Is muay thai the most beginner-friendly martial art?
 CRIME Shirt $21.68 |
 UFOs Are A Psyop Shirt $21.68 |
CRIME Shirt $21.68 |
Is muay thai the most beginner-friendly martial art?
Is muay thai the most beginner-friendly martial art?
CRIME Shirt $21.68 |
UFOs Are A Psyop Shirt $21.68 |
CRIME Shirt $21.68 |
If you’re going to a muay thai gym in America you aren’t actually going to a Muay Thai gym
Sure thing buddy.
If youre having sex with Thai ladyboys in America you arent actually having sex with Thai ladyboys
I went to a Muay Thai gym for awhile and they pretty much trained on the bag a lot and then threw me in the sparring area to get my ass kicked til I learned to block and fight back
Successful bait I’ll buy a pack please
This is true, for every 1 good muay thai gym there's 5 others that advertise it while being watered down kickboxing or MMGay "striking". I literally saw this one gym doing sprawls and flying knees in their "fundamental muay thai" class
It's literally simplified kickboxing with standing grappling, they don't get into fancier shit which is part of the allure for people who suck at shit.
You have it backwards. Kickboxing doesn't have as many tools: clinch, elbows, certain knees, sweeps, dumps. What I'm saying is that places advertise themselves as muay thai then proceed to not do the things that makes muay thai muay thai. They basically just do Dutch kickboxing, which is what that first anon was saying. This is generally why american muay thai gets shit on internationally but its been changing slowly
The way some of the smaller guys are it's intense but fighting at 150 vs 250 is just 2 whole different things they deserve an entirely different rendition of whatever martial art is being used.
Only someone built as frick can jump with their punch and keep going through, body punches are something much more present at higher weight classes.
At the end of the day who teaches the sensei or coach, who do they seriously spar besides actual competetition?
I'd be more worried about someone honing their skills against a bag and competing training all day than someone at a gym. If you're really that good you won't have a sparring partner that'll do you any good.
No. Boxing is
No, because most westerners lack the hip mobility to kick well at all
Boxing is fine because no kicks
Judo is also great
how long do you think it takes to stretch enough to do simple roundhouse kicks or front kicks/teeps? I would bet the average person stretching every other day for a week or two would be fine. someone super sedentary a month max. it simply doesnt take long and requires little effort.
It's more how well you stretch than anything, it opens up power which is way more important. Side and hook kicks are what require the most flexibility do those after each session to track your progress. 20 minutes a day is plenty if you're doing the right shit.
muy thai is for smol azn peepo.
5'5 120 lb guys striking like this is far less force than a bigger dude
t. never been kicked
Dutch style works well for large fighters.
>guy tries to punch you
>jump into his guard and elbow his head
>????
Doesn't work as much against someone who can dip your punches let alone elbows to wrestle. That's why the focus of my training has been throwing at 100% with my whole body and footwork to get nasty range with full power.
if some guy is trying to rush you with a combination of bunching boxing punches they arent going to dodge you jumping into them and elbowing 12-6 on their head or their clavicle
just teach yourself im not talking about fighting in a competition im talking about self defense.
The answer to that is wrestling, if you're currently getting bull rushed you can't really kick them in the chest, maybe the head if your really quick but no power from that close.
I always figured the best way to use an elbow was after a jab or cross then to kinda jump with it. I never understood trying to hit accurately with it or use it by itself. You can hit so hard with an elbow it doesn't matter if you hit anywhere between the forehead to shoulder of it lands its doing damage.
Go hit a bag and go all in with it going through and jump way in. Works way better with a punch before it to really get the shoulder rebound and get your whole core into it.
if someone is rushing you, you can back kick them. you can do a sliding side kick also. but frankly i would prefer jumping up towards them into their center of gravity and elbowing their head which will destabilize them even if they block it somehow and stop their momentum. you can put your hands around their head in a clinch and knee them afterwords even if it failed, but it stops their rush. frick wrestling.
if someone is trying to overwhelm you with a forward rush and a flurry of punches i like the direct response of overwhelming them back in a way they cant respond to. if one of their stupid haymackers hits you it wont connect at all. even if a jumping elbow doesnt land, like i said you negate their momentum entirely.
