Is seed oil hatred (e.g. veg oil, canola oil) valid or a meme? Why or why not? Proof?
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Is seed oil hatred (e.g. veg oil, canola oil) valid or a meme? Why or why not? Proof?
Idk bro it was previously machine lubricant and then some scientists did some shit with it and say you can eat it. You can trust the ~~*experts*~~ if you want
Animal fat used to be used for lubricants, perfumes, burning oils? I'm not pro sneed oils but this has to be the worst argument against them.
You cant throw animal fat in a fricking engine and make it run, there is a difference moron.
>implying
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/animal-fat-tyson-renewable-fuel
Lol FUEL not OIL, stop being a moronic homosexual
Notice: It’s easier to make diesel from animal fat than from vegetable oils
> To make biodiesel, fats in the vegetable oil are reacted with a form of alcohol—usually methanol—to form the biodiesel molecule. For renewable diesel made from animal fat, fats are hydrogenated by reacting the tallow with hydrogen under high pressure at high temperature. The result is a molecule that's basically a pure—but synthetic—hydrocarbon, which means it's chemically identical to regular diesel.
All you need to do is heat it under pressure. So enjoy eating your industrial diesel slop every day, meatgay
My god you are stupid, you are talking about DIESEL, which catagorizes as FUEL, not OIL. Go and empty the oil out of your lawn mower, refill it with butter, and tell us how it goes
Engines run on fuel and that’s what you were sperging about first. But sure use of animal fats as oil goes even longer back in history. Ignorant schizo imbecile.
Source: my ass
Whale oil for example. And what do you think people burned in lamps and made soap with before earth oil was discovered? Jesus you carnivore larping furries are ignorant. And no I refuse to call you “people” you’re dumber than shoe.
They specifically used whale oil in transmissions for anti-rust. Your point about the lamps is proving me exactly right. They used it to burn and create light momentarily where it burned away afterwards, not to withstand the high degrees of an engine. Theres a difference in heat tolerance that im trying to explain but your clearly trolling or moronic
It’s clear to everyone that you’re an imbecile, thanks
Go outside
>you can't run engine with animal fat!!!111
>heres article about turning animal fat to diesel
>noooo engines dont run on fuel they run on oill!!!!11
kek
>You cant throw animal fat in a fricking engine and make it run, there is a difference moron.
Lets dissect this statement together since mommy didnt teach you how to read. I said you cannot put animal fat into an engine and then turn it on and make it run. When you pull into the gas station, do you open up your oil cap and put the gas into the engine? I bet you do lol
>you cannot put animal fat into an engine and then turn it on and make it run.
you can with like rapeseed oil etc?
oh shit water used to be used as engine coolant and we also drink it. Frick water is bad.
Me after quitting seed oils
seed oils oxidizes much faster than animal fats
Therefor you cells die much faster.
Bro don't look now but there's oxygen in your blood cells
https://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsaturated-oils.shtml
https://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fishoil.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/coconut-oil.shtml
https://www.jeffnobbs.com/posts/death-by-vegetable-oil-what-the-studies-say
https://chriskresser.com/should-you-really-be-taking-fish-oil/
https://chriskresser.com/how-too-much-omega-6-and-not-enough-omega-3-is-making-us-sick/
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/know-your-fats/precious-yet-perilous/
https://men-elite.com/2018/06/28/pufa-dangers-part-1-storage-mobilization-and-oxidation/
https://www.functionalps.com/blog/2011/11/26/fish-oil-toxicity/
https://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/04/22/fatty-acid-composition-of-diet-reflected-in-fat-tissue/
https://anthonycolpo.com/the-great-polyunsaturated-swindle-new-research-reveals-previously-hidden-findings/
At least watch the documentary.
Or read some Ray Peat articles.
Fast food is filled with it.
Causes a lot of serious health effects.
Health blogs in the 2010s were all saying how inflammation is the root of most diseases and omega 6 is the root cause of most of this inflammation. They just needed to make one more leap to say that seed oils are the number one source of omega 6 in the diet by far.
