Is veganism really worth it?

>Weighs about 300lb (give or take)
>Struggles with weighs that are unremarkable for his size, and is always gassed out sweat like he left a sauna in the end indicating shit stamina (yet he thinks he can fight)
>Bones so bittle that he injures himself if his form isn't perfect

More like vegan makes no Gains.

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    What's that, 160kg?
    How many reps did he do with that?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      He has gotten injured multiple times with weights lighter than that btw

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      20x6 + 20 = 140

      Unless those are vegan pl8s (15 each but they look like 20).

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    All meme diets are gay. Vegansgays, carnigays, and ketolards are all moronic no gainsers who will perpetually remain fatties or dyels.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Found the spiritually israelited manlet. Enjoy the abyss of death that is not having a soul within 10 years.

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    This guy lives in a personal hell of his own creation and I don't feel a single iota of pity for him. If you ever feel bad about your life, just think about Richard and you should feel some comfort.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      qrd? i know he used to be a pretty popular youtuber but i don't know the whole story

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >qrd
        he became a popular youtuber strictly off riding on the backs of more famous youtubers and talking shit about them because they ate meat. He also had a passionate speech about wanting to stomp babies and making fun of people (including children) for having cancer.
        It got so bad with the death threats that youtube had actually banned him at one point. He had to simper and slurp their cum before he was allowed back.
        Also, like the hypocrite that he is, he adopted a fricking wolfdog and tried to put it on a vegan diet. Now he has a cat and some gay pomerainian living in his shithole apartment fed vegan food.

        He also has stated he wants all predatory animals to be killed. He is literally a psychotic moron and anyone who thinks he has done anything positive for the vegan movement deserves just as much ridicule as he does.
        This video sums him up.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    weight a minute. why is he wearing a belt for a lmao3pl8 diddylift?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      He has gotten injured multiple times with weights lighter than that btw

      A vegan diet is deficient in fat soluble "witamins" and quality protein. I'm not advocating to go high fat because I think it's moronic and will lower your performance, but you should get a minimum amount of fat and protein from high quality food such as liver and lean beef.

      All meme diets are gay. Vegansgays, carnigays, and ketolards are all moronic no gainsers who will perpetually remain fatties or dyels.

      He's extremely prone to injury. He actually had insane genetics and could've gone pro in hockey, but veganism stopped him from making any gains.

      He constantly gets new injuries and tears, hence why his physique has just gotten worse throughout the years and he's become fat.

      Honest question about veganism - whats the upside?

      I mean, if youre doing it to save animals, fine. Thats gay, whatever, but I cant and wont argue that with you - veganism means you didnt kill at least one more animal. Okay.

      But from a health perspective, what health benefit is there to avoiding lean meat and several eggs per week? What exactly is the "toxin" that gets avoided?

      Even vegans have to admit that the nutritional profile of meat and eggs is unmatched by any plant source for many, many of the vital nutrietns we need. They just allega that vegan sources are "good enough."

      But what nutritional benefit is there to never eating 5 ounces of lean sirloin, chicken breast or baked fish at dinner?

      None except a small "spiritual" benefit.

      The only time humans have ever been vegan in history was when humans weren't "humans".

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Vegetarianism is 10x better than veganism.
        Eating meat once a week is 10x better than vegetarianism.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >He actually had insane genetics and could've gone pro in hockey, but veganism stopped him from making any gains.

        He wasn't vegan when he was playing hockey. Why are you making this shit up. Why are you so afraid of vegans?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >He wasn't vegan when he was playing hockey
          Exactly what I was saying? Lol

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >get chronic injuries while playing hockey
            >wasn't vegan when playing hockey
            >this is veganisms fault

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Oh, that's fair. I guess I mixed it up, he just gets constant injuries now, and had a few terrible injuries in hockey.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >He actually had insane genetics and could've gone pro in hockey, but veganism stopped him from making any gains.

              He wasn't vegan when he was playing hockey. Why are you making this shit up. Why are you so afraid of vegans?

              >I mean, if youre doing it to save animals, fine
              thats it dude. don't see what's gay about standing up for the voiceless.

              >even vegans have to admit that the nutritional profile of meat and eggs is unmatched by any plant source for many, many of the vital nutrietns we need
              Like b12? It's added to most vegan foods and even then you could just take a multi which is cheaper and easier than eating meat.

              Your grandchildren will have indian-tier genetics.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Lifting is supposed to help with shit like that moron. No one is afraid of vegans of all people.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Clarence has a pretty low injury rate in his career and puts up insane numbers. Sure he's on roids, but that would be even worse for his joints if veganism was so bad. Injury susceptibility is mostly genetic.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    A vegan diet is deficient in fat soluble "witamins" and quality protein. I'm not advocating to go high fat because I think it's moronic and will lower your performance, but you should get a minimum amount of fat and protein from high quality food such as liver and lean beef.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >I'm not advocating to go high fat because I think it's moronic and will lower your performance, but you should get a minimum amount of fat and protein from high quality food such as liver and lean beef.
      Yeah, your takes are moronic. Not really shocking.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Seems pretty strong to me.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      his exertion noises are too gay

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >home is a mess
      >probably WFM
      >gym from home in a cluttered space
      >why am I depressed? must be a chemical imbalance.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >takes medication for depression instead of eating beef liver once a week and some bivalves here and there

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Lol I hit more than that at 40 and without steroids lol

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Half ROM
      I wonder if he could even do 2 plates with proper form.

  7. 1 month ago
    /fit/: discord.gg/hUbs9TUr

    I miss his schizo alien rants

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Honest question about veganism - whats the upside?

    I mean, if youre doing it to save animals, fine. Thats gay, whatever, but I cant and wont argue that with you - veganism means you didnt kill at least one more animal. Okay.

    But from a health perspective, what health benefit is there to avoiding lean meat and several eggs per week? What exactly is the "toxin" that gets avoided?

    Even vegans have to admit that the nutritional profile of meat and eggs is unmatched by any plant source for many, many of the vital nutrietns we need. They just allega that vegan sources are "good enough."

    But what nutritional benefit is there to never eating 5 ounces of lean sirloin, chicken breast or baked fish at dinner?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >I mean, if youre doing it to save animals, fine
      thats it dude. don't see what's gay about standing up for the voiceless.

      >even vegans have to admit that the nutritional profile of meat and eggs is unmatched by any plant source for many, many of the vital nutrietns we need
      Like b12? It's added to most vegan foods and even then you could just take a multi which is cheaper and easier than eating meat.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I wont argue the ethical thing. Fine.

        But what "hack" or beenfit is there to spurning meat - what is the upside?

        Also, if you think that added b12 is the same as the naturally present b12 along with all the other co-factors science has not yet identified youre not thinking clearly. Also, choline. Also taurine. Also vitamin D. Also creatine. Also Omega three fatty acids. Also the full spectrum of all the amino acids (not just the alleged 9 essential). grinding up vitamins not present in your foods and adding them later may satisfy the Science! but its nowhere near the same thing as those vitamins, minerals and nutietns being there naturally in the correct amounts, in biolavailable and digestible forms and along with other chemicals and compounds in the necessary amounts that are required for their use absorption and benfits.

        So before you tell me some bullshit about algae, chia seeds, quinoa and how brown rice and lentils provie all 9 essential amino acids, please tell me the BENEFIT of never eating some lean meat, fish and eggs.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Ethical is bullshit because they kill millions of rodents with pesticides, then those pesticides cause runoff and dead zones in the water.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I’m vegan, there’s no discernible benefit in being 100% plant based and eating some animal products once in a while.

          Regular consumption of saturated fat from animal products will raise your LDL and risk of heart disease. But there are other lifestyle and genetic factors that can alleviate this, and even some extremely athletic vegans have naturally high LDL. And coconut/palm oil will do the same thing

          Veganism is purely an ethical thing. Some people confuse it with being a plant-based dieter. Plant based dieters (who aren’t vegan) who don’t eat animal products tend to do so for health and often don’t realize eating certain animal products in moderation isn’t bad for you, this is often fueled by a touch of orthorexia and the person just prefers feeling like they’re eating “clean” all the time

          Anyways, the rest of the nutrients you listed aren’t a major concern. The b12 you get from animal products is supplemented 99% of the time to the animal anyway. Cyanocobalamin is cyanocobalamin, doesn’t matter where it comes from, most people should supp Vitamin D. Vitamin D and b12 are some of the most common fortifications added to food as well so these days as a vegan you hardly have to supp them.

