?t=3406
>40-50 grams of protein per meal, anything in excess becomes worked into something else
>you literally get fat on it
>intermittent fasting on 2 meals a day is guaranteed muscle loss
>the only way for intermittent fasting to work is 3+ meals after the fast and they have to be high protein
>autophagy that prevents cancer may or may not trigger at 20 hours of fasting
>intermittent fasting benefits are put into question
Intermittent fasting, bros .... we lost
from my own research keto makes more sense on the long run
Kys Moxyte
still not your boyfriend
>Seed oils are good
>is probably a paid astroturfer
>is gay
>vegan stuff
What?
A keto diet person or anyone saying industrial seed oils are poorly processed by the body and disrupt metabolism are objectively correct. I know it’s just a propaganda meme but if you want to paint someone in bad light don’t mention that they used to be a firefighter.
T. Religious 18 hour faster guy, 4-6 days a month.
He doesn't reject keto, but makes a solid point - if you combine it with intermittent fasting and only do 2 meals a day, then you will not grow. If the meals are overly rich in protein 50+ , then you are turning good protein into fat.
perhaps, but I don't care about fat as I'm not fat. I only care about the longevity aspect. and personally I find IF to be extremely difficult. you have to go through a metabolic switch every single day (from glycosis to ketosis). I find that 12-16 hours are the hardest following my last meal. but I seriously doubt OMAD works well for longevity as you barely enter autophagy. you would need alternate day fasting or even longer periods to really tap into cell renewal. on the other hand in keto you are basically constantly in ketosis, there's no metabolic switch, hGH is constantly high, IGF-1 is constantly low, it's not periodic like in IF
True. It just explains why some, like in the meme:
get fat on Keto and fasting.
>get fat on keto and fasting
Lmao you vegans are funny.
I'm mostly mocking people who fast and pretend they can build muscle in case you fail to grasp it. The unholy combo of keto + fasting is a terrible meme for anyone looking to build muscle.
Yes. A true dork, but he gets decent guests on.
>Really this stuff is getting into the nuances of these topics and isn't really useful information for the average person that wants to get fit and look better.
Yes but the topic is about intermittent fasting, which is a niche within the fitness world, despite being relatively popular lately.
>You don't need to maximize your protein timing / intake unless you're competing
Yes for the average person. But here we are talking about a fasting person, who has a 4-8 hours max time window to get his daily food. The rest of the time he is fasting.
The meal situation becomes very complex then, and these are at least 3 big meals at nighttime, which will affect sleep.
If intermittent fasting is how you can lose weight, then you should do it, get to your target weight as fast as possible, then maintain.
IF is not going to cause muscle loss acutely, only if you do it chronically. If you are eating your protein target over 2 meals, you are likely reaping most of the benefit of protein. You are not minmaxing protein, but you are getting a benefit from it.
The real question is just timeframe. The longer you spend in an unfed state, the more catabolic you will become and your body will adapt to that. There's also bodyfat to consider. If you are over, say 18% bodyfat, none of this really matters to you, only when you get into the low teens of bodyfat is where you really have to pay attention to maxing out everything to keep your muscles growing or rather not losing while on a deficit.
There's a lot of nuance to this and this just isn't able to be parsed in an interview like this.
>I'm mostly mocking people who fast and pretend they can build muscle in case you fail to grasp it.
Martin Berkhan and Leangains?
You’re not seriously thinking that some grifter getting fat means —> fasting makes you fat, are you?
Like abstaining from eating for a long period of time on 0 calories will make you fat? Is fat paranormal?
well yud proved that it's possible, yes
Wasn't this the moron who ate a load of "keto" goyslop in order to "enter ketosis faster"? I really wouldn't use him as an accurate metric for keto.
how else are you going to get into ketosis?
eat real food for fricks sake
Oh lord, you believe that there’s literally a supernatural force that will cause keto people to gain fat even on a ketogenic caloric maintenance level and with exercise?
It doesn’t occur to you that the grifter might being eating in caloric surplus and that keto is irrelevant to the weight gain?
