They've published a number of anti-running articles, including pic related, and I have to say, IME, I don't see how it's possible to balance running 4-5 days a week + lifting 4-5 days a week, or even just 3 days a week like SS programs.
Running, at least on sidewalks, causes too much damage to bone, muscle, and connective tissue with each down stroke, that your body needs time and resources to recover from, which cuts into whatever else (strength training, hypertrophy, whatever) you're doing along side.
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>Is starting strength right about-
no
based
weights train the body. running trains the mind. frick sharters
>weights train the body. running trains the mind.
hehe ok bro
>strategically not photographing legs
Pic related (author) said he stopped rooning, did SS, and when he had to do a run for a PFT, his time was much better than what they had been before, when he ran regularly.
lol bullshit
DESU, after seeing his "after" pic, that was my reaction too.
He looks like he'd get winded walking up a few flights of stairs.
here's a powerlifting setting a near world record on a rowing machine
what does this mean?
Is "100m as calculated by a concept 2" a world record, or are they unironically claiming it's the same thing as if he did it in a boat?
They probably embellished it. His performance probably doesn't qualify as an official world record by the standards of technical judges, but it is a proof of concept that it is possible to obtain an impressive VO2 cradio adaptation without needing to train cardio or running in general.
Measuring a single 13 second effort in watts is not a meaningful VO2 Max test.
At that point it's only really a test of how tall you are.
what is?
A VO2 Max test.
Is it possible to be a heavy lifter and have a 13 second 100m row and still fail a VO2 test?
and if the heavy lifter with a confirmed 13 second 100 row does fail the test numerically, would it not be absurd to call him unconditioned ?
What are the logical bases for requiring a VO2 max test?
>What are the logical bases for requiring a VO2 max test?
The fact that the proposition was advanced that a powershitter could develop an "impressive VO2 cardio adaptation without needing to train cardio or running in general".
Are you being obtuse on purpose?
You missed the point.
Why is the numerical value of the test more significant the displayed performance itself, logically speaking?
If that same powershitter showed a "low" VO2 max test result AND YET IS STILL able to do a 13 second 100m row, what does that mean for you?
Why are you assigning overriding authority to the test result over the performance result?
>You missed the point.
No, I answered the exact point that was made directly.
>If that same powershitter showed a "low" VO2 max test result AND YET IS STILL able to do a 13 second 100m row, what does that mean for you?
It would mean that measuring the wattage someone can pull on a rower for 13 seconds is a poor predictor of cardiovascular health and performance. And that wouldn't be fricking surprising to anybody at all, because it's a THIRTEEN SECOND EFFORT.
What you're failing to grasp right now is that you're essentially saying, "Well, so what if his muscles can't exert a lot of force when they contract? He could still be impressively strong!"
>No, I answered the exact point that was made directly.
no
>It would mean that measuring the wattage someone can pull on a rower for 13 seconds is a poor predictor of cardiovascular health and performance.
That's the problem right there. Why are you defeering the authority to a lab measurement over the actual performance demonstrated?
the proposition you are postulating is:
1. Man demonstrates near world record level performance on a cardio exercise.
2. Cardio excises rely on VO2 max adaptations
2. Man could possibly fail a VO2 max test
3. If Man who performed a near world record fails the VO2 max test then the conclusion is that he has poor cardio vascular health and low VO2 max adaptations.
How does that make sense to you, exactly?
>And that wouldn't be fricking surprising to anybody at all, because it's a THIRTEEN SECOND EFFORT.
it's not a 13 second effort per se, it's a 100 m effort which he completed in 13 seconds.
>What you're failing to grasp right now is that you're essentially saying, "Well, so what if his muscles can't exert a lot of force when they contract? He could still be impressively strong!"
>he could still be
>could
no, this isn't a "could". The powerlifter's performance definitely demonstrated that he indeed can.
