If we were just running after prey until exhaustion why did we grow bigger and more muscular and why are big guys regarded as alpha and respected? Shouldn't our optimal form be otter mode if this was the case?
If we were just running after prey until exhaustion why did we grow bigger and more muscular and why are big guys regarded as alpha and respected?
>If we were just running after prey until exhaustion
We weren't
We would stalk our prey and generally throw some kind of edged weapon at them. That’s why humans are so insanely accurate while throwing something
> why humans are so insanely accurate while throwing something
Lmao
No seriously the amount of energy expenditure which goes into accurately being able to throw something is exceptional. We are the only known creature in existence that can do it. Even if you throw your keys to your wife and she can catch it without really thinking about it at all, that's a marvel of nature and an ability that we are extremely blessed to have. We can't make robots do that
> We can't make robots do that
Yes we can moron. There are thousands vids on tik tok about hoops that are impossible to miss
I mean unconciously
are you implying the robots are conscious?
A humans anatomy is perfectly designed to throw. It quite literally does not get better than this, any actually viable robot would be made in the image of a human arm, shoulder and supporting muscles.
>Chimps
Sheer aggression and hostility
>gorillas
Strength and size
>orangutans
Strength and climbing, their finger bones are shaped in such a way that just hanging from a branch uses very little energy compared to a human or other apes
>humans
Intelligence and throwing.
No other ape can throw like we can. Sure some of the apes may be able to throw a stick or stone but it’s sloppy and often inaccurate while also lacking the power a human can put behind a throw. A gorilla may be able to toss a 50lb rock like it’s nothing but a human could throw a baseball hard enough to kill if it hits the right spot.
We are to the great apes what the hermit crab is to other crabs. We throw and we do it well.
>No other ape can throw like we can
What do you mean "other"? We aren't apes
>We aren't apes
Yeah, we arent
Are you moronic? Have you ever seen an animal throw a rock or a stick with the precision of a human?
Have you ever seen a monkey attempt to throw something? It's pathetic.
>Have you ever seen a monkey attempt to throw something? It's pathetic
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kY5_vFaOwgM
lol
Go to a baseball game.
so is being good at darts the way to get women to swoon over you?
Yes unironically
And beer pong
The bigger the guy the more formidable he appears. Nothing to do with hunting. The biggest lion doesn’t win because he’s the best hunter, he wins because he’s the best at fighting other lions
>why did we grow bigger and more muscular
We didn't. We're way weaker than other great apes.
>why are big guys regarded as alpha and respected?
Because fitness isn't just about hunting but group dynamics as well. Being the best hunter doesn't mean you'll breed the most.
This.
This, 100% this.
We do have specialized cooling that no other species has, its called sweating. Feet also become like leather if you walk around barefoot, your feet are soft specifically because you wear shoes.
>your feet are soft specifically because you wear shoes
if u walk enough the sole will get hard anyways, your feet are pudgy soft because u're lazy bum, the person u're impersonating bot
Think of it from an evolutionary perspective. If that were the case we would have specialized cooling glands or some sort of foldy skin adaption, our feet would have to be tougher than hooves, our entire upper body would be less bulky and longer limbs for a better stride
We do have cooling glands and longer limbs than other apes
We aren't apes
based moron
Confession accepted
Are you one of those 'muh 6000 years' christgays or are you moronic for other reasons?
Our stride is already long enough. We do have specialized cooling glands. Barefoot our feet callous quickly.
I don't believe we chased prey to the point of exhaustion for a meal, just that we were physically able to do so.
>Sweat
>Scar tissue
>Melanin
>Callouses
>Muscle building
>Fat storage
>Catabolizing muscle and fat
>Sophisticated socializing
>Upright locomotion using tools at the same time
Seems like we inherited a whole lot of adaptation that allowed us to hunt
hilarious bait
Ah yes those hooved wolves with scaly skin sure do be hunting it up
Humans were always ambush predators not gay homosexual chasers.
Hominids have been all over the place in size, width, height, even varied levels of sexual dimorphism we're just what's left.