          Choline is trivial to get, your body makes taurine, supping creatine is already normal among even non-vegans, and the schizo point on amino acids is bizarre and it’s not clear what you’re concerned about

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Thank you for a sane and coherent response.

            I will breifly address the amino acid concern: we have been told by Science! that there are 9 essential amino aciods. This is a poor choice of words, since all the amino acids are essential to human life, but the so called "9 essential" are the ones that humans cannot make, therefore they must come from foods. You follow?

            So vegans think they are covered if they somehow rig their diet to get those 9 essentials.

            But what if, due to natural human variability, Tom does not make enough of Amino Acid X to satisfy his needs? This happens, right? People have weaknesses and deficiencies and unique variabilities - so if Tom cannot make any or enough of AAX and he is a vegam, so he only gets the adequate amounts of the 9 essentials. what happens? The answer is he is not as robust and healthy as he otherwise would be, if he ate a diet with emat that is replet with ALL the AAs we need and use.

            Simply making sure you get enough of the 9 EAA is not good enough for robust health. I dont know how they test for individual deicienies in making individual amino acids. But why risk it?

            Why say, "I am going to eat a vegan doet wherein I am able to take in the least amount of AAs so that I dont die in 6 months" instead of saying "I will eat a meat containg diet where I get all the AAs I could need - essential and otherwise - in abundance from my food."?

            The nuturional vacancy of the vegan doiet (think about it - a 1/2 pound of steak has just about every single vitamin, mineral, amino acid, fat, chemical and compound in it that a 1/2 pound of your own quadricep meat has in it - chemically, by analysis (not by genetics, obv) steak has the same contents as your own body in the same amounts. Chicken less so, but the point stands. A pound of lentils is very dissimlar to a pound of human flesh, but a pound of steak is almost idnetical.

            Thats my point.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I'm vegan
            Animals don't care about you and you are a major inconvenience to those misfortunate enough to care about you.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Also, if you think that added b12 is the same as the naturally present b12
          Yeah it's the same for the most part, unless you have evidence that humans who supplement b12 are still b12 deficient
          > taurine
          non-essential and can be supplemented
          >choline
          choline is present in tofu, cruciferous vegetables, and beans
          >vit D
          Go outside and it is added most vegan milks. or mushrooms if you really want it naturally from food
          >creatine
          non essential and all creatine studies have had it sourced from a supplement.
          >omega
          easily supplemented or converted from omega-6. Not really essential either.
          > Also the full spectrum of all the amino acids
          Who cares if they aren't essential. Your body creates them if you need them.
          >grinding up vitamins not present in your foods and adding them later may satisfy the Science! but its nowhere near the same thing as those vitamins, minerals and nutietns being there naturally in the correct amounts
          Prove it.
          >please tell me the BENEFIT of never eating some lean meat, fish and eggs.
          I don't think there is a benefit. Veganism is an ethical stance. As long as you're not overloading on saturated fat or processed red meat, then there isn't a major health concern with lean meat, fish and eggs.

          https://i.imgur.com/31puL15.jpg

          Ethical is bullshit because they kill millions of rodents with pesticides, then those pesticides cause runoff and dead zones in the water.

          Livestock eat more crops than humans do. Less crop deaths with veganism. And generally I don't care about crop deaths, because they aren't done purposely. Humans die accidental deaths all the time, but we don't condone raising and killing humans for food. Don't see why vegans need to be held to a perfect standard when we don't even hold that standard for our fellow humans.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            This post is an excellent illustration of how people defend the nutritional vacancy of vegan diets.

            I dont want to eat a diet that has to be supllented by powders added from big pharma, and I dont want to rely on my bodys ability to synthesize amino acids from scratch, and I dont want to have the least amount of nutirtion that is defnesible.

            I want the most nutrient dense foods, not the least. I want the most abundant fooods. I want the tightest, wettest pussy on the hottest woman - not just any hole i can spit in.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >I dont want to eat a diet that has to be supllented by powders
              Okay? I think it's kinda of a b***h move to choose to feed, raise and kill innocent animals over just taking a multivitamin, but whatever.
              >from big pharma
              lmao supplements aren't "big pharma" anyone can start a supplement company, its' why every fitness influencer and his mother has one.
              >I want the most nutrient dense foods, not the least. I want the most abundant fooods
              per calorie, veggies are the most nutrient dense foods on the planet.

              Thank you for a sane and coherent response.

              I will breifly address the amino acid concern: we have been told by Science! that there are 9 essential amino aciods. This is a poor choice of words, since all the amino acids are essential to human life, but the so called "9 essential" are the ones that humans cannot make, therefore they must come from foods. You follow?

              So vegans think they are covered if they somehow rig their diet to get those 9 essentials.

              But what if, due to natural human variability, Tom does not make enough of Amino Acid X to satisfy his needs? This happens, right? People have weaknesses and deficiencies and unique variabilities - so if Tom cannot make any or enough of AAX and he is a vegam, so he only gets the adequate amounts of the 9 essentials. what happens? The answer is he is not as robust and healthy as he otherwise would be, if he ate a diet with emat that is replet with ALL the AAs we need and use.

              Simply making sure you get enough of the 9 EAA is not good enough for robust health. I dont know how they test for individual deicienies in making individual amino acids. But why risk it?

              Why say, "I am going to eat a vegan doet wherein I am able to take in the least amount of AAs so that I dont die in 6 months" instead of saying "I will eat a meat containg diet where I get all the AAs I could need - essential and otherwise - in abundance from my food."?

              The nuturional vacancy of the vegan doiet (think about it - a 1/2 pound of steak has just about every single vitamin, mineral, amino acid, fat, chemical and compound in it that a 1/2 pound of your own quadricep meat has in it - chemically, by analysis (not by genetics, obv) steak has the same contents as your own body in the same amounts. Chicken less so, but the point stands. A pound of lentils is very dissimlar to a pound of human flesh, but a pound of steak is almost idnetical.

              Thats my point.

              >Simply making sure you get enough of the 9 EAA is not good enough for robust health.
              Source needed
              >1/2 pound of steak has just about every single vitamin, mineral
              No it doesn't lol. Good luck getting your vitamin C, D, E and calcium from only steak.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >its a b***h move to produce your own high quality food over taking a non FDA regulated pill with dubious effectiveness on your body

                >Innocent animals
                You really have never spent time around livestock.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                not that anon, i used to be vegan for two years. i stopped because i was smoking too much weed and it gave me CHS where i would keep wind up puking all day, and the only thing that i felt safe to eat when i was recovering was slices of turkey meat.

                when i gave up veganism i got really into fitness and way more muscular and before i was a fat hippy homosexual with long hair.

                thank you for reading my blog now with the back story out of the way.

                there isn't just b12 and vitamin d, and its not just about what is "essential" especially because that comes with it this hubris that you think that the science is settled on nutrition and not evolving every day.

                >Also, if you think that added b12 is the same as the naturally present b12
                Yeah it's the same for the most part, unless you have evidence that humans who supplement b12 are still b12 deficient
                > taurine
                non-essential and can be supplemented
                >choline
                choline is present in tofu, cruciferous vegetables, and beans
                >vit D
                Go outside and it is added most vegan milks. or mushrooms if you really want it naturally from food
                >creatine
                non essential and all creatine studies have had it sourced from a supplement.
                >omega
                easily supplemented or converted from omega-6. Not really essential either.
                > Also the full spectrum of all the amino acids
                Who cares if they aren't essential. Your body creates them if you need them.
                >grinding up vitamins not present in your foods and adding them later may satisfy the Science! but its nowhere near the same thing as those vitamins, minerals and nutietns being there naturally in the correct amounts
                Prove it.
                >please tell me the BENEFIT of never eating some lean meat, fish and eggs.
                I don't think there is a benefit. Veganism is an ethical stance. As long as you're not overloading on saturated fat or processed red meat, then there isn't a major health concern with lean meat, fish and eggs.