People will whine about 2g of sugar in their doritos, but be ignorant of the 20g of high omega 6 seed oils.
are pistachios ok once in a while
Yeah a few handfuls aren't going to matter.
Americanskis are eating like 30% of their diet from seed oils, because it's in all processed foods and takeout food.
this vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQmqVVmMB3k that mentioned is the best normie friendly intro
its way deeper than this tho and you need a good intuition of how metabolism works in order to fully understand why
peat emphasises that energy is inseperable from structure at every level
this is not just a metaphysical statement, at a material level mitochondrial metabolism is the basis of all higher cell function, your cells will literally fall apart when energy production is disturbed simply bc it cant "power" the enzymes which maintain the cell
peat (pbuh) wouldnt like this explanation bc its too mechanical, the cell is not a car
"energy" in metabolism is the movement of electrons, and the flow of electrons itself through glycolysis and oxphos metabolism creates order and structure in the cell
this gets technical but just remember that energy produces structure and vice versa
pufa directly interferes with energy production at nearly every level, from endocrinological to basic mitochondrial metabolism
just going off memory, PUFA (polyunsaturated fat, dont use the term "seed oil" bc it ignores pufa from other sources like fish, more on that later) inhibits the conversion of t4 to t3 in the liver
t3 is the main active thyroid hormone while t4 is the inactive form, thyroid hormone is responsible for regulating the metabolic rate
remember, energy creates structure, you want a high metabolic rate so that cells and the organism at large is able to maintain a high degree of structure and differentiation
a low energetic state is what leads to disintegration of structure and in the extreme, cells become cancerous
on a more IST level, think of structure and differentiation as steve reeves, the other end of the spectrum is my 1000 pound life
back to thyroid: inhibiting t4 to t3 conversion means less t3 (active thyroid hormone), which means lower metabolic rate and less energy
subjectively this means you become lethargic [...]
(you start hibernating, literally), your cognition becomes cloudy, you start becoming fat, structure starts falling apart
on a more serious material level, cells arent kept in top shape and systems start disfunctioning, all chronic diseases are marked by (and caused by) an energy deficiency
cancer, alzheimers, heart disease, all of it (i wont go into the mechanisms for each disease bc this is already too long)
pufa is also directly estrogenic, its able to directly bind to estrogen receptors, but its also estrogenic in a number of secondary ways. for one, when cell metabolism is deficient (such as in the hypothyroid state aforementioned), estrogen skyrockets bc testosterone and progesterone are difficult to produce, it takes energy. but also, aromatase is upregulated and testosterone gets converted to estrogen at a greater rate.
the other way its estrogenic is that pufa is required for the production of prostaglandins, which are *extremely* estrogenic and inflammatory.
estrogens are bad bc they induce the cell to move toward a "grow and divide" state versus the ideal, highly differentiated state (think about 1000 pound blob vs steve reeves again).
we all know estrogen will give you gyno, kill your confidence and mental state, kill your gains, etc
but more importantly it promotes the breakdown of structure, lower life
and at a cellular level that means cancer and all the other chronic conditions i mentioned
then there is oxidation, which everyone likes to focus on
pufa oxidises very easily, so easily in fact that the sneed oils you buy are already rancid and when you cook with them they are oxidising and creating lipid peroxides ("free radicals") at an insanely high rate. more important is the fact that they oxidise inside the body.
when pufa is oxidised, the molecule "breaks" and forms lipid peroxides which are powerful oxidisers that "attack" and "break" other molecules.
when pufa "breaks" down into lipid peroxides, these can further [...]