The “we just walked for days until the prey exhausted itself” was just some nonsense vsauce said about the buttocks and then parroted by Redditors for years to come
>Shouldn't our optimal form be otter mode
it is. most women are repulsed by meatheads
Women are only attracted to big muscular men
All non steroid users die inceloided
testosterone helps raise muscle mass, both in terms of providing aggression / energy, and on a chemical level
higher levels of testosterone imply better functioning genetals and thus more fertility.
same for woman and big boobs (estrogen), nothing to do with motorboating deer to death
also, humans were never really hunters, as soon as god created us we've been cursed to farm
and you need upper body strenth to plow, carry objects, etc
bigger guys were also respected because it showed they have money to feed themselves.
ghengis kgan, mohammed, iayasu tokugawa, etc, were fatasses, disrespect them and see what happens
today we live in a world of makeup (bible says it's of the devil)
where women pretend they blush, pretend they have blonde hair, etc
and guys pretend they have big muscles, pretend they have a full head if hair, etc
it's a lie, and like all lies, god will destroy it
Nah homie, if you know about that you know that agriculture took a really really long time to catch on be honest; not even counting the Umman Manda type societies that only fell out of fashion in the last 1k years or so.
Humans hunt primarily, but we don't run shit down all the time. It's just not necessary unless you're totally moronic. You can just kinda herd shit towards a cliff or tree and drop a huge frickload of rocks on it or run it off a cliff you dragged a bush in front of. That's how we killed most shit that didn't suck five spears to the guts running away from some ape that jumped up and started screaming ooga booga and waving his arms.
I'd like to note that dropping a big rock on something off a cliff and stampeding animals off a cliff are enormously old hunting strategies that have either been seen in living memory or are still openly practiced today.
The idea that we all hunted like this all the time is moronic, I agree with you. If your entire existence/survival was based on hunting, you'd figure some shit out to be smarter than "me throw spear, me run after it for hours".
Early Humans probably relied on hunting tactics similar to how
described. Trapping has also been highly effective even as far as 25000+ years. Hunter-gatherer communities in North America dug pitfall traps where wooly mammoths would fall into the hole and either die instantly from the fall or be killed off from a safe distance with spears. Obviously the human body is capable of endurance hunting meaning it was commonly practiced at least at one point in history. Although for the most part, it was probably only used as a last resort.
https://nypost.com/2019/11/07/15000-year-old-mammoth-traps-are-first-proof-of-ancient-hunters/amp/
traps are so based lol. imagine being a mammoth and you're walking then you step on some ground and it just disappears. you'd be so mad lol
mammoths seething
don't be pedantic you understand what I mean in context. A human can do stuff without even thinking of it. We have to use large specialist machinery to perform a single function and it does it nowhere near as well as even a 10 year old child
>We have to use large specialist machinery to perform a single function
Yeah thats how creating things from raw materials works
show me this robot that you can just toss your keys to from any place in the room and it will catch it. Bonus points if it has any other function except this one specific task. There is a reason we use wageslaves instead of robots you don't have to pay. Look at the fricking headache around getting self driving cars out there. In theory yes, on paper yes, put it out there and it can't handle working with other people anywhere near as well as a human can. regardless of all this better yet show me another loving creature that can do it
>moving the goalposts
you think this is a competition where someone wins but it's not. you're talking to someone anonymously on the weight lifting section of an anime website about the capabilities of a robotic arm on a Saturday night
Not really, you are just vaguely identifying trends and then badly postulating comparisons
Humans display characteristics common with predators in nature. Sharp eyesight, carnivorous diet, large brain volume etc. Obviously we lack the claws, teeth and speed of something like a lion but our ability to harness the environment to our advantage and the usage of tools and weapons makes us more effective than any other predator.
>humans were never really hunters, as soon as god created us we've been cursed to farm
The mind of the domesticated christcattle is truly fascinating. Literal prey mindset.
The Mongols are who the Globalists and Vegans want us to forget about.
Having more test causes baldness in many men, why isn't baldness a desirable sign of masculinity?
Probably because excess test results in other, far more undesirable traits such as paranoia, psychopathy, anti-social behavior, and aggression.
>until exhaustion
First of all, that's not how we hunted. It was a team work of ambushing and trapping prey.
Second of all, no other animal can run as long as humans can. Sure, there are faster animals, but they can't run as long. So we would never need to run till exhaustion chasing food.
>no other animal can run as long as humans can
90% of humans can't run for more than a minute. i'm sure if you put an animal through rigorous training the same way humans train, they'd be able to run just as long
>b..but all those fatties and powershitters who can't run for their life! Obviously humans lose!
Now let's take animals you race against from their natural habitat, put them in a cage and make them fat.
Idiots. No other animal can cool themselves like humans, other animals would overheat running long distance without stopping.
>i'm sure if you put an animal through rigorous training the same way humans train, they'd be able to run just as long
your shirt is black.
>no other animal can run as long as humans can
You are comparing untrained animals with trained elite marathoners. The average animals always have better endurance than the average humans.
