>is that...a natural additive critical for the function of the human body?
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>is that...a natural additive critical for the function of the human body?
>is that...a natural additive critical for the function of the human body?
>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH SOMEONE HELP MEEEEEEEEE
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Same morons who SEETHE over sugar are the same dumb fricks who in the 80's protested high fat and in the 90's and early 2000's thought that carbs were the enemy
Whats the next villain, protein?
What's there to seethe about if it has no impact on my life? Anytime you spike your glucose above its homeostatic set point you glycate your tissues and mess with your hormones. See extreme diabetics to what is happening to your body on a micro-scale. The solution to spiking blood sugar exists, but most of you, who are essentially sugar addicts, lack the courage to suffer the adaptation phase. In the end, it's your funeral.
you need to ask your father for forgiveness
>spike
get new material. Seriously.
Actually, yeah.
There's already research about negatives from protein intake, especially if you go well over a certain g/lb or kg.
Just gonna take a few years of fear mongering.
OP you should only eat whats in that image. No vegetables, no water just soda.
Let us know how you feel, and how fast you gain weight
explain fruitarians.
Randle cycle. Glucose won't pool (as much) in the blood if there is no fat in the cells to lock glucose out of entry.
wait so does sugar cause you to become fat or not?
Fat and sugar cross-inhibit each other.
oh so sugar doesn't cause you to get fat, fat does?
sugar raises insulin and makes you store the fat you would otherwise use for energy
but then how come people can get fat when they don't eat any carbs?
you can make fat from sugar
ok, so what about people that don't eat carbs, they can't store fat?
you can still store fat but you also burn more fat
oh ok. so macronutrients don't matter?
it depends
People who don't carbs (keto) tend to lose weight, the same way people on pure sugar diets (fruitarians, or lean meat and rice) do. Rande cycle is not activated, lower inflammation, stable insulin and blood glucose, hunger and satiety signals normalized.
but if the randle cycle is never activated, why is there always glucose and fat in the blood?
Because you need a set amount of glucose and fat in the blood to not die? What kind of fricking question is that?
so what's the purpose of the randle cycle in this conversation?
The Randle cycle is the mechanism that raises blood sugar to toxic levels. It locks glucose out from entry into the cell (which is replete with energy) no matter how much insulin is in the blood. That excess insulin pushes excess blood sugar to be stored as fat. This results in a drop in blood sugar below the desired level and you'll become hungry again, even though your total energy consumption was well above your caloric requirements.
so eating fat causes your cells to become insulin resistant?
eating fat and sugar together
but how come people on low (or no) carb diets are insulin resistant and glucose intolerant?
your pancreas doesnt keep a bunch of insulin lying around so you have a delayed response which quickly reverses within a few days and then you can see they actually have better glucose tolerance than before when they were eating carbs all the time
and you think their supposed improved glucose tolerance is a result of not consuming carbs? nothing else about them has changed just their diet?
It doesn't matter, if you don't consume carbs you have no need to be tolerant to carbs. Lmao.
Insulin resistance is an abstract construct and can be simply explained as a consequence of the Randle cycle. If you eat a keto-like diet, suddenly adding in carbs will cause you issues. Regardless, so-called 'insulin-resistance' is irrelevant in the context of a zero carb diet.
idk man dismissing signs and symptoms of diabetes as abstract constructs because they don't fit into your paradigm seems kinda sus.
diabetes and its symptomology is diagnosed and subject exclusively to chronically elevated blood sugar levels. 'insulin resistance' is not a pathology. It's not a health symptom. If you are 'insulin resistant', but have stable blood sugar at 80, you cannot possibly be diagnosed with diabetes.
i would say high insulin levels in the presence of normal blood sugar portends bad things to come. its like your pancreas is working overtime just to keep things looking "normal" which it can only do for so long
The insulin won't be there unless you actually perform a blood glucose test. It's like you are intentionally acting dumb.
glucose response test*
im saying in people habitually eating carbohydrate the insulin goes high before blood sugar does almost like an early warning sign
This is irrelevant to keto associated 'insulin resistance'
for people eating a "balanced diet" its a useful thing to see where your insulin is
As has been stated many times in this thread and balanced macro diet is an essential requirement for the development of diabetes. If you want to avoid diabetes, the last thing you should be eating is a balanced diet.
i dont disagree but the fact is most people will eat a balanced diet and a raised insulin is a good early warning sign something is starting to go wrong
Stating something doesnt make it true
This is a moronic form of thinking. Insulin resistance and high insulin levels are the very next step leading to diabetes. You're totally right, you can't be diagnosed if you're insulin resistant with a stable blood sugar, but once your blood sugar falls out of line it's too late to fix the problem. When it comes to type 2 diabetes, generally you start becoming insulin resistant, your pancreas works harder, you become more insulin resistant, then eventually your pancreas just fails entirely or you become resistant to the point where you're blood sugar levels can no longer maintain healthy levels.
