When trying to build as much muscle as possible, should I worry about getting the most amount of amino acids possible in a given day? Or as long as I have reached 100% of the recommended daily intake it doesn't matter anymore and I should just worry about hitting the protein goal no matter the source?
What about specific ratios, are there any amino acids I should specifically try to maximize and eat as much of as I can and others that are potentially harmful? I hear in the Ray Peat communities that Tryptophan is bad for you and they recommend taking Beef Gelatin but whenever I search for Beef Gelatin as a protein source in muscle building forums they all mention it is an incomplete protein so it isn't good for you.
Keep in mind my goal here is to build the most amount of muscle and strength possible.
i would suggest moving your phonetic vomit to /qa/ or /qtddtot/
Only beef and eggs matter
just eat enough complete proteins. add luecine if you want.
Unless if you are doing steroids and insulin dont think too much about amino acids and just eat meat or drink whey protein. Gelatin is literally just collagen so it's good for your joints and tendons but doesnt do much for muscle growth. Also why tf is tryptophan bad
Tryptophan is a precursor to serotonin
When an inflammatory disease (eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome) was noticed in people using tryptophan tablets (1989-90), there was an intense campaign to exonerate the tryptophan itself by blaming the reaction on an impurity in one company's product. But the syndrome didn't occur only in the people who used that company's product, and similar changes can be produced by a high-tryptophan diet (Gross, et al., 1999).
Hans Selye showed that the injection of serotonin caused muscular dystrophy. Subsequent studies suggest that serotonin excess is involved in both muscular and nervous dystrophy or degeneration. (O'Steen, 1967; Narukami, et al., 1991; Hanna and Peat, 1989.)
The fatigue produced by “over-training” is probably produced by a tryptophan and serotonin overload, resulting from catabolism of muscle proteins and stress-induced increases in serotonin. Muscle catabolism also releases a large amount of cysteine, and cysteine, methionine, and tryptophan suppress thyroid function (Carvalho, et al., 2000). Stress also liberates free fatty acids from storage, and these fatty acids increase the uptake of tryptophan into the brain, increasing the formation of serotonin. Since serotonin increases ACTH and cortisol secretion, the catabolic state tends to be self-perpetuating. This process is probably a factor influencing the rate of aging, and contributing to the physiological peculiarities of aging and depression.
Malnutrition, and specifically protein deficiency, produces an inflammatory state that involves extreme serotonin dominance. Stress or malnutrition prenatally or in infancy leads to extreme serotonin dominance in adulthood. Other functions of tryptophan are reduced, as more of it is turned into serotonin.
Decreasing tryptophan or decreasing serotonin improves learning and alertness, while increased serotonin impairs learning.
When rats were fed a diet completely lacking tryptophan for a short period, or a diet containing only one fourth of the “normal” amount for a more prolonged period, the results were surprising: They kept the ability to reproduce up to the age of 36 months (versus 17 months for the rats on the usual diet), and both their average longevity and their maximum longevity increased significantly.
On the tryptophan-poor diet, the amount of serotonin in the brain decreased. When brain serotonin decreases, the level of testosterone in male animals increases. More than 20 years ago, a chemical (p-chlorophenylalanine) that inhibits serotonin synthesis was found to tremendously increase libido.
In old age, the amount of serotonin in the brain increases. This undoubtedly is closely related to the relative inability to turn off cortisol production that is characteristic of old age (Sapolsky and Donnelly, 1985). Hypothyroidism increases the formation of serotonin, as does cortisol (Henley, et al., 1997, 1998; Neckers and Sze, 1976).
The metabolic rate and ability to regulate body temperature are increased by early tryptophan deprivation. (Ashley and Curzon, 1981; Segall and Timiras, 1975.)
An excess of tryptophan early in life, stress, or malnutrition, activates the system for converting tryptophan into serotonin, and that tendency persists into adulthood, modifying pituitary function, and increasing the incidence of pituitary and other cancers.
Serotonin's contribution to high blood pressure is well established. It activates the adrenal cortex both directly and through activation of the pituitary. It stimulates the production of both cortisol and aldosterone. It also activates aldosterone secretion by way of the renin-angiotensin system. Angiotensin is an important promoter of inflammation, and contributes to the degeneration of blood vessels with aging and stress. It can also promote estrogen production.
Joint health can be very important for roiding, when your muscles grow faster than your joints and tendons.
Also having larger amounts of tendons and collagen also provides some bulk that will look good.
Having a minimalist collagen look doesn't look good at all.
Traditional diets have about 50% of the meat intake as gelatin because you and every other animal is about 50% gelatin. Gelatin is extremely important in your body and for making you feel good but it isn't really found in muscle. So yes you should eat plenty of gelatin so that your joints, bones, skin, and brain are all healthy, but it won't contribute to your muscles much. Although a ratio of amino acids high in tryptophan does raise estrogen. I would say eat as much as possible because you probably won't hit 50%. But as a start try to have 10 g of gelatin with every serving of meat and see how that makes you feel. Maybe whip up a pan sauce with plenty of gelatin, you will get a thick, delicious sauce to go with your steak
Peat talks about this in two articles better than I can: one about tryptophan and one on gelatin. Just go to his articles page and search for both terms. It is really worth it to actually read the articles instead of just asking specific questions or using forums.
Underrated picture comment.
This is inherently false and you made it up
How much is 10g gelatin in powder form or is it the same? Because it seems too little it would only be 35 calories worth.
I'm having a hard time finding it in supermarkets so I wanted to order beef gelatin powder online. Im from the Balkans, would you say this is a good source?
https://www.youherbit.com/product/beef-gelatine-gelatine-powder-250-bloom/
Yes it is the same, it's just very low in calories. That brand looks good, I use beef gelatin powder primarily too right now but the brand I use doesn't ship internationally sorry
What's false?
has the sources. Eating more gelatin provided one of the most noticeable changes in my overall mood and energy level of everything I have tried.