"attack" other pufa molecules further breaking them down into more lipid peroxides, causing a chain reaction
when someone eats pufa, its stored in cell membranes and mitochondrial membranes
when enough pufa is stored in mitochondrial membranes, this oxidation cascade can happen and destabilise the membrane to such an extent that the membranes fall apart and the mitochondria literally collapses and dies.
as everyone knows, "mitochondria are the powerhouse of the cell", which means when mitochondria die the cell cannot maintain is structure and differentiation, so it either dies or on the off chance it becomes a cancer cell.
then there is the oxidation of cholesterol, which causes plaques and heart disease (?), i wont get into that, but pufa does cause cardiovascular problems (proven definitively by the minnesota coronary experiment mentioned in the video)
this is everything off the top of my head but it goes way deeper than that
i encourage you to read ray peat's articles bc he goes much more in depth
very informative anon thank you
oh one more thing, i said id mention fish
PUFA is not just seed oils, its PUFA
fish oil is PUFA, and its even worse than seed oils bc fish oils are even more unsaturated and prone to oxidation, its literally toxic
so oily (slimy) fish are to be avoided, salmon and mackerel in particular
cod is fine, shellfish are fine, just avoid fatty fish
if you want to learn more about fish oil read ray peat's article on it
avocados are also heavy in pufa (hence the slimyness), avoid
at the very least just avoid all fried foods, try to cook for yourself as much as possible
avoid chicken too?
oh, yeah chicken too, the fat is largely pufa (bc the feed is pufa rich)
but if youre on a budget chicken breast barely has any fat at all so its alright (still not ideal bc high tryptophan is bad but this is getting into autism territory)
ideally if you can afford it just beef, lamb, venison (ruminants have highly saturated fats)
pork also has some pufa bc of the ungodly slop theyre fed but i like pork so i still eat it (not ideal but whatever)
(wild boar or authentic iberian ham however is the greatest meat in the world bc the fat is so rich with androgens that eating it can make you fail a drug test. if commercial pigs were fed good feed id eat it everyday but as it is, with the pesticide laiden onions feed, its one of the worst meats next to chicken)
but again, this is getting a little autistic
just avoid overly fatty chicken or pork if youre going to eat it
so fish is bad too because its high in tryptophan ? tryptophan helps your body unwind
what is even this coming from ?
>avocados are also heavy in pufa (hence the slimyness), avoid
avocado fat is 70% monounsaturated, 13 pufa and 16% saturated
oh i thought it was much higher, just something i overlooked
high oleic sunflower oil also has a similar profile but still, i would never use avocado or high oleic sunflower oil over lindy olive oil (idk why anyone would)
so maybe the occasional California roll is okay
i still think its too much pufa in general if you eat a whole avocado a day or something
mufa is also not so innocent, its kind of neutral but iirc too much mufa is also slightly estrogenic
i also just dislike avocados so maybe thats why assumed it was much higher in pufa
Yes.
They make you fat.
Thread.
so which oils are the consensus of consumption
ik Olive, Coconut, Avocado, Animal Fats, Butter
But what else?
>inb4 dont eat any
I have a pseudo eating disorder and will literally eat 0g of fat a day, so I force myself to use fats.
Butter, coconut oil, olive oil, cheese
Wait polyunsaturated fats are bad now?
Always have bren
See
Lard is susprisingly high in PUFA and it's not a seed-oil.
Did the pigs get fed with onions cause that?
I thought animal fats were supposed to be ok.
Beef is ok as cows will turn any fat they get into satyrated. But pigs don't convert fat. If they are fed with algae, they will have mor eomega 3 than fish. If they are fed with seed oils, their fat will be pretty much omega 6
Just read the ingredients labels, not hard
All oil is just as bad for you, it's not really surprising, yes concentrated liquified pure fat is not healthy who knew.
Isn't there a high overlap between the anti-seed oil and "drown everything in butter" keto?
Not really
no it isn't Black person, oils and fats are highly nutritious and essential for human health
I have to eat a tablespoon of fat a day ( I can just use nuts but whatever) cause I simply won't consume them from food. I don't like fatty meat or dairy and I have no valid reason to consume other sources of fat. It's a conseous effort to do so, but I don't like adding fat with carbs/protein (inb4) because my Satiety is unbelievably fricked and I have no semblance of fullness or hunger and I need mountains of food to feel satisfied.
I'm trying to re-add fat so they come back, so I can just slowly make food portions smaller for myself so eating a lot of food hurts again
It's more than proven. However everyone can choose to eat it or not, it's up to you.
