Is CICO true?

Is CICO true?

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  1. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >here's a study
    >here's all the things about it that i like/agree with my world view so we'll assume them to be true and accurate and unbiased
    >however they came to the wrong conclusion because they are not as clever as me so that part is wrong (all the other stuff is right though because it agrees with my world view)
    >here is my explanation backed up by a random youtube video that proves these morons are wrong (except about the stuff I need them to be right about because it supports my world view)
    lmao

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      What's so hard to accept that CICO doesn't fully capture the full picture of the digestive process and that you have to factor in hormones too?

      You seriously think that eating purely 2000 calories of fries a day will have the same outcome as 2000 calories of steak a day? Kys dumbass

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        NTA, but it's equally facetious to ignore the role that overall energy intake (measured in calories) has on hormones.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        If someone's TDEE is higher than 2000 then they will lose weight. If it is lower then they will gain weight. Sorry fatty. Fork putdowns are your only option.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        was just pointing out the hilarious and blatant flaw in your logic not commenting on the content

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        It's good enough you fat homosexual. There is no need to dive further into it. If you want to lose weight just eat less energy

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          Eating less doesn't work. Especially if you try to eat less dietary fat instead of cutting carbs.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Weird how its always worked without exception

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              Why do you believe there is an obesity epidemic?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Because people like you pivot instead of directly addressing facts

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                The answer is because people were tricked into believing CICO.

                As belief in CICO increased so did the obesity epidemic. Because CICO is a lie. Thinking calories matter causes obesity.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                have a nice day fatso

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Obesity is really easy to cure for anyone who understands that calories are a lie.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >The answer is because people were tricked into believing CICO
                Do you believe that Everyone counts calories then

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Everyone generally believes in the calorie psyop. Belief in the relevance of calories makes it impossible to lose weight, because calorie estimates are not actually relevant.

                Once you stop believing the calorie hoax it becomes extremely easy to lose weight and keep it off forever.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Of course you didn't answer the question

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                What do you think the first thing people do when they try to lose weight is? Of course they try calorie counting. Then they fail.

                Some people are so brainwashed they blame themselves instead of the failed diet. Like jabboids who get coronavirus infections saying
                >imagine how much worse it would be if I wasn't vaccinated!

                Some smart people figure out CICO is a hoax and then they manage to lose weight successfully and keep it off long term.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        It isn't hard to accept. I just treat it like upper and lower bounds and use it to guage my hunger relative to what I ate. Low satiety for high calories = trash. High satiety for low calories = good but probably not really being digested well.
        High satiety for mid range calories = target foods. Wouldn't you know it, that comes out to lots of meat, good vegetables on the side, very few starchy carbs like beans and rice, almost no refined carbs like American bread or sugar. A small amount of fresh or frozen berries is fine

  2. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Yes, cico is the ultimate truth. There has been different diets around the world for ages, some emphasize on carbs, others on fat, etc. The truth is obesity is caused by too many calories. I was shocked by the size of servings in the USA. I was shocked by the size of packages at the supermarket. In my country, chips 99% of the time is 85g packages (eating them all is around 300 calories). Nobody buys bigger than that unless they're having a party with many guests. A lot of food here is really calorie dense (ice cream, pastries, prosciutto, pizza, a shitton of different breads and cheese etc) but the servings would make you starve

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      How do you explain pic related?

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous
        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          Hello moxyte.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Web 2.0, social media, smartphone, netflix penetration, less moving around, walking, dancing and more stuff done online (flirting, shopping etc), more heating/a/c meaning your body doesn't have to work that hard, more office jobs and less blue collar jobs etc.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          >less moving around
          What makes you think this has anything to do with obesity?

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            when i was walking around all day i could eat 3000+ calories easily and not gain weight, i started gaining weight due to moving around less and not adjusting my eating habits, still not fat tho... hope this helps! 🙂

            >Verification not required.

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              And what do you think is causing that?

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            When you burn 4000 calories+ daily and waste so much time walking and also your job requires you to do actual shit instead of sitting in an office stuffing your mouth with food, it's more difficult to get fat

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              What makes you think walking around causes people to burn 4000 kcal/day?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                If you have bmr of about 1800 calories (which is pretty average for a guy), if you walk 20-25000 steps per day plus have a manual job, you're easily getting in the 3500-4000 calories per day range.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                So you believe in Additive DEE? That's a childish fantasy.

                Pic related.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                I don't believe in things. I'm not American. I know that moving will need more energy than being stationary since we have normal public education here.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >I don't believe in things. I'm not American.
                >Believes in the US-invented Atwater System, aka CICO

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Your pic related shows "models" or theories, not tested reality. Yes, some people, if they exercise, will compensate by being more inactive later on, balancing out their total TDEE somewhat.
                It takes anywhere from 2500 to 4000kcal to run a marathon. Adding on the calorie burn from basic metabolic processes means that the day you run a marathon, you must have burned anywhere from 4000-6000kcal total.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                What makes you think the women from Westerp's half-marathon study are theoretical?

