is it pointless to even attempt to integrate into society until you've made it? The male life is defined by success and competition, no one gives a shit about your unless you've made it. Women, men, etc. No one wants anything to do with you unless you're attractive and successful. and even then barely anyone gives a shit about you. Is this why we see more and more men dropping out of society? They realize there is no point if you aren't at the top?
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> there is no point in being in society unless your'e the 1% defined by corporate hivemind
That's what they what you think, that you are nothing of value. Once you have little to no self value it's easier to extract resources from you.
>The male life is defined
Stopped reading there, I'm a man and I define my own life. I dont play moronic comparisons with other men because I'm not other men, I'm me. How about you define what "making it" is to you rather than assuming it's the same for all men? Because it really isn't.
>Stopped reading there, I'm a man and I define my own life.
You're coping. You would like to believe that you can define your own life, like your above your own biology. But you aren't. You're not going your own way, you were sent your own way.
>How about you define what "making it" is to you rather than assuming it's the same for all men? Because it really isn't.
Go ahead and define your version, and watch it line up with 99% of what society tells you.
I wouldn't structure my life around my biological impulses. Additionally, and much unlike you, I don't spend petty hours whining about society, or subscribe to nihilistic incel-tier whining about a boogie man like 'society'. How about you answer his question before instead of deflecting it?x
Schopenhauer was a little b***h, why are you quoting him. His own mother had to dunk on his dumb ass. Dude gets rejected once and then spirals like a baby.
What kind of brainlet ass cope is this?
>n-no i dont have social anxiety i just have to make it before i am allowed to have a social life
homie, just step outside for once and look around you. You could be fricking obese and still have a gf, friends, job etc. With a pathetic attitude like this you will never make it, even if you were to lift weights everyday for the rest of your life
Agree with job, you need to sustain yourself, but having true friendships and relationships, not one sided ones, is impossible unless you've made it.
> How are you gonna make friends, get a education, job, going to the gym, talk to women if you are not part of society? Are you just gonna sit in your room until you "make it"?
I guess there are two different kinds of making it, making it, which requires you to have all of the things you listed, and then "making it" which is becoming attractive enough to even attempting to acquire those things worth the effort.
> Fact is, your family cares about you, your friends cares about you
For many, not to an equivalent extent. Which is the entire point. Unless it is all reciprocal and based on mutual desire, its more likely they are uncomfortable with change of a person not being there, rather than actually wanting them their in the first place.
>Attitude is insanely important and it opens up doors for you
I agree 100%, only if you are already attractive.
>but having true friendships and relationships, not one sided ones, is impossible unless you've made it.
Not even gonna debate you on this because youre obviously too far gone. I highly doubt that a person with a mindset like yours could ever have a true, genuine connection with anyone. I just hope that you will soon realize what a fricking moron you are and stop acting like this
>Not an argument
ok
>No, they are dropping out because video games, internet and porn is EXTREMELY enticing, pleasing, fun, interesting, incredibly fun to do and difficult to get away from so they get sucked in to that lifestyle and get stuck. You don't have to be at the top in order to get pussy or a interesting life. People i grew up with where not "at the top", they where average joes doing average joe shit and we had a fricking blast with it. To think that people sit at home and believe they have to be some top genetic specimens or in top financial bracket to have a alright life is fricking insane. Its delusional. Its lacking in real life experience
This is cope, no single person willingly chooses any of those over the real thing. 1 in 3 men have not had sex in the past year. Are you telling me they are all stuck inside playing video games and porn, or are they productive in the workforce and they just aren't being chosen? 15% have no friends. This is a trend that is increasing due to the increasing standards of society, it isn't just men or women.
Gap between the rich and poor is growing.
Gap between those who have work experience and no work experience is growing.
Gap between educated and non educated is growing.
Gap between attractive and unattractive is growing.
>That is just wrong. I have real life long term friendships that have not changed and they been with me trough my loser NEET phases and all else. I think the way you view this or experience this comes down to your personal issues and its not something that is universal experience of everyone.
Not universal but becoming increasingly more common, and will soon become the norm, Can I ask your age?
>You don't have to be attractive to have friends
to have one that is on equal footing? and not one sided? disagree
> job
agree
>go to gym
agree
>get girlfriends.
a faithful one? reliably? disagree. 44% of people cheat, men and women.
