Yeh
Running destroys your joints and makes you unable to exercise later in life when you need it most.
Walkchads are able to prioritize and organize their life to allow the time to take a proper walk.
Never understood rooners
running on concrete is undoubtedly terrible for all of your joints. most runners need knee surgeries later in life. if you do ANY other type of cardio youll be fine. rowing, walking, stairmaster etc. also running on astro turf, grass or dirt roads is fine.
idk mang that other anon's claim sounds legitimate. there's a 18-19yo guy who used to be a runner, whom recently had to quit running because of some issues, and I think it's likely it has something to do with the running on concrete thing. I'm no expert but I can't think of other reason
Less dangerous for the joints compared to lifting often from a young age.
If you run 60 miles per week on concrete with low cadence you'll possibly have problems in a few years. If you deadlift with less than perfect form for years you'll have problems.
>Running destroys your joints
maybe if you're a fat frick or someone moronic enough to want to be "big" in the first place like 5'10 230 lbs musclemonkeys maybe, roiders especially
stay lean and shredded and running outside of marathon-tier stuff will only be healt-promoting
this, especially the last statement.
IoT can't come soon enough so I can make a fitness forum that only allows people to post that weighed in at under 200 pounds in the morning. Frick fatties, their input is worthless.
> Running destroys your joints
Stopped reading right there. It only does that if you overdo it. 20 minutes a day on a flat surface is enough to get your cardiovascular system into peak condition, and it will strengthen your joints, not destroy them.
If this were true then for elite marathon athletes who've been running all day for years they'd be crippled when they got older, yet this definitely isn't the case at all. As I said in my other post the difference between weight you're running at, and the surface as well, will mean the difference between destroying your joints and being completely unaffected by it. There's a certain threshhold of force the joint can take and recover perfectly from. Them getting sore running is a clear giveaway you shouldn't be doing it. Not everyone can do everything.
I am 50 I walk. People my age can jog, but you screw up your knee or ankle at my age you are screwed. You get injured running. Even young healthy runners get injured. Every runner knows this. I ran when I was younger. But I don't run now. I say switch to walking about 40 to 45. Preserve your joints. Don't risk injury. You get older and injuries take a long time to heal.
I walk I have zero chance of injury. And I can continue to do it while Mr. Runner is on his 5th rehab in 2 years. And his knee cartilage is turning paper thin.
Only way you are destroying your joints from running is if you are a fat frick who just picked up running in their 30s. Your bone mineral density is already low as frick and all of sudden you are making them experience 3x your body weight in ground reaction forces. Yeah there's no way your bones and joints can handle that.
Should you start running when you are younger, it will increase your bone mineral density and you won't get these issues since you've given time for your body to acclimate.
Something that isn't considered enough is how your quality life at old age. Should've you have been running or doing high impact experience, you won't be breaking you hip from a simple fall when you are old. Your bones are more sturdy and if you were running, your heart is healthier also. I'm not advocating for running only as a means of exercise, but it shouldn't be overlooked because some fat fricks on the internet decided to pick it up later in life and destroyed their weak bodies even more.
>Should've you have been running or doing high impact experience, you won't be breaking you hip from a simple fall when you are old. Your bones are more sturdy and if you were running, your heart is healthier also.
What if I milkmaxx?
>Running destroys your joints and makes you unable to exercise later in life when you need it most.
This is not true due to a phenomenon called hormesis. When you run, your body will boost collagen production in those areas to make sure any bit of damage is repaired
20 minutes of cardio won't make you lose any fat, fatso.
just eat leass, fatso.
cardio is for CARDIOVASCULAR health. the 150 calories you may burn in your little 20min jog won't get you any thinner.
>cardio is for CARDIOVASCULAR health
I never implied anything else, moron. I also don't think it's a good idea to take fitness advice from a sack of shit powerfat.
for general fitness? no
for bodybuilding? maybe
for powerlifting? most certainly
running or liss cardio is great
if you keep your hr in a low zone the cortisol/catabolic effect is very low
so i would say it has almost no impact on your ability to build muscles and low impact cardio probably has the best and easiest benefits for cardio vesicular health which is very important for not dying and living healthy
all in a certain way range ofc
hardcore endurance and mass just doesn’t mix very well and you have to cut back on one of them for the other
If you just want to be big and strong? no cardio needed
>running or liss cardio is great >if you keep your hr in a low zone the cortisol/catabolic effect is very low
sorry im new, can you elaborate about this stuff?
NTA, but cardio causes different adaptations depending on how hard you're working and for how long.
low intensity, steady state (LISS) training improves fat oxidation more than higher intensity training. This means you can burn fat at a higher rate and don't need as much carb support during long efforts, like hiking or long bike rides.
on the other end of the spectrum is high intensity interval training (2-8 minute max efforts). This type of training increases VO2 Max, which is the maximum rate your body can consume oxygen during exercise. During VO2 max intervals, you will be using almost entirely glucose and very little fat.
There are lots of zones in between (lactate threshold, etc) but the gist for someone who wants to be in overall good cardio shape is this:
1. Spend about 80% of your cardio training time doing sub-maximal effort. A good rule of thumb is that you should be able to speak in full sentences.
2. Spend about 20% of your time doing 3-8 minute intervals. You should go at the hardest pace you can sustain for the interval without burning out. take a few minutes rest between intervals.
These two rules cover 80% of what you would get from a XC running or cycling coach.
running is bad for your joints if you're above a certain weight. 250lb was what I was told but a bunch of places on the internet just say "overweight" or 200lb. I prefer to walk at around 4 mph but I mix in some light jogging just to get the blood pumping.
If you're fat like mark its probably a bad idea. Going on a jog once or twice a week is fine though, its the marathon runners who run hours every day that get fricked up joints. If you're worried about that just swim.