                What makes you think the mice in the 28 day study are theoretical?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                *Westerterp's

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Go ahead and read the Westerterp study. I did. It shows that the participants raised their daily energy expenditure. I'm not sure how the authors of that picture arrived at that graph - it's certainly not present in the original paper.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah that's right, people working in warehouses 12 hours a day burn the same amount as a person at a cubicle

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Yes.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Lol ok

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                If you disagree you are a biology denier.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            is this bait?

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              Why would moving around change the amount of energy your body can generate?

              The organ which uses the most energy in the body is the brain. Nobody ever suggests reading a book to cure obesity. Why is that?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Nobody ever suggests reading a book to cure obesity. Why is that?
                Reading isn’t a compound exercise

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >What makes you think this has anything to do with obesity?
            Not him but exercise has been used for millenia for weight los, MUCH longer than calories are even known. Check out Galen, Ibn Sina, Hippocrates, etc.

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              I searched for Hippocrates statements on obesity and it all seems to be taken out of context and misrepresented by modern authors.

              The first diet book in history was a low-carb diet book.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >I searched for Hippocrates statements on obesity and it all seems to be taken out of context and misrepresented by modern authors.
                >The first diet book in history was a low-carb diet book.
                You're American, aren't you? Banting's diet wasn't low carb either, btw, he ate toast and fruit. Just saying.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                The Banting diet was explicitly low-carb.

                For general population worse. But those who wanted to lose weight all made it by simply going to the gym and eating less

                Nobody actually succeeded unless they were doing Atkins.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                I did. Just to get a perspective, I was eating only fruits for dinner. I lost 15kg in just a few months and stopped being overweight

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Post body.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous
              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >no timestamp
                It goes without saying but that means your photo is fake.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                The previous pic was actually in the summer, so ignore the hair. I can't take a better pic now, I'm not home.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                https://i.imgur.com/UdYknsd.jpg

                https://i.imgur.com/y5pgOeR.png

                https://i.imgur.com/KYg9a6K.png

                Yes. I struggled with obesity until I learned about keto. It's also very good for mental health. Zero carb carnivore is even better than keto.

                Its always all talk and no timestamp

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                What? Didn't you notice the little paper with the date? Don't you think that's enough proof? Let's have an honest conversation instead of that please

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                The are no papers with the current date in any of those pics

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Do you have an insulin pump or colostomy bag?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Nope, don't have such issues sorry. I don't eat any sweets though and no soda, only fruits and veggies. I'm not vegan/vegetarian though, I eat lots of eggs, meat and fish too

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                I wasn't trying to insult you. It looks like you have a tube on your right side coming out of your lower abdomen and then in the follow up pic its covered with a patch or something

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                You mean the piece of paper with the date written on? I could remove that but I ain't taking any more pics sorry.

                I would be interested to seeing your bodies too

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >You mean the piece of paper with the date written on
                Its completely illegible. It looks like a patch. This is what km talking about, picrel
                >I would be interested to seeing your bodies too
                stop being combafive it was a question. I didn't call you unfit

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                You mean the piece of paper with the date written on? I could remove that but I ain't taking any more pics sorry.

                I would be interested to seeing your bodies too

                I'm*
                Combative*

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Ok, here's what it is. I understand you are curious, no offense taken, don't worry. It's just a stupid soccer toy.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Oh haha okay my bad. Looked like some kind of tube. You look well by the way

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                What does that have to do with CICO?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                What are you talking about

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        If the average age is 38, how can people be dying of old age?

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        How did they obtain the total energy intake data? Did they directly track the caloric intake of this sample population over the years, or did they just give people a diet survey and say "be honest"?

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          its an unsourced twitter image showing a google docs graph with absolutely no context
          its guaranteed to be utter bullshit

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            How did they obtain the total energy intake data? Did they directly track the caloric intake of this sample population over the years, or did they just give people a diet survey and say "be honest"?

            Its one guy. He's silos for shawn baker and posts the same pics and same replies over and over. He called people who disagrees with him leftist vegans. He's never posted body with timestamp and he is in every single cico and carnivore thread. Stop replying to him

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              How did they obtain the total energy intake data? Did they directly track the caloric intake of this sample population over the years, or did they just give people a diet survey and say "be honest"?

              its an unsourced twitter image showing a google docs graph with absolutely no context
              its guaranteed to be utter bullshit

              Simps for*

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        CICO is a simplification. You don't actually know how much you burn, that's why you use a margin of error and adjust. If you start by eating 2200 a day for a month and you lose 1 pound, try eating 1800 for a month.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      /thread

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        These seem like good links. I am already starting to watch them. Will bookmark them all.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >cico is the ultimate truth
      not a cult btw

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      CICO is modulated by hormones, simply look at male vs female fat storage etc. Or, more to the point, put men's testosterone back to 1950s levels and then see what the same CICO looks like, because it will be completely different.

