug there is and it has been used to treat hairloss before finasteride ever was
there's a reason why it is the ONLY effective hairloss drug available over the counter in western countries
fina/duta are absolutely required for maximum benefit but minoxidil by itself is very effective in fact there are countless examples all over the internet you can simply look at of people not just stopping hairloss but getting massive gains on their hairline not seen in any example of fina/duta monotherapy
> it's mostly a waste of time and you'll still be losing ground
depending on how aggressive your hairloss is, you will be losing ground regardless of what you do, let's stop being delusional here please
>because it's not a DHT inhibitor
and why is DHT a problem again?
because it kills hair follicles right?
what does minoxidil do?
>and androgenic hairloss is caused by scalp DHT
which kills hair follicles
which minoxidil helps with
minoxidil even grows hairs on places you didn't have hair on
men with 0% 5-alpha reductase enzyme activity on their scalp don't get bald, but you aren't one of those men no matter what drug you take, nothing short of absolute castration would put a stop to the androgen induced hair follicle death process
so fina is a bandaid just like minoxidil is
no cope and no deflection
you know I'm right, not even kevin aka captain fina would disagree with the undeniable fact that not every single person maintains hair on finasteride and that the only long term studies we have on fina are flawed
>long term studies showing that fin decreases progression on the NW scale
decreased progression ==maintenance
keep backpedalling
>it is the single most well studied
I'm talking about minoxidil montherapy vs finasteride monotherapy
>it has been used to treat hairloss before finasteride ever was
Minoxidil has been patented for hair loss in 1988, finasteride in 1984
>there's a reason why it is the ONLY effective hairloss drug available over the counter in western countries
Strawman
>countless examples all over the internet you can simply look at of people
Countless counter examples as well
your point?
>you will be losing ground regardless of what you do, let's stop being delusional here please
moving the goalposts here, the point is that finasteride and dutasteride treat the underlying problem that is scalp DHT, which minoxidil does absolutely not, and in that regard it actually fixes hair loss instead of just promoting additional growth that doesn't fix it, but only covers it up
>DHT
>kills hair follicles
thanks for proving me right
>which minoxidil helps with
not to the extent that fin/dut does
>minoxidil even grows hairs on places you didn't have hair on
source: trust me bro
min absolutely does NOT create new hairs, only causes growth in hair that already exists
>men with 0% 5-alpha reductase enzyme activity on their scalp don't get bald
Thanks for further proving me right
>but you aren't one of those men no matter what drug you take
Which doesn't change how the mechanism of hairloss works
I accept your concession
>I'm talking about minoxidil montherapy vs finasteride monotherapy
minoxidil has been studied in treating hairloss since the 70s
it has been commonly used for hairloss since the mid 80s
it is the most studied drug there is for fighting hairloss and there are plenty of studies on it as a form of monotherapy
>Minoxidil has been patented for hair loss in 1988, finasteride in 1984
wrong
finasteride was not patented as hairloss medication before the 90's
minoxidil was prescribed by doctors to their patients for fighting hair loss since at least the mid 80's and its hair growing properties were observed since the 1970s
one can just easily look this up and confirm that I am right and you're wrong
>Strawman
that's not what a strawman is
>your point?
that it's not as simple as you make it seem
>moving the goalposts here
no one's moving goalposts here except for maybe you or that other dude malding over the undeniable fact that finasteride does not maintain your hair indefinitely
> the point is that finasteride and dutasteride treat the underlying problem that is scalp DHT
which causes hair follicle death
the desired results are what matter
minoxidil doesn't lower 5-alpha reductase activity but it doesn't matter because if the outcome is preventing hair follicles from dying it will obviously help
>and in that regard it actually fixes hair loss
no it doesn't "fix" hair loss in any regard, because hairloss still occurs and 5-alpha reductase activity always takes place, just at a much lower rate
>thanks for proving me right
read it again
>min absolutely does NOT create new hairs
misleading
>I accept your concession
read again what I posted calmly
now look at the individual results post 2 years of fina use and how "prevention of disease progression" is measured
you won't
>now look at the individual results post 2 years of fina use and how "prevention of disease progression" is measured
pic rel
basically the same thing as in the other trials, majority of patients experienced improvements, including actual hair growth, only 17% didn't experience prevention of hair loss, while 75% of the placebo group lost hair and those results were reliably replicated
you literally have no argument at this point and you're trying to cherrypick because you got emotionally attached to your pseudoscientific views and paranoid opinions
I accept your concession
>I accept your concession
not so fast
>vertex
pic rel
significant improvements in the mid-scalp area in over 300 patients
keep cherrypicking brother
>12 months
>no analysis of the temples or hairline
see what I mean?