By the same analogy above, if someone completes a 450 kg deadlift with correct form to lock out, and then "fails" whichever EMG test measuring muscle contraction, then are you going to seriously consider him as weak?
Why is your standard for what makes someone weak or not based on lab metrics rather than based on the actual thing that happened irl?
Both are empirical.
i hate leanposters but they might be right, this guy's face is completely wrecked by the extra weight. just his face alone went from chad to "if only you knew how bad things really were"
yeah that's dumb. no running = detraining. he'd only be better at something like an anaerobic capacity test because they last like 30 seconds.
Even then he would still be worse, sprinters are not fat
why did he stop smiling?
Smiling kills gains
Author is a chud. It's laughable that people actually listen to anything he says.
Top fricking kek, he's a roidtroony, at the very least "TRT," but this paragraph is telling:
>Although this could easily be an excerpt from a highly undesirable and all-but-unreadable erotic fiction novel, this is actually a bizarre but factual account of one of my many useless and comically ridiculous medical exams during my testosterone replacement journey. This same urologist went on to berate me about my non-existent steroid abuse and finally conceded that he had "no clue" why my testosterone was so absurdly low and then proceeded to ask me what I wanted to do about it.
>>This same urologist went on to berate me about my non-existent steroid abuse and finally conceded that he had "no clue" why my testosterone was so absurdly low
So the urologist, by his own admission, was virtually convinced he'd used steroids (like his mentor and actual erotic fiction author, Mark Rippetoe); why should we believe the author and not the urologist? Just because he's obese? Most people in Ripp's inner circle are on steroids, and are still obese.
>After listening to the TRT episode, I sought out a reputable specialist in hormone replacement therapy, and my experience was like night and day. Everybody obviously knew what they were talking about, and we quickly laid out the best course of action for me. They gave me a legitimate man's dose of testosterone – enough to reduce or eliminate my symptoms regardless of what my levels ended up being – and never mentioned “300.”
Translation: he went to a SS-sponsoring TRT mill to fix his self-inflicted, steroid-induced hypogonadism and give him levels of testosterone that, if even still within the physiological range, are well above what a lazy, obese, gosylop-eating powercoper like him should have.
So what was his pre-TRT level? I have low test but I'm progressing fine in the gym.
>This same urologist went on to berate me about my non-existent steroid abuse
i.e., he was off cycle.
Frick these fat, frauding morons.
The most likely scenario is this moron roided, and now has nothing to show for it besides
>muh numbers
and an obese body, and he permanently shut himself down and needs HRT like a troony until he dies.
>becomes obese
>heh, at least i'm strong, and that's real functional strength, these aren't just muscles for looking nice
I squat on Tuesdays and run on a rubber track on Saturdays
Just run on trails, tracks or whatever those wood chips are called. Go ask in rooner general
Any physical activity that is not lifting will fatigue your body in a way that is not beneficial to strength.
If your goal is to get as strong as possible before you die of a heart attack at 50 then yeah, don't run or do any cardio for that matter.
If you want to be strong AND live a long life, you sacrifice a little bit of your training volume for cardio.
Running is very high impact on your joints so I would generally suggest lower impact cardio like swimming, rowing or cycling instead.
BUT exercise enjoyment is very important, I like running a lot more than those other forms of cardio so I sacrifice a little more strength in order to actually enjoy training.
There's a variety of ways to work running and lifting into a single program, Alan thrawl has been making videos on this topic for the last year, personally I go for a short jog every morning before breakfast and lift after work. I train every day and I've still been making steady progress just by managing volume and intensity
As this anon said, it's all about your goals.
If your goal is to become a human forklift, then yes, by all means, quit running.
If your goal is to be healthy, have a physique that is attractive not only to your gym bros, have good sexual performance, and feel good in general, then you must do some sort of cardio. And it is best to do the one you actually enjoy.
After all, LISS is about the only area of physical activity where humans excel. There are a lot of animals who are faster or stronger than humans. But there is not a single animal who can run longer and further at a steady pace than a trained human.
