initially i switched from 2pl 5x5 to something like 35lb dips
bench fricks up my shoulders and there is no amount of advice to correct it. my arms are very long and torsoe is short so i have to path to my bottom chest and if even 1 of any 10 things goes wrong i lost a week of progress at least due to pain and then i fricking sleep on my side so my shit gets fricked up at night too. struggling with that dumb frick exercise for 0 reason when i dont compete is braindead. dips no such issue, and chest finally got heavily involved and grew fast
pullups are amazing too but i ohp heavily and alternate heavy dips so i dont have a place for them really. id rather hit pecs more than lats i guess ultimately
Skill issue, I got long lanky arms and all that too, still managed to achieve a 3 plate bench. Guarantee you had a wide grip, people who complain about pain on bench always do. Should have also supplemented with dumbbell bench and ohp.
>dumb frick exercise
You need to learn to bench better, don't blame the exercise. It's a lot more than just laying on a bench and unracking. You need to setup your back properly and find the right grip for your frame
ive already done all this, my form is good and others say its good. doesnt matter my shoulders are in pain
see what a bunch of israelites you are about it? you cant help but push it on people even though it doesnt matter. like heroine addicts
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
I get you man. I also have long arms and bench press was giving me issues in shoulders as well. But I found out about this neutral/talon grip on a youtube video and that shifted the slight load on shoulders to upper chest and triceps instead. I'd give a try to weighted dips as well.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
weighted dips is what i replaced bench with, been fine since and never lost a day to injury. bench is a israeli psyop and 90% of guys that think its fine will frick themselves later too. only takes one bad set. terrible exercise regardless of how well you do it
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Your shoulder position or form is bad if you're feeling benching on your shoulders. I have long arms too and I've never injured myself benching nor do I ever feel them on my shoulders unless the weight is too heavy. Keep your shoulders back and they won't round and cause you discomfort... you could also adjust your grip wider but either way blaming bench or "replacing" a easily overloaded compound like bench is DYEL behaviour. You should be doing bench AND weighted dips.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
no. ure upset others are jacked without doing it and ure seething
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
I lift for myself not for others. I'm happy with benching bodyweight then doing weighted chest dips, I'd be missing out on a ton of gains not doing bench. In fact bench is so good I do close grip when I train arms and it lights up my triceps like no other exercise. When you're ready to do the big boy exercises again try a wider grip and learn the form properly, whoever is saying your form is good is lying to you bro even beginner lifters can bench without shoulder pain.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
anyone can bench your skinny ass without pain thats not the discussion nt tho
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
you replaced benching with dips lil bro, you're claiming it's a bad exercise when you can't even do it properly.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
ripptoe himself stated dips are superior to bench, but that he didn't include them in his book because it's too difficult of an exercise to progress on due to a bunch of reasons. you can read it on his forum if you google around
that said he wouldn't suggest barbell benchpress is bad for you, obviously. but you're right, and others here are wrong, in so far that if you don't have a coach+spotter to be with you until you perfect bench then it's not a good exercise due to the fact you will injure yourself if even 1 thing is off once you progress 3pl+ for reps. bench is higher risk than any other lift, and it's extremely technical (if you don't think it is, you suck dick at bench). guys easily get to 300lb+ on steroids with bad form and bust themselves non-stop. statistically it causes most injuries. so while thats the lifters own fault, it also means it shouldnt be used by beginners or people just wanting to look good... especially when they could have just done dips and got superior gains and never needed to bother with injuries
i have heard of guys busting their sternum on weighted dips, but im not sure how you'd do that exactly. ripptoe even said he hurt himself on a close grip dip in that same thread im referring to, but he didnt give any details around it. i can dip extremely heavy weight lower than you are supposed to and have no issues, but if i were to bench my 1rm without scapulas fully retracted i can guarantee i'd pop my shit and be out of the game for months, if not needing surgery too. so yea bench isnt worth it for most people. and yes benching is a cult and theyre like fentanyl Black folk and try to make you do it too. i love benching, but i totally agree with people when they say they dont bench. frick bench if you cant do it or dont have time to learn it, its not that big of a deal
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Idc if you do it or not, your shoulder tendons probably just aren't conditioned enough for the movement to feel right
Agreed. Weighted dips did not do much for my shoulders or pecs in a traditional bodybuilding sense but made my triceps and all the muscle around my chest/ribcage grow like crazy. Like I didn't grow pecs, I just grew a big chest if that makes sense.