Anti-Running is the ultimate cope for the mentally weak.
You should be able deadlift 2.5x your bodyweight, squat 2x your bodyweight, bench 1.5x your bodyweight, OHP your bodyweight, and run a 10K in under 45 minutes to be considered IST
>Nobody who lived in Sparta has ever been fit >Nobody who competed at the last Olympic athletics was fit
Okay bro I'll be sure to use that helpful rubric of yours
>Endurance training is directly antagonistic to the creation and retention of muscle mass. The muscles grow stronger by growing larger. Running is not a test of strength, so running does not build or maintain muscle mass. In fact, running/cycling/ellipticalizing directly competes for the muscle resources that maintain their size and strength.
Kek, the article is just an overly long "cardio kills your gains" meme
>Running is not a test of strength
Is this what powershitters really tell themselves to sleep at night?
mental strength is at least as important as physical strength even if you’re strictly lifting weights, and nothing tests mental strength more than running, which only happens if you have the willpower to keep moving
damn, can't believe it.
the guy who tells literally everyone who stops making progress on a linear progression to shovel more food into their face doesn't see any value in running
this is brand new information
20 minutes is not a long enough run to see any kind of gains.
30 minutes of cardio should be your goal. If you can’t sustain for 30 minutes you need to slow down
No. Rooning is the only true cardio. If you'd ever been in a fight or wrestling match you'd know that. Also who is that Down syndrome ass girl (WOULD tho)?
The basic premises of SS work well for the untrained and undertrained, and if you work hard and remain disciplined for 3 to 6 months you will get a lot stronger. I'm not naturally athletic by any stretch and SS got me to a 300 lb bench, 400 lb squat, and 500 lb deadlift (I got tired of eating and being overweight, so I cut that out and have been focusing on overall health and all around fitness). But people on the internet have created a personality cult around the man and have based their own identities around a training paradigm that is only intended to be followed for months, not a lifetime, so that has poisoned the well somewhat and it becomes hard to sort out the good from the bad re: SS.
>The basic premises of SS work well for the untrained and undertrained
I disagree. The untrained used to be kids who grew up playing around and/or doing some sport and were pretty athletic by modern standars. Nowadays there are kids who could not jog 5k or do 10 pushups that are advised to stuff their faces (they are underwieght/have no muscle) and do 5x5 three times a week while upping the weight every week and do no cardio. This will lead then to stall and get fat and unhealthy pretty quick.
I'm happy it worked for you but for most people a more balanced aproach is going to be way better.
Here is someone's opinion about this:
https://mythicalstrength.blogspot.com/2014/05/why-abbreviated-training-starting.html
Fair point. It "worked" for me in the sense that it got my numbers up, but like I alluded to I came out the other end fat and unable to go up a few flights of stairs without getting winded. I feel a lot healthier, look better, and am still stronger than most people, now that I've focused on running and use squat/bench/deadlift as cross training.
We've gone a similar way brother. For me it was stronglifts to strength and fatness.
I have noticed a lot of people have that "strength at all costs phase" before coming back to a more healthy bodyfat and better cardio.
Did I say I got there in 3 to 6 months? I said it can make you a lot stronger in 3 to 6 months, which is how long I should have done it for. Instead I stubbornly kept microloading, eating like a pig and drinking milk until I was strong but disgusting, which took maybe a year. I also didn't start out as a 120 lb twink, I had been lifting a while, just not using any sort of actual programming.
Cardio is one thing. Running is another. For egenral health and fitness, running is not a good idea, even though cardio is. Walking, hiking, biking, swimming, dancing, jazzsercise, tennis, whatever you enjoy doing for cardio, go do it. But the mindless pounding that comes with running is not required for general health and fitness.
For somone want ing to be a lifter, or just look like one, running is counterproductive. Do some form of cardio, to be sure, but running should probably not be your choice.
If you are an athlete training for your sport, then yes., Presumbaly running needs to be integrated into your training. But that is sport specific.
To sum up: for general health and fitness, running is not a good idea, but some sort of cardio is.
only thing he's right about. running is pretty terrible, as is jumping. eventually you degrade your joints to the point of total loss.
sprinting for about 4 minutes per week is fine though.
>people repeating this “muh running is bad for your knees” momscience 40 years later
Lmao
Studies show runners tend to have LESS joint problems later in lifr because they spent their life strengthening their stabilizing muscles and ligaments. Knee injuries happen through sudden trauma or overuse injuries from doing too much too soon
A fat moron trying to run for 30 minutes is like a dyel trying to bench 2 plates his first time. Obviously injuries happen if you’re not prepared for the exercise you’re doing
Same and same. I think there are many connective tissue and fascia that get moving when you hop up and down for an hour and that alleviates pain. Lifting doesn't help with this (maybe if you lift big weights it does better) as it targets mostly muscle
Does anyone else who lifts and runs find that running has become exponentially more difficult as you put on lean mass? In the past 3 years I've been running 10-20 miles/week and have gone from easily running at a 9:00/mile pace to barely managing at a 11:00/mile pace.
I do incline farmers walks instead of running, Mark is right here. >burn fat >forearm growth >get your body ready to be functional should you ever get fat >burn more calories
simple as
>thinks this actually works for cardio
Here's a little test to see if your """cardio""" is working. Try actually running or swimming or any kind of active sport. Notice how you still are absolutely shit at it?
homie this thread is about running/treadmills didn't think swimming was relevant. And uphill farmers walk have improved my cardio all over. I will NEVER run like a gimp sorry bro, it's boring, dangerous and I hate the feeling.
But Shart Ripplebreasts told me I can get a first class PFT if I spend 11 months out of the year in bloat-mode and then take 3 or 4 weeks to get my 3 mile down below 20:00!!!! What is running but a series of sub-maximal quarter squats???
