Is there really any evidence that fat people can't help being fat and it's more complicated than CICO or is this redditor coping?
Is there really any evidence that fat people can't help being fat and it's more complicated than CICO or is this redditor coping?
There's none. It's just liberal bullshit where liberals and other weak homosexuals make excuses for nonsense, like protecting violent Black folk.
you sound like a fricking boomer or a millenial with survivorship biass thus acting like a boomer
You sound like you don't know what you're talking about
You sound like a fat homosexual
put down the fork fatass
Based
homie what reddit is that way
Anons who were previously obese, let us know
read this thread
fat people think that everyone else also eats Panda Express, and other goyslop every meal of the day.
>fat people think that everyone else also eats Panda Express, and other goyslop every meal of the day.
Interesting. It's funny how that's also how women think about men, that 'all' men are chad and the betas don't even register in their heads until they need money from them.
Delusional people have similar thought processes I guess.
Former fatty. Still kinda am. Was 270lbs 2 years ago. Got down to 220lbs as of last December and have stagnated since.
Goyslop is delicious, addictive, and so horribly unfulfilling that you end up eating $20 worth to feel satiated. I still find myself buckling occasionally and buying taco bell slop.
Cut out all fast foods and any preprepared meals as an option and the weight will come off. Yeah you'll still be fat if you prepare high calorie foods at home, but it's much easier to control how many calories your food has at home.
I wonder, the major addictive component of fast food is usually MSG so maybe you can satisfy your fast food urges by adding a little to your homecooked meals as a regular salting ingredient
It’s more complicated than cico because it’s literally an addiction. You KNOW you shouldn’t be eating something and you still do. Because caloric deficit is unbearable.
How things clicked for me was to realize that lot of CICO advocates using the laws of thermodynamics are not considering the full picture of biochemistry of the human body (insulin? blood sugar?). While eating less does sound more intuitive, it doesn't work like that. Once I changed the composition of food I eat on a daily basis (lowering carbs, higher the fat) then my weight started crashing down like fast.
Because CICO is just a statement of thermodynamic fact. Anybody can brute force a restrictive diet for a few months. But generally speaking, the only long-term successful weight loss comes from a calorie deficit PLUS:
>nutritious
>practical
>sustainable (for life)
>tasty
>fiber
>protein
>flexible (allowing for social occasions etc)
On top of things like good sleep, daily movement, stress reduction, bonding with other humans etc — which may not change calories but will definitely hit energy and willpower.
It's all connected (and complex) and CICO is just one part of it.
That doesn't invalidate CICO. People always make this statement like it somehow invalidates the principles of CICO and it doesn't. You discovered what most people discover when they start cutting calories. There are ways to do it better or worse. If you wanted to eat 1800 calories per day and you decided to spread that out between 3 shot glasses of olive oil, you're going to be absolutely miserable. If you decide to change you diet to eat food that is less calorie dense and more filling, which is higher in protein or fat and lower in carbohydrates, lower in sugar, etc. you aren't proving CICO wrong, you're proving it right as long as all of that food adds up to a caloric deficit. The lie of something like keto is that you can eat as much as you want of something so long as it fits the profile of foods that allegedly don't make you gain weight, so people think that they can eat 40 pounds of butter wrapped bacon per day and lose weight just so long as they don't accidentally let a morsel of bread pass their lips, and it's not true.
>That doesn't invalidate CICO
It does invalidate the morons who parrot it around here though.
CICO is the most important part that people really dont like to admit though. Its really easy to miscount your calories, overeat, and under exercise.
Yes, its a lot more complicated overall, but CICO is the underlying principal. If you're not at a deficit you will not lose fat. If you are moving less than you eat you will not lose fat.
There are things that make it faster or slower, but only marginally so. The biggest issue with HURR CARBS BAD is that a lot of people horribly miscount their carbs and use carbs as a vehicle for a whole bunch of other shit that they miscalculate.
I'm 172cm and used to be 98kg. I spent most of my time sitting, didn't exercise, and only ate prepackaged shit heated up in a microwave or oven at home. One day I woke up and just couldn't take it anymore. I threw out everything in my kitchen, went to a bookstore, bought the first dieting cookbook I grabbed, and followed it religiously.
That was a year ago and I'm at 80kg now. The only exercise I get right now is lifting boxes for work and walking to the grocery store. CICO works no matter what any fat ass tries to claim.
Was 210lb at 5'4" 27yo. Got down to 150 by 29 and fasted my way to 120 by 30. Been floating 120-130 since then and I'm 33 now. Looking back on it now the biggest thing for me was opting to run at work for my lunch break rather than eat. So that was the caloric reduction and the activity increase. Started out walking of course but later didn't care how I smelled at work I started to run. (Mechanic)
I feel good but being an obeast at 27 has left me with loose skin the won't go away no matter what I do. Even at sub 120 I'm stuck in skinny fat mode. Guess I should start lifting.
post breasts
Im currently obese. Its just because I eat a lot of cheese and salami.
It's a matter of will, determination and self-steem.
Former fatty here, 6 foot tall, used to be 270lbs. Now I pretty easily maintain around 170. I still watch my food intake but I'm not autistic about calories. Just do rough calculations and try to stay at my maintenance but if I eat a bit over it doesn't really do anything. If I pig out excessively over a week or two like during holidays I will gain 5-10lbs fairly easy but I also lose it quickly.
uhm you should be dead now >:(
>sanism
Being bigoted against insane people?
Started 5’8 260lbs, down to 200
Counted calories for the first 40lbs, then I completely 100% cut out all fast food, candy and soda (Goyslop)
For the last 20lbs I started shopping at a co-op and the quality difference in the food is immense. I eat less because my food has more soul in it, and I also dropped my carb intake and brought up my protien and fat intake.
Oh, I also exercise at least an hour every day. Weights, cardio, etc.
5'11" here. While I wasn't obese, I was overweight. I noticed I was over weight at around 80 kg, and decided I needed to do something. I know I can't control myself around junk, so I didn't buy any anymore. I knew that eating meat and root vegetables kept me full longer, so I ate more of them. It's easier to abstain when there is nothing causing the temptation. Now I sit soundly in the 62-63 kg range. I haven't gained any weight back for 5 years.
>100kgs (220lbs)
>down to 60kg (132lbs)
I was just fat and didn't really do anything except fast, walk and pay a bit of attention to the food I ate. Its not hard, OPs picture fatty is just a mental patient trying to cope, if you are fat and cannot lose it and start coming up with weird shit like that, then you need psychiatric intervention.
Once I quit eating "goyslop" and started eating normal, local foods I felt a lot better. These days I cannot stand any processed foods or takeout, it just tastes like the rancid seed oils and feels like ass cancer in styrofoam packaging.
Only thing that lard golem is broadly correct is that people do have different body types, some are naturally built like a barrel, or skinny etc. But nothing to do with eating or stuffing your face full of oreos and claiming its natural and healthy.
Combo of
>upbringing
>personality
>mental health factors
>lack of peer pressure to be more in shape (doesn’t have to be explicit)
This is gonna sound controversial but peer pressure doesn't work for everyone. I was made fun of multiple times for being ugly in HS and it only made me binge eat more.
You can't make everyone quit alcohol or drugs via shaming or peer pressure, why do people think bullying fat people will make them more likely to get thin?
Notice how I said explicit.
Implicit peer pressure is more friendly. Like being friends with a bunch of fit dudes or going to an SEC university. You’ll want to fit in more so you’ll lose the weight.
>however if you’re autistic (like 75% board) you won’t get the clue until your Junior or senior year.
Hi, ex obeser here. Lost 14kg in past year still eating the foods I love, mcdonalds, chocolate, cookies, fast food etc just (way) less of it, and it worked.
But to add, I wasn't obese since childhood, it occured during covid so perhaps there is something there
Yeah, you ate too many calories dumb frick
I know 😀
And I don't regret it a single bit that shit was delicious
6'2 250lbs, dropped to about 170 lbs in 8 months when I was about 17, I started with IF then progressed into OMAD with a serious caloric deficit (some days I would be eating 800 calories while I had 1h30 of PE class).
Eventually I started lifting, now im 190lbs and maintain it, but it took me a good couple of years to break out of the "count every calorie, make sure to not go above 2200 calories" mentality, which slowly transitioned into trying to get 150-200g of protein per day and if some days I only get 2000 calories, and others I get 3000, it eventually balances out
To answer the question, it's hard to get out of the fatty mentality, especially because the first couple of weeks of adaptation to whatever regimen you're following to lose weight are the hardest. The second other difficult part is family and friends, which influence what you're gonna eat. Other than that, do CICO and you'll see results
Damn I'm at 250 lbs right now at 6'0. No one ever calls me fat, but girls are intimidated by me. Maybe if I lose the weight I'll also lose my KHHV status.