>Like I didn't grow pecs, I just grew a big chest if that makes sense.
no it doesn't because pecs are the chest you fricking homo
stop typing if you have sub80iq
you learn forward. it activates both upper and lower pecs more than any other exercise that exists. incline bench in that same “study” hit middle pec just slightly more
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
u seem to be contradicting urself; so incline bench is slightly better than dips leaning forward?
Not him but after a bicep injury I realized they're the best for static bars. Chin-up grip gives you a good bicep contraction at the top but the bottom is in a weird position, pull-up grip is the opposite and also gives tons of people elbow pain. Neutral grip is a smooth ride.
weighted pull ups no question. u adjust the weight how u want
is right
You obviously pull full stack+every weight you can add to it right?
[...]
here are my lats. i pull stack for reps. the machine is good for one arm pulldowns thats a good exercise, you are still cucked with adding weight - dependant on the mechine
I think you've just got a poor sense of kinesthetic awareness with regard to your lats by not being able to feel them on weighted pullups. But that doesn't matter because in your case they're still getting activated & you've grown a big back from them.
Other people just get confused reading your post because for them, with their kinesthetic awareness, they can't imagine doing pull-ups and not feeling them in their lats unless their form was way off, but that's just them.
Pulldowns are more stable, most gyms have a cable machine and 2.5lbs plate to progressively overload it, not everyone have a dip belt, also your weight fluctuation/clothing impacts the progress in pullups.
>more stable
Dyel? >not everyone has a dip belt >$20 >your weight/clothing yap yap yap
You’re just a salty fatass that can’t even manage his own bw lmao
behind the neck press IS a basic exercise moron, I do it as my main overhead lift. thats like saying incline bench is moronic and stick to flat bench, its got all the same benefits with slight differences, just pick one and stick to it baka
if i sit straight like that and just pull straight down my shoulders hurt like frick, i have to lean pretty far back to do it w/o pain. whats that mean
I do pull-ups most of the time. I think it’s INCREDIBLY underrated how much focus and practice it takes to actually build the mind muscle connection enough to actually make pull-ups a lat dominant exercise. Especially with weight added. It’s crazy to me how guys will add 45+ pounds and not take the time to self reflect that they have zero lat development. So from that point of view I’m going to say lat pull downs. Seems to be easier for most people to actually hit the lats.
>If you don't ''''''feeeeelllllll'''''' it in the muscle then it's not getting worked
Christ I hate gays like you. I'll keep doing my pull ups with 100lbs+. My lats have developed just fine and I've never once 'felt' it in my lats.
>does bench press >can't feel it in my chest >oh well it doesn't ackshaully matter if i feel it in the prime mover or not!
if you don't at least feel the fatigue in your lats after the set, you're doing something wrong.
>you're doing something wrong
Yeah I'm confident I mog the frick out of you on pull ups so no I don't think I'm doing something wrong. I know that repping 100lbs on pull ups requires lat strength, even if I never felt it on any particular day, I knew that over time they would grow. According to your logic, I should not have any development in my lats because I never feel it there, and yet, shocker of shocker, they're one of my most well developed muscles because I do pull ups all the time.
I'm willing to concede that if you're trying to be a bodybuilder then hyper focusing and trying to isolate one specific muscle is more optimal but the idea that you won't develop a muscle unless you feel it is just moronic.
i am that anon. i think we just have a misunderstanding. i just don't get how you don't feel your lats. i feel them doing only bw pull ups. after the set is done my lats feel pumped and i can notice how they move my arm because they're fatigued.
it's just as ridiculous as saying >i've never once felt my quads working, but i have a 500lb squat so they clearly are strong!
like what? how is it possible to be that strong with absolutely no conscious connection to the muscle? you've never just sat there and flexed your lats before?