He's right if you're a fat like himself. If you're lean, running is one of the best, most natural things you can possibly do. You can just feel the endorphins and the rush you get from running, you almost feel your lungs expanding, your circulation system improving, your braincells growing a little bit. You can get a good feeling from lifting, but this is a distinct one. Maybe on a really good cardio machine you could get a similar thing, I don't know.
If you're a fat powersharter that is just too heavy then yes, you shouldn't be running. Running at 150lbs is completely fine, running at 200lbs is completely not fine except for short periods.
>I get enough for basic health and fitness from lifting.
No, you don't. Think of it this way:
Some dude says he gets all the strength training he needs at his McJob where he restocks grocery shelves. Were you to test him, his actual lifts would be about 155/90/185. No, that's not kg. Would you find his strength to be sufficient? Of course not. That's you, with cardio. What you think is sufficient from your lifting is absolute weakling, pre-beginner tier for people who actually do cardio.
Heart health is probably the most important factor for longevity of all the factors you have control over. Why wouldn't you try to push it as much as you do heavy lifting? I'll give you a hint: it's because you suck at it and you're afraid.
It takes far less time to build up decent cardio than it does decent lifts, both in terms of minutes per session and months from beginner to intermediate. Imagine skipping squats in which you were guaranteed to literally triple your performance in one month because you were afraid. That's you and cardio. The amount of time you shitpost on IST every week is more than enough time to do cardio.
Running is the most basic and primordial form of cardio. I would say bipedal running, throwing, and language are the most defining characteristics of running. You can't consider yourself fit if you can't run a 5k in under 30 minutes, and that's being generous.
Running having a higher injury rate than other forms of cardio is largely skewed by fat noobs doing too much too fast. Professional runners actually have healthier knees than cyclists, on average. This is because the impact of running causes the sinovial fluid in the knees to cycle more frequently and keep the joint in better shape.
Running is also an excellent way to keep lean and not have to be autistic about your diet.
Running won't turn you into a hungry marathon skeleton unless you specifically train for that, just like you won't get "too big" from lifting.
You can't just do sprints either, you need to include some slower runs to build an aerobic base.
Running is not like lifting, don't push through the pain, especially if it's in your joint. Listen to your body, do some fast runs, do some slow runs, and have a good time.
>Post your pink soft babyfeet
Nice "No u" idiot! He's the one who sounds like he runs you're the soft grandma saying "10 minutes of walking a day to keep the doctor away!!!" Post your tubby boomer breasts!
You should be sprinting. Everywhere, out in the streets in business clothes, with a terrified look in your face. Cant charge you with disturbing the peace if they can't catch you
>be me >used to run >start lifting, drop cardio >go indoor bouldering with friend >exhausted after literally 10 minutes of beginner routes
I'll keep on running Mark thank you
Get a bike, lift heavy. Running is for morons that refuse to accept older people that ran have fricked knees, hips and ankles "for some unknown reason, prolly genetics durrr".
Weak pathetic fricks run.
The reason cycling may cause ED is that the seat puts constant pressure on the perineum—the area between the genitals and anus. This pressure can harm nerves and temporarily slow blood flow, which causes tingling or numbness in the penis and, eventually, ED.
I just want the total package including strength, cardio fitness and flexibility.
Starting at 32 as a heavy smoker, 5'11 roughly 80kg.
Thinking progressively increasing body weight exercise, stretching and 20 min daily walking/ jogging progressing into interval sprinting.
You're not gonna get anywhere with body weight shit, stretching does frick all and you can't get anything resembling a real workout in 20 minutes (at least not as an untrained couch potato with poptart lung).
Lift 2-3 times per week and walk 2 hours during your off days. You can throw in some sprinting as needed.
If you don't have that much time for walking then go for low-impact high-intensity cardio like swimming, biking, stairmastergayging, etc.
A summary of his arguments https://startingstrength.com/article/why-you-should-not-be-running: >1. Strength is the ability to produce force with your muscles against an external resistance > Quite literally, the more you run, the better you are at running and the worse you are at being strong. >2. Endurance training is directly antagonistic to the creation and retention of muscle mass. >This fundamental fact of physiology explains the typical appearance of the average 80-year-old person: skinny, in the arms and legs anyway.[...]But it's also a result of the fact that we choose to do fewer things that require strength, and therefore fewer things that maintain the size of our muscles. [...]And much of the responsibility for the problem of incorrect activity selection lies with the “experts” who tell us that endurance exercise – the kind that is measured in minutes, not pounds lifted – is really the most important thing to do to stay healthy. >3. The reason we're so concerned with “cardio” is that we've become indoctrinated into the belief that activity that elevates the heart rate for an extended period of time is the only way to keep the heart healthy. >Despite the fact that a huge amount of data demonstrates that the heart gets sufficient stimulation in the performance of correctly-designed strength training, and that diet is a far more important factor in the prevention of heart disease than exercise[...]running at high mileages actively destroys muscle mass. This is why elite cyclists and marathoners have a ribcage that is visible through their corporate sponsorship jerseys. >4. Repetitive motion injuries like tendonitis are quite common in people who engage in high-volume endurance activity >Seldom do you hear: “Your legs aren't really strong enough to retain proper stride mechanics when you get tired at the end of your run. Maybe you should think about running less and getting your squat stronger.”
that's all nice and gay if you want to get strong. If you want to be able to run a mile without dying... you better start doing cardio. Only an american could ever get the idea that using your legs to move is not a practical or desirable function but squatting 200 kg is.
The anti-running conspirators are always those bitter fat cuckolds who just love to blab about how others should live their lives. People run because running makes them feel good, but fat cuckolds want you to be miserable like them.