>make up your mind
no contradiction
minoxidil was prescribed by doctors to treat blood pressure problems since the 1970s, but its hair growing effects were recorded before it was finally patented in the mid 1980s specifically for hairloss
finasteride was only patented in the 1980s for treating enlarged prostates, not for fighting hairloss
it was only in the 1990s that it was first introduced as a hairloss medication
>finasteride doesn't somehow not cure hair loss if you take it for prostate disorders
it's a fact that it's been patented in the 80's
you could say the same thing about minoxidil which had hair growing effects reported since the 1970s
earlier than finasteride
>temples or hairline
there's trials on that too
cherrypick harder
in men with hair loss in the anterior/mid area of the scalp, finasteride 1 mg/day slowed hair loss and increased hair growth
I kneel
I'm not complaining about anything, it's just a fact that minoxidil has been known to grow hair for longer than finasteride ever existed
>finasteride was only patented in the 1980s for treating enlarged prostates, not for fighting hairloss
you're complaining about that, yet running in circles about minoxidil being observed as helping with hairloss despite not being patented as a hairloss drug prior to that
as I said, strawman
>finasteride was not patented as hairloss medication before the 90's
wrong
no
that's when it was patented for treatment of prostate enlargement, not hairloss
>minoxidil was prescribed by doctors to their patients for fighting hair loss since at least the mid 80's and its hair growing properties were observed since the 1970s
>that's when it was patented for treatment of prostate enlargement, not hairloss
make up your mind
finasteride doesn't somehow not cure hair loss if you take it for prostate disorders
it's a fact that it's been patented in the 80's
Honest to God, didn't even read.
Post hair.
>seethes about a youtube eceleb again
>more schizo ramblings fueled by his denial
progression ==maintenance
Kek, those long term studies literally showed an improvement on the NW scale by a whole point on average, ESL-kun.
Keep coping.
>nothing short of absolute castration would put a stop to the androgen induced hair follicle death process
pic rel
improvement in 87-99% of patients
prevention of further hairloss in 99-100% of patients
n = 3177
n = 801
n = 532
numbers like that don't exist for minoxidil
>inb4 it's asians
pic rel
european/mixed population
n = 1553
duration - 5 years
>inb4 but the methods
same methods that're used in minoxidil trials, hair count per inch + photograph comparisons to determine cosmetic progress
good thing then rosemary does. saw palmetto and mentha oil also and increases the life cycle of your hair.
what would happen if i used oral min + saw palmetto + mentha and rosemary oil?
>here are the facts, nothing stops hairloss except castration and estrogen tablets lmao
bullshit. lowering the scalp DHT enough stops balding. minoxidil has a completely different mechanism of action, it prolongs the growth phase of the hair lifecycle and the gains aren't permanent. it doesn't prevent hair follicles from perma death either, it may buy you a little time at best, and even that isn't certain. and estrogen isn't that effective at stopping hairloss, so you just parrot old wives tales.
>fin + minoxidil 5% topical + ketoconazole shampoo for 2 years
>still balding
>switch fin with duta, been 8 months
>still balding
what the frick else am i supposed to do. im killing myself.
2.5 mg dut+ prp + oral minoxidil+ topical dutasteride
Otherwise only God can help you
This is such a useful tool for decoding what you schizo autists are talking about
If you end up trying prp, make sure they're doing activated prp. The evidence for it is still pretty limited but the results people do seem to get come when it's activated with calcium(or at least in some way) rather than just injecting it straight away.
>topical dutasteride
Useless. Its molecular weight is too big to effectively absorb through the scalp.
i'm no doctor but fricking with your blood pressure sounds like a moronic idea
like half the population is on blood pressure meds. if you're experiencing volume depletion, adjust your med routine and fluid + electrolyte intake.
This shit doesn't work. Try fin, don't waste your money
Oral minox definitely works. Hair has never looked better and my temples are filling in.
Grow your hair back then grow yourself taller
Start with finasteride to see what your baseline will be once it stabilizes
just accept that your balding dude. look at Clint Eastwood or any of those old school men. many of them had mature receded hairlines and looked good with them. it comes down to genetics, i eat like shit, smoke cigarettes everyday and jerk off daily and this is my hairline at 23.
So sad that people are so scared of unlocking the mystic and esoteric powers that come at norwood 5
i just got i7-12700F. it was the only thing they had in the store atm. is it good? do i need a cooler for it?
well frick
Been taking topical minox orally for a month now and there's about a hundred new hairs growing on my hairline, the regrowth is crazy. Decided to go all in as I noticed I got some regrowth only from using it topically on my beard, some of it clearly was going systemic.
Oral minox is the way to go lads. If you can't get the tabs just take a few drops of the topical every day like me (spread out, not at the same time).
have you compared blood pressure before and after?
not him, oral min 5mg didn't really change anything for me, fin actually lowered my blood pressure a lot, from 140/90 to 115/80, I'm convinced fin is cardiac protective now and keeps DHT induced hypertension away!
not him either. I didn't notice any change in blood pressure before and after, except that afterwards, my blood pressure would shoot up if I drank coffee.