I have plenty of connection to my muscles, there's a lot of neural activation and focus going on to hit heavy sets on anything, and I can flex my lats. But when I'm done doing pull ups, whether it's for strength or conditioning, my lats don't feel tired, at least not the way that my quads might if I hit the quad extension machine. But again, that's clearly not a requirement for a muscle to grow. Might be better for bodybuilding, but I'm not a bodybuilder.
I don't care about my lats. I don't even know what lats are. I know they're a group of muscles in the back but I don't know which one lol. I just like pull-ups
>make pull-ups a lat dominant exercise
If you are pulling your elbows towards your torso, you are using your lats.
There is no possible way to not use your lats if you do a pull-up through the full range of motion correctly. Go try biceps curling your own body weight for a set of 10.
>There is no possible way to not use your lats
When i do pullups the tricep longbranch takes over my weak lats.
Doing pullups made my tric decent, no lats.
To activate lats i do dick-to-bar (see toes-to-bar) on ring neutral grip.
Sounds like bullshit but whatever.
I feel my lats when I do any type of pull-up, pull-down or bent over row while pulling towards my waist. Shit, I feel my lats when I am doing deadlifts. I'm also disproportionally strong at these lifts but I never thought about activating this or that, just progressing the lifts. Coincidentally my lats and back in general is also my best body part. The "mind muscle" connection came after when I became strong enough that subtle changes in form or doing another variation of the lift became relevant.
Why do people ego lift so hard on pull-ups? Pull-ups are actually pretty hard on your joints, specifically your elbows. If you make them arm dominant like most people do you’re going to put a lot of pressure on the inside of your elbows. If you really pull with the lats you can feel the force being more evenly distributed. You will rarely see a guy with good back development doing weighted pull-ups or sets of 20+. A lot of bodybuilders even use the assisted pull-up machine.
This is why you go and add jackknife pull ups to your routine.
I can do 10kg pull ups at 85kg and sets of 8 with bw but I wasnt getting stronger or growing. Started adding assisted pull ups and my lats started growing.
What's important with back is using it with good mind muscle connection and for more volume than your legs, and chest.
My best back workouts started when I added jackknife pull ups, I used to go to the gym, do 6 sets to failure (in total) for horizontal and vertical pulley machines but I was able to do pull ups just fine when I came back home. Right now, if I workout my back I'm done until my next workout, pull ups double in intensity because I actually worked out correctly.
to grow back point being: >mind muscle connection (usually achieved with lower intensities) >strict form >5+ sets of 10+ reps
Pull ups are overall better for strength and size, pull downs are better for purely hypertrophy and ofcourse you can get stronger with pulldowns too but for strength pull ups are better because it requires core engagement wich you can't do with pulldowns.
Idk I think a lot of guys think dumbbells are better for chest. You usually see bodybuilders doing dumbbell press or smith machine, flat barbell press seems to be a lot less common. It’s easier to isolate the lats on pulldowns. Pull-ups are a lot more complex than they’re given credit for and people typically end up barely using their lats
Dumbbells *are* better for chest because the main anatomical function of the pecs is to move the arm closer to the chest. When you bench with a bar your arms are fixed in position and can't move closer to each other so the pec is less involved. When you dumbbell bench your arms will naturally move closer to your chest. I'm too drunk to type this out as good as I could but put one hand on your pec and use the other arm to mimic a barbell bench motion and feel how much your pec flexes. Now do the same but with a dumbbell bench motion and see how much more your pec flexes. I think the only reason people barbell bench is because it's convenient (you have struts to hold the barbell) than dumbbell bench and you can add a lot more weight. But if you're looking for maximum pec development dumbbell bench is the way to go.
You just explained why wide grip bench builds chest better, your pecs are still trying to pull your arms inwards at the top rom. Not saying dumbell isn't good, just why you should bench wide if you're trying to hit pecs
Why do people ego lift so hard on pull-ups? Pull-ups are actually pretty hard on your joints, specifically your elbows. If you make them arm dominant like most people do you’re going to put a lot of pressure on the inside of your elbows. If you really pull with the lats you can feel the force being more evenly distributed. You will rarely see a guy with good back development doing weighted pull-ups or sets of 20+. A lot of bodybuilders even use the assisted pull-up machine.