Multiple highly controlled RCTs in the 60s and 70s showed they cause cancer and or increase mortality despite lowering le evil cholesterol. Its also a highly industrialized product and mostly found in processed foods
Seed oils increase it though - olive oils decrease it.
Vaild - it's literally worse than sugar. There's a laundry list of reasons why it's bad for you, do some research. But here's one source:
Idk if it's as bad as buttergays claim but it's definitely not good for you
it's a complete fricking meme
just wait another year and you'll be hearing about another magical thing that's fricking you up just buy this guy's book
Is sunflower oil a seed oil? is it bad?
You need 3000 sunflower seeds for like 5 tablespoons.
No one eats that many seeds but happily ingests massive amounts of oil.
Yes its bad, like all seed oils.
>You need 3000 sunflower seeds for like 5 tablespoons.
This sounds like something a vegan/environmentalist would say about not eating animals because it takes 10x more plants to eat the animal than the plants themselves.
>implying I don't eat 3000 sunfllower seeds directly from my neighbour's garden in the dead hours of the night
>the seedgobbler, heard munching in the dark
probably a meme. carb hatred is valid, unless you work all day in the fields.
if you bought some sausages and then discovered that there were seed oils in the sausages would you throw them away or eat them anyway
eat them because i have no self control
Throw them away, even my dogs don't touch processed crap like that.
It’s a ketolard misdirection. First they lied fat consumption has gone down, but it’s so obvious lie they got caught and changed the scam narrative and are now claiming only vegetable oils are fattening not animal fats without any proof. Seed oil panic was originated by Nina Teicholz who runs a meat lobby business with industry connections, that’s why they chose to blame vegetable oils instead of animal fat.
You're giving them too much credit. they have literally zero basis for their claims. Their entire thesis literally stems from the fact that animal fat tastes good. There is literally nothing more than that. They just realize that animal fats taste good so they undergo an advanced mental gymnastics routine to meme the fact that saturated fat is healthy and PUFA is not healthy. There is no objective analysis of the research or anything of the sort. It's just mental illness and honestly every single person who believes in this crackpot cope conspiracy should be tortured to death.
Maybe you are just moronic? LOOL
>Their entire thesis literally stems from the fact that animal fat tastes good.
Deep-frying stuff in oil also tastes good though...
ive never been keto and never will be keto and in fact, loving carbs..
im not going to live life without eating carbs that makes me feel full of energy and helps give me the ultimate pump
but im an advocate for optimal health and constructive discourse, this is not a ketolard misdirection and the criticism
around seed oils has been blowing up for many years and continously been silenced by activists (usually vegans)
since processed slop is all they know to continue their crusade for the moral high ground on their high horse of hypocrisy
if anyone want a serious discussion around the dangers of highly processed hydrogenated bleached seed oils that is not
just relatively weak against heat and barely half as strong as tallow/butter in that regard and your seed oils is toxic from the
very moment you saw it in the store.
seed oils are extremely weak products that should be stored in a cold and dark basement and rather used for niche purposes
or your vehicles, seed oils was never used for "taste/flavour, consistency" or any other essential variables of cooking but rather
processed so desperately to diminish its nasty foul stench at the factory that you wouldnt notice how bad it is for you both by
bleaching and removing the nasty smell.
Nobody cares about your mystic ramblings founded solely on your mental illness moron
t. vegan schizo
cant attack anything within my argument, resorts to ad hominem and attempt at derailing constructive discourse
the typical vegan activist trained reponse methods on things you havent read a word about to understand why things are either good or bad,
youre the perfect example of why the fitness trend was a mistake when the typical moron who never cared about health drives health enthusiasts
down into the gutter with your own mindless agendas solely founded by your addiction for moral gayging and saviour complex
Livsmedelsverket says it's good and animal fat bad.
livsmedelsverket will promote the vaccines too
Valid but overblown, the vast majority of people have bigger issues to fix
What do you Black folk sear your steak with? Butter burns really quickly, same with olive oil. israelitetube cooking videos seem to favour vegetal oil. Bro Jogan uses beef tallow, which I don’t have.