Oooh I came up with a rear front kick for against a rush. You move your legs like you're switching stances and jump a bit early to save distance and lean to the opposite shoulder and try to dig your heel into their gut. It's meant to use rotational power when you can't lunge.
That and I'm also working on leaping punches.
But yeah the back kick is the nastiest counter there is. I love side kicks of all variations, if you're really good your power range is insanely long with a slide but you always have to be good at timing planting your foot to dig in.
based what do you practice? when i practiced i did a little of everything, karate, tkd, muai thai, and just enough jiujitsu to keep myself able to fight standing up.
im not super familiar with "rules" of muai thai" i just learned moves i thought were effective for self defense and that stuff helped me fortunately and unfortunately later in life. (getting into street self defense scenarios suck even if you win)
But that's exactly how the hard core musy thai guys use it. They juke someone's hands and timing and break th rhythm with it.
They usually walk off after it lands because an elbow is the most common way someone's face gets way fricked up.
i didnt read the thread i just am commenting saying that people ignorantly thinking muat thai isnt effective just are ignorant. its direct and effective.
They need side kicks in may Thai. You can throw something between a side and front kick from the back leg for a counter, still prefer my stance switch (slightly) jumping rear front kick though, shit has torque.
>They need side kicks in may Thai
Well many fighters use side teeps, Tawanchai most notably.
But theres a reason only the teep, low kick and roundhouse are used. Because they are simply the most powerful and effective kicks. More flashy kicks lack utility and power.
>flashy
I will always try to use a jumping scissor kick. Also the first one to be heading to you fast with a side kick is the one who's gonna hit you hard or make you move. Also side kicks are like a dead lift they hit the hardest hands down try and break half as many boards on a front kick to a wide kick.
>wrestling during self defense or during a random assault
>guys puts you in a guillotine
>bite a chunk out of their abdomen
>?????????
i would never grapple in a street fight or in self defense its too dangerous. someone can also stab you.
Everything other than kicks (which risks falling over) gets you within stabbing range. It's irrelevant. If you're trained in wrestling, obviously you should try to throw someone to the ground and run away.
Most people instinctually know how to block a punch, few if any people know how to sprawl properly.
>few if any people know how to sprawl properly
but what if the other guy is also a wrestler or judoka?
checkmate atheists
if you can run away then run away theres no logical sense in grappling and throwing someone before doing it. If youre trying to make distance then just kick them. if you fall a low front kick you havent practiced it enough and if the terrain is that fricked up you are going to fall either way trying to grapple on it.
there are plenty of stories of bouncers putting someone in various holds and then getting stabbed by the guy and not even knowing it happened right away. its just a risky idea.
Being good at grappling puts you in a better spot to punch or kick them, jiu-jitsu jitsu is technically grappling but it isn't wrestling.
i dont agree but i will hear you out. to me jiujitsu and wrestling are both wrestling. jiujitsu just has more stand up manipulation. to me its splitting hairs putting them in seperate categories. having good footwork, positioning, and spacial awareness of your surroundings put you in just as good if not a better position i would argue.
Most muay thai places don't teach you much elbows until you've trained for a long time, since elbows aren't allowed in many amateur comps.
I get the feeling it’s kind of the opposite.
I’d say judo is beginner-friendly.
maybe not the most but every gym ive trained had a lot of rotation in students so big change you can train with other beginners.
Bareknuckle boxing is the path to take if you want to get paid for fighting but you haven't trained from birth some martial art like everyone in the UFC or conventional boxing.
why
Low bar of entry, better payouts than BJJ or low level MMA, no huge skill gap and industry of nepotism like with regular boxing. The bareknuckle promotions are desperate for talent, especially the heavier you are.
Oh and bareknuckle is young so they haven't "figured it out" so people can't even figure out what guards work yet. It's like early UFC where people were becoming draws and their background was "street brawling"
Not to mention it’s a million times safer than gloved sports. Your face will look like hamburger but nobody will be swinging full power at your skull without any knuckle protection.