>But there is not a single animal who can run longer and further at a steady pace than a trained human.
>The world records for the event on all surfaces are 270.116 km (167.842 miles) for women, set by Camille Herron of USA in 2019,[2] and 319.614 km (198.598 miles) for men, set by Aleksandr Sorokin of Lithuania in 2022.[3]
Mogged
Women are lighter than men in general making them ideal for sled dog races. Also, you just know.
>Also, you just know.
lol
...fricking IST. i hate that i know this
A man can definately run a horse into the ground. I am pretty sure a sled dog too but the comparisson, IMO, isn't valid. The sled dog is trained by man. No wild beast would ever show any behaviour such as training with purpose and analytic understanding of the method. Thus no wild beast exists that rivals the human trained sled dog. And still man probably outruns the dog in the long run.
Wild dogs are super super adapted for long distance. They run around territory all day every day, it's just what they do and they will win against naked humans hands down.
But yeah, we get to use technology to increase our efficiency, carry water and food, protect ourselves from elements, optimize training, etc, etc. So that's how we win.
Dogs can have vo2max over 200. The best human is in the 90's probably with EPO.
Imagine sustaining sprints for this long, usain bolt would tap out after 30 seconds.
Humans will never run down the dogs as they will disappear into the distance.
as it says in the post you responded to, wolves can and regularly do run over 100 miles/day, day after day
also
>definitely
>probably
>pretty sure
>thus
frick off
>if they don't overheat
But they will. That's why humans mog every other animal in long distance running, perspiration. We can dump heat through our entire bodies while other mammals are limited to breathing it out. For fricks sake look up persistance hunting, we did and still chase animals until they drop dead from overheating.
>For fricks sake look up persistance hunting, we did and still chase animals until they drop dead from overheating.
please shut the frick up
this "persistence hunting" meme has been debunked millions of times already. humans used tools, traps and cooperation to hunt animals. only a small handful of tribes in africa hunted like this
>humans used tools, traps and cooperation to hunt animals
huge forest
very few people making traps
how exactly do you think you can force the pray to fall in your trap?
persistence hunting involves cooperation, tools (spears) and often traps (driving the prey towards traps)
>LISS is about the only area of physical activity where humans excel
Show me an animal other than a human being who cares about excelling or will use whatever dumbass notion you're referring when you say "excel." Horses are shit runners because a Cheetah is faster. I guess no point using race horses any more.
>If your goal is to get as strong as possible before you die of a heart attack at 50 then yeah
Turns out you can get cardio while lifting. Consider supersets or giant sets.
Lifting is anaerobic. It’s not the same thing.
wtf are aeorobs? you mean like microbes? are you sayin weightlifiting is bad for my gut biome? tf thats moronic
Why can you people not understand that lifting provides cardio
Any guy at 1/2/3/4 who isn't obese can easily job a couple miles any time he wants, from the cardio he got from lifting alone. Which is enough not to 'le die from le heart attack at 50' or 'be le unable to le walk up le stairs'
Why can you people not understand this?
lol this is what zoomers actually believe. wtf
NTA but lifting does give cardio if you superset a lot antagonistically.
I used to run a couple of times a week, dropped it entirely around Christmas. Started doing it again and my cardio is better despite being significantly heavier.
I don't believe you.
Also, most non obese people can jog a couple miles.
20-30 minutes of light to medium cardio isn't going to interfere with shit
doing repeated full sprints or other forms of high intensity cardio can
you can however also adapt to a higher work capacity for all of this, one of the worst pitfalls of lifting and specifically PL'ing is that being obese and out of breath is optimal
running on asphalt in any case is moronic
>20-30 minutes of light to medium cardio isn't going to interfere with shit
Yeah it is. Even 2-3 30min light jogs is gonna cut in to your recovery resources
no it isn't
yes it is
no it isn't
Yes it is.