You don't use butter to sear it but to baist afterwards
So which oil do you use to get a crispy seat on cast iron? I’m going to make a rib eye tomorrow and don’t wanna fugg it up
Normally clarified butter or olive oil
The olive oil doesn’t burn at those high temps?
The smoke point depends on the manufacturing process. But manually "cold-pressed" oil is too expensive and only used for salads afaik. You should generally not wait to long and "know your stove". When the oil ripples -> steak in
unrefined avocado or mustard oil have one the highest smoking point
>seed oils was never used for "taste/flavour, consistency"
how about no!?
quit you BS
olive oil literally gets used for food for over 10.000y
with some evidence even dating before the 1st agricultural revolution, so like 20k-30k years ago
other seed oils are used similarly long such as sesame oil used in kitchen for over 5.000y
what you think of are clarified oils, which are bleached and heated
yes they are obviously bad and are a new invention
at least on the current scale
olive oil is not a seed oil.
Olive oil isn't a seed oil you moron. It comes from the flesh of the olives.
>seed oil hatred valid or a meme
mostly meme
especially all the bullshit you hear about poly unsaturated fats
like 2 or 3 faulty studies (one of them even a survey, so complete garbage) published about this once and they get recited all the time here, but you rarely see the hundreds of studies showing saturated, especially animal fats are bad
but this issue is way less important than you think
even if there is a positive / negative effect its like a few percent risk reduced / added
so nothingburger
most important part to keep in mind is that fat is twice as calorie dense as protein and carbohydrates
so one tbsp already has 120kcal
this why it's good to shit on all fats / oils in general as fat normies don't understand the concept of caloriedensity
>inb4 frick off ketolards
and way better than using seed oils is eating the seeds itself, as it gives you protein and fiber!
there's probably some truth to it but IST autists take it too far as always
Idk about the hatred, but what's even the use of seed oils? Like do you just pour this shit over your food or what? They taste like nothing and have a frickton of calories, so I'd rather eat some extra cheese or nuts to get my fat in
I think most people just cook in it. I pour in a bit when frying stuff so it doesn't get stuck in the cast iron pan as easily.
It's valid but ketolards are stealing it from Ray Peat (who advocated high carb) in order to explain away why their stupid keto diets don't work. These are the people that used to call walnuts a "superfood" because... high in omega 6, just like fried chicken?
Yeah, not too long ago line seed oil was one of keto superfoods with the usual promise “this time it will totally work” then it was avocado oil and then coconut oil (remember they used to put it in coffee) now they say all plant oils bad with the usual promise “this time it will totally work” next super fix will be grape seed oil (screencap this)
morons going in circles in moron circle
i have never seen 4chuds promote this i only remember seeing it on facebook mom articles and similar toilet paper publications
Sure, but it was a thing. It goes in cycles. Oil bad oil good oil bad again another oil good now that oil bad now… there’s a limited duration how long you can scam people on one thing. Gotta change things around.
no you're making a total false equivalence this critique of omega 6 etc is based in actual scientific models that explain what is going on as well as long term empirical studies on a massive scale
those were based on small empirical studies that has vested interests and were clearly fradulent as well as contradicted much older knowledge (there are empirical rat studies dating back 100 years)
it is now very obvious we were lied to by agriculture giants
IST hates science and science tells us plants and plant oils are healthy and good for us, particularly our hearts. This upsets IST chuds because they want to eat bacon and grease so they invent absurd nonsense reasons why science is wrong based on anecdote and not evidence or reason.
>science tells us plants and plant oils are healthy and good for us, particularly our hearts
ah yes let me just subsist on french fries, potato chips, and other such foods fried in seed oils. it's all plants so it must be good!
It's just high calorie so it is easy to eat too much. There is nothing unhealthy about potato and sunflower oil in moderation. You need to eat other things to get vitamins not in potato. You are just too autistic to understand what a BALANCED diet is.
Yeah. Don’t forget to BALANCE your diet with hemlock, cyanide, and glass powder. Because DIVERSITY and BALANCE are GOOD FOR YOU
Actually, I am autistic and I do find it hard to understand why humans needs to eat a balanced diet, while literally no other animal in the entire animal kingdom needs to do it.
