*solves natty lifting*
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*solves natty lifting*
*solves natty lifting*
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>farts in your thread
>gives you tendonitis and no life outside of them gym
Jokes on you I already had no life outside of the gym and the tendonitis has healed (plus I only got it because of the powercleans I was doing)
>I don't have time for the gym
Has a bigger cope ever existed?
>not having a garage gym to workout in before your remote job
I pity the fools
Just stop being a b***h and those problems sort themselves out
PxPxLx
That's the way to go.
You NEED to rest.
>NEED
How come I'm making gains without it then?
Enjoy your injury and the ohp/bench/squat plateau.
Reminder that your gains come from rest.
PPLPPLx gives you two days of rest per body part, if you did PxPxLxx that's a whole week of rest, do you really need 6 days to recover?
Your "push" muscles are still used in "pull" movements and vice versa in some capacity, likewise for "upper" muscles and "lower" muscles unless you're exclusively doing machine isolation. Even if that weren't the case it's still too much volume for a natty and you will either injure yourself or plateu. 4 days a week is more than enough.
I did pplppl that eventually regressed into pplpp because i took weekends off to just vibe out with friends and gf. I saw good gains in the beginning but i think at some point i was severely overtrained and had plateaued around month 3 maybe. I took time off and was better for it. So i dont have any gay ass science for this but imo i think a Pxpxlxx would be kinda perfect if youre natty it would prevent overtraining allowing for more growth.
They come from lifting actually.
Because you're a beginner.
Too low frequency for a natty.
Better to do 4 or 5 days.
You train like a b***h, guaranteed
???
Black person, you train more and put more effort when you're on steroids because you can. Natties train less than roid users
The supercompensation window is also shorter for natties, and we have to use more planned overreach to get gains.
It's mostly about recovery speed, but there's more.
And the roider is moronic if he isn't doing full body 2/day just because he can.
There is a reason mike Metzger didn't look like he lifted once he stopped roids bro. You have to train with reasonably high frequency to make gains and as it turns out more than one set per week to maintain some mass.
I'm doing full body AxBxA / BxAxB as a natty DYEL. Basically 3 times a week full body.
Am I screwing myself bros?
What is A and what is B. Aba/bab is annoying. Idk how you keep track of it after a month
Basically SS with a few added accessories.
A:
Squat 3x5
OHP 3x5
Rows 3x5
Chinups 3xF
Lateral raises 3x10-12
Curls 3x10-12
B:
Squat 3x5
Deads 1x5
Bench 3x5
Chinups 3xF
Dips 3x10-12
Curls 3x10-12
>squats every day
I'm just going by what ripplebreasts told me sir..
isn't squatting and deadlifting only once a week way too low for volume? doesn't seem right to me.
Also doing aba only will mean there's a whole week between my B's. alternativng between aba -> bab seems to remedy this.
>isn't squatting and deadlifting only once a week way too low for volume? doesn't seem right to me.
>Also doing aba only will mean there's a whole week between my B's. alternativng between aba -> bab seems to remedy this.
Squatting and deadlifting don't need multiple days of volume. Too much volume on squats will give you t Rex legs and ruin your physique. Too much volume on deadlift drains your CNS and makes you weaker. 1 day for squats and deadlifts is perfect for building strength and preserving energy for upperbody workouts that develop your physique aesthetically
The only workout on your original list that is on B and not on A are
Squat
Deadlift
Bench
Pull ups
Dips
With my revisions you'll have squat and deads once a week, which is optimal
Bench will also be in A so you can even change B to incline bench for variation
Pull ups are simply a different variation of chin ups so once a week isn't really a problem
Dips, you'll be benching every work out day. Dips once a week isn't the best but it's also not the worst.
Whatever you do, I don't care if you don't follow the routine I listed (it was quickly made) just stop squatting 3 times a week at the beginning of your workout. It's soooooo bad for you and you'll regret it down the line. It's the exact reason why SS gets memed on so hard. It's too lower body focused for beginners and leads to bodies such as pic related
Too much squatting. And squat is first on the list so youre training your legs the most out of every muscle.
*THIS WILL PUT YOU IN TREX MEME MODE*
Stop this program immediately.