I was 6'1" 250lbs six years ago. Across four years I dropped to 175 and have been there since. Losing weight is simple, but hard. It has to be intrinsic, though. No one can make you lose weight; you need to want to put the work in yourself.
I'm 185 cm, and was 92 kg last year. Down to 81 kg now by removing all shite market food I was eating. My inability to get a good sleep has stalled my muscle gains, unfortunately.
Im 185cm 93kg rn lmao
Do you intend to cut, or are you OK with your current weight?
I can't stop thinking about food unless I am heavily distracted by some other activity or just finished a heavy meal.
At my heaviest I was 229 lbs at just over 6’ tall when I was about 20 years old.
I started to get better about eating when I was a senior in collegr and dropped down to 190 lbs.
after graudation I wasn’t working out and eating too much and crept back up over 200.
Just a few months before I turned 24 I decided I was going to change. I swore off everything I used to binge on (bread, pasta, potatoes, rice) and focused on protein.
At one point I got down to 159 lbs from my diet (and I picked up running and started lifting for real). That was too low so I built some muslce. But ever since then I have stayed around 175 lbs and gained an inch in height from having a strong back and strangers compliment me on how lean and fit I am and think I’m 24-25 years old instead of almost 30. I have total control over my weight and can put it on and lose it with ease just by eating more or less.
So yes, it’s true, and if I can go from being a flabby, out of shape guy to being so fit that strangers comment on it regularly and women call me “gorgeous” all of you gays can do it too.
ozimpuc
>tl;dr Normies are morons and I don't listen to or respect them.
Most common variety morons just don't know what it takes. They meet with the smallest amount of hunger or resistance and they give up. Also, they "listen" to their body, which is how they got obese in the first place. Body says "eat that fricking cake!" It's up to us to tell it to shut up. Because our emotions, cravings, feelings, are moronic.
And then, in America especially, you get morons telling you how to do what you're already doing. "You can eat a little bit of [absolute filth]. Everything in moderation. You have to reward yourself every once in a while." Corn syrup isn't food. Enriched wheat flour and baby carrots that "scratch your throat" aren't food. This is my meal plan. I do this every week. I eat the same thing every week. Shut the frick up. My reward isn't being a fat-ass troglodyte adding shame and misery to this gay world.
I lost 65 lbs and I still get people telling me what to do. I still have visible fat on my sides when shirtless, and they'll call me "skinny" because I'm just not overweight. When I say I got 25-30 pounds to go, they always respond "where's it gonna come from? haha" not realizing that there's fat inside you as well as adipose.
As a teenager I was ~300lbs. 8 years later, I'm 170. I lost most of the weight after moving and committing to not buying junkfood, and not eating out. Also cut out all sugary drinks. I lost weight fast, since it takes a truly massive amount of eating to be that fat. More recently, I've lost 30 lbs after having slipped up and gained some weight, I re-committed to not buying any junkfood at the grocery store. The other big thing is eating at a dining table instead of at the computer or while watching TV.
In my personal experience, the biggest key factor affecting weightloss is entirely environmental, but you can create that environment. If you're in a house full of crap food, you're just going to eat it when you have a slip in "willpower", but if you avoid the circumstances that would allow that slip to result in eating, then you're on track. The other part is just eating minimally refined foods, and plenty of protein and fat for maximum satiation.
lost >30kg eating two meals a day (115 --> 80kg). 90% of my diet was snacks and fast food, like mcdonalds and chocolate blocks. I'm eating healthy and exercising now
lost 50 pounds this year, was a fatty my whole life.
its just CICO.
i live with family and theyre all at least a little overweight with fat people habits, i fall for addiction easily, and cooking and food have always been a big part of my life.
losing weight is hard for me and gaining weight is easy, but the inverse is true for my friend whos a picky eater and just forgets to eat some days.
its not a physical problem, but the difficulty of gaining/losing can be way different for different people
Am 5'9, was 242lbs, down to 195lbs (long way to go still). I never got into the whole "this is just the way I am" mindset, I hated myself. Growing up I was always 155-165lbs. I would make 2 points:
It's one thing to be fat and not accept it as normal and healthy and it's another thing to treat it as perfectly fine. The Body Positivity movement is a disgusting and dangerous neoliberal mental illness. We should all strive to better ourselves.
2nd thing, I had a doctor once totally clarify the "It's genetic!" argument for me. I asked him why losing weight and gaining muscle varied so much from person to person and he said there are absolutely genetic factors at play... And went on to adamantly state that is just a baseline. Genetic factors can ABSOLUTELY be overcome. You CAN lose weight, you CAN grow muscle. He said the genetic factor just increases or decreases difficulty, it does not prevent ANYONE from becoming IST.
WAGMI
Used to be severely obese. Some people tend to have huge appetites that barely get filled. I believe it's all in the brain.
I sincerely think amphetamines should start being legally used as a treatment for weight loss like they were before nixon and Reagan fricked us over with the war on drugs.
I used to be at 103kg (185cm), with 0 muscle and felt like it was impossible to ever lose weight.
Started working out, cut down to 78kg and haven't looked back once. Wagmi.
Theres some environmental circumstances. I could never have lost the weight if I hadn't moved out of my enabling parent's house. But it's also hard to maintain fitness when you have to work 6 days a week. There's definitely some genetic predisposition to it, just like how some are predisposed to being underweight.
6' 300 down to 210. Still a little bit fat, but I'm putting on muscle now. I crash dieted for about 6 months on exclusively 1 cup of rice, 1 cup of black beans, 1 pound of chicken breast per day to get down to 230 before switching to something more sustainable.
Now I currently eat 3600+ cal a day for training, but when I was maintaining at 210, my maintenance was between 2400 and 3000, which was plenty enough food.
Fatties are lying when they say eating enough to feel full makes them fat, just don't fricking drink soda or eat candy. It's not even sugar or carbs or fat that's the enemy, it's literally just sucrose in refined sweets.
I was 142 kilograms at one point of my life and lost all my weight until 83 kg (lowest I've ever gone) and i think the redditor above is just coping. There is nothing hard about losing fat if you are not someone who has no self-discipline or maybe if you don't use a medicine that makes you gain weight as a side effect or smth.
I'm not sure of my heaviest weight (kept breaking scales until I dropped $100 on a good one) but highest number I got on record is 433lbs @ 6' 3". Currently hovering around 180lbs, after hitting a low of 170lbs in February of this year. Been megafat since I was a kid, I was 200lbs by the time I entered middle school, because my parents were poor fat morons. So this is the skinniest I've ever been.
Its literally just CICO. There is no magical diet or exercise regime. I was losing more than 2lbs per week at one point while eating nothing but pizza, taco bell & beer, I just it kept it around 2000kcals per day, just to prove a point. If you count your calories and understand your TDEE, you will lose weight, even better if you occasionally fast for more than 24 hours as well. The only reason people remain fat is because they reject this basic premise for delusions that allow themselves to not have to make changes to their lives.
i was obese from age 10 until 16. i’ve been healthy weight range ever since, with regular exercise and healthy eating. it was incredibly difficult, as most of my family is the “big people run in our family” type of excuse givers. i definitely see my parents breaking down with diabetes and high blood pressure and stuff like that. sad.
As a recovering food addict I can attest that while cico works, there are a lot of hormonal and mental issues that will make it an uphill battle to achieve and keep a healthy weight.
The body has all sorts of hormonal and even pavlovian responses. Eating a small bit so that you are no longer hungry but the body flooding itself hormones to influence one to eat more is a challenge. On the mental side breaking a habit or pattern related to eating is difficult. The compelling impulse to eat regardless of physical hunger. You"ll find many obese people will report a history of child abuse or neglect, and that will need to be unraveled before long term progress can be achieved.
Lost 100lbs. There was a point in my life where eating was more compulsive and dopamine rewarding than wanking. All I think about is food unless I am forcibly distracting myself. I can understand even if I hate it and that part of myself.
They say a picture says more than a thousand words, so..
>CICO
>Eating the right things
>one cheat day
>lifting
You have no excuse. Frick tou. Just do it. WAGMI
We dindu them cupcakes
We wuz born fat
We dindu muffins
yes but its mostly rodent studies
>Since 1980, obesity prevalence among US adults has soared from 14% to 42%. The commonly accepted explanation is pervasive overeating: ever-increasing energy intake as the population gains weight, year after year. However, evidence does not support this hypothesis. National data on energy intake and energy availability show increases between 1961 and 2000, during modern industrialization of food; but a plateau or declines thereafter-even as obesity continued rising-and while physical activity modestly increased. Thus, Americans appear to be eating relatively less since 2000, for ever-increasing body sizes, as time has progressed.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35460220/
People may be eating (slightly) less but they're moving around a lot less.
>while physical activity modestly increased
Learn to read.