Lions eat gazelles
Cows eat grass
Whales eat krill
Giraffes eat leaves
Why would a human suddenly need to eat a largely variety of different foods in order to be healthy and thrive? That makes absolutely 0 sense from a biological/evolutionary perspective. An animal in nature would never be smart enough to eat a diet like this. It's simply impossible.
The more research i do the more i realize carnivore diets got it right.
Easy enough to add in the few vitamins whatever meat you eat doesn't have, (which most meat has everything humans needs) veggies and grains are for harsh winters and bugs are for backwater shithole tribes that can't thrive.
Stop trying to speak logically to the fat keto redditors, they're brain is starved of carbs and is working at 30% capacity.
>tfw you're brain is so starved of FAT the macro your brain actually uses for energy that you think carbs are needed
Maybe, just maybe, consider that humans are much more complicated animals than cows and lions? We need a much greater variety of nutrients. We aren't like other animals we control the planet. We are also evolved from monkeys who mostly eat fruit and nuts with a small amount of meat.
Because what you said is not true anyway. Lots of animals eat meat and plants. Even dogs eat grass.
plenty of animals eat different shit. apes and pigs as an example dont just eat one from one source. same with bears.
there's also animals that seek out specific minerals when and they innately know where to find them. like there's some that lick salty rocks.
Because we are designed to eat everything. We can survive ob everything. Not many animals can do that. Only rats, hedgehogs, pigsa and boars do that.
And there is no pure vegan animals. Gazele will eat small birds or bird eggs if given a chance. Most monkeys eat a lot of meat and eggs if given a chance.
>This thing is good for you
>UH NO BECAUSE I WILL GET SICK IF I ABUSE THEM HARD ENOUGH
Time to quit literally anything that isn't "breathing air" I guess
Meme pushed the guru Rogan based on his speculations on how the interactions between the fats in seed oils and the body affects one's health.
No randomised double blind controlled trial has been done on that matter.
i'm legitimately insulted that you think joe rogan is why the idea has become accepted here frick that bald homosexual
I thought olive oil was good for you?
olive oil is fine for eating veggies but i personally wouldnt use it on a hot pan
but i would prefer lubricating my carbonsteel pans with it to help keeping the natural coating
which is a pain in the ass to burn in new coating
have you guys noticed that nomatter the feed, it's always when it's from sneed it's bad?
maybe sneed is the problem
Duck, butter, olive oil. All of them taste better anyway.
Frick seed oils even if they weren't shit for you, or there wasn't any proof they frick up humans(which there is, I'm just not gonna find them now) they still are low quality slop at best.
Grow up and stop doing what israelites want you to do
If something is so rancid it has to go through a deodorization process before being sold then I'm not going to consume it. Macrogays that think food qaulity is Russian collusion can do it for me instead, I'll stick to tallow I render from good quality leaf fat.
Seed oils are the most calorie-dense food on the planet. If you are watching your weight, you need to limit them.
Other then that, they contain important fatty acids, omega 3, and vitamins K & E, so moderate consumption is recommended.
Nothing wrong with a fresh salad, lemon juice and tsp of canola oil, or some pan cooked protein with a bit of olive oil on top. If you are afraid of that you have an eating disorder.
mmmm yummy and now to wash it down with some liquid science and take my generic multi vitamin to secure the trinity of fit omnivore diet
What do anons think of BLACK SEED oil?
>oh my god you dropped mayonaise and stopped eating so much carbs? YOU MUST BE ONE OF THOSE KETOTARDS THAT DRENCH THEIR MEAT IN BUTTER AND WRAP EVERYTHING IN CHEESE AND BACON
why are soiboys like this? I literally lost 8 kg in a month from weighing 100 kg at 185 cm by not consuming any carbs, seed oils and manufactured sugar. I still ate some veggies and fruits.
I remember when I first started all I did was drop "veggie oil" and added sugars.
Never had anything against them, just realized by doing that, by proxy I removed so much shit.
Then I went insane, developed binge eating. And now I have to go back to square one
Still lost over 200 pounds before it though, only 50 more to go bros....