  3. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Calories are a man-made imaginary unit meant to be used in physics, they can't be used for anything biological (bioavailability, micronutrient, genetics, intolerances....) CICO is a cult.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/eIJLcU7.png

      Hello moxyte.

      https://i.imgur.com/Lix6198.png

      How do you explain pic related?

      Lmao at this dumb Black person still spamming this shit every fricking minute of the day for months on end.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Please explain why CICO isn't basically an MLM at this point

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          Because those things have absolutely nothing in common

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Perhaps the powdered food, being partially pre-digested, was absorbed better?
      Bingo, though it should be said, "partially" is a major euphamism here. Powdered food is virtually 100% digested.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Powdered food is virtually 100% digested.
        brb powdering all my food to extract more calories to save money on buying food.

  4. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Did they have a way to measure absorption of the food? Perhaps the powdered food, being partially pre-digested, was absorbed better? In such case, it is still CICO.

  5. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    It's surface area.
    Powdered carbs vs whole food carbs have a much higher surface area and don't require chewing or as much enzymatic activity to digest and absorb.

    Imagine eating 200g of raw potato vs 200g of mashed potato. Same calories, but your body spends much more energy chewing and digesting raw potato and mashed potato.
    This doesn't disprove CICO, it just demonstrates that food texture affects CICO via modulating the thermic effect.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      How do you know it isn't just a hormonal effect?

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        It's both. Because powdered/blended foods are very rapidly absorbed compared to whole/raw/natural foods, they will induce an exaggerated hormonal response because even though the same total amount of calories are in the meal, they are absorbed more rapidly, causing a sharper increase in blood concentration of sugar, lipids, etc.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Insulin injection spot fat gain is because insulin shuttles in nutrition in blood into the fat cells, so because he had locally extreme insulin levels those cells were superabsorbent. But nutrition in the blood isn't infinite so it's doubtful whether the total overall fat mass increases. We know protein increases insulin secretion but it's at the same time both satiating and antiobesogenic.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          Insulin causes obesity independent from calories eaten. Pic related.

          See also:

          https://i.imgur.com/6CRsriH.png

          You can lose weight by lowering insulin. You can gain weight by raising insulin.

          It's just calorie theory which is false. Hormonal theory is still correct.

          https://i.imgur.com/uidsgZx.png

          What if you are given a drip feed of insulin? Then what would happen?

          Pic related.

          https://i.imgur.com/kMGMnmW.png

          no u

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >pic related
            https://www.asean-endocrinejournal.org/index.php/JAFES/article/view/178/653
            >Since then, she has had recurrent episodes of dizziness, disorientation, incoherence, hunger pangs, cold sweats, palpitations and tremors. She developed the frequent urge to eat and she learned to avoid these symptoms by eating every 2 hours. She progressively gained weight as a result.
            Which makes sense right, since blood sugar levels are important for keeping you alive, if you suck loads of sugar into your cells you become hypoglycemic. Also, if you don't eat more than usual, you might maintain blood sugar levels through cortisol, which is obesogenic (see cushings). The key should be a diet which appropriately keeps you feeling satiated and energized while in a caloric deficit.

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              Yes, the cure for obesity is a low-carb diet.

              However people with an insulinoma should get that treated first. Weight loss would likely be impossible with permanently high insulin.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >the cure for obesity is a low-carb diet
                Not really

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Yes, really. Overwhelming scientific evidence demonstrates that low-carb is the most effective diet.

                Pic related.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Nah, people have always eaten carby diets. Medical science is fake and gay so your dumb little infographics don't mean squat

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                As long as people have been eating carbs they have known that carbs cause obesity.

                >I have personally observed for two or three years men, who were foregoing starches, and in general their bodies were slight and their complexions good. They could withstand wind, cold, heat, or dampness, but there was not a fat one among them.
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigu_(grain_avoidance)

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous
              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Short memory?:

                https://i.imgur.com/Vw0ET2Q.png

                Yes, really. Overwhelming scientific evidence demonstrates that low-carb is the most effective diet.

                Pic related.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Weight loss isn't health

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Good observation. A healthy diet will restore you to health whatever your starting point is. That means it should cause weight gain in underweight people, and weight loss in overweight people. As well as curing diseases like type 2 diabetes.