The explanation for that data is very simple: It takes time to become fat if you only have a small surplus. The reason why people weren't as fat in the year 2000 as they are now is that many of them simply hadn't eaten in a caloric surplus for long enough to become obese. Remember, intake vs. expenditure only defines the SPEED with which the average person's weight changes, not the absolute value. In other words: Wondering why the average weight has changed while the average caloric surplus hasn't is like wondering why the position of your car has changed while you are driving with constant speed.
Also Americans have become shorter since the year 2000 due to less whites and more spics, that might play a role as well.
It doesnt
are you saying it's been accounted for?
because statswise if kcal surplus stays constant but height decreases then obesity will increase
Oh hey you're the rat guy who doesn't actually read the links you post.
>Not even a study, it's an op-ed
>Only datum is a singular chart
>Energy intake is based on 24-h dietary recall data from NHANES
Meaning it relies on accurate and honest estimations of energy intake
>average intake is less than 2200 kcal
lmao
> but a plateau or declines thereafter-even as obesity continued rising-and while physical activity modestly increased.
It turns out that most of the figures you see for physical activity as far as increasing the metabolic rate are exaggerated.
>Thus, Americans appear to be eating relatively less since 2000, for ever-increasing body sizes, as time has progressed.
LOL
BTW, just to provide the source for the image
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8805510/
Everyone I know that is overweight has no concept of how to eat healthy. Honestly they probably never will, either. The world is full of people that only know how to eat based on impulse.
>eat based on impulse
99.99% of human existence this was fine. Only a problem now because of processed foods
Processed foods aren’t going anywhere, so people either need to evolve or continue down the path of becoming a shapeless blob. Nobody can even address the problem because society deemed that it is not a problem being fat.
>people either need to evolve
will take a few hundred years at least
I can get it done tomorrow.
DM me.
False. Fat people were considered more attractive in the past because it was a sign of wealth when 99.9999% of people were starving
99% of people were never starving unless you mean communist china
Bullshit
I have never read a book from antiquity or the Middle Ages extolling fatness as a sign of beauty.
>he fell for the 'fertility goddess statue' propaganda
do some basic research you troglodyte. every attractive woman in an ancient painting was either slim or at best mildly chubby. none of this hamplanet stuff.
>that only know how to eat based on impulse.
To be fair that's how we're meant to be.
Nature doesn't need us to waste time rationalizing eating, it just needs us to eat to survive
>trauma, mental health, addiction
lol. It's the parents 99% of the time.
Parents being dumb is the biggest cause but yes some people do use food as an outlet for their stress, and flavorists design processed foods to be as delicious as possible. Once you are fat it's very hard to change your habits as a result. That being said, I think fat shaming is incredibly effective.
People wouldn’t be compelled to get help for alcoholism or cocaine addiction for example if it didn’t have a stigma either
No it's just cope. Fatties are a drain on society and if they aren't actively working to lose weight then they should be made fun of. Every fatty that's doesn't have a gym members should be forced to wear a badge
>fat people can't help being fat
I wouldn't say it's this extreme but yes things are harder for some people then they are for others. A lot of people use it as an excuse to not even try and that's why they get shit on but due to various factors some people have difficulty doing things that to other people seem easy. For some people it's losing weight and being disciplined with what they eat. It's why everyone isn't rich and successful and has the perfect body. I know people are going to shit on me for this because they expect everyone to be perfectly disciplined in everything but no one replying to me is remotely successful in anything, hence why they frequent IST.
For a fattie to lose weight is like for a midget to become a professional marathon runner.
>no one successful is on IST
This is probably the biggest lie I see on here. I’m not sure where it comes from. The reality is the average ISTner is internet savvy, male, and conservative. Therefore, it’s not uncommon to see software engineer types on here, myself included. Call this type of person autistic if you want, but they do make money. I have a good job, a girlfriend, good family relationships, and sort of ok friendships (working on it). I’m one data point but I’m sure I’m not the only one who has a normal enough life but still feels the draw of IST and its quirkiness. And I fricking hate Reddit and can never stomach going there. I’ve said it many times but on here you are free to speak your mind, whereas IRL or on any other site I really have to watch it as I have gotten into confrontations before and I dislike it
I know it's the Internet so take what I say with a grain of salt but I have a significant other, 2 kids and 1 on the way, I have friendships, and own my own company where I work seasonally as well as work for the state of Alaska pretty much year round. I made 100k this year with my business and it's just my 2nd year in business. I haven't achieved full potential yet. I've made approx 150k so far this year and will make about 170 for the year.
Basically I'm agreeing with you. There's other successful people in here I'm sure.
I'm a virgin at 32 years old and never had a job that paid more than $19 an hour.
I'm a virgin at 32 years old and never had a job that paid more than $19 an hour, but I own 2 houses. That makes me one rank above you.
if he really felt that way he wouldnt need to preface his post by saying he is 'normal sized'
>he is only 350lbs, aka "smallfat" aka "normal sized"
>I feel like you can't make fun of mentally handicapped people, other sexual orientations, other races, etc. so you turn to fat "people"
so true, we should be able to fake fun of everyone.
its like quitting smoking once you are fatty
I have a couple of fat friends that try to lose weight who believe that their DNA is the culprit behind their inability to lose weight but at the end of the day I always see them gulping down those pizza slices like pigs. I ask them why did you eat the pizza right now? Didn't you already eat you meals today? They respond with
>Well, I was hungry!
Fattie hunger is nothing like you normalweights imagine. It resonates in the head, almost burning sometimes and the only thing you can think of is food. I’ve managed to lose weight numerous times and regained it all back. I tried mild deficit, sports, extreme deficit, meme diets, everything. The only thing in common is you become obsessed with food. I spent all my free time reading recipes, watching cooking shows, sharpening my cooking santo knife in anticipation of cooking my next healthy meal when my calorie regimen would allow.
I’ve never seen naturally thin people struggle as much. Healthy eating requires minimal effort. When they overeat just a bit they get nauseous and literally can’t go on, when I overeat — I eat more and then some.
Obesity is some kind of psychiatric disease. And it has no cure, mockery doesn’t help as it doesn’t help with schizophrenia or autism.
Part of it is the food itself. Hyper palatable food is like a drug and should be treated as such.
This.
Goyslop is absurdly addicting, and yes, it is very stimulating to the pallette as well.
Soon as I cut out the goyslop, I lost a crapton of weight. Still fat but not obese anymore.
Truth. I eat relatively clean and I'm in shape but it's basically a full-time lifestyle. It would be so easy to order pizza every week or swing through the drive-thru after a long day. And it would be delicious. But I don't do those things because I know they destroy my body. Normies (i.e. fatties) don't internalize these things. They eat that pizza and goyslop bc it's so incredibly easy and satisfying to do so.
>Fattie hunger is nothing like you normalweights imagine. It resonates in the head, almost burning sometimes and the only thing you can think of is food.
Yeah, that's not normal and closer to what people trying to hit single digit BF% feel. The average fatty doesn't feel this way. They're addicted to food and get 'hangery' at most. But even if they had this insatiable hunger, that's no excuse to stuff themselves with schlopp. Show me the 300 lbs who's fat from inhaling chicken casserole and cucumber salad.
>I’ve never seen naturally thin people struggle as much. Healthy eating requires minimal effort.
Bullshit. Normalgays struggle with slop all the time. You're being gaslit or wilfully obvlivious.
>I’ve managed to lose weight numerous times and regained it all back.
Yes, as soon as you revert to your fat frick habits you get on a 'fat frick arc' and it's only a matter of time until you're fat again. The same applies to anything else in life. Small habits compound over time.
t. lost 100 lbs twice
>lost 100lbs twice
i know that feel. im over halfway through round two at the moment and i swear to god ill kill myself it it happens again. Hopefully shouldnt since i dropped the main source of my stress which also is what kept me away from the gym (combined with 2 really poorly timed surgeries and an injury).
If you dont mind me asking, how big did you get and are you dealing with shit like loose skin? I know the stretch marks will remain but im really fricking frightened of loose skin.
>Fattie hunger is nothing like you normalweights imagine. It resonates in the head, almost burning sometimes and the only thing you can think of is food.
It's because you losers have weak minds
I can ingest nothing but coffee, oats and water for a whole day and be fine
Not fat guy chiming in, but calling someone with an addiction weak minded doesn’t make much sense. Addiction psychology sort of eludes your ability to use reason and discipline in a way other things don’t.
That’s not to say will power isn’t important for treating it, it’s just that it’s not the same experience as somebody giving up a bad habit that never turned into an addiction. If you’ve never tried to recover from a serious addiction you simply won’t be able to understand, this is part of what drives the anger and confusion a lot of people here feel towards obese people (including myself at times). The inability to empathize with such a severe addiction, same reason we get pissed off by bums shooting up heroin on the sidewalk.
It would be like me going up to a heroin addict and saying “you weak minded loser, just don’t do heroin it’s so simple. I can easily go an entire month without doing heroin!” He’d probably think I’m moronic.