>no other animal can run as long as humans can
This is completely false. Both horses and dogs can easily beat any elite runner no matter the distance.
>but this elite runner can beat an untrained dog!
Elite running dogs and horses compete in 1000 mile races. The longest a human has ever ran was 350 miles.
Ostriches, deer and many other animals can also easily beat you in long distance running.
The idea that humans are somehow good at running is just a moronic myth.
>If we were just running after prey until exhaustion
We didn't.
>why did we grow bigger and more muscular and why are big guys regarded as alpha and respected?
Agriculture
we got shorter after agriculture. Try again
Agriculture is actually the reason human height decreased. The average man should be between 5'10 and 6'0 assuming you have a good diet and average genetics. Populations from roughly 15000-1000 years ago were about 5'11 on average with a SHARP decrease to roughly 5'4 at the lowest post agricultural revolution. Furthermore, wealthy individuals with access to an abundance of food (primarily meat) have always been taller than the rest of the population. Just as a random example, almost every king of England has been over 6'0, and many were 6'4 or taller
-1000 years ago were about 5'11
It clearly says the average male height under 5'9, in 0AD, 2000 years ago, and even shorter 1000 years ago.
Why would agriculture (consistent calorie source) lead to shortness? If anything it'd be mass famines that would lead to shortness, as people that need to burn less calories are more likely to survive.
>Why would agriculture (consistent calorie source) lead to shortness?
He's American, just ignore his absurd musing on history.
Women like tall strong men because it makes them feel safe and feminine
Fun fact, wild animals are scared of us more than anyone else.
>fun fact
This makes no sense. Animals aren't "ones"
As they should, I've never seen a lion with a flamethrower.
>why are big guys regarded as alpha and respected
They're not.
shoulders, glutes n abs babyyy
those are the throwing muscles
it's baffling how many people still believe in this chasing prey to death things even though hominids have been evolutionary fast tracked to high intelligence and communication skills
why would an anatomically modern human condone something so moronic? it's like having a whole set of power tools and throwing them one by one at the wall to hammer a nail
otter mode IS the optimum, thats why women all want that figh club brad pitt type of guy
We didn't jog. Jogging is an invention from television. We walked, then sprint when we got close. That's why our natural muscle fiber type is biased towards fast twitch.
The theory that we evolved as endurance hunters is based on ONE African tribe. There is no other evidence of this being the case.
Human beings are physically unexceptional outside of a few areas:
>ability to run long distances and sweat => great as a pack for persistence hunting in the savannah, limited usefulness once you get into Eurasia
>opposable thumbs + intelligence => tool use, creating traps, etc.
>specialized deltoids for throwing rocks really hard and accurately => first tool that humans used
In the wild, the ideal male form is going to be lean and somewhat muscled. Neanderthals died out/were interbred out of existence despite being stronger and more muscular, probably because they were more solitary while early human beings worked in packs.
Neanderthals didn't die out, they're israelites. Cromagnons are real humans, or caucasians.
Thought both caucasians and east asians had neanderthal mixture added.
>Geneticists now show that a Cro-Magnoid individual who lived in Southern Italy 28,000 years ago was a modern European, genetically as well as anatomically.
>If we were just running after prey until exhaustion
What? We didn't.
Humans have since the very beginning used projectiles to hunt. Which is why we're the best at throwing in the entire animal kingdom and why we see broad shoulders as such an important trait in a man.
We might've ran after prey that was already heavily bleeding but that already means the hunt was finished, no one would run after an uninjured animal.
>humans are throwers
Does this mean that baseball is the most based sport and that these would be the true alpha Chads as cavemen?
Cavemen wouldn't really see throwing things as a "sport" since that's just what they do for a living.
It's like how ancient soldiers didn't see practicing with their spears and shields as a sport, instead they were more likely to wrestle naked as a sport even though that has little use in real combat.
>wrestle naked as a sport even though that has little use in real combat.
when you are topped up in armor the one that hits the ground first loses. wrestling could have a lot of "carryover" to real combat. its also one of the best strength building exercises that you can do with bodyweight.
The reason why wrestling wasn't a part of soldier's training and was simply seen as a fun activity to do in your free time is because it wasn't much use in a real fighting scenario. Sports wrestling isn't the same as real wrestling where knives, rocks and eye gouging will be involved.
>The reason why wrestling wasn't a part of soldier's training
it was
>simply seen as a fun activity to do
wrong
> it wasn't much use in a real fighting scenario
wrong again.