Or you are just lifting so little that you are not tapping in to your recovery resources so you dont notice the impacts it has. 2 20-30min sessions is actually my weekly limit and once i go beyond that recovery suffers. That means even just those two sessions also has their impact on overall resources.
My lower body sessions segue precisely into me not having DOMS on the exact day I repeat, I run on the off-days where I am not doing upper either. 5 sessions in total, two lower and three upper per 8th day. It's absurd to believe that having a pleasant jog outside 2-3 times a week is affecting recovery.
if 20-30 minutes of jogging 2 times a week is fricking with your recovery, you have a recovery problem not a total stress problem
>bro you don't understand, half an hour of light jogging will cut into my recovery resources
how much do you weigh you lard elemental
88kg currently
>Yeah it is. Even 2-3 30min light jogs is gonna cut in to your recovery resources
If you're out of shape as frick, yeah it is, but if you've ran for about 4 weeks and are accustomed to the stress your level of running is giving then no
>running on asphalt
The sidewalks here are concrete, not asphalt.
running has too much impact, jump rope is moderate impact and better, biking is probably the best.
>running has too much impact
for an overweight starting strength adherent, yes, this is accurate.
running is a skill that needs to be learned and you need to keep up with your shoes in order to avoid injury.
You can really mess up your back and your knees from running. It's the most dangerous cardio. An uphill treadmill with hard walking would be better, everyone is generally proficient at walking
Second least damaging cardio is swimming.
Least damaging cardio is lifting supersets. My Fitbit shows my heart rate gets into or above cardio level when lifting hard and there's no way for your heart and lungs to know if they are working hard because of squats or knee destroying jogging.
>Running won’t get you there
If by “there” he means an early death then yes he’s right
I jog to your mom's house every night
>become a fat slob
>eat like shit
>train excessively and exclusively in one single direction
>exist only in the room that's specifically dedicated for whatever you're trying to do
>gain skills that have no real life use and are completely worthless for everything except for the very specific thing you're trying to do
>focus on numbers and numbers alone, nothing else
StartingStrength is the autism of lifting.
Now that I think about it, no wonder it became so popular on 4chin.
>Now that I think about it, no wonder it became so popular on 4chin.
lets not kid ourselves, it became popular everywhere.
and the reason is because trashing the established norm is a quick and dirty way to get easy credibility because people instantly flock to that type of contrarianism. rippetoe was just the face of it because he was extremely dogmatic and abrasive, and derided everything that he disagreed with as nonsense, even something as simple as squatting high bar.
the "strength training" movement came in and just shit all over bodybuilding, circlejerked about how bodybuilders weren't "real lifters" and their muscles were all for show, and that if you wanted to build a real man's body you needed to do the opposite like starting strength and stronglifts 5x5.
even today the effects of this are still pervasive. people still believe that when they start lifting that they need to go through a 6 month block of a strength program, even if they have 0 interest in strength, powerlifting or SBD and only care about aesthetics.
its definitely more popular on IST though youre right, because this place is so contrarian that people don't even use their brains.
I feel better after a run than after lifting. I feel good after lifting and i so it more, but I feel great after running. There's something to that
>I feel better after a run than after lifting.
>There's something to that
yeah it's called endogenous morphine. Your body produces it to mask the horrendous damage you're doing to your joints. Runners are literal heroin addicts who slowly and steadily destroy their bodies in order to chase a high. More pathetic than roiding tbh
Dude on the right was caught doping. Besides he's being cherry picked against some no named shitter anyways, most of the top sprinters of all time have a physique more like the guy on the left than on the right.
t. useless druggies
Kek, so funny listening to powershitters justify why they can't perform a basic human endeavor
>this bald guy looks ugly, therefore it's ok I can't run
Jesus you even type like a fatass
>health
Right since sufficient muscle mass makes it easier to stay healthy
>performance
Depends, sprints or marathons? Marathons are a DYEL sport favoring lighter people. Right would win the sprint but lose a marathon.