That all being said I understand you’re probably like 17 so this will fall on deaf ears but yeah
>Fattie hunger is nothing like you normalweights imagine.
How do you know how other people experience hunger you dumb frick. Maybe everyone else experiences it the same way as you, but are not weak-willed subhumans? Did you consider that?
Unlike you I deal with other people daily and communicate with them. They stop eating when they’re full. If they eat too much at a time they could easily skip a meal. There’s no compulsive hunger present.
Yeah, because they are sane. have a nice day
This is basically me. At my lowest weight, I was constantly hungry, watching food videos, thinking about food. I'd OMAD so I could eat an entire rotisserie chicken in one meal and still be hungry. It was miserable. I would volume eat 3+ lbs. of vegetables with dinner desperate to make the hunger stop. Put some weight back on but don't spend all day fantasizing about my next 400 calorie meal.
To be honest, if I went vegan, I'd probably lose a fair bit of weight, but I eat meat for the protein. Rather be fatter with better body comp.
I believe the answer is gut microbiome being fricked by calorie-dense nutrient-poor goyslop and thus inducing craving for moar. I suggest you slam fiber, fruits, vegetables, and follow it up with probiotics (pill form and/or fermented or cultured food like yoghurt or kombucha) and maybe a multivitamin and see if that helps. I guarantee some healthy gut flora and better nutrition will fix your shit.
>kind of psychiatric disease
kind of close, its hormonal
fat people dont know what real hunger is, we have fat so we can feel warm, function and survive while not eating for long periods of time like during winter, famines or whatever, fat people can literally fast until they are lean, no they wont fricking die, fat people hunger is a joke
There absolutely are genetic differences in satiety and other factors, but CICO is real.
It’s like every other health issue that has a genetic component, it’s not your fault but it is your problem to deal with, and as a human with agency you have to do what it takes to deal with it.
>Is there really any evidence
What do you expect, a reddit type research like "lonely people are unhappier" ?
Most of them can't help it, meaning it takes overwhelming willpower for them, because it's like an addiction that gives them a sliver of satisfaction in their shitty lives.
Them getting fit would be the equivalent of a drug addict giving drugs up. He will then say to you: so what now?
It's true that there is a massive genetic and environmental difference in how much hunger you feel and how well you become satiated with food. This doesn't mean that you can't muster the willpower to perform a fork putdown, though.
Being fat is basically like being an alcoholic, a chain smoker or a junkie. Sure, it's a herculean effort of willpower to get rid of that deep-seated addiction, but that doesn't mean that it's physically impossible.
>any evidence that fat people can't help being fat
there are genes associated with obesity, so it is different for different people
and there different medical conditions, which could prevent from from movement, or make impossible for you to eat protein-dense food so you have to consume excess calories to gat enough proteins/nutrients
so yes, there are fatties out there who can't help it, or those which have to struggle really hard
but that's maybe 5% of them
>or make impossible for you to eat protein-dense food
there is no such condition. If you were allergic to proteins, you'd die, and you can't be allergic to protein in certain concentrations but not in others. You can have an intolerance for specific foods that happen to be high in protein (and even that is extremely rare for lean meat and eggs), but there's not a single person on earth who is allergic to all kinds of protein-dense food.
>there is no such condition.
Gout.
1. I did not mention allergies at all, learn to read ffs
2. Allergies is the immune reaction for proteins first and foremost.
3. There are Alpha-gal syndrome, there are allergies for chicken protein, etc. etc.
4. Now you 3 times wrong, how could you even manage this with single post?
Yes —it is biology and this has been confirmed.
>it's all willpower
Great. What do you think willpower is? It's biological, a product of neurons and hormones. Neuronal dysfunction or hormonal imbalance can dramatically impact behavior. If you believe willpower is NOT biological, what is it? The will of God acting through the body?
>it's just CICO bro
Telling an overweight person to eat fewer calories than they consume is like telling a freezing person to keep their body temperature above 90 degrees to avoid dying. It's factually true but not functionally helpful. Overweight people need to vastly reorient their lives in order to lose weight and CICO alone won't help them do that.
>but IST says it's easy
IST is primarily composed of young, childless men who are either students, or working relatively undemanding office jobs. (somebody will reply to this saying THATS NOT ME BRO —as though a single data point disproves a trend). Losers have tons of free time, no social pressure, can easily set up their lonely bachelor meals/schedule to optimize weight loss. Your average normie with a real job, kids, mortgage payments etc. is going to have a much harder time
>you're wrong bro
No, I'm not. What I am saying is backed up by clinical data and insurmountably true. Do not argue with me, you can't effectively rebut any of these points. I will win.
you're wrong bro
The cogito-argument by René Descartes and the spirit-body-problem based on it show us that consciousness is something that exceeds the bounds of logic itself and that it is not a mere biological function. Fundamentally, assuming that a human brain is nothing but an input/output-machine, there would be no thing in between that actually feels, but rather just a stream of input data that is transformed into output data via neural networks - if I hit you, you wouldn't actually feel pain, but instead, your neurons would simply transform the input data (the signal by your nerves) into the appropriate reaction (screaming, complaining, maybe hitting me back). But I know that I actually experience a feeling when I get hit, I know that I actually see, hear, feel etc., therefore there must be more to consciousness than simple biology. This kind of inner experience is called "qualia".
Will is simply the flip side of consciousness. As much as you have a consciousness that is independent of your physical body, you have a will that is independent of your physical body. Free will exists - and if it doesn't, I'm forced by predetermination to call you a massive homosexual right now.
>Free will exists - and if it doesn't, I'm forced by predetermination to call you a massive homosexual right now.
heh
Ohnono midwit internet science bros...
Werner Heisenberg (the scientist who discovered quantum physics) once put it beautifully: "The first gulp from the glass of science makes you an atheist; but at its bottom, God is waiting."
Wherever I am, I must also raep
Holy fricking shit anon, bravo.
Genetic determinist homosexuals blown the frick out
The thing about free will is that it honestly doesn't matter whether or not it does exist. The capacity for me to have done otherwise in any given situation is purely theoretical, because we cannot return to the past. Whether or not I did what I did because I wanted to, or because I'm a meat-robot acting out purely deterministic functions, or some hybrid of the two (since it's empirically obvious that affecting the meat can cause a change in the mind), is irrelevant because we all act as though we were people.
Our philosophy, our morality, our law, all presupposes that we are people with agency. If we aren't, if we don't have free will, what practical effect does that have on the world? Do we get rid of all our institutions? We don't, because people who believe they don't have free will don't; people with free will act as though they have free will. Meat robots also act as though they have free will.
>Your average normie with a real job, kids, mortgage payments etc. is going to have a much harder time
The average normies isn't morbidly obese. Truly fat people ARE almost always losers with a lot of free time - far more so than the average IST user. They eat exactly because they need to compensate for their shitty lives. You rarely see people who lead highly successful lives being obese. They might be somewhat overweight, yes, but very few of them are obese, let alone morbidly so. The rate of obesity among the unemployed is higher than among those who work a 40 hour week. There is a negative correlation between social success and BMI as well.
So that argument might work for somewhat chubby normies. But those aren't the fat people we're talking about.
I don't know how true that is, I have a social life, have always worked full time since I was 20 I just kept eating high calorie meals and chugging coca cola.The only reason I ever lost weight was because an SSRI made me want to vomit everytime I looked at food so I barely ate at all, but even then I was still chugging coca cola. Then one day I checked the scale, realised I lost a shit ton of weight, went to the doctors to make sure something wasn't wrong and took advantage of it. Yeah, I'm not fat anymore and made all the necessary adjustments but I doubt the average fat ass is sitting around with countless hours of free time. I had a physicallly demanding job while being 5'7 275 lbs, I was averaging 40k steps a day but because of that I was always so fricking hungry that I would just eat a ton before going to bed or on my breaks.
>The average normies isn't morbidly obese.
The average American woman has a BMI of 29,6. So borderline obese.
>Telling an overweight person to eat fewer calories than they consume is like telling a freezing person to keep their body temperature above 90 degrees to avoid dying.
<Anon, put on a fricking sweater. You're freezing. Here, you can have mine. I will do jumping jacks to keep myself warm instead.
>I put on a sweater once but it was itchy so I took it off
<Yes, I know it can be itchy but you get used to it. And it sure as frick having your thumbs chopped off. So just put it on.
>but it's itchy
Calling discipline and willpower biological factors might be technically correct, but practically is just utter cope. It's an excuse to pull the biology card on almost anything. Why did you fail your exams? Biology. Why are you still living with your parents at 30? Biology. Why did you eat that entire cheesecake? Biology. Ted Bundy was a great guy, it was just biology.
Why am I better than those people? Biology. Why will I always do better in life? Biology. Why am I able to frick hot girls while others have to frick fatties? Biology.
But that is all true, anon.