It does occur to them but they post these nobody grifters anyways because they have no real argument.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19641727/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6371871/#:~:text=Ketogenic%20diets%20can%20help%20patients,10%20kg%20with%20any%20diet.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7641470/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2690585/
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/0003-4819-140-10-200405180-00007
yud tanked his bmr after doing excessive fasting to the point where he'd gain weight on a supposedly maintenance calories, there's a picture of him topless that'd be guaranteed to make you puke, basically no muscle mass whatsoever
this guys seems completely out of touch with reality. He's supposed to be some genius but you're telling me his body defies the laws of physics? Either this isn't the full story and he's making shit up, or you're making shit up
i think what the anon you're replying to meant is that the aftereffect of fasting can make you easily gain fat, this was him at his leanest btw, you can see the nonexistent lean mass
wasn't yud on an extended psmf on this pic? how the frick did he lose all his muscle mass then?
Tom Bilyeu must be the biggest dork ever to enter the Youtube podcasting space.
iirc Attia thinks that IF destroys muscle based on some DEXA scans they did on few of his patients, but doesn't mention that dexa scans are know to be unreliable
imho it's BS. Studies have shown, that the most important factor is total daily protein intake, spacing and size of the meals is unimportant.
>spacing and size of the meals is unimportant
What kind of tool do you have to be to believe this ?
Go ahead, eat a 150 g protein meal in a single sitting. You'd be turning great protein into fat and not building any muscle.
It's fricking moronic. All the bodybuilders know meal times and meal size is important, yet some numbskull comes along to argue otherwise.
DEXA scans can be unreliable because they cannot discern water. IF may reduce sodium intake and thus water retention which can produce a false reading on a DEXA scan where you probably lost water vs losing muscle mass, there's also timeframe as well, I didn't watch the video so if it was after a few months of IF and they lost the muscle mass, there might be something there, but if you use IF acutely to lose some weight, you probably won't see a decrease in muscle mass.
Furthermore with the protein thing, your body will use the protein you give it, it just won't use it for muscle protein synthesis over a certain amount per meal, which is why you want to space your protein out as much as you can, but protein intake is not as important as a lot of people that sell protein supplements will tell you. Resistance exercise leads to the greatest stimulus to build muscle. You don't need to maximize your protein timing / intake unless you're competing. As long as you're not eating all your protein in one meal, you're likely reaping a lot of benefit from it if you are consuming at least 100-150g a day over at least 2 meals preferably more.
Really this stuff is getting into the nuances of these topics and isn't really useful information for the average person that wants to get fit and look better. These things are like 5-10% of the issue. Consistent exercise and consistent sleep with consistent eating prioritizing protein is what is going to produce the vast majority of results for people.
>Furthermore with the protein thing, your body will use the protein you give it, it just won't use it for muscle protein synthesis over a certain amount per meal, which is why you want to space your protein out as much as you can, but protein intake is not as important as a lot of people that sell protein supplements will tell you.
This is broscience myth that I keep hearing everywhere, but actual studies shown that this isn't true.
Total daily protein intake is only important metric. If it's in 2 meals, 3 meals, or 6 meals is irrelevant.
t. guy who shits his protein out
It's so moronic just from an evolutionary standpoint
>heh nice protein bro but you already ate some already so I'll just shit it all out
Also, there are many other processes in the body that need protein than MPS so it's not like there's nothing else to do with it.
What is needed for survival vs what is optimal for maximum growth are two different things. Your body will certainly use the protein, it's not going to waste it, but muscles are very low priority in terms of protein partitioning. Your muscles can only grow at about .5 - 2 lbs a month. That's about 900 grams total of protein a month that's partitioned towards muscle growth, so what 4-9 days depending on your intake, the other 20-24 days of the month your body is using protein for other purposes.
For muscle growth it’s best to space protein across 3 or more meals.
For fat loss it’s best to fast or — low carbohydrates high protein, high water
Protein intake above 0.7g/pound is not proven to be athletically beneficial. So a 150 lb man should get around 105 grams of protein to optimize, and a 200lb man should get 140g of protein to optimize.
>Protein intake above 0.7g/pound is not proven to be athletically beneficial.
t. Rectum et al
That’s not athletic performance.
You are correct that it can aid in fat loss.
