is there any actual evidence that vaping nicotine leads to serious health effects as opposed to the effects of smoking cigarettes
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is there any actual evidence that vaping nicotine leads to serious health effects as opposed to the effects of smoking cigarettes
maybe
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37625774/
>is there any actual evidence
none as of yet.
and based on first principles, there shouldn't ever be any.
fundamentally, all the bad shit in tobacco smoke are combustion by-products.
vaping has no combustion, and hence no combustion by-products
it might not be 100% healthy, but as of yet we have no evidence that its not, nor has anybody proposed any theoretical mechanism by which it might cause harm.
and even if we do find that it does cause some harm, it would still be at least a couple orders of magnitude worse than actual cigarettes, so very much still a HUGE improvement for those who switch over.
wtf does acrolein have to do with vaping.
>ctrl+f vaping
>0 results
acrolein is produced by burning glycerine (the main constituent of vape juice)
thats a simple google away
glycerin is not burned in vapes, merely vaporized
see below for a discussion of acrolein exposure due to vaping:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7154799/
tldr not an issue
How do you think the chemical is vaporized. How does it get from a solid/liquid into a gas without the application of heat
first of all, read the link i posted
it clearly explains that there are no significant quantities of acrolein in vape aerosol
second, there is a difference between heating leading to evaporation and *burning* which causes all sorts of chemical reactions to occur
>no significant quantities
the way chemical engineers use significant is significantly different from the way medical professionals use the word.
It likely becomes significant when you are addicted to it and go through as many pods as one does
it doesn't.
again, read the article linked.
and again, don't focus on whether vapes are 100% healthy, focus on the fact they're a couple orders of magnitude safer than actual cigarettes.
It’s not vaporized, it’s aerosolized, Jesus Christ you people are fricking Dunning Krueger incarnate.
Smoking is more than just combustion. Vaping exposes you to volatile organic compounds, PCHs, there are elevated counts for basically every major immune marker (granted not as elevated compared to combustibles) I could go on and on.
EVALI. That was off-label vitamin e acetate being used in secondary additives. And yeah a few hundred people died and many more were hospitalized.
It’s all so tiresome. Plebs will do anything to justify their moronation when the evidence is staring them right in the face. Vaping isn’t good for you.
>It’s not vaporized, it’s aerosolized
im aware, i called the inhalant an aerosol in a later reply.
just trying to keep things simple.
>Smoking is more than just combustion
see above, keeping things simple.
>Vaping exposes you to volatile organic compounds, PCHs, there are elevated counts for basically every major immune marker
>granted not as elevated compared to combustibles
don't bury the lede.
the salient fact here is that vaping reduces the amount of crap you're inhaling by a couple orders of magnitude
100% healthy? probably not.
much, much, MUCH healther than cigarettes? fricking definitely.
>Vaping isn’t good for you
nobody is saying its good for you
im saying is VASTLY preferable to smoking regular cigarettes
and that as of yet, we have no evidence of vaping causing actual harm.
Am I the only butthole who remembers the psyop right before the pandemic when apparently people were dropping dead and getting pulmonary oedemas and shit from vaping?
Just to make it clear it was bullshit, if you're a heavy smoker and you vape instead of smoking gays you will feel better. However vape juices are usually very sugary and you will absorb their calories so if you're on a cut you should just quit everything and add like 300 Kcals to your cut for good measure.
wasn't bullshit was vitamin e oil contamination in vape carts
you have no idea what you're talking about and like most people who come to IST are low iq
it was not a psyop exactly, more like blatant lying
the victims were smoking vape pens (weed, not e-cigarettes) and specifically using black market cartridges with god knows what inside them
to the best of my knowledge, to date, there has been no example of e-cigarette use causing issues
except a couple of examples of mods exploding, generally due to misuse of batteries, but that's just an electronic device malfunction and has nothing to do with vaping itself.
yeah this happened in the Midwest because some buttholes cut weed oil with vitamin E liquid ..
It literally made people's lungs Swiss cheese..