>Sports wrestling isn't the same as real wrestling where knives, rocks and eye gouging will be involved
swimming in the pool is not same as swimming in the ocean because there are waves and sharks and shit, no carryover what so ever LMAO
>it was
It wasn't.
You're moronic.
god you're moronic. could you do me a favor and pull out your copy of Lewis and Shorts intermediate Latin Dictionary or your copy of Liddel & Scott's Greek Lexicon and find a word that translates to "sport"? I'll wait
>If we were just running after prey until exhaustion
we weren't, that's a dumb rungay cope
An athletic physique is the most attractive and functional. Sadly nobody on this board has ever participated in sports, and were all bullied in high school and now are trying to make up lost time at >20yo by lifting weights in an air conditioned building.
Because we weren't just running after prey until exhaustion. We were also chopping trees, tilling the land, pulling the cart, taming the horse, stabbing with a long stick, climbing trees, hills and mountains and so on until exhaustion for days on end.
You cannot run after a 4 legged animal, it's going to disappear from your field of view before it gets exhausted.
Humans were scavengers and ambushers.
Sheltered soft-handed insidegay detected.
I worked on a farm for years and I can tell you that humans can easily outrun sheep or cattle. I've chased and caught hundreds over varying types of terrain and I'm not a runner outside of work.
>why are big guys regarded as alpha and respected?
dubious
skinny guys were the beta providers while the big and muscular chad got their food by bullying the skinny guys and fricked the beta's women
no such thing as alpha or betas in hunter gatherer groups they are all quite equal
Intrasexual selection.
I don't understand why it took this thread so long to point out this simple obvious explanation
It genuinely astounds me how much morons on IST worship our ancestors but either deliberately or coincidentally know literally nothing about them.
They didn't know we developed longer forearms to throw further and more accurately.
They didn't know walking on two legs is insanely energy efficient and that we could EASILY outlast dumb 4-legged animals in long distance chases.
They didn't know being upright allowed the cranial cavity to expand independent to that of the rest of the spine, but that we needed more more fat in our diet to adequately fuel our colossal brains.
You're a bunch of dumb fricks. I wished you morons remained silent ditch diggers, but instead you Black person-brains were handed keyboards.
>They didn't know walking on two legs is insanely energy efficient and that we could EASILY outlast dumb 4-legged animals in long distance chases.
This is completely and utterly moronic, and wrong. You use significantly more energy to cover the same distance at a slower speed.
The furthest a human has ever ran was 350 miles. Huskies and horses compete in 1000-1500 mile races. I hope you realize now just how moronic your theory is. A human could NEVER EVER outrun a horse or trained dog. EVER no matter how much you train you will NEVER outrun a quadrupedal animal because running on two legs is objectively and factually more energy intensive than running on four.
There are advantages and disadvantages to bipedalism, anatomically we're actually pretty fricked and not fully adapted to bipedalism (easily disembowelled, arched back, flexible spine, neck is holding our head up the wrong way), lizards+dinosaurs are much better adapted to bipedalism, as mammals we are really meant to be quadrepedal.
Four legged animals are, overall, faster. However we can easily change both pace and direction, and climb better, they cannot (at the same size). Humans also are the greatest endurance runners, albeit not the fastest runners, but thats due to sweating rather than bipedalism. Horses cover great distances, but they mostly do so at walking pace or trot-which as they're larger than us isnt so slow+they can carry things. Dogs can keep up with us, which is part of why they're the first and best domesticated animal, but humans can still on average manage longer distances at pace. Huskies can do these races, but only in arctic conditions where they're able to cool off easily.
The main benefit of bipedalism is throw rock, which is what we are adapted to do, in nature there are no true "endurance hunters", its true that wolves and humans can and will run prey down after injuring it over great distances (part of why we got along), but ultimately every hunt starts with a sudden attack, and every hunter tries to ambush, and hopes the ambush works..
The idea that humans were endurance hunters who would chase their prey running is wild claim with 0 evidence. There are some indigenous tribes right now who practice forms of "endurance hunting", but that doesn't mean they are running. They actually chase herds/track animals while WALKING (not running), and then ambush them or go for a final sprint. Some people (running gays) have completely taking this form of "endurance hunting" out of context, and started to pretend that "endurance hunting" must mean that our ancestors ran while chasing prey.
We didn't, our bones have decreased density and we have lost fast-twitch muscle and sacrified energy and oxygen to the muscles for more energy into the brain.