That's the entire problem with the medical system in the US. We'd rather focus on trying to cure the disease itself, rather than prevention of said disease.
>once your blood sugar falls out of line it's too late
The point is if you have ketogenic-induced insulin resistance, you do not have diabetes. Your blood sugar will 'never get out of line' if you don't consume carbs. Regardless, if you decide to start consuming carbs again, this insulin-resistant state is temporary, lasting about 3 days.
This is factually correct, however, you may still have metabolic diseases beyond diabetes, Mr. Kay.
Is your brain malfunctioning? Neither fat, nor carbs cause you to get fat. Eating them in high amounts together does, think ice cream, donuts, milk, fries, etc. Eliminate a macro, either one, and you'll lose weight.
wait so is it macronutrients or calories now?
>de novo lipogenesis
overconsumption of carbs creates less fat than overconsumption of fat, by far. there are studies where they feed people 50% more calories than tdee, which was like 300g of straight sugar, and they gained on average 3-5g of fat from the extra carbohydrate.
no, it's healthy. fructose is a top tier sugar. watch your fat intake, exercise, and don't eat over 500 calories a day if bulking.
thats a short term phenomena. if you chronically consume that much sugar you will make more and more fat
and all of the extra fat your body doesn't immediately need will be stored regardless of how many extra calories from carbohydrate.
>short term
bro it's an experiment. imagine eating 1000 extra calories every day from sucrose.
>imagine eating 1000 extra calories every day from sucrose.
bro it doesn't matter they even told me that fat is what causes you to store fat by inducing insulin resistance and diabetes but the still refuse to acknowledge the thing they said.
sumo wrestlers dont eat a lot of fat
ok? great contribution.
you can get fat on high carb
sumo wrestlers dont eat a lot of carb
take your meds
medicate yourself
proportionally its low fat. concession accepted
>meat has no fat
>fish has no fat
>broth has no fat
oh
calories daily
low fat not no fat. they eat high carb. concession accepted again
how do you know the macronutrient breakdown of their meals?
>The sumo wrestlers of Japan, whose weight commonly exceeds three hundred pounds, typically reach that level by their early twenties. In 1976, a University of Tokyo collaboration, led by Tsuneo Nishizawa, published an article in The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition that still constitutes the most comprehensive analysis in the English medical literature of the sumo diet, body composition, and health. The world of professional sumo wrestling, according to Nishizawa, is divided into an “upper group,” constituting the best wrestlers in the country, and a “lower group.” The members of the upper group consumed on average some fifty-five hundred calories’ worth of chanko nabe (a pork stew) a day, out of which 780 grams were carbohydrates, 100 grams fat and 365 grams protein. This constituted more than twice the calories and carbohydrates of the typical Japanese diet of the era,*90 slightly less than twice the fat, and four and a half times the amount of protein. The sumo diet was very high in carbohydrate by our standards—57 percent of the calories—and very low in fat—16 percent—considerably beneath what most public-health authorities in America consider a feasible low-fat target. The lower group of sumo weighed as much as their more accomplished colleagues, but were significantly fatter and less muscular. They consumed, on average, only 5,120 calories of chanko nabe a day, consisting of 1,000 grams of carbohydrates, 165 grams of protein, and only 50 grams of fat; these lesser sumo attained and maintained their corpulence on a diet of nearly 80 percent carbohydrate calories and 9 percent fat.
have a nice day Black person
so they're healthier when overconsuming calories because they eat low fat. thanks.
if you want to become grossly obese eat high carb
do you have any evidence to support this claim?
sumo wrestlers
You conveniently omit the alcohol they consume, curious. Ketogays usually support fasting as well which is interesting because sumo wrestlers work out fasted.
what does that have to do with food
you right they show that if you do want to become grossly obese but still retain some health and strength you should eat high carb.
as opposed to all those unhealthy keto sumo wrestlers. you are such a moron its hilarious
It's almost like sumo wrestlers optimized the diet which would give them the best health/fitness outcomes despite being obese..
>fat isn't stored as fat
Occams razor suggests otherwise, maybe the true explanation is the simplest one, that fat is the most fattening macro.
carbohydrate restriction increases expenditure. sumo wrestlers on high fat diets couldnt exist
I'm checking your digits and not responding to you anymore. you're too moronic to have a conversation.
concession accepted
Carb restriction slows your metabolism in reality, and fat oxidation is regulated by adrenaline, meaning that burning fat is a stress response.
no it doesnt. unless you mean for the first week or two. after that its the opposite
denying biology is the only way the ketard can comprehend things.
grim.