A should be
>OHP
>bench
>Rows
>chinups
>lat raises
>curls
A shoulder focused upper body day
B
>deads
>Squat
>bench
>pull ups
>dips
>curl
Another upper body day with a splash of legs
And then just do aba every week. No need to switch between aba and bab.
objectively correct answer. only beginners and brainlets disagree
Too bad pxpxl is actually for beginners. As they need the extra rest after doing compounds for the first time.
>resting 5-6 days per muscle group
>objectively correct answer
This makes zero sense if you're a bodybuilder
Training is more important than recovery.
That would make perfect sense though? Clearly doing nothing trumps hard work, right?
>both overtraining by construction
Been lifting for 15 years, so I have a lot more experience than I am sure 100% of IST
PPL is shit, you dont get proper shoulder/arm work on PPL, you might as well just do a bro-split with a 2nd leg day
Example
>Back
>Chest
>Legs
>Shoulders
>Arms
>Legs
>Off
Sounds reasonable, but could you undermine your claim by posting body w/ timestamp?
bost pody
Only works for frauds.
Keep telling yourself that
He's losing some of the supercompensation effect, but it's not too bad.
It's more optimized for a shitty life, than for someone focusing on his health and reading and sleeping well.
>arms day
You don't know shit.
share your wisdom
15 years is a long time. I'm sure you wouldn't mind posting your physique at this point, yeah?
power ul
hypertrophy ppl
Full body 3x a week is all I need.
You only really get 1 good exercise it of each day.
For legs, fine, squats and then bullshit.
Pull, one day has deads, the rest is secondary, but the other day has tried and pull ups, both are important and you'll be fatigued after the first one.
Same for push, you'll bench, and then be fatigued for the other exercises.
Too much legs. 2 full leg days and deadlifts? Nty unless pic related is your goal body
I do
>Upper
>Shoulders
>Legs
>Upper
>Arms/abs
That's a much better routine for aesthetics and strength
>Too much legs
Just do less volume for legs then? add shoulders or lagging muscles to fill the day out and you're golden
Or just do a better routine form the start
Do you really believe a PPL split is inferior to your routine, where you've got a whole day dedicated to shoulders?
Shoulders are a key muscle in Calisthenics and aesthetics. Ppl does not train shoulders outside of OHP if you even OHP as lots of people dont
What does exercise selection have to do with your split? You can do shoulder isolations besides of OHP regardless if you're running PPL or not. I do shoulder compounds on both Pull and Push days and isolate them on Leg days. No issues with recovery as long as you know how to program
>shoulders on leg day
well, then it isnt leg day is it?
No need to be rigid, a routine should fit your needs, not the other way round. Plus it makes sense as 2x PPL would have you training legs twice a week, so you'd keep the leg volume low, which would allow you to add isolations for lagging muscles or more shoulders
Then your just winging your program. If you have to do so many changes to your program to make it work; just get a better program
Most programs are the same anyway. Some form of chest workout, back workout, leg workout
The problem with pplppl is that it's too leg focused. So you change one of the leg days out. Well it's not pplppl anymore so you fixed the program
My personal problem with ppl variants is the lack of shoulders. So yes you can add shoulders, and still keep it ppl but imo doing chest/shoulders or even back/shoulders doesn't feel good. Shoulders need a lot of variation to really grow, and you're going to want to focus on chest on chest days leaving shoulders with less optimal energy.
Give shoulders their own day and you'll see explosive gains on them
>If you have to do so many changes to your program to make it work; just get a better program
Like creating your own based on someone else's by modifying theirs.
Yes, but your personal creation program should be relatively optimized. If you're doing legs and shoulders on the same day then that's not an optimized program
>If you're doing legs and shoulders on the same day then that's not an optimized program
Why? You can even superset them as they're antagonistic
Because you can be using your leg day as a chest/back/shoulder rest day to really get a good workout on your next upperbody or push or pull day.
When you put shoulders in your leg day, you're not really giving your upper body a break to rest and recover for your next workout. That's what I mean by optimization. Using the next day to recover from yesterday's workout.