I know because a nurse told me that worked on the case..
somehow it got conflated with COVID Chinese propaganda saying that COVID came from the US which is an obvious lie..
https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/e-cigarettes/severe-lung-disease.html
The moral of the story, Make sure your shit doesn't't have vitamin e
nicotine is an actual poison, plus hot humid weather is associated with a development of breathing issues how is that any different than toking on water vapor mixed with 40 different chemicals? Nic addicts cope so hard about this shit
>nicotine is an actual poison
only at unreastically high dosages
you can kill youself with nic, but you'd have to really, really try.
by which i mean snorting raw nic powder or something of the sort.
> how is that any different than toking on water vapor
there is no water vapor in vape aerosol.
its propylene glycol + glycerin + nicotine + food flavorings(which are suspended in propylene glycol, not water.)
>mixed with 40 different chemicals
as long as the chemicals are safe, then its fine
and for the time being, the chemicals in vape aerosol are both safe in theory (nobody has proposed a credible mechanism by which they could harm you) and in evidence (nobody has found evidence of vaping causing harm)
ofc as i've previously mentioned, i seriously doubt that we'll end up proving that vaping is 100% safe.
but i'd bet any amount of money that when all the evidence is in, it'll still be found to be several orders of magnitude safer than smoking cigarettes.
>nicotine is an actual poison
stop posting already
>is there any actual evidence
idk vape it and find out
Do you like popcorn, anon?
>be vape juice
>be made in China where there aren’t any regular
>also don’t have to have your ingredients on label
>literally a mysterious vial of chink juice
>…
>is this bad for you?
No it’s actually really good for you.
>its lel bad because......uhhhh......I HATE CHINA OK?!?!
>>its lel bad because......uhhhh......I HATE CHINA OK?!?!
LMAO
>yeah I acknowledge that there's no oversight or ingredients listing on these
>but they're le good because.....uhhhh.....?????
Depends if you trust the fda or not I guess
>no oversight or ingredients listing on these
So no different to America, whats your problem?
>I hate china
This is a reasonable and valid argument. Those yellow israelites have gutter oil and mildly radioactive industrial waste in their food, and their qc inspections consist of "hey Zhang, the inspector comrade is coming over later, can you draw up some nice charts for him in ms paint? kthxbye"
>have gutter oil and mildly radioactive industrial waste in their food,
How is that different to America food
Well truth be told I also wouldn't eat any ameican imports either, but let's be honest it's not anywhere near as bad as chink slop. Why are you defending them anyway? And why did you immediately retort with "but america bad"? I hope you're getting paid more than 0.50 rmb for these posts.
>Well truth be told I also wouldn't eat any ameican imports either,
depending on where you live you almost certainly eat imported american fruit vegetables etc.
Because the people who always whine about china have the same problems at home then immediately accuse of shilling like you did
No one's "whining about china", Zhang, people are just pointing out how inherently untrustworthy vape juice is since it's largely unregulated and comes out of china.
>the same problems
Please spend a year living in a chinese urban centre if you unironically believe this.
nuh-uh, you can keep your glyphosate infused avocados and oranges
>glyphosate infused
absolutely used worldwide hate to tell you
>inherently untrustworthy vape juice is since it's largely unregulated
So like America
I guess you don't realize that China literally has no standards and people literally die using the escalators at the mall.
So like America
No one in America dies using the escalators at the mall, moron.
Yeah they just die from drinking water thats contaminated
>water is contaminated
>study hard or get into a trade like welding
>get a job in another bumfrick town
>life is good again
it really is that easy.
Ohio contaminated water affects a large part of America
no it doesn't and in any case, just move. why are you attached to land that your ancestors moved to for a better life. go get a better life homie.
>no it doesn't
Yes it does, and lets not forget all the chemicals dumped into rivers by companies plus the pesticides that go into most food and water supplies
Bugs LITERALLY scoop congealed fat and oil out of the sewer and sell it to their own neighbors.
WHAT THE FRICK DO YOU THINK THEY'D DO TO YOU?
>Bugs LITERALLY scoop congealed fat and oil out of the sewer and sell it to their own neighbors.
So like seed oils
>also don’t have to have your ingredients on label
yes they do. I'm looking at my bottle right now:
>Vegetable Glycerin
>Propelyne Glycol,
>Nicotine
>Artificial and Natural Flavourings
>buying unsealed vapes
idiots get what idiots deserve.