>
Notice how this anon is not using any real world references from his own personal life. This is because this anon has very little real life experience and he gets most of his views from the internet. And he thinks that his internet knowledge is complete and accurate. There is no nuance in the post, he ignores the main themes of the post that he replies to, and the jumps to conclusions and switches and the topic. At the first glance it looks like he has a accurate understanding of what is going on, but the lack of nuance on each of these points he brings up, and how it ties in to the whole is where his ignorance is.
These are the views of the perpetual online and they are inaccurate.
>Notice how this anon is not using any real world references from his own personal life.
Personal experience is literally what I am drawing this from lol. I went from 255 fat obese pig to currently 120 skinnyfat moron, and the difference in attention, and reception, due to literally NO CHANGE IN MY BEHAVIOR, solely to my appearance, is astronomical. And I assume it will only get more drastic as I start building up further. A ton of time and effort, and disappointment happened in ever trying to waste time making progress in other areas of my life other than work and gym in-between that time period.
Frankly unless you have gone from one extreme to the other, there is no point in even pretending like you have a true perspective on what it's like.
Historical societies had rituals where a boy became a man by going into the wilderness and having to survive for months before he was allowed to come back home. A modern equivalent is going to be required if trends continue the way they are.
>Frankly unless you have gone from one extreme to the other, there is no point in even pretending like you have a true perspective on what it's like.
And here is why your perspective is skewed. Its because you haven't experienced normal. You always been a super lardass, your obesity was so fricking extreme that it was the defining factor about you. You are the exception to the rule, you are the anomaly, you are the extreme outlier. You say you have a true perspective? I say you have a twisted overly black and white and negative perspective because you wasn't part of the "normal" group, you stood out in a negative way and become the low status individual due to how fat you where. You could only observe the normal from distance and not see it operates in real life. And then you go on the internet and you read all this shit about how you need to be top tier to be chosen and all that, and you believe it because you don't know any better. It seems reasonable, it seems rational, i can't blame you. Its not that its NOT true that attractive and pretty and successful people experience good things because of that. But the mistake is believing that you have to be part of that to be "good enough", or to have the normal life experience of friends, gf, jobs and so on. There are outliers in the negative way, and there are outliers in the positive way. You have lost sight of the common normal middle ground where most people are. And you think you need to get to the top, but you just need to get to the middle. Threads like this OP shows how so many people get it twisted. They lose sight of middle ground and think its all nothing.
>Historical societies had rituals where a boy became a man by going into the wilderness and having to survive for months before he was allowed to come back home. A modern equivalent is going to be required if trends continue the way they are.
This is just more extreme thinking on your part.
>men dropping out of society? They realize there is no point if you aren't at the top?
No, they are dropping out because video games, internet and porn is EXTREMELY enticing, pleasing, fun, interesting, incredibly fun to do and difficult to get away from so they get sucked in to that lifestyle and get stuck. You don't have to be at the top in order to get pussy or a interesting life. People i grew up with where not "at the top", they where average joes doing average joe shit and we had a fricking blast with it. To think that people sit at home and believe they have to be some top genetic specimens or in top financial bracket to have a alright life is fricking insane. Its delusional. Its lacking in real life experience
>but having true friendships and relationships, not one sided ones, is impossible unless you've made it.
That is just wrong. I have real life long term friendships that have not changed and they been with me trough my loser NEET phases and all else. I think the way you view this or experience this comes down to your personal issues and its not something that is universal experience of everyone.
>becoming attractive enough to even attempting to acquire those things worth the effort.
What kind of a "thing" are you? How fricked up are you for you to be thinking like this? You have to be seriously physically deformed, along with being psychologically deformed to have this perspective. You don't have to be attractive to have friends, job, go to gym and even get girlfriends. Average and not physically attractive people do this all the time.
>I agree 100%, only if you are already attractive.
Wrong. All the people i hang out with, went to school with, worked with, you think i fricking cared what they looked like? No, what mattered was if the where "cool", if they where pleasant to spend time with.
There is so much shit wrong with this thinking its unreal.
>is it pointless to even attempt to integrate into society until you've made it?
Firstly , why are out outside of it to begin with? And how old are you?
Secondly, how are you going to "make it" without being integrated with it? How are you gonna make friends, get a education, job, going to the gym, talk to women if you are not part of society? Are you just gonna sit in your room until you "make it"?
>no one gives a shit about your unless you've made it
Its so easy to believe that and internalize that while your family and friends are wondering why the frick you are just sitting inside all day wasting your life away. Fact is, your family cares about you, your friends cares about you, your local community thinks its sad that you are wasting away and not doing shit. And if you have none of those caring for you then i wonder what happen for you to end up in such a fricked up place in your life because that is not normal.