>No, I don't want to put any stress on my fragile little joints, I might hurt myself
You sound like a massive homosexual and anyone doing assisted pullups is a complete joke.
This was me 6 months ago. Practice it twice a week and before you know it you'll be doing full sets of 5. August last year I couldn't do one pull up, now I can do 15-20 pull ups depending on how I'm feeling. Barely anyone at my casual gym does pull ups so always feels like a mog when I'm doing them.
the pulldown machine in my gym has the most stupid weight increments, goes from 4-5 kg per step from 20-68kg but the next step after 68 is 77, 86 etc like homie what the frick
i try to do lat pulldown with overhand and underhand and chinups and pullups but im fat and still somewhat weak so i can only do 6 chinups and like 3-4 clean pullups
love doing them though
It doesn't fricking matter. I use pulldown machines when bulking and weighted pullups when cutting because that way I can progress on reps and weight at all times.
seconded, after 6 months of that i can do 3 x 20 bw pullups easily. One day i looked down and realized my shadow had changed and was surprised to find i had grown lats without really noticing.
Depends on what you're trying to do. For bodybuilding and certain sports pulldowns are better because you can target specific back muscles. Otherwise I'd probably say pullups are better: they get harder the more you weigh
Weighted pull-ups next question
That's it. Thanks. Thread over.
Weighted neutral grip chinups. The only reason they aren't considered one of the "big 4" (should be big 5) is because of fatasses.
same for dips. replaced benching with weighted dips and unironically got huge
What kind of volume and intensity did you do for dips?
initially i switched from 2pl 5x5 to something like 35lb dips
bench fricks up my shoulders and there is no amount of advice to correct it. my arms are very long and torsoe is short so i have to path to my bottom chest and if even 1 of any 10 things goes wrong i lost a week of progress at least due to pain and then i fricking sleep on my side so my shit gets fricked up at night too. struggling with that dumb frick exercise for 0 reason when i dont compete is braindead. dips no such issue, and chest finally got heavily involved and grew fast
pullups are amazing too but i ohp heavily and alternate heavy dips so i dont have a place for them really. id rather hit pecs more than lats i guess ultimately
Skill issue, I got long lanky arms and all that too, still managed to achieve a 3 plate bench. Guarantee you had a wide grip, people who complain about pain on bench always do. Should have also supplemented with dumbbell bench and ohp.
>dumb frick exercise
You need to learn to bench better, don't blame the exercise. It's a lot more than just laying on a bench and unracking. You need to setup your back properly and find the right grip for your frame
ive already done all this, my form is good and others say its good. doesnt matter my shoulders are in pain
see what a bunch of israelites you are about it? you cant help but push it on people even though it doesnt matter. like heroine addicts
I get you man. I also have long arms and bench press was giving me issues in shoulders as well. But I found out about this neutral/talon grip on a youtube video and that shifted the slight load on shoulders to upper chest and triceps instead. I'd give a try to weighted dips as well.
weighted dips is what i replaced bench with, been fine since and never lost a day to injury. bench is a israeli psyop and 90% of guys that think its fine will frick themselves later too. only takes one bad set. terrible exercise regardless of how well you do it
Your shoulder position or form is bad if you're feeling benching on your shoulders. I have long arms too and I've never injured myself benching nor do I ever feel them on my shoulders unless the weight is too heavy. Keep your shoulders back and they won't round and cause you discomfort... you could also adjust your grip wider but either way blaming bench or "replacing" a easily overloaded compound like bench is DYEL behaviour. You should be doing bench AND weighted dips.
no. ure upset others are jacked without doing it and ure seething
I lift for myself not for others. I'm happy with benching bodyweight then doing weighted chest dips, I'd be missing out on a ton of gains not doing bench. In fact bench is so good I do close grip when I train arms and it lights up my triceps like no other exercise. When you're ready to do the big boy exercises again try a wider grip and learn the form properly, whoever is saying your form is good is lying to you bro even beginner lifters can bench without shoulder pain.