>What's false?
When an inflammatory disease (eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome) was noticed in people using tryptophan tablets (1989-90), there was an intense campaign to exonerate the tryptophan itself by blaming the reaction on an impurity in one company's product. But the syndrome didn't occur only in the people who used that company's product, and similar changes can be produced by a high-tryptophan diet (Gross, et al., 1999).
Hans Selye showed that the injection of serotonin caused muscular dystrophy. Subsequent studies suggest that serotonin excess is involved in both muscular and nervous dystrophy or degeneration. (O'Steen, 1967; Narukami, et al., 1991; Hanna and Peat, 1989.)
The fatigue produced by “over-training” is probably produced by a tryptophan and serotonin overload, resulting from catabolism of muscle proteins and stress-induced increases in serotonin. Muscle catabolism also releases a large amount of cysteine, and cysteine, methionine, and tryptophan suppress thyroid function (Carvalho, et al., 2000). Stress also liberates free fatty acids from storage, and these fatty acids increase the uptake of tryptophan into the brain, increasing the formation of serotonin. Since serotonin increases ACTH and cortisol secretion, the catabolic state tends to be self-perpetuating. This process is probably a factor influencing the rate of aging, and contributing to the physiological peculiarities of aging and depression.
Malnutrition, and specifically protein deficiency, produces an inflammatory state that involves extreme serotonin dominance. Stress or malnutrition prenatally or in infancy leads to extreme serotonin dominance in adulthood. Other functions of tryptophan are reduced, as more of it is turned into serotonin.
Decreasing tryptophan or decreasing serotonin improves learning and alertness, while increased serotonin impairs learning.
has the sources
Nothing in any of those posts shows that "traditional" diets are 50% gelatin, because they aren't. Do native americans eat a "traditional" diet? Its mostly corn, beans and squash, what about the traditional Asian or African diet? Mostly plants. Etc etc.
Please reread what I said you illiterate moron
>Traditional diets have about 50% OF THE MEAT INTAKE as gelatin
Native Americans are famous for using the whole animal. Asian and African diets include feet, hooves, fins, tails, skin, etc, and also use the whole animal. Same with old European diets. Despite some of these farming communities eating majority plants, when they do eat meat it is around 50% gelatin.
But since you brought it up, truly traditional diets (hunter-gatherer diets) are more than 50% meat on average. And these are all low-latitude, tropical hunter-gatherers whereas it's believed temperate hunter-gatherers had a diet even higher in meat.
>veganschizo has entered the chat
I'm arguing that you should eat skin, feet, tails, etc (or at least add some gelatin powder to your diet) instead of chicken breast for every meal moron
>no, you're not allowed to eat protein!
>Try some off this organic hemp instead!
You vegans have no branes
amino acids are a meme, only total protein matters, regardless of source
>whenever I search for Beef Gelatin as a protein source in muscle building forums they all mention it is an incomplete protein so it isn't good for you.
Bodybuilders are fricking morons though.
Yes, collagen is an incomplete protein, but over 30% of your body's dry mass is collagen. Its the primary structural protein in the human body, up to 10% of your muscles are collagen, as well as your tendons and ligaments.
Sure but cant we just build that on our own instead of eating other animals collagen
No because we can't synthesize glycine near anywhere fast enough, and collagen is like 30% composed of glycine and even high protein diets won't have enough glycine compared to just eating gelatin, and so we progressively lose collagen density as we age.
But supplementing collagen seems to have lots of claims of reversing that.
Ok well I guess I will buy some beef gelatin powder then and eat a scoop a day or something
Beef gelatin is great, you can simply pair it with like an egg or small amount of dairy, or even a banana. Steve Reeves used gelatin over any other protein supplement daily through his bodybuilding and acting careers. Just be careful about the source, make sure it's tested for heavy metals or grown organically if possible.
Don't stress over this. When in doubt consoom less as it increases AAU (amino acid utilization)
Do you know any good source in EU?
Afraid not anon, I'm sure the quality is better overall due to regulations, you can probably buy normgroid cheaper stuff and it be lead free.
>whenever I search for Beef Gelatin as a protein source in muscle building forums they all mention it is an incomplete protein so it isn't good for you.
The research on "complete protein" was done for the purposes of preventing malnutrition in (mostly vegan) third world countries in a low calorie diet.
It isn't applicable to bodybuilding, although because it helps sell protein powders, marketers have convinced most people that it does matter.
Read Ray Peat's article on gelatin.
Eat several pounds of gelatin per year and see how you feel.
Personally I love it and think it is very healthy for skin and collagen and joint health - but you need to eat several pounds per year to reap the benefits, and the tissues take a long time to grow.
Peat says gelatin contains a lot of anti-stress amino acids, and I have noticed that in stressful situations, or certain fasted situations, I will feel the release of stored gelatin amino acids, as I can taste the characteristic taste when it happens. So I have to agree with Dr Peat on this that it does have anti-stress benefits.
What else does Peat say?
Avoid pufa, consume gelatin, sugar, aspirin, salt good for you, what else?
I eat pork rinds as my collagen source. Tasty, cheap, and surprisingly very filling.
Never had them before, seems tasty. What do they feel like anon
Crunchy, but poofy. Just buy a bag. If you hate them, you're out like 2 bucks.
Ive never seen them here anon im from the balkans
The ones Mexicans make that are full of fat and meat are delicious
Not important bro. You can eat cheap plant protein that's poor in important aminos and be healthy. You vill eat ze plants and you vill be hapy
>100% of the recommended daily intake
Lmao imagine letting the government decide your protein intake
Imagine believing government health orgs care for your wellbeing