>is thing that has been endorsed by the same companies who endorsed the human toxin know as cigarettes for 100+ years while being known to downplay long term health effects of their products in the past and buying studies with money to try and trick the average person into believing it was healthy for them and violently pushed back against all and any attempts to limit or inform the public about potential negative consequences doing the same thing again but for a new product that has the benefit of less scrutiny thanks to its short time on the market?
Idk prob not bro smoke 20 a day lmao
>thinks tobacco is bad
Reddit is that way champ
If tobacco is good then why don’t you just chew on it like the dog you are
Hey champ new boosters are available you should go get them
yes, is called looking like a giant homosexual
>smoke half a pack of menthols a day
>hiking up a mountain is hard but not impossible
>vape all day long
>out of breath and lungs hurt
Eventually quit both and feel way healthier. I would say tobacco is safer than vapes from my experience and seeing people irl live 80+ years old and smoke all their life.
An x-ray tech told me cigarettes are the lesser of the evils
With that said doctors want more patients
I HATE VAPES I HATE VAPES I HATE VAPES AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
STOP TRYING TO GET ME TO GO BACK TO IT YOU FRICKING israelite
FRICK VAPING. IF I GO BACK TO VAPING AGAIN I AM LITERALLY GOING TO KILL MYSELF
Frick me into my lungs collapse thats disgusting, thanks for the motivation to keep going anon
What a job
that one motherfricker ripping elf bars at 100% lung poewr for like 16 hours a day lmao
dude dead at 23
Putting anything in your lungs aside from air is unnatural. But the actual risks associated with anything directly correlate to moderation. You can't discuss risks of vaping without first accounting for the level of use. Same as cigarettes.
Given that vape fluid is mostly glycerin, it's bound to cause damage of some kind. I've known a couple of vapers with a light smoker's cough. Smoker's cough is caused by the lungs actively expelling contaminants. It flushes the lungs with mucus to create a transport container for toxins, which rise up the throat and cause that cough that forces the mucus out of the mouth ... tl'dr: The lungs know something is amiss and they're fighting against it.
You really don't need an in-depth study to make a likely-accurate assumption about most things. And this is one of them. The only thing a study will tell you is how much is required for what amount of damage in what period of time.
I fricking HATE v*ping. Frick vaping. Destroy v*pes. Behead v*pes. Roundhouse kick a v*pe into the trashcan. Do a dark ritual to crucify and stay away from filthy evil disgusting v*pes. Obliterate v*pes with a laser. etc. FRICK VAPES. I AM FREE. MY LUNGS WILL BE HEALTHY ONCE MORE.
All those idiots with fricked up lungs, maybe?
i can't find it but there was a long term study of circus performers who inhaled aerosolized propylene glycol continuously(basically unflavored vape) as part of the "smoke" show.
it's irreversible lung damage - ppl who are addicts are gonna have emphysema.
>serious health effects
Yeah. It's seriously detrimental to your social health because you look like a gay. I don't care if you vape, but don't do it in public. It is easily one of the most moronic looking fads to come across in the last 40 years. And I was alive in the 80s. I've seen some moronic shit.
Nicotine is nicotine, and nicotine salts are even x20 more addictive and stronger. Im horrifyed seeing 19 yo zoomers puffing of stick cancer dispensing vapes woth coconut flavor or some shit and swallowing ungodly amounts of nicotine which are a fricking nightmare to quit when you actually grow up and start thinking like a normal human. Thank god i was able to quit all of that shit.
>t. Ex smoker, has smoked almost everything in the world.
nicotine isn't the thing that causes cancer, moron.
Listen up here you daft c**t. The point is not if nicotine gives cancer (which it does because its a fricking toxic chemical and thats why the nicotine in your vape makes your tongue burn/itchy to non smokers) the point is that nicotine addiction is fricking nasty and its completely moronic to deliberately have a bad time due to nicotine withdrawal and shit. You can say whatever bullshit cope that it makes you concentrate, it makes you have more test, it gives you 3 inches of dick, it makes your man boobs go away, you are not fricking convincing me because i probably was one of the heaviest fricking smokers on this board and i tell you son, its not worth it, so stop acting like some kind of andrew tate clone and fricking own it. YOU are the one being moronic for trying to convince yourself giving yourself a nicotine addiction is positive in any way. Shut the frick up and go do your fricking homework you moronic zoomer.