>if you dont run it makes you look fat >i dont care how runners look >stop making me feel bad!!!!
i literally just stated there are odd shaped people that run marathons you sperg. calm down a bit
I'm not saying that lack of cardio makes one fat. I'm saying (You) are a fat looser who has nothing better to do than try to bring others down. Case in point: Rippetoe. Maybe he's a good coach, but he's literally a fat cuckold. No wonder he's going to try and shit on runners.
I hear about more knee injuries from runners than I do with any other sport. Yet we got dyels talkin about risk/reward ratio of deadlifts despite squats causing most injuries when it comes to lifting.
I swear everyone is so frickin moronic when it comes to fitness, even when the evidence is shown throughout your entire life in school or through work colleagues
most people have shit technique. They een land on their heels. bare-foot running is where it's at. Try it, you INSTANTLY start to run different cause you just FEEL your normal way is not good for you. Shoes frick up alot more than people think.
i jump rope, its a time issue for me. I can't fit everything into my day. Even when I do have time, I don't run or jog. Ill sprint though. Anything but running/jogging
>Just under train your legs so you can LARP as a brown street shitter who never invented iron plates
No! Work all your leg muscles with weights! Don't rely on Street Shitter Squats! If you guys listen to this wannabe brown you're going to get injured from imbalances.
Nobody said NOT working out with weights. > Imbalances.
Kek, gym freaks are the ones with the most unbalanced bodies.
Either way nobody said training with weights is bad, plus if you are a fighter, those plyometric squats increase your kicking and wrestling skills like you wouldn't believe.
Here’s my question. I’m 6’ 4”, 270 pounds, I’ve been doing two hours a day, one hour jogging intervals and the other hour with max incline walking at 3 mph
My question is, is there any cardiovascular downside to this much? Athletes do tons more im sure
Cardiovascular? Absolutely not, but it might be too much volume for your body. Regular people are completely bottlenecked by their shit bodies and it's almost impossible to stress your heart enough unless you've been training hard for at least a year (or you're on meth).
If you are a complete novice to lifting and are brute forcing your way up in weight for squats and deadlifts it makes sense to stop running for a month or two
Otherwise Mark is silly
If you’re a strength athlete then he’s right. If you’re just a person that wants to look good and feel good you should probably do some running but sprints and walking will be better.
>listening to a fat
NGMI
FPBP
ripplebreasts makes people stronger, that's about it though.
>american
>powerlifter
>texan
fat
That's no excuse. I know fat people who burned 20+ kilograms fat while running.
Yeh
Running destroys your joints and makes you unable to exercise later in life when you need it most.
Walkchads are able to prioritize and organize their life to allow the time to take a proper walk.
Never understood rooners
this guy gets it
lift heavy as frick and walk everywhere
>t.
The Fat Man Copes
running on concrete is undoubtedly terrible for all of your joints. most runners need knee surgeries later in life. if you do ANY other type of cardio youll be fine. rowing, walking, stairmaster etc. also running on astro turf, grass or dirt roads is fine.
>most runners need knee surgeries later in life
source: trust me bro
idk mang that other anon's claim sounds legitimate. there's a 18-19yo guy who used to be a runner, whom recently had to quit running because of some issues, and I think it's likely it has something to do with the running on concrete thing. I'm no expert but I can't think of other reason
Less dangerous for the joints compared to lifting often from a young age.
If you run 60 miles per week on concrete with low cadence you'll possibly have problems in a few years. If you deadlift with less than perfect form for years you'll have problems.
OP question is moronic and provocative
Yeah and for a runner he sure had a good diet with plenty of protein to enable his joints and muscles recovery.
HUBBA HUBBA
>Running destroys your joints
maybe if you're a fat frick or someone moronic enough to want to be "big" in the first place like 5'10 230 lbs musclemonkeys maybe, roiders especially
stay lean and shredded and running outside of marathon-tier stuff will only be healt-promoting
I hate Americans so much
You are a manlet.
this, especially the last statement.
IoT can't come soon enough so I can make a fitness forum that only allows people to post that weighed in at under 200 pounds in the morning. Frick fatties, their input is worthless.
>Running destroys your joints
t. fat heel striker
> Running destroys your joints
Stopped reading right there. It only does that if you overdo it. 20 minutes a day on a flat surface is enough to get your cardiovascular system into peak condition, and it will strengthen your joints, not destroy them.
Aren't you tired of being wrong all the time?
If this were true then for elite marathon athletes who've been running all day for years they'd be crippled when they got older, yet this definitely isn't the case at all. As I said in my other post the difference between weight you're running at, and the surface as well, will mean the difference between destroying your joints and being completely unaffected by it. There's a certain threshhold of force the joint can take and recover perfectly from. Them getting sore running is a clear giveaway you shouldn't be doing it. Not everyone can do everything.
FAT
GORDO
GRASO
GORDINHO
I am 50 I walk. People my age can jog, but you screw up your knee or ankle at my age you are screwed. You get injured running. Even young healthy runners get injured. Every runner knows this. I ran when I was younger. But I don't run now. I say switch to walking about 40 to 45. Preserve your joints. Don't risk injury. You get older and injuries take a long time to heal.
I walk I have zero chance of injury. And I can continue to do it while Mr. Runner is on his 5th rehab in 2 years. And his knee cartilage is turning paper thin.
based oldhomosexual
Only way you are destroying your joints from running is if you are a fat frick who just picked up running in their 30s. Your bone mineral density is already low as frick and all of sudden you are making them experience 3x your body weight in ground reaction forces. Yeah there's no way your bones and joints can handle that.
Should you start running when you are younger, it will increase your bone mineral density and you won't get these issues since you've given time for your body to acclimate.