That's why ppl was invented in the first place. To train pull muscles hard and use push and leg days to recover your next pull day. By splashing shoulder in everyday, you're just unoptimizing your recovery and ultimately your gains
It comes down to programming and what head you're targeting. Let's say you do a rear delt rows on pull, overhead press (mostly front delts) on push, and finally side delts with lateral raises on legs, it works. As I said, it just depends if you want to spread your volume like that or prefer to go hard on a single day with a dedicated arm or shoulder day, but both work
I don't want to argue with you all day about it. It's just not ideal for me. I prefer to go hard with my workouts. Doing legs with a little bit of shoulders also gets my mind out of leg day. If it works for you it works for you. After all, we are all different.
I've seen good sucess with my routine so that's why I'm hard headed about it
hey it's 'I will be lean!' Black person. im cutting hard bro I ate like a little piglet these last 6 months. Wish me luck.
Good luck king. May the cut be with you
>so you fixed the program
Yes, which is why I run it. It's still a PPL in essence. I get your point on shoulders, I just prefer peppering shoulders through the week rather than having a specific day. Valid either way really
Define upper, wouldnt you train your shoulders and arms on upper to?
Upper is usually chest/back/shoulders/arms
But chest and back are usually the focus whereas shoulders and arms are worked out as a byproduct suck as benching and pull ups. You can do a more shoulder focused upper body day with ohp and lat raises, but I feel like it takes away from chest/back so I give shoulders their own day where I do handstands, lat raises, and dumbell shoulder press
Arms get worked out on both upper days and even shoulders but I give them their own day for juicy pumps/ cooldown on my chest/back from the day before
I had a few issues with it: When I really forced progression I accumulated way too much fatigue. Also, most of those programs are designed in a way that you never hit certain muscles when they are fresh and I didn't like that at all. To fix that you either have to remove them from one day and add them to the beginning of another or add even more volume. Then you also need to prioritize one muscle group over the other if you want to train both heavy at least once, so you might have to do heavy bench followed by lighter shoulder press on one push day and then heavy shoulder press first followed by lighter chest exercises. Fine, that works, but it's still a compromise, and you also don't progress that well strengthwise. Now if you still want to stick to something similar anyway, I find a 4-5 day U/L to be better. It still has some of the same flaws, but it does not really extend each session that much and yet you gain 1-2 more rest days and you still train each muscle group at least twice a week.
I do back+chest+bis on one day and legs+shoulders+tris on the other with 1 day rest
I like my PPLxPPL. I prioritize the big lifts for me first then do everything else. Bench/OHP - Pullups/Rows -RDL/Squats
It works fine for me, plenty of volume and fatigue.
I have this same routine. But my shoulders usually give up on bench and to do ohp immediately after bench isn't working for me
Push/Pull/Roon/full body HIIT
Been doing this for about 2 years now, the overall balance works well for me.
Honestly I just skip the second leg day and do PPLPPxx with double progression on a 10-15 rep scheme.
Getting your squat numbers up is completely pointless, does nothing for your looks and physique and health-wise training legs and lower body once a week is enough. I wanna maximise gains where they matter, ie. shoulders, chest, arms.
Did this too last year was actually good but i think around month 3 or so i was overtrained and plateaued do you notice that as well or no? Just curious was thinking of returning to that routine
No overtraining for me and I've been on it for around 1.5 years. I did hit a plateau fast (think maybe 2-3 months) on all things that I started out on dumbbells with (some pushes and rows because I thought it would even out my underdeveloped left side). I think because I couldn't micro load with dumbbells and only move up in 2kg increments per side, which I think is overloading. On barbells I move up 1-1.25kg total.
Ever since I switched to barbell I haven't plateaued once on any lift.
Word thanks
>lifting more than 3 times a week as a natty
brosplit>ppl
https://desuarchive.org/fit/thread/72113083/#q72115520
is this the best 3 day brosplit?
chest+back/legs/shoulders+arms
What the frick is a PPL? Yes I'm new don't mock me
a day doing Push exercises (bench press etc)
a day doing Pull exercises (pull up etc)
a day doing Legs (squats etc)
Why not just do all of them on the same day?
fatigue and time
This anon explained it poorly
but yes its push pull legs. Essentially
Push: Chest, Delts, and Tris
Pull: Back and bis
Legs: All of legs
A lot of people do PPL twice a week (that's what I did but I switched to 5 days a week and just keep the same sequence/don't skip the split) and some do PPL once a week.
Midwit busywork. Do an upper/lower or full body but actually push yourself.
i like full body 4 times a week, i don't do any leg work besides squats and front squats. i like it, recovery is fine, making plenty of gains. i didn't like doing PPLPPL.
