>left
>20+ years of lifting and androgen use
>phd in sports science, leading expert in the field of hypertrophy, written multiple books on the topic
>leaves 2-3 reps in the tank almost every set outside of the last week of his "meso"
>preaches volume over intensity, gradually increases volume week by week before dropping it for a deload
>mandatory deload every six weeks
>encourages exercise variety, says training a single movement too long will make it "stale"
>emphasizes full rom, controlled reps, no ego lifting, not worrying about the weight
>right
>3 years of lifting and androgen use
>7-11 sets per bodypart every time
>goes to failure every set
>never deloads
>does the same exercises over and over, says he's gone months only doing leg extensions for quads and tricep pushdowns for tris
>always goes as heavy as possible, does half reps on half the exercises he does
How far into your lifting career were you when you realized listening to "experts" is a waste of time and training like a bro is king?
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Don't forget left s a turbo manlet
>Both roid trannies
>You should care about this
no offense dude but if you're going to stay natty forever you shouldn't even worry about trying weight training for aesthetics. you'll never be big, so you'd be better off just doing rock climbing or mma or something and staying lean all year round.
no offense dude, but you're fricking moronic
If you think there is no point in doing something because there are other people out there using shortcuts and doing it better than you, you have already lost.
>being a freakish ugly roidtroony with terrible proportions is aesthetic because B I G
Shut up you mentally ill homosexual. You're as bad as a troon and you're a homosexual. I'll kick your big ass, you moron
Neither of the guys in the OP are aesthetic. They look like veiny wieners. Girls drip for "otter mode" guys with 12% bf. Steroids just make you look gay.
>Girls drip for "otter mode" guys with 12% bf
yeah i agree and training like a gymcel bodybuilder is non-condusive and largely a waste of time when 99% of it it just being lean
You have never talked to a girl
he's right
>Girls drip for "otter mode" guys with 12% bf
>yeah i agree and training like a gymcel bodybuilder is non-condusive and largely a waste of time when 99% of it it just being lean
Remember lean is now 25 in the united states. As the average bmi is 30
>obsessing over women in 2023
If you’re doing this shit for women you’re a lost cause. Money/status, face, height, and personality matter 1000x more than what your body looks like
>looksmaxing incel mindset
have a nice day you're a homosexual
he's right tho lol, women don't care about muscles. he even named personality so how is it looksmaxxing? moron.
>he's right i know i have no experience and never leave my moms basement but he's right
i can tell you have no experience cause a guy as jacked as sulek can go to any party or bar and get a 7/10 or an 8/10 easy just by being his size no go frick off back to /LULZ/ and keep making excuses for not getting laid
Ive seen dyels get 7 and 8 out of 10 women as well
Who cares? If you obsess this much over what your inferiors think you are ngmi
>missing the point this hard
theres no point in arguing with a moron like (you)
>keep making excuses for not getting laid
Not sure where you got that from, moron. I have a gf.
>a guy as jacked as sulek can go to any party or bar and get a 7/10 or an 8/10 easy just by being his size
Lmao, no
post lifts
They hate him because he spoke the truth
Truth and those disagree will never post body
based seething natties itt. natty lifting is a waste of time
S O Y E N C E is indeed wrong, but actual science, the one Mike Mentzer told us about decades ago, supports that intensity is the driver of muscle growth.
Train hard, not long.
Also full ROM doesn't matter as much as time under tension. Just holding the weight or lowering the weight over time and keeping the tension on as long as possible produces the most explosive growth. Since Sam doesn't do the full ROM he's basically doing statics and some lowering with cheat reps in each set.
To be fair thats a worn out body with burnt out downregulated androgen receptors vs a young fresh body .
Mike has the shittiest training advice.
His advice is good THOUGH.
>How far into your lifting career were you when you realized listening to "experts" is a waste of time and training like a bro is king?
This is not the right conclusion to draw from this. You are probably not being serious but there is always the possibility that you are.
What's the "right" conclusion to draw then?
Saying genetics is just a cope.
Here's the reality of what's happening.
Sam is using much higher dosages and training with much higher intensity, which is illiciting a far superior response to someone like Mike using "responsible" dosages and training at a "sustainable" level. Overall though, Mike has exposed himself to significantly more androgen abuse for inferior results, and probably still done more overall damage to his health than Sam has at this point.