Something that isn't considered enough is how your quality life at old age. Should've you have been running or doing high impact experience, you won't be breaking you hip from a simple fall when you are old. Your bones are more sturdy and if you were running, your heart is healthier also. I'm not advocating for running only as a means of exercise, but it shouldn't be overlooked because some fat fricks on the internet decided to pick it up later in life and destroyed their weak bodies even more.
>Should've you have been running or doing high impact experience, you won't be breaking you hip from a simple fall when you are old. Your bones are more sturdy and if you were running, your heart is healthier also.
What if I milkmaxx?
>Running destroys your joints and makes you unable to exercise later in life when you need it most.
This is not true due to a phenomenon called hormesis. When you run, your body will boost collagen production in those areas to make sure any bit of damage is repaired
Run on grass, track, or a treadmill, moron.
>treadmill
fricks my shins and wonky knee way more than asphalt
>listing to a fat homosexual instead of doing 20 minutes of cardio a day
DYELs will always look for every excuse to avoid bettering themselves.
>bettering themselves
With a 20 minute run?
Oh sweetie.
A day? Yes.
You need 4-6 hours of activity a day, anon.
A little run is not going to help anyone.
Almost everyone would easily visibly and psychologically benefit from another 20min a day of exercise, you know this, you're just being a silly billy
>A little run is not going to help anyone.
Yes, it does, moronic homosexual.
For a lot of people, that's better than what they're already doing.
The correct term is DYEC (Do You Even Cardio).
>DYEC
TIL thanks.
This guy gets it.
20 minutes of cardio won't make you lose any fat, fatso.
just eat leass, fatso.
cardio is for CARDIOVASCULAR health. the 150 calories you may burn in your little 20min jog won't get you any thinner.
>cardio is for CARDIOVASCULAR health
I never implied anything else, moron. I also don't think it's a good idea to take fitness advice from a sack of shit powerfat.
for general fitness? no
for bodybuilding? maybe
for powerlifting? most certainly
running or liss cardio is great
if you keep your hr in a low zone the cortisol/catabolic effect is very low
so i would say it has almost no impact on your ability to build muscles and low impact cardio probably has the best and easiest benefits for cardio vesicular health which is very important for not dying and living healthy
all in a certain way range ofc
hardcore endurance and mass just doesn’t mix very well and you have to cut back on one of them for the other
If you just want to be big and strong? no cardio needed
>running or liss cardio is great
>if you keep your hr in a low zone the cortisol/catabolic effect is very low
sorry im new, can you elaborate about this stuff?
NTA, but cardio causes different adaptations depending on how hard you're working and for how long.
low intensity, steady state (LISS) training improves fat oxidation more than higher intensity training. This means you can burn fat at a higher rate and don't need as much carb support during long efforts, like hiking or long bike rides.
on the other end of the spectrum is high intensity interval training (2-8 minute max efforts). This type of training increases VO2 Max, which is the maximum rate your body can consume oxygen during exercise. During VO2 max intervals, you will be using almost entirely glucose and very little fat.
There are lots of zones in between (lactate threshold, etc) but the gist for someone who wants to be in overall good cardio shape is this:
1. Spend about 80% of your cardio training time doing sub-maximal effort. A good rule of thumb is that you should be able to speak in full sentences.
2. Spend about 20% of your time doing 3-8 minute intervals. You should go at the hardest pace you can sustain for the interval without burning out. take a few minutes rest between intervals.
These two rules cover 80% of what you would get from a XC running or cycling coach.
Does this I need endurance training and rooning for ottermode?
A vegan cardiologist told me running increases all cause mortality and I believe him
It does, but only because they add Black folk running away from cops to the statistics.
running is bad for your joints if you're above a certain weight. 250lb was what I was told but a bunch of places on the internet just say "overweight" or 200lb. I prefer to walk at around 4 mph but I mix in some light jogging just to get the blood pumping.
If you're fat like mark its probably a bad idea. Going on a jog once or twice a week is fine though, its the marathon runners who run hours every day that get fricked up joints. If you're worried about that just swim.
Anti-Running is the ultimate cope for the mentally weak.
You should be able deadlift 2.5x your bodyweight, squat 2x your bodyweight, bench 1.5x your bodyweight, OHP your bodyweight, and run a 10K in under 45 minutes to be considered IST
>you're only IST if you're in the top 0.0001% of human fitness
Get fricked blackpiller
>Nobody who lived in Sparta has ever been fit
>Nobody who competed at the last Olympic athletics was fit
Okay bro I'll be sure to use that helpful rubric of yours
nearly impossible to meet these, since fast twitch and slow twitch muscle are in competition with each other
>Endurance training is directly antagonistic to the creation and retention of muscle mass. The muscles grow stronger by growing larger. Running is not a test of strength, so running does not build or maintain muscle mass. In fact, running/cycling/ellipticalizing directly competes for the muscle resources that maintain their size and strength.
Kek, the article is just an overly long "cardio kills your gains" meme
>Running is not a test of strength
Is this what powershitters really tell themselves to sleep at night?
mental strength is at least as important as physical strength even if you’re strictly lifting weights, and nothing tests mental strength more than running, which only happens if you have the willpower to keep moving
>nothing tests mental strength more than running
You've never squatted heavy, have you?
t. sub 3pl8 squat twink
cope
I can squat well over 3pl8
Running is just as important as lifting
Nice 22" quads, I can already imagine your 2" rom squat
The cope is strong with you
damn, can't believe it.
the guy who tells literally everyone who stops making progress on a linear progression to shovel more food into their face doesn't see any value in running
this is brand new information
A real man weighs at least 300 lbs
finally a man worth the weight, unlike that gabe newell hack..
He is the best shitposter alive.