                Animal-based keto and/or carnivore diets are the healthiest possible.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Animal-based keto and/or carnivore diets are the healthiest possible.
                Do you have personal experience?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Yes. I struggled with obesity until I learned about keto. It's also very good for mental health. Zero carb carnivore is even better than keto.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Would you care to post your body with a timestamp?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous
              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >with a timestamp.
                >digs out same old tired screencap
                Sigh alright I'll just assume you're fat I guess.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                https://i.imgur.com/KYg9a6K.png

                Yes. I struggled with obesity until I learned about keto. It's also very good for mental health. Zero carb carnivore is even better than keto.

                *crickets*

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >people in the process of weight loss are fat
                Ketoschizo really is scum

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Doing CICO isn't a "process of weight loss". It's a process of destroying your metabolism and slyrocketing your hunger hormones.

                The end result of CICO is always obesity.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Not really though

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                The same page is about taoist wizards who go decades without eating.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        most insulin induced lipohypertrophy effects happen due to people injecting insulin in the exact same spot every day instead of rotating insulin injection throughout the abdomen and glutes, which is why the recomendation is pic related
        keep coping

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah insulin is a very powerful fat storage hormone. Obese people are hyperinsulinemic.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Imagine eating 200g of raw potato vs 200g of mashed potato. Same calories
      Its not the sane calories. Raw potato is indigestible.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Raw potato is indigestible
        it is?!

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          Yes its called resistant starch because, obviously, the starch resists digestion. Its unavailable for digestion and thus utilization. You'll get a lot of gas if you eat raw potato because your gut bugs will digest it though

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Wait, calories can be different?

        So CICO is false, then?

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          Still being disingenuous I see

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            How so?

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              Answer this question

              Let me ask you a question. At what temperature does water boil,?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                It depends on what scale you are using.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Pick one

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          Let me ask you a question. At what temperature does water boil,?

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          We have only ever cared about calories in digestible food you turboBlack person. No one actually tries to bulk on uranium or chug gas. Despite being 8kcal/gram we can't process charcoal like food don't even try.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Why is it impossible to get fat from protein if CICO is true?

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              Because it isn't impossible. There are well documented biochemical pathways for turning proteins into fat.

  6. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    All diets come down to CICO, since you can not challenge the law of thermodynamics.
    That being said, having done most types of cutting diets, CICO keto OMAD is the best diet for cutting simply because you don't go hungry due to not triggering an intense insulin response. I've done a cut eating nothing but McDonalds and it worked.

  7. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Keto causes cancer

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      CICO causes brainrot. Evidence: this thread.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous
        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          >"fuel"

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Ketones make tumour cells grow, cope

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              Saying that fasting causes cancer is like saying the clotshots are safe and effective.

              >A British man who rejected the standard of care to treat his brain cancer has lived with the typically fatal glioblastoma tumor growing very slowly after adopting a ketogenic diet, providing a case study that researchers say reflects the benefits of using the body's own metabolism to fight this particularly aggressive cancer instead of chemo and radiation therapy.

              >Published recently in the journal Frontiers in Nutrition, the report is the first evaluation of the use of ketogenic metabolic therapy (KMT) without chemo or radiation interventions, on a patient diagnosed with IDH1-mutant glioblastoma (GBM). Ketogenic therapy is a non-toxic nutritional approach, viewed as complementary or alternative, that uses a low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet to manage a range of cancers, including glioblastoma.

              https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-06-case-patient-ketogenic-diet-fully.html

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Pointless, if you could prescribe a healthier lifestyle, 90% of medicine would become unnecessary

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              Saying that fasting causes cancer is like saying the clotshots are safe and effective.

              >A British man who rejected the standard of care to treat his brain cancer has lived with the typically fatal glioblastoma tumor growing very slowly after adopting a ketogenic diet, providing a case study that researchers say reflects the benefits of using the body's own metabolism to fight this particularly aggressive cancer instead of chemo and radiation therapy.

              >Published recently in the journal Frontiers in Nutrition, the report is the first evaluation of the use of ketogenic metabolic therapy (KMT) without chemo or radiation interventions, on a patient diagnosed with IDH1-mutant glioblastoma (GBM). Ketogenic therapy is a non-toxic nutritional approach, viewed as complementary or alternative, that uses a low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet to manage a range of cancers, including glioblastoma.

              https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-06-case-patient-ketogenic-diet-fully.html

              It depends on the particular cancer. They are all different.
              Some tumours can only use ketones for fuel. Some tumours can only use glucose for fuel.
              Some tumours can use either for fuel.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Sure, keto made you so sane that you lurk on IST posting the same wrong shit 24/7.
        Everyone else has brain rot in your reality.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Keto cures cancer as long as you're doing meat and dairy based keto.