>Not to mention it’s a million times safer than gloved sports
No it isn't. This is just moronic bro science.
You WILL get injuries that will completely end your fighting career, at a much higher likelihood than gloved fighting sports.
Yeah people who aren't as sure of themselves will always go too far in sparring no matter the martial art. You'll be going 70% on someone and pulling pulling punches then they fricking slam your body with a roundhouse it's like dude say something first are you mentally ill or something.
What do you mean by "beginner-friendly"? If you mean by risk of injury and accessibility - no, muay thai is not the most beginner friendly. Arts with emphasis on kata (karate, aikido, hapkido, tai chi, etc) or extremely low safety risk (fencing) tend to be the most "beginner-friendly" in their pedagogy, because you don't require prior athleticism or technique training to avoid injury in live sparring: the point of kata historically. That said, kyokushin karate is one of the most physically demanding styles out there, and hardcore aikido schools in Japan will train 40 hours a week with an intense pace that could of course result in injury if you're not studying properly. It's all about perspective. Karate and aikido aren't known as the badasses of combat sports, especially in a "make me a badass as fast as possible" martial arts economy. Remember that martial arts is a PROCESS and it's a long process if you're serious. If you have no prior training or are looking to get fit, learning something like those listed above isn't bad at all depending on the gym/club. Join a cardio kickboxing class, they're everywhere - see what you like. If you're putting work into your strength and conditioning, have time to dedicate to an art, and don't mind be humbled - by all means go for something like muay thai, explore. If you're serious, just respect the process as a life-long one, that requires constant training, physical conditioning, and new learning strategies - this is martial arts after all.
t. sport (epee) and historical (longsword) fencer, bjj, and hapkido guy
Anything involving kata for more than 10-15% of training (basically a warmup before the real shit) isn't even a martial arts. It's a homosexual dance routine.
Any martial art is going to have a steep learning curve. You're going to get your butt kicked in sparring, which you should be doing. And it's always going to seem insurmountable at first. Just gotta grit your teeth and power through it. Be consistent. Eventually you'll become the one beating up the newbies, but still likely have a hard time with the people who've been there longer. It's part of the process. There is no beginner friendly martial art. But that's what makes you part of a select few who actually go through it instead of doing gay katas while learning nothing of any value.
>There is no beginner friendly martial art.
Precisely, but the question was
>Is muay thai the most beginner-friendly martial art?
We teach children hapkido and taekwondo at my gym, and it's extremely accessible for them. Whereas, I would not teach a child muay thai - who hasn't even learned how to fall properly yet. Training, mentality, prior experience, and deciding what you want from a martial art should all be considered, and strictly speaking combat sports are not for everyone. Some people want acrobatics - wushu and taekwondo are for them. Some people want self defense - hapkido and bjj are for them. Some people want culture - kyokushin and judo are for them. Some people want sport - etc etc.....
On the note of kata. Kata as a pedagogical strategy was designed explicitly for the beginner, when safety equipment wasn't a factor: learning a style through muscle memory and flow drill, ultimately prepares you for live sparring. This has always been the defacto martial arts curriculum. You're correct that there is no substitute for live sparring, but there is always a place for kata in every art - even when it takes the form as flow drills, pad work, or positional sparring. Every art uses kata, and every sport uses sparring - both are necessary for being well-rounded, I'm just answering OP's question honestly.
I read this in the voice of the nerdy lanklet from Cobra Kai
Muay thai is fun, way easier on the body than BJJ or boxing is
My personal experience, boxers spar less, but way harder, while muay thai spars more, but way less hard
Could have just been my own experiences though
Bjj is gonna frick your body up quick tho
-purple belt
Are you regularly competing? Training hard all the time? I’m a 4 stripe blue and my body is doing great.
Eh maybe 2-3 comps a year, I think alot of it has to do with me being smaller (165)
So far I'm two hernias and a back surgery deep (herniated disc) among countless other joint injuries lol
>Bjj is gonna frick your body up quick tho
BJJ is much easier on your body than judo is
>gay OP with dumb shit ass post
>remember friend who said his nose got cut open from an elbow
No, no, I don't think it is.
I have done three martial arts, including Muay Thai.