>tongue burn/itchy
You're using fake vapes. Never had this with any vape.
>the point is that nicotine addiction is fricking nasty
oh so nicotine makes you mad and that's your argument. yeah nicotine withdrawal sucks, but my post was about it giving you cancer (it doesn't)
>You can say whatever bullshit cope that it makes you concentrate, it makes you have more test, it gives you 3 inches of dick, it makes your man boobs go away, you are not fricking convincing me
I'm not interested in convincing you. You made up all these 'copes' to pretend you have someone to argue against. All I said was it doesn't give you cancer.
>YOU are the one being moronic for trying to convince yourself giving yourself a nicotine addiction is positive in any way.
Never said it was positive, I said it wasn't the thing in cigarettes that gives you cancer.
>so stop acting like some kind of andrew tate clone and fricking own it.
You're the one pretending to be hard mate. No idea where you got andrew tate from????? Sounds like projection. I don't like that person at all.
>Shut the frick up and go do your fricking homework you moronic zoomer.
You're the one getting triggered, projecting all your shit onto me from an 8-word post I made and talking about some spastic e-celeb, but I'm the zoomer? Okay buddy.
Yeah, nicotine is just harmless. It's the toxic crap in cigarette tar like nitric oxide and aromatic compounds that make them harmful. The Japanese started adding activated charcoal filters to their cigarettes that removed about 95% of those compounds but let the nicotine zip right through. They did this starting in the 1970s. Cancer rates plummeted. Look up "Japanese Smoking Paradox". This is the real reason for that.
>nicotine is just harmless
>nicotine isn't the thing that causes cancer
That's an assumption, not a fact. Nicotine hasn't been proven carcinogenic or not. It isn't totally harmless in any case because it causes cardiovascular stress. It's probably a bit worse than caffeine, so mild, but not harmless. It's also an instant dopamine releaser so it's unhealthy psycho-spiritually which people often neglect.
maybe, maybe not. it's irrelevant when you consider the alternative which is fricking smoking cigarettes. vaping is at least 99% better than smoking and if that the only thing that keeps you from smoking, it's good for you.
frick everybody that tells you differently.
No, but that might change in 20-30 years when 40% of zoomers have some new type of chronic lung disease
It took us a long time to realise tobacco/ wood smoke/ asbestos was bad to breathe in, because the main risk comes from repeated exposure over many years. Even with advances in medical tests, if vaping is bad we still might not know for decades.
you're technically correct, but only technically.
its true we need long term longitudinal studies to be sure, but in the meantime, its very reasonable to assume that whatever harm vaping causes is much, much less than actual cigarettes
there simply isn't that much harmful shit in vape aerosol, certainly much less than what is found in tobacco smoke
>its very reasonable to assume that whatever harm vaping causes is much, much less than actual cigarettes
It really isn't. Nobody has regularly inhaled aerosolised propylene glycol for long enough for that to be a reasonable assumption. It's cope. Maybe it's a carcinogen. Maybe it mechanically damages the lung like asbestos. We might find out in 20y. It's like the SARMs vs steroids debate. You can opt for the new unstudied thing that's marketed as a safer alternative, or the thing with known risks. Both are foolish, one just lets you pretend otherwise.
>t. former vaper
>Nobody has regularly inhaled aerosolised propylene glycol for long enough for that to be a reasonable assumption
propylene glycol aerosol was studied as a potential hospital disinfectant in the past
it was found to be safe (albeit it was dismissed in favour of UV light)
ditto glycerin, which is also known to be safe to inhale. smoke machines come in 2 varieties, those using dry ice and those using glycerin.
>Maybe it's a carcinogen
extremely unlikely for both ingredients, see above.
they're not some new complex molecule that just showed up, they were selected specifically because they have a long history of use and are known to be safe to inhale.