Your "decision" to eat the cheesecake is determined by an algorithm in your brain. It's biological in nature, but ultimately it is a product of math - whether certain neuronal pathways will be triggered, which is related to levels of neurotransmitters and hormones. It could all be modeled by a sufficiently complex computer system.
Furthermore, I could work backwards in time to map each individual atom involved, going all the way back to the Big Bang if needed.
What you perceive as "free will" is nothing more than the continuation of a lengthy chemical reaction that was set into motion 12 billion years ago and will continue until the end of time. Your brain backfills "intent" and "willpower" into it to make sense of what your body does, but in reality your biology calls all the shots, and you are a mere observer.
Thanks for playing.
>What you perceive as "free will" is nothing more than the continuation of a lengthy chemical reaction that was set into motion 12 billion years ago and will continue until the end of time.
Materialists are so tiring.
The fact that I’m not smoking crack right this second is PROOF that you’re wrong and that you’re a loser with a loser mentality. Just because something is hard doesn’t mean it’s impossible.
Do you know how fricking good crack cocaine is? Food can’t compare, it’s an otherworldly compulsion.
>Thanks for playing.
Go back, you condescending pseudo-intellectual frickwit
It's actually the other way around moron. Your brain is the receiver and the chemical reactions are the footprint of consciousness, it cannot logically be the reverse. "Free will" isn't independent of all other things but that's not how people use the term free will anyways. Blackpillers and their pseudo intellectual justifications for being self pitying nihilists..
i fricked ur sister lol
this dude LOVES rick and morty!!
This one is going in my cringe collection
this. laws of nature are absolute, the whole universe could just happen as it did. the fact that you posted this was already determined at the big bang, as was the fact that pointing it out butthurt so many.
>Thanks for playing.
more like thanks for watching
>Your "decision" to eat the cheesecake is determined by an algorithm in your brain
You have literally zero proof of this
Bro it's not that complicated.
Do you pick the life American companies have thought out for you?
Or do you choose your own path and live how you want?
It has nothing to do with discipline as it is easier to live this way, not harder.
Living healthy and exercising is not some military regime. Come on bro.
Quantum randomness btfo's redditoid determinism
>It could all be modeled by a sufficiently complex computer system.
Imitated, but not predicted. If you think that the human brain can be modelled by a sufficiently complex computer then you need to look into why we can't even accurately model a much simpler system, the weather, beyond a couple of days.
Sufficiently complex systems become intrinsically unpredictable. It is functionally impossible to know both the position and velocity of particles. This uncertainty principle makes complex systems inherently, irredeemably unknowable, except in the crudest, most simplified way.
burp morty nothing we do m-matters morty its all like chemicals morty
Its funny how dumb you are
So it's literally evolution? Inferior genetics = inferior outcomes = extinction
So obesity is just a type of being moronic.... I like it.
You're wrong on every point, but you're probably also a bait so I'm not biting
>fat homosexual
>"I will win"
You lost before you even began.
>needing time for weight loss
this has to be the biggest cope ive ever heard. are you moronic?
>Overweight person
>Person
Please try to make your bait less blisteringly on-the-nose lmao
As fatty its like we're drug addicts. People say its easy to lose weight and thats true but it isn't easy to kick an addiction. The only saving grace we have compared to fatties before is that a lot of people know how to cook healthy and delicious food. There's a supplement store down the street from my work that I always goto for lunch because they have a kitchen and will make meals for you. I've actually found a few other places like this. It's nice because I can get a delicious wrap thats more filling than a big mac for less than a big mac. But I live in city, I'm lucky to have access to all of this, this isn't something a lot of fatties can get. But if a fattie can find a meal prep service and just pay for a weeks worth of food it might give them a good idea of what they can and can't eat. I don't fricking know.
Also, it is really hard to track how many calories you're burning with exercise. Sometimes I just feel a little bit hungry but sometimes I feel like I can eat a horse and I'm pretty sure it's because I'm eating too little but I can't tell. A 500 kcal defecit isn't that bad but a 1000? More?
people know much more about bulking (thanksgiving, birthdays, bbq sunday, etc.) than cutting or fasting, which is ingrained into people as an illness rather than a cure. it's a skill issue and they got filtered, there's no reason to discuss something so obvious as the body's energy storage systems
>more complicated than CICO or is this redditor coping
Usually the extremely obese (35+ BMI) have a mental addiction to food which allows them to easily eat so much.
There are genetic conditions that can make losing weight naturally very difficult (type 1 diabetes, hormone imbalances, lymphedema) but these are rare. Even with a condition, you can still lose weight, it just might require more effort or medical treatment but CICO still applies.
Losing weight is simple, but it is not easy. There is no instant gratification, no quick solution, and the actions you must take are not glamorous. Most people lack discipline and fatties are no different. Because of this they will look for any excuse or explanation to explain their size rather than accept that they eat too much slop, don't exercise, and don't have the fortitude to change.
Everyone I've known with type one has been a normal, healthy weight, if not a bit underweight. One of my coworkers has been type one her whole life and is autistically good at managing her blood sugar/insulin/diet, it's impressive.
> Usually the extremely obese (35+ BMI) have a mental addiction to food which allows them to easily eat so much.
You can train stomach capacity, fatties eat constantly and their stomachs remain stretched. A normal person eating those portions would feel sick.
Visceral fat compresses the stomach, so most of the megafats are going to be grazing all day to get the calories needed to maintain their size
Every fat person will show you exactly how they got that way if you go shopping with them
Impulse control differs between individuals. It is CICO but people don't have free will if thats what you're asking. It makes me feel superior to them because I am able to put the effort into eating less. Its pathetic I know, but thats why we are here. To feel superior to fat people.
>obesity is a mental health issue
Wrong. It’s all related to hormones and some people have seriously fricked hormones that no matter what they do they’ll still be a fatty unless they take medication that hijacks their genetic functions.
I'll never understand Redditors
Being able to read and being able to understand what you read is completely different.
Here in shitzil we have college graduates who are like that, we call them "functionally illiterate"
>inb4 grammar errors on my post
holy shit hes moronic
I know a girl with Hashimotos and another with polycystic ovaries. They have crazy weight fluctuations but the one actually working out and taking care of what she eats is never chubby or overweight. That shit fricks up your hormones and im guessing CICO works differently for them but i wouldnt say its completely out of their control
There was a study recently that suggested fat people's brain chemistry is changed so they don't feel satiety as fast, or at all. And there were some implications that those changes were permanent, even after they lost weight, but from what I saw it seemed like the study wasn't long enough to actually prove that definitively.
That being said, its still not impossible for them to stop being fat. I lost 90 lbs and am keeping it off. The problem with most people who "diet" is they think its a finite thing.
You do the diet and then you stop when you hit your goal and you're good. Then they go back to their old habits and are surprised when they get fat again. Once you get the weight off, you may stop restricting, but you have to put in the effort to eat at maintenance for the rest of your life (counting calories, macros, etc).
That's me. I never feel full when I eat. People say potatoes are filling but honestly I could eat 2lbs of them in a sitting and want more.
That said there's a magic tool called 'scale' that let's me count my macros. I lost the weight and it sure as hell will stay off. It's a daily job but I refuse to be obese again.
>t. lost 60lbs 7 years ago
If fat people can't help being fat, how come there were no fat israelites liberated from the camps?
No seed oils or endocrine disrupters (is what they would probably say)
Well, if that's it then they know what they need to cut out of their diet.
>as a normal size person
>t. 5'1" 189lbs
>eat a ton of low-protein, high carb foods
>wtf why am I not getting satiated?
>it must be my brain chemistry, it’s biologically impossible for me to be skinny
>You can't make fun of X but you can still make fun of Y
There's a million of these stupid "give us gibs too" movements now. Autists, schizos, fats, they're all trying to get their share of the handouts
>can't help being fat
At most, they can't help it in the same way that addicts can't help but get their fix. CICO will help them lose weight the same way that not smoking will help smokers quit. But fatties are addicted to food and smokers are addicted to smoking it is hard for them I guess. Obesity is a mental thing and should probably be treated that way more
No there's no evidence, only excuses
its 100% hormone and dietary related, CICO is a total scam.
If you want proof, eat 2000 calories of sugar vs 2000 calories of seed oil and see what happens.
> eat 2000 calories of seed oil and see what happens
Violent diarrhea
fatties are victims of MKULTRA mind control, they're too mentally fricked and poisoned to stop eating. being able to spend time alone without food has been the litmus test for health since antiquity
Who gives a frick? Even if it's true and you're cursed by genetics that's just more reason to fight back. I will not fail because of something that isn't my fault.
Throw a fatty in a jail cell with a sink and a toilet, lock the door, and come back in 3 months to find them still alive but 100lbs lighter. The calorie system isn't perfect and lacks precision, but fatties can't fricking cheat thermodynamics.