> Lower-carbohydrate diets transiently reduce TEE, with a larger increase after ∼2.5 wk. These findings highlight the importance of longer trials to understand chronic macronutrient effects and suggest a mechanism whereby lower-carbohydrate diets may facilitate weight loss.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33274750/
huff more copium Black person
So I was proven correct? Carb restriction lowers tee, is total energy expenditure not your metabolism?
>moron cant read
unsurprising
>Lowers metabolism
>Body takes time to adapt to stress response
A diet plan that's the epitome of 2 more weeks! sounds like a moronic diet to me. Curious how carb. never fail to taste good after this adaption period, almost like the body craves it's preferred source of energy
You have never done long-term carnivore. How would you know what it's like to be in that state?
I did, if by long term you men long enough the ketards say which ranges from 2 weeks to 6 months (ketards can't be consistent with their facts). I fell for all the memes, ate mostly steak and felt like shit.
>you didn't do it right
>eat more fat!
>2 more weeks!
I know all the ketard talking points, you will quit too at some point and realize how moronic you were, only the schizos or liars don't.
I have been carnivore for over 2 years. Feel great, obviously. You probably did it wrong, or you are lying your ass off. You either ate liver, or not enough protein in a single meal each day.
>I have been carnivore for over 2 years. Feel great, obviously. You probably did it wrong, or you are lying your ass off. You either ate liver, or not enough protein in a single meal each day.
there is no point replying to this. its the same vegetard troony that has been shitting up IST for however many months now. this homosexual will strawman, post garbage, get blown the frick out and open a new thread to do it all over again. vegtroons are mentally ill.
>just eat only meat, its natural and simple.
>i ate only meat
>well you did it wrong
The absolute state of fad dieters
Protein and meal patterns matter, especially during the transition period. Breaking ketosis periodically via the insulinogenic effect of protein is required for electrolyte regulation and thyroid function.
Gradually ramping down your carb consumption is important to avoid microbiome-related issues.
Overconsuming the liver can lead to hypervitaminosis, particularly copper.
Undereating fat, even as a fat frick, will lead to fatigue and hormonal issues.
You can do it wrong. A few morons have, for example, Saladino.
Doesnt sound very natural to me
1. is consistent with feast and fast hunter gatherer lifestyle.
2. it is not natural in the first place to have a carb oriented microbiome
3. eating liver beyond natural proportions on the animal is not natural
4. eating to satiety is natural, micromanaging your macros based on abstract notions of diet and health is not.
You dont have any evidence for any of that so I'm going to disregard all of it
stable isotope testing of the long bones of humans clearly shows we have a carnivore rating similar to foxes wolves hyenas and cats.
a response to that article has already been written. basically they used bad math and at best the difference is less than an apple a day.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8491863/
they dont dispute that low carb increases expenditure just the magnitude. as i said before cope Black person
yes and the increase is the inefficiency of gluconeogenesis.
don't forget to dilate.
speculative cope
you're right man we're all coping keto is the greatest thing in the world and there is 0 evidence otherwise.
>things nobody said for 500
you clearly have an axe to grind
lol this troony doesn't think keto is the best diet.
a properly formulated one can be a good diet for some people but not for others
The body adapts to stress the best it can. Even if fat metabolism is inferior it'll get better at it.
more moronic cope
>carbohydrate restriction increases expenditure
The metabolic advantage was disproven by taubes himself if a study he paid for
who the frick is talking about keto sumo wrestlers? do you know any?
thats the point. you cant get that big without eating large amounts of carbohydrate
>100g fat
900 calories
>365g protein
1460 calories
>780g carbohydrate
3120 calories
japanese homies eating over 5000 calories a day and anons blame carbohydrate.
okay now do vegans.
the point is high carb is the best way to grow that big. high fat the same calories you wouldnt
thats wrong
ok fatso
How is this at all significant? Sure, you may get more fat by overeating pure fat than by overeating pure carbs, but you sure as hell will get way more fat if you overeat fat and carbs together. Both keto and pure sugar diets are proven effective for weight loss. If you are on either, you will struggle to overeat, which invalidates the study in the first place. The difference between either approach is that one nutritionally complete, while the other is entirely destitute of real nutrition
>sugar isn't a nutrient
Sugar can be replaced entirely by fat. Pure sugar diets lack nutrition due to the requirement of essential fatty acids and also fat in the diet being needed to absorb fat-soluble vitamins.
It can't, that's why the body produces it, which is a major ketard talking point but reveals the deep moronation of the ketard.
Somehow the ketard doesn't understand that the body having to produce it's own energy and running on stress hormones (gluconeogenesis is regulated by cortisol) is not a good thing.