                [...]
                Livestock eat more crops than humans do. Less crop deaths with veganism. And generally I don't care about crop deaths, because they aren't done purposely. Humans die accidental deaths all the time, but we don't condone raising and killing humans for food. Don't see why vegans need to be held to a perfect standard when we don't even hold that standard for our fellow humans.

                taurine is very helpful for things like mood and libido

                choline is really abundent in eggs, four eggs gives you more then your rda of choline, one cup of basedbeans has only 39%

                creatine has been shown to help with depression and mental health as well as with muscle recovery from working out, saying on a fit board that creatine is non essential is laughable especially with the added hubris that you think that the science is settled n nutrition.

                excess omega 6 fatty acids have been shown to correlate with the rise in disease in the last 100 years.

                there is evidence that saturated fat is less prone to oxidization and promotes testosterone and deminishes estrogen in the body.

                then there is the fact that in sheer scale of numbers, most of the people who are vegan that i have known have extremely lanky thin week bodies, and guant sunken eyes with dark circles around them, they look unhealthy.

                there are little to no serious atheletes that are vegan and it appears to accellerate aging, doctors and health public figures who preach being vegan look way more aged in their forties and fifties then literally people who do carnivore diet (which i also think is silly).

                i want vegan to be possible, and i'm open to the idea, but i would suspect that it would require quite alot of mad science.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Too long; didn't read you fat smelly idiot. Waddle the frick on back to your reddit shit hole, homosexual.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                in addition, there is iron (which supplemental iron can be harsh on the digestion and the body and hard to absorb), DHA (which is really hard to get in a vegan source and is not in very high amounts in Algae) and zinc.

                then there is the added fact that all these nutrients that you could be taking to be vegan are expensive and add up and not everyone has the luxury of the education or the time or the energy or the money to invest in being ones own micronutritionist to that extent (although i think ideally everyone should)

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                No point trying to convince these guys. They are ideologically committed and use junk science and cope to confirm their bias.

                One of the things that stood out to me when it came to what humans should be eating was creatine. A supplement that across the board confers benefits up to and around 5g a day. This suggests to me that humans have evolved eating diet rich in creatine, which is pretty much mostly carnivore.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >creatine
                higher plasma creatine levels are associated with a higher all cause mortality risk

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >associated
                Read my first sentence again. Junk science.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >This suggests to me that humans have evolved eating diet rich in creatine
                wow you're really fricking stupid.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >taurine is very helpful for things like mood and libido
                Then supplement taurine or drink Red Bull
                >choline is really abundent in eggs
                Cool you can still get it on a vegan diet
                >creatine has been shown to help with depression and mental health as well as with muscle recovery from working outa
                All of those studies were done with a creatine supplement. It's much cheaper and more practical to supplement creatine
                >excess omega 6 fatty acids have been shown to correlate with the rise in disease in the last 100 years.
                No it hasn't
                >there is evidence that saturated fat is less prone to oxidization and promotes testosterone and deminishes estrogen in the body.
                No it hasn't
                >then there is the fact that in sheer scale of numbers, most of the people who are vegan that i have known have extremely lanky thin week bodies
                This thread is literally about a guy who benches 3 pl8s. Or look three posts above you at Clarence. Where is his dark circles? how does he look unhealthy?
                >there are little to no serious atheletes that are vegan
                https://googlethatforyou.com?q=plant%20based%20athletes
                >and it appears to accellerate aging
                Pic related.
                >i want vegan to be possible, and i'm open to the idea, but i would suspect that it would require quite alot of mad science.
                >"not that anon, i used to be vegan for two years."
                Lmao

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >it's a b***h move to eat food like a man!!!!!!! you should be popping pills l-like a drug addict!!! the nice smart science men in their laboratories made those multivitamins for you goy!!!!!!!!!!!

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >This post is an excellent illustration of how people defend the nutritional vacancy of vegan diets.

              Couldn't agree more. I seen the wall of text and audibly laughed

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >This post is an excellent illustration of how people defend the nutritional vacancy of vegan diets.

              Couldn't agree more. I seen the wall of text and audibly laughed

              If that's how you feel, why do you filthy carnist try to rationalize it so much? If you're not motivated by the wellbeing of animals, then just eat your meat and go kick a dog? Instead you just start threads ranting at vegans you don't know on the internet.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >If you're not motivated by the wellbeing of animals

                AKTUALLY my family was one of the first 5 or so in North America to get Bison/buffalo. The population was under 1000 at the time (30ish yrs ago) and is now somewhere around 50k last time I checked. Moralities aside, I DESERVE TO EAT MEAT.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >abusing pets for no utilitarian reason other than sadistic pleasure is the same as carefully raising livestock and killing it as quickly and painlessly as possible for food.

                You guys really are mentally ill. How do you even function in life when you walk past a cafe and see someone drinking a late with real milk, or god forbid some bacon. You don't see animals, you see human beings. It really tells me just how little time you actually spend around livestock, and the rare times you have you just anthropomorphized them as much as possible.

                It's mental illness.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >anyone who has different worldviews than me is mentally ill!!
                midwit mentality. This is also why you are as dumb as you are, because you outgroup opposing opinions and pigeonhole yourself into moronation.

                Pure utilitarianism is going to get you into weird positions very quickly like thinking it's ethical for me to kill your mom and distribute her organs to people needing organs. inb4 but omg utility will drop because a society that does that blablabla. Ok assume it doesn't, and we harvest the organs in secret, is it okay now?

                anyways. Yes there's a difference between sadism and the reason most people eat animal products, which is ofc not out of sadism. Frankly most people who eat animal products wince at slaughterhouse footage.

                But it doesn't matter. The underlying reasons for eating animal products in most cases are fundamentally self serving and not out of necessity- but rather convenience, wanting to fit in, or being misinformed about nutrition (the latter most forgivable) hence analogizing them to sadistic abuse of dogs

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >the reasons most people eat animal products are self serving and unnecessary

                Humans evolved eating mostly meat. The rest was dairy, then a little bit of what edible plant foods were around (maybe 10% in volume, less than 5% in macros and total nutrition)

                Animal based is literally THE human diet. You cannot argue this. Go capture a wild carnivore and feed it nothing but tofu and kill it through malnutrition as an experiment.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Thats cool and all but..

                >https://www.jandonline.org/article/S2212-2672(16)31192-3/abstract
                >It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Nobody should take the position of this compromised organization seriously.
                > The AND, AND Foundation (ANDF) and its key leaders have ongoing interactions with corporations. These include AND's leaders holding key positions in multinational food, pharmaceutical or agribusiness corporations, and AND accepting corporate financial contributions. We found the AND has invested funds in corporations such as Nestlé, PepsiCo and pharmaceutical companies, has discussed internal policies to fit industry needs and has had public positions favouring corporations.
                https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36273816/

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                The easiest way to detect a novice when it comes to nutrition or any kind of science is when they discount organisations purely based on who funds them rather than the merits of their research. Also, those companies listed I'm sure would stand to benefit from discrediting veganism rather than promoting it.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                they don't do any valuable research

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Nah. The easiest way to detect a subhuman who is incapable of a scientific mindset is to determine whether they value nutritional epidemiology.

                90% of nutrition science is not science. Asking a bunch of people what they ate for the past 40 years and then "adjusting for confounding factors" is not science.

                Don't post again until you understand correlation vs causation, why surveys aren't scientific, and why variables need to be controlled BEFORE data collection.
                See you then.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Irrelevant to my point but ramble on son.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                It's completely relevant because the organizations you'd gladly ride the wiener of rely heavily on nutritional epidemiology you dishonest moron.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
                Appeal to authority fallacy. They are also an authority because they said so btw.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                This statement was written by vegans and Seventh Day Adventists lol go frick yourself

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Animal based is literally THE human diet.
                >Go capture a wild carnivore...
                lol

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                > Go capture a wild carnivore and feed it nothing but tofu and kill it through malnutrition as an experiment.
                Black person what would that prove?
                Also, why is it that our closest animal relatives eat plants, and why do we have appendices? And why do we not have sets of teeth typical for carnivores?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                The appendix is a vestigial organ in humans, people can and do survive just fine without it.
                the appendix is what happens when an animal no longer needs a massive cecum, it shrivels up and becomes a cecal appendix.
                >teeth
                Teeth mean nothing. The fangs mean frick all. Ever see a cat eat a mouse? it uses it's molars. Ever see a fruit bat skull? Look at it's teeth. Don't ever use the tooth argument EVER again you fricking moron.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >what would that prove?
                Animals have species-specific diets that they are evolved for. Feeding them otherwise leads to malnutrition. Humans evolved on +90% meat. Most of the vegetables, grains, legumes and even fruits you get at the grocery store aren't even a thousand years old. There were very few plants humans could eat when evolving and they made up less than 5% of their caloric intake.
                >why do our animal relatives eat plants?
                Because they are evolved to do so. This doesn't inform us on the human diet. Different species.
                >why do we have an appendix?
                Google "vestigial organs".
                >why do we not have a typical carnivore's set of teeth?
                Because we have an apex predator brain capable of creating sharp pointy sticks and other tools. Evolution occurs mostly in response to necessity. We didn't evolve a typical carnivore's teeth because we didn't need to (again, tool making).