>Sam is using much higher dosages
Correct. And probably having a better response to both the drugs and the training.
>with much higher intensity
This is not correct. If Mike just stopped with his RPE bullshit he would blow up in size right?
>Mike has exposed himself to significantly more androgen abuse
How so? Because he has done it longer?
>and probably still done more overall damage to his health than Sam has at this point.
More years more damage. Or are you going by dose? Do you know what these guys are taking?
Yeah if Mike stopped training his bullshit and upped the dose and increased intensity year he probably would blow up in size, yes. It's possible to make significant gains even after years of use already, look at Jujimufu over the past couple years once he started taking bodybuilding more seriously.
I've actually run a RP template before and the biggest problem isn't RPE, it's the progressive increase of weekly volume and the mandatory deload. The first two weeks of his programs start with conservative volume at RPE 7 are too easy. His mesocycles are six weeks long followed by a deload, so this essentially means that 3 out of every 7 weeks he trains are a waste of frickin time.
And yeah, I believe Mike has done a lot more damage to himself at this point. what do you think is riskier for your heart, 3 years of abuse in your early 20s, or still blasting through your mid 20s into your 40s at lower (still around a gram keep in mind) dosages? The guy has literally grown horns from using hgh for so long. I'm not saying Sam is overall going to end up healthier or what he's doing is responsible, but at this point I think he's taken far less permanent damage for superior results.
The main thing jujo did was starting to take juicing more seriously moron, he may have been leaving some low (teens) double digit gains on the table via training modality. It's obvious he was already training at an high intensity and consistency which will already net you most of your potential gains natty or otherwise.
For what it's worth I use his app for tracking and just ignore the RPE recommendations, it might be more useful for an advanced lifter who has to manage fatigue a lot more but for me I usually do my isolations to RPE 9/10.
Also for what is worth in their newer stuff its always RPE 8 at the lowest. Funnily enough Mikes nutritional/weightloss advice is probably his best content.
I did the same thing when I ran it. I honestly don't think it was a bad program but it just felt like the structure was trying too hard to lean into the periodization angle. It also felt like the last week specifically was a frickton of volume designed to beat you up just to justify the deload, when realistically you could just run the middle section for a lot longer.
>It also felt like the last week specifically was a frickton of volume designed to beat you up just to justify the deload
that's the point, but for strength when you can't do lmaoadd5lbs consistently
overreach volume and intensity on towards last 1-2 weeks of the block -> super compensate during planned deload, then either test or just restart with +lmao5lbs
based israelite making gymbros unwittingly run powerlifting blocks
Nah because the template I had (pirated six day chest and back spreadsheet) wanted you to change exercises every meso (leg press to hack squat or whatever). It jumped +10lbs on each fit throughout the six weeks of the meso.
I guess he's changed how he does things now, which just guys to show his expertise is incomplete and he's not the end all be all of training information.
I pirate the same one except whole body and if it was the physique excel template it didn't make you change shit. You just had the option too if you wanted to try something new or wanted variation for other reasons.
The actual structure of that program was fantastic and very complete but I agree the progression algo was ass because of the limitations of excel. It didnt really differentiate between different exercises or anything and the feedback was only one variable. My biggest criticism overall is the focus on a 7 day long microcycle but when I ran his program I would just adjust the volume it so I was just recovered by the time I hit the the same muscle again anyways.
I actually trust the person more who alters his stance given more data and experience than someone who regurgitates the same shit forever and pretends they know everything. I've watched maybe a couple dozen of his vids and fairly frequently he says that he doesnt fully know something specific bc the literature isnt there.
I kind of liked it honestly bc as much as I awknlodge you dont have to train to failure on every set its nice to have that week where you really push your limits and see if you have been bullshitting yourself with how much you had left in the tank.
>Yeah if Mike stopped training his bullshit and upped the dose and increased intensity year he probably would blow up in size
Lets make a distinction between upping dose and increasing training intensity.
Upping does more gains? Yes.
Upping his intensity more gains? No.