Glucose is made endogenously as it is with all animals that derive most of their calories from fat, a lot of animals. The exact requirement for exogenous carbs is zero. Exogenous consumption of carbs causes spikes in glucose and damage from glycation and is the primary driver of diabetes. The hubris of assuming what a hormone is and does at all times in all contexts.
depends how much fat is your diet and how many calories you're eating from sugar(s)
why do you think vegans lose weight?
you have to drop either fat or sugar
if you drop fat you will have fricked up nutrient intakes, horribly high insulin levels, glycation and all sorts of issues
if you drop sugar you go into ketosis (which is how we are born) and incidentally it improves everything from autism and depression over epilepsy to schizophrenia
autism is cured by antibiotics and sterilizing the gut.
AGE's are produced mostly from PUFA.
if keto is so good why have the Inuit genetically adapted out of it when they consume a keto diet?
>autism is cured by antibiotics and sterilizing the gut.
You are mentally moronic if you believe this to be a better solution than a dietary one, which is bound to profoundly influence the gut microbiome, if properly designed.
>AGE's are produced mostly from PUFA.
Are you even listening to yourself?
It's an advanced *GLYCATION* end-product, they aren't produced from PUFA at all.
Oxidative stress, hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia, as well as sugar and sneed oil uptake all go hand-in-hand.
>if keto is so good why have the Inuit genetically adapted out of it when they consume a keto diet?
Neither is the traditional Inuit diet ketogenic, nor are they even a good example if you consider the extreme environment that they are adapted to.
Newborns, however, are almost always in ketosis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAWReEm4l0w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-II2vBGn8U
These are great.
>unironically quoting somebody who is so delusional she claims elevated stress hormones are ok because keto though
none of your points refute anything I said either.
"no you're wrong!"
>paid shills are the people fighting against sugar and promoting keto
grim. guess that makes sense why there's always a minimum of one keto thread up.
how do I know? you stick out like a sore thumb.
"no you're wrong and a paid shill!"
this board is so fricking moronic and uneducated. this has to be bait. but i know that it isn’t.
>Just don't be fat bro!
>explain morons wasting away, having their teeth out of their mouth, and becoming severely malnourished
They're stupid, like you.
Fruitarians are suffering.
they're malnourished with beetus
You mean bill gates who died simply because he waa one, or that obe dude who was going to plsy him in the movie also having to stop the diet because he was about to have the same thing happen?
not OP but i could eat nothing but picrel and never gain weight.
>reee nooo that cant beee
kek i literally drink 2 liters of soda daily and havent gained weight in years its kind of fricking infuriating
zero dietary sugar is necessary
since switching to a healthy diet I've noticed that on the occasions when I eat sugar I end up feeling lethargic and depressed the next day, which makes me want to eat more sugar.
sounds like a classic substance of abuse
>since switching to a healthy diet I've noticed that on the occasions when I eat sugar I end up feeling lethargic and depressed the next day, which makes me want to eat more sugar.
This happens to me too, what is that? Some parasite issue or something?
>another moxyte thread
If fructose is critical for you, you wouldn't mind drinking some of this "critical" HFCS, would you?
>I AM AN ATHLETE
She only had 4 though.
>critical for the function of the human body
It's not though. That's what the whole debate is about.
It's OPTIONAL for humans. So there is a debate as to if it's better to function with or without. That's all.
If you dont eat it, your body makes it. Its critical.
your body makes it whether or not you eat it. its so critical you never have to eat any of it
Its so critical your body will make it to survive. Its critical. If itnwerent you could get by without your body making it.
Same for blood. It's so critical your body keeps making a shitload of it so that's why you need to drink blood twice a day.
would like to get some to make blood sausage but my country doesnt allow it
I feel like we are talking past each other. I Didnt say that
is sugar from fruit as bad as sugar from junk food and processed shit? i eat 2 large bananas a day and 500ml milk and i get like 60-70 g sugar from them is it bad?
>like builds like
>protein you eat is protein you wear, dietary protein becomes the protein in your body, if you don't eat enough protein the things that are made of protein will start deteriorating
>fat you eat is fat you wear, dietary fat becomes the fat in your body, if you don't eat enough fat to sustain the levels of fat on your body it will start deteriorating
Completely logical
>akshually it's da insulin spikes and shii and eating a bunch of fat wont make you fat
>bro keto is actually the default state and the body prefers fat for energy even though it's a stress response to starvation
Complete mental gymnastics
>sugar is a natural additive critical for the function of the human body so you must consoom it
That's how I know OP, or moxyte, is a landwhale
I'm going to put sugar free ketchup on my chicken tonight
Did you check the carbs on the "sugar free" product?
145lb and 6'1. I've always been skinny, but I went on keto for 2 years because of chronic stomach pain. The low carb diet reduced the pain and it eventually cured my stomach pain. My body maintained my weight while I was on keto. I couldn't gain any mass, but I guess it was good I didn't lose any either.