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Humans evolved on +90% meat.
                completely false.
                didn't bother with the rest

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Why are we so good at digesting plants?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                NTA but we're not.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Aren't we? Then what did evolution mean by this?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I don't care what some disingenuous vegan infographic says, you have to be mentally ill and out of touch with your own body to think that plants are meant for human consumption.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Cannot thrive without supplements on a diet of solely plants
                >The plants we eat with the most nutritional potential are the least fibrous parts of the plants (usually nuts/legumes/seeds or non woody roots)
                >If we try to survive off of intensely fibrous foods like grass and leaves, death is guaranteed

                I dunno friend, I feel like our ape ancestors mog us in the plant digesting department

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >I feel like our ape ancestors mog us in the plant digesting department
                Sure, they may have been better than us at it, but I never claimed that we were superior to them, only to actual carnivores at digesting plants.

                I don't care what some disingenuous vegan infographic says, you have to be mentally ill and out of touch with your own body to think that plants are meant for human consumption.

                zero arguments detected

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                There's nothing to argue, You're a mentally ill moron and a masochist.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I see, we've resorted to name-calling now. I'm not even a vegan - I eat meat. You seem to just bury your head in the sand when presented with evidence that humans can naturally derive nutrition from plants. If anything, you are the deranged one in this conversation.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                We are better at digesting plants than carnivores because we are omnivores. And we are just okay omnivores.
                Without agriculture giving us monoculture fields and years of selective breeding, we would be hard pressed to survive off only plants. There's no real sugarcoating it but veganism is a very unnatural diet. I'm not saying this as an appeal to nature, I know nature is cruel. But without industrialization (the very thing that created factory farms), veganism wouldn't even be possible

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >But without industrialization (the very thing that created factory farms), veganism wouldn't even be possible
                Are you saying that factory farms for livestock are a necessary condition for plant-based diets to be viable?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Actually, yes. The issue with crop agriculture is that the highest diversity of plants can only be grown on tiny swaths of land concentrated around the equator. A lot of land is even poor for growing cereal crops, just grass. Humans can't eat grass, but herd animals like cattle, camels, sheep, bison, horses, and goats can In that way, the land is now productive.

                So, if you tried to create a world without any utilized livestock, that would dramatically increase the demand for more crop agriculture. Maybe we can get a lot of cereal crops/starchy tubers distributed, but humans can't survive off of that alone. There are a lot of people who depend on livestock.

                The real question is, can we raise livestock and efficiently feed people without feedlots, CAFOs, and battery cages?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I hadn't thought about it that way. Accepting that there are certain areas where livestock are the only way to make the land productive, what about the argument that you need an order of magnitude more farmland per calorie to raise animals than to grow food crops? I am assuming that the majority of meat comes from areas where one could just as easily grow food directly. Is this not true?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >more land to produce animals than crops
                I agree, but again, what kind of land are we talking about here? You bring up a good question following up which I think is in more merit of answering.
                Now, I only did a bit of research into the United States, but by quite a substantial margin, the bulk of beef comes from Texas, then followed by states which have similar environments (Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma) The landscape in most of Texas is incredibly arid with very nutrient poor soil. When I drove through Texas, the only crop production I saw there was cotton. Everything else was ranchland. It would be a horrible idea to rotate nutrient demanding crops like corn and onions, that's a recipe for a dustbowl. Perennials like grasses is a the only real sustainable way to utilize the land, as the grasses will keep the fragile topsoil from eroding.

                Are animals raised on plots of land where you could grow staple crops? Absolutely. But generally speaking, the bulk of that land is used primarily for crops (A drive through the midwestern United States proves that). Most of the beef producers in places like that are intense feedlots or very small beef operations that graze. This again leads me to the question I asked earlier. Can we raise livestock and efficiently feed people without feedlots, CAFOs, and battery cages?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >corn and onions.
                I'm sure you know I meant s-0-y
                Frick you fit.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                If you never farmed livestock in texas, you would have more calories in the world as the onions/corn doesn't get diverted to feeding the cows. The onions/corn is probably10x the calories of the beef generated.

                Also a bunch of other benefits such as:
                >decrease risk of zootic disease
                >reduce pollution from cow shit runoff
                >reduce cow fart effects

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                No thanks.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >corn and onions.
                I'm sure you know I meant s-0-y
                Frick you fit.

                Thanks for the reply and info. I had thought that the way they did it was a farming operation would be primarily be growing and feeding grain to their cattle, such that I apparently made a false equivalence of the use of land between growing food for the animals vs. growing staple crops for people. No clue if there would be a way to avoid highly cramped conditions for the animals while still being efficient, though.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >No clue if there would be a way to avoid highly cramped conditions for the animals while still being efficient, though.

                If you want my two cents on the matter, as someone who has a vested interest in agriculture, I actually believe there is a way to be efficient and avoid overstocked farms that don't allow for high welfare of livestock. ESPECIALLY with poultry and eggs. At least in the United States.

                There are a lot of laws that make it difficult for smaller farmers to make a living off of their food and compete financially with larger farms. There are a lot of laws and fees that are put in place to hold large density farms accountable that have no business on small farms. This goes for people who grow crops as well. Its hard to go into precise detail without writing too much but basically there are a lot of predatory practices going on in law that frick over small farms that provide better qualities of life for their livestock

                If you never farmed livestock in texas, you would have more calories in the world as the onions/corn doesn't get diverted to feeding the cows. The onions/corn is probably10x the calories of the beef generated.

                Also a bunch of other benefits such as:
                >decrease risk of zootic disease
                >reduce pollution from cow shit runoff
                >reduce cow fart effects

                Its difficult to say. In Texas, there are 13.1 million head of cattle (as of 2023 according to amarillo.com), and out of those, 2.5 million are in feedlots being finished on grain (according to the texas observer). This then doesn't account for over 10 million head. This statistic seems to imply the bulk of cattle in Texas aren't in feedlots.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                In Texas, many cattle are on ag exempt land for real estate speculation purposes.

                -purchase land 10 miles from growing city
                -put a few cattle on it
                -hire a hand to tend them
                -sell land in ten years when the sprawl reaches the ranch land

                I don't know the stats but I see a lot of low intensity ranching in Texas.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >urban sprawl reaching ranch land
                That sounds like how ranches near texas cities work, and even if urban areas are geographicaly growing at a cartoonish rate, anything 50-100 miles outside of city limits is rural. It would make sense that investors would sit on rural land and utilize it with ranging until the property value increases, but 10 miles from a GROWING city is not going to be cheap land.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Chimps are highly motivated hunters. When they are not hunting, they are grazing on termites. Not that the closeness of two species separated by 4.5 million years of evolution has any bearing on diet.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                If it weren't for reasonable posters such as yourself I'd have stopped using this site long ago. The average person here is so mind numbingly moronic that it feels pointless usually. Thanks for not being disabled.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >The underlying reasons for eating animal products in most cases are fundamentally self serving
                like being healthy? lmao. Are lions evil for eating gazelles? Are frogs evil for eating flies? It's natural Black person, if nature sucks too much for you cry about it and have a nice day, you weren't made for this world

                >b-b-but they have to murder and eat flesh! hoomans don't!
                No they don't, you could go into the wild, stuff the all the lions and all the frogs in cages and feed them vegan chow and powdered supplements until they die prematurely from their shitty diets. Will they be miserable and sickly? Yes, but so are vegans lmao. Why aren't you doing something to stop these genocidal races of maniacs anon????? Nah gay I'm just gonna keep doing what millions of years of evolution have guided me to do, eat meat

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >farmers spray pesticides, sets traps, spreads poisons, and crop protection specialists just direct shoot animals to keep them away from crops
            >you: "they aren't done purposely"
            Lmao
            >Humans die accidental deaths all the time, but we don't condone raising and killing humans for food
            Animals are not people and hence do not need to be considered with the same ethical framework. They die so you can live regardless of whether it's a crop protection specialist killing them to protect a field or livestock slaughtered to provide nutrient rich food.
            >why vegans need to be held to a perfect standard
            You're not being held to a perfect standard. People are telling you that animals are purposely killed in all forms of agriculture and you're ignoring it. And then you bring up all these supplements and exhibit poor knowledge of nutrition with things like

            >converted from omega-6 [n3 is not converted form n6]
            or misunderstand the meaning of
            >non-essential
            and pretend that it means you don't need to get it from your diet when it doesn't mean that at all. All "non-essential" means is that your body can produces some quantity that can be used. It doesn't mean that you don't need to get more from food.