This is a different but relevant bit of info for losers not gainers. I’m a gainer — (started my fitness journey from skinny attempting to bulk up a bit but then getting kidnapped by strength cultists and I gave up bulking)
t. 170lbs fit guy
You're still just talking out of your moronic butthole
>The American College of Sports Medicine recommends 1.2–1.7 grams of protein per kilogram, or 0.5 to 0.8 grams per pound, of body weight per day, for active individuals who want to increase muscle mass.1
>According to the International Society of Sports Nutrition, strength athletes and resistance-trained individuals who want to build muscle should aim for at least 1.4–2.0 g protein/kg (0.65–0.91 grams per pound) body weight/day.2
>Finally, a systematic review published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine finds that 1.6–2.2 grams of protein per kg (0.7–1 gram per pound) of body weight per day optimize gains in muscle mass.3
>1st source supports what he said,
>2nd source puts his value in the healthy range,
>3rd source puts his value in the healthy range
? Are you agreeing with him or
Also wouldn’t athletics performance need to be the metric, is this data even relevant?
intake above 0.7g/pound is not proven to be athletically beneficial.
>t. Rectum et al
That graph is comparing 0.9g/kg with 2.5g/kg
But 0.7g/pound is 1.54g/kg
Can you show a graph comparing 1.54g/kg with 2.5g/kg to see if there is a difference between muscle gains?
>t. noticer
No chud,
The data is pretty clear that there’s a linear trend of growth as protein levels increase. I’m sure there’s a cap somewhere but it’s probably way higher like 2g/lb or something.
Thats fricking moronic, do you think your body is a moron? That it doesn't know when to/how to most efficiently process protein?
Do you think your body, which has only one motivation to consume and grow, cannot do it effectively when eating the same way hunter gatherers would have eaten?
I hate all these science mother frickers that bring in low population non standardized studies that cannot be replicated then claim it's settled "science".
At least with other religions, you know the truth. Your body is a divine creation that surpasses all of gods other creations through sheer power of will.
you're just too moronic to understand how the body works and how it partitions protein for muscle protein synthesis.
Here are modern hunter gatherers and their ripped fricking bodies. The fact that you don't understand the difference between survival and building muscle just shows what a fricking moron you are and you complaining about science because you're too fricking stupid to understand it is so god damn ironic and hilarious.
These homies aren't surviving shit, when they're not larping for natgeo photos they put their t-shirts on and go back to leeching off ytmans gibs
youre moronic
ive done omad all the way to 3/4/5
body builders spread out their meals because it's impossible to eat 8000 calories in 30 minutes
Meanwhile, I'm growing in muscle mass and losing fat doing keto OMAD, working out every day.
Nice try fatty. OMAD only works for weight loss
but he mentiones 1.6 for necessary protein. For 220 pound guy - 160 g protein daily.
How will you fit 160 in 2 meals without turning a lot of it into fat?
>Nice try fatty. OMAD only works for weight loss
NTA, but I do OMAD as well (convenient for my work) and I do gain muscle and my lifts do go up as well.
I'm sure it's not optimal for muscle gain, but heh, I don't care that much.
unlikely
how many meals, over what period of time ?
220 or 240 is what Peter Attia used for his example.
220-240 is obese for the normal size male, so I dont know why he used those weights as examples, either way you shouldn't be needing 160 grams of protein a day unless you're roiding and competing
i've been eating 140g protein pretty easily at 1500 calories. if i had another scoop of protein, it's still under 1700 calories. definitely doable and not particularly hard.
>How will you fit 160 in 2 meals without turning a lot of it into fat?
By eating at a caloric deficit. 220 lbs is very heavy for a guy, so you are likely either roiding or very fat to begin with and I'd argue that you should prioritize weight loss before you do anything with protein intake.
There really is no reason to be 220 unless you're competing in some way, you're just inviting health problems at that weight and if you're not getting paid to be at that weight, there's no reason to be at that weight.
go back, to reddit homosexual
do people still take longevity gurus like attia and david sinclair seriously?
Tbf Attia has basically given up on everything but exercise. He has stated that he has dropped keto, fasting, metformin and statins for himself over the past few years- if he ever actually did them, of course.
