I recently did bloodwork and found out that I likely inherited familial hypercholesterolemia, specifically elevated levels of overall cholesterol, LDL, and non-HDL cholesterol. This means that my doctor will likely recommend that I hop on statin medications just like many people in my family. Is statin dangerous in any way (endocrine inhibitor, nuerotoxicity, etc.)? What is the consensus among actual scientists regarding cholesterol, since I personally have a hard time believing that LDL is "bad" and HDL is "good"? What are the impacts of dietary choices, and are they negligible relative to my genetically high cholesterol? Thanks.
LDL is bad, though only modestly predictive of heart attacks. You should still try to lower it. HDL is not bad, but it appears largely correlational in cv risk- every drug that elevates HDL has failed to reduce cv risk.
You could try red yeast rice from cholestene, most other brands have been cucked by the FDA into removing the active ingredient
I will research cholestene, I've heard of it before.
Regarding lowering LDL, I have heard mixed things before, i.e. it is possible to lower via diet and exercise OR LDL is marginally affected by dietary choices (https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/dietary-cholesterol-does-not-matter#types) and is essentially irrelevant.
Many of the resources online seem to be targeted towards fatasses with a shit diet and little exercise, so I am not sure how much of it is really relevant. I am healthy bodyweight and bf percentage, 20 years old, and get high levels of physical activity. Additionally, while my diet is not optimal, it is still very good, especially compared to other people here in burgerland. Are there foods I should be including to combat LDL (if they exist)? I am not really thrilled about the idea of taking statins, since my father told me that he stopped taking them at one point due to lowered drive, so I am investigating other ways to lower my risk of cardiovascular disease without hopping on medication.
>it is possible to lower via diet and exercise
It is possible to lower. Reduce or eliminate food with high animal fats such as butter, whole milk (try nonfat instead) red meat, etc. Increase fiber intake.
Here's the thing, your doc is probably looking at the big picture here. You're 20 years old and fit AND you have hypercholesterolemia. So he's thinking what will your heart look like in 15-20 years if you don't go on a statin and the answer is you're probably going to have even more elevated LDL because you just absorb it more than those without your condition. So consider that point. You're young now so you have a chance to improve your diet, but try to take it seriously. If you do go on a statin it is quite likely you could be 50 years old with the heart of a healthy 30 year old just because you've kept the levels low. I have the same condition as you and I am opting to fix through diet for another year before I throw in the towel and get on a statin.
Also get a calcium score. The percentage of blockage is the #1 predictor of cardiac arrest.
If you listen to this vegan homosexual, OP, you deserve to suffer. This is the worst possible advice you could listen to. It's not just wrong, its maliciously wrong.
I think you misunderstood my post so apparently I need to spell it out for your dumbass. The point is to reduce foods with high animal fats. So if you're eating mainly ribeye steaks and hamburgers, replace at much as possible with leaner meat options such as chicken, fish, elk, venison. Whole milk with nonfat or 2%, etc. Will it kill you to have a filet mignon every once in a while? No. And I definitely do not recommend a vegan diet.
Yes, CAC test. I'm pretty sure the bloodwork you got only measures the calcium in your blood. The CAC and calcium may somehow be related but I'm not knowledgeable enough on topic to speak to it.
Also about statins: there are so many out there, from mild to strong, various side effects. If you do go on one that you have issues with, you still have many options.
>The point is to reduce foods with high animal fats.
Thats absolutely fricking wrong, moronic and contraindicated. You absolutely should not reduce red meat or animal fat intake.
>animal fats being responsible for anything is still the main fallback
then they get btfo by studies and then move onto saying it's some amino acid chemical in red meat that causes atherosclerosis
we're at the point where they're gonna just up and poison the cows to prove their point
The homosexuals have no point. The more I look into the lipid hypothesis the more angry I get, ong. That medgay in this thread, I'd happily murder his entire family at this point, fffff
Of course, the mainstream medgays will completely disregard the fact that there's hundreds of researchers and doctors openly talking about cholesterol not being the problem. They'll just completely ignore everything going against their ideology.
> Reduce or eliminate food with high animal fats such as butter, whole milk (try nonfat instead) red meat, etc. Increase fiber intake.
In other words: "stop making gainz and tank your natural test levels."
You’re either terribly misinformed or just fricking stupid. Hope you figure things out eventually.