anyone can bench your skinny ass without pain thats not the discussion nt tho
you replaced benching with dips lil bro, you're claiming it's a bad exercise when you can't even do it properly.
ripptoe himself stated dips are superior to bench, but that he didn't include them in his book because it's too difficult of an exercise to progress on due to a bunch of reasons. you can read it on his forum if you google around
that said he wouldn't suggest barbell benchpress is bad for you, obviously. but you're right, and others here are wrong, in so far that if you don't have a coach+spotter to be with you until you perfect bench then it's not a good exercise due to the fact you will injure yourself if even 1 thing is off once you progress 3pl+ for reps. bench is higher risk than any other lift, and it's extremely technical (if you don't think it is, you suck dick at bench). guys easily get to 300lb+ on steroids with bad form and bust themselves non-stop. statistically it causes most injuries. so while thats the lifters own fault, it also means it shouldnt be used by beginners or people just wanting to look good... especially when they could have just done dips and got superior gains and never needed to bother with injuries
i have heard of guys busting their sternum on weighted dips, but im not sure how you'd do that exactly. ripptoe even said he hurt himself on a close grip dip in that same thread im referring to, but he didnt give any details around it. i can dip extremely heavy weight lower than you are supposed to and have no issues, but if i were to bench my 1rm without scapulas fully retracted i can guarantee i'd pop my shit and be out of the game for months, if not needing surgery too. so yea bench isnt worth it for most people. and yes benching is a cult and theyre like fentanyl Black folk and try to make you do it too. i love benching, but i totally agree with people when they say they dont bench. frick bench if you cant do it or dont have time to learn it, its not that big of a deal
Idc if you do it or not, your shoulder tendons probably just aren't conditioned enough for the movement to feel right
>My shoulders are fricked
Facepulls and band stretches homie
T. fricked up right shoulder
>unironically got huge
wow it would be crazy if you got huge ironically
>anon after he ironically gets huge
Agreed. Weighted dips did not do much for my shoulders or pecs in a traditional bodybuilding sense but made my triceps and all the muscle around my chest/ribcage grow like crazy. Like I didn't grow pecs, I just grew a big chest if that makes sense.
>Like I didn't grow pecs, I just grew a big chest if that makes sense.
no it doesn't because pecs are the chest you fricking homo
stop typing if you have sub80iq
There is a dip position that hits the chest.
which one?
you learn forward. it activates both upper and lower pecs more than any other exercise that exists. incline bench in that same “study” hit middle pec just slightly more
u seem to be contradicting urself; so incline bench is slightly better than dips leaning forward?
aren't dips only for triceps?
Pull-ups are objectively superior to lat pulldowns in every way possible.
Why neutral grip per se?
Not him but after a bicep injury I realized they're the best for static bars. Chin-up grip gives you a good bicep contraction at the top but the bottom is in a weird position, pull-up grip is the opposite and also gives tons of people elbow pain. Neutral grip is a smooth ride.
Neutral is the most comfortable for the majority of people and gives the best even distribution of stimulus between the brachials, biceps, and back
pulldown is a dyel machine
You obviously pull full stack+every weight you can add to it right?
weighted pull ups no question. u adjust the weight how u want
is right
here are my lats. i pull stack for reps. the machine is good for one arm pulldowns thats a good exercise, you are still cucked with adding weight - dependant on the mechine
I don't usually say this but you should get a tan, that looks like raw chicken
great back but why do you pose like a dyel zoomer? Learn how to pose properly
nice back, homie
I think you've just got a poor sense of kinesthetic awareness with regard to your lats by not being able to feel them on weighted pullups. But that doesn't matter because in your case they're still getting activated & you've grown a big back from them.
Other people just get confused reading your post because for them, with their kinesthetic awareness, they can't imagine doing pull-ups and not feeling them in their lats unless their form was way off, but that's just them.
Gear? That's some crazy back development for a chick. Goddamn
Yujiro would be proud.
>every day is lat day
Good lats but a serious lack of overall symmetry.
gymcels really think looking like this will get them laid lmao
I gotta give it to pulldowns. The unintentional swinging of the chain once you move to weighted pullups is very annoying & pulldowns eliminate that.