One thing that is particularly beginner friendly about Muay Thai is that the general fighting stance is really easy. It is very close to just standing naturally.
This is not the case for boxing, which generally required really strong leg muscles and a constant squat position, or Karate that involves an uncomfortably wide stance.
I think Muay Thai kicks are simpler too.
That is kind of the extent of the beginner friendliness I can thing of though.
A good trick is to practice doing goku kicks and stay wicked flexible, that's how you use sideways stance to be quick on the front leg or you can throw a back kick without telegraphing. Just remember to only practice your real form and not exercises against a heavy bag, if you kick someone and they don't go down you're fricked.
from
>guy catches your roundhouse
>jump towards him and pull him to you with your leg he caught
>elbow him in the head
>??????????????????????????????????????
What? I'm just giving advice on pure kickboxing instead of muay Thai which is supposed to be more brutal and heavy techniques which I always liked. Thing about that is try blocking a full force side kick with someone's whole body weight, even someone 150lbs throwing that is not something anyone wants to take.
no im saying if you kick someone and they dont go down it isnt the end of the world it can work in your benefit if they catch you kick and you use that to your advantage and pull them to you into an elbow. no one expects it. just dont get swept before you do it.
I wouldn't wanna train myself to catch kicks anyways its a bad habit for when someone with real power comes along and roundhouses your arm and it goes numb.
i dont like the idea of catching kicks either. im this guy
and i would spar and catch kicks and sweep them, which felt good. but as i got better and learned more about self defense and muai thai, i learned that someone can feed you a kick and allow you to catch it, because they plan on you catching it to lower your arm, so they can jump towards you off one foot, and elbow you in the head. so i would recommend catching a kick in general. but against an untrained fighter it obviously would work.
would *not* recommend catching a kick
What kinda of weightlifting do you use to help martial arts?
My favorite lately are:
>lots of ohp and bench with rows and pull-ups to keep it even
>lots of cleans and hang cleans
>arms and forearms for wrist strength
>hill sprints and heavy bag for cardio
>abs and neck shit for punching power
The best shit I found for wrist solidity is hiding your arms straight out like a front delt raise and letting your wrists go all the way slack and twist and do both sides, maybe raise a lil above straight out. Also doing the same wrist technique with triceps push downs, face pulls, and those rehab shoulder cable pimpslap things.
thats probably more than sufficient, i dont weightlift half as much as i did in the past, just enough that my body feel solid. i think having a base strength foundation is key for injury prevention and being able to perform explosive movements, but i think beyond a point it has diminishing returns. doesnt matter how strong you are if you dont practice the movements and can execute them properly. you already know that im sure, just saying i dont put as much emphasis on strength these days past what i see as useful, and use the extra time to practice form. My job includes a lot of hiking and carrying weight so a lot of my cardio and exercise i tailor toward my job. just making an analogy.
I put on some weight and muscle after I quit martial arts and even without constant practice my power is nasty.
But yeah I hit harder than anyone I met at my weight or near my lifts it's all about the reflexes and muscle memory. But I have been on a fitness crusade and want to look like this dude
>
Upper body adds like no weight and you don't wanna have huge legs if you wanna be flexible. There's nobody with over a 5pl8 squat that can do anything but a front kick. Get fricking blown out by some 160lb chank rice asiatic who can legitimately break their ribs.
muscle memory is key, im not saying dont put on mass, im just saying with my limited free time i have during most of the year, my training goes more into cardio, functional lifts, and sparring. If I had more time during a normal year i might put more into weightlifting.
You can have the muscle memory to perform the technique even after a long time but the main thing i found is that if you go for a long period of time without practicing or sparring, you will lose your sense of timing and spacing and other less tangible things. or the mental flexibility of transitioning from one move to the next.
Spend 2k and you have 5pl8s+ on a barbell, a full squat rack, 2 squat rack pulleys for pec flies, 2 sets of 1inchpl8 dumbbells, a lat pull down that doubles as a tricep pull down, and an ezbar.
If you're busy it's the difference between several 30 minute gym sessions and the drive time to and from the gym alone. I'd suggest mixing your lifting with drinking too there's maybe a 10% difference in absolute peak difference if the science is right but it isn't.