The ONLY genetic/hormonal disorders I've heard of that affect that shit are those that make it harder to gain weight instead of lose it - like people with fricked up digestive systems that can't efficiently process foods or when their bodies refuse to create muscle or bodyfat no matter how much they eat. These are extremely rare conditions, like only a handful ever confirmed in modern history, and the poor woman in pic related Lizzie Velásquez is one of them. She has to eat tons of food throughout the day constantly just to not die and probably has massive shits.
Show me a fatass with a scientifically proven stomach that can pull more energy out of what he eats than other people, and I will say that he should eat less fricking food.
>she is required to eat many small meals and snacks throughout the day, averaging between 5,000 and 8,000 calories daily.
>400lb c**t in a fat scooter at walmart will complain about the walk though the parking lot as if she expected someone to carry her in
I think that CICO is true in the strictest sense, and the CICO + willpower approach is undoubtedly applicable to the majority of fatties who are disgustingly obese (as evident by the fact that they tend to easily and drastically lose a ton of weight by doing nothing more than cutting out the shit and eating less like a hog), but I do think things become more complicated (at least, for some people) when they begin to approach their "baseline" weight and struggle to lose the last ~10-30lbs (basically, skinnyfat/mildly overweight territory). People massively underestimate the extent to which fricked up hormonal signalling (namely, hunger signals) and poor sleep quality can have on the ability to lose/keep off weight at that point, and both are worse the fatter (and less muscular) you are. Sleep apnea (and related disorders), for example, are directly correlated to weight gain, and are made worse the fatter you are (and you can have disordered sleep issues just from having fricked up airways or neurological issues). Even though CICO is still technically true, you're going to have way less energy for physical activity, an increased appetite, and a higher proportion of visceral fat. Same with excess estrogen/low test.
> I feel like you can't make fun of mentally handicapped people, other sexual orientations, other races, etc.
What the frick is this moronic Black person troony even talking about
"can't make fun of other sexual orientations, other races, etc"
don't worry i make fun of all of them as well as fat people, all are funny.
>so many people think it's just "put down the fork fatty" and that is just not the case
>goes on to cope by saying they use food as a coping mechanism from mental health issues and former trauma
lots of words to cope and say to everyone that you're a mental midget with no self control. put the fork down fatty
People who are fat are just overeating and don't realize it. Often they're also extremely lazy and lack discipline.
Does it really matter? Shit self-control or shit genetics. Either way, no one is obligated to date them.
I've been fat, skinny, muscular, and inbetween. Can't speak for the fatties who NEET permanently, but the reason I got fat when I did was work/time pressure.
I was pulling 12+ hour workdays 6 or 7 days of the week, normal job + extra editing work at home, sleeping 4-5 hours a night. Trying to fit all of that in with social activities resulted in me not having much spare time, so I always put off gym/exercise because I could be using the time for work/sleep instead. Feeling the stress of deadlines plus feeling fricked because of no sleep = seeking out dopamine hits from food.
Only way I felt better was to break the cycle and lose some of the extra work. Once I started exercising again + sleeping better, the need for the dopamine hits disappeared completely.
I reckon there's a whole lot of fatties out there who know what they should be doing, but due to their work/personal life stresses just reach for that dopamine hit from their drug of choice instead of addressing the root cause of their issues. There's no excuse for that behaviour, but that's the thought process behind it.
>I've been fat, skinny, muscular, and inbetween. Can't speak for the fatties who NEET permanently, but the reason I got fat when I did was work/time pressure.
Cope. You can still count kcal and cook healthy if you are working 12 hours a day.
There is nobody out there who can't benefit and lose fat by eating better foods and eating less/drinking calorie-free beverages. Anyone who says that it's more complicated and CICO doesn't work is a complete fat frick copegay with no self-control.
>post stupid shit
>complain you get insulted
Lmao
I don't even think about fats though, that's his problem here. I never consider them. I guess that must be what he's talking about though since fat women just don't register for me at all, they're not people to so I ignore them.
>you vill frick zee fat chicks
If they have:
>Metabolic syndrome
>Sleep apnea
>Some hormonal issue
>Some other very specific medical issue
Then it is valid, and even then, most doctors would still recommend them to atleast Jog for like 30 minutes after getting their meds/CPAP. Otherwise they risk a lot of other complications.
>normal sized
>addicted to food
This thing is the size of a fridge
Obesity rates used to be 1-2% and are still this low in some East Asian countries. There is your answer.
CICO is bullshit, but fat people are moronic so they're still wrong no matter what.
not all of them are moronic, there are fat professors, engineers, programmers, entrepreneurs, etc.
>Yikes
>Joker meme
>reddit spacing
Ignored
>it’s true because I said it’s true
You haven’t presented an axiom, only a premise and circular logic. How do you explain coming up with new ideas?
It is slightly more complicated than CICO for SOME people. Think about it this way, if you blast steroids it doesnt matter what you eat, its mostly turned into muscle. Fatties work much the same way in that their hormones are all fricked up from years of abusing food, so instead of building muscle theyre building fat. It takes a lot of time and dedication for a fat to lose weight, just like it takes a lot of time and dedication for a skinny to get buff.
This is entirely false and complete fattie cope.
Nice argument you have there. Too bad youre completely fricking moronic and have never taken a course in nutrition or anatomy and physiology. Shut the frick up wristlet.
Hormone imbalance accounts for at best <3% of someone's metabolic swing you fat frick
Youll notice I said slightly more complicated and SOME people. Youre literally arguing semantics that arent present in my post. Just shut the frick up, youre moronic.
Nice double digit IQ fattie
Now youre just trolling. Get out of my thread with your pseudoscience, skelly.
For virtually every living human being losing weight is as simple as eating less. Anything else is cope.
Thats not the point I was making. I already told you what I said, and you cant stop making it about something its not. Are you fricking bipolar?
>if you blast steroids it doesnt matter what you eat, its mostly turned into muscle
that is utter nonsense. The only nutrient that can physically be turned into muscle mass is protein. If you ate zero protein, you could blast multiple grams of tren per week and still not gain a single ounce of muscle mass.
And the rest of your post is complete bullshit as well. There's not a single shred of evidence backing that up.
You literally have no idea how muscle is built, dumbass. All you broscience morons need to go back to school. You have to be 18 to post here.
>What I'm saying is LOGICALLY true.
But it's not epistemologically true.
>In other words, unless you can post an MRI scan that clearly labels the "free will" section of the brain... you're out of luck, bub
This is like asking someone to take apart a car engine and pointing to the single part that "Makes the car move"
While I agree that free will is difficult to defend, the "We're just an assortment of binary neurons firing and could have our decisions mapped out" has to be the weakest one.
Even though this claim has the most to prove on the "No free will" side, for some reason the responsibility of proving free will is on the "Free will" side.
I would argue that if we were so easy to have our decisions mapped out, then Psychology would now be the hardest of sciences, but it remains the softest while still struggling to find answered asked decades ago.
The reality is that the brain organ is a complex network of binary firing neurons that culminate into essentially an algorithm to determine what actions to take in response to outside stimuli. This would confirm your claim, but unless you can look into the future to determine what action would take place, then that hardly leaves out the possibility that the response is based on a percentage model determined by multiple different factors seen or unseen.
>If I had a perfect simulation of your brain, I could predict every single decision or thought you would ever have in response to any given stimuli.
Cool story. Keep us all posted on science's progress and let us know when one of these simulations actually gets made and the problem of consciousness is actually solved, instead of just being toyed with in abstract thought experiments.
The "great" free will debate is honestly just a bunch of puerile semantic bickering. Midwits DEBOONK the concept of free will by positing a nonsensical strawman notion of pure and unfettered, unbounded, and uninformed choice floating in some kind of vacuum away from all influence and then point out the perfectly obvious fact that *their own* dumbass idea of Free Will isn't real. Good job, sport! Way to build it up and knock it down!
Are you suggesting a sufficiently advanced computer couldn't replicate the human brain? Every single element of the human brain is a physical particle and thus can be modeled. A computer can model a single atom; a more complex computer can model two atoms, thus a fantastically complex computer CAN model the human brain. That's not a thought experiment, that is just logic.
Fine — but neurons and neuronal networks can still be defined mathematically, and thus modeled. The fact that nobody's done it yet doesn't mean it is impossible. Nobody's landed on Mars, but that doesn't mean a Mars landing is impossible or beyond the laws of physics to explain.
I have already told you that you are wasting your time as the non-existence of free will is proven beyond a doubt. You don't have to keep arguing with me.
not that anon, but
>Are you suggesting a sufficiently advanced computer couldn't replicate the human brain?
yes.
>Every single element of the human brain is a physical particle
There's no such thing as a "physical particle"
>and thus can be modeled.
we don't even have the capability to simulate a single molecule, let alone a brain
>A computer can model a single atom; a more complex computer can model two atoms, thus a fantastically complex computer CAN model the human brain.