Behind the neck wide grip pullups superset with OHP.
Pulldowns are more stable, most gyms have a cable machine and 2.5lbs plate to progressively overload it, not everyone have a dip belt, also your weight fluctuation/clothing impacts the progress in pullups.
behind the neck is a meme, stick to basics
>more stable
Dyel?
>not everyone has a dip belt
>$20
>your weight/clothing yap yap yap
You’re just a salty fatass that can’t even manage his own bw lmao
behind the neck press IS a basic exercise moron, I do it as my main overhead lift. thats like saying incline bench is moronic and stick to flat bench, its got all the same benefits with slight differences, just pick one and stick to it baka
Glad to see another reeves chad
behind the neck pull ups = gay
regular pull ups superset with ohp = based
I do chin ups staggersetted with arnold press.
pure autism
Crazy as I don’t think you do any of these.
I'm a fat Black person at the moment, but once I stop being a big fat Black person and become a chad I prefer pull ups.
if i sit straight like that and just pull straight down my shoulders hurt like frick, i have to lean pretty far back to do it w/o pain. whats that mean
Same anon. It means machines are fricking gay and inhuman. Do bodyweight and free weights as the gods intended and ignore all the cabletards.
NEVER GOON
is it OK if I get a femboys butthole to goon my wiener?
Oh yes that sounds good
Probably shoulder impingement or internal rotation
what do you do about that on lat pulldown? leaning back sometimes helps but not always
that means you have AIDS, sorry bud
do both
I do pull-ups most of the time. I think it’s INCREDIBLY underrated how much focus and practice it takes to actually build the mind muscle connection enough to actually make pull-ups a lat dominant exercise. Especially with weight added. It’s crazy to me how guys will add 45+ pounds and not take the time to self reflect that they have zero lat development. So from that point of view I’m going to say lat pull downs. Seems to be easier for most people to actually hit the lats.
Maybe they're just not so obsessed with vanity like yourself.
>If you don't ''''''feeeeelllllll'''''' it in the muscle then it's not getting worked
Christ I hate gays like you. I'll keep doing my pull ups with 100lbs+. My lats have developed just fine and I've never once 'felt' it in my lats.
>does bench press
>can't feel it in my chest
>oh well it doesn't ackshaully matter if i feel it in the prime mover or not!
if you don't at least feel the fatigue in your lats after the set, you're doing something wrong.
>you're doing something wrong
Yeah I'm confident I mog the frick out of you on pull ups so no I don't think I'm doing something wrong. I know that repping 100lbs on pull ups requires lat strength, even if I never felt it on any particular day, I knew that over time they would grow. According to your logic, I should not have any development in my lats because I never feel it there, and yet, shocker of shocker, they're one of my most well developed muscles because I do pull ups all the time.
I'm willing to concede that if you're trying to be a bodybuilder then hyper focusing and trying to isolate one specific muscle is more optimal but the idea that you won't develop a muscle unless you feel it is just moronic.
Cringe you care so much what a random anon said to you lol. You alright anon?
Not him, but you're wrong. I'd explain it better, but I'm sure it would be a waste of my time
Also this
i am that anon. i think we just have a misunderstanding. i just don't get how you don't feel your lats. i feel them doing only bw pull ups. after the set is done my lats feel pumped and i can notice how they move my arm because they're fatigued.
it's just as ridiculous as saying
>i've never once felt my quads working, but i have a 500lb squat so they clearly are strong!
like what? how is it possible to be that strong with absolutely no conscious connection to the muscle? you've never just sat there and flexed your lats before?
I have plenty of connection to my muscles, there's a lot of neural activation and focus going on to hit heavy sets on anything, and I can flex my lats. But when I'm done doing pull ups, whether it's for strength or conditioning, my lats don't feel tired, at least not the way that my quads might if I hit the quad extension machine. But again, that's clearly not a requirement for a muscle to grow. Might be better for bodybuilding, but I'm not a bodybuilder.