Big on a exhaustive battery of tests for those who pay $160K a year for his concierge medical service tho. He still likes throwing those people on various drugs (mostly TRT, no wonder they feel so good...) with the rest mostly being an incredibly pedantic and prescriptive exercise protocol.
He knows his audience and customers very well, panders to their neuroses, and has done an impressive job of hitching a ride on various bandwagons then jumping off in time.
I don't give a shit what some youtube Black person says. Total youtuber death.
All those studies about needing to space your protein were done on rested individuals
If your body has heightened MPS from exercise, you can use way more protein in one meal.
This is why some studies show 40g max, some show 70g...
If your exercise you can use probably 100g+
I'm also amazed that the 40-50g prescription apparently applies to 100lb women as much as 240lb men.
I'm just fasting to lose weight. I don't give a frick about the benefits of it
Attia is a literal dyel so who fricking cares what he says
>40-50 grams of protein per meal, anything in excess becomes worked into something else
stopped reading right here, but an absolute fricking moron
he's had protein researchers on his show, and that's about what they say for muscle protein synthesis, you also need at least 3g of leucine per meal to really stimulate it.
There's a difference between stimulating MPS and using protein for other bodily functions. This is what he means. You can consume as much protein per meal as your body wants, it will actually slow digestion to use it all up, but there's a max amount that it's going to use for MPS. People are just misinterpreting what exactly he's saying
clearly the dyels in this picture are experts on muscle loss if they ever had any to begin with lmao
Fasting just works. It's not starvation, it's using your body's fat stores. Fasting is the ultimate ketogenic experience.
Imagine fricking around with diets and restriction and starving yourself when you can *literally* get a script for Wegovy and just drop weight without thinking about it.
>nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, constipation, stomach (abdomen) pain, headache, tiredness (fatigue), upset stomach, dizziness, feeling bloated, belching, gas, stomach flu, heartburn, and runny nose or sore throat.
That's basically how GLP1 agonists work. They make you feel bloated and overstuffed when you eat, which makes fatties stop eating. Of course since they're artificially overcoming their fricked up hormonal response, they're not actually training their bodies and minds to stop being spiritually fat. So if they ever stop taking the expensive weekly injections, they'll balloon right back up.
Yeah, yeah, but enough about how I feel when my mother-in-law's in town, tell me about the drug!
I've been doing OMAD for years along with occasional prolonged fasts for a few days at a time as a form of "mini-cutting" when I want to lose a couple pounds. I've never been stronger or felt better in my life than I do now, and I can do 2/3/4/5. It just werks(TM) for me.
>40-50 grams of protein per meal, anything in excess becomes worked into something else
then only eat 40-50g in a meal and have 2 meals and a high protein snack, totally doable in an 8 hour eating window
>you literally get fat on it
you literally burn fat if you aren't a lazy gay and prompt some ampk (regardless of whether or not ur in keto or glucoblabla at the given time of training)
>intermittent fasting on 2 meals a day is guaranteed muscle loss
2 50g protein meals and high protein snacks can more than help you retain muscle and eating high protein over the span of 8 hours is anabolic as frick
>the only way for intermittent fasting to work is 3+ meals after the fast and they have to be high protein
they have to be high in cholesterol to precursor testosterone, the retention of lean mass is largely based on your hormonal makeup (good thing keto is largely animal fat and yolk)
>autophagy that prevents cancer may or may not trigger at 20 hours of fasting
again ampk can be triggered easily as frick to speed up anti cancer properties and also deplete glycogen to accelerate the onset of said properties
>intermittent fasting benefits are put into question
literally what question op? is the question why you watch these morons? or how about why so many morons are replying to this thread with their dogshit takes?
for reference i swamp like 200k+ lbs a week of frozen meat in a fricking frozen warehouse for work, energy demands are no question for me and mixing IF with keto has given sufficient animal fat and protein to recover from work, and sufficient nutrients to have the energy to perform said work. in about a year of on and offing with it, i've recomped from 236 high bf% to 180 statue status by just eating high protein frequently in my window and getting enough sleep, don't let people shake your faith in IF brother
Will he post body with timestamp though ?