>Are there foods I should be including to combat LDL (if they exist)?
get low fat greek yogurt with active cultures
there is some cholesterol but it has a net reductive effect, also probiotic sources in general if low in saturated fat and cholesterol
use EVOO
eat beans/legumes
followup also for hypercholesterolemia you should probably avoid egg yolks but egg whites reduce LDL and promote HDL
Cholesterol is regulated by genes that have been around for literally as long as we were cell fricking organisms. Because our cell membranes are made from cholesterol. And now you, dumb homosexual, come along and say "I know, I'm gonna FRICK with the basic stuff of life, assuming I know everything it does in the body, all of its billion interactions, because some moronic butthole told me its better for my HEART"
>there is literally no other negative claim made about LDL
>literally everyone with half a brain knows by now that the lipid heart hypothesis is pure, unadulterated bullshit, shear stress on artery walls and inflammation cause heart disease
>in fact, it seems to increase longevity
>the optimal level for LDL seems to be around 200-250
have a nice day homosexual
> Seems to be around 200-250
Why?
> shear stress on artery walls and inflammation cause heart disease
Yes, and per my (admittedly limited understanding) the calcification of arteries as a potential result of having elevated LDL cholesterol, right?
While this mindset would allow me to rest easier at night, it does not change the existing information that people with familial hypercholesterolemia seem to have elevated rates of CVD. This does not imply causation necessarily, but you surely can admit that this would make one worried to some extent.
I am certainly not considering a vegan diet, I have see the frail physiques it produces. However if small dietary concessions can help things, I am certainly willing to try.
Ok thank you for the clarification. I plan to get a CAC test at some point in my early twenties just to see how my arteries are doing.
>Yes, and per my (admittedly limited understanding) the calcification of arteries as a potential result of having elevated LDL cholesterol, right?
The most ridiculous blunder of basic scientific logic. So many fricking med morons do this. Read carefully, then reevaluate your priors.
>Why?
Frick if I know why, but the association is robust, with a J curve. All cause mortality goes up below total cholesterol of 215 or so, quite precipitously in fact, and somewhat increases again over 250.
Joe Rogan interviewed a really smart medical doctor who basically shat all over statins.
How much do you weigh?
Statins are 100% poison and a israelitepharma scam.
Zero evidence that they are helpful in any way and shittons that they are unnecessary and straight up harmful. Statins will give you more issues and physical pain than high cholesterol, which you can control through diet.
Don't take statins.
/thread
reduce or elminate infalmmation in diet, dont be fat.
As noted in multiple posts above, it does not appear that dietary changes are a major impact on FH.
While this is true, it is equally concerning how few recent scientific studies are peer-reviewed and reproducible. I am taking most things: studies, anecdotal evidence, etc. with equally small grains of salt. I am still young enough that I do not believe that I am in immediate danger, I just would rather get ahead of any problems and starting noticing patterns as early as possible.
While this sentiment is admirable, in my preliminary research the evidence regarding the effects of statins on heterozygous familial hypercholesterolemia for people of similar age and comorbidities to myself is fairly small. Once again, not to put research on a pedestal given what I just said above, but from what I have read it does appear that there is a bit more going on than just high LDL-C --> CHD. Therefore I think it is reasonable to try to understand as much as possible about these medicines before taking them.
What sorts of other effects are you referring to?
I'll be frank. Neither I nor anyone who actually professionally interacts with medicine or biological research gives a shit about your half baked "preliminary research." I say that because you're not talking about landmark trials that actually guide statin use like HPS, PROSPER, ALLHAT-LLT or anything of the nature but just possible underlying biochemical principles then trying to extrapolate that to real world medicine. That's not how medical science works the human body is never that easily scalable. And it's fine that thinking is how I started out too. But I'll be honest with you, you may later if you get into the field and spend ungodly amounts of time on stuff like this but currently you don't know anything just like I didn't when I was doing this same stuff 10 years ago.
You're the biggest moron by far though dont reproduce please. Besides any random Google search proving otherwise by the very nature of our shitty research environment there is evidence for everything from a dead salmon having thoughts to chocolate helping with weight loss. Go read any actual landmark trial on statin usage and not just whatever has a title that fits your current notions the best.
Statins benefits are not related to cholesterol lowering. Why does this upset you so much?