>The guy has literally grown horns from using hgh for so long
Kek
>what do you think is riskier for your heart, 3 years of abuse in your early 20s, or still blasting through your mid 20s into your 40s at lower (still around a gram keep in mind) dosages?
this is not the slam dunk that you think it is.
we still aren't sure how steroid-related heart failure actually kills you. athletes who use steroids, for example, are still less likely to suffer from heart failure than non-athletes who don't. left ventricular hypertrophy is bad, but is more worse? i've found articles that find a direct relationship and i've found articles that find no relationship at all. i've even found articles that show a parabolic relationship, where none is good and mild is worst and extreme is back to good again. we know that strength training increases wall thickness without increasing chamber volume (and therefore ejection fraction) whereas cardio tends to increase both wall thickness and chamber volume. not everyone with LVH dies. in fact almost all athletes, steroids or not, have LVH. maybe the real risk factor is whether or not you do your cardio?
it's easy to think that you understand something, but the truth is that until we sit down and give them both an echocardiogram we just don't know. and even if we did know exactly how thick each of their heart walls were, even that is not enough - because some people with very thick walls do fine, and other people with barely any impairment at all die. it's clear that there are other things that we don't even know about that play into this. i'm not saying steroids aren't bad for you. what i am saying is that pretending that anyone has any degree of control over their exposure to danger is, in and of itself, dangerous. people think "oh i'll just do it for a few years at low doses so i'll be fine" - that's not how it works, not really.
the good news is that this all reverts quickly once the steroid abuse stops, so in reality both of them would likely be equally fine if they got off the drugs.
Guy on the right is gonna die in less than 10 years
He probably isn't
>ignores the millions of zoomers who train like morons AND look like shit
yeah, genetics are a b***h
Mike is also literally old, you can't roid or lift yourself away from father time after a certain point. He literally came in 2nd in his last competition in his class and is trying to shoot for a 1st now.
In addition, look at the guys he trains using his methods as a whole rather than looking at him alone.
Very nice. Now let's see Sam Sulek's body in 20 years
>Sam Sulek in 20 years
You’re really good at reading tea leaves huh?
> roider is big
> roider on more roids even bigger
Simple as
did this sulek guy pay someone to spam poasts about him on IST 24/7?
I swear there has been at least one sulek poast in the catalog every time I have come on here these past few weeks
OP, if I find out that you are a paid shill, I will find you and cut you down with my katana
this is your final warning. you will be slaughtered, like the pig that you are.
it's him and some teen schizo zoomer shilling abt his generic youtube channel
Same thing with Sverige. Literally at least one thread every day
>yid genetics vs Amerikkking genetics
Right will be crippled when he's the same age left is now.
crippled in what way
Israetel has a PhD from some community college
I hate “le heckin’ science based” homosexuals like him and Nippard, both of whom are 5’6” or shorter.
Post body, obvious seething that those manlets you described have trained longer, harder, and smarter than you and reaped the results. You will never look as good as them or short king Alex Leonidas.
Also if you were actually able to read you would know you dont get your PhD from a community college moron.
Those midgets only look good on camera. Put them next to any average person in real life and they look ridiculous.
How long did it take you to realize genetics account for >90% of your results assuming you actually lift, eat, and sleep? 15 years for me.
Didn't take me long because it didn't take me long to become the biggest guy in the gym without gaining much fat at all at 6'2"
I realized it early when I noticed that my fat sedentary friend was stronger than 9/10 guys in the gym from the get go. Another friend always had a sixpack, even before going to the gym, and could maintain that level of bodyfat despite drinking himself into a stupor every weekend and binging on junk food.
how big you are depends solely on how much you eat, you moron.
training is the smallest and least important part of being buck. literally almost anything works, and when you're taking steroids LITERALLY anything works.
how big you want to get is a choice. it has nothing to do with how you train and everything to do with how well you can tolerate gorging yourself every day and walking around feeling like a fricking balloon.
ever wonder why bodybuilders cap out at around 300lbs? it's not because the drugs stop working, it's because that level of muscularity is when your quality of life really starts to tank.
>ever wonder why bodybuilders cap out at around 300lbs? it's not because the drugs stop working, it's because that level of muscularity is when your quality of life really starts to tank.
yes it literally is. plenty of pros bulk up to 300+ and end up 50lbs lighter on stage.