      I suppose most plant-based diets probably cause cancer.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/XHqk0eX.jpg

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >mainstream science is garbage
        >my mainstream science says so

  8. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    not reading that shit but the answer is no

  9. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >TDEE is 1850 kcal/day
    >cutting diet set at 2000 kcal/day
    >lifting in the morning consumes 180 kcal (average)
    >cardio in the afternoon (running, swimming or biking) burns no less than 600 kcal on average (mountain biking can go up to 1800 kcal depending on distance)
    I’ve managed to lose 4 kilos in almost 2 months (yes, is very slow) while hitting PRs at the gym and recomping.
    For me it works.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Exercise doesn't increase your TDEE.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Hadza have same energy expenditure because they are manlet DYELs without muscle. Come back when you compare energy expenditure between sedentary underweight person and active strongman champion or sprinter, for now - frick off.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          It is a law of nature that your energy expenditure is constrained by your body size.

          The idea that you can increase your energy expenditure is childish fantasy. It's like believing that if you plug a 100kW item into a 7kW generator the generator will magically create 100kW of energy to match the demand.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >It is a law of nature that your energy expenditure is constrained by your body size.
            Lie. The most sedentary obese people often have lowest energy expenditure despite having largest body mass.
            >It's like believing that if you plug a 100kW item into a 7kW generator the generator will magically create 100kW of energy to match the demand.
            Analogy is not an argument. Post real evidence that physical activity does not increase energy expenditure.

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              Only if they attempt CICO, which suppresses metabolism.

              Sedentary people have the same TDEE as people who walk 8+ hours daily.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                No matter how slow your metabolism are, you still need fixed amount of energy to produce certain amount of force, and since your body does not have infinite energy, physical activity increases energy expenditure. You can't just slow your metabolism to infinity and become a perpetuum mobile. If you can't understand it you are, in fact, moronic.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Physical activity reduces basal metabolism. As you can see by the study you're replying to, where vigorous exercise combined with calorie restriction reduced metabolism by up to -800kcal/day.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Physical activity reduces basal metabolism.
                Proof of causation? And even if It's true it doesen't matter, you can't reduce your metabolism to infinity and become a perpetuum mobile. Physical activity will increase your energy expenditure at the end, there's no way around it.
                >where vigorous exercise combined with calorie restriction reduced metabolism by up to -800kcal/day.
                And the participants still lost weight because they started to spend more energy (regaining it after stoping the regime), what a surprise. Why are you going agains your own arguments? Are you braindead?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >As you can see by the study you're replying to
                >Sources: Obesity; individual contestants
                >By The New York Times
                yeah boy that's some STUDY you have there lmao

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Obesity is a scientific journal.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                facepalm
                >Obesity is the official journal of The Obesity Society and is the premier source of information for increasing knowledge, fostering translational research from basic to population science, and promoting better treatment for people with obesity. Obesity publishes important peer-reviewed research and cutting-edge reviews, commentaries, and public health and medical developments.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Surely this is an unbiased organisation with no vested interest in the assertion that "diet and exercise don't work"

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Physical activity reduces basal metabolism
                Physical activity = active energy expenditure
                Basal metabolism = inactive energy expenditure
                >Active energy expenditure reduces inactive energy expenditure
                Sure, if you use "walking for 15 minutes" as an excuse to sit around doing nothing for the rest of the day.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Oh look a coping fat homosexual. How much do you weigh fatty?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Me on the right.

                I am sure cico will work eventually. It's just a law of physics, right?

                I hate that ketobigot carnifascist so much. Why does he look so much better than me? It's not fair. Anyway I am off to eat bread. Don't worry I will measure it and track it in my food diary.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                guy on the right has a shit ton of loose skin. He probably lost hundreds of lbs. Guy on the left was skinny all his life and is obviously lifting + unlimited calories means lots of muscle gain.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Guy on the left doesn't lift. That's what sedentary means.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                How would you know he doesn't lift? Because the picture says so?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >people always tell the truth on the internet

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Right wing people tell the truth, yes.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                These are all israeli headlines and you are as moronic as the so called "left wingers" you hate for falling for this shit. Left and right mean nothing. Its rich israelites vs the rest of us.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                hilarious that the emaciated skeleton on the left thinks he's impressive

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Idk anon, sounds like you're just a chubby moron and well I'd never trust a fatty, let alone a moronic one.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Your pic doesn't prove what you think it proves.
                If you're asserting that the contestants were using CICO principles during the show, then you concede that they lost weight during the show's run.
                So then they regained weight when they stopped adhering to CICO principles. This doesn't "disprove" CICO.
                The contestants have lower (not slower) metabolism because they have lost muscle mass as a result of their continued sedentary lifestyles. Lower FFM = lower energy expenditure, even at rest.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                They regained weight because that is always what happens with CICO.