>Maybe it mechanically damages the lung like asbestos
maybe, but based on what we know it seems unlikely
both ingredients are easily absorbed and metabolized without any harmful byproducts being created
>It's like the SARMs vs steroids debate
extremely no.
sarms can easily be inferred to carry more or less the same risks as steroids, assuming they actually do work
the active ingredient that causes anabolism is the same ingredient that causes all the side effects
if it can bind to androgen receptors in your muscles, it can bind to the HPTA, causing suppression of endogenous test
and it can also bind to other androgen receptors causing androgenic sides
and if it is a substance that can be aromatized, you can also infer it will cause estrogenic sides
this is not the same situation as vapes at all
the active ingredient in both vaping and smoking is nicotine, which is known to be addictive, but not harmful (modulo a small increase to cardiovascular risk due to increased blood pressure short term)
if vaping can deliver that active ingredient without any harmful extras, it can be safe and still work fine.
>sarms can easily be inferred to carry more or less the same risks as steroids
If you only consider side-effects downstream of androgen receptor modulation i.e. assuming the substances are not also toxins, carcinogens or modulators of other receptors. That seems a very big assumption.
correct.
however, it does not apply to vaping.
the individual substances contained in vape aerosol are already known to be non-toxic and non-carginogenic
pg and vg have both been studied and used as inhalants for a long time
nicotine has also been studied and found to be non-toxic (in amounts relevant to smokers) and non-carginogenic
and the food flavorings used to make flavored juice have also been subject to testing/certification (although, granted, for ingestion, not inhalation. still if something is non-toxic and non-carginogenic if ingested, its probably the same if inhaled)
and again, for the 1000th fricking time, the most important consideration here is not whether vaping is 100% healthy and safe, but whether its significantly healthier/safer than cigarettes. which it is with 99.9999999999999999% probability.
nobody is suggesting that non-smokers take up vaping because its a fun and safe hobby.
nobody is suggesting that non-smokers take up vaping as a healthy way to supplement nicotine as a nootropic or something (use patches in this scenario)
people are recommending vaping as a healthy alternative to smoking regular cigarettes, because its much healthier and because its found to be the easiest/most reliable way to stop smoking (probably because it allows you to maintain you smoking habit, as opposed to asking you to stop cold turkey or switch to gums or whatever.)
You need to consider the volume or amounts aswell when you talk about toxic chemicals. Fruit and vegetables contains methanol, which is 100% toxic to humans. But that wont kill you or do any harm because of the low amounts,
none
fren is oncologist user
safest are those nicotine salt dip packs
vapes only bad bcuz oil, but its been proven repeatedly that shit doesnt cake onto lungs
can also confirm that vapers have no tar coughs post mil gas chamber training. anyone who smokes and been tear gassed knows all the cig tar gets cleansed from lungs. vapers only hack up a bit of clear fluid (normal, same as non smokers).
Used to smoke, only vape now, my lungs feel like nonsmoking days and have zero issues or coughs during cardio. Vape trees too, same story. I hit a blunt tho and its chokin tokin time.
>t 11b vet
ITT:
>ex smokers (the most obnoxious homosexuals of all, on the same level as former alcoholics)
>chinese heavy metal juice sniffers (extremely gay, like vegans and e-scooter riders)
>non-smokers (can't afford cigarettes) (have very good sense of smell, with dramatically cough if you light up a smoke 50 meters away)
>health conscious inner city dwellers (very concerned about their lungs) (they have to be able to hold breath to give better blowjobs to their boyfriends)
People get addicted to nicotine because they were mistreated as kids, no exceptions.
That makes smoking of any sort a mental cope for broken brains. No exceptions.
Lust provoking image to make sure broken brains read my diagnosis.
Thanks Dr. Anon
>Lust provoking image to make sure broken brains read my diagnosis.
Said broken brain guy saving this image
just give me the controller back you pouty b***h i dont have time for your bullshit rn
Not ones that don't involve cheap Chinese lead-infused vapes
nicotine is a pesticide. In any form, it increases gastric acid production, raises blood pressure and promotes angiogenesis - giving nascent tumors exactly what they need to grow and thrive.