I for one enjoy me some chill zone 2 jogging once or twice a week. You can easily do 1-2 runs each week and still have more than enough days for lifting/rest. Everyone acts like they lose all their gains whenever they skip their lifting day.
Why do fat morons believe engaging in bipedal movement is bad for bipeds? Why do other fat morons(you) believe then?
>I don't see how it's possible to balance running with lifting at a similar frequency
It's pretty easy, if a moron like me can do it, everybody can
>Wake up at 6am go for a 5k (runlet so it takes me 30 to 35min)
>Go home, shower it's around 7am
>Wake up my GF, eat breakfast with her
>leave for work at 7:40
>Day end at 4 or 5pm depending on the day
>Go home, relax for an hour, eat something before going to the gym
>go to the gym at 5:30/6:30pm
>go home shower, now its around 7:30/8:30pm
>Eat something if I'm hungry, otherwise just drink a protein shake, play vidya/spend time with my GF until like 10/10:30
>repeat 5-6x a week
life is pretty simple if you're an autist that enjoys having a set routine
Next week:
>why you should drive to your mailbox
>by mark rippetoe
Yes, SS is right as usual.
You see, human evolution was like a sprint: yes we are bipedal but we evolved too fast, we're still getting accustomed to walking, let alone running. This problem is obviously exacerbated by more modern issues such as obesity and labyrinthitis. We can run, of course, but we really shouldn't if you think about it. Our ancestors did run but only in short bursts, doing the bulk of the running using their hands AND feet, that is the optimal position. It will evenly distribute the weight across all joints in your body, making it safe to jog and run for hours.
Normal bipedal running will inevitably lead to injuries, overwork your heart, deform your feet, destroy your joints.
Objectively speaking we're not meant to run on two feet at all.
>2023
>not apemaxxing and getting your cardio by running on all fours
"Running is kinda overrated, unless you really enjoy it or do something like a sport where you need to run you should probably just consider a lower-impact alternative" was established as a truism years ago, why did this dumb fat homosexual think anyone was waiting for him to write about it?
Bro this is 2023
It’s all about zone 2 and V02maxxing
From a peak health and longevity standard, it doesn’t matter running or biking or stair climbing.
tell me more about zone 2 and VO2maxxing
LISS sessions in heart rate zone 2 are minmaxed for developing mitochondrial efficiency, while intense sprint sessions are minmaxed for developing VO2 max. Those two things are the main 2 pillars of cardiovascular health and performance. Ergo, you do 3-5 zone 2 sessions and 1-3 sprint sessions a week and you're full-spectrum cardiomaxxxing.
Fat people can't run. Running is offensive to fat people. In this era of fat acceptance, that means you shouldn't run and should be fat instead.
I hate fat people.
Running on pavement is fine if you have proper form.
>I don't see how it's possible to balance running 4-5 days a week + lifting 4-5 days a week,
You're right, you can't do both and expect to progress in both. You can however, if you're already an established runner, run once or twice a week on your rest days while lifting, given you don't push yourself too much. Equally, if you're a lifter wanting to progress running, you can do your lifts and maintain them a couple of days a week while increasing your ability to run.
Mark Rippetoe has done a good job making the Starting Strength and Texas Method programs, but other than that, he's not very wise or insightful. He's far too dogmatic and refuses to accept anything he didn't learn or develop 30+ years ago. Running and lifting go together fine, you just can't do both with equal priority.
redpill on jump rope bros?
thinking of adding ~15 min of jump rope after my lifting workouts (stronglifts, 3 days a week)
Threads like this prove Sv3rige to be right. Especially when running comes up. Weight lifters automatically start talking about how to mitigate damage to the body. It's amazing how they subtlety acknowledge it.
lol this image:
made me think of him too.
What would you rather look like? The rippetoe endstate isn't a good definition of fitness and nobody really cares how much you shart
Remember the Rippetoe endstate is WITH STEROIDS.