You're better off doing burpee variations, although that needs to be built up due to the ridiculous amount of pushups you'd be doing
I like running, but only if it's short and vigorous running, or sprinting. "Jogging" is utter shit.
No. Do sprints.
20 minutes is not a long enough run to see any kind of gains.
30 minutes of cardio should be your goal. If you can’t sustain for 30 minutes you need to slow down
I run 40-45 miles every week.
WOO DOGGIE THIS ONE HERE PUT UP QUITE A FIGHT BUT GOT EM BAGGED
lifting is for gays
>regards, IST
yes
there is not a single runner that doesn't have problem with knees
walking and lifting is choice for big brains
I don't have knee problems and I've been running twice a week for ten years 🙂
go on and report when you are late 30s
I'm 42 and have no joint issues while running ~50km a week.
No. Rooning is the only true cardio. If you'd ever been in a fight or wrestling match you'd know that. Also who is that Down syndrome ass girl (WOULD tho)?
The basic premises of SS work well for the untrained and undertrained, and if you work hard and remain disciplined for 3 to 6 months you will get a lot stronger. I'm not naturally athletic by any stretch and SS got me to a 300 lb bench, 400 lb squat, and 500 lb deadlift (I got tired of eating and being overweight, so I cut that out and have been focusing on overall health and all around fitness). But people on the internet have created a personality cult around the man and have based their own identities around a training paradigm that is only intended to be followed for months, not a lifetime, so that has poisoned the well somewhat and it becomes hard to sort out the good from the bad re: SS.
>The basic premises of SS work well for the untrained and undertrained
I disagree. The untrained used to be kids who grew up playing around and/or doing some sport and were pretty athletic by modern standars. Nowadays there are kids who could not jog 5k or do 10 pushups that are advised to stuff their faces (they are underwieght/have no muscle) and do 5x5 three times a week while upping the weight every week and do no cardio. This will lead then to stall and get fat and unhealthy pretty quick.
I'm happy it worked for you but for most people a more balanced aproach is going to be way better.
Here is someone's opinion about this:
https://mythicalstrength.blogspot.com/2014/05/why-abbreviated-training-starting.html
Fair point. It "worked" for me in the sense that it got my numbers up, but like I alluded to I came out the other end fat and unable to go up a few flights of stairs without getting winded. I feel a lot healthier, look better, and am still stronger than most people, now that I've focused on running and use squat/bench/deadlift as cross training.
We've gone a similar way brother. For me it was stronglifts to strength and fatness.
I have noticed a lot of people have that "strength at all costs phase" before coming back to a more healthy bodyfat and better cardio.
That mythical strength guy is moronic redditor
>SS is 5x5
And so are you
>I'm not naturally athletic at all, but I got to a 300lbs bench in 3-6 months with SS
at least make your larps believable
Did I say I got there in 3 to 6 months? I said it can make you a lot stronger in 3 to 6 months, which is how long I should have done it for. Instead I stubbornly kept microloading, eating like a pig and drinking milk until I was strong but disgusting, which took maybe a year. I also didn't start out as a 120 lb twink, I had been lifting a while, just not using any sort of actual programming.
Cardio is one thing. Running is another. For egenral health and fitness, running is not a good idea, even though cardio is. Walking, hiking, biking, swimming, dancing, jazzsercise, tennis, whatever you enjoy doing for cardio, go do it. But the mindless pounding that comes with running is not required for general health and fitness.
For somone want ing to be a lifter, or just look like one, running is counterproductive. Do some form of cardio, to be sure, but running should probably not be your choice.
If you are an athlete training for your sport, then yes., Presumbaly running needs to be integrated into your training. But that is sport specific.
To sum up: for general health and fitness, running is not a good idea, but some sort of cardio is.
only thing he's right about. running is pretty terrible, as is jumping. eventually you degrade your joints to the point of total loss.
sprinting for about 4 minutes per week is fine though.
>people repeating this “muh running is bad for your knees” momscience 40 years later
Lmao
Studies show runners tend to have LESS joint problems later in lifr because they spent their life strengthening their stabilizing muscles and ligaments. Knee injuries happen through sudden trauma or overuse injuries from doing too much too soon
A fat moron trying to run for 30 minutes is like a dyel trying to bench 2 plates his first time. Obviously injuries happen if you’re not prepared for the exercise you’re doing
I just ran my first half marathon. Feels good man. I’m going to keep rooning because I gained 50lbs during uni and I can’t live with myself anymore.
I have scoliosis and running feels good lifting hurts
Same and same. I think there are many connective tissue and fascia that get moving when you hop up and down for an hour and that alleviates pain. Lifting doesn't help with this (maybe if you lift big weights it does better) as it targets mostly muscle
Does anyone else who lifts and runs find that running has become exponentially more difficult as you put on lean mass? In the past 3 years I've been running 10-20 miles/week and have gone from easily running at a 9:00/mile pace to barely managing at a 11:00/mile pace.
Don't be sad you're slowing down from something good
Any mass slows you down. Big professional bodybuilders sleep a lot.
Your heart will struggle even if you are big on mostly muscle.
I do incline farmers walks instead of running, Mark is right here.
>burn fat
>forearm growth
>get your body ready to be functional should you ever get fat
>burn more calories
simple as
>thinks this actually works for cardio
Here's a little test to see if your """cardio""" is working. Try actually running or swimming or any kind of active sport. Notice how you still are absolutely shit at it?
But it does work, I also swim pretty often and I have no issues. Of course I wouldn't win a race of any kind but I'm doing just fine.
>I also swim pretty often
Stop retroactively reading there.
homie this thread is about running/treadmills didn't think swimming was relevant. And uphill farmers walk have improved my cardio all over. I will NEVER run like a gimp sorry bro, it's boring, dangerous and I hate the feeling.