Doctors are lazy as frick but see if he'll compare your cholesterol levels to prevailing risk. I wouldnt go on statins until they are at danger range. I would also be curious of cholesterol levels in isolation without respect to co-morbidity from elevated weight etc. To put it simply -- dont take medicine you don't need.
Get a TSH lab and or check your temp, to check your thyroid. Anything above 1 uIU/L and midday temp lower than 37 C is indicative of a problem. A simple small supplement of T3 can very quickly lower cholesterol.
Do I want to convert it?
Yes pregnenolone, progesterone, testosterone are very protective for the heart. A synthetic verison of progesterone, spironolactone is used to treat heart failure.
other upregulators of steroidogenesis:
insulin and leptin (carbohydrate intake)
SERMs (enclomiphene most selective)
TSPO/peripheral benzodiazepine site agonists
Flax seed oil, niacin, fish oil. They have statin use linked to Alzheimer’s disease, just like Benadryl.
hop on this first
if it doesn't lower it enough after a couple months, ask specifically for a rosuvastatin, safest type
Plant sterols cause heart disease and death.
how many eggs a day do you guzzle?
I want my suspicions about you confirmed.
I'll look into plant sterols, have heard decent things on other forums before.
What mechanism do plant sterols employ to cause those things?
I don't think this was referring to me (OP), but if it was, I will admit my diet is not optimal regarding dietary cholesterol. I eat a fair amount of lean red meat (90%+ venison), and eat eggs fairly regularly. My biggest offence is guzzling whole milk.
Ok I enjoy probiotics and greek yogurt, will investigate these further thanks. I consume a fair bit of olive oil, but I feel like the quality here in the States is pretty shitty, so I will try to find better stuff.
Thank you for the input medbro. I should note that I am not officially diagnosed with familial hypercholesterolemia yet, but given my levels and my family history it is almost certain. I just wanted to ensure before trying these medications if there were any major adverse effects to cognition or hormonal profile. My father has been on statins for about three decades and they seem to have lowered his LDL levels, though he had a calcium scan and his arteries were fairly clogged. As noted previously, I am generally fairly skeptical of doctors in the US as many of my friends and family friends study medicine and come across as midwits who overprescribe, so I just wanted to be careful. Thanks again.
the quality of EVOO produced in the US is fine just make sure it isn't mixed with anything
>What mechanism do plant sterols employ to cause those things?
they don't do these things, they literally are just proven to lower cholesterol that is it
the guy you replied to and who I asked how many eggs he guzzled is your typical saturated fat cultist who employs dietary advice contrary to anything convential because he believes doing the opposite is always correct because le ebul gubermint
Medgay here.
Meta-analysis of the last 2 decades indicate that rosuvastatin reduces plasmatic LDL-c between 30 and 50% and you get a diminution of the relative risk approx. similar for all major cardiovascular events.
The recommandation in Europe however is that you first evaluate your SCORE (provided you are >40 yo), then depending on where you rank (weak/moderate/high/very high risk) the treatment varies.
If you're younger than 40 and have familial hypercholesterolemia then you're automatically at "high risk".
Concerning the adverse effects it's mostly known to generate myalgias, and some rare cases (<0.1%) rhabdomyolysis (cause of renal failure) but really it's so overwhelmingly prescribed since 2 decades that we would know if it was a new benfluorex.
The real current debate with statin is that:
1) various societies of cardiology keep lowering the LDL-c objectives (it was lowered again like 3 years ago in the EU) which is often very difficult to reach
2) the benefit of starting statins for people over 75 in good health (they're automatically put at "moderate risk" even if they have a good blood pressure and never smoked) if they don't manage to lower it with diet because the reduction of mortality is marginal: they have 95% of chance to die of something in the next 10-15 years anyway so reducing that by 1 or 2% doesn't make much sense.
You don't really enter these two cases and if you are really diagnosed with familial hypercholesterolemia I would definitely take the statins and see how it goes if I was you. The benefits will be exponential for you in avoiding stroke/heart attacks/mesenteric ischemia/etc... before 50.
As a rule you have a control at 3 months anyway, if there are two much side effects there are always alternatives like PCSK9 but really if you reach your objectives with the lowest dose of statin there is no reason to come to that.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32631832/
Cholesterol or LDL is not the problem its the clotting factors that sometimes come along with FH. You need to get tested for clotting factors and find out whether your FH is inherited maternally or paternally
These are worth a read as well and address the coagulation factors
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30396495/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36012410/
>statins
steal your gainz
ask your doctor for something else
My family has really bad cholesterol on both sides.