            Creatine is an example of such a nutrient as the human body only produces 1-2g per day while anyone who is performs sufficiently intense physical activities needs more of it.
            >all creatine studies have had it sourced from a supplement.
            It turns out creatine levels are much lower in vegans and vegetarians than those who eat a little bit of meat every day. That's why we know this dismissal of creatine from food is nonsense.
            >Veganism is an ethical stance.
            You have an ethical position that precludes you from eating. However, you ignore the facts that would necessitate you to stop eating entirely.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Nta but I agree that it is nearly impossible to conform to vegan standards, given that animals are going to die for the sake of food production no matter what. There is the question of relative harm, though, and it's hard for me to imagine that raising livestock causes less harm than crops grown for human consumption, since you get the double whammy of the livestock themselves in addition to the crops grown to feed the livestock, which as I understand is considerably greater than just growing crops for human consumption. I don't personally care about this ethical conflict and eat meat regularly, but that is an argument I've heard from vegans.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              spray pesticides, sets traps, spreads poisons, and crop protection specialists just direct shoot animals to keep them away from crops
              Right. They would do the same to humans. If a bunch of brainless Black folk were raiding fields and stealing our food supply most people would be in favor of stopping them, even by force.
              >animals are not people and hence do not need to be considered with the same ethical framework
              Congrats, you just discovered the purpose of the vegan movement
              >People are telling you that animals are purposely killed in all forms of agriculture and you're ignoring it
              >You have an ethical position that precludes you from eating. However, you ignore the facts that would necessitate you to stop eating entirely.
              Because it's an accidental death. I've already explained that humans are killed too for ALL forms of agriculture. Why are you ignoring those deaths? Why do you drive a car if humans die in car crashes? Why do you live in a house if humans die in construction?

              https://i.imgur.com/K7FbzrL.jpg

              >its a b***h move to produce your own high quality food over taking a non FDA regulated pill with dubious effectiveness on your body

              >Innocent animals
              You really have never spent time around livestock.

              Yes it's a b***h move to exploit others for your gain.
              >dubious effectiveness on your body
              lmao
              >You really have never spent time around livestock.
              I actually volunteer at an animal sanctuary several times a month, so yeah probably a lot more than the larping farmers in this thread

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >I actually volunteer at an animal sanctuary several times a month,
                You play with a bunch of cull animals and pet pigs that were abandoned by people who realized they weren't teacup sized. You take livestock and think of them as dogs when you know deep down the pig you're cleaning up after and petting doesn't give a frick about you in the same way a dog would, because pigs aren't pack hunters. You also only do it a few times a month, whereas someone who actually cares for livestock doesn't get days off.

                >It's a bit move to exploit others for your gain.
                That is literally how society works. The only difference is you don't give a frick when it happens to people, because you are a misanthrope.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >You play with a bunch of cull animals and pet pigs that were abandoned by people who realized they weren't teacup sized
                It's not really playing, the entire sanctuary is volunteer ran so it involved cleaning, feeding and all the stuff you would do on a regular farm. And they are rescue animals from factory farms, so often have special needs from prior abuse.
                >You take livestock and think of them as dogs when you know deep down the pig you're cleaning up after and petting doesn't give a frick about you in the same way a dog would, because pigs aren't pack hunters.
                I don't care if the pig cares about me. I think they like me because they come up and greet me and play with me, but I don't really care. I don't abuse/exploit/kill something just because it "doesn't care about me" and think thats a pretty sad way to live.
                >You also only do it a few times a month, whereas someone who actually cares for livestock doesn't get days off.
                Fair enough.

                >That is literally how society works. The only difference is you don't give a frick when it happens to people, because you are a misanthrope.
                Nope to both things

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >All the regular stuff you would do on a regular farm
                >rescues from factory farms
                They are either unwanted culls or the "rescuer" paid the farmer a good deal for a live healthy animal, potentially even more than what the processing facility is offering for a single head. If they have a shitload of special needs like you are claiming, they are likely culls. Which makes sense since large scale consolidated farms will raise a lot of animals. The more animals, the higher chances of one being gimpy. Gimp animals exist on small farms, just like gimps exist for humans.

                Either way, you called out people who actually own and care for livestock full time as larping, when you do just exactly that. But insufferable vegans who cant just keep their personal beliefs to themselves are inherently hypocritical.

                Again, you don't care about people. You volunteer to work with animals, creatures who have zero potential outside of being nutrition. But you aren't bragging about working at womens shelters, drug rehabs, soup kitchens, or other human related charities because you don't think your time is worth spent with other humans.
                Lets face it, you hate humans, because we are the dominant species and have power over beasts. Instead of being awe inspired by it, you are disgusted.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                > care for livestock
                yeah man killing is totally caring.
                >But insufferable vegans who cant just keep their personal beliefs to themselves are inherently hypocritical.
                Where is the hypocrisy? And yeah thats how advocacy works. You spread a message and try to get people to change their ways, more-so when the victims can't speak for themselves.
                >Again, you don't care about people
                wrong
                >you volunteer to work with animals, creatures who have zero potential outside of being nutrition
                How ironic that you say I don't care about people and then group anything that doesn't "have potential" as worthless and only good for food. Do you feel that way about mentally disabled people?
                >But you aren't bragging about working at womens shelters, drug rehabs,soup kitchens, or other human related charities because you don't think your time is worth spent with other humans.

                I'm actually a social worker for my main job. And even if I wasn't what is your point? Do YOU do any of those things? Like I said before

                >Also, if you think that added b12 is the same as the naturally present b12
                Yeah it's the same for the most part, unless you have evidence that humans who supplement b12 are still b12 deficient
                > taurine
                non-essential and can be supplemented
                >choline
                choline is present in tofu, cruciferous vegetables, and beans
                >vit D
                Go outside and it is added most vegan milks. or mushrooms if you really want it naturally from food
                >creatine
                non essential and all creatine studies have had it sourced from a supplement.
                >omega
                easily supplemented or converted from omega-6. Not really essential either.
                > Also the full spectrum of all the amino acids
                Who cares if they aren't essential. Your body creates them if you need them.
                >grinding up vitamins not present in your foods and adding them later may satisfy the Science! but its nowhere near the same thing as those vitamins, minerals and nutietns being there naturally in the correct amounts
                Prove it.
                >please tell me the BENEFIT of never eating some lean meat, fish and eggs.
                I don't think there is a benefit. Veganism is an ethical stance. As long as you're not overloading on saturated fat or processed red meat, then there isn't a major health concern with lean meat, fish and eggs.

                [...]
                Livestock eat more crops than humans do. Less crop deaths with veganism. And generally I don't care about crop deaths, because they aren't done purposely. Humans die accidental deaths all the time, but we don't condone raising and killing humans for food. Don't see why vegans need to be held to a perfect standard when we don't even hold that standard for our fellow humans.

                Why do vegans need to held to a perfect standard? Jesus man, all I said was I want to help animals and you start sperging out asking why I aren't giving every ounce of myself to help every human related cause in the world.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I'm not asking you to give every ounce of yourself to help humans, but I AM saying you need to stop moral grandstanding and treating morality like a competition. If you want to be vegan, keep it to yourself. Otherwise, I am led to believe you are doing all this shit to stroke your own ego and try to feel superior to others, rather than just try to comfort your neurotic soul.
                >I'm a social worker
                This explains why you think mentally disabled people don't have potential.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Believe it or not, many vegans genuinely empathize with the suffering of nonhumans, just like your b***hass would if you walked through a Chinese dog market and saw a bunch of aw little puppers in horrendous conditions on the brink of being slaughtered.

                The difference is that vegans aren't so easily influence by culture and don't operate like a hivemind, so the distinction between le kawaii doggos and a pig become ambiguous and the ethics of veganism follow suite because of course they do.

                The life that you live is by in large possible and the wondrous opportunities and freedom you have are product of people before you standing up to injustice. It's a shame you have no inclination to leave such a legacy for future earthlings who crave comfort and run from pain just like we do

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >anyone who has different worldviews than me is mentally ill!!
                midwit mentality. This is also why you are as dumb as you are, because you outgroup opposing opinions and pigeonhole yourself into moronation.