You hate the feeling because your heart is weak.
But Shart Ripplebreasts told me I can get a first class PFT if I spend 11 months out of the year in bloat-mode and then take 3 or 4 weeks to get my 3 mile down below 20:00!!!! What is running but a series of sub-maximal quarter squats???
Yes.
You'll frick up your knees.
Just to squat thrusts.
He's right if you're a fat like himself. If you're lean, running is one of the best, most natural things you can possibly do. You can just feel the endorphins and the rush you get from running, you almost feel your lungs expanding, your circulation system improving, your braincells growing a little bit. You can get a good feeling from lifting, but this is a distinct one. Maybe on a really good cardio machine you could get a similar thing, I don't know.
If you're a fat powersharter that is just too heavy then yes, you shouldn't be running. Running at 150lbs is completely fine, running at 200lbs is completely not fine except for short periods.
>YOU HAVE TO DO CARDIO BECAUSE... YOU JUST HAVE TO OK?
But WHY. I get enough for basic health and fitness from lifting. Why do I HAVE to do more?
>I get enough for basic health and fitness from lifting.
No, you don't. Think of it this way:
Some dude says he gets all the strength training he needs at his McJob where he restocks grocery shelves. Were you to test him, his actual lifts would be about 155/90/185. No, that's not kg. Would you find his strength to be sufficient? Of course not. That's you, with cardio. What you think is sufficient from your lifting is absolute weakling, pre-beginner tier for people who actually do cardio.
Heart health is probably the most important factor for longevity of all the factors you have control over. Why wouldn't you try to push it as much as you do heavy lifting? I'll give you a hint: it's because you suck at it and you're afraid.
It takes far less time to build up decent cardio than it does decent lifts, both in terms of minutes per session and months from beginner to intermediate. Imagine skipping squats in which you were guaranteed to literally triple your performance in one month because you were afraid. That's you and cardio. The amount of time you shitpost on IST every week is more than enough time to do cardio.
>IST still listens to a """"coach"""" who looks like an alcoholic trucker
>lardass lolcow fraud guru has opinions on anything
Just as much denial as the vegan doctors who look like emaciated balding grandmas
>tfw shin splints
does it get better bros?
yes u can just run through them
and get good padded shoes
invincibles/nimbus etc
>THIS 60 YEAR OLD GUY LOOKS LIKE SHIT THEREFORE HIS IDEAS ABOUT LIFTING ARE WRONG
His ideas about lifting ARE wrong.
His ideas about running ARE wrong.
Running is the most basic and primordial form of cardio. I would say bipedal running, throwing, and language are the most defining characteristics of running. You can't consider yourself fit if you can't run a 5k in under 30 minutes, and that's being generous.
Running having a higher injury rate than other forms of cardio is largely skewed by fat noobs doing too much too fast. Professional runners actually have healthier knees than cyclists, on average. This is because the impact of running causes the sinovial fluid in the knees to cycle more frequently and keep the joint in better shape.
Running is also an excellent way to keep lean and not have to be autistic about your diet.
Running won't turn you into a hungry marathon skeleton unless you specifically train for that, just like you won't get "too big" from lifting.
You can't just do sprints either, you need to include some slower runs to build an aerobic base.
Running is not like lifting, don't push through the pain, especially if it's in your joint. Listen to your body, do some fast runs, do some slow runs, and have a good time.
10mins of running A WEEK
JUST TEN MINUTES
-30% all cause mortality
10 MINUTES A WEEK, for a 30% life buff, why the frick wouldn't you
Probably in comparison to being completely sedentary. It won't make a difference if you already lift.
Post your pink soft babyfeet you amerishart, at least make us laugh if you already spout your shit opinions all day.
>Post your pink soft babyfeet
Nice "No u" idiot! He's the one who sounds like he runs you're the soft grandma saying "10 minutes of walking a day to keep the doctor away!!!" Post your tubby boomer breasts!
>mark rippetoe
into the trash it goes
Why run when swimming and cycling are 20x superior?
Cycling is boring as shit tho. It takes too much time to get the same workout in.
I'm all for swimming tho, really like it.
>Cycling is boring as shit tho. It takes too much time to get the same workout in
I see you've never done uphill HIIT sprints on a heavy mountain bike.
It's OK, it's a known fact homos and DYEL prefer road bikes.
I swim. Bikes are too much hassle and I like the "just lace up your nikeys and roon" aspect of rooning.
>listening to Nippletoe
You should be sprinting. Everywhere, out in the streets in business clothes, with a terrified look in your face. Cant charge you with disturbing the peace if they can't catch you
Cycling is just as good cardio without joint risk.
Sprint toward females walking alone after dark.
The question is, is Hercules right?
just laced up my shoes, about to go for a cruisy 5k
i weigh 84 kilograms
see you lads in 30 minutes
Reminder that:
Running increases all-cause mortality
Running increases cancer mortality
Running causes hypertrophic cardiomiopathy
Running lowers testosterone
Running kills your knees
Running kills your gains
Running doesn't impress women
Running is not good for weight loss
Running is not a social sport
Running is boring
Cycling, swimming, or rowing lead to better, faster, less time-consuming cardio gains while having a lower injury rate
Running requires spending hundreds of dollars on overpriced foam shoes
>be me
>used to run
>start lifting, drop cardio
>go indoor bouldering with friend
>exhausted after literally 10 minutes of beginner routes
I'll keep on running Mark thank you
Get a bike, lift heavy. Running is for morons that refuse to accept older people that ran have fricked knees, hips and ankles "for some unknown reason, prolly genetics durrr".
Weak pathetic fricks run.
t. fat man with erectile dysfunction
The reason cycling may cause ED is that the seat puts constant pressure on the perineum—the area between the genitals and anus. This pressure can harm nerves and temporarily slow blood flow, which causes tingling or numbness in the penis and, eventually, ED.