I don't care about my lats. I don't even know what lats are. I know they're a group of muscles in the back but I don't know which one lol. I just like pull-ups
>make pull-ups a lat dominant exercise
If you are pulling your elbows towards your torso, you are using your lats.
There is no possible way to not use your lats if you do a pull-up through the full range of motion correctly. Go try biceps curling your own body weight for a set of 10.
>There is no possible way to not use your lats
When i do pullups the tricep longbranch takes over my weak lats.
Doing pullups made my tric decent, no lats.
To activate lats i do dick-to-bar (see toes-to-bar) on ring neutral grip.
Sounds like bullshit but whatever.
I feel my lats when I do any type of pull-up, pull-down or bent over row while pulling towards my waist. Shit, I feel my lats when I am doing deadlifts. I'm also disproportionally strong at these lifts but I never thought about activating this or that, just progressing the lifts. Coincidentally my lats and back in general is also my best body part. The "mind muscle" connection came after when I became strong enough that subtle changes in form or doing another variation of the lift became relevant.
>If you are pulling your elbows towards your torso, you are using your lats.
Train the muscle, not the movemente. homosexual dyel
>t. homosexual dyel
nice to meet you
This is why you go and add jackknife pull ups to your routine.
I can do 10kg pull ups at 85kg and sets of 8 with bw but I wasnt getting stronger or growing. Started adding assisted pull ups and my lats started growing.
What's important with back is using it with good mind muscle connection and for more volume than your legs, and chest.
My best back workouts started when I added jackknife pull ups, I used to go to the gym, do 6 sets to failure (in total) for horizontal and vertical pulley machines but I was able to do pull ups just fine when I came back home. Right now, if I workout my back I'm done until my next workout, pull ups double in intensity because I actually worked out correctly.
to grow back point being:
>mind muscle connection (usually achieved with lower intensities)
>strict form
>5+ sets of 10+ reps
Chin-ups entirely solve this issue and you get bicep gains
Left
But I'm doing right because I'm too weak and heavy for left
I need to lose a few pounds before pull ups becomes viable to me, can't wait
Pull ups are overall better for strength and size, pull downs are better for purely hypertrophy and ofcourse you can get stronger with pulldowns too but for strength pull ups are better because it requires core engagement wich you can't do with pulldowns.
>start back day with weighted pull-ups
>end with pulldown drop sets
pulldown is better if you like cheating
pulldown is better if you don't like cheating
Machine of course
>easy to choose the right resistance
>approach failure with control across multiple sets
pull ups are not reliable since its harder to track and your weight may vary
Pullups are better obviously, but they're also way too hard so I stick to rows and pulldowns.
On paper, pull-ups are better
On paper, flat barbell bench press is better
In real world, the pull-down and dumbbell press build my muscles way better
Thats all I need to know
Le science can suck my penis
Idk I think a lot of guys think dumbbells are better for chest. You usually see bodybuilders doing dumbbell press or smith machine, flat barbell press seems to be a lot less common. It’s easier to isolate the lats on pulldowns. Pull-ups are a lot more complex than they’re given credit for and people typically end up barely using their lats
Dumbbells *are* better for chest because the main anatomical function of the pecs is to move the arm closer to the chest. When you bench with a bar your arms are fixed in position and can't move closer to each other so the pec is less involved. When you dumbbell bench your arms will naturally move closer to your chest. I'm too drunk to type this out as good as I could but put one hand on your pec and use the other arm to mimic a barbell bench motion and feel how much your pec flexes. Now do the same but with a dumbbell bench motion and see how much more your pec flexes. I think the only reason people barbell bench is because it's convenient (you have struts to hold the barbell) than dumbbell bench and you can add a lot more weight. But if you're looking for maximum pec development dumbbell bench is the way to go.
You just explained why wide grip bench builds chest better, your pecs are still trying to pull your arms inwards at the top rom. Not saying dumbell isn't good, just why you should bench wide if you're trying to hit pecs
Why do people ego lift so hard on pull-ups? Pull-ups are actually pretty hard on your joints, specifically your elbows. If you make them arm dominant like most people do you’re going to put a lot of pressure on the inside of your elbows. If you really pull with the lats you can feel the force being more evenly distributed. You will rarely see a guy with good back development doing weighted pull-ups or sets of 20+. A lot of bodybuilders even use the assisted pull-up machine.