I naturally have crazy high LDL (and very high good HDL cholesterol). I have been on atorvastatin since age 22
>LDL is "bad" and HDL is "good"
Neither are bad or good. LDL is a lipid distributor. HDL is a lipid collector. Ideally, you want the same amount of both. If you have low HDL and high LDL, what you have to ask yourself is "why is your body needing to distribute lipids around your body?"
>LDL, and non-HDL cholesterol
>cholesterol
There is only one compound known as cholesterol (C27H46O). Even though LDL and HDL are colloquially referred to as "cholesterol" they're not really cholesterol. They are lipoproteins that transport lipids around the body.
>impacts of dietary choices
Dietary cholesterol does not correlated to serum lipoprotein levels.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9143438/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6024687/
Rather it's a high quantity of blood lipids. What are some causes of high quantities of blood lipids? One of them is being fat (it's not surprising that so many people in much of the western world have high cholesterol when the obesity rate is over 40%). One of them is overeating. One of them is genetics. Triglycerides and sugars also play a role. Blood lipid levels are a complex issue.
However, overeating especially with of deepfried foods cause high lipid levels in general.
cholesterol is a worthless metric to test for, vast majority of artery blockages is not dietary cholesterol and statins will kill you
don't worry about it and dose C + B3 if you're concerned
fun fact: disodium and calcium disodium EDTA were once prescribed for blockages, then it was cracked down by multiple health organizations
so hell yes i'm taking it every day of my life
ascorbic acid is also great as a diuretic if you need to lose water weight
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelation_therapy#Cardiovascular_disease
it's a big clusterfrick of regulatory board drama when people who got chelation therapy done or does it themselves already knows that it works and has no side effects
you can also read reviews
https://web.archive.org/web/20230416021517/https://www.amazon.com/Bulksupplements-EDTA-Disodium-Powder-Grams/dp/B019J68NVS#customerReviews
https://www.bulksupplements.com/products/edta-disodium-powder
https://www.bulksupplements.com/products/edta-calcium-disodium-powder
many doctors believe heart disease is inflammation
using a chelator with no side effects to remove lead, mercury, aluminum, etc. eliminates an entire category of inflammation
wikipedia also behaves similarly to other endogenous nobel prize winning drugs like vitamin c and vitamin b3
Okay interesting, it seems like EDTA and similar chelating agents are useful in treating certain things yet modern scientific consensus says otherwise. I will take a look at the studies referenced on that wikipedia page and see if there is any funny business going on. I will also read the anecdotal reviews that you listed. Thanks for the references.
The federal government has nothing to do with science, or truth
They decide what gets funded
And what gets funding is the truth as long as long as your "peers" agree with the results.
Science has been dead for a 100 years.
here's the specific thing you asked for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelation_therapy#History
I had a loved one who had a "mini-stroke" so he's concluded he needs to be on statins. My understanding is that as long as he's removed the processed inflammatory junk that he was eating it's not necessary. Any knowledgeable bros have insight on statins for people who have already had an adverse event?
Sometimes people just have high cholesterol and other blood fat because of genetic issues, so food intake changes very little.
cholesterol is the hormone precursor, statins have the potential to majorly frick shit up and homeostasis will make it worse
OK, so statins are a mild poison BUT the main scenario they've proven to be beneficial is after cardiovascular events. The statistics are worked out and people just live longer with statins after that point. That person needs to check liver enzymes and pay attention to how they feel because there are multiple options and not everyone responds the same. Statins deplete Coenzyme Q10, so supplementing that is recommended.
Thanks for sharing bro, i feel better about it now. Do you have any pointers as to picking a coq10 thats most absorbable/effective?
So there are lots of brands claiming better absorption, but that's only sometimes true and wastes your money--there are studies you can find for different products. I think it's better to just go with standard priced products and take more than the serving size. This isn't a problem because the bottles come with like 240 pills for a decent price.
Thank you bro
Longer by how long, you fricking lying homosexual? Wanna talk about that?
OP, its 4 days. The aggregate life extension from statins in people with a previous heart attack is 4 days.