Humans are just above average at a ton of shit so we can specialize in whatever the frick we want. Some natives and africans could run like 200 fricking miles without stopping. Horses, for example, can only trot about 20 miles before needing a break. We're not the best swimmers but we can swim in a variety of temperatures and we're not totally helpless if we fall into a pond. We're smart enough to make and use tools correctly. We can pass down stories, tales, memories, and knowledge not just orally but we can draw pictures so that fellow humans that don't even exist yet can pass down our experience.
>If we were just running after prey until exhaustion why did we grow bigger and more muscular and why are big guys regarded as alpha and respected? Shouldn't our optimal form be otter mode if this was the case?
1. We didn't, see pic.
2. Bighuge has never been a beauty ideal for men outside of Renaissance paintings and modern bodybuilding forums. It was always about being skinny and tough.
none of the points raised in this stand up to critical thought.
The fact that the soleus muscle is composed of like 80% slow twitch fibers shows that evolutionarily, the muscle adapted to endurance.
The point about tracking an animal is so far removed from what tracking actually is, the writer is so painfully oblivious to it. Actively hunting / wounding animals and tracking them is far more than just looking at prints in the ground. A prey animal will not be expected to outsmart a tracking human by running out of eyesight and then cutting right or left to avoid the human. The explanation also doesn't explain the presence of more than one hunter to herd the animal.
The last point that animals need to be young or old to be persistence hunted is also wrong. The whole point of persistence hunting is to wound the animal first, then track it as it will be easier to track.
There are so many logical holes in this argument it is so god damn ridiculously funny that anyone with any modicum of academic education would ever entertain this argument. This is not to say that the idea of persistence hunting is wrong or right, it's just this person that wrote this article made an extremely poor argument against it.
We didn't chase prey until exhaustion. We we stalked them using their prints. When we caught up with them we would run a short distance to get them running again and repeat the process of stalking them using their prints. Eventually the prey would be weakened by our relentless pursuit and we would catch up to them quicker and quicker as they would be unable to run for as long. This is when the heat exhaustion would catch up to them. By the end of it the prey would just lay helplesslessly on the ground and we would capture it and carry it home before putting it in a cage or killing it.
You realize the math on this doesn't work right
Go ahead and share your math with the class. It is very simple. You track the animal with it's prints. You scare the prey and it runs and attempts to cool down. You track the prints again and scare the animal. It runs again but a shorter distance because still not cooled down from first run. You track the prey again. The prey never has a chance to get to water to cool itself down and it keeps being forced to run. You eventually scare the prey again and it just lays there.
How long would this take by your estimation. Just wondering
8 hours or so, apparently
Cool so 8 hours and then 8 back. 16 hours of walking at an average of 2/5mph that a person walks is over 200 cal an hour for even a scrawny person. That's 3200 calories. Wild game is extremely lean and they had method of preservation. They'd need to eat 7000 calories of food, most of which would have a thermic dissolution rate of 25%, since its protein. So that shaves off about 25% of the consumed energy anyway. Then put on top of the expenditure the effort of carrying what they could of the carcass back to camp. And tracking wildlife to exhaustion isn't calorically feasible
taking 500 lb as the weight of a kudu, 40% yield of meat, and 159 kcal / 3oz of meat, a kudu yields 170000 calories
and since they can eat along the way, poor food preservation and what they are able to carry doesn't affect whether they break even, it only changes what they are able to bring back to the tribe
>Shouldn't our optimal form be otter mode if this was the case?
ottermode is universally proven to be the most optimal form for breeding so i guess it is
After you exhaust the prey you have to carry it home alive. Dead meat spoils quickly. You don't want to cut this meat into pieces and carry bloody sacks with you, attracting predators with the smell of blood. So the animal would be tied to a spear pole and two men would carry the pole on their shoulders or would carry it with both arms at their waist. Large prey would be tied to two spears and then 4 men would carry the animal home. Men also had to be strong to fight against predators. We didn't hunt bears, but occasionally a bear would be encountered. The biggest men would protect the hunting party against these bears. Sometimes just by scaring the animal away by extending their arms and appearing as large as possible. Other times they'd actually have to spear a bear and kill it. These men would take souvenirs like a paw, maybe skin the animal for it's fur and the souvenirs would be status symbols.
>Shouldn't our optimal form be otter mode if this was the case?
Yes, and it is
Running prey to exhaustion is based off of shitskins in Mexico and it isn’t the case for most humans, it’s a lot more likely that we trapped animals in corners be them artificial like fire or physical like a mountainside or lake.
when will manlets ever learn