You're assuming an infinite capability to compute, which doesn't yet exist and may also be theoretically impossible depending on the level of accuracy/fidelity you want to achieve. With quantum computing, maybe. But with quantum computing, nothing is binary. Everything exists as some degree of true and not true. With classical computing, we are reaching the literal limits of what is capable, as we are running into issues of fidelity with making technology so small that particles begin blinking in and out of existence, thus fricking your computer up.
>That's not a thought experiment, that is just logic.
assuming you are capable of doing such a thing is a thought experiment. Your flawed logic makes its basis on the assumption of raw direct causality, which in itself has been disproven as a model of viewing the universe. You can't build a causal recreation of something that in itself does not follow a causal logic. The fact that you are so certain that the human brain/consciousness and by extension, the universe, is a direct causal system is fricking laughable and tells me that you know literally nothing about quantum mechanics, which would make this difficult to continue talking with you about, since you have no idea why you're wrong or even what it would mean for any argument that you bring up. Must feel good to be in middle school and think you're smarter than everyone because you took a basic physics class and just learned about atoms
>There's no such thing as a "physical particle"
Don't quibble over semantics. You know what I meant.
>we don't even have the capability to simulate a single molecule, let alone a brain
Please stop using practical considerations about computers today against a theoretical argument about the upper limit of future computing.
>You're assuming an infinite capability to compute
No, I am not. I am assuming a more advanced capability to computer, but is no more infinite than the human brain itself (which is discrete).
>Must feel good to be in middle school and think you're smarter than everyone because you took a basic physics class and just learned about atoms
If you can't debate without resorting to unfounded personal attacks, I'm not interested in discussing this further with you.
The world is non-deterministic
Therefore you can't simulate it
Even if you had a computer sophisticated enough to "accurately" simulate a particle or several
It can't be done
Interesting that you completely ignored the parts about the universe being non-causal/not locally real
>A computer can model a single atom; a more complex computer can model two atoms, thus a fantastically complex computer CAN model the human brain. That's not a thought experiment, that is just logic.
lmao we can't even model a few dozen neurons inside a lobster stomach
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-body_problem
We can BARELY model three astronomical bodies when we know their starting positions and velocities. The human brain would be a 15 quintillion body problem if you were trying to model every atom and particle and quantum electron state.
How do you model trillions and trillions of electrons which aren't even discrete particles, but rather probablistic wave functions?
Atoms aren't real nor physical. Your hypotheticals are built on a house of cards, the preceding assumptions of your argument is completely baseless yet you stack up the cards and then think the hypothetical you came up has any meaning or basis in reality. You have not proved that these interactions in the brain are causal in anyway, that they can create an experience and are the cause of every decision you make, nor that these particles even exist or are physical, then you just assume that there's a theoretical computer that runs off these baseless models that could predict your every action. The funniest thing is that these particles cannot even be observed, science threw out metaphysics and then when reality broke down on the deepest level, they needed to make sense of it through...metaphysics, so they built completely conceptual models and assumed particles were physical, or that there's even particles. In the end it was all metaphysics, an assumption that everything is physical and can be quantized(le math works out!) is s metaphysical assumption, even if it doesn't follow logic or explain anything.
Tldr; You need to prove several things, that these physical interactions are causal in experience, that these particles are physical or even a valid model.
Based real science understander. Whatre your thoughts on viruses?
I don't know much but it sounds like it's cut from the same cloth as atomism and materialism, in other words, fake and gay nonsense propagated from pharma to sell cures. All you need to do to deduce whether something is true or false is think whom does it benefit, what kind of mercantile and materialistic people's benefits from propagating materialism, atomism, and germ theory?
My dad would say something like, "So everything that benefits someone is a lie?" rhetorically to make a non-argument and not provide an actual rebuttal.
You could differentiate what "benefits" someone in the temporal sense, vs the transcendent sense. What benefits you in the temporal sense is not actually truly beneficial at all, so those that chase the temporal turn untruth into truth, or rather, "their truth", not objective truth. The most ironic thing about this relative truth is their claim of relativity being objective, hence what I mean by turning the untruth into "truth', when logically, objectiveness, truth, is that which is self-sufficient (ie transcendent), not temporal. With that said, who then pushes these sorts of ideas? Who glorifies the temporal and makes that "their truth"? Who kvetches when you go against this hogwash?
I’m confused, are you saying viruses aren’t real? How do you explain people getting sick? How do you explain the fact that polio and smallpox have been eradicated through vaccinations? How do you explain biological weapons?
That’s a big claim and you got some ‘splainin to do
Who told you that vaccines eradicated any disease? The people who made the vaccines did. As for people getting sick, why does there need to be some tiny hypothetical single celled organism that did it? People get sick all the time for many reasons, chief of which is your environment. If your water has toxins in it (which every water source in america does) you will eventually get sick from drinking it. Youll go through periods where your body will detox from the substance, and thats the illness that doctors call a virus. Theres nothing you can do when you have a supposed "virus". No pill will make you better, your body has to fight it naturally. How convenient, because thats exactly whats happening when your body detoxes from environmental toxins. The symptoms match up perfectly. Viruses as an idea were made up for profit. No virus has EVER been isolated, no matter what they tell you. Research the studies yourself, what they claim as isolation is not in any way isolation.
Polio and smallpox no longer exist. Smallpox only pops up from time to time in unvaccinated communities of people.
Explain chicken pox and shingles or herpes. Chicken pox is highly contagious and you can only get it once but it can re emerge as shingles. Explain Ebola.
Which specific toxins cause which specific maladies? You’re talking like a schizo bro
I work with viral derived T7 RNA polymerase everyday
Here’s a photograph of the Ebola virus lol
Shit.
Shills on demand.
Any talk of vaxes and these paid shills come out of the woodwork with their reddit tier talking points about polio.
It's comforting to know their veins are turning into calamari and they'll be dead soon. Enjoy dying you stupid vaxheads 🙂
Don't do drugs, kids
Interesting anon. Do you have any recommended further reading on this subject? I want to know more.
it’s an ai post
What makes you say that?
>Atoms aren't real nor physical.
Einstein showed that atoms are real in 1905 using a statistical argument. The periodic table of elements shows that they even have a regular structure.
Hormones dictate calories out as well as the type of weight that you lose. Weight loss is not the goal. Fat loss is the goal. Also, no point in using a daily caloric restriction while eating if your Hormones are completely fricked and you frick your whole life up in the process.
LOSING FAT (NOT WEIGHT) is something that is far more complicated than people that push this CICO method of weight loss can comprehend or even care to look into. Anyone that has any real level of interest in this topic will understand that Hormonal balance matters far more than a calorie deficit or surplus.
The secret to LOSING FAT (NOT WEIGHT) is simply by eating nothing. Fasting is 100% the best fat loss method bar none. Fasting also has the greatest muscle retention while losing weight. Almost all weight lost during a fast is fat. Literally 0% is skeletal muscle mass, at least up to 10 days fasting as far as we know for certain. The reason this happens with fasting is because of its unique hormonal environment that gives you the perfect ability to lose fat without losing muscle and without feeling like total shit or wrecking your metabolism.
Ayo hold up so you bee sayin that my body be actin different if I eat less or someting? Lemme axe u dis if I just eat less cheeseburgers than my body need do I loose weight?
>Ayo hold up so you bee sayin that my body be actin different if I eat less or someting?
yes
>Lemme axe u dis if I just eat less cheeseburgers than my body need do I loose weight?
yes you dumb Black person. you'll lose weight, but weight loss is not the goal. learn to read you moron
buchinger Wilhelmi did the fasting study I was referring to. There was 0% loss in SKELETAL MUSCLE MASS. Decreases in lean mass were from shrinking internal organs and from smooth muscle breakdown (think intestines) that reexpand after refeeding.
>catabolism
that's a vague and meaningless term. You're constantly building (anabolism) and breaking down (catabolism) things.
>which is not only is a means of creating energy
you need energy so you break down fat and other useless cells, not skeletal muscle
>but also reducing your bodies demand for energy going forward
Metabolism is increased by as much as 14% after 10 days of fasting
>this is prioritised over breaking down lipids for energy
lipids are literally energy stores that are designed to be broken down in time of not having food. What you don't get from your fat stores you get from breaking down other cells, NOT SKELETAL MUSCLE. Thus has already been proven. This is a fact.
Can't ever count on you Black folk knowing anything.
>buchinger Wilhelmi did the fasting study I was referring to.
post the study then
Google it Black person. I'm not your research monkey/bot. I'm just pointing people in the right direction
Ah, so the study doesn't exist. Cool.
stay obese you undisciplined c**t
I'm stronger and leaner than you. And I do it without starving myself.