Some people will never run correctly and get injured. Same with lifting.
I just want the total package including strength, cardio fitness and flexibility.
Starting at 32 as a heavy smoker, 5'11 roughly 80kg.
Thinking progressively increasing body weight exercise, stretching and 20 min daily walking/ jogging progressing into interval sprinting.
You're not gonna get anywhere with body weight shit, stretching does frick all and you can't get anything resembling a real workout in 20 minutes (at least not as an untrained couch potato with poptart lung).
Lift 2-3 times per week and walk 2 hours during your off days. You can throw in some sprinting as needed.
If you don't have that much time for walking then go for low-impact high-intensity cardio like swimming, biking, stairmastergayging, etc.
A summary of his arguments https://startingstrength.com/article/why-you-should-not-be-running:
>1. Strength is the ability to produce force with your muscles against an external resistance
> Quite literally, the more you run, the better you are at running and the worse you are at being strong.
>2. Endurance training is directly antagonistic to the creation and retention of muscle mass.
>This fundamental fact of physiology explains the typical appearance of the average 80-year-old person: skinny, in the arms and legs anyway.[...]But it's also a result of the fact that we choose to do fewer things that require strength, and therefore fewer things that maintain the size of our muscles. [...]And much of the responsibility for the problem of incorrect activity selection lies with the “experts” who tell us that endurance exercise – the kind that is measured in minutes, not pounds lifted – is really the most important thing to do to stay healthy.
>3. The reason we're so concerned with “cardio” is that we've become indoctrinated into the belief that activity that elevates the heart rate for an extended period of time is the only way to keep the heart healthy.
>Despite the fact that a huge amount of data demonstrates that the heart gets sufficient stimulation in the performance of correctly-designed strength training, and that diet is a far more important factor in the prevention of heart disease than exercise[...]running at high mileages actively destroys muscle mass. This is why elite cyclists and marathoners have a ribcage that is visible through their corporate sponsorship jerseys.
>4. Repetitive motion injuries like tendonitis are quite common in people who engage in high-volume endurance activity
>Seldom do you hear: “Your legs aren't really strong enough to retain proper stride mechanics when you get tired at the end of your run. Maybe you should think about running less and getting your squat stronger.”
that's all nice and gay if you want to get strong. If you want to be able to run a mile without dying... you better start doing cardio. Only an american could ever get the idea that using your legs to move is not a practical or desirable function but squatting 200 kg is.
>Rippetoe
He's just jealous
The anti-running conspirators are always those bitter fat cuckolds who just love to blab about how others should live their lives. People run because running makes them feel good, but fat cuckolds want you to be miserable like them.
ive seen a lot of oddly shaped and unhealthy looking runners tho. Actually I don't think runners look healthy unless they also spend time in the gym
Don't care, didn't ask. Keep seething at other people enjoying their time.
>if you dont run it makes you look fat
>i dont care how runners look
>stop making me feel bad!!!!
i literally just stated there are odd shaped people that run marathons you sperg. calm down a bit
I'm not saying that lack of cardio makes one fat. I'm saying (You) are a fat looser who has nothing better to do than try to bring others down. Case in point: Rippetoe. Maybe he's a good coach, but he's literally a fat cuckold. No wonder he's going to try and shit on runners.
I hear about more knee injuries from runners than I do with any other sport. Yet we got dyels talkin about risk/reward ratio of deadlifts despite squats causing most injuries when it comes to lifting.
I swear everyone is so frickin moronic when it comes to fitness, even when the evidence is shown throughout your entire life in school or through work colleagues
most people have shit technique. They een land on their heels. bare-foot running is where it's at. Try it, you INSTANTLY start to run different cause you just FEEL your normal way is not good for you. Shoes frick up alot more than people think.
i jump rope, its a time issue for me. I can't fit everything into my day. Even when I do have time, I don't run or jog. Ill sprint though. Anything but running/jogging
Great idea. Beach running barefoot improved my technique greatly when I was new rooooner
Running is decent, just run max 6h and min 3h a week, do some hindu squats on top and you have calisthenics lower body day with some decent cardio.
>Just under train your legs so you can LARP as a brown street shitter who never invented iron plates
No! Work all your leg muscles with weights! Don't rely on Street Shitter Squats! If you guys listen to this wannabe brown you're going to get injured from imbalances.
Nobody said NOT working out with weights.
> Imbalances.
Kek, gym freaks are the ones with the most unbalanced bodies.
Either way nobody said training with weights is bad, plus if you are a fighter, those plyometric squats increase your kicking and wrestling skills like you wouldn't believe.
I walk like a penguin or a guy who shit his pants
Turns out I don't have an ass I just have back fat. Oof.
Mark rippetoe at 54 compared to crossfit boomers
Rippetoe was always a mistake
>Mark Ripped-A-Toe
Here’s my question. I’m 6’ 4”, 270 pounds, I’ve been doing two hours a day, one hour jogging intervals and the other hour with max incline walking at 3 mph
My question is, is there any cardiovascular downside to this much? Athletes do tons more im sure
> 270lbs.
Not really other than maybe hurting your joints in the long run as a fatty when they aren't used to moving.
Cardiovascular? Absolutely not, but it might be too much volume for your body. Regular people are completely bottlenecked by their shit bodies and it's almost impossible to stress your heart enough unless you've been training hard for at least a year (or you're on meth).
If you are a complete novice to lifting and are brute forcing your way up in weight for squats and deadlifts it makes sense to stop running for a month or two
Otherwise Mark is silly
If you’re a strength athlete then he’s right. If you’re just a person that wants to look good and feel good you should probably do some running but sprints and walking will be better.