>It can work to your benefit if they catch your kick
If you think stuff like this then you can't fight.
whats your argument? ive won countless fights. can you give me a single reason why if someone catches your kick, that you cant respond to it by jumping towards them and elbowing them? You bend your knee in as you close distance and you pull with your hamstring before you initiate the jump which draws them into you. if that elbow connects theyre going to let go. if they dont then you can do it again, or pull your leg out if they loosened their grip.
if someone catches your leg and you try to spin around to pull it out, if that doesnt work you can tear something. its safer as well.
What kinds of fights did you win? Tell me about them.
It is a bad position to be in where someone has your leg. I don't care what you can do from that position, it is a bad position. Whatever you think you can do while your opponent is holding your leg, they are in a better position to hurt you.
all street fights and self defense which isnt the same as fighting a trained fighter which i will admit but the stakes are higher and the adrenaline is a lot higher than when i was doing controlled sparring.
i can elaborate on that stuff if you want.
the leg thing works, theres a reason it works in muai thai competition. when someone grabs your leg they think they have the advantage, and most people will panic when their leg is caught because suddenly theyre a fish out of water. if you have any tools to flip that scenario around at all even from a compromised position like that and put pressure back on your opponent you have a solid chance of recovering if not turning it into your advantage.
you arent understanding. you cannot sweep someone if you have one of their legs, but their other leg is off the ground because theyre in the air traveling towards you.
If you catch someones right kick with your left arm, your left side which is facing them is unguarded, but they have both of their hands free. you cant elbow them while youre holding their leg. and in the time it takes for you to realize theyre jumping toward you because theyve practiced for this exact moment, you arent going to get your left arm up to "elbow them back harder" and even if you do, it isnt going to connect with purchase because theyre jumping.
what im describing negates the scenario of you controling them making them hop because theyre jumping into you- not trying to escape. i dont care if you dont believe me you can find videos of this in competition you seem emotionally invested in not wanting to believe this works. I didnt say its a better position to be in. what i said is that even in that position you CAN turn it to your advantage. no move works 100% of the time.
>you cannot sweep someone if you have one of their legs, but their other leg is off the ground
Yes you can. You can still kick them off balance if their leg is in the air. You can also dump them, just by picking the caught leg up higher and using it as a lever to slam their body into the ground.
Sorry anon but you have no idea what you're talking about. Every single time someone catches a leg they have the advantage, they don't magically stand still and allow you to counter them. As soon as it's caught they are sweeping you, dumping you, sliding in for the knee, throwing an overhand at your unguarded face, or even dropping and returning with a round house to your unguarded body before you have any time to regain your balance and composure.
Shown me some videos of this working in real muay thai fights.
You can watch dozens of hours of stadium fights and the person who catches will always win the exchange.
Also most times when a kick is caught the catcher will instantly start plowing, you simply won't have the balance to jump in and elbow with any kind of force. At most the best you can do is jump up and down the standing leg to avoid being dumped, because under muay thai rules can only take two steps after catching a kick.
>the leg thing works, theres a reason it works in muai thai competition. when someone grabs your leg they think they have the advantage
I don't think it does. There is a former pro-fighter youtuber named Ramsey Dewey, who tried attacking while his opponent held his leg. He got punched in the head and suffered a career ending skull fracture.
I have long, strong, and flexible legs. So when I spar I often get my legs caught. I am always proud of how well I can hop around on one foot, but I have no illusion that it is a _good_ position, or that I have any realistic ability to counter attack from there.
Your striking power comes from your connection to the ground, you can't punch hard while hopping around on one foot. You can't control your distance if they are holding your leg. I don't really believe you that you can move in while your opponent holds your leg. You can try bending your leg to close the space, but they can also bend your leg, in all kinds of gnarly ways.
You are talking about all these Muay Thai guys getting surprised by attacks from someone who's leg is caught. Man, what footage are you looking at? I have seen all kinds of footage, including someone caughting their opponents leg, and then kneeing them in the thigh repeatedly. Horrific.