PPL is gay and moronic, run whatever iteration of U/L + full body or just make your own brosplit.
for me its:
PPxLxPP xLxPPxL xPPxLxP PxLxPPx etc.
thats a fact
why didnt you just write that as ppxlx
tbh just to trigger people
Frick you it worked
Literally everyone I ever saw that even remotely looks good is just doing a standard bro split
PPL crushed my CNS as a natty.
I do this now, modified texas method, AxBxAxx
A:
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Deadlift 1x5 (only on mondays)
EZ bar curls, behind the back tricep extensions, overhead plate carries
B:
Squat 2x5
OHP 3x5
Chin ups 3xF
Sometimes I add ab work in on B day, or on my rest days.
I'm also quite active outside the gym - I walk 7-10k steps per day, play 9 holes of golf 1x per week, sauna 2x per week, play tennis 1x per week, etc.
what are your lifts? starting on ppl as a beginner is moronic but doing what you are doing is not enough volume even for just intermediate lifters.
Ok fatty
185/265/385/455 (could prob dl more)
Add 2-3 warm up and 2-3 cool down sets at 50-70% of that day's working weight. If it's not enough volume for you it's because you aren't training with enough intensity
I hope to god thats in kg otherwise stfu and piss off.
>IF YOU AREN'T OHP 400 LBS DON'T EVEN COMMENT
>Bro can't even deadlift 1000 pounds? Pfft. Even little old 2020 WSM Oleksii Novikov can do that! That's like early intermediate at best.
What's the best split if you're really tall and have poor recovery?
ITT:
too little rest!
Not enough volume!
Step aside, Black folk.
Pull/legs - power
Push - power
X
Pull/legs - hypertrophy
Push - hypertrophy
X
X
Bulking 80-90 minute sessions
Cutting - 60-70 minute sessions
Alternate emphasis, e.g. on Push1 I'll do OHP for power, chest for hypertrophy, then switch for Push Day 2
*solves lifting sustainably*
That's fine, if you keep overall volume low ppl is good too.
But like, do 3 or 4 exercises, isolations included, and frick off.
After all if you're training every day there's no need to stay hours in the gym
For me it's PPxUxLx
>legs get left behind
an average natty is better off doing 2 high intensity sessions a week, anything more is a fool's errand for most people, which is always a tough pill to swallow, but it is what it is, gains will always be slow and you won't speed them up with more frequency
The technical and neurological conditioning of most gym goers is NOT prepare for the massive stress required to produce muscle growth with such little time allocation.
with this I can agree, beginners should definitely follow classic routines with ~3 sessions a week and moderate set/reps count, but once they get stronger there's usually more downsides than benefits to grinding too much and too often
when you're kind of strong and try to train 3 times a week, on average one workout will feel unproductive
and if you train 6 times a week you probably really hold yourself back and waste a frickton of time on going back and forth to a fricking gym
a fricking gym instead of spending time with your family or friends or maybe learning about the world
This is why a good high intensity trainer will have about a month long break in period for any beginner to acclimatize themselves to it while working on form and cadence. A beginner for example will make some gains from anything. After that, they should be able to better take their exercises to failure.
>most gym goers is NOT prepare for the massive stress required to produce muscle growth with such little time allocation
This simply means they never really learned how to exercise properly, that is with high intensity and just have to build up to the intensity by working on their cadence, form, and ability to actually take a set to failure. Most gym-goers and even many so-called experts are complete novices when it comes to good form and cadence.
I do PPLxULx
Natty my whole life at 27 y o. I attest to this, ran PPLx2 for like 5 years straight now, biggest natural in the gym.
big
What's wrong with upper lower?
Nothing. It's probably best for natties
Does swapping out the pull day for rock climbing work? A routine like
Monday: push
Tuesday: rest
Weds: rock climbing
Thurs: legs
Fri: push
Sat: run/swim
Sun: rock climbing
Thoughts?
You'll be doing one or the other very poorly. If you're muscling through every problem you'll stay beginner level as a climber, and technical climbing will never hit your back like an actual pull day. Even if you did nothing but muscle through juggy climbs set for beginners, youre not getting rowing movements.
Treat climbing as a sport which gets it's own time outside of hypertrophy goals.