                Pure utilitarianism is going to get you into weird positions very quickly like thinking it's ethical for me to kill your mom and distribute her organs to people needing organs. inb4 but omg utility will drop because a society that does that blablabla. Ok assume it doesn't, and we harvest the organs in secret, is it okay now?

                anyways. Yes there's a difference between sadism and the reason most people eat animal products, which is ofc not out of sadism. Frankly most people who eat animal products wince at slaughterhouse footage.

                But it doesn't matter. The underlying reasons for eating animal products in most cases are fundamentally self serving and not out of necessity- but rather convenience, wanting to fit in, or being misinformed about nutrition (the latter most forgivable) hence analogizing them to sadistic abuse of dogs

                You're fairly smart. If there were genetically modified plants that didn't have antinutrients and had all the nutrients that meat had, I'd go vegan. You require supplements and globalism for veganism to work, and there's nothing wrong with eating pastured milk and eggs.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Believe it or not, many vegans genuinely empathize with the suffering of nonhumans

                At the cost of empathy for humans. You guys have defective brains. I bet you are indifferent to the plight of human beings, and if you were honest with yourself you have always felt this way.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Nope, humans are by far the nicest animal on the planet and I think we’re pretty great. Doesn’t mean we can go take billions of other animals and birth them into hellish suffering for our pleasure, we are much better than that

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Fine, but at least be intellectually honest enough to admit a lot of vegans do not feel the same way you do, especially the subject of the OP.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Sure, I think you’re right. There are emotional reasons why this happens to vegans (and many different types of activists). If everyone you knew was happily paying for a dog sandwich supreme from McDognals and you saw footage of dogs being horribly abused and killed in disturbing ways to produce it you would probably find yourself jaded and disconnected from people too. Particularly when they try to justify such a gross thing

                I’ve been vegan over a decade so I’ve come to terms with what is happening and frankly I understand that humans are only very recently civilized. This isn’t to say people aren’t responsible but when we only really gave black people rights 60 years ago it doesn’t surprise one that people aren’t all on the same page with pig rights or chicken rights.

                Much of life is quite gray like this. And the disconnectedness we have from our food system is a big reason why many very decent and compassionate people can shrug off the horrendous cruelty animals often go through before ending up on their plate

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >most of like is quite gray like this

                There is nothing gray about what humans are evolved to eat. It's mostly meat and a tiny bit of plants. Indisputable

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I’m evolved to eat your mom’s pussy, doesn’t mean I’m gonna ruin her relationship with your step dad to do it

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I am not happy with how a lot of animals are treated, but I am also not happy that israelites rape kids. And I can't really do much about either. Regardless, animal nutrition is essential for human health.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                The only reason I have any issues with something like the chinese dog meat market is the same reason I have issues with the chinese meat market in general.
                Poor regulation, sick animals, HORRIBLE hygiene. I don't give a frick about dogs getting eaten, vegans need to stop trying this as a big gacha moment.

                >Vegans don't operate like a hivemind
                bullshit. I have talked to vegans who literally want to become a part of a hivemind. Veganism is basically nothing BUT propaganda in order to manipulate people into not thinking critically about things. This is all just a result of being born without any sort of connection to your food, you see a "documentary" like dominion that looks for the worst of the worst in animal husbandry, and tells people that they are awful for eating all animal products, even if it comes from an ethical source.
                Like holy shit I have a friend who raises a small handful of hogs, and her best sow (best being that she wasn't idiotically crushing her own piglets, which is common in sows) killed herself by being an idiot and cramming her face into a corner in the middle of the night and suffocating, and some vegan went and shamed her for eating her meat. That's how fricking stupid you bleeding hearts are.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                As stated prior, if you think causing PAIN to a being is bad but murdering the being is fine, your ethics are moronic. Makes absolutely no sense chief. Try telling me suffocating your mom in her sleep is okay because she felt no pain while i did it. inb4 humans are different!! Ok name the difference that you use to make that judgment

                Also, you will never, and I mean never, have animal slaugher on a societal scale that is “painless” or remotely dignifying to the animals you are sending to die for no good reason. Imagine living in the lala land where you think slaughter companies are gonna start hiring trained aestheticians to “gently put ur lil cow to sleep”.

                Slaughter on the scale of millions, or even (horrifingly) billions annually is never going to be pretty. If you have a problem with that then do something about it and stop eating the shit

                inb4 all my meat comes from my happy uncles farm where he pets all the moomoos to sleep in their old age and they beg to be vacuum sealed and shipped to your dad’s fat greasy drooling lard mouth

                Also, yes I will redact my statement, many vegans operate as a hive as well. That’s just human nature. Your anecdote about your friend doesn’t mean anything and I don’t know why people go “look at what this ONE person (out of hundreds of millions) did and so therefore everyone belonging to their demographic is dumb!” unless you are trying to signal your low IQ to me and its really a cry for help

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >suffocating your mom in her sleep is the same as raising an animal for food and killing them quickly
                Stopped reading there. You are a psycho.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                You’re the one throwing money at corps that gas pigs to death while they scream in agony, but yes I’m a psycho for using a hypothetical in an ethics related conversation. Truly unhinged over here

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I raise and slaughter my own animals. It's not that deep. They are animals, not human beings. When you confuse the two thats when you end up in psycho territory, psycho.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >non-humans aren’t human
                Yes very insightful thank you. Surely because animals aren’t humans you wouldn’t consider snuff film producers psycho? I mean, it’s not a human bro. It probably doesn’t even feel pain. Surely you’re consistent with your logic right?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Read this out loud and then read your post out loud. Do this as many times as it takes.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                By calling my response a non-sequitur are you implicitly saying that you do think torturing animals is wrong? Why bro? They aren’t humans, it’s not that deep. Nature doesn’t care

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I’m evolved to eat your mom’s pussy, doesn’t mean I’m gonna ruin her relationship with your step dad to do it

                Just another thread where the vegans got whipped into submission. Ez

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >taking care of an animal, ensuring it has a healthy birth/hatch, raising it in a safe, warm, dry, clean environment, giving it fresh air, enrichment, and the ability to freely express its natural behaviors for the benefit of its environment
                >But uh oh! You shot it in it's head, killing it instantly, and ate it! Now you are LITERALLY the same as some homosexual who rapes and tortures his pets!
                >Sure that dog was starved and your animal was always well fed, but you BETRAYED IT! Which means you're JUST as BAD!
                You know, it actually doesn't surprise me that a high percentage of animal rapists are vegan.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >this analogy
                What the frick? How fricking stupid are you? Was this supposed to be some big own or something? Do I really have to explain this to you?

                Snuff films are films where people are killed. Humans are killed for entertainment. So yes, it is a human. I'm sorry I glitched you out when I said I see pigs and chickens as not humans.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Defective vegan brain at work over here. How do you feel about israelites bombing Palestinian children? Probably nothing. Do you swat flys? How do you manage wienerroaches? Rats in the attic?

                Morality is arbitrary. You value the lives of (certain) animals. We don't. It's that simple.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >How do you feel about israelites bombing Palestinian children?
                bad
                >do you swat flys?
                If some guy snuck up to you and started buzzing in your ear would you smack him?
                >How do you manage wienerroaches?
                >Rats in the attic?
                How would you manage homeless living in your house?

                >You value the lives of (certain) animals
                Nope. No differently than I value the lives of (certain) humans.
                >We don't. It's that simple.
                obvious

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Ah yes, when a homeless man is in my attic, I gas him with poison.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                If the police would not come for whatever reason you're sayin you wouldn't use force to get him out? Even if you had a wife and kids living there? Geese you're pretty tolerant

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >if the police would not come
                They will come and get your homeless man out.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Hypotheticals are hard.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Nah, a well crafted, truly plausible hypothetical is good.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Vegans are moronic. They get scared because "wooohh so many animals die!!!" Meanwhile they forget the world is a massive place with animals dying in nature more brutally than even the worst chinese slaughterhouse by the quadrillions every day. They don't care about animals. It's like they say, animals cant speak for themselves, so the vegans can use them as pawn to take away rights from their fellow man.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                You are just noise bro. Nothing you say has any real basis, you’re just trying to inject your bizarre internet reality into the world. Plenty of vegans acknowledge wild animal suffering and yes it is significant.

                >It's like they say, animals cant speak for themselves, so the vegans can use them as pawn to take away rights from their fellow man.
                Imagine how fricking stupid you would look and sound to any sane person if you tried to use this rhetoric in another context, like animal abuse laws with dogs. “What, I can’t leave my dog chained up outside starving to death for weeks on end?! These frickin yuppy ass vegans!!”