The evidence that statins decrease morbidity and mortality in familial hyper cholestermia is high and wasting time reading hypothetical or unproven aspects of cholesterol won't change that fact. People here never see the forest through the trees.
>evidence that statins decrease morbidity and mortality in familial hyper cholestermia
There is none and any benefit isn't necessarily due to cholesterol lowering effects as they have other off target effects
Just dont consume seed oils and you cant get a heart attack
fasting and niacin will clear it all up, you should be doing that to begin with
niacin is a fasting enhancer
did your elevated ldl start recently?dtht2
Blast omega 3 and garlic.
>Is statin dangerous in any way
its a group of drugs that's on the market for several decades
like almost any other drug it has advantages (otherwise people wouldn't take it) and disadvantages
side effects are pretty well studied - so I'd so search for the studies instead of asking here
>consensus among actual scientists regarding cholesterol
>that LDL is "bad" and HDL is "good"?
it's not that HDL is inherently good
it's more like there is too few knowledge about the mechanisms around HDL
LDL though is pretty bad
and this is well studies and pretty much consensus
>impacts of dietary choices
LDL - diet can vastly effect levels and under certain circumstances even lift the need for medication
HDL - varies greatly and very mixed results, even in clinical trials; so currently no clear impact of known of certain diets
Are statins a drug that you can safely stop taking after reaching your cholesterol target?
If you have any calcification, is that able to be reversed?
Yes, though you need surgery to remove it, and they only do on big blood vessels.
only things that remove calcification is autophagy and disodium EDTA, and iodine + K2 if you're deficient
Going off statins will cause LDL to creep back up. Instead you can reach a cholesterol target by doing extensive lifestyle changes. Usually one or two things isn't enough but rather you need to make it central to your choices. The many small percentage effects combine to reduce cholesterol by large percentages.
Doctors are taught that patients can't reduce their LDL by more than 20% or something, therefore give them all statins for life. On one hand that's wrong because I've reduced mine by like 80% in the past and so have many people, but on the other hand average people won't actually work very hard and their numbers reflect that. Daily oatmeal, fruits and veggies, light cardio, supplementing antioxidants, fish oil, avoiding coffee, eliminate processed foods, and more will get you there.
statins increase the risk of dementia iirc
you can also lower cholesterol doing a niacin flush, and i had some success with pioglitazone too (but the edema is pretty bad)
guess what's the largest food source of iodine + K2
there's multiple studies that show vitamin C halts/prevents atherosclerosis
it probably also reverses it to a degree
Everything makes more sense once you realize 4 things:
1. Dietary fat and cholesterol don't influence your actual cholesterol levels very much if at all. It's ok to eat eggs from free range chickens.
2. Your body creates cholesterol through the conversion of sugars in your liver - fructose in particular. You should limit the amount of sugar you consume; especially fruit. Only eat what's in season in your area, and have a small amount no more than twice a week.
3. Most animals produce vitamin C naturally, but humans do not. Most animals never experience cardiovascular disease unless they are fed garbage they are not meant to eat.
4. Nothing causes atherosclerosis more effectively that consuming a lot of omega-6 fatty acids. They convert to aldehyde (embalming fluid) and stiffen your blood vessels. Stay away from seed oils like canola, grape seed, sunflower, safflower, etc. Ideally you should only really use extra virgin olive oil - but be aware that many brands are mixed with cheap seed oils... It's best to choose single origin EVOO with a robust peppery flavor and a rich color. If it's light and mild it's probably garbage. Also, avoid restaurants since they always use the cheapest (garbage) oils for their cooking.
>about 280 mg/dL, with LDL-C at 209 mg/dL, HDL-C at 60 mg/dL, and non-HDL-C at 209 mg/dL.
Lmao, my last measured total is 277, with 215 LDL, and I don't even have hf, just a result of a zero carb diet and severe, quick weight loss. Gonna have it measured again once my weight stabilises, I suspect the LDL will go down a bit, and HDL increase. But either way, not worried in the least with my other results, as in all clotting factors low-normal, negative d-dimer, homocysteine below 9, very low crp, a bunch of other shit.
Your LDL is not the problem, as another anon said, people with HF have issues with clotting factors, LDL is just a convenient scapegoat. It's not what kills some people with FH.
All that matters is HDL to triglyceride ratio. Pic rel my peak health blood results. Simple as.