>you cannot sweep someone if you have one of their legs, but their other leg is off the ground because theyre in the air traveling towards you.
Total moron comment.
You absolutely can sweep someone who is off the ground. Why not? The sweep pushes their supporting leg, even if their supporting leg is airborne. You will rotate a person mid air if you sweep their leg.
ive been here for a half hour and im bored so im going to leave this for now. didnt read these.
My friend back in 2014 went to thailand for months to train muai thai, he did his for about 3 or 4 years in a row, maybe more, competing in tournaments and eventually becoming a trainer here.
They taught him the counter im trying to describe to you, because it works, and i saw him use it in competition against other fighters. The moment his leg got caught, there was no hesitation, and before his opponent could capitalize on their advantage, he hopped into them, bent his knee to facilitate getting as close as possible, and elbowed them in the head, which got his leg back.
This is just one isolated example and they wouldnt use moves like these if they didnt work. Most of my comments here have been in the context of self defense. im not that interested in the theory of what *might happen* against two guys who have each trained their entire life. and regardless of whatever counters you guys are describing, even if they could be pulled off, to argue that this doest ever work or cant work is stupid and makes no sense. its all semantics. no technique will work every time. but like ive reiterated to the point where im no longer reading your responses, if you have various responses even to being in conventionally disadvantageous positions, you are way more likely to win than someone who doesnt plan for or doesnt expect things to go wrong.
My experience in fighting has all been in self defense, which is why i dont really care again about anything that isnt direct and reliable. whatever knowledge or opinion i have, comes from life experience, not theory.
I'm curious. Can you post body with timestamp? I wanna see how far your training has taken you as I'm gonna pick up a martial art in a year or two.
>can you give me a single reason why if someone catches your kick, that you cant respond to it by jumping towards them and elbowing them
Because they control your entire weight once they have your leg. They can dump you to the ground or even step in to elbow you WITH MORE FORCE AND FASTER than you ever could hopping on one leg and being at their mercy. As soon as you try to 'jump towards them' then can just swing you to the ground, once your back foot is off the ground they have an even greater level of control.
Youre always at a disadvantage having your kick caught. Every single time. Unless youre sparring with some noob who has a weak hold and is just holding it for the sake of holding it, but why would you retaliate with an elbow to the face in sparring?
Try out my jumping rear roundhouse.
>stand more like a sprint
>jump with both legs aiming to put your body like 2ft to the right of them(I'm southpaw in this example)
>head down and to the side bringing your body with it
>turn your right shoulder down and twist
>have to practice to learn when to twist but you really gotta go through
>instead of switch your hands and keep balance with your upper body, throw both of them to the right
You won't land nice like any really hard kick, that's why I always practice on a heavy bag my style isn't as much trading or max range it's more about waiting till you have the opportunity to throw something that they can't do anything about.
It hurts way too much against a heavy bag but one of these to the body and you can't catch it you have to dodge it.
A lot of striking sports neglect that they often stand rather than go in to wrestle out of habit.
A wrestler will be way more hesitant trying to close distance on someone who can knock them out with their lead hand, I figure skill and power is the reason anyone can get into your range.
Even if I was a d1 wrestler I'm gonna be a little more careful trying to get underhooks on picrel.
can you elaborate on the point youre trying to make? i dont understand. I sparred in jiujitsu enough to keep myself standing up as much as i can. it just isnt what i use if i can control whats happening.
ill say this, in a fight much of winning is not being predictable. a guy who grapples will always make the assumption (typically anyway) that once theyve caught their opponent, their opponent has no tools left. the very fricking last thing most grapplers will expect when they catch your leg, is for you to pull them to you making them get even closer, as you hop into their center of gravity elbowing them. Its a super simple concept.
I mean it's hard to mix kickboxing with really high tier boxing without being obvious in your stance(feet forward vs L). I think there's a huge gap in skill and training.
You never see someone with confidence in their hands and feet to be able to use either as bait. There's been both expert level boxing and kicking but not "kickboxing." Maybe I just have high standards but I've been watching and practicing kickboxing and hate grappling it's a cope martial art to me existent because of a lack of absolute expertise.