>No, I don't want to put any stress on my fragile little joints, I might hurt myself
You sound like a massive homosexual and anyone doing assisted pullups is a complete joke.
This
Pullups are based and op is a homosexual as per the usual
>A lot of bodybuilders even use the assisted pull-up machine.
that's because they can't do regular pull-ups
>you’re going to put a lot of pressure on the inside of your elbows
My right elbow is fricked because of this. I now have to do pulldowns due to it.
I do negative pull ups because I'm a pussy. I can barely do 3 regulars while standing on the ground between reps.
This was me 6 months ago. Practice it twice a week and before you know it you'll be doing full sets of 5. August last year I couldn't do one pull up, now I can do 15-20 pull ups depending on how I'm feeling. Barely anyone at my casual gym does pull ups so always feels like a mog when I'm doing them.
I do pulldowns as a warmup and then do pullups
For me it's picrel, these are the only ones where I feel my lats
you do both
what are you, stupid
anyone else get anxiety from pull ups?
I get anxiety and fear about every lift I do.
pullups into Pulldown dropsets
I prefer the machine. By the time I hit my lats my routine is almost done and I’m to tired for pull-ups.
the pulldown machine in my gym has the most stupid weight increments, goes from 4-5 kg per step from 20-68kg but the next step after 68 is 77, 86 etc like homie what the frick
i try to do lat pulldown with overhand and underhand and chinups and pullups but im fat and still somewhat weak so i can only do 6 chinups and like 3-4 clean pullups
love doing them though
Just do both, they both have their benefits.
I can only do 8-10 pullups so couple sets of pullups and then pulldown
Start with pulldowns.
Continue with pullups once you are able to do them with proper form.
End with climbing walls.
Simple as.
Do both but pullups are god tier, especially weighted ones. Slow down the concentric and you'll hammer your lats.
I only see DYELs do pullups but only jacked dudes do pulldowns
Ah yes. Pullups. The Queen of upper body exercises (Dips are the King). Separates the IST from the power/fat/
It doesn't fricking matter. I use pulldown machines when bulking and weighted pullups when cutting because that way I can progress on reps and weight at all times.
Pull ups
Im derailing this thread. Which diameter is better for a pullup bar. 1 inch or 1 inch 1/4 ??
modes ban him he posted nsfw
grip can limit your back development, so I recommend the thinner one and to workout the grip separately
The smaller the better, so 1 inch.
>pull up
>dangerous ego lift with high potential for injury
>lat pulldowns
>safe movement that allows you to move the most weight
You decide
>high potential for injury
Explain. Squat, bench, deadlift have all injured me but never pull-ups
pull ups and bands for drop sets. machines are gay
seconded, after 6 months of that i can do 3 x 20 bw pullups easily. One day i looked down and realized my shadow had changed and was surprised to find i had grown lats without really noticing.
picture says it all, chicks use the cable and men do the pull ups
Rowing is better than either for complete back development, enjoy having a hollow back if you don't take your horizontal pull seriously
The fact that one depicts a man performing while the other depicts a woman should tell you everything.
you can adjust the movement path and load on the pulldown way better
i do both though
I do both
i hate pull-ups so much. can't even do 3x5 negatives it's so demoralizing. everything else goes up but this shit...nothing
Which one is harder?
cant do pullups yet unfortunately so im stuck with lat pulldowns. ill get there eventually
Your mom
>Your mom
COBSISSIES WHATS THIS??? GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEG
hmm
>captcha: 400P0
I came here to check on you
Witnessed
Helllll yea
cringe post
kys gay
I don't really know
>dude which is better push ups or knee pushups
obviously push ups why would you even consider the progression exercise if you can do the real thing?
Depends on what you're trying to do. For bodybuilding and certain sports pulldowns are better because you can target specific back muscles. Otherwise I'd probably say pullups are better: they get harder the more you weigh
I always feel lat pulldowns in my forearms more than back, with pull ups i feel like im actually working my back