>yes it literally is
no it literally isn't, bro.
think about it rationally. for what you're saying to be correct bodybuilders would have to get to 300lbs and then at that point every calorie they eat would turn into fat, or effectively so anyway. so if they ate a 2000 calorie surplus every day they'd chub up to bloatlord status in no time.
but is that what we see happening? no. the mass monster bodybuilders of the modern era stay lean all year round. i don't think i've ever seen a modern competing mass monster without abs, even in the "offseason". these bodybuilders are not really trying to bulk up because if they were trying, and you were right (that the steroids stop working), we should be able to see them failing and getting fat. the reason that doesn't happen is because they do relatively conservative bulks so that they can stay lean and cut down to compete again according to the fairly gruelling pro competition schedule.
steroids do fall off in effectiveness but nothing like how you think they do. the reality is that it simply isn't that much fun to weigh like 350lbs, let alone the health risks.
you can actually calculate how much steroids fall off because we know roughly how testosterone dose affects muscle growth thanks to comparing steroid-enhanced training to hypertrophy in pubertal boys. the steroid curve matches exactly with the puberty curve, which is unsurprising because "steroids" and "puberty" are the same thing: lots and lots of testosterone. that curve is still effective way way up into insane doses like 100g a week, doses that would kill you. you would die, but you would still be gaining muscle while you did.
I'm seriously don't understand why you would right three paragraphs about something you clearly know nothing about. The reason pro bodybuilders stay in relatively good condition in the off season is because their coaches aren't fricking morons, and understand that gaining excessive amounts of bodyfat is overall a net negative because it means you either have to diet harder or longer, which either risks greater catabolism or means you have less time dedicated to gaining muscle.
Like I said, they do routinely gain 50-70+lbs in the off season and hold on to very little of it when they cut down. Urs Kalecinski is a relevant example right now. The guy is on his third year straight of bulking to 270,and every time he cuts down to classic he comes in several pounds under the weight cap. Gaining 10lbs of muscle in a year, even with grams of anabolic and gh and insulin, is considered a huge jump among the top pros.
>tfw natty cuck
truly it is a waste of time. i wish i had the balls to roid, but IST has convinced me that i will get acne, go bald, and will lose all my gains/size when i go off cycle. i dont know who to trust anymore, but I will keep lifting regardless.
>t. loser who has never trained with intensity.
nah, i was pretty intense with your mom last night though. :<)
haha sick burn bro
Go look up pictures of cows treated with trenboline and the ones that are not. All these drug addicts keep saying "you still have to put in the work" that couldn't be further from the truth. Taking peds literally makes your muscles grow I'd you respond well to them. You don't even need to train. You will literally just grow an insane amount barely doing anything. Like I said look up cows treated and cow that's are not. I'm totally sure that cow who is treated with tren is totally "putting in the work" guys. Fricking moron drug addicts
>one of these may be an extreme genetic outlier/hyperresponder
Mike has actually applied this to many clients and knows this works for many. If I'd have to pick my guess would be Mike's approach.
To be fair, no idea who the other is.
one guy is like 40+ years old, the other is like 20.
You are absolutely moronic for not realizing that this is the most likely reason for their training regimens.
Sulek is great. Meat and potatoes.
>lift weight until can't
>no pump?
>lift more
>pump?
>next exercise
New lifters twist themselves into analysis paralysis thanks to influencers pushing "science-based" lifting. Zoomers desperately needed someone to tell them to just pick up the damn weight.
I don't know who that is but I assume he's a roid monkey. The piano man's workout was basically "just get a pump everyday" and look where he is now.
pianos workout routines did not kill him moron
right takes more roids and responds better to roids
whats your point?
ive always thought the deload and rotating exercise thing is just a crock of shit. they're almost always switching out the exercise for one that is like 95% similar too so its like what the frick is the point?
I have been following Mike for 5-6 years now, you clearly don't listen to anything he says because he always says that there is no one right way to train but it varies on the trainee.
I do a deload every 5 weeks because it works for me, I start with 3 rir and end my meso with 0/1 rir depending on the exercise.
Never felt better and never looked better, used to train to failure all the time and had to take a break every other month.
Mike Israetel has worse bodybuilding genetics. That is the only reason he has a less impressive physique.