                Use your fricking brain m8

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                See

                https://i.imgur.com/pLwGjQW.jpg

                Read this out loud and then read your post out loud. Do this as many times as it takes.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Look in the mirror moron.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >even if it comes from an ethical source.
                How do you ethically kill something that doesn't want to die?

                The average animal has less worth or potential than the average person.
                I repeat, you need to stop moral grandstanding and treating morality like a competition. We both know how shitty consolidated animal agriculture is. I left to go raise my own livestock on a small scale that fits my personal code of ethics, and you decided to go vegan. Neither of us are better than the other, you aren't better than a person who decides to eat mcdonalds. You make your choice, and that's all there is to it. Maybe if you actually kept yourself busy you'd learn to mind your own business and accept that people have their own lives to worry about

                >Neither of us are better than the other
                Yeah I don't spend a huge chunk of time raising and feeding an animal just to betray it's trust and kill it for something I could get from a multivitamin.
                >mind your own business
                Ironic coming from the person who is arguing for exploiting others.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                > but I AM saying you need to stop moral grandstanding and treating morality like a competition
                I'm not.
                >If you want to be vegan, keep it to yourself.
                >*makes thread shitting on vegans*
                >"wooooow why are you standing up for yourself and defending your cause? Keep it to yourself bro"
                And no I won't "keep it to myself" thats the whole point of advocacy you moron. If it bothers you so much then maybe you should start questioning your own morals. Nobody walks up to someone advocating against child abuse and says "keep it to yourself"
                >This explains why you think mentally disabled people don't have potential
                There are plenty of animals who are more intelligent and aware than severely mentally disabled people. If you say all animals don't have worth or potential, then those people would fall into that category.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                The average animal has less worth or potential than the average person.
                I repeat, you need to stop moral grandstanding and treating morality like a competition. We both know how shitty consolidated animal agriculture is. I left to go raise my own livestock on a small scale that fits my personal code of ethics, and you decided to go vegan. Neither of us are better than the other, you aren't better than a person who decides to eat mcdonalds. You make your choice, and that's all there is to it. Maybe if you actually kept yourself busy you'd learn to mind your own business and accept that people have their own lives to worry about

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Livestock eat more crops than humans do.
            Feel free to eat the "crops" that cows eat. It's high in fiber, so it must be good for you, right?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous
          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Livestock can just eat grass though lol
            Frick globalism.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Livestock eat more crops than humans do
            Livestock eats crop byproducts like corn stalks and seed hulls that humans can't digest. They also eat grass that grows naturally with absolutely no human input. It would be impossible to feed the current global population with a vegan diet, we could not even come close.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >thats it dude. don't see what's gay about standing up for the voiceless.
        Meanwhile 99% of vegans I meat are pro choice.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          There's nothing inconsistent there if you're a welfarist vegan.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >welfarist
            Vegans aren't usually welfarist. They want to give animals a right. Welfare absolutely requires human interaction. Things like domestication, utilization, and yes, even termination are necessary. A lot of vegans think animals have no buisness with humanity, and humans inherently have an exploitative relationship with animals that is a net negative for the animals.

            It's stupid, and so is veganism. Vegetarianism with occasional meat from high quality sources makes more sense.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Yeah it's insane when they won't eat honey. It's not like bees are alienated from their labor Marx style lol.

              Or not supporting highly beneficial industries like oyster habitat re-establishment.

              Honestly ,have vegans never cared for plants? Do they not know how complex their behaviors can be, not just in terms of light, but to cold, heat, insect presence. Plants have a low grade form of sapience. You can experiment on this with fast growing flowers at home. I don't see a relevant moral difference between plants and animals with decentralized ganglia systems.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Most aren't, it's just exhausting arguing with people and having to explain yourself every time they find out you're vegan. So it's easier to just pretend it's each to their own so people will drop the subject.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Well you won't have to deal with that when you quit veganism within the first 5 years like 85% of all vegans do due to "catastrophic health failure"

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Well I'm a couple of months away form the 5 year mark and am healthier than before I was vegan so it looks like it's just a case of being intelligent enough to watch what you eat, which you should be doing anyway regardless of veganism.

              I think it's possible most 'vegans' who turn back to meat weren't even vegan in the first place and still ate animal products in secret but obviously that would get tiring. The former vegan influencers who become carnivores spout way too much cope for me to think they genuinely considered the ethical arguments of veganism when they made the switch.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >lying on the internet
                How could you

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >standing up for the voiceless

        how can you say something as gay as this without just straight up offing yourself after?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Dude not abusing animals is so GAY lol fricking pwned. What a little sally. Real men fill their fat rancid beerguts with the flesh of animals we pay miserable low wage workers to abuse and kill in an eternal terrifying march to their death, the luckiest of which is unconscious after the first stun, the unluckiest of which is screaming in agony as they’re lowered into a chamber full of carbon monoxide so dense it feels like fire is being blown in every orifice on their body or they are boiled alive fully conscious

          Haha ya fricking sick dude. HEY MOM, MOOOM?!? WHERES MY FRICKING TACO *BUUURP* BELL?? I CANT COME UP YET IM IN A GAME BRING IT DOWN!!! M- *BURPPR* MOOOM!!

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Isn't vegan
            >that means they instantly eat low quality fast food and can't cook
            Yes, because vegans ONLY eat the highest quality food and would NEVER EVER be caught dead at a fast food establishment.
            Here's your (you), now record what you said and send the sound link so this board can hear just how intelligent you sound.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              did you mean to reply to my post? What you said doesn't engage anything that I said. Plenty of non vegans eat healthy and plenty of vegans eat like shit, who cares

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Multivitamins don't do anything

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Animal welfare and environmental concern is a big one but I find most vegans I talk to just don't like meat or didn't have it growing up. They're the same as anyone else- just eating what they grew up with for the most part.

      As for health perspective- if you look at the diets with the best health and longevity pescetarian comes out on top and veganism is only slightly behind. It's comparable to the Mediterranean diet

      I'll get a lot of shit for this because IST is moronic but objectively veganism is pretty damn near the top and if you compare it to SAD it's miles ahead, but then almost everything is

      The protein concerns are valid but it's not deficient, it just takes more time and effort to get in the same amount because, like you highlight, plant proteins are generally less bioavailable

      The other complaint I hear a lot is amino acid profile but that's almost pure bullshit. Plenty plant proteins have a complete amino profile and even cheap combinations like rice and beans covers everything you need

      Getting in your calories is definitely a c**t on vegan and vegetarian diets though- a man can only eat so much peanut butter before he goes insane

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I've been increasingly moving towards veganism as I get older.
      I just don't like meat that much. I remember when I was a kid my parents telling me to finish eating the meat on my plate.
      I like meat when it's kinda incorporated or disguised in another food, like a burger or pizza, but when it's just by itself it's not that appetizing unless there is sauce and other things on it.
      I mean, just eat a pain chicken breast. It's not that great. You need to put chili sauce on it to make it edible.
      Also, raw meat gives me the ick. Having to touch it, and prepare it, it's no different really to a serial killer chopping up a human body. When you prepare a meal with meat in the kitchen, you are basically Geoffrey Dahmer slicing up some gay guy.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >raw meat giving me the ick
        You are a homosexual that even Dahmer wouldn't have touched. I've butchered my own animals and if you aren't limp wristed and heavily zogged you realize its just a dead animal, not a dead human being.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Animals are our relatives, you are killing your distant cousins on your family tree.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            moron take. Humans are humans. Livestock is livestock. Confusing the two is just a symptom of misanthropy.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Veganism is a form of ressentiment. They are weak people that try to project power through a contrived morality.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      They pop b12 like candy and still end up deficient
      That’s proof enough

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >But from a health perspective, what health benefit is there to avoiding lean meat and several eggs per week?
      None (except in cases when you have some shitty food intolerances).
      Any balanced diet is equally good. Extreme diets like vegan or carnivore one are just harder to balance.
      >ex-vegan due to ethical reasons

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >But from a health perspective, what health benefit is there to avoiding lean meat and several eggs per week? What exactly is the "toxin" that gets avoided?

      Surprised no one answered.

      Meat is, especially red meat, known to cause heart disease, high cholesterol, cancer and type 2 diabetes.

      Meat also contains hormones added and antibiotics put into the animal, that goes into you. That can frick you up.