>No one wants anything to do with you unless you're attractive and successful.
That is not true, change your attitude, be positive, try to NEVER complain, speak positively about people, have a positive constructive attitude towards people, jobs, gym, situations, everything, watch how people are drawn to you. Attitude is insanely important and it opens up doors for you. If you take your self and life seriously with a mentality of wanting to do better, people will notice and help you along. Some will be threatened but many will want to help you along. Its like if you car breaks down and you ask if someone can help you out with it it will be difficult to get people to help, but if you go behind it and start pushing it then people will see it and storm to help you push it. This applies to all things in life in general.
i just feel like there is no much reward for traditional masculinity even if its demanded socially, so idk try to find copes. idc if you do drugs and bang hookers, or just go monkmode and spirituality. rope is def not really a solution, and you can do it later if anything
By integrate into society do you mean get a job and pay taxes?
>By integrate into society do you mean get a job and pay taxes?
By full integration I mean have friends, family, romantic relationships and children ***that are fully reciprocal and not one sided and not dependent upon you putting in more effort than they do to exist***
>not one sided and not dependent upon you putting in more effort than they do to exist
Good fricking luck bro.
In a matriarchy only the top 20percent of men are deemed worthy, yes.
OP, if you're really blackpilled don't waste your time trying to convince normies. Normies will come up with anything to avoid confronting life without the comfort of their just-world fallacies. Just do what you have to do to get where you need to be. And, know that you have a competitive advantage over the normies because you aren't delusional.
Some folks are just 'bordeline'. Gain a couple pounds and lose some muscle, now suddenly everyone treats you like garbage. When in public, people subtly avoid and move away. Even family and friends barely hide pity and pained expressions when forced to interact with you. As an ugly low-status man, you're widely considered to be a social pest just for existing.
A couple mm of lost bone definition can demote you from human to invisible to contemptible leper-tier freak. No amount of positive mental attitude and "high social skill" will compensate for the psychic damage of consistently being treated like you're less than.
Given that handicap, things may still work out for you. You could be an exception, and you can choose to attempt a 'normal' social life if you want. If you don't, that's OK. If you want to take a break, work on yourself, and come back to things once you make the cut, that's OK too. The whole "improve your social skills by constantly practicing" is braindead normoid bullshit. In fact, you'll probably become even more socially maladjusted if you continually expose yourself to normie bullying as an ugly, low-status bastard.
But for real-- unless you're rustling jimmies here for fun, you're just wasting time. You already know what you need to do so do it.
In the end, you have to make the most out of the hand you've been dealt
>Normies will come up with anything to avoid confronting life without the comfort of their just-world fallacies
Why do blackpillers always think that they for some reason know things that normies don't? And they act like that they are brave or tough because they can handle tough subjects that normies can't?
>Gain a couple pounds and lose some muscle, now suddenly everyone treats you like garbage. When in public, people subtly avoid and move away. Even family and friends barely hide pity and pained expressions when forced to interact with you.
You either got a very fricked up family or you are delusional as frick. You are mixing things up and confusing your self. You think a couple of pound of fat/muscle makes a difference like that? Like your family pities you because of that? If your family do that they are fricked in their heads.
>As an ugly low-status man, you're widely considered to be a social pest just for existing.
I see low status individuals treated fairly and properly every single day everywhere. Yeah they are more likely to experience bullying and such but they are still treated with respect and normalcy.
>No amount of positive mental attitude and "high social skill" will compensate for the psychic damage of consistently being treated like you're less than.
>A couple mm of lost bone definition can demote you from human to invisible to contemptible leper-tier freak.
What world do you live in where you would experience people being contemptible towards you because you went from 14% bodyfat to 22%? You have to be actually mentally ill and seriously delusional about other people's behavior (and your own) for you to experience such drastic shifts in people treatment of you. Is this shit something you experienced personally? And do you have any diagnosed mental illnesses?
>Why do blackpillers always think that they for some reason know things that normies don't? And they act like that they are brave or tough because they can handle tough subjects that normies can't?
Because no amount of evidence or lived experience will convince you that for many people the quality of their social interaction is overdetermined by their physical appearance. Your lack of belief is totally delusional and actually harmful to the people you want to help.
>You either got a very fricked up family or you are delusional as frick. You are mixing things up and confusing your self. You think a couple of pound of fat/muscle makes a difference like that? Like your family pities you because of that? If your family do that they are fricked in their heads.
normie gaslighting.