                Biology denial has predictably poor results.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Your own picture shows the "Eat less, exercise more" group losing more weight than the "normal diet" group. All the studies you keep posting are based on fat women. Women are really, really bad at following diets and exercising. They are bad at eating the right foods, bad at recollecting what they have eaten, bad at estimating portions, bad at exercising, etc etc etc.
                When I want to gain muscle, I increase my calorie intake. When I want to cut fat, I reduce my calorie intake and exercise more. It works for me. That some people are bad at dieting and exercising and bad at reporting their diet and activity to the people carrying out studies doesn't disprove reality.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Here's the same graph with error bars included. There's no difference in weight by the end of the study.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >The intervention included group and individual sessions to promote a decrease in fat intake and increases in vegetable, fruit, and grain consumption and did not include weight loss or caloric restriction goals.
                >did not include weight loss or caloric restriction goals.
                woops

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                What would happen if one group of people ate unlimited calories and another group of people restricted their calories? Which group would lose more weight?

                HINT: See pic related. Unlimited calorie group loses more weight because weight loss is all about hormones.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Why would you label the intervention group in that picture "Eat Less, Exercise More", when they were neither instructed to exercise more, nor to reduce calorie intake?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                I don't deny that low carb / keto is great for severely overweight people to lose weight.
                That doesn't make it the optimal diet for healthy people.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Optimal diet for all humans is carnivore. Humans are apex predators. Eating bird seed is harmful.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Answer the question you disingenuous liar

                Why would you label the intervention group in that picture "Eat Less, Exercise More", when they were neither instructed to exercise more, nor to reduce calorie intake?

                https://i.imgur.com/Ohggrar.png

                [...]
                [...]
                Imagine adding fake labels (Eat Less, Exercise More) to your pictures to try and win internet points.
                The intervention group did not have calorie restriction goals OR instructions to exercise more. How dishonest of you.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                What's the goal behind a low-fat diet? Weight gain?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Yes.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Touche.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >>The intervention included group and individual sessions to promote a decrease in fat intake and increases in vegetable, fruit, and grain consumption and did not include weight loss or caloric restriction goals.
                >did not include weight loss or caloric restriction goals.
                You labelled the intervention group " eat less, exercise more." They were not instructed to eat less / reduce calories or to exercise more. You are a liar.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                https://i.imgur.com/GeAUUDu.jpg

                Here's the same graph with error bars included. There's no difference in weight by the end of the study.

                https://i.imgur.com/rqWHbds.png

                They regained weight because that is always what happens with CICO.

                Biology denial has predictably poor results.

                Imagine adding fake labels (Eat Less, Exercise More) to your pictures to try and win internet points.
                The intervention group did not have calorie restriction goals OR instructions to exercise more. How dishonest of you.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Women are really, really bad at following diets and exercising. They are bad at eating the right foods, bad at recollecting what they have eaten, bad at estimating portions, bad at exercising
                Why?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Everyone is. Not just women.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                When people have correct information they tend to succeed.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/rnfca0a.jpg

        It is a law of nature that your energy expenditure is constrained by your body size.

        The idea that you can increase your energy expenditure is childish fantasy. It's like believing that if you plug a 100kW item into a 7kW generator the generator will magically create 100kW of energy to match the demand.

        https://i.imgur.com/ZdIzbk6.jpg

        Only if they attempt CICO, which suppresses metabolism.

        Sedentary people have the same TDEE as people who walk 8+ hours daily.

        If your point was true people could never lose or gain weight

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          You can lose weight by lowering insulin. You can gain weight by raising insulin.

          It's just calorie theory which is false. Hormonal theory is still correct.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >You can lose weight by lowering insulin. You can gain weight by raising insulin.
            Explain the potato diet

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              It lowers insulin by swapping powdered carbs for solid carbs.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                You've explained nothing. Potatoes are very high GI

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Read OP image.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >repeating the same thing
                I accept your concession

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Potatoes are eaten unpowdered.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >repeating the same thing
                I accept your concession

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Powdered carbs create a different hormonal response to unpowdered carbs.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                https://i.imgur.com/g9s2saL.jpg

                You've explained nothing. Potatoes are very high GI

  10. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Yes, CICO is true. Anyone who disagrees is a fat gay trying to cope. Simple as.

  11. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    brb gonna bulk to 300 lbs on 1000kcal/day
    thanks for enlightening me op

  12. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    are these bot threads at this point?

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      We're all just clown bots in an amazing digital circus...

  13. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Of course it is
    3k McDonalds calories = 3k lentils calories
    Absolutely no difference

  14. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    israelite-O

  15. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    You can tell that ketogays are likely fat because they ask questions like "would 2000 calories of candy and hot pockets have the same effect as 2000 calories of steak?" A ton of people have lived the life of being skinny with shit diets. That's actually the vast majority of skinny people. That was the majority of skinny ISTizens. Back when IST was good, we would laugh at people who tried to 'dirty bulk' but wouldn't gain weight. They thought that eating a couple of slices of pizza per day would be enough to gain weight, but they would fail because that would be all they ate, and IST understood CICO back then.