>Literally 0% is skeletal muscle mass, at least up to 10 days fasting as far as we know for certain.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37377031/
> Results reveal that prolonged fasting for 5-20 days produces potent increases in circulating ketones, and mild to moderate weight loss of 2-10%. Approximately two-thirds of the weight lost is lean mass, and one-third is fat mass. The excessive lean mass loss suggests that prolonged fasting may increase the breakdown of muscle proteins, which is a concern.
> Fasting is 100% the best fat loss method bar none. Fasting also has the greatest muscle retention while losing weight. Almost all weight lost during a fast is fat. Literally 0% is skeletal muscle mass, at least up to 10 days fasting as far as we know for certain
When you fast longer than a few days your body goes into catabolism which is not only is a means of creating energy but also reducing your bodies demand for energy going forward, this is prioritised over breaking down lipids for energy you spectacularly dense motherfricker, it's time to stop posting.
Obesity is hormonally caused. Why do you think that the BIOLOGICAL mother of the fat kid is always fat?.
Doesn't matter if the father drops the whale for a thin yoga instructor to raise the lil fattie.
Yeah, I know, /fit will never acknowledge this because they love to autistically shit on others like niggs.
my dad is gigafat and I was thin as frick for my entire life
>Parent eats like a fat frick
>Feeds their kid like a fat frick
Hmmm
Nobody disputes CICO for weight loss, whether it's the most efficient way to go for targeted fat loss is another matter however.
I feel sorry for the obese because they have a very unhealthy relationship with food as goyslop has literally rewired their brains through constant spiking of dopamine to the point where they're mentally addicted to the taste of refined carbs, sugars and flavourings. However, my sympathy only goes so far and rather than wallowing in pity about how addicted to Ben & Jerry's they are, a lot of fatties will then refuse to do something about it like their addiction to food is a sick note from their parents in gym class or something
look at this coward not answering to the one response that completely btfo his argument via simple logic, lmao.
>Your actions are determined by chemicals that are fundamentally binary in nature (a neuron fires or it doesn't)
lmao neurons aren't binary bro. They can fire a little bit, or an awful lot, depending on the levels of various neurotransmitters released by the other neurons around them in the network. They are highly analogue.
>A neuron is not like a binary switch that can be turned on or off, forming a wiring diagram. Instead, neurons respond in an analogue way, changing their activity in response to changes in stimulation. The nervous system alters its working by changes in the patterns of activation in networks of cells composed of large numbers of units; it is these networks that channel, shift and shunt activity. Unlike any device we have yet envisaged, the nodes of these networks are not stable points like transistors or valves, but sets of neurons – hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands strong – that can respond consistently as a network over time, even if the component cells show inconsistent behaviour.
>Understanding even the simplest of such networks is currently beyond our grasp. Eve Marder, a neuroscientist at Brandeis University, has spent much of her career trying to understand how a few dozen neurons in the lobster’s stomach produce a rhythmic grinding. Despite vast amounts of effort and ingenuity, we still cannot predict the effect of changing one component in this tiny network that is not even a simple brain.
Overeating in general is a weak addiction and you get plenty of time to counteract.
Comparing that to mentally handicapped or sexual orientations is seriously fricked up.
Food addicts are the weakest of the weak.
Fat people hate is justified.
Except we don't live in a deterministic universe. Nothing as we experience it is locally real and is only made real at the point of witnessing it
So this moronic homosexual is incapable of living a balanced healthy lifestyle. It's either drugs, alcohol or food.
Dysgenic moron.
>Fat people are fat because they are addicts
He got that right
I cut weight all the time they literally have zero willpower and discipline. also their gut health is so fricked for obvious reasons but they are too moronic to even fix that. I hate fat people so much its unreal. Not a single one of those useless fricks should be allowed to vote.
Sitting all day no matter how little u eat will cause fat retention and buildup, with that said the more junk/fast food u consooom the more likely u won't be able to lose weight, I've been more or less OMAD in 2023 also switched from office job to a trade and lost 50 lbs since December 2022 with no effort to count calories but I've also been working out consistently, obesity is not genetic it's a life style
It's more complicated by CICO, CICO work but you have to be smart about it, you must do CICO while also making sure you get as much protein and micronutrients while eating few calories. You also need to chose food that is the least addictive possible, or you're way more likely to fail your diet
You can't trust the fats to truthfully document everything they eat or their claims of exercise.
You would have to film them 24/7 for a month to see their every bite and movement.
Under that scrutiny they would lose weight.
>You can't trust the fats to truthfully document everything they eat or their claims of exercise.
>You would have to film them 24/7 for a month to see their every bite and movement.
>Under that scrutiny they would lose weight.
It’s pure unadulterated cope
After 9/11 they interviewed the people who got out trying to figure out why so many didn't, and they were told that all the fat people were slowing everyone's descent down the stairs. Imagine losing your mother or father to such a horrible death because some fat ass was blocking them from leaving.
Pastanigg3r here from the boot country.
I can't understand the american ''food addiction'' pleas explain me. The whole ''supersize portions'', the ''goyslop craving'' n sheet.
Why?
Why just don't enjoy your sunday meals or your friday post work beer/wine ?
This is literally food addiction not so different from cocaine or meth.
Do americans have a general lack of dopamine problem? General unsatisfaction? I can't understand
298 pushups for posting about r*ddit. NOW!
Also stupid j*nnies have someone banned for life for something that's has long since passed yet BBC posters don't get any lifetime bans for their obnoxious homosexualry. Frick em.
As somebody that used to weigh 280 and is now at 170:
I hate fat people
simple as
still fat, but down 50lbs. i started eating healthier and exercising and i started shedding weight like crazy. 95% of people are like this.
very, very few people actually can’t lose weight because of medical conditions. the rest is cope that we hear and pretend our bodies aren’t our fault.
When cutting, have you ever had a day when keeping the deficit required no effort at all? Have you ever had days where it was really difficult? For some people your hardest day of cutting is the equivalent to their easiest day of cutting. The majority are just abusing food for fun, but some people do struggle.
He's right. No one with a healthy mind would ever become fat
However some fatties just don't really understand how calories work. They'll eat little on lunch and dinner but will eat a lot of snacks(especially sugary snacks) thinking it'll not fatten them up
>you lived long enough to see fit accept HAES
Grim
where you homosexual
I think there might be something to it. I would have to force feed myself and be very uncomfortable to get as fat as some of these people.
It's obviously metabolism that is the genes part.
Just look at how the auschwitz-tier skinny people who can eat 6k calories a day and not gain weight.
It's CICO but it's still an addiction.
The issue with food addiction is that you cannot
cut it off. Drug addicts don't need drugs to survive,they might think they do but you do actually need food to eat.
Moderation then turns into a motherfricker when what I can imagine.
There can be challenges fatties have to deal with
>bigger stomachs
>unhealthy habits & difficulty with breaking them
>for teenagers: fatty parents not buying them healthier foods
But ultimately those are just things that are getting in the way of eating less/better foods. Nobody's immune to CICO
CICO is the end all be all, but some people have so little muscle mass and are short in stature plus low bone density and insulin sensitivity plus they get tired very easily and I just described the average old obese woman who would have to go on a 1500 calorle diet (even with 10000 steps a day counted in) to start losing weight when she starts out her weight loss journey for easily 5 months or more and by the end she would most likely go even lower with the calories down to 1200. Obviously most aren't ready for that when they have been eating the equivalent of a average males daily calories which in our modern times is the easiest thing to do. So yeah it is harder for some even when the baseline remains the same, and what do you know old obese women are mostly those who feel fricked over by their genetics, I wonder why...
The talk about "muh hormones" isn't actually all that incorrect.
What gets left out of that talk though is that its not something imbued from birth. Fat people weren't born with genes that destined them to fricked up hormones. Their hormones got fricked up *because* they got fat. And then once those hormones are fricked up, its very hard to unfrick them and lose weight.
If you've been eating twice as many calories as you should your entire life, your body gets used to burning half the incoming calories and storing the other half. If you then reduce your calorie intake to where its "supposed" to be, your body still operates on the idea that it burns half and stores half. Even though the amount of calories coming in is still sufficient to run the body, the body acts like its only getting half of what it needs, and triggers hunger impulses. And that impulse is probably the single most deeply imbued impulse in biology. Every organism needs to take in energy, the drive to find and consume energy has been a part of life since single celled organism. The "you need to eat" impulse hits the brain almost the same way the "you need to breathe" impulse does. And a lifetime of overeating will frick up how the body triggers that impulse. Yeah, if you lock a fat person in a room and only let them have 2,000 calories a day, they'll lose weight. Thermodynamics don't care. But getting a fat person to only eat 2,000 calories a day on their own in a society where high calorie foods are everywhere is like trying to get someone to quit heroin while surrounded by ready to go syringes full of heroin.
The important thing here is to stop it when people are young. Don't let them get fat and frick up their hormones in the first place. Childhood obesity should be considered child abuse.
you’re not wrong but we can tell adults to think more than 5 minutes into the future when it’s regarding their long term health