What world do you live in where you would experience people being contemptible towards you because you went from 14% bodyfat to 22%? You have to be actually mentally ill and seriously delusional about other people's behavior (and your own) for you to experience such drastic shifts in people treatment of you. Is this shit something you experienced personally? And do you have any diagnosed mental illnesses?
normie gaslighting
>Bro just be confident and happy and put yourself out there! Don't worry that people treat you like a social pest for daring to present yourself in public as an ugly and low-status man. It's actually not happening and all in your head. I know for sure that you're crazy because I've never dealt with that myself lol. But, yeah trust me loser aye lmao
thanks for the help, friend. Will do 🙂
You don't really have any arguments. You don't answer my questions, you don't engage me on my key points. You twist what i say and pretend i say something else then what i am actually saying. And you outright just goes for "normie gaslighting". I think you are just trolling
>but I kinda get what he is saying.
What is he saying exactly?
He is saying that there isnt much value in going around doing shit when you have nothing to offer. It's like going to job interviews before even learning how to code in the first place.
>Given that handicap, things may still work out for you. You could be an exception, and you can choose to attempt a 'normal' social life if you want. If you don't, that's OK. If you want to take a break, work on yourself, and come back to things once you make the cut, that's OK too.
>The whole "improve your social skills by constantly practicing" is braindead normoid bullshit. In fact, you'll probably become even more socially maladjusted if you continually expose yourself to normie bullying as an ugly, low-status bastard.
Frick dude what world do you live in where you get bullied so much? There has to be something really fricking off about you. Even though fatties and low status dudes get some shit, bullying and insults and made fun of more, its not like everyday is hell because of it. You are exaggerating the frick out of this or you been so fricked that its unreal because people do not experience as much shit as you come up with here in your post. Even low status ugly bastards get treated with respect and decency.
The lesson is, never try.
Your post make no sense at all.
t. Outcast
Everyone here is dunking on the OP but I kinda get what he is saying. I barely managed to frick like 3 girls in college and had a miserable time because I was an out of shape loser. Since then I've lost weight, started lifting, made six figures with a WFH coding job. I still haven't considered myself fully "made it" but I'm getting there. I'm getting laid more (I still solely use dating apps) and I feel like doing any of that partying wouldn't have gotten me laid if I was broke and out of shape so sometimes it is worth it to go coccoon mode. It does make me sad that I didn't have some childhood friend gf who was with me back when I was a loser with nothing and stuck with me long enough to the point where I made it, and obviously I have no desire to settle down with some thot who was waiting for me at the finish line after I make it, so it will be a lonely existence of pumping and dumping
have a nice day
Your post makes no sense, but the thirdies coomers and roidbrains don’t have the faculty to realise that.
Using a gym analogy, OP’s argument would be:
“Is it useless to go to the gym before I can lift 1/2/3/4?”
morons you’re all so dumb
moronic bait thread based in incelism.
Protip: if you wait until you've 'made it' all the women your age will be post-wall and fat. Do you really want to be sitting there realizing the hot popular girls who wouldn't date you in highschool are now single moms pretending they're shy and lovestruck with you(r wallet) because over a certain age women are shameless subhuman grifters?
It is better for your mental health to frick a bunch of fat chicks at 18 so you can come to IST at 30 and say "I was popular with BBWs at 18 but I've had a dry spell since I decided to stop fricking fat girls" than to be like "I was ugly at 18 and refused to settle for less than Stacy, now I'm 30 and all the women are ugly trash who offend me by thinking they're my equal".
That really sounds like a lose-lose situation
Look OP, you can ignore the frivolous optimism posts and blithering dipshittery about defining your own life. The phenomenon you are referencing can be looked at quasi-mathematically, if you want a lifestyle of the 1% complete with 10/10 astrophysicist blow job queen wife and kids, Ferrari and fully loaded escalade or whatever top tier car you happen to like, and live in a mansion, and be rich and look like a bodybuilder then guess what? You will have to forego a good chunk of your life to obtain these things, most all of which can only be purchased so hope you have a money maker in the works. There is literally always a female somewhere willing to settle down so if you put on blinders and make compromises and work an average job you can get a wife, drive a Honda or Toyota or whatever normal people drive these days where you live, have a few kids and get in shape at like a planet fitness or something. You can't take any of it with you when you die and the way the west prints money these days there really isn't much point in saving. You can even start getting in shape now and maybe find a better job and in a year or 2 just buy a wife, they can literally be had for like $2k to $10k American shit bills, have her pop out a few kids and live the dream you buy. Whenever you feel like getting off the merry go round to make it happen is whenever you will know.