  16. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Ignore the ketoschizo. When he gets bored of everyone ignoring him in /fat/ he starts trolling the whole board with his homosexualry and blatant samegayging as seen in the OP image.

  17. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    I promise you if I locked your stupid fatfrick ass in a room with nothing but a sink and a toilet for three months, you would have lost about 100lb when I let you out. CICO doesn't have to be exact or precise. If you have trouble losing weight, just eat less fricking food.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Fasting is ketogenic.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Fine. Once a day every day you would be dispensed one complimentary cookie, just to spike your insulin. You'd lose only 95 lbs then, but I'm willing to acquiesce that since it will make me even more correct in an internet argument.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          What if you are given a drip feed of insulin? Then what would happen?

          Pic related.

  18. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Relying on anything other than CICO is cope. Ultimately, if you need to, you can always CICO

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Relying on anything other than CICO is cope
      not a cult btw

  19. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    If you think CICO doesn't work on you, just stop eating and see if you lose weight. Easy to verify or refute.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Fasting isn't CICO.

      Pic related is CICO. The central premise of CICO is that the spoonful of sugar is less fattening than tomatoes. If it isn't true (it isn't) then CICO is false (it is false).

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Fasting isn't CICO.
        Yes it is. Its CO

  20. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    burning energy is a complex hormonal process. CICO is equivilent to comparing the energy outbut of a 2kg burning log vs a 1 kg log that isnt burning

  21. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Keto doesn't work

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Keto works better than any other diet.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        But I like to lift and I need carbs for that.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          Meta analysis shows carbs have zero benefit for lifting.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Meta analysis shows shawn bakers test is in the toilet, he's diabetic, me lost his medical liscence for violating ethics codes, lies about conflicts of interest on studies hes a part of, and he sells beef and supplements

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              >Meta analysis shows shawn bakers test is in the toilet, he's diabetic, me lost his medical liscence for violating ethics codes, lies about conflicts of interest on studies hes a part of, and he sells beef and supplements

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous
              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                You morons still post this? T levels fluctuate highly. U can be anywhere from 700 - 200 on any given day, the graph below is the israeliteguys is incorrect and gay too

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                They also post that old blood test instead of his newer blood test.

                Vegans are very dishonest people.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Kek this isn't the own you think it is

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Total testosterone doesn't mean anything in regards to androgenicity. About 98% of the testosterone in the body doesn't do anything except float around the bloodstream.
                And it doesn't take into account androgen receptor sensitivity and overall genetics. You can put the same fuel in a honda civic and a ferrari f40, which one will go faster?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >About 98% of the testosterone in the body doesn't do anything except float around the bloodstream.
                >And it doesn't take into account androgen receptor sensitivity and overall genetics.
                So test means nothing? Oookay.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Total testosterone doesn't mean anything in regards to androgenicity
                Okay so his test is low, and
                >About 98% of the testosterone in the body doesn't do anything except float around the bloodstream
                That mean his effective test is EXTREMELY low. Again, not a good look
                >You can put the same fuel in a honda civic and a ferrari f40, which one will go faster?
                This aphorism isn't applicable here

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Total testosterone doesn't mean anything in regards to androgenicity. About 98% of the testosterone in the body doesn't do anything except float around the bloodstream.
                And it doesn't take into account androgen receptor sensitivity and overall genetics. You can put the same fuel in a honda civic and a ferrari f40, which one will go faster?

                Look I get you want your diet of choice to look good, but shawn is such a conman you should really drop him as an example. He claimed that his bloodwork would be great and then when it came back that he was diabetic, he literally said the numbers mean nothing because his red blood cells live 3 times longer than everyone else's like how can you vouch for this guy

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              Its so sad yeah this is true

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Meta analysis shows shawn bakers test is in the toilet, he's diabetic, me lost his medical liscence for violating ethics codes, lies about conflicts of interest on studies hes a part of, and he sells beef and supplements

                Oof

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              If his test is in the toilet, how is he so strong and manly looking. It doesn't make sense.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                No idea, but he posted his bloodwork and his health is crap

  22. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    I doubt you're a higher dimensional being with control over entropy/time, therefore, CICO is true.

  23. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >insulin is a fat storage hormone

    WRONG

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      no u

  24. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >ketogays are closer to rats than humans
    checks out

  25. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >is 1+1=2 true?
    frick off moron

  26. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    I look forward to OP dying of heart disease.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Heart disease is caused by carbs.

  27. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    im convinced all the CICO deniers is just one moronic homosexual that had to repeat math classes in gradeschool

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      CICO is biology denial.

  28. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >fatfricks will do anything and believe anything instead of making a lifestyle change of simply eating less and moving more

  29. 3 months ago
    Anonymous
    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Vegan logo in top left.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        he admits it's real

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          You know it is fake.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Cope

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous
              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                ?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Is one guy. he zooms in on pics and tries to claim they are shopped. He's a baker apologist and he's in every single thread that mentions him

                https://i.imgur.com/81B2jyX.png

                What do you think the first thing people do when they try to lose weight is? Of course they try calorie counting. Then they fail.

                Some people are so brainwashed they blame themselves instead of the failed diet. Like jabboids who get coronavirus infections saying
                >imagine how much worse it would be if I wasn't vaccinated!

                Some smart people figure out CICO is a hoax and then they manage to lose weight successfully and keep it off long term.

                You still aren't answering the question. The point you are making assumes that people got fat in the first place because they were counting calories. Its absolute nonsense. You think the 600 pound people on scooters were counting calories and eating below maintenance?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                It's clearly shopped. Just try asking the vegan for the source of his photoshopped images. Real photos have sources.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                OK bud

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                https://i.imgur.com/81B2jyX.png

                What do you think the first thing people do when they try to lose weight is? Of course they try calorie counting. Then they fail.

                Some people are so brainwashed they blame themselves instead of the failed diet. Like jabboids who get coronavirus infections saying
                >imagine how much worse it would be if I wasn't vaccinated!

                Some smart people figure out CICO is a hoax and then they manage to lose weight successfully and keep it off long term.

                Still waiting for your Answer

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                When the calorie psyop was adopted by the US government, food manufacturers changed their foods to be low-fat. This causes obesity because fat is satiating but carbs are not satiating. Pic related.

                People who notice they are getting obese try to eat less, because they fell for the calorie psyop themselves. Traditional wisdom was to cut out sweets and starches. Sugar Information Inc made sure people lost their traditional method of weight control.

                This causes weight to spiral out of control. All as a result of the calorie hoax.

                Do you think people who end up 600-lbs never tried dieting? Of course they did. CICO doesn't work so their diets inevitably fail and they end up fatter than when they started.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Oh okay, still not answering the question

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            For sure why would a diabetic meat salesman who lies on studies and lost his medical license ever possibly mislead people

  30. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    I remember back in the 90s things were simple, if you wanted to lose weight you'd just hit the gym and don't eat so much food. When did the world became so insane?

    >muh keto! Don't eat the salad it will make you fat with all that carbs!
    >le healthy at every size!
    >muh genes can't make me thin!
    >muh hormones

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      So in the 90s they reversed the obesity epidemic? Or did it keep getting worse?

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        For general population worse. But those who wanted to lose weight all made it by simply going to the gym and eating less

  31. 3 months ago
    Anonymous
    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Here's your (You), moxyte. It's funny to see you on the periphery of this conversation getting very upset by it.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Keto causes cancer

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          You already said that in this thread, moxyte.

          See:

          https://i.imgur.com/7VvpMTP.jpg

          Keto cures cancer as long as you're doing meat and dairy based keto.

          I suppose most plant-based diets probably cause cancer.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous
  32. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    How bad is american education that people can't understand there's several effects at play at the same time lmao

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      How much cope to foreigners have that they think about america 24/7

  33. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    You can always lose weight if you lower calories enough, but with shitty hormones you need to lower them more.

  34. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    So what you're saying is, I should be eating baked potates instead of mashed?
    Damn, I love me some mashed taters.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah if you're eating carbs you have to chew them yourself to avoid messing up your hormones.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Weird how people that ate bread built society and lived into their 90s

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          Bread used to be fermented. Microbes eat the carbs and upgrade the nutrition.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            It still is idk what bread you are buying

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              Only sourdough is fermented.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Nothing. I said was wrong

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Modern sourdough is not fermented as long as traditional sourdough. And most bread isn't sourdough anyway.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Nothing I said was wrong

  35. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    No. Your body generates calories out of nothingness. That’s why
    >people
    who eat only 500 calories a day still somehow get fat. It’s also why diets don’t work. It’s not because the fatass breaks down and rewards herself for losing 5 lbs after shitting by eating 20000 calories. It’s because CICO is a myth.

  36. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Yes. Simple shit, if you eat more than your body expends, you will get fatter.
    Now, you can go back to discussing your gay ass meme diets where you falsely believe you can "eat as much as you want" on it and only lose fat.

  37. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    worst thread on IST

  38. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    How are threads like this always spammed by this one guy obsessed with his meme diet? What mental illness possesses someone to do this?

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Keto/carnivore people are literally worse than stoners when it comes to constantly talking about their thing

  39. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    I do think its true for the most part but I also feel like I lose mass insanely fast if I don't keep up with my eating. Been trying to bulk for some time now and I gained about 12 pounds over the last few months. This week there were about 3 days where I ate at or slightly below maintenance and somehow I've lost 5 pounds. Feels kinda shitty to lose that much progress so fast.

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