      I'm not a vegan, that's moronic because lack of protein and iron, but I understand the concerns.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >type 2 diabetes.
        I always scratched my head at this one. Like, what mechanisms in meat, namely red meat, a food that has very little effect on insulin, have in that would cause the body to become insulin resistance?
        If red meat was the main cause of type 2 diabetes, why would India, a country notorious for its abstinence from beef, have some of the highest diabetes rates in the world?

    • 1 month ago
      Professional Spaniard

      Veganism is a leftist phenomenon. It's about deriving a twisted sense of moral superiority by going against your natural instincts and torturing yourself. In this specific case, with dietary restrictions.

      This tendency towards glorifying self-flagellation is present in all leftist ideologies, and they inherited from christianity (the original libtards).
      You could see these same "holier than thou" attitudes in puritans and other Christian sects. Marxism and all ideologies derived from it are basically christianity for atheists.

      Arguing against them never works and actually encourages them even more in their moronic moral crusade to prove people skeptical of veganism wrong.
      They often end up dying because of it. Or end up killing their children with the diet and end up in prison. This is what no saturated animal fat does to a MFs brain.

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Just eat beef liver once a week and some skyr and tuna during your plant based week and call it.

    Yeah the current state of the meat and dairy industry sucks but reduction is better than extremist veganism.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I am not a carnivore AND I am not moved by the ethical arguments of veganism - Im okay with an animal, a lesser life form, having to die so that I can thrive. No problems whatsoever with that concept, in theory or rpactice.

      However, I do feel like we should use our human gifts to minimize the cruelty and siffering required. I fully support any/all methods to reuce the suffering of the animals that igve their life so that we can have ours. I dont think thats a radical statement.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        If you think inflicting pain on a being is bad, but murdering the being is not, your ethics are very strange.

        I think what you mean to say is that as long as an activity is socially normal and benefits you you’re okay with it. In that case, you have the ethics of a coward and a child.

        I genuinely consider you a lower life form than me in the current state you are in. But I’m not so moronic to think that makes it ethical for me to slit your throat

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          painless murder is completely ethical. for example if i kill a homeless person in his sleep and no one misses him, then its alright. might even have done him good if he was mentally ill

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I bet his apartment smells like sewage

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I cannot imagine the horror of living like that with a nasty gym in the kitchen with a wife that at one point was kinda cute but is just repulsive now.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Not just that but their apartment is full of animals as well. Crazy that I live within 100 km of this. I feel like when he snaps and kills his troony boyfriend, he will start serially killing around his area.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Did his “wife” transition or something?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Crazy how his wife went from resembling a woman (a disgustingly average-looking one, but still) to looking a total hogbeast. Guess anyone would stop caring about self-grooming if a scizi sociopath who happens to be a closet gay is the best you can do... or maybe her vegan-based diet is causing problems with estrogen production causing her to look like a man?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        if I had to live with that schizo I'd become an ugly androgynous ogre too.
        Every time I've been hit on by vegan men it has always been an unnerving experience. They give off the same red flags that I get when getting hit on by an obviously abusive man.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    morons who judge vegans should read the bible. it says whatever you eat as food isnt special. that includes vegans and meat eaters. this debate is for internet cuck losers

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >you should look to the bible for nutrition advice

      Why would I do that

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The bible says faith is more important than food, it's about spiritual ascension, not about a having a perfect body.

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Vegans are moronic yes, they hate saturated fat but all their heroes eat mostly saturated fat in the form of short chain fatty acids which they get from fermenting plant matter which vegans cant do

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    kind of thinking of going vegan for like a month just to shit better. feel like its the nutritional equivalent to putting premium gas in your car

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      If you want to shit better learn how to squat like an asian.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      kek good luck with that

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        he looks exactly like a stereotypical israelite, pretty crazy.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Bad idea. Whenever I eat too many vegetables my shits are awful. They stick to my ass and I fart ALL the time. Grains with a bit of egg as well as meat a few times a week works great for my digestion. I think men and taller people who are looking to bulk up in muscle should eat more meat though, like once or twice a day.

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    post his culo

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    First of all he does not weigh 300lbs, second of all he doesnt train lower body cause of his knee issue and third of all he benched 315 for 10 reps and he is in his 30s you disigenuous homosexual

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >he is in his 30s

      You mean when men are supposed to be at their physical peak? Go back to roblox you insufferable zoomer

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    EAT
    A
    BALANCED
    DIET
    its that simple
    balance of vegetables, fruit, dairy, meat, grain.
    each meal should be the size of your closed fist. no more no less.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >eat a balanced diet!!!
      >you need to eat a little bit of everything that you only have access to due to globalisation

      You shouldn't even know what a fricking banana is you oversocialised little c**t

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Lil bro is cucking himself with his shit diet

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    He's going to kill himself or go on a rampage within the next few years

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Former 15 year vegan here.
    I was able to get decently strong being vegan (525 lb. raw squat, 550 lb. raw dead, shitty 330 lb. bench), but I was having to eat a frickton daily to feel like I had any energy, and I got sick and hurt all the fricking time.
    Stopped being vegan about a decade ago, went back to eating meat, dropped 40 lbs. from my vegan days, looked my best, was stronger pound-for-pound and only lost 25 lbs. on my max squat while setting deadlift PRs at a lighter weight while closing in on 50 years old.
    I haven't had a major injury since I stopped being vegan, I only get sick once every few years instead of 3-4x/year for 2-3 weeks each time, and I have WAY more energy than I did as a vegan.
    Veganism doesn't agree with many people, I was one of them.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Look up regenerative grazing and dead zones. Veganism doesn't agree with humans, vegetarianism can work to a certain extent though. You have to take a wienertail of supplements and be genetically unique to do well on vegan for prolonged periods of time.

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    With some of the unhinged shit I've read on here, I am led to believe Richard is actually active in this thread.
    Richard, if you are reading this: Divorce your "wife" and then have a nice day before you shoot up a preschool because the voices in your head are telling you they are future carnists

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Veganism is good when you approach it like Bryan Johnson

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Do you believe Marvel movies are real life too?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Bryan Johnson
      hes the guy who wants to look young but he just looks like a guy in his mid 40s, right?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >veganism is good when you take 7,000 supplements per day and get blood transfusions from an 18 year old

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I like watching 'why I'm no longer vegan' videos of which there are thousands

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I would frick but wtf is up with her feet

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        When your body starts shutting down your hands and feet are first to be effected, they should come back a little now that she's off the suicide diet

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        vitiligo, like michael jackson

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Lmfao vegans are so dumb. Like why would you purposefully go on a diet that if you're not paying attention to what you eat you eventually shrivel up and die? Like???? Bro I can just eat rice and meat with milk and a random veggie for years and years before seeing any nutritional related health complications. Meanwhile vegans try doing the same with rice, tofu and almond milk and will literally feel malnourished within a few months. It's absurd how easy it is to have an inadequate vegan diet compared to a normal person diet

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Vegans are so mindfricked, nearly on the same level as troony eunuchs.
    It's regrettable how they degenerate so quickly.
    Pic related takes huge things up her butt but she's vegan, with a tattoo of a cow's face with the word, "liberacion," and regularly smokes tobacco so her beauty has a quicker time limit on it. She also has the zoomer split dye job hair which I've heard is evidence of advanced Project Monarch conditioning.
    Two of the chicks I've fricked were vegetarian which isn't as bad and both of them were down for ass to mouth, one could prolapse, and the other one could take a rough fisting in her loose milf snatch.
    Both were degrading quicker than they should have, with one skinny fat in a way that one wouldn't realize just how much muscle she lacks until grabbing her, and the other with autoimmune and joint issues.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Forgot pic.

  25. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I had a vegetarian roommate, not even vegan he ate eggs and dairy. I trained him for 6 whole months free of charge and didn't even pay for his own gym membership I got him in free of charge. Everything was taken care of for him except his diet and by God did the little guy try I can't knock the effort and he ate a lot im a ~200lbs man and he could eat as much as me calorie wise at times, he started at 155lbs and 6 months later when I left he was whopping 155lbs same bf%(lean tho he had that going for him). I would not be a vegetarian.

  26. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    He used to look good...
    7 years later, he lives in a mess, has or had an onlyfans with his wife, wife became morbidly obese + very masculine, depressed, job is to make lives on youtube in front of 5k people... Sad

  27. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    > been vegan for a year now
    > save money and eat healthier because I cook more now
    > no changes noticed besides more farts

